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Reuters
Eduardo Sencion is shown in this driver's license photograph. Authorities say he opened fire with an AK-47 in Carson City before killing himself.
By Pete Williams, NBC News chief justice correspondent
The assault rifle used in the deadly shooting at a Nevada IHOP restaurant came from a Chinese company whose weapons imports have been banned since 1994, authorities say, but it’s unclear how the gunman acquired the AK-47 rifle.
Law enforcement officials say the man who fired the shots Tuesday in Carson City, Eduardo Sencion, had three weapons: two AK-47-style rifles and a handgun.
The officials say the actual shooting was committed with a Norinco Arms AK-47. Norinco, the Chinese company, is a global supplier of firearms and military weapons.
Since 1994, the United States has banned all imports of Norinco weapons into the United States (other than shotguns), but dealers were allowed to sell any stock they acquired before the import ban went into effect.
An attempt to trace where and how Sencion acquired the weapon has not come up with an answer. The dealer who originally sold the weapon has since gone out of business, which complicates the tracing effort.
Nevada IHOP shooter was 'gentle, kind man'
The gun could have been legally purchased. It could have been imported before the Norinco ban. The Clinton-era assault weapons ban applied to weapons like it, but the law expired in 2004. When Barack Obama first came into office, the administration suggested it would ask Congress to reimpose the ban, but that idea was quickly abandoned.
Officials say Sencion had two other weapons with him, apparently in the van he drove to the restaurant — a handgun and a second AK-47. The other AK-47 was a Romarm Cugir, made by a Romanian weapons company. The handgun was a Colt .38 revolver.
Four people are dead after a gunman opened fire on customers eating at an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, Nev. NBC's Kristen Dahlgren reports.
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Who cares where the gun came from. People kill, guns are just a tool. Gun control only works in absolute dictatorships in anything less they will always still be avaialble to those who want them badly enough. Conversely any government with sufficiently widespread availabilty (the majority of households) will never become a dictatorship - thus the 2nd amendment. Ergo where the gun came from and even what type it was matter little. Prevention consists of economic and social conditions denying motivation for most crimes and educationg people to respect life - both their own and others in a balanced way. Currently our society has to much respect for self and not enough to others, to much tolerance from parents and peers for disrespect of others and to much economic hardship. Fix these problems and don't worry about where the guns come from as that issue will then fade away.
I am going to buy a gun myself, just in case those tea party people start rioting in my neighborhood.
Doesn't matter where that gun came from. I have seen American made AK-47 rifles on sale at Gander Mt. over and over. I would prefer one of the US made AK's over the Chinese MAK90 version any day. I have a MAK90/AK47 that I bought from a gun store in the early 90's and have not even fired it yet, it is still in the box. The American built ones were not available then as far as I know. If the US made one was available I would have bought it. I buy American as much as possible. As far as this guy that killed these people: We will always have nut cases that kill others, that is just the way it is.
Fixing the social/economic issues? Won't happen - ever, and even if things were "better", the amount of gun violence would stay constant. So don't worry, another story like this one is just around the corner, and gun nuts will pound their chests in a cry of freedom that matters more than the never-ending pile of innocent bodies piling up when it happens. I'm really sick of these arguments that proclaim "if everyone was armed, then this wouldn't happened" (worked in the wild west - right?), and "guns don't kill, people do." The simple fact is that if you had a restaurant (or college campus) and no guns were allowed because of some horrible law, then how many people would be killed if a nut-case showed up? One, two maybe, maybe none? How many if guns were (as they are) in wide circulation? 5-50 murders? Believe or not, I don't feel "free" in this society that allows this inexcusable murder to go on and nothing but speeches and weak laws are offered. I don't feel free knowing some A-- hole who just got a gun through dealers who don't give a c---, gun shows, or even the ATF can take out citizens for sport on any given day. When will this country realize that living this way is not FREE? You can not be free with the threat of random and now very common shootings taking place. Gun lovers have a problem with that, and refuse to accept that living in a US civilian sponsored terrorist state is not freedom.
Does not matter where the gun came from! Criminals love gun control, that way they are the only ones with guns! You can't rid society of guns, WILL NEVER HAPPEN! This is a perfect example for my liberal friend at work who tells me I don't need a gun to defend my home or family. he says that's what the police are for! Sorry... Police can't be every where at once! at least if someone tries to break into my home my wife has a fighting chance. feel free to rollover and die if you like, your CHOICE!
Thank you. Nicely said. My AK is hanging on the wall never fired. Its a piece of art to me but one day i may fire it. A gun in hand is better than a cop on the phone.
Don Clark-4047103, I guess you've never heard of the middle-east where up until recently most countries were run by dictatorships despite the abundance of weaponry. The availability of guns should have prevented these countries from becoming dictatorships in the first place, no?
1 or 2 people killed in VA tech?
I suppose I missed out on the wild west. Didn't realize the whole thing was brought about by a lack of gun control. Had nothing to do with the lack of laws in general, or law enforcement, or resources.
I guess if we ban guns then absolutely nobody would have one and we'd be living in utopia. Certain drugs were made illegal, and ever since then, not one single person has ever been caught with narcotics. Because everyone obeys the law. There is no black market.
Gun control also seems to work fine in Europe, which don't seem to be turning into dictatorships. In fact, if you look at most of the world, comparing Europe and Africa, the safest countries are the ones with the least guns. In England, for example, even most of the cops don't carry guns. The most dangerous countries are the banana republics - which have lots and lots of guns.
But don't let the facts get in the way, huh?
England has one of the highest crime stats and guns are prohibited, higher the than the US. Where guns are illegal. besides the criminal will always be able to find a gun. There is nothing wrong with owning a weapon as long as you own the responsibility of owning a gun. Ownership is the key word today boys and girls
Last time I checked, most countries that restrict gun use, were not "abusive dictatorships" They do have massively lower rates of homicide though, specifically from firearms. You're right. Guns don't kill people. They just make it easy to kill lots of them very quickly.
There is no debating that.
yak and byron are dimwits--lets outlaw cars too since they kill people every day on the highways, and airplanes because they sometimes crash, and poisonous snakes since they can bite you, and cancer too--yea lets ban cancer.
Tomvet -- England's murder rate is 1.28 per 100,000, versus 5.0 for the U.S. That is more relevant to the discussion on guns than the crime rate.
Hoffa, Obama, Biden and the rest of them are to blame for the killings at IHOP. Hope they are happy now..he "took them out!"
fiveton1 is to blame for the killing at the IHOP
knightrider-2370569
"I am going to buy a gun myself, just in case those tea party people start rioting in my neighborhood."
A typical response from a brain washed liberal. This is not about parties at all. This is about people's ability to protect themselves. and you probably should buy a gun, because the way this country is going, it is only a matter of time before the upstanding citizen's say we have had enough. And you're playing catch up because conservatives believe in gun rights.
If you really think banning guns will make you safe, then you have never had true fear for your life. And in the split second it takes for someone you take yours away, the last think you will be thinking is how the bad guy got the gun. I look at guns as making it a fair fight. That is what you liberals do not understand and never will. When you have things given to you all the time, you do not understand that some people take pride in earning for themselves and are willing to possibly meet their own end to defend their property/ family/ life. I never want to use mine, but at the same time, don't give me a reason. Just because we (normal law abiding citizens) have them does not mean we are looking for ways to use them. I know this won't make any difference to the libs because you are too far gone to think otherwise. Maybe come down to New Orleans and we can have this conversation some more...
Esteban- Funny you should mention owning a resturant that doesn't let guns inside. You might remember a massacre in Kileen, Texas known as the "Lubby's Massacre". It's an example of gun restrictive laws costing lives. A lady, Suzanna Gratia (later testified to Congress) left her handgun in her car because at the time Texas it could have been a felony to have had her pistol in her purse. Well, a nut drove into the resturant and systematically executed everyone in the resturant, except a few whom escaped during the rampaige. She would have had a shot at the perp. but she attempted to comply with the law and left it in her car. During her testimony she noted that she would have much rathered get a felony from a bad law than watch her family and others be executed that day. She could have saved lives by having it.
You might like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis&feature=related
Gun statistics show that in places where people are more likely to be armed are less likely to have idiots attempting to rob civilians. I wonder why..... Maybe they don't like the idea of getting hurt themselves.
Or New Mexico..., I would be happy to show knightrider-2370569 what reality is like ... that is of course once he gets off that XBOX of his and steps outside...
Or New Mexico..., I would be happy to show knightrider-2370569 what reality is like ... that is of course once he gets off that XBOX of his and steps outside...
What's all the tough talk and dissing of China about constantly? Is this any way to treat your CREDITORS?
Joey Lester: Funny, I don't recall advocating banning firearms. You know, you right wingers are so rabid you can't even read, let alone put anything in context.
What I did do was state some obvious facts. You disagree? Prove I'm wrong. Oh, yeah, you can't. Sorry, I know guys like you don't like facts.
And also, the things you listed (cars, etc.) aren't designed to be weapons, so how does that reference make any sense?
Fail Joey. Fail.
Esteban #1.3, how many criminals have you ever heard of or known that obeyed the law? Ban guns and watch the popularity of bombs go up. People who want to kill innocent people for no rational reason will always find a way.
Wait....your GUN is a piece of ART?!?
How sad.
Oh my, a cheap Chinese knock-off again. The only real AK-47s come from Izhevsk, Russia. Well, the Romanian one may - or may not necessarily - be a legally licensed copy, but still not the real thing.
wonder if they're going to trace the bullet's back to waffle house...
This is nothing more than some lame brain's sick, twisted idea of an updated version of "Where's Waldo"... Pointless.
Byron... go to gunfacts.info and educate YOURSELF on the FACTS! I love when lefty/anti's try to talk about facts, without stating ANY or using any sources of said "facts"!!!
If you don't want to own a gun, that's your decision...just don't trample others rights because you don't believe in them.
"By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia', the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms', our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important."
-Senator John F. Kennedy, April 1960
JFK, the last Democrat that actually understood what this country was about.
Yeah, they are only over run by Muslim fanatics and terrorists. I'll take my chances with my loaded weapons. Thanks.
Wait a minute Mike. You just wrote the definition of "lefty/anti's".
Japan is not a dictatorship yet have excellent gun control. The illusion of God Given Right guaranteed under the Constitution will continue to bury this country and others who follow in these footsteps.
Last time I checked Arizon has ample number of guns floating around and not a single one was fired at Jared Loughner. In Ohio a guy wiped out two entire families which probably had ample number of guns between them, 'cause you can't think of pulling them out when someone's shot you in your head. In Carson the neighboring BBQ restaurant owner had a gun but he did not fire his weapon 'cause he was sh_— scared of the "automatic" AK47. I can go on and on and it just seems like only the nut cases have the balls to fire their weapons when needed and they are the ones who would be prevented/less likely from getting guns if the laws did not allow it.
I work in security and had to draw my weapon only once in 16 years and that was one time more than I wanted to, but it did cause the perp to flee and my have saved my life. Have all to opinions you want to about it, your 1st amendment right, but don't try to take away my 2nd amendment right.
Pick up a copy of American Rifleman and you will see many articles of people using a firearm to defend themselves or others. These stories just don't make mainstream media because they are not sensational enough, the random killings by lunatics is though.
Oh and as to Arizona, there were guns present but no one had a clear shot at this nut job so they did the responsible thing and held their fire to avoid shooting innocents. That was excellent use of fatal force, if you can't safely engage your target you don't. Any person with military/police/armed security experience knows that.
Over 20,000 Americans are killed every year on the highways. Shall we ban cars? Shall we trace the origin of the cars that killed people to the name of manufacturers? Is it GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Hyundai, Kia, Subaru, BMW or Mercedes? What purpose is served by tracing the origin of the cars involved in a fatality?
It's also irrelevant to identify which nation manufactured the AK47 used in the deadly shooting. Unless, it is made in China because that is fodder for anti-Chinese propaganda.
Back in the late '30s, the Nazi regime traced every misfortune or social ills back to the Jews, Gypsy, or undesirable races. Apparently, during this Great Recession America is also looking for scape goats.
He had to use a gun made in china because all the USA made assault weapons are in mexico.
I live near the IHOP where the killings took place and I believe that this incident proves that no matter where one lives, one must be open minded enough to understand that there is a possible threat of violence in their neighborhood. I know some of you will disagree with me, but if you read the local news papers, listen to the news on televison or have a scanner you will hear of people getting killed daily in their local neighborhoods, towns or cities. The means in which people tragically die does not only rest with guns does it? So lets all agree to disagree that the loss of life is tragic no matter how it is lost. So with that said, here are some of my personal observations.
1. Lots of you folks want to have stricter gun laws which would take away all the guns in the united states. Remember, "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
2. Lots of you folks want to keep your guns and not have tighter gun laws. There must be some type of regulations or our children will be able to walk into any gun store and purchase one.
3. I do not hear of any of you complaining that we need to stop selling alcohol because of all the people who die in the world because of drunk drivers. Of course we have laws that say people under the age of 21 cannot buy alcohol but yet there are businesses being fined every day for selling to underage persons. Oh, but you guys are all now saying that alcohol is not a gun. Well, think about it, put into the right persons hand (or system) the alcohol impares the person enough to think he/she can go out and get drunk and drive. Give me a break.
4. I have also heard a few of you guys/gals say that if parents will get involved in their childrens lives, and I do mean get totally involved in their lives we as a country could solve many of our own problems and keep our government out of our lives and maybe even let us have a true voice in our homes, towns, cities, states and countries direction. Right now many parents are afraid to punish their children the old fashion way using corpal punishment (Spanking) because of our liberal laws which will most definitely at the least allow for the beginning of an investigation into your parenting ability. Also, your integrity will come into question when this occurs. I was raised in the era where spanking was used as a means to correct behavior as were many other people and I can honestly say thank you to my mother and father for using that type of punishment because as I look back, sweet talk, counseling and other theraputic means of correcting behavior would not have worked for me, just like it has been proven not to work in many cases today. Maybe if our government would let us raise our children like our parents raised us, they may find that this would solve many social issues such as juvenile delinquency.
5. But I also have read from some of the more liberal people in here, that they believe that we as Americans should be able to do what we want, when we want, how we want and should not have to worry about the consequences of our actions. If you truly believe that then you may want to move to fairly land or take your family to IHOP and see how you feel the next time someone with an AK47 walks in and opens fire. Your opinion may change if some of your family members are laying next to you on the floor, eyes wide open and not breathing because some idiot off the street came and opened fire, killing them, even though they did not know them.
Right now our prayers and thoughts should be about the families of all the people who have lost their lives tragically because someone did not use good ole common sense in dealing with their own personal problems. We as a community, state and nation should come up with solutions on how to prevent these issues from happening in the future. I can tell you that taking away all the guns will not stop these issues from happening in the future, but I can also tell you that turning a deaf ear to the situation will not solve the problems either. So, come on Americans. Think, teach your children right from wrong, hold them accountable for their decisions and actions and lets work together to keep each other safe.
I am not going to take sides in this debate. All I know is that our founding fathers fought and died for us to have the freedoms we enjoy today. And as a free American, I own my own guns and I have taught all of my children how to use them safely. Some of my children are also responsible gun owners and two of our children are in the United States Military. Together we stand to defend our freedoms and together we stand to say, "America is the best country in the world. We have our issues, but we as American's stand united together and will defend our freedoms to the very end. We are a God fearing country and believe that there is nothing we cannot accomplish as one nation and with God's help, we will achieve our endless goal of Freedom."
May God bless you an GOD BLess America. And if I pissed off you Athiest's by using the word "GOD" in my comment, then my past military service to this great nation allows you the right to be pissed off. I fought and defended our country and will do so again just so you have the freedome to bitch.
James
Well stated, James
Hey Esteban- If you don't feel safe hear because it is legal for Americans to own legally obtained guns, move to a country where guns are illegal. They are illegal in Russia, I'm sure you could find yourself a nice, safe, crime free neighborhood to live in. By the way, their murder rate is as high as ours. Their weapon of choice- an ice axe. After a couple of swings, you'll be begging them to shoot you.
I'll just throw a quote:
Since 1991, despite the rise in gun ownership, violent crime is down 43% and murder is down 49%. How does that gel with your theory that guns create violence, eh Esteban? Even our own think-tanks and government agencies feel that gun-control laws have little effect on overall violent crime:
A reference was made to the wild west above. The west was not that wild as far as gun play was concerned. Those who believe that probably get their western history from Clint Eastwood spagetti westerns and Sam Peckenpaw westerns. In fact the pricvately owned firearms in the west were generaly put to good use one example is Coffeville Kansas. The Dalton gang decided to raid Coffeville and rob the two banks. The private citizens of coffeeville took their PRIVATELY OWNED firearms and shot the gang to pieces. Only one of the gang members survived (Emmit Dalton) and he had multiple wounds.
"The Clinton-era assault weapons ban applied to weapons like it, but the law expired in 2004."
It was originally reported that he used a FULLY-AUTOMATIC AK-47. That type of gun is STILL illegal/banned. It has nothing to do with the expiration of the 'assault weapon' ban. Fully auto guns are still not legal or possible to purchase. Just want to make sure that is clear.
Not entirely true, Chris. A fully automatic weapon is indeed legal in the United States, in most states, provided you have the NFA/Class III license, and the weapon is in compliance with the applicable law. All automatic weapons must be pre-1986, and have been registered with the ATF. It is possible to own a fully automatic AK, or any other weapon manufactured and registered before 1986.
You are right Matt. I don't understand why so many people are confused about this.
He was a 'gentle, kind man' who had 2 AK-47s.
True but do you realize how hard and expensive it is to get a NFA/class 3? Pretty much out of bounds for any normal folks and then you have to shell out tens of thousands for a full auto.
...and it should be further understood that the semi-automatic Norinco MAK-90 (AK-47 replica) circa 1994, can EASILY be modified to fully automatic fire.
I can 99.99% guarantee this weapon was never linked with a class 3 license because it didn't need one.
The guy was not a US citizen. It was not a legal gun in the US period. It was a semi(not) automatic weapon.
This guy could have driven it across the border from Mexico for all we know.
so do semi automatics not kill people, only the full automatic ones do?
I dont understand, why didn't he just go with a musket - single load?
guns are guns right?
Actually, you don't need a license but you must pay a $200 transfer tax and, as Matt-3468366 stated, the weapon must be registered and the BATF&E must approve the transfer.
LP - so how does a non-us citizen get a US passport?
go ahead and google it, learning something new every day can be fun.
This is not a gun provided for the JD in the fast and furious operation by this administration?
This is not about banning guns. This is about guns in the wrong people period.
Sam 1.4 = Expensive? The class 3 license is about the price of the average handgun. Sad that you think that a few hundred dollars is beyond the reach of US Citizens.
Also a semi can be converted to fully automatic by someone with a manufacturers' license, and the proper BATFE licensing paperwork, which is simple.
WIKI
The U.S. passport issued to non-citizen nationals contains the endorsement code 9 which states: "THE BEARER IS A UNITED STATES NATIONAL AND NOT A UNITED STATES CITIZEN." on the annotations page.[28]
Non-citizen U.S. nationals may reside and work in the United States without restrictions, and may apply for citizenship under the same rules as resident aliens. Like resident aliens, they are not presently allowed by any U.S. state to vote in federal or state elections, although there is no constitutional prohibition against them doing so.
Matt 2.1
You should have also mentioned that a legally registered fully automatic weapon has never ever been involved in a crime.
Also, as a non-US citizen, i'm not at all certain he could have legally acquired a gun. I could be wrong.
The class III license entails some pretty detailed background checks and is not as easy as going to walmart and buying a remington 700, and it involves expenses, record keeping, access to checks by batf, etc. Otherwise, hell, everyone I know would have one. If getting a manufacturers license and proper batf licensing was that easy, wouldn't all of us right wing thug rednecks, as quite a few posters so eloquently refer to us as, have one? But I know, it's us right wing gun nuts who have Christianity as our religion who are the cause of all that ails this country.
maybe the atf is responsible for the guy getting these guns. they do like to make sure criminals have the weapons they need (like the drug cartels)
B-Cat,
Technically it can be reasonably easy to get a Class 3. However, reality is different. If getting a Class 3 license and purchasing a fully automatic weapon is sooooo easy why don't a bunch of people do it already. Well, it's not that easy. A person can hire a firm or firearms savvy lawyer to help, but it ain't a walk in the park. There are also restrictions on where such a firearm can be used and how it is transported. Just dealing with state and local guns laws can be daunting.
Wake--I have 4 AKs--i have never killed anyone--next
Sam - Not really sure how many "normal" folks need a fully automatic AK-47.
A full auto AK47, M16 and the like are at least $13,000- $16,000 with a $200 stamp and a back ground check after about a 3 to 4 month delay. The cheapest is a Mac 10 or 11 at about $3,000. If you purchase them through a dealer in your state they are easier to transfer. Out of state you have to transfer them to a dealer in your state first. It takes more time and may cost more. Dealer can charge about $175.00 in some areas for the paperwork. Having a Chief of police or Sheriff, or Federal Judge willing to sign the paperwork can be a chore. The Police have to finger print your and fill out duplicate applications. Some will say they don't have to, but they are suppose to sign off if you pass the background check. They make the excuse they will be held liable if you do something wrong with the weapon, but lawsuits have shown they can not be held liable, so they have no real concern. This process goes for short barreled rifles and suppressed rifles and pistols also. All legal through the NFA laws.
Someone that is going to kill a lot of people will not be going to go through the system. They may have smuggled the weapon in from Mexico or may have been able to convert if from Semi auto. No matter which, as this guy was bent on killing, he would have used any means. He just chose to have a set of firearms. A bomb would have been just as effective and much easier to manufacture. He was apparently ready to die for his actions.
Illinios is now the only state to have no concealed weapon carry laws. So these guys if armed may have been able to prevent this tragedy. They were soldiers who should be familar with firearms and know how to treat a threat such as this guy.
It is weird how gun laws being first made by Southern Democrats to prevent the freed black slaves from owning firearms has turned into the present Progressive Democrats wanting laws to prevent anyone from owning a firearm. Seem there is a method to their madness. They want control. It wasn't enough to ban the blacks from owning firearms, now they want all persons controlled. The 2nd Amendment prevents them from having control of our lives. Seems "some Animals are more equal than others".
It is also weird how Margret Sanger the founder of Planned Parenthood said:
“We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population….”
Planned Parenthood is the Democratic party's favorite organization along with all the gun control organizations. Anyone wonder why the blacks vote Democrat? Martin Luther King is rolling over in his grave.
People like this guy just helps their cause.
joemike:
There are full auto shoots throughout the US. They are a "blast" to shoot. (Pun intended).
Also in some areas, you can pay to shoot a variety of full autos. Surprisingly, the most sucessful of these sites have a great many Japanese customers. They can not own firearms, so when they come to the US on vacation, they go where they can rent some. If you are incorporated (a Corporation), you can own as many full autos as you want, without going through the NFA rules.
You can go right up to Nevada and shoot a plethora of automatics. All legal, and lots of fun!! It's not cheap entertainment, though. Like I said, lots of fun. Those old refridgerators don't stand a chance.......
DelFairchild - guess I need to get out more!
Who gives a rat's ass about the FA conversation. It wasn't a FA weapon yet did the job quite nicely. This was a orginary person who decided to fall off the deep edge. The comments on criminals are also baseless. This wasn't a criminal. This was an everyday guy for whatever reason decided to commit these murders.
"And gun nuts, because everything to them is a joke until their toys are threatened. Like a nine year old." ~Sean-336944
Toys? Uh no, Sean...try private property. The reason we get so angry and defensive, is because you and a lot of the pro gun control crowd are acting like this is our fault!! We didn't do anything, none of us pulled the trigger, we are not responsible for what happened. It was not the NRA, it was not us, it was not the gun. If you really feel like you need to blame someone, blame the person who started shooting people. You wanna talk about who's acting like "a nine year old"...guess who it is? You!
Put the blame where the blame is due, and start acting like f**king adults.
Anti gun people are generally some of the most uninformed ignorant people I have ever dealt with. I guess If a drunk driver kills some one with a car you blame the car right??? As a small manufacturer of Ak rifles I ask you: Do Flies Cause Garbage? Be reasonable Get to the REAL root of the problem. Vote pro gun and buy American a good way to start real CHANGE.
Actually one legally registered full auto weapon has been used in a crime. It was used by a police officer and was a department owned gun. But it is true no privately owned full auto weapons have been used in a crime.
The last I heard any legal resident of the US can purchase a firearm. The same rules apply to all whether a citizen or legal resident allian. Anyone here illegaly cannot legaly purchase a gun however.
Maybe he got it from the ATF
Commie guns and the irony
American warhawks and assult weapon gun lovers just love AK 47s but the irony is that they are supporting communist regimes that which they truly hate. Makes sense huh?
Tell me your not wearing anything made in china?
Quite a few AK-47s are made in the US, so we are keeping american jobs.. Also who buys chinese made weapons? They are crap and stocks have splinters..
Like US government bonds?
Ak-47 is a design and is manufactured all over the world, including the US. Here's a handy link to Ak-47 manufacturers here in the states, for reference:
http://www.ak-47.us/AK47_Manufacturers.php
The reason AKs are so popular is because they are extremely rugged and low-maintenance, easy to use too. Here's a youtube clip from the Military Channel's "Top 10" show, where the AK took top honors in the rifle category:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvrG4T2K4sE
The experts here give you an idea of why the rifle is such a fantastic design. Not that that has anything to do with the article at hand, per se. This guy, with a history of mental illness, should never have had the rifle to begin with.
My Ak was made in Russia by izhmash, imported into the us legally. Sold at a gun store....LEGALLY. Try doing some homework.
As much sense as you shopping at Wal-Mart.
We whould immediately ban all Chinese imports. They tried to put lead into our children's toys now they're hawking automatic weapons. Forget gun bans, ban Chinese imports!
Forget banning Chinese imports, ban Chinese people!
Well that weapon was hawked a while ago so I don't think that should be the reason but I would be on board with banning all business with China.
No, we should immediately incarcerate all males in the US. First they started slavery, then they polluted the air and water now they started killing people. Forget Chinese imports, incarcerate American males!
Women too, and who said just Americans? All nationalitiess have some members that have done something wrong to someone else, just lock up the entire population of the planet!
Dont forget about all the women and children american males have raped.
Christian nation my arse.
Yes. American males are the only people guilty of slavery, pollution and murder.
I suppose your solution would appear viable up until the point the solely female society came to the realization that it would die out due to the inability to procreate. Sperm donations would only go so far and eventually, the dramatic increase in the risk of accidental incest would result in increasingly more deformed children until the earth is populated by a race of mutants. -gasp- I think I've stumbled upon the REAL cause of the fated zombie apocalypse! And if that isn't the perfect plot to a low-budget "end of the world, zombie infestation" movie then I don't know what is. But seriously, your sarcasm was humorous. Mildly humorous but humorous all the same.
Well said, Milicia Ethredge!
Melissa Etheridge? Where!?!?!?! I'd like her autogra... Oh wait, no I wouldn't.
That'll never work. An hour later, you'll want to ban them again....
Um do your history, Europeans had slaves to, dating back to the time of Christ (Remember the Egyptian enslavement of the Jews?) And how about all those colonists to the good old USA that were "Indentured Servants" (another name for slave)
Gun control advocacy arguments commencing in 3... 2... 1...
The gun was already banned... since 1994. Doesn't seem like the gun control law helped much in this case. Apparently people who want to go out and commit a violent crime don't really care if their weapon of choice is banned or not.
No, we gun-control advocates have pretty much given up on discussion in public forums. Gun control is right up there with global warming as a topic that turns the Conservative brain from pounded sand to concrete, or maybe from cottage cheese to curds and whey.
We might ask why anybody needs an AK-47--I mean aside from the obvious: "Because I'm going to the IHOP, that's why!" But are there any other reasons?
The ban in assault weapon sales EXPIRED in 2004....
Sokrates, maybe you don't see the legitimacy of owning a firearm, but I fully believe that the 2nd amendment is by far the most important, because it enables "we the people" to defend all other rights guaranteed us in the Constitution. What matter to you is it, if a person wants to own, operate, and maintain a firearm in compliance with all applicable laws?
Don't even try to make the "violence" increase argument. The UK has one of the lowest gun ownership rates in the world, and their intentional homicide rate is twice that of Switzerland, a country with one of the highest ownership rates. I'm not saying it's a causative relationship, but look at the differences in demographics and immigration policy.
Matt - I think its funny that you think the 2nd Amendment is by far the most important, but dont seem to quite understand the INTENT of that amendment - not what it means in our day and age, but what it meant THEN - and most importantly, what they hoped to achieve through its existence.
It's clear that you think it meant YOU PERSONALLY have the right to carry a gun on your hip as you wish, and how that helps YOU defend all other rights guaranteed in the constitution...you've not made that clear.
I disagree with that view - i think MILITIA meant, well...MILITIA, a state-by-state armed force that could rival our federal military. Not take care of foreign invaders (though no doubt the Militia's would help) and not meant to fight other americans who disagree with their elected officials.
But Militia - intended to protect our nation and our people from TYRANNY.
In my opinion, a bunch of NRA members with a cache full of guns - doesnt constitute WELL ARMED.
Not against our military's drones...or tanks...or missiles.
ARMS - dont mean just guns.
When our fore fathers wrote up that document, they couldnt have dreamed what types of arms govts would have now...but they knew that the people, needed to have something that rivaled it on their side if they stood a chance.
You'll notice, those rebels in Libya wouldnt have stood a chance if not for NATO drones doing the bulk of the intial damage.
I guess, we're content to hope like heck that some other nation can fight with us, the people, against our govt should that day ever come (and it will come, history guarantee's this).
Why don't you ask Mikhail Timofeyevich Kalashnikov? He designed the Ak-47.
Sokrates: The real reason is the one no one wants to talk about... after throwing off the chains of British oppression, our founding fathers wanted to be sure future citizenry would always have access to weapons suited to toppling the inevitable tyrant. Hence, the second amendment.
I understand this is embarrassing and even insulting to many progressives who wish for an even larger and more active government. For anyone to think it necessary to rise up against our wise and benevolent ruling elite is unthinkable. But consider this..
The armed population of the US is by far the largest armed force in the world. All tyrants fear this and is one of the reasons no one has taken on modern America in a ground war. As a highly placed Japanese officer once said to explain his reluctance to a ground war with us (and I paraphrase); "There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass". The Swiss have had similar success.
That's it in a nutshell: the second amendment is not about duck hunting, sport shooting or even personal self defense. The militia spoken of at the time this amendment was crafted was anyone able to field a weapon, there was no national guard at the time. Each citizen was expected to a) have a weapon, b) be skilled in its use and c) come when theres trouble.
Since history repeats until you learn the lesson, US citizens in good standing have a right (and some may say an obligation) to own firearms suitable to the task of defeating a future tyrant.
This freedom comes at a cost since madmen and criminals can misuse weapons. The alternative is our children one day being forced to learn a foreign language and live as slaves. Some may find this reasoning outdated and preposterous, but like I said, history repeats until you learn the lesson.
well said!!!
Jessica: First of all this guy that killed these people was a nut job. You can't fully protect yourself from a nut job.
Every state has a 2nd Amendment like law that allows freedom of owning firearms. Every state but Ill. has a Right to Concealed Carry Law on the books and it is reciprocal in most states. Meaning if you have a CC card from one state, you can carry in another. Every person over a designated age is in the Militia. They can even be commandeered by the local Sheriff into a posse commitatus to go out and take down the bad guys. The militia and posse must supply their own firearms.
To own firearms equal to the Federal Gov't is a right that was taken from the people by the Southern Democrats when the slaves were first freed. They are the ones to first pass firearms laws.
To have the means to fight the Federal Gov't is the very essence of the 2nd Amendment like you suggest, but that means you first have to be able to own firearms for which you can take the necessary weapons from the Federal Troops. If you remember from you history books, the first item on everyone's agenda in the Revolutionary War was to break into an armory somewhere and procure the weapons needed. That meant cannons and same caliber flint locks with bayonets. Today it may mean rockets or tanks.
My 6th Great Grandfather was a Sheriff at Morris Town, NJ who died at the age of around 80 years from Small pox when Gen. Washington lost New York and went to Morris Town to reassemble his troops. His wife also died at the same time from Small pox. His grandchildren fought in the war against the British. My ancestor came to this country and settled in Conn. in the 1600s for freedom of Religion and to prosper financially. I would like to think we still have today what they all fought so hard for back then.
Progressive Democrats would take that all away. They believe they are just a little bit "more equal than others".
So, are you advocating that the average citizen have access to nuclear weapons?
Nope. Nobody is saying that Fred. If nuclear weapons are used, it'll be a draw. Nobody wins.
God, I hate it when people play stupid.
JFK, not exactly a founding father, but definitely one of our best presidents. Here is his take on this..
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."
-John F. Kennedy
"By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia', the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms', our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important."
-Senator John F. Kennedy, April 1960
Jessica, you really need to study our countries history a little better before you make blanket statements about your perception of what constitutes a "militia" and what our founding fathers envisioned that to be.
In my opinion, a bunch of NRA members with a cache full of guns - doesnt constitute WELL ARMED.
Not against our military's drones...or tanks...or missiles.
ARMS - dont mean just guns.
When our fore fathers wrote up that document, they couldnt have dreamed what types of arms govts would have now...but they knew that the people, needed to have something that rivaled it on their side if they stood a chance.
You'll notice, those rebels in Libya wouldnt have stood a chance if not for NATO drones doing the bulk of the intial damage.
I guess, we're content to hope like heck that some other nation can fight with us, the people, against our govt should that day ever come (and it will come, history guarantee's this).
Remember the movie "StoneGarden"? Remember a place called Southeast Asia or Vietnam? How did we get our butts kicked there, we certainly had more and better weapons. In that movie a young soldier asked how could we loose when the Vietnamese were using stones and bows and arrows against helicopter gunships? The response from the Sgt Major was how could we possibly win when the enemy was willing to take on helicopter gunships with stones and bows and arrows. I have always believed that the intent of the second amendment was to give the people a fighting chance in the event they felt justified in forcibly removing a tyranical government from power.
The movie was "Gardens of Stone"
Stone and Arrows against gunships? Hello Mcfly! That's a movie. The Vietnamese were armed by the Soviets and Chinese. The idiot politicians were afraid to attack North Vietnam on the ground in fear of China getting involved like they did in Korea. Johnson halted bombing against the north for a couple years which allowed them to keep the arms flowing into the South. Had we been allowed to attack the North, it would have been game over in a matter of months. Vietnam was what happens when politicians run a war. But then again, it was never declared a "war", it was a "police action".
By the looks of his face, that shooter needed to get on the treadmill and on a diet.
prisons have those.
......... i think he got a bad taco
Maybe he ate too too much at the IHOP?
It is the INTERNATIONAL House of Pancakes (& Flakes), right?
Ever considered a garage sale?
Is this another case of Hispanic's bringing guns into the United States? We all know the authorities in Mexico have been finding AK-47's and we also know some of the guns from Fast and Furious are ending up in places like Atlanta, New Jersey and even Detroit. What is our government doing to stop the flow of guns from Mexico?
You are severely confused. The flow of guns goes from here to Mexico not the other way around... Didn't you hear about that whole ATF scandal where they basically armed the cartels?
Same thing they're doing to stop the flow of illegals from Mexico. . . Nothing. Well, no, that's not entirely true. They aren't exactly doing "nothing." They're also obstructing the effors of individual States to stop the flow of illegals into individual States.
maybe we should wait for a republican to become president, im sure they'll do something about these problems that only ever existed under Obama.
right?
Jessica, maybe they might. Sure seems like the current government isn't doing much, and before you call me an Obama hater, I mean ALL branches of the government.
Thank God it wasn't an American made weapon....
No seriously WTF difference does it make where it was manufactured? Nobody should have these weapons, civilian or government but so long as governments do I support a person's right to own one.
Gun rights liberals FTW!
What does any private citizen need with an AK47. It serves no purpose but to kill multiple times in fast succession. Stop compromising our safety for such selfish motives.
If Chinese imports were banned overnight America would cease to exist in about 90 days or so . If China wanted it's loans repaid overnight America would cease to exist overnight . Besides the Ak quality was pretty good as opposed to some of the later junk that was brought in . Kalashnikov rifles are being made here now so they do not have to be imported . Better quality and more expensive too naturally .
No no America would not cease to exist. The people who would cease to exist would be the companies and executives who have made their living by exploiting cheap Chinese feudal labor.
The only obligation we have on our debt is self-imposed. Personally I would support toppling their regime before I would ever support repayment. The people we are paying over there are just the same "job creators" that are hoarding wealth and ruining our country here, they deserve a shallow grave not cash.
"toppel their regime" - you suck at history dont you? China has been in the top 3 for all time...and here comes america, the top dog for maybe what...2 centuries max?
how much more arrogant can we get?
Jessica, nowhere in Dan's comments was he attempting to rank China in any category so his grasp of history or lack thereof as it may very well be is irrelevant.
I'll take "Pulling Nonsense Directly From My Ass" for $500 Alex!
That's a 'DAILY DOUBLE'!
I would love to see everything "Made in America", but the cost of the products would probably run afew thousand dollars more per year. I mean who wouldn't mind shelling out afew thousand more per year.
What is the point of tracing the firearm? The only question is whether the shooter obtained the weapon legally, a question that goes back only to the seller, not the original manufacturer. As the article plainly states, Norincos were legally sold in the United States prior to the Clinton-era ban. Further, this gentleman had no reported criminal record nor pshychiatric hold that would have disqualified hm from purchasing these weapons--whenever that might have been-- and for all we know could have been years ago. How he obtained the weapon is therefore a complete irrelevancy.
It is an interesting question as to whether the weapon was or was not fully automatic, but contrary to what Chris says, such weapons can be legally purchased and possessessed as long as you have the proper license from the federal government. It is true, however, that it is difficult to obtain such a license.
When are people going to learn that it is not the gun that it is the issue, it is the shooter. Guns don't fire by themselves.
Exactly. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. This nutcase could have walked into the IHOP, grabbed a butter knife--no, I can't go on--
What is the purpose of tracing the firearm? You answered your own question in the next sentence. To see if the weapon was acquired legally. Contrary to popular belief, when the ATF does a "trace" on a serial number of a weapon, it doesn't give the last transaction for the weapon, it gives the FIRST. So what the article is saying is that they determined the firearm entered the US legally and was sold by a dealer who is out of business.
This is the reason it is difficult for them to follow the trail any further. If that dealer were still in business, the BATFE would call them and request the 4473 which would tell them who the dealer sold it to. Then the BATFE agents would have to track down that person and determine who he sold it to, and so on and so on until they get to the last owner of the weapon.
If that weapon has gone through numerous private sales where no documentation is required, then it becomes next to impossible for them to determine how the shooter came into possession of the firearm.
This system is what we have because of the fear of what could be done with a true "registration" system. It is a fear that is well founded if history is any indication.
The problem in this "gun control" debate is the extreme positions on both sides. There is no chance of "common sense" gun regulations being passed when the people that are pushing those regulations have stated their end goal is the complete confiscation of all firearms. The pro-gun side sees any attempt at regulation as a mere step towards the anti-gun end goal and will fight tooth and nail to keep the camel's nose out of the tent.
It is a shame actually. If the moderates on both sides could come together they might actually be able to find a way to limit these kind of tragedies.
M4Ogre - is there a reason we dont have a system that can track ALL transaction dates (if they are purchased/sold through legal avenues)?
I mean, we pretty much have that for CARS...why not guns?
I mean, its good to know that good ol fashion fear and irrationaliality is driving the leaders of this nation off the cliff. On both sides...
but im not really clear what the "fear" is over...how does registering guns lead to elimination of guns? I can see it leading to the elimination of some shady dealers though...and shady buyers.
Like I said Jessica, it is for fear of confiscation. It there were a central database that contained all that information, the fear is that at some point in the future, it would be used for confiscation of all firearms.
Under Hitler, Nazi Germany made all citizens register firearms. They were all confiscated shortly thereafter. Then about 6 million innocent people were slaughtered. Coincidence?
The liberals at MSNBC are testing the "let's ban guns" waters again.
What difference does it make where the gun was purchased?
And the right is peddling the "everyone should be armed" B.S. even though someone WAS armed and didn't take the shot. Turns out engaging in combat takes more than tough talk.
Next.
Really? Can you show me where this is true?
Are you blind? Read the posts.
I just assumed he brought it with him as he hopped the fence in Arizona.
after he hopped the fence ( invaded the USA ) Eric Holder handed him the AK and some ammo saying go have some fun at IHOP.
obama don't want illegal immigrants deported as he would have to leave the USA.
Are you still a birther?! Don't worry, we'll get you help soon.
AGAIN,,obviously,,it is the guns fault,,gimme a break
Pick and chose "news reporting."
No reasonable person cares where the firearms were made or sold; that is irrelevant! The firearms did NOT commit the crime; Sencion DID.
I don't see anything on this "news service" that even mentions the person, just back from a tour of duty, that shot one of the three guys that tried to rob what they thought were two lone females in a broken-down car on I95 a short time ago.
I keep forgetting; it isn't politically correct to mention the 800,000 to 2,000,000 times, DOJ statistics, a year that an armed citizen, defending themselves, their families or others, stops a crime without firing a shot.
And it certainly can't be PC to write that armed citizens, defending themselves and their families, kill seven times as many criminals as the police.
Amazing to me that it is correct information, however, it isn't politically correct information, so it is ignored by the media.
The media reports what they think is PC and send those who don't know any better, and those who believe them, to their deaths.
And you have the audacity to call yourselves "news" reporters.
That's the most idiotic thing I've heard in 27 days. Who cares where the drug dealer buys his inventory, the drugs did not commit the crime? Wherever this flake bought his guns, I want to know. If it's legal, all's good. If the gun deal was illegal then the death penalty, nothing less. But, I need to know where the guns came from so I'll know who to shoot, correct?
He killed himself outside of the IHOP, he already got a self-imposed death penalty.
Well done. Now, if some shady character sold him a gun illegally, then one down, one to go.
Maybe we should treat this as we always do when a terrorist strikes:
"What was his religion?" "Look at how violent Christianity is." "Why won't Christian leaders condemn such a barbaric attack?" "Let's bomb Latin America in retaliation!"
He was just crazy, he didn't do this in the name of his God. The a--hole towelheads kill people in the name of their god and that is just plain evil.
Actually, that the gun store that originally sold the rifle is out of business makes the trace even easier. Gun dealers who go out of business are required to submit all their records to the ATF for archiving. I have no doubt that the ATF knew who originally bought that rifle within minutes of learning the serial number. Determining what happened to it after that may not be possible, but that has nothing to do with the gun store going out of business.
OMG! Somebody actually does not believe everything the reporters say, and tell's the truth about what happens when a gun shop shuts down. I'm surprised this comment was allowed to be posted. I thought with Obama truthful statements were banned.
Well, you would think it makes it easier. You are correct. When an FFL ceases doing business, they are required to submit their records, but then again, you are giving the BAFTE a little more credit for being a functional entity than I ever did. That might be a bit harsh. Maybe I should have said "efficient". Although I still hold the view that they are dysfunctional as well.
It was reported that the shooter had serious mental problems for quite some time. How does a person with mental problems obtain a firearm legally?
Where does it say the firearm was legal?
First of all, ANYONE can obtain a firearm, a bomb, and dispite our best efforts, Iran has a nuke program. Get over it. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO PREVENT TECHNOLOGY FROM GETTING INTO THE "WRONG" HANDS. All the whining, crying, and law making after the fact isn't going to alter that fact. It certainly hasn't altered it before hand, or we wouldn't be having this conversation.
This boils down to malcontent of the people as a whole. It has been stated on these forums that "we are not a third world country. Why is this happening here"? Well, people aren't happy/content. The reasons are as varied as the people involved. But I think that if someone had recognized the symtoms of what was going on with this man BEFORE they festered to the boiling point, this could have been averted.
That's easy! It is entirely possible that the gun was bought before the 'alleged' mental illness started.
More guns.....that's the answer. For every 20 people killed by these madmen, maybe one sex crazed maniac is killed coming thru a window at night. Totally insanity reins. Thanks NRA and all your foolish followers. Do these people really think having a readily available gun is going to stop a government takeover. What twisted movie are you watching?
You're right, we do need to start arming ourselves. The GeTSApo is working to turn us into a police state as quickly as they can. They're moving into bus and rail terminals. Soon they'll try making checkpoints to frisk car drivers on the highway.
The madness does need to be stopped, quickly.
Actually for some 13,000 killed illegally by guns, guns legally save over 2.5 millions lives each year. Having a gun can stop a criminal. Some criminals work for the government.
Consider Janet Reno and Waco: The ability of the people to defend themselves kept the government from hopping in and casually murdering a few people. Because of their ability to defend themselves, their deaths were filmed, and that gave people a chance to resist. Sure, the government managed to keep up their siege until all the Waco Branch Davidians were dead, but it sure wasn't a secret.
Shooting a gun is a good way to summon help. It makes a lot of noise, and moves you to the top of the 911 list. Of course that may not be a good thing if the government is committing the crime. On the other hand, the government committing crimes with the video tape running leads to the people pushing back.
Are you claiming that more people are killed in mass murders than are killed legally, in self defense? By a factor of 20?
That sounds extremely unlikely to me. Please provide support for your claim.
Gov't takeover? And you're asking about "twisted"?
Atheismo: No data on mass murders vs. self-defense, but what I did find is extremely disturbing. The vast majority of gun deaths have nothing to do with self-defense:
There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[4] The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[5] with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.[6]
-CDC
The stupidity of the ranters and hyperventilating Liberals and posturing Conservatives...all so sad.
Fact: It was a semiautomatic rifle. The 7.62 x 39 ammo is in fact a lot LESS powerful than most std. rifle ammo.like 7.62x51 or 30-06..the Kalashnikov is not a Magic Evil Devil Gun. It does not spew thousands of radioactive Harry Potter enchanted magic demon bullets. It's a rifle, like any other, it will kill whatever you fire it at. All guns do that.
Fact: Millions of Norinco MAK-90 rifles were sold in America..millions. At a retail price of under $300 each, they sold like mad. And, in spite of the Liberal ravings in this article, the "Clinton Assault Weapon Ban" DID NOT stop them. What it did was cause 1) removal of the flash hider 2) removal of the bayonet lug 3) installation of a big wood stock 4) sold with a 10 rd mag instead of the 30. I was an FFL dealer at the time and I bought CASES of them for my movie company. I bought MAK-90, AR-15, MAC10, all after '94.
Fact: Automatic weapons/machine guns are completely LEGAL to own in the US. Just takes a permit. You can own a fully armed tank. I know people who do. You can own a fully armed helicopter. I know people who do.
Fact: The Chinese import of every single thing in every single Kmart, WalMart, Target, every store everywhere, has done 100 times more to destroy this country than any little gun ever could. You whine about jobs, you whine about your grocery bill, then you go buy Chinese crap at Wal Mart. Stupid.
another Fact: the Norinco MAK-90 from 1994 could be made to fire fully automatic with a paperclip, without applying for a permit.
I used to own a norinco MAK-90. Paper clip idea is great if you accidentally want the gun to runaway and shoot where you don't want it to, like the inside of your car. Same for filing down the sear. And illegally modifying a weapon this way is a federal crime. Remember, the feds don't have a problem locking up U.S. citizens, just foreigners.
...but killing people is also a crime. Criminals aren't too picky about what crimes they do and don't follow...
Rob-Seattle- You, and a lot of others here, should be greatful that this guy didn't think like most modern "terrorists" today do. Otherwise, we would have had another "Oklahoma City or 911 incident".
The man's mental state, how he got there, and what his friends and family could have done to avert this is what should really be discussed here. Not where the AK came from. These things discussed and hashed bear the highest chance of preventing the next incident from occuring... not whether we should ban already "banned from import" models of firearms.
Oh I am thankful, and sorry for those he targeted appearantly for their selfless act of serving their country. I beleive it comes down to 'bad people will do bad things' and good people will be astonished.
Way to take an incident that is an enemy act from a citizen of another country against our citizen soldiers and turn it into a hack piece against the second Amendment. We need firearms to defend against foreign enemy attacks such as this. Of course you at LSDNBC will continue to take tragedies such as this and continue to help erode all of our freedoms and protections as the propaganda wing of the liberal agenda. How many of these AK-47's have walked across the border at our governments doing and are being readied to draw more American blood. No need to report about that, huh?
Forget about tracking the weapon. Let's track the shooter. Just where did he come from and how did he end up shooting these people in Carson City. You need to quit blaming the gun and start blaming the perpetrator or maybe the people who brainwashed him into believing this was justified. His name doesn't sound like it but he might have been a muslim on a jihad.
Crex
That's how liberals work, they blame everyone except the one responsible for the crime.
The 2nd Amendment was also written so that " We The People " have the means of taking down a Tyrant Gestapo US Government that trys to turn citzens into subjects to be ruled.
As usual, the story is short on facts. It is far more important WHY he decided to kill people than what he used to kill them.
As a firearms owner I am perplexed by those who have an almost phobic fear of firearms. How about some fear of that 3 ton SUV passing by you at a combined speed of 100 mph on a two-lane highway. The fear of guns is almost as puzzling as the fear that conservatives have of liberals taking away their guns. I'm sure those who have little knowledge of the existing laws as well as terminology and technology of firearms will be putting forth their ill-considered calls for laws that are, most likely, already on the books.
But we can live without guns, but not without any mode of transportation.
Knightrider, You could try a bicycle or push cart. You might have just about as much sucess as you will have at repealing the second ammendment and rightly so.
It's not phobia Sir Nikon. Most people who want to see these kinds of firearms eliminated either enjoy or don't mind private firearm possession in some form.
There are a couple of ways to look at this problem. To buy some types of guns in some states requires nothing more than filling out a form and no waiting period. Then, that same person is able to turn around and kill dozens of people with great ease. On the other hand it takes hundreds of hours to obtain a pilot's license, and even if someone wanted to it would be almost impossible to actually kill someone on the ground as a novice pilot in a single engine plane. You following me on this? The standards are completely insane.
Then there is the question of what kind of firearm. Hardly anyone out there cares about anyone possessing a bolt action hunting rifle. They definitely care about anyone having access to military style weapons with receivers that can 1) be converted to full auto by any means and 2) are able to receive high capacity magazines. Anyone can get 30 round mags now.
Every time we hear about some psycho going on a rampage now he has a f@cking 30 round magazine, including the Giffords assassination attempt where he had a Glock 19 with the expanded 30 round magazine.
We have got our military service members and elected representatives being gunned like this is Mexico because a few dumbasses with gun factories can afford to give lobbyists cash.
My point is that we need durable and strict laws about what is allowed in civilian possession. Anyone who says they need a gun to protect themselves from the government is doing something wrong, and anyone who says they need these types of guns to protect their family doesn't know the first thing about real security or combat and has a better chance of getting some little kid killed than actually stopping a crime.
Milhaus...give me one example...ONE example of a crime being comitted with a legally owned full auto. Back it up with documented facts.
Matt and stonegarden, just a casual observation: Sencion was 32, a year younger than I am, and I was 8-9 in 1986. Maybe you see where I'm going with this.
Honestly, how many people still have these fully auto weapons legally? As I understand it, they cannot be "inherited", so only original owners or properly licensed arms dealers can have them, right? Original owners are going to be at least in their late 40's, if not their 50's or 60's or older.
You make it sound like we're all so stupid for not knowing how so many people (millions?) still have these guns legally. But it's not millions, it's at most a few thousand, right?
Jay, the comment was based on the statement Chris made about automatic weapons being illegal. There are two classes of automatic weapons, transferable, and not. Non-transferable weapons are essentially dealer samples, which they can have to showcase weapons, take to gun shows, etc, but are not allowed to sell. They are only legal for possession by police/military in current service.
The transferable kind has limited supply, but they are able to be sold/transferred freely between people, so long as an FFL conducts the business and both parties have Class III/NFA licenses to own these weapons. They are very expensive (10's of thousands) and usually just for collectors, but they are out there. At the firearm club I belong to, one person actually owns a 50BMG "Ma Deuce" M2 machine gun. They take it out annually on "machine gun day" to show it off and fire a few hundred rounds down range.
Jay Fox, The liberal media always refers to this type of weapon as AK47 which it is not. These are AK 47 look-a-likes that are not full automatic. Unless you have a license from the federal government you may not own or possess a full auto. The media wants you to believe that there are roving gangs with AK47's, just like you see on TV shooting in the air to show how stupid they are, from the middle east and recently (thanks to Obama) from Libya.