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Karim Kadim / AP
Two Iraqis watch a TV broadcast on the death of former Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi Friday in Baghdad, Iraq.
By Robert Windrem, NBC News' senior investigative producer
Some have written that Libya had a "Ceausescu moment" on Thursday, when former dictator Moammar Gadhafi’s body was paraded through the streets of Misrata. But while photos of the corpses of former Romanian Communist leader Nicolae Ceausescu and his wife, Elena, were widely distributed after they had were executed on Christmas Day, 1989, their bodies were quickly buried without any public display.
Getty Images
Nicolae Ceausecu
But history provides several more-apt comparisons of deceased leaders being publicly dishonored, including:
Najibullah, the one-named, Soviet-backed dictator of Afghanistan, who was holed up at the U.N. compound in Kabul when Taliban soldiers came for him on Sept. 27, 1996. He had believed, incorrectly, that his presence at the U.N. compound would offer him protection and that the Taliban would not kill him. They did more than that.
The Taliban fighters first castrated him, then broke his fingers. Finally, they dragged him to death behind a truck through the streets of Kabul. After Taliban fighters were persuaded he was dead, his body was hung from a traffic light. His brother, who was with him at the compound, faced a less public fate. He was shot to death.
The body of Saddam Hussein, following his execution on Dec. 30, 2006, (which was recorded on a prison guard's cell phone), was taken from prison and brought to a "viewing party" at an Iraqi government official's home before being buried, according to some published accounts. There was no public parading of the body, but pieces of the hangman's rope were distributed as souvenirs to those present at the hanging.
AP
A poor choice of footwear tripped up former Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al Said.
Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al Said also met an ignominious and pubic end. After King Faisal II and his family were assassinated at the royal palace on July 14, 1958, Said fled and went into hiding. But he was discovered by supporters of the coup led by two Iraqi colonels as he sought to flee the country disguised as a woman. His fatal mistake: He was wearing men's shoes. He was shot dead and buried, but his body was disinterred, dragged through the streets of Baghdad, where it was hung up in a public plaza, burned, and mutilated.
The closest comparison to Gadhafi’s end may be that of Benito Mussolini, the Italian Fascist leader who was killed April 28, 1945.
In the final days of World War II, Mussolini was trying to escape to Spain through Switzerland, where his Fascist ally, Francisco Franco of Spain, had a plane waiting for him.
Topical Press Agency / Getty Images
Italian dictactor Benito Mussolini is shown wearing ministerial garb in a 1926 file photo.
Mussolini and an entourage, including his mistress, Carla Petacci, were moving along the shoreline of Lake Como toward the border when they were stopped by partisans who recognized "Il Duce" even though he was dressed in a German military uniform.
He was taken to a house where the commander of the Communist partisans told him he was there to rescue him. The partisans put the group on a truck, but after a short ride the commander ordered Mussolini to get off and he was shot twice in the chest and killed. Shortly afterward, the others, mostly ministers from Mussolini's government, were executed by a firing squad.
The next morning, the bodies of Mussolini, Petacci and the others were trucked south in a moving van to a plaza in Milan, where partisans had recently been publicly executed. After being dumped at 3 a.m., word spread of their arrival. Soon, all were hung upside down on meat hooks from the roof of a gas station, where they were stoned by passing Italians.
After he was buried in an unmarked grave, Mussolini's body was dug up by loyalists and moved around Italy until authorities recovered it months later. But it was not buried in the Mussolini family plot for another 10 years.
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"A time -tested tradition"
Let the excuses begin.
Isn't this the same tripe they attempted to issue when the Wisconsin Dem senators ran from their jobs to hide in Illinois? "oh, actually eveyone does it ... Lincoln did it... they are just like Lincoln"
So why didn't we "follow tradition" and hang Osama's body up for display? heck we couldn't even see a picture of his corpse.... guess we don't care for traditions... until after our "allies" perform them.
Clearly you have major issues. Everything in the world revolves around your hatred of all things Democrat. You have issues. You should see a therapist.
Massive douche, tiny jimmy, no hair- that's what I image you to look like. You must be a miserable, angry person to lash out at progressives all the time with moronic vitriol. I agree with differnet- you need massive help. Find the pill that's right for you and shut the heck up already. No one want's to hear your angry Republican nonsense anymore.
Isn't this the same tripe they attempted to issue when the Wisconsin Dem senators ran from their jobs to hide in Illinois?
Reading comprehension fail.
Uncivilized peoples do uncivilized things. Animals.
#1 you have major major mental issues. You need to get off the meds.
I am glad Osama and Qaddafi are dead, they were executed and good riddance. I am also supportive of torture of terrorists to obtain information, like KSM. What bothers me is the politicization of it. While the media criticized the Bush administration for torture (by the way the last picture of him looked pretty healthy), the media praised the Obama administration for executing Osama and praised him for the death of Qaddafi's.
Again, I am in favor of killing them all, and KSM can rot in hell for all I care, but let's be fair about the praise.
Frankly I praise both Obama and Bush for the very difficult decisions they have made. Sitting behind that desk is a lot harder that criticizing it.
I wonder sometimes if Americans will be pushed to the point of bloody revolution and then if our leaders will be butchered and displayed. I do think if our government tries to use excessive force to subdue its population it will spur a revolution. It is hard to imagine Americans being that blood thirsty but I have seen recently some cold hearted ugliness in America so I suppose it could happen here as well.
I wonder about that too. I think it depends on how much you have suffered under the hand of your leaders; but after reading some of the hateful posts here on the vine, I think it could happen that some of our citizens would turn bloodthirsty, under the right circumstances.
Yes I too have seen a lot of hatred on the vine. Most seem to be young immature voices but some have been definitely older people advocating violence. I think the Rothschild's and other super wealthy people need to take heed to what is happening and begin to use their ill gotten gains to help the world rather than oppress it. I also think that the corrupted politicians who have betrayed the public trust needs to take heed before it is too late. The saddest part about violent revolutions is that the end result rarely frees people. After the initial high of winning, the old guard comes back in quietly and take control again and the easily corrupted will go along with it.
I think some right-wingers would love to drag Obama from the back of their pickups like some Old South lynching, but any civilized American should use their right to vote to remove a public official they don't approve of, instead of jumping to violence. Uncivilized people just to violence as a first resort.
Oh, yeah, I definitely see that here on the vine sometimes. Very sad, such intolerance.
CygnusI don't think it is just tobacco spitting truck owners who are guilty of intolerance. I have seen it out of lefties and righties educated and uneducated people. There are a lot of angry people out there.
However, there are some things that should not be tolerated in a civilized country. Sex slavery forced conversions honor killing abortion clinic bombings Nazism Fascism rape within marriage or female genital mutilations. These are a few to name.
When us "lefties" disagreed with the atrocities of Bush W. and his regime, we simply voted to not have it repeated again. I don't wish harm upon anyone. I can't say the same about some of the hatred I hear from the right. I'm amazed they even acknowledge Herman Cain. He and Steele must be huge black spots on the GOP agenda. Pardon the pun.
Cygnus Well I am glad to hear you do not wish harm on others but like I said I have read some really nasty hateful and advocating violence remarks by the right as well. I have never voted Republican but quite frankly I don't trust Obama either. Correct me if I am wrong but did he not sign off on the bank and corporations bailout? Now he says that they have not done anything illegal but maybe it is immoral and we should not blame the people that work on wall street? Then you have the Reps who don't want a job bill passed but don't mind giving bail out money to the banks which the Dems also got behind. Then you have foreign country bailouts and aid and of course the military industrial complex to fund. I think the only way America will get back to doing right by Americans is to throw both parties out in all gov't legislative branches and governing bodies and put in a party that is legally bound to execute what they have been voted to do. It is either that or direct vote. We know longer have a democracy we have a corporate owned government who are calling the shots.
From my perspective, the main difference is......that we're a democracy, and can replace those we don't approve of, and elect someone else. In a dictatorship, it's totally different.
The current Arab Spring is a good example of the people rebelling against the current power structure. After all, they [the people] never had a chance to vote in, or vote out their rulers. In a democracy, we don't have rulers.....just politicians [sleazy, and/or otherwise! lol!!]. We [the voting population] don't make our change with a gun, but rather...at the voting booth. That's why it's called a "Democracy"!
Maybe it's a time-tested tradition of knuckle dragging, terror supporting third world cavemen.
Oh great thanks! The caveman that helps me here at work just got pissed and left!
This story isn't worth the time MSNBC put in it. What's happening with the Wall Street protests please!
As much as I like to see monsters like Gadhafi (or however we're spelling it this week), Bin Laden and Hussein removed from the world, I don't want to see ANYONE mutilated, beaten, hanged or dragged. I wish they would just shoot them cleanly and be done with it.
I agree with Laura. This is no way to treat a man, even a dictator. He was alive, take him alive, give him a trial. What the Libyans did to him and his son, I have no respect for those people. No one should be treated that way.
You're full of crap. Wait until the stories of what he did come out. No better than the Hussein trash. Then you'll be pissed cause you were not there to take a dump on his bloated decaying corpse.
Sorry that you believe I'm full of crap. I know enough to know that he was a monster. I have no desire to take a dump on anyone's bloated decaying corpse and I'm confident that I will never have such a desire.
I'm not sure if I am in the majority, the minority, or anywhere in between, but when I hear what dictators like Saddam have done to people like the Kurds, I can get very mad; and yet, watching the killing and parading of Ghadafi really puts a whole in my spirit (I have no problem with his killing giev his acts of the past 2 months). I think that while we cannot fathom ourselves as particpating in such atrocities because we do value human life highly, we also can't condemn those who've lost loved ones, family members, co-workers, and country men to the Real animals, which are the dictators who hide behind titles and decorum. The avengers (most of) just act like animals until the moment is gone, and then lay dorment again. Here's hoping it never comes to that in the U.S.!
Wait a week, no one will care anymore. The news cycle will be on to the next subject.
pjam wanted to see Osama BinLaden's dead body I think he's just the person we need in the US Army. Then he can see all the dead bodies he wants. My money says he's all talk.
"They'll be swingin', swayin', records playin', disemboweling in the street."
"In Misarata, you know we gotta, disembowel him in the street."
Let's get to the point.
Next candidate is not Cain, it is Bashar al-Assad.,
Kim jung Ill., Macmoude-Aminijaajaa
The Saudi King, on and on.....
@!$%# with the people and you pay the prize.
Not much difference between what Gadhafi did to his own people and what his people finally did to him. Nothing like a bloodthirsty mob to show you how backwards they are on the evolutionary scale.
In either case, the rebels who killed him could have shown the world that they were better than him and kept him alive to be tried. Instead, they showed the world that if put in power, they will be no better than he was.
Don't get me wrong, I was in favor of seeing him deposed and brought to trial for his atrocities.
Oh well, another dictator bites the dust!!!
This is a shame that these backward people, these bloodthirsty fools did not have the vision to know that by keeping this man alive and having him go to trial, that they could have had justice for all the people of this country, some fool took it upon himself to shoot this man in the head on his own, just to say he killed this man, for no reason, he was unarmed and unable to do anything. I would hate to think that any American in his/her right mind would be ok with this kind of justice! How would you like it if your son or daughter was over there in the same situation and someone shot them in the head without giving them a trial? How would you like one of our leaders to be caught and taken prisoner and shot in the head. I was in the military and was in a war and I caught prisoners and it NEVER would occur to me to shot any unarmed enemy in the head after I had unarmed them and they were of no danger to me or anyone. The man should have been given a trial, He was a man not an animal, The guy who shot him should be put on trial for murder, he should not be made to think that he did something heroic HE DID NOT! He is a coward and a disgrace! Yes the dictator should have been given a trial and just maybe he would have been put to death BY his peers NOT by some rebel , who did not seen to value the law or Justice! Anybody that does not see the difference between killing someone without cause just because they can, or killing someone who was armed and shooting at them is a fool and danger to us all, this was wrong and it needs to never happen again. Please do not kill , hand the person over to the courts and let them do justice!
There are so many things wrong with your comment.
1. How on earth can you compare "your son or daughter" to a mass murder who killed thousands of people? Because frankly, if my child were responsible for that kind of evil, I wouldn't be too surprised if someone shot them in the head. Likewise, as bad as Western country leaders are, they haven't quite hit the genocide mark just yet. Im not going to get hung from my university for calling Obama or David Cameron a prick.
2. You grew up in a civilised country with a voting system, not only have these people been oppressed for decades, they've spent the last year in a war zone. There isn't a civilian in the country who hasn't lost a loved one. It's easy for us to sit and call for justice, but until you've lived through that experience theres no way you can comprehend how angry they are.
Believe it or not, I too wished he would have been kept alive to answer for his crimes, especially the Lockerbie disaster and the murder of that police woman. I grew up in Northern Ireland, so I've seen first hand the damage he's caused by supplying the IRA with Semtex. But im not stupid or naive enough to be outraged and shocked that they've killed him.
Also funnily enough, it's the same people crying out about these "backwards blood thirsty animals" that were praising the ambush of Bin Laden a few short months ago. Suppose these rights for a trial don't apply to everyone? Or do you think Bin Laden should have been kept alive as well?
Dabria: very well written. There are indeed degrees of "badness," and however "bad" we might think Mr. Obama or Mr. Bush might be, they are simply not in the same "badness" league with Khaddafi, Hussein, Kim etc.
I suspect your question in re OBL was rhetorical. Nevertheless, I'll provide my opinion. I wasn't there, so I don't know if the SEALs identified OBL before he was killed or not, but in situations such as obtained during that raid, niceties tend to go by the wayside. Shooting him could have been deliberate or a reflex. Either way, it's better that he's dead. Yes, under our laws he deserved a trial, even though (lawyers hate this argument) it would have been a mere formality. Common sense suggests that having an OBL trial would have been an absolutely unbelievable circus, merely to satisfy a procedural requirement in order to decide the obvious--honoring form rather than reason.
That perspective is applicable Khaddafi as well. Process was not served, but there was really nothing to "try." Khaddafi's guilt was a matter of public record, from Pam Am 103/Lockerbie on up to the present. Things worked out as they should have, not just in the way some might have preferred.
Where is Michael Moore condemning Obama for not giving Gadhafi his day in court?
President Obama had no control over the situation on the ground when Khaddafi was killed. He had, through NATO, a role in sustaining the Libyan revolution, but he had no control over the Libyan rebels individually, and it was one of them who decided to pull the trigger.
There was no need for a trial by the international court. He was tried,convicted, and sentenced by his own people as it should be and they carried out the sentence. The international court is controlled by those second rate bastards in the UN. A most wretched hive of scum and villainy. Third rate third world dirtbags who only benefit the bars, hotels, and whores in New York. Especially the arabs. they act so pious and indignant when a woman in their country drives but they are some of the biggest users of western prostitutes and are capable of the most deprived acts. The Saudi's are the worst. they have money and they use it degrade western women to the point of buying them for their perversions. Screw the UN, Screw the Hague. Kill all dictators quickly and publicly.
So Lapenta I guess if some nut with a gun sees you , or your wife or your kids or any American walking down the streets of their country and you and yours are on vacation in their country that because they think ALL Americans are second rate bastards and scum and dirt bags, who act so pious and indignant because they don't think much of their way of life that it is alright to shoot you and your family? You are silly and if you can't see that what you said is dumb and uncaring and without merit I am really sorry for you and your family and America, you should know that killing someone who is unarmed is the same as murder, justice is not served this way, shame on you! You are no Christian, you are no better than the people you claim are selfish, at least the international court would try to save YOU and YOURS and not convict and sentenced your sorry,.silly, self to be shot in the head without a trial, God you are so dumb!
Only five examples were given.
Of the multiple countries on this planet, I think five is not a large enough number to give the article a title that implies tradition.
It would more aptly have been titled, Why Some Countries Find It Necessary To Torture its Leaders.
Or, Why Some Nations Take Pleasure in the Exploitation and Destruction of its Leaders' Cadavers.
I expressed dismay yesterday on FB at the grisly images of Ghadaffi.
Some attacked me.
I hold my position, that death, even the death of an evil man, is no thing to celebrate.
I understand relief from oppression's end, that is natural.
But there is an efficiency and nobility in disposing of the dead body, and why so many took great pleasure in staring at the face of death is beyond my comprehension.
In this nation, when people die, we cover their faces.
Everyone's faces.
Even evil faces.
Very well said, besides the "evil" is gone, and all that is left is the vehicle that carried it. Disrespecting it will not undo anything.
"Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al Said also met an ignominious and pubic end." I am assuming this is a typo?
He was a dictator, loathsome he might be , when captured he did not deserve such barbaric treatment. We speak for human rights, human decency but our media went along with this uncalled for behavior of Gaddafi's killers.
Neither did the people his regime killed during the years he held office. It was a vigilante death, yes. Barbaric? I don't know; he wasn't mutilated. He was roughed up a bit, hit with shoe soles. a terrible form of disrespect and then shot twice. Some of the fighters there wanted him alive for a trial but that would only have postponed the inevitable. I think he felt the fear there at the end that many of his victims felt. Our media reported it, they didn't encourage it. One of the rebels recorded it on his cell phone. He was their dictator. Who are we to insist they treat him with respect?
Take the religious context out of it, and just look at the quote itself - it comes from the movie "Amazon Queen." Where Katherine Hepburn tells Bogie, "Human nature is what we were put on this earth to RISE ABOVE."
Of course, the religious context was meant; her character was a missionary. But rising above the bestial aspects of our human nature IS what we need to do, if we want civilization at all. Her quoted words apply as much to generic morals and values as they do to the religious ones. You can't be civilized and behave at the lowest of your animal behaviors.
I'll give you another quote, from Isaac Asimov: "Violence is the final refuge of the incompetent." So true.
Catering to people's worst attributes, their base visceral urges (rather than setting examples of a higher standard, by rising above those things), is a prime indicator of a dysfunctional culture. A functional one encourages the use of our better human attributes. No culture can ever be totally successful at this, of course, but those who work at it can achieve a lot.
You can only proclaim the validity of your anger at Khadafy by treating him BETTER than he'd have treated YOU. We know now what they chose.
Respect for the dead is one of those generic and religious values that only uncivilized people would abuse.
It doesn't matter how angry you are, or even how justified your anger is. What matters is YOUR behavior if and when a person who has earned your loathing is killed. The worst of them all still deserve respectful treatment of their corpses. No amount of anger justifies any kind of abuse to a corpse - and hitting one with shoes, dragging one on public display through the streets - this is what ANIMALS do (actually, animals are not that stupid, but I know no term to define any creature BENEATH the animals). Those who revere human life - and all life, actually - are civilized in that regard. I don't detect much of that among the Libyans.
Khadafy was a brutal and bestial dictator. But he was also a product of the very same culture whose people grew to hating him (justifiably or not, it doesn't matter), and who slaughtered him, then abused his corpse. They are no better than he was.
This was vigilantism, pure and simple. The leaders had the OBLIGATION to protect him from hotheads. They OWED him a trial, once he was captured and disarmed. They failed because they WANTED to fail.
I'm glad he's out of power, but dread to see what the body-abusing people who killed him will concoct for the future of Libya. When regimes are ended in this sort of fashion, it's almost axiomatic that the new one taking its place will be just as bad - often worse.
It's doubtful that Libya will somehow gain a democracy after all this bloodshed and bestial behavior.
Abuse of corpses of those who are hated IS a time-honored tradition in Islam, as are many other atrocities. That's why it should be risen above by Muslims who really WANT democracy, rights and liberties, rather than given free rein. Won't happen, though.
If Libyans want to wallow in such bestial traits within themselves, they will have only themselves to blame when/if Libya becomes yet another viscerally-driven country. When a "time-tested tradition" is one which corrodes the civilizing effects of a culture, it needs to be DUMPED.
None of us suffered as the Libyan people have, so we can't judge how they felt. As John Wilkes Booth said and it applies better to Ghadafi than Lincoln.... "Sic Semper Tyrannis" All tyrants must die.
If the tyrants of the world were all allowed to live, tyranny would go on and on with no fear of reprisal. Death by crowd or firing aquad is appropriate.
Tthus always to tyrants is the correct translation. Sorry
Gaddafi's execution ,seems we are becoming part of gruesome spectacle - Saddam's hanging like a circus show - no voice of decency or abhorrence of this barbaric act. We over throw these dictators but leave them at the mercy of blood thirsty, revenge mongers. Surprisingly , we ourselves did not make public square execution of Nazis honchos after the defeat of Germany in WW2.
Like you Boss Black foot, I am former military et al., but I
disagree, Qaddafi was an animal and should have been put down. Your analogy to
him and the average soldier is apples & oranges. Your apples obeyed orders
your orange gave the orders. Eye for an eye and let the punishment fit the
crime. In my opinion he didn't suffer enough. Remember he was a sponsor of
terrorism. Please remember the Pan Am flight blownup over Lockerby, Scotland. He
financed and allowed training of the terrorist responsible for that attack, just
to name one.
I think you have forgotten about the blacks being lynched for their color back in the days and the chinese killed just to check if the color of blood was yellow!
I might not understand what exactly the rebel's were fighting for, so if I am wrong please let me know. Wasn't the rebellion started because of the cruelty, barbarism, torture, and many deaths at the hands of Gadafi over the last 40 years of his regime ?
If those were the reasons for the uprising I could find their motivation very convincing. I know that I would not wish to live in a country were the people are completely helpless over their own fates. However, I find myself feeling troubled that the 'rebels' who had taken up arms to defeat a murdering dictator, turned around and acted exactly the same way...
That the 'rebels' so easily slipped into the same brutal behavior the moment they captured Gadafi does not bode well for Libya's future. If you are fighting to create a way for people to be treated humanely with true balance, and justice then it would seem that those ideals would not allow you to commit some of the same acts as the dictator you are overthrowing. I pray that I am wrong, but I am fearful that the people of Libya have traded one dictator for a state of chaos as the 'rebels' break with each other and fight over who will truly be in power next.
Again, I hope I am wrong...
To me these rebels are leaderless mob. Without US & NATO support, they would have remained a mob no more no less. Gadafi would have routed them in no time.Now let us see who emerges as a leader, capable of uniting tribes. It is a vast country with a population 6 millions & lot of petro dollars.