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Reuters / Brian Snyder
Republican presidential candidate and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney listens to a question in New Hampshire on Dec. 11. He said in an interview about the missing public records that he had no obligation to help researchers for his opponents.
It appears it was legal for Mitt Romney's aides, on their way out of the governor's office in Massachusetts in 2006, to write personal checks for $65 each to buy the hard drives from their state office computers, taking with them government emails and other records of his administration, including information about the birth of the Romney health care insurance mandate.
It was legal for the Romney administration to spend $97,000 in public money to swap out computers and email servers, making sure that emails never got into the hands of the public, journalists, historians and, not incidentally as Romney himself points out, his opponents in the 2012 presidential campaign.
And the Romney administration got legal permission, Reuters reported Thursday evening, to destroy 150 boxes of government records.
But illegality is not the only test, say advocates of open government, who wonder when the public will insist that all candidates for high office do more than give lip service to transparency.
"Public officials need an attitude adjustment," said Ken Bunting, executive director of the National Freedom of Information Coalition at the University of Missouri. "They need to recognize that the instruments of the government don't belong to them. They belong to the people. Self-government doesn't work without information. Government records, including emails, ought to be available without filing a lawsuit, without any more than a keystroke."
"Here's the irony," Bunting added. "In a roundabout way, Romney and his aides may have done a favor for open government. I would imagine that, for the citizens of Massachusetts, buying your hard drive so things disappear doesn't pass the smell test. Everybody's going to know it was done for the purpose of hiding information from the public. Even if that's perfectly legal, people would say, ‘How can they get away with that?’ Maybe there will be a move to change the law."
Is open government on the list of issues you consider when you choose a candidate? Post your comments below.
The facts so far
Here's what's known about the case of the purged emails and missing boxes:
On Nov. 17, The Boston Globe reported that 11 members of Romney's staff bought 17 computer hard drives five years earlier. Of course, the staff were buying more than a used hard drive — they were buying the government records on those hard drives. What about the backup copies on state servers? Other computers in the governor's office were replaced as part of "routine maintenance."
Reuters moved the story forward on Dec. 6, documenting that the Romney administration spent $97,000 to replace computers, causing other emails to be lost. On its way out the door, the Romney team spent $205,000 for a three-year lease on computers for the governor's office, replacing a lease that had provided the same number of computers for $108,000.
Aides to Romney's successor, Gov. Deval Patrick, a Democrat, said they can't fulfill public records requests for the Romney administration's emails because the emails are gone. A spokesman for Romney's campaign blamed Patrick, a supporter of President Obama, for encouraging requests for public records, but didn't answer the question why the state computers were replaced, making the records unavailable to the public.
Then this Thursday, Reuters reported that the Romney administration got permission to destroy 150 boxes of paper records. A Romney spokeswoman wouldn't say whether the records were actually destroyed, but said the law was followed.
When the hard-drive story broke, Romney's staff emphasized that the purchases were legal. State law doesn't make it a crime to erase digital records, and state employees do have the option to buy the state computers they had used, though state officials said they can't recall anyone else buying just the hard drives.
Romney's reasons
The former governor has said the hard drives could have contained private information, such as "medical records, resumes from people who have applied for jobs, judicial appointments made, and people applying for those positions."
Keeping private information private wouldn't necessitate buying the hard drives, however. When government records are released to the public, it's common to redact, or withhold, information that is private, while disclosing the rest. If that weren't the law in every state, public officials could make every government record off limits to the public by merely writing their Social Security numbers or home telephone numbers at the bottom of the page. But state laws are an outdated patchwork when it comes to electronic information. Here's a guide to state laws on access to electronic information, from the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press.
Romney offered another rationale, in a subsequent interview with The Telegraph in Nashua, N.H., saying he had no obligation to help his political opponents. "Well, I think in government we should follow the law. And there has never been an administration" in Massachusetts, he said, "that has provided to the opposition research team, or to the public, electronic communications. So ours would have been the first administration to have done so."
Since then, he has dodged questions at campaign events about whether his computer was one of the ones that got a new memory, calling out to reporters "Thanks, guys," as he ducked into an SUV. If elected president, he said, he would follow a policy of transparency, doing "what is required by the law and then some."
On Dec. 7, The Boston Globe reported that previous Republican governors of Massachusetts had similarly wiped the slate clean, though the purchasing of home drives seems unprecedented. Tens of thousands of Cabinet secretary emails in the last three Republican gubernatorial administrations were automatically wiped off state computers after the officials left office, officials said.
A different set of records from the Romney administration will be made public. The Massachusetts secretary of the commonwealth will make available more than 460 boxes of archived documents. These will be made available five boxes at a time — no word yet on when that will begin or how long that will take.
Other Romney records are already public, but clearly that's mostly chaff. "An Associated Press examination of much of the available Romney archives holdings earlier this year suggested the material available then was far from comprehensive. More than 75 cartons reviewed by the AP included staff and legislative documents but no internal records written to or from Romney himself — except for ceremonial bill-signing and official letters."
An issue in many states
One element of this case is unique to Massachusetts. Though the state law calls for retention of emails as public records, a 1997 ruling by the state's Supreme Judicial Court made gubernatorial records exempt from that public records law. The secretary of the commonwealth, William Galvin, a Democrat, said Romney still had an obligation to turn all records over to the state archives, not to allow employees to take them, even if they wouldn't have been subject to disclosure.
"I'm not aware of any other state where the governor's office has such a broad exemption," said Bunting at the freedom of information clearinghouse. "In a lot of states, judicial emails are exempted. In about half the states, the legislature isn't covered."
Don't miss that part. Legislators tend to exempt themselves from state and federal records laws. That's why you're not reading emails from Barack Obama's term in the Illinois Senate, or Newt Gingrich's tenure as speaker of the House.
But other elements of this story are more common from state to state. Republican and Democratic governors have fought to keep public records out of the reach of the public. In Washington state, for example, Gov. Christine Gregoire, a Democrat, has exerted executive privilege to block access to records, in a case about to go to the state Supreme Court. And in Texas, presidential candidate Gov. Rick Perry's staff has argued that it must keep emails for only seven days before purging them, because of a supposed lack of disk space for storage. Perry's office said the policy was the same one followed by his predecessor, George W. Bush.
The value of such records was demonstrated again this month in South Carolina, where Gov. Nikki Haley, a Republican, sought the office on a platform of transparency in government. The State newspaper reported that her office had deleted most of its emails. Then emails did emerge showing that Haley tried to steer a state health care panel to a conclusion that she preordained.
Lessons from history
Romney's opponents haven't made much of the document purge. Newt Gingrich did make a comment, "in non-candidate mode," asking, "They did what?" And he added in another of his roles that it would make a good twist in a political thriller, "As a novelist, by the way, it's a lot of fun."
After Romney's non-explanatory explanations, the Erasergate story has dropped from Washington political media reports on the campaign.
"I'm not surprised that it hasn't had more legs, given what passes for journalism these days," said Mark Feldstein, a historian, former investigative correspondent for CNN and ABC and now a professor of broadcast journalism at the University of Maryland. "These records don't belong to Mitt Romney or his staff. Those computers are paid for by the taxpayers, and they were working on taxpayer time."
Feldstein, who wrote a history of Washington scandals called "Poisoning the Press: Richard Nixon, Jack Anderson, and the Rise of Washington's Scandal Culture," said historians "are concerned, how are they going to write the history of these times if so much is on email and so few emails are preserved."
But politicians now, he said, are more savvy than in President Nixon's day.
"The great lesson learned from the Nixon administration wasn't to be more honest, but to not get caught, to make sure you don't leave a trail behind you," Feldstein said.
"Mitt Romney's father was a Cabinet secretary for Nixon, and no one in his administration would have been impervious to that lesson. George Romney was HUD secretary. The lesson was clear: Too much disclosure can torpedo an elected president, much less a presidential candidate."
We sent questions to the Romney campaign: Why did the staff purchase the hard drives? Was it to keep emails out of public hands? What is the campaign's position on open and transparent government? We heard no reply.
What do you think? Are you interested in holding public officials accountable for open government? Comment below.
"I think it matters more to the people like us," lamented Feldstein, the historian and former journalist, "than it does to the public."
Leave a Comment:
The point will be moot as Newt will be the nominee and President Obama grows some cojones and be less compromising with the right wing.
This is the season....
of bringing anything that can destroy a person politically. If people ever wonder where all those millions and millions for political campaigns go; the money is used to find anything that can be used against a person.
The money should be better spend in helping those people that need it most, such as all those vets coming from Iraq, without any job or the possibility of finding one. The "Presidential Hopefuls"are just interested in tearing down President Obama. Did anybody hear any of these people saying anything good about the veterans coming from Iraq? Did we hear a "thank you" from any of them? Not a word. Only hate rhetoric.
What they really need is a one-way ticket home - kick them all out of office and lets elect people who really want to represent us in the Government, not Corporations and Wealthy Contributors
What's the point here? Oh, I get it, another BS attempt by MSNBC to make a conservative candidate look bad to us uninformed dumb public voters. Sorry, NBC, we independandandts are on to you. Take your BS and go read it yourself.
Mittens made himself look bad, Skippy - once again...
Neither one of them pass the smell test. People have to stop playing party politics and choose the best candidate for the Country.
This Article is stupid like the rest of them. Also, were do they get the idea that it was just the hard drive. Because probably all they have proof of is that a dumb computer illiterate person wrote hard drive on the check. There was nothing illegal as the article says, so why blame a great Governor for nothing really.
A missing hard drive? This is OUTRAGEOUS!!
However, a fishy situation surrounding a presidential candidates' birth records, sealed or missing college transcripts and Harvard Law Review articles, associations with communists and domestic terrorists and racists, and a social security number from a state the person never lived in.. well...who cares about that! In fact, let's just call anyone who brings it up a nut!
Ok, I do not care which party you are from, but you have to admit that something is wrong with how methodical his administration was about removing information. It might be nothing, but it's smells, especially with how government data has to be retained for certain period of time.
"... people like us" are muckrakers and yellow journalists eager to snuffle through tens of thousands of emails in the hope of finding a carelessly used "gotcha!" word or phrase that can be used to bring down a political opponent.
In my opinion email is the equivalent of conversation. Until we begin recording politicians 24/7, on and off the record, in private or public, email ought to be off-limits as well.
OK. You're a nut
Sorry Skiddy. These Candidates need no help looking bad, they are doing a fine job all on their own. And Romney is not a conservative.
Let me guess, you had no problem when Romney lied and said he lived in his son's unfinished basement in Mass so he could actually run for governer. meanwhile he had 3 mcmansions elsewhere across the country. So it would make sense that you would have no problem that he destroyed all evidence of said illegal governership. Typical conservative you are, do as we say not as we do.
I wonder If Obama had destroyed any records how loud you would be yelling IMPEACH!
Of course, skiddy, straight out of the republicon playbook. When something doesn't "pass the smell test", blame it on the media.
Just a few weeks ago, Cain also tried it. THAT worked out well.
Your president had both houses of congress for two years and only succeeded in driving up the debt. He got everything he wanted. When asked by the right for compromise early on in his term, he replied "I won"
You dumbocrats have written your own death warrant. Wait til November 2012.
Start packing.
REgardless, it smells doesn't it? And the people of these States need to start insisting for transparency. It takes an investigative reporter to find these things out.
notaliberl, what happens when he wins? Again over half the debt is left over from bush, because he never put 2 wars, drug plans and tax breaks on the budget. Obama has at least done the responsible thing and made those items part of the budget.
thats all you have left is dombocrats? Thats very clever, perhaps you should put some of the cleverness into properly informing yourself, cause to be honest, it just makes you look dumb.
The country is in debt up to you know what, and the unemployment rate is really 13%, yet MSNBC's daily moment by moment analysis is that of dog track announcers, "Speedy has slipped in the first turn". Pathetic journalism. This is a daily 24 hour pick apart and I'm sick of it. Obama slides through with zero accountability, and you guys look the other way, but if it's a republican it's gotcha. Pathetic, and you only fool the already befuddled fools.
What do you expect? Politicians don't have a reputation for being lying, sneaking, kneiving two faced scoundrels for no reason!!!
What Romney did was no different than what has ever been done by any other politician. These guys are loyal to those with the most influence and cash. They are only concerned with positioning themselves to be able to obtain more power and control.
My guess is that Romney, like many republicans, has information to hide which will show a link between his policy and some influencial parties who are obvious beneficiaries to his policy.
This is what should be expected especially when a politician who is elected by his/her constituents has already signed a pledge to a lobbyist, Grover Norquist, prior to even formally entering office.
Like the article says...... It's not that politicians need to be more honest, they just have to be more careful not to get caught. And with more and more money involved in politics, the temptation to deceive becomes more and more attractive.
Romney is probably the most transparent and best qualified politician seeking the Presidency. I have no reason to be concerned about his legal disposition of computer records in his control.
That'd be great, but none of them ever run for office. Takes way too much cash for honest people to make it.
The yellow press is worry for Obama, Mitt can beat Obama according to the polls, so now is time to start trowing mod. Obama's past has more to worry about, his ties with domestic terrorist, with the Chicago mafia, his pass though Chicago Courts, his only vote present in as Senator in Chicago, his socialist political godfather, his inconclusive project to remove asbestos in a poor area of Chicago. This time is not going to be easy, while Mitt has record to get things done working with both sides of the isle, Obama and his lack of leadership nothing gets done an only blame the other party to justify his failure as a leader.
For all you Republican lovers out there that try and blame the press for all the negative stories that come to light about your politicans, get over yourselves. No one else makes them look bad, they do it to themselves. That's real nice of Romney to already have coverups when he's not even the Republican candidate. You all sure have a great bunch of characters to choose from. Besides that, if you don't like what MSNBC has to say then DON'T READ THEM!!!!!!! Stick to your bias FAUX PROPAGANDA NEWS.
JK, you've got to be kidding. Romney the most transparent candidate? Nothing like throwing away paperwork and getting rid of hard drives to make one look transparent.
JK, you've got to be kidding. Romney the most transparent candidate? Nothing like throwing away paperwork and getting rid of hard drives to make one look transparent.
This video from George Carlin is right on the mark! Rated R!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV1lZMTCqf8&feature=related
Mittens is just another damned criminal who thinks he's better than the rest of us. He thinks he can get away with anything.
Trei like it or not, Fox News is more trusted than MSNBS CNN and all the media bias according to polls. Get your facts. I read MSNBC and have fan how lefties rub their hand evry time a lie come from this place.
article...."Legislators tend to exempt themselves from state and federal records laws. That's why you're not reading emails from Barack Obama's term in the Illinois Senate, or Newt Gingrich's tenure as speaker of the House.... Republican and Democratic governors have fought to keep public records out of the reach of the public. In Washington state... Gov. Christine Gregoire, a Democrat, has ...exerted executive privilege... in a case about to go to the state Supreme Court. And in Texas....Gov. Rick Perry's staff has argued that it must keep emails only 7 days before purging them, because of a supposed lack of disk space for storage. Perry's office said the policy was the same one followed by his predecessor, George W. Bush.".....
No wonder politics is all a mess. Tricky Dick all over again, only now, just hit "delete", Rosemary.
And now, the former state employees who SHOULD NOT have access to this data have it.
Think about this - if a bank employee leaves and he takes the hard drive with customer's information on it, would you be comfortable with that? What if he uses your SSN to open a line of credit?
Those hard drives have sensitive information about OTHER people, SSNs, medical records etc. Why do they need the information now?
All these staffers plus Romney should be tried in court for security breach.
George Carlin was a genius. Amazing how his routine was relevant to today.
Every, and I do mean EVERY politician, is a crook at heart, regardless of political affiliation. They ALL go after the easiest way to benefit themselves, and the people they represent, the people putting money in THEIR reelection campaign, so they can make more money on the backs of the people actually paying the bills: THE TAXPAYER.
Frosty....what are you doing on here? You're much too reasoned to contribute here...your comment will probably be "collapsed by the community"....
With all the ineptness and corruption in the obumbo administration and PMSNBC worries about some emails??? Anything they can do to sabotage Mitt will be their top priority rather than looking into the shortcomings of the obumbo administration.
Red Va.- Fox is most trusted media in polls? Only if it's a poll of Fox viewers.
LOL @ SKIDDY
YOU CANT EVEN SPELL INDEPENDENT RIGHT LOLZ
what s a right wing joke
the irony is that the word is very important in this article n to the belief of rightwing nut jobs
Interesting.... the article states that nothing was illegal about what happenned to the records, yet lib posters want to paint romney and probably other candidates in a very bad light. It wouldn't have anything to do with the grief that some gave obama on his birth certificate could it??
LOL, the left must be running scared...
and priase the lord if msnbc finds anything about obama, you conservatives starts whining and riding your high horse
BUTTT NOOOO
its romney!
a right wing!
taxan?!
nope, leave him alone
lol lol lol
hypocrites
news is new, msnbc is just telling you
if you are watching fox news, you think they will tell you o.o?
If more media and people were paying attention to the last Presidential campaign, they would have noticed that Mike Huckabee is guilty of the same.
Huckabee and his staff removed/destroyed all the documents, hardrives prior to his leaving his 12 year governor position to run for President. This was discovered on a public records request.
A quick search of 'Huckabee governor documents destroyed reveals information wherein sites wrote about this. Motherjones requested info and were told the documents 'The records are unavailable, and the computer hard drives that once contained them were erased and physically destroyed by the Huckabee administration as the governor prepared to leave office and launch a presidential bid.'
Writing to Gov. Beebe, his "chief legal counsel, Tim Gauger, replied in a letter that "former Governor Huckabee did not leave behind any hard-copies of the types of documents you seek. Moreover, at that time, all of the computers used by former Governor Huckabee and his staff had already been removed from the office and, as we understand it, the hard-drives in those computers had already been 'cleaned' and physically destroyed."
He added, "In short, our office does not possess, does not have access to, and is not the custodian of any of the records you seek."
Well worth a search and read of the Mother Jones April 1, 2011 post (you cannot post a link in the comment as it is deleted - I tried) as it reveals the 'real' Huckabee - a snake in the grass he is. A 'Man of God' - no, he's a 'Man of Satan' masquerading as a trustworthy man.
When you use the excuse of information like social security numbers in the documents shouldn't be released to the public - that's pure BS. Shows you how Huckabee and Romney et al believe everyone but them are stupid in that this kind of info is heavily redacted. The stunned and stupid are the likes of Huckabee, Romney, et al.
What it did do to the citizens of the state who had an active issue or problem, they had to start the process again. You never know, some could be life threatening matters and the likes of Huckabee and Romney are so narcissistic, they have no consideration for others.
As far as transparency, how about all those Obama Care discussions, emails, texts, etc between Obie, Pelosi Galore and Half Read. Further, remember Pelosi Galore said we have to pass this to find out what is in it...WHAT? Where was the rage then or now about a sitting (lame) duck Prez's transparency...more like trans-Piracy...eh, matey?
Of course those trusting Fox viewers are more misinformed than people who don't watch.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-uninformed-npr-listeners-not-poll-suggests/
This story puts Romney and his administration in a terrible light. Just because it is legal doesn't mean it passes the smell test - and this stinks to high heaven. Why would somebody defend this practice? As republicans ALWAYS say, "if you don't have anything to hide what are you afraid of?". What did Mitt want to hide? And he certainly wasn't fiscally responsible.
"Public officials need an attitude adjustment," said Ken Bunting, executive director of the National Freedom of Information Coalition at the University of Missouri. "They need to recognize that the instruments of the government don't belong to them. They belong to the people. Self-government doesn't work without information. Government records, including emails, ought to be available without filing a lawsuit, without any more than a keystroke."
So let's see Obama's Emails and Blackberry files.
$97,000 public money to replace computers
$205,000 for a three-year lease on computers with public money replacing a lease that had provided the same number of computers for $108,000.
Employees purchase hard drives for all computers.
Anyone say over kill. Anyone say what a waste of MY money.
Will we ever learn.
You people have got to get a life. Hard drives that were purchased in 2006 are worthless. Most of them could not even adapt to a new computer. Anyone that has ever used a computer knows that the lifetime of a HD is roughly about 2 years at just moderate use. If a computer is never turned off, they crash in about a year. Bring this crap up from 2006 is just worthless rhetoric crap. Get a life news media and any one else that thinks that this is important. A $65 hard drive? Not even worth writing a check for. I would not even own a piec of crap like that.
LOL red virginia did u just say Fox news is trust worthy Lol! you officialy lose credibility in this thread. fox news is the worst news station ever and its not even news. if you watch it your brains turns to mush by all the BS they are saying.
Before you attacked Romney did you bother to read the article and understand that everything Mr Romney did was done LEGALLY?
I did not notice in the article where the author stated if any records were available for the Democrat Govenor of MA before Romney or records from the current Govenor Deval Patrick.
This is just a political witch hunt.
Hey teabagger -Get your head out of your rich friends A$$ and really see what they have done to our country.
Darl123,
My comment above your's about Huckabee - it cost $335,000 from public funds to replace the equipment.
Party politics,,, Yup, they have the party, we get the bills. Those who think ALL politicians don't do this in some form or another are delusional. Just try getting information from any of them, stall, deny, refuse. This includes those screaming loudest for transparency, like Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the Democratic roach pack. Politicians of every stripe have one thing in common, If they're mouth is moving, They are Lying to you. Whenever the spot light of scrutiny is focused on them they scurry around like cock roaches, trying to hide form it. There is no Transparency in any government at any level. ALL dirty, ALL the time. You have four "so called" political philosophies now Democrat, Independent, Republican, and Tea party. Forming the acronym D.I.R.T., Dirt. A fitting description in my opinion. It's all about money and power for them, that, and keeping it. They would sell the grand mother to keep it. Politician has become a polite term for liar, criminal, thief and scoundrel. Party affiliation is only to benefit the less informed. In real life, it is meaningless. They are all out for what they can steal, embezzle, extort, or get through some back room under handed deal. Wake up and smell the excrement they're shoveling.
lib50 "Of course those trusting Fox viewers are more misinformed than people who don't watch."
Hey, here's an idea. Let's take a poll with questions based only on what is presented on NPR and see which group gets more questions right - NPR or FOX.
Then we can claim that those who watch NPR are more 'informed' than those who watch FOX.
Other polls show that FOX viewers are better educated than the general public. Perhaps that's why FOX dominates cable news. For example, 38% of FOX viewers have graduated from college vs only 31% for viewers of MSNBC.
Florida family,
Since the "personal" information on the hard drives the employees purchases was most likely THEIROWN, (i.e Their SSN, medical records or emails, etc. NOT other peoples), since they purchased the hard drive from THEIR computer, what is your problem??
If you knew anything about government IT systems, you would know that "Personally Identifiable Information" or PII must be encrypted and secured by domain password if stored on a system's LOCAL hard drive. This is standard "Data at Rest" security policy. So once they leave their government job and their account is deactivated, they can't access the encrypted files without high-end hacking tools and knowledge, if at all. I would want to keep all my old emails and documents for strictly "cover my a$$" reasons and if that doesn't make sense to you, then you've truly a naive soul. You know how "Records" disappear when someone is trying to make you the scapegoat?? Or have you forgotten all those subpoenaed documents that suddenly appeared on the table in Hillery Clinton's White-house office the day after the statute of limitations expired.
In this day in age of Identity theft, if I wasn't the one doing the Hard drive scrubs/wipes for retired systems, I would definitely want to keep the hard drive out of my system.
You are making an awful lot of ASSumptions about what data was on those hard drives. Maybe you need a new tinfoil hat.
irespond #1.1 - First I am an Independent not a Rep. Here you go with you Lib Views on how people should spend there money, it is there money quit trying to tell them how to spend it. There has been nothing good that Obama has done for this country. He tries to blame his shortcomings on Bush and the Rep. When in fact he had both the House and Senate for the first two years of his term and he did nothing except ram health care down are throats, with 59% off Americans did not want. Than imply that Obama brought our troops home when in fact it was Bush that had them withdrawing at the end of this month. It is funny all of his shortcomings he blames on Bush but when it was Bush did right he takes the credit as his own. A complete failure as a president and a leader.
the liberal;
Clearly yours has already been reduced to ashed from the B.S. poured over by the likes of CNN, BBC, MSNBC. You seem oblivious to the fact that ALL politicians are criminals. NONE cares if you live or die beyond the taxes they extort yearly or the contributions they attempt to curry. It's all about money and power and hanging on to it at all costs. Truth is the first casualty of politics. ALL dirty, ALL the time. Make a request for records from you favorite liberal, let us know how transparent they are in releasing them to you. Left and Right only apply on paper. In practice they are all the same lying, cheating, stealing, double dealing, self serving con people. Remember these are the same folks who put Madoff in prison for running a Ponzi scheme. Now that's Balls. Since they preside over the largest Ponzi scheme ever foisted on humanity. And Liberals have been at the reins as often as Republicans. Wake up Brahman, you're being sold a bill of goods.
fast facts from bloombergTV, currently 42 billionaires/millionaires are supportive of the right wing presidential candidates vs 30 for obama. I wonder how many obama supporters in the middle class can afford $35000/plate dinners. Any news yet on obamas $5 raffle ticket sales?
ritl1954... Why not give us a comparison number between between government funded and privately funded projects such as.... Research grants in education, medical and technology, scholarships and grants for continuing education? How about funding for local hospitals, clinics, libraries and public schools? I am sure that the list is very long. I wonder who is more efficient in providing funds, private controlled funding or government controlled funding?
of course this doesn't pass the smell test and should be illegal, but like they pointed out he was the only one of the candidates that had to do this to keep his emails private. I don't doubt for a second that any of the other candidates or obama himself wouldn't have done this if they were faced with their records becoming public.
What the article carefully omits is the fact that Democratic governors of Mass. have done the same thing. Biased much?
Let's see: a newspaper account of Obama's birth, but the hospital has no record of his mother ever being a patient. A Social Security number from a State he never lived in. No cause for worry here.
While what Mittens has done isn't illegal, it certainly speaks volumes ... further, Mittens always demands of others what he himself is too much of a coward to do ... such as demanding his opponents release their income tax returns but refuses to do so himself.
l'm thinking that this isn't ballsy as much as it is hypocrisy. Yup, Mittens is a humongous hypocrite.
Romneygate:
Mitt Romney's Governorship Missing hard-drives Huhhh?
Blogo just got 15 yrs in Illinois State after his corruption trial.
Aren't these records public property ?
Meaning the people's records of their State Government ?
So,
It was " legal " to discard State Government Records, Huh?
Does anyone smell a "Rat" around here now?
It is called Corruption, simple as that.
vfeinstein;
What do you call an individual adjusted federal income of $1.7 million on a salary of $160,000? This from a man who speaks constantly of the rich robbing the poor. These were the numbers posted by Mr. Obama on his 2010 tax return. He seemed so proud of the fact that he wrote a check for $793 to pay his taxes. $793?!? I made far less and paid far more than $793. Does that pass the smell test for you? Seems a bit hypocritical from where I'm standing. Think you could post numbers that far beyond your W-2 reported salary and not get a visit from the IRS? There is no politician alive today that passes the "smell test". ALL dirty, ALL the time. It is that simple.
this is the same fox news that said it was bad to kill bin laden(the guy who killed hundreds of people and ruined many families).
Mitt must of got the word to start his cover up now, before the dems even know he's the man thats going to be running for the repubs. Well isn't it beautiful that he pays a good hundred thousand dollars more to have new comps put in? Its not his money and he does have to pay for the cover up. But really has there been a repub in office since Nixon that wouldn't be in prison right now? Reagan, Busch and Dubya should all be in prison for one thing or another if not many things and just about everything. Then if another one is elected, they won't be any different and they just begun to take all our freedom and money away from us and a new one will just pick up where the other ones left off. I would have to think that out of all of them Dubya did the best job for them as far as taking freedom and money away from the hard working people, but he's just shameless.
American... just because something is legal, does not make it right, morally or ethically. The congressmen making millions on insider trading wasn't illegal, but it sure as he** was WRONG! Now state employees have access to private individuals information.... that reeks of Big Government many are so opposed to... oh yeah that's right... unless it's your guy, then it's fine...
We have NEVER SEEN any of Obama's "records", so I think it was smart of Romney or whoever to do this.
By definition this is "fair".
The Obama records which have not been released include;Passport records, Obama kindergarten records, Punahou School records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, University of Chicago scholarly articles, Illinois State Bar Association records, Illinois State Senate records/schedules(said to be lost), Medical records, Obama/Dunham marriage license, Obama/Dunham divorce documents, Soetoro/Dunham marriage license, Adoption records and of course the long-form Certificate of Live Birth.
Isn't that because Dubya's records weren't released and the ones that were, weren't true. Dubya is riding around half drunk on a boat in the Coast Guard and takes a few pictures next to a fighter jet and you think he was in the Air Force? Sure he was and he served in Veit Nam also. Maybe when he was flying the jet he couldn't find Veit Nam? Its probably a very common error most jet fighter pilots make, no? So its really not Obama records that are the first ones that didn't surface, now is it?
The Presidential Race for US President is a Smear Campaign by both sides.
This will be the Nastiest Election ever.
Romney? He's just like the other guys, only smarter. Obama is smarter as well, since no one can find his school grades from Harvard, how he got into this School, financing, where is his birth certificate, who was his original Father, all the trips his mother took over seas, the men she had relationships with, who truly adopted him, and throwing O back to his grandparents from his Mother's side, living in Hawaii. Was he born in Hawaii, Indonesia, Kenya, or What?
O went to a Madras school. What defined Religion is he.
Romney is Mormon; Mormons have strict Ethics, Morals, no drinking, no smoking, healthy lifestyle, whatever.
Is Romney a "Crook".
All Politicians are Crooks! It's a matter of who is the least of the Crooks to take over the White House.
Crooked Politicians get elected; as did ex Pres. Bill Clinton, Nixon. So what's the beef about--It's about Leadership, getting this country back into the original Ideology of a Free Market, granted Freedoms, and being able to purchase one's own Health Care. No intrusion in American lives, less Government looking into how clean my house is, is.
Nicodemus1946,
You obviously missed the point of my post ... perhaps re-reading it will clarify things for you. The only thing I will say regarding it is that Mittens is of the "do as I say, not as I do" school of thought.
However, in answer to your post, you tell me if there is anyone who has the means to do so and doesn't exploit the numerous loopholes that we mere mortals don't have the means to exploit. But, if the loopholes were closed then even those with the means will need to pay what they should be paying ... and I don't care who it is.
J.Scott-3677762, you are suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
Left many comments collapsed for being off-topic.
Comment # 2 deleted, political derail.
the liberal "this is the same fox news that said it was bad to kill bin laden(the guy who killed hundreds of people and ruined many families)."
I presume the 'source' for your comment is your fertile imagination, or possibly msnbc.
Why didn't MSNBC give the same attention to the unexposed records which would show how much legal work Obama did for his convicted-felon-buddy, Tony Rezko?
How about Obama's school transcripts, and an account of what he was like as a teenager from one of his friends in Hawaii? Why can't we get that?
Or perhaps Michele Obama's school records...?
Oldman, get some eyeglasses you'll see better.
Willing sniper:
You are seriously going to use President Obama's kindergarten records to support your argument? You can win it by simply stating that Romney has no legal obligation not to erase the records. The problem is with the policy, not any individual exercising it. Why not save your attacks on Obama for an issue that actually concerns Obama?
I have a relative who works high up in State Gov't. The problem with haed drives is even if you think you have erased private info, there is someone who can pull it back up again. Therefore, No private info should be loaded onto the system, which is impossible considering employee records and records from many non-employees (people who applied for a job but didn't get it) are on those hard drives. Many States have programs for employees to buy the computer they work with or just the hard drive, to protect the employee. Let's face it, this is the world we live in. A world where there is always people trying to steal other people's info. The average employee should have some control over their privacy and to not allow identity theft.
This is just another non-story the liberal media is pandering to. They know this is the way it is, but they have to put a slant on it. If you look into it you will find missing digital footprints in every facit of Gov't, including the Whitehouse. It doesn't matter which party is in control.
Is everything on Obama's BlackBerry public info?
No?
So then who cares about Romney's stuff other than the leftwingers and the media (is saying leftwinger and media being redundant)?
It's probably time that they use their own computers instead of Gov't ones. Then the issue of ownership goes away completely.
After all, every decision they made is public record. You can judge people best by what they do, not what they say.
So private conversations do not worry me. And there is no way that you will ever get REAL people giving REAL opinions to leaders if it is public record. Some things are best left private.
This guy is a comedian. Fox viewers are more misinformed than the general public and to go farther they are less informed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-less-informed-people-fairleigh-dickinson_n_1106305.html
I know, Huffington Post, to those on the right, is liberal but so is every other media source that does not write what those on the right don't want to hear......the truth.
Now about the article. Certainly everything Romney and his staff may have done could have been within the law but so is cheating on your spouse. Just because there's no present law against it does not make it morally right. If they had nothing to hide...why destroy the records. If they are proud of their record in office....let everyone know how it was done.
It's not at all surprising that the
M oronic
S cum
N uzzling
B arack's
C olon
would run yet another baseless hit piece on a Republican candidate all the while ignoring the fact that the Obama Administration has suddenly sealed the records of the court case concerning the Border Agent that was murdered in connection with the Fast and Furious scandal.
Or that all of the officials that were RUNNING the Fast and Furious Program have been given promotions and/or cushy assignments while those that blew the whistle have faced banishment, isolation, and retaliation.
In fact, it isn't even known WHO ordered the records sealed and for WHAT REASONS because the Obama Administration has sealed THOSE RECORDS, as well.
Okay, so this article has to be a joke (or it was written by Romney's campaign staff). If this is the worst dirt they can dig up, Romney must be about as squeeky clean as a politician can be...
Larry-2260635 " 'Other polls show that FOX viewers are better educated than the general public'. This guy is a comedian. Fox viewers are more misinformed than the general public and to go farther they are less informed.
Fox viewers = 38% with a college degree.
General Public = 29% with a college degree.
MSNBC viewers = 31% with a college degree.
Like I said - Any poll can be slanted based on the questions asked.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe you've been listening to the wrong networks.
missingnutsack--yes, you have to pass a bill to find out what is in it.
Please go back to American Government 101. A bill is proposed--every member of the House has the option to make changes or additions while it is being argued about. Only once the bill is passed is it in it's final form so that one knows everything that is in it.
It is not a law--it's a "bill." This is why bills don't become laws right away--sometimes, somebody sneaks something into it just before the vote. It then goes to the Senate--which can accept it as is, reject it as is, or make changes to it and pass that. If they make changes, it goes back to the House which can then vote on what is now a "bill." At that point, yes, everyone knows what is in it.
If the Senate passes the version that the House passed without making changes, it then goes to the president who either signs it (it is a law) or vetoes it. If the Senate makes changes and the House votes on the new version and passes it, it then goes to the president who either signs it or vetoes it. If the House doesn't pass the Senate version--then it goes into reconciliation, where the House and Senate try to hammer out a version that works for both houses. That version is then voted on--if it fails one house, it is dead. If it passes both houses, it goes on to the president who signs it or vetoes it.
If the president vetoes it, it then goes back to the Congress, which can over-ride the veto with a 2/3 majority, and it becomes law.
Seriously--we all learned this back in high school. Well, those of us who passed American Government 101 learned it. I had the great good fortune of learning it twice, because back in the Stone Ages, we had to take a class called "Communism and Democracy" (in which the first thing we learned was that communism was an economic system that was opposed to capitalism, and that democracy was a governmental system which was extremely close to socialism on a scale of governmental systems from the least free--absolute monarchy--to the most free--anarchy). I remember coming away from "Communism and Democracy" with the clear idea that communism looks great on paper, and probably works well on a very small scale (a tiny agricultural community or worker-owned factory) but borks when on anything larger than a very local scale; I also learned that democracy (well, in the US, we have representative democracy which is closer to a republic) is very messy and has a bad tendency to let capitalism run amok (the banking crisis and housing crisis prove that). So, yes, I learned to like entrepreneurship and capitalism, but also learned to be wary of unbridled capitalism.
However, I did learn for a fact that the House has to pass a bill before one finds out what that bill is going to have in it. Wouldn't it be nice if those who watch Fox News actually understood how the legislative branch works?
Tom S,
You have no idea what you are talking about. Computers in 2006 were running either SATA drives or IDE and you can still use them today. Secondly the average life of a hard drive is 3.5 years and they last longer if they are left on not off.
I have been working in Information Technology since 1982 and your technical information is flawed. Most companies started backing up hard drives before the Y2K scare but I am sure your not old enough to remember that. I have worked for the Federal Government for 7 years during the time in question, I also worked for General Electric for 20 years. So unlike you I do know what I am talking about. As a matter of fact I am using a computer with a 5 year old hard drive right now.
The information provided by Tom S is totally incorrect.
Nickodumass,
You must have gotten your news on Obama's tax returns from Fox News. First of all the President of the United States makes more than 160,000.00 a year.
The true facts of Obama's tax returns:
Obama reported $1,795,614 of total income, which consists mostly of his salary as president ($395,188) and proceeds from the sale of his books ($1,382,889). Obama also itemized his deductions, reporting deductions for state income taxes, property taxes, mortgage interest and charity. The Obamas paid federal income taxes of $416,734, roughly 23% of their total income. Obama also contributed to the maximum to a pre-tax retirement plan based his self-employed book proceeds.
vfeinstein - Your post no. 1.64 sounds more like a description of your King Hussein than it does "Mittens". Using derogatory nicknames isn't very pleasant is it? I prefer "Governor Romney" and "President Obama".
I see nothing weird here. If I could have purchased the hard drive or computer from my old place of work I would have done so. Why? Because sometimes friends or family send an email to your work with things you want to remember or don't want someone else to see. Copies of medical bills, sonagram with first grandchild, checking number for kids at college, etc.
The article says the records are missing and also says they were destroyed, which is it? Paper records are destroyed by Gov't's all the time. They are researched to see if there is pertinent info and if there is it gets digitally logged. There are specific laws for this, I know because this is what my wife does for State Gov't. There are billions of emails that don't have any info in them that should be archived. Should we save a little peice. There are also records that have private people's private info on them. After so much time they get destroyed. How many of you exchange emails from work that have nothing to do with work? Most people do this, should they all be saved? This is ridiculous!! The media again is blowing this out of proportion as always. This happens in all forms of Gov't, and I guarantee there are emails that the President and all Congressmen and Senators from both parties have had destroyed. And rightfully so! I don't care if they goof around with their peers, I don't care if Little Johnny or Maxine emails are destroyed. Geez! People, get a grip!!
Roy Wilson - 336103
Source ????????????????
or did you just make that up?
Jeanette-767450,
Buying your hard drive from a private company is an completely different affair than a elected official tyring to hide information. I don't think many companies would allow you to buy your hard drive but even if they did they probably backed it up and have all your information freely available to them.
The best advice I can give anyone is never use your companies computers to do anything you don't want them to see or know about. The backups that most companies use today enable them to take the data off your old hard drive and put it on any computer they want. Email Servers also keep a copy of all your emails and those servers are backed up as well.
Rob-Seattle,
The reason Roy didn't post a link to that study is for the very reason you stated, he made it up!
Bean at home,
Very well written, and informative. I read it thinking here is a sensible person trying to teach others that are lacking in their education. You explained the process simply so people could understand. Bravo! I thought this is a person who puts substance over foolishment, right up until I read the last sentence and that sentence cheapened the whole experience. Sorry!
http://www.wqub.org/media/NPR%20Profile%20stats%202009/NPR%20demographics.pdf
"NPR's audience is extraordinarily well educated. Nearly 65% of all listeners have a bachelor's degree, compared to only a quarter of the U.S. population."
FROSTY: You are such a Cynic, which is a proof of what a rotten person you are, projecting on All the Others because you believe you are The One. Get over your pitiful self-aggrandizement. There are good and bad everywhere. Just because you don't agree with them makes them bad? TEABAGGER:, so you think Ron Paul and the Tea Party office holders and backers are Corrupt too? You both need to get your Heads and Heart examined, to see if you have them or if they are filled with Bile.
Notice that everything Romney's associates did was LEGAL. Did anybody Understand that or Want to try to understand that? How many companies change their computers for new ones every now and then? I know of Libraries and Companies that do that !! Don't you and doesn't this "investigate reporter? (read Dirt Digger or Investigator). I'm not a fan of Sarah Palin, but CNN sent a crew to examine a huge cache of emails of hers in Alaska, and when the lead investigator reported to Cooper Anderson, he said that the image of Palin was of a person sincerely trying to be a good public servant and a compassionate person, the person, he said, that they had tried to find in 2008. Cooper Anderson had a stoney face and ended the presentation, obviously Not Pleased. "How terrible ! No DIRT. Even Good for Palin! How Aweful !" That's how these scumbaggers and muckrakers are. Let us try to examine things objectively to try to discover reality, not using vulgar jokers like George Carlin as "illuminators". Dr. Martin Luther King once wrote, "For Most people, there is nothing more Disagreeable than having to Think" (added emphasis mine) !!! AMEN !
Pffft. It's an election year, MSNBC is the Obama promotion network so anything that can be used against his competition is fair game. Fox is the anti-Obama network so ditto re the articles floated. I go to other sites and the boldly liberal and conservative sites. Interesting how stories come to light when you read both sides and the middle. Obama is as transparent as mud, he broke campaign promises before he was even elected and the transparency, read the bill before it gets legislated promise seems to have evaporated.
Romney, and any politican with half a brain will be CYA forever. Amusing how many politicans have gotten caught literally with their pants down. In the internet age anyone who doesn't cover their butts is going to go down in flames (Weiner comes to mind) As to Obama's hidden information, that's interesting. I wish the media had shown a spotlight on him during the elections, they were too in love with the Obama brand for any real investigations, in fact they refused to use his middle name because, well, because it was a mite close to the other Hussein fellow.
i ALWAY HATE IT WHEN THE "COMMUNITY COLLAPSES" COMMENTS. IT'S CALLED CENSORSHIP. THE ONLY TIME I APPROVE IT IS IF THERE IS BLATANT VULGARITY OR STRIDENT HATE LANGUAGE AND INSULTS. Let's not be guilty of that. Respond to statements you think are wrong using your Brain and not just thumbing down or asking the People who Run the Comment Page to chop somebody. That's anti-democratic.
Lots of comments here bashing and hanging MSNBC by its thumbs. But if you read the article, twice, if necessary, the info came from Reuters, the Associated Press and the Boston Globe. I rather doubt Microsoft or NBC owns any of them.
Sooo, what you're saying is that MSNBC is cobbling info together and calling it an investigative piece?
Rob- Seattle "Roy Wilson - 336103 Source ????????????????"
http://www.quora.com/Fox-News-cable-network/What-are-the-demographics-of-Fox-News-viewers
Records are records, electronic or otherwise. This definitely stinks!! If these were medical or birth records, the wingnuts from the far right would be screaming that there were citizenship issues or mental or physical health issues that had direct bearing on his fitness for office. I suppose Romney figures that there wouldn't be loopholes in the laws if "God" didn't want him to take advantage of them.
Yes....the lesson of Watergate is a simple one.....don't get caught.....this is the country we have chosen for ourselves over the last 50 years....and don't think the lefties don't do the same thing. This is why things have to change DRASTICALLY in this country....and soon....
Nixon another shining example of republican Conservatism at it's best....
Nice logo there Frank. You show how polarizing things really gets things accomplished in Washington.
Is that Barney Frank -669022 ?? Sup Frank, the millions of homeowners want thier houses back.
back on subject - transparency in gov't LOL just like ObamaCare was?? Lets pass this then read it. Wonder how that 1099 part got into a healthcare bill.
makes you go hummmm
Yes Frank, I like your logo better than mine.
@Randy - If was available online for everyone to read. The Repugs complained that it is too long, longer than a harry potter book, so they couldn't read it. I don't blame them, most of them don't even have college degrees.
I guess it was also too long for pelosi to read before she voted for it.
I like Florida's logo better shows some artisic creativity and doesn't show blind hatred like Franks.
Also the problem is the Hospital not Insurance Companies but when Big Brother kills the millions of health insurance Jobs in 2014 and you get to have ONE option a $2,000 deductible gov't plan I hope you enjoy it.
notice the relationship between Florida and Frank............. brothers, sisters or the same person??? lol
Realize that both parties leave a lot to desire, both have poor examples of poor morals and ethics and posting hate is just a reflection of the Poster's intelligence (or lack of).
I am a conservative and I have an issue with how Romney handled this and do not care if one party did it also- the article is about Romney.
have a good week.
I don't think Romney did anything wrong. He stayed within the law, computers get updated every 2 or less years, if I could get my computer home I would. They auction ours off when they get replaced, and you can purchase them. But why no back up server? I just think that we need to stick to facts, policy, and the future of our country not this petty crap.
usa1967 - get the quote correct knucklehead.
"we have to pass the bill so that YOU (emphasis added) can find out what is in it away from the fog of controversy." She never said she did not read the bill. Did you? Did you read it before it was PASSED by Congress? Too long for your youtube 10 second attention span? I think it is awsome that there is a tax on the rich "hidden" in the bill. How is that any different than "hidden bridges to nowhere" or other BS the Repubs push through? How about and unrelated oil pipline grafted onto a bill to extend middle-class tax cuts just to mess with President Obama? The Repubs NEVER act in good faith and if they had to operate in the real business world nobody would trust them to do a business deal. How can you trust them? Middle-class- keep your hand on your wallet when the Repubs start talking any fiscal policy!!
I'm thinking that its this petty crap that got this country into the mess its in right now. Then as far as congress having college educations, nope I can't say that many of them do. Then if you really want to look at that, you can actually say that there have been some presidents that didn't have college educations either. Dubya and Reagan are a couple of examples. Reagan was Bush Srs. dummy in office and just going through the motions of a president as was Dubya, Cheney's dummy. Bush Sr. was running the office for Cheney but Cheney made sure Dubya follwed trough for daddy. I won't vote for any of these repubs and I even doubt I'll vote repub again in my lifetime. They need to restructure their entire party from the ground up for them to have anykind of respectability to hold office again.
I don't care about any of this as far as missing hard drives. He stated he supports the 2nd Amendment but votes for banning assault rifles in 1994. You can't have your cake and eat it too. He is full of crap and will never get my vote.
There's easier ways to get rid of data and emails. Fdisk & format the hard drives and re-install the operating system. There are programs that write over the disk several times to make almost anything unrecoverable. They wanted these for backup on someone or something they knew about. Trust me, if Mitt can profit from the data resurfacing in the primary it will "Majically" re-appear. Hey, I keep old work emails just in case my boss questions something I did 5 years ago. I can go back and pull up the email and say it's what you told me to do.
Just like those Bush tax cuts lets do some math
Top rate 39.6 vs 35% = 12% cut
Lowest rate 15% vs 10% = 33% cut
Housing mess -- Barney Frank , Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Greggory Meeks & Aurtur Davis are the main players who from 2001-2005 supported Freddie and Fannie and put a blind eye to the problems the GSE could and would put on this economy.
youtube.com/watch?v=-48RA304IBk
It took 15 years of giving out money to anyone who could fog a mirror for the housing mess to finally pop with the DEMs saying everything is all right. Iam sure it will take time to fix.
Bush's Dot-Com recession lost 78% of the Nasdaq value and 5 Trillion dollars down the drain and we came out of that in 2 years. Obama took over being president Jan 21st 2009 and the bottom was March 2009 and after nearly 3 years his failed policies haven't done very much besides add 4.43 Trillion in more debt.
Are the REPs blameless no, is Bush perfect no , are the DEMs even worse yes
Obama had 2yrs and blew it.
O = Epic Fail
Randy840072
You need to look up your information on President Obama before saying he has done worse than Bush. number one he did get us out of the recession, not much but out. National jobs unemployment lover Oct. and Nov. was down to 8.something don't remember what the something was. There are still some states that are hard hit on employment. He has also created some jobs. He has had to fight the party of no the whole way. They have blocked the bills he has sent to them or just tabled them, they are the ones saying they did it. Now that it is getting into an election year, they are letting a few crumbs pass but not with out adding some things the people do not want. I use to vote republican but no more. Now I don't belong to any party. But I would like to see some of Obama's ideas put into action , I think they are good. People or some here have brought up his birth certificate again. They did send his hospital birth certificate, not good enough for them then they sent one from the state of Hawaii, but they have a law there not to send out the long one. The Governor of Hawaii,did finally make them send the long one and so what did the republicans say. They said it was forgery. So no matter what is done they will down it. Need to get off that kick and start working with our President. The ones running for nomination for president are tearing each other apart, This is going to be a bad election year mud all over the place. Why do they have to spread hate?Why can't they get up there and give their plans for the problems we have ? Then no matter who gets the office work with them. I do not like the Tea Party as one they spread to much hate. two I believe a woman should have the choice weather to have a baby or not, it is their body. This doesn't mean I believe in abortions as I do not, but I think it is their choice not mine. The other reason I don't like the party is because of Piland. I got a lot of information when she was McCains running mate. 1. Alaska pipe line, looked up records there the pipe line was rusting out and tundra being killed. she got money from the oil company and didn't fix the pipe line instead she gave some of it to the people in Alaska, you can find out the condition of the pipe line by going to www.Alaskapipe line , then did through their records. You can also go to the Alaska Daily news and get a lot of information on her along with her husband. in back articles. There was also information from extended family member that she had a relationship with her husbands partner and that is why they broke the partnership and he had it swept under the rug. Third she didn't finish out her term as with all the news she had out on her during the year of going with McCain she went for the money in the speaking engagements, and books written, then this Tea Party, name in news more. Her daughter Bristol two weeks after having the baby I heard her talk on the TV saying teens need to use contra sceptics then a few weeks later after talking to her mother she came out with the abstinence, started talking to teens and made enough money to buy her home in Arizona. You can look up these things doesn't really matter to me. But that is why would never vote for anyone belonging to that party, some may truly believe what they are saying, but I wouldn't take a chance on it. Have a good day .They have good and bad in all party's. All loop holes in taxes needs to be closed. Everyone should pay their fair share of taxes. The owner of a business shouldn't pay less taxes than their employee's and take all pork out of the bills. The other thing is they should pay back SS they money they used from there for the pork bills that they put IOU's in to cover the money.
Paying back the SS IOU should be a first priority instead of trying to get out of paying for a debt that is owed. Why should our lawmakers care since they do not rely on SS to supplement their retirement. They should be on the same system as the Civil Service employees and term limits of 2 just like the President. This would end all of this ruckus in DC.
Interesting article MSNBC put up to read about Governor Romney's decision to replace the hard drives. I believe the commenters section gives a snapshot of the current political climate from the various voters viewpoints.
Rob-3476421, you made a good point.
Yes like sensitive information he may want to keep buried along with Robert Lichfield who was on Governor Romney's Utah State Finance Committee as Co-Chair of the committee. When the media turned their attention to one of his top fundraisers Lichfield, during the 2007 presidential campaign, Governor Romney distanced himself publically from their close association. I'm certain there's a lot of information on those hard drives about the late Lichfield, his cronies and who they bought into public office that would disturb the public deeply. Do you want rich child abusers, child molesters and child torturers who made millions on their so-called "specialty schools" for adolecents and teens putting people into public office? That's exactly what Robert Lichfield did while serving on Governor Romney's finance committee.
I question any public servant who's close associates and fund-raisers make their fortunes by dupeing parents out of millions of dollars while torturing their children and calling it re-programming. Many many people were paid off to keep these "specialty schools" open for business and some were public servants and government officials. Imagine what's in the hard drives emails about this subject? Definitely these are things that Governor Romney and other Utah State officials would work hard to keep out of the public's eye.
As much as he may try and distance himself from his former connections with Lichfield and his organization WWASPS, there's still truth to be found, do a search on WWASPS. There's even a Romney Lichfield blog spot on the subject. Here's a quote from their site;
Lichfield and family big donors Robert Lichfield, a La Verkin entrepreneur, founded the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools. The organization has been affiliated with a number of schools for troubled youths, several of which schools have been closed amid allegations of abuse or neglect.
Lichfield and family members began donating heavily to Republican candidates and causes in 2001. In the 2002 and 2004 elections, a Salt Lake Tribune investigation found more than $1 million in contributions from family members and business associates.
Labels: caica, campaign, child abuse, complaint, isabelle zehnder, mitt romney, robert lichfield, salt lake city tribune, wwasps
Thursday, September 6, 2007
UPDATE: Romney Forced to Fire 2nd Crucial Campaign Backer
Big scoop coming from Radar: Mitt Romney, just days after ousting disgraced Sen. Larry Craig from his Presidential campaign, has had to fire another well-connected state campaign organizer due to tawdry dealings — this time involving abuse and fraud toward troubled teens.
“Mitt Romney has asked his Utah finance committee co-chair, Robert Lichfield, who is affiliated with a controversial network of schools for troubled teens and has been dogged by allegations of abuse and fraud, to step down,” according to Radar’s report.
Lichfield is Utah’s largest political donor, and organized a fundraiser in February in his hometown of St. George that made nearly $300,000 for the Romney campaign. Members of the Lichfield family have donated $17,000 to Romney thus far.
But besides being rich, Lichfield was also named in a June 2007 complaint filed in federal court in Utah by the families of 133 children who allege kids under his supervision ”were subjected to physical, sexual, and emotional abuse.”
Radar notes that one plaintiff, Chase Wood, “claims he was fondled, forced to eat his own vomit, and locked in a dog cage at the Cross Creek Center for Boys, a school that Lichfield founded in the late 1970s.”
While the allegations and lawsuits over these WWASPS programs continue so does the hurt and shame of the kids that were subjected to it. I'm close to 2 young people who went through the "re-programming process" in these so called schools and both of them are deeply scarred emotionally. One of them has dissociative disorder and severe PTSD as a result of his abduction and stay at Tranquility Bay, a former WWASPS school which was closed down due to severe child abuse.
I would never vote for or support any public official that has in any way benefitted from the profits of this corrupt organization that's done too much harm to so many people. That includes Governor Romney as squeaky clean as he seems there's no way around who raises funds for him and who he associates with. They can erase all the data they want to, some subjects will never just go away or be forgotten.
Joe 1072601
Bush graduated from Yale and Reagan was smarter than your Obama can ever even pray to be. The problem with education is that the supporters of Obama don't have any. Those with even high school diplomas got them in our liberal screwed up, non teaching education system that doesn't teach real history or the Constitution but does teach about kids having too mommies and all the poor people, and how politically correct they all should be. When you all grow a brain we wil have a chance to turn this country around.
If there was an intelligence test for the right to vote, we conservatives would have double the qualified voteres.
Too or two? What conservative K-12, home school or higher education institution did you graduate from? ORU along side Michelle? At least you could have read what you wrote before hitting the "post" button.
That is only one example of Queen Nikki's (Haley) deceit. She ran on a platform of transparency but is using private e-mail and phones to coduct state business so that it won't be on state computers/servers. The SC legislature should impeach her. She says she doesn't read local news. Wonder how she keeps up with what goes on in SC as she is constantly out of state to raise money, most of the time on SC's dime.
Torch - Not reading local papers - that's a Rethug Gov talking point as Ohio Gov Kasich said the same thing in a presser when his Senate Bill 5 was repealed by the voters in Ohio.
Thanks. I didn't know others had used this line. Wonder how many of the repuglicans use this line/
So much for his records. Now if we could only make Romney disappear.
No disappointments here !. Romney is the PERFECT DEFINITION FOR REPUBLICAN-OBSTRUCTIONIST.
Reading what I have on here, I would say the Liberal's are afraid of Romney. Almost to much so. They are definately afraid he will beat Obama in the election.
You know folks, you can tell a lot about how people rant.
Go ahead and get me collapsed for my opinion, you know you want to!
Didn't you people know that full disclosure and sunshine laws are only for the little people? (Or those not wearing magic underwear).
The test of good governance is not adherence to the letter of the law. It is doing the right thing for the right reasons. The Romney administration did the wrong thing for the wrong reasons, even if it didn't run afoul of the law.
I like that
gov't for the right reasons vote out Obama in 2012
O= epic fail
Randy, the only problem with that is, who to vote in? No good choices on either side.
Obama is going to be the unfettered Obama if re-elected. Think he's handy with the executive orders now, just wait, should that particular unhappy re-elected Obama moment occur you will see more and more power self-created and handed to the Executive branch. He's real good at creating agencies, all-powerful regulatory agencies, with one director who answers directly and only to him.
I don't like any of the candidates but will vote against Obama, his track record and ideologies are disturbing.
"But illegality is not the only test, say advocates of open government, who wonder when the public will insist that all candidates for high office do more than give lip service to transparency."
The same could be said for our current White House Occupant. Where's the transparency he promised?
"Democracy dies in secrecy" Democracy in America has died from secrecy. What's next?
On what? What are you looking for transparency on? Please don't say Solyndra or Fast and furious. republicans have received all information they have asked for. It really eats you up that a black guy lives in the white house doesn't it.
We already insist our candidate for high office do a lot of things. And they all promise to do them, right up until the day after the election. I think the pertinent question is, "When will candidates for high office be held accountable for paying mere lip service to any issue?"
funnystuff - only seven posts in and you feel the need to bring race into the discussion. How sad.
Hey, the race card is used when all else fails. Saul Alinsky.
all politicians stink. the business makes crooks out of semi crooks. we need people in office who are not politicians but patriots. elect H cain.
Cain is a liar too.
Cain quit running. So stop fighting!
As an IT professional I have to say this story, while concerning, has a greater concern to me. Email is only copied to the local computer and a copy of this email rests on the mail server that franchises the email delivery. There should have been backups of every email on the mail server itself. These should be available if the delivered copies are not. If those copies dont exist then it shows forethought on the entirety of the government structure to hide public information from the public the government says it serves. I dont have any right to privacy on my corporate computer, that fact has been well adjudicated. Why are government officials afforded a safety I am not?
I was thinking the same thing. Assuming a centralized exchange server, every email going through 'the system' gets stored on a centralized server, is then backed up at some point and permanently stored. If the Commonwealth of Massachusetts isn't doing these basic things, then their entire system is corrupt.
Nope. They backed them up on their servers. They just replaced all the servers too before they left.
So they also replace their mail server, updates for everyone.
Hide things? No, no we just wanted to leave the office better than we found it...
Paul, you are either showing bias or lack of knowledge as an IT professional. Very few email systems are set up to copy email to a local computer. And to dman1115's commemt, the email server data should be backed up, but there is not a recommended backup system in existence that calls for a permanent backup. The backup media is recycled, thus the data is overwritten periodically. It is very possible there was very limited amount of disk capacity to store emails, so older emails were purged from the system. The article did mention, in a derogatory manner, that the Romney administration bought and leased new computers. The reason probably was to upgrade to newer technology and provide more disk capacity, as every successful business does.
They bought and leased new computers for the incoming Governor, Deval Patrick (D) as they (Romney Administration) was "on its way out the door." How thoughtful of them to generously take those old, full of information, computers with them and get the incoming Democrat new stuff. Really alteristic of them!!
To Randy AND tiredofsilly, You both are tragically way off! Obama with the help of all the Veterans from Iraq, retirees and anyone else with any brains at ALL WILL RE-ELECT HIM! hE GOT US OUT OF AN UNNECESSARY WAR!! He got Bib Laden. GW Bush stopped all air travel on 9/11, ONLY allowing family and friends of the bin Laden family to FLY out of the country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you HEAR ME! Wake the f--k up.
Before the IT issue of "how to do it" comes the records management issue of "what to do."
Every level of government (I believe--and I can't speak for the private sector) is required to adhere to records schedules, enacted by statute or administrative rule. Those schedules direct what to do with all records created in the process of carrying out the various functions of government, including how long to retain them.
Some records are scheduled for retention (here in Hawaii) "until no longer useful [for current operations]"; some are scheduled for permanent retention. In between are retention periods ranging from 2 to 50 years or more.
I don't know what records schedules exist in Massachusetts, but I'm sure they DO exist. What disturbs me about this story, and there are unknowns, so I'm writing this based on probabilities, not certainty, is that it is likely that the hard drives that "walked" had on them government records of several different series, to which several different record schedules would have applied.
If records of, for example, 50-year retention, "walked away" with those hard drives, and if such records were not backed up or retained in the files of the relevant government agency, then based on my experience, at the very least normal practice was not followed. More likely, laws WERE broken, but again, there are issues (such as the existence or not of back-ups in the agency after the hard drives left) unreported in the story, so one cannot know for sure.
It depends on the configuration if it was copied locally (ie... if they use POP3 it can be copied to a local drive, in Outlook, the PST file, and it is deleted from the server.) They may have had it set this way particularly to allow the removal of the hard drives at the end of the term. Also, other documents and such, either downloaded from FTP, secure intranet sites, etc... would also have been a concern, not only email correspondence. Taking the hard drives helps there as well
The previous comment about the back-up tapes being recycled is also correct. Most companies keep data backups for a very short period of time. For anyone who works in a big corporate environment, contact your IT service desk to see how long they are kept. If they won't tell you outright, call back later and say you deleted a file off your network share two weeks ago and you need it retrieved. If they can't, you know they recycle the tapes less than every two weeks.
It sounds to me like the governor's office paid for their own outside IT support and it wasn't provided by state services. One way to cut down on things like this happening would be to have one overlapping government IT service that provides these things to all levels of government. This way, from the White House down to city governments, you would have one place to contact with judges orders, FOIA's or warrants. Of course, it would have to go through someone at some point to be redacted, but that can be built into the process.
Most government installations I've dealt with had a backup scenario that included long-term, off-site backups. At the end of every month, a second backup would be performed and sent off-site. Those tapes were typically held for at least a year.
This is rediculous. What Rommney did was fine and legal. Give me a break. Just like there are to many lawyers there are TOO MANY REPORTERS. Get a life.
A lot of things politicans do is legal, but "fine", that I wouldn't agree with.
BTW, you can never have enough reporters.
Yes we should definitely get rid of all the reporters and shut down those stupid news shows. Politicians don't need all these distractions because we elected them so they are obviously honest and need no one looking over their shoulders.
There aren't enough GOOD reporters, and none work for MSNB:C. And so The Leftist onslaught begins.
Then P Walker... Why are you reading it? Why are you commenting?
Ahh, but commenting is not being a journalist. Reading the agenda-driven, editorial bias that pretends to be journalistic news is entertaining, if taken with a large amount of salt.
One day morality will trump legality. What the hell am I thinking? These are politicians. They will scuttle both given a chance.
Stop believing any of these podunks....they're all corrupt, and will do anything to hide info. Legal or otherwise.
Is this different than Odumbo's records since birth? Where's his stuff? Anything?
Bah Bye Barry!
I don't recall Obama destroying his political e-mails. Do you?
Niether have I seen any of the GOP cabdidates' grade-school report cards...is there a cover-up going on there?
You know, Dave, Pres. Barak Obama wrote an autobiography in 1995....(16 years ago!) I read it before I even knew who he was, and it was a good book.
It's called "Dreams from my Father". The details of his birth and childhood are in the book. He was born in Hawaii, lived in Kansas and Texas and only visited Kenya as a young man......I strongly suggest that anyone who claims to be a "birther", to read it....if for no other reason than to avoid sounding ignorant. Seriously, dude.
Wherever you're going, I doubt he'll miss you.
The Big O administration has pushed back at every FOIA request ever given. They are pushing as we post.
How would you know if he destroyed any emails or not? Did you read the article?
That's because he HAD no political e-mail to destroy. Remember.... He was a "Community Organizer" before he was elected to the Senate, and then he was there for only two years, (in name only, as he was too busy writing his "Memoir" to be bothered by the work he was sent to Washington to do), so what e-mail would he have had to destroy in the first place?
He would have been better served if he'd destroyed his connections to Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, and the New Black Panthers...... But then, MSNBC and the rest of THOSE crooks never really tried to vet him in the public spotlight like they should have. But they're gonna do their best to marginalize whitchever crook the Right manages to put up. I say Hang 'em all for Treason, and hold new elections!
He was a state senator before he was elected to Congress. In Illinois they have similar laws which allows them to skirt open record laws.
Lets see...My personal records from my childhood...
Report cards...Don't have a single one
School Records, well I went to a private school until the 8th Grade, it is now closed, I know they did not provide records to my public High school except that I had graduated on such and such date. My High School no longer exists, it was moved and renamed, I would be surprised if they had anything decades later. College Transcripts, OK I assume they are buried deep by now, but with a lot of effort you could probably find them. FYI--Summa Cum Laude, Honors, Multiple Degrees undergrad and a Grad Degree. Summa Cum Laude. Articals I wrote or were written about me in the campus paper--I tried to get some but they said they did not keep them that old, but maybe the University Archive would have them.
Birth Certificate...Lost to the ages, Replacement says I was born two days after I actually was born (Based on the cards my mom kept in my baby book that came with flowers) Of course I have not seen that Baby book in decades, Mom is gone so I have no idea where it is. Maybe it was lost in the hurricane in 1989.
I do have a couple baby toys of mine, an essay I wrote in the third grade and some national award winning ones from High School somewhere...Uh I think i do. Hardly any photos though, mostly those came from my aunt and have my cousins in them with me.
Ah well
the Birthers are coming...the birthers are coming!
Was I adopted? There is a grave stone with my unnamed twin supposedly below it, died at birth. Hmmm...or was it a twin? Maybe I was stolen to replace that child!
The Conspiracy grows....
Maybe I was born a poor Black child...uh no...that was Steve Martin in "The Jerk"
Oh the unknowns....can I still be President?
Do I want to be...nah...I hear the house is drafty..and the job does not pay all that well
And you have to deal with Right Wing A hoes too much
I'll pass ...even if just to stay off the birthers radar!
Yea, Dave...and thank you Pam...you are right on.
Thank you Frankly True for my first giggle of the morning.
OK folks...During Congressional hearings on the subject...The Energy Department stated that the Solyandra loan applications were not only filed during the Bush Administration, but had surged toward completion BEFORE Pres. Obama took office in 2009. The March 2009 loan had already been approved by prior administration, and was upheld by incumbant.
Can't make this stuff up, especially since anyone can google this data. Aside from THAT...I supported Pres. Bush on this decision. It didn't work out too well, but I'm four square against throwing the baby out with the bath water, and I still feel like Solyandra is worthy from a research stand point.
You know Pam, I'm gonna write a book about how I was born on Mars and flew to earth in a flying egg.
If I write it, you'll believe it without any proof, right?
Be careful before you start calling others ignorant.
Only people from Ork use flying eggs, you are clearly a liar.
Not sure what proof you are refering to, machinehead.
Proof of when the book was written...? (copyright text upholds publish date)...Proof it was written by Obama? (Well, his picture IS on the cover....OK maybe it wasn't him) Proof that he is clairvoyant and knew (in 1996) that we would elect him as President? (Nah, I don't think he's clairvoyant...but the crazy lady in 2B might be.)
What proof are you questioning, precisely? Awww c'mon, can't be his origin of birth...you honestly think that the GOP would have let that slide? I mean, he was vetted, right?
FYI....Ignorant means quite literally, not informed....not out of stupidity, but lack of information. However, I get the impression that NO amount of information or documentation is going to make a bit of difference to you. I'm not here to convince you of anything, whether you choose to inform yourself is your business. I make my comments just like everyone else, and it is what it is.
OMT...by your own assessment, no book that I read is going to be factual, because I have no proof? Guess I might as well take my Bible and toss it out the window...I mean what's the point. I have no proof anything in there is true, right? (seriously?)
So you can keep humping my leg if you like, but don't feel bad if another poster hits you with a rolled up newspaper.
We are now at the point that NO ONE can have a CONFIDENTIAL CONVERSATION with anyone. That means that we will never be able to consider the pros and cons of any subject, or discuss "what if" situations. I am not willing to give up my privacy. I want to have confidential conversations with friends and business associates without it being on record. If all communications have to be opened to the public, everyone will worry about being PC and not being honest!!! I don't care if the computers belonged to the state, the thoughts and ideas did not. Ask yourself this serious questions. "Would I want every thought, every jesture, every idea, every emotional response that I have ever had in my life to be common knowledge?" "Do I want eveyone to know everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, about me?" If you are honest, you will answer, "No!" If you answer "Yes," you are a liar and/or a fool.
retired:
These were Work Emails on Work computers. These Work computers were to be used as an Elected Public official. Public officials should expect less privacy than those in the Private sector. Notice the terms Public and Private in both the sectors and the description of the job classification are spelled the same. That is because they are the same words. The public sector has more accountability and less privacy because they are the PUBLIC sector.
I will answer your question honestly. No. That is why I do not work as a public servant, and sell my services in the private sector. No logical connection exists between your argument and the question you ask.
Regardless, he broke no laws. I personally think laws should be in place to hold public servants accountable, but it is an intelligent strategic move on Romney's part.
Hey Liberals, where is the complaints for the records of Solyndra and The Fast and Furious debacle ?
Your god Obama is trying to hide everything about these two things.
Dave, I beleive the investigating commissions have all that information. It wasn't deleted from computers purchased fro the government.
Last I checked the Fast and Furious debacle was in front of a congressional hearing!!!
Last I knew, this program was implimented by George W. Bush...Pres. Obama followed through.
You demonstrate how little you know Pam. But you're doing an excellent job with the sycophant talking points.
Holder and company have sealed the record on the death of Brian Terry. Why would they do that?
"Last I knew, this program was implimented by George W. Bush..."
Awesome, I knew someone would work Bush into this. STANDING O
Sorry Pam, but Bush did not implement the program. In fact, he recommended that it not be implemented.
This fast and furious thing is so stupid. Do any of you think, assume, believe that every single operation the United States have been engaged in since the Rev. War has worked and no one died during the operations.
On Fast & Furious records
So much for the cain the records w=have not been given over.
As far as the beginning of the program, it:
George Bush was president in 2006 and the program was through the Dept of Justice under his administration.
Simple facts, you may not like them buckeye nut, but they are facts.
Frankly,
Why wouldn't I like it? I personally don't give a flying fu.k who implemented the program. I only care who fu.ked it up.
I just think it's really cool how you worked Bush into the comment like a good little democrat.
I agree. But The real point is that it will not make any difference who put the program in place when the guns are used against us. Neither party can justify this mess. It was dumb when it was started and it is still dumb, years later.
As to the hard drives, the topic in this area: Where are the records of the national health care bill and inside deals that created it ? Who really wrote it, and when ? Both parties play fast and loose with information and the lack of it. The nedia cares more about breaking news and the next story than reaearch. The average voter has neither the time or desire to look for truth.
We have a government full of lawyers, MBAs, and con men. We have a press full of cut and paste journalism, picking up amy scrap it finds on the web. We have debates that are showcases for style over content, and we have polls that are shaped to influence the voter. Inspite of all of this, it is still the best system in the world. .
Once in a great while it actually works. We get a Lincoln, a Rosevelt, a Truman, a Eisenhower, (He got us out of Korea), a Regan, or yes even a Nixon, who sees the big picture. (He got us out of Vietnam, created relations with China ect)
Ask the folks in Syria what they would rather have. So lets get on with it and deal with the business of doing the best we can. Just remember that the candidate is secondary to the iseas. Don't let the noise drown out the objective, better government, less government, smarter government.
Is there anything we can do about the monstrosity that is our "federal government?' Well, either you laugh or you cry because it is here and it is never, ever, ever going to become 'better, smarter, or less' in our lifetimes. Look at all the little DC politicians, think you can get rid of them and the aftermath of their actions? This is a generational thing, an historical thing and the people who could have stopped it before it metastasised are all dead now.
I like my logo best of all. It is not an attack on any party, as there is good and bad in both (OK I think more bad in the Republican Party...but only a touch worse)
When your very identity on these pages is an attack...you lose me. I prefer the truth no matter where it leads.
I don't hate Romney, if not for certain issues I possibly could support him, I find his erasures/hard drive buying a pathetic and repulsive event. It should not be legal, it never was ethical or in the spirit of honest open government. And that goes for any politician who does such. Including the Democrat n Alaska. The excuse of personal emails and resumes on them does not fly, government employees should not be doing personal business on government computers. I used to instruct my employees that if they had personal files they used at work to store then on a floppy or later a CDRom, not their hard drive. (Reason, when we terminated one we shut off their computer access immediately--I did not want to read the letter they wrote the girlfriend) Plus they were paid to work, not do personal things on our time.
Government officials must not only avoid impropriety, they must avoid the appearance of impropriety. The is no way someone would do this unless they have something big to hide. Politicians live to get into the history books. No way do they destroy or hide records unless they will bring them BIG trouble. This is way worse than Tricky Dick Nixon's missing 17 minutes.
"Is open government on the list of issues you consider when you choose a candidate"
Not if I want to have a president or governor. Reality, meet government.
I am not sure that it is good government to expose an administration's private thoughts and dealings in things like emails and interoffice memos. The threat of eventual exposure tends to inhibit free exchanges of ideas among government officials. Bismark's remark about laws and sausages is true, that's why legislators exempt themselves from transparency laws. Any really damning or illegal stuff never gets written down anyway.
Mike,
I am torn with this. I agree that private discussions on how to manage the birth of a new program, whatever it is, is great ammo for future attacks from political opponents. It makes sense that, if legal, the removal of this info would be a prudent action for someone who wants to leave open the option to run for office without having to fight through twisted details of those discussions/decisions.
Simultaneously, I wonder, when is a public servant's action (decisions/discussions/etc.) "owned" by that public servant and when is that action owned by the public?
It would be 'over-the-top' to say that "everything" in this realm is owned by the public. But the conundrum is how to categorize what occurs in government into clean "boxes" where, "This is yours and this is ours" kind of thing. A troubling conundrum.
NK
"... people like us" are muckrakers and yellow journalists eager to snuffle through tens of thousands of emails in the hope of finding a carelessly used "gotcha!" word or phrase that can be used to bring down a political opponent.
In my opinion email is the equivalent of conversation. Until we begin recording politicians 24/7, on and off the record, in private or public, email ought to be off-limits as well.
conversation doesn't cost taxpayer money, emails do..
Mike I'm with you on this - I have been a State Director and there is a lot of internal dialogue that goes on via email - conversations among peers. It is a thorny issue - but I think one way for many to look at it is to ask if you would like the contents of your office email to be shared with the world? Renee on one hand you're correct but on the other this is how we communicate with each other about the range of things that go on in work life. Discussions about staff member's performance - frustration at working with a legislator - While I understand holding to a higher standard I don't think that means not being a typical person in a work environment. I'm not a Republican - but it seems in this matter that Romney followed the law - everything that was done appears to be legal - and was up front - so to me it is a sensational topic in search of a smoking gun but is really in the end a non-issue.
Romney must be moving up in the polls. Time for MSDNC to turn up the heat. If Romney had a resume' like Obama, he would have smooth sailing. No job in the private sector, no track record, just a short stint as a Chicago politician.
Well said Gary. Let the Yellow Journalism begin. Obama can't run on his abysmal record and failed ill conceived policies. Even his Campaign head intimated as such, and that his only recourse is mud slinging. The Liar in Chief is on a roll. No matter, muck raking is despised by intelligent voters throughout history, and the instigators lose. One and done.
The only way the people will get there government back is to make lobbying illegal. T he question is how do we find enough "honest" politicians to make the vote .Washington is more corrupt than even the "famous New Orleans police dept" how to get these changes made into law will surely be a bitch.
When did the White House release this information to the public? I looked and did not find any of the press releases.
sounds like mitt is as crooked as they come, what bothers me is why none of the other canidates are killing him with this, why, are they hiding something?? especially you ron paul, everyone thinks your so honest, are you??
First thing I do when disposing of my old computer is either keep the hard drive or delete all the data.
Why is that? Do not want my SS#, PASSWORDS, bank accounts or any other info on it to be hijacked.
I think most of you are spend most of your time looking a soap operas and not thinking practical.
GET A LIFE AND REALITY WITH IT!!!!!
Practically speaking, Mitt was only governor for 2 of his 4 year term and in those 2 years didn't accomplish much either good or bad.
I's certainly a questionable practice but I don't see that there was really much to cover up in any case.
Mark and you never will see if there 'was really much to cover up'
Mitt has made sure of that
Legal when it was done? Yes
Right? No
I expect all records to be kept, keep your personal stuff off the govt computers...why are taxpayer paying for govt employees to conduct personal business on govt property? Don't they have a job they should be doing...WAIT...maybe it is god, since mostly we are not all that happy with the job thy do...Hmmm...May need to rethink that!
I don't condone this from any party or politician.
I'm equally curious as to where he got this "permission" from. Were taxpayer dollars used to buy those hard drives? Was the information on those drives paid for by taxes of citizens? How dare those politicians THINK that THEY have some kinda of "right" to them! Those records BELONG TO THE PEOPLE, NOT some politician with judges, lawyers and big corps in their back pocket! We are ruled by the 1% who do as they please with OUR money....
See 17.1
If it had been Bachmann or Perry, they would have claimed God gave them permission. With Mitt, it's hard to tell, but I can guarantee it wasn't from the MA taxpayers.
I guess both of you missed the part in the article which said it was all legal.
Sorry people, America don't need more self righteous rich people in the White House. We need someone from the ranks, someone that knows by experience what its like to be hungry, out of work, kicked down by our government waring within its self. Some one who has a "that's enough place in life". Really if your given "Nothing to pick from" write in OUZZY88 2012!
In answer to unique arts,it would`nt matter the republicans would take their toys and go home or like the criminals who are holding America hostage by blockaiding congress doing everything the special interest(lobbyists)pay them to do, they`ll do .The only way we will get change is for every man,woman,child to march on Washington, sort of a tianamen square on steroids and like our forefathers run them out on a rail the system we have now is rigged to protect them from ouster.its a good bet that all the folks that voted for those who are blockaideing ,would take back their votes if they new how childish their chosen political leaders would become.
I FOUND the hard drives..... They were with the 1.2B that corzine is missing. They were in his OTHER pants.... LOL LOL.....
What was done may have been legal, but it wasn't right. Destroying any government records should be illegal. This goes for everyone. If they sent private e-mails on those computers they were foolish. I don't even expect privacy on my own PC I paid for. I know my mail goes through a server somewhere and a record is probably kept.
Do all Politicians think we are "brain dead" ? Get out and VOTE! Read, learn, listen to all media but VOTE!
Fixed it for you. Voting without information is what got us where we are in the first place. We don't need any more knee-jerk voters whose only "research" consists of the smear campaign ads we're about to be bombarded with.
If we are going to look for hard drives, lets get the drives from Barney Frank, the banking boys in congress, the fed, MF Global, Citi Bank, Nancy P , and, just for good measure, the team of laeyers the president has out scrubbing his past.
True bikerchick, knee-jerk voters gave us Obama
But we are brain dead.Didn't most of us support George Bush with the invasion of Iraq even though there was no evidence of WMD and none of the terrorists that attacked us came from there or were even shown to have been supported by Saddam?
Kneejerk? We just did not want more lies, corruption and wars.
The only time you wipe anything clean or buy the evidence is when you HAVE something to hide. Once again this is yet another Government official that thinks they can hide wrong doing. I figure there must have been wrong doing because why else would Romney do this? Romney is just another in a long line of politicians that say one thing and do another. They will learn the public is not as dumb as they think.
I guess thats why we cannot see Obama's college transcripts.
Boy this is so suspicious it is not funny , I thought these people worked for the people they serve, guess I was wrong,, I can understand why 1 out of every 2 americans is poor, we need HONEST red Blooded americans to get elected to work for all america and then not destroy records that belong to the american people , too many crooks in government now as it is...
Ronk that goes for EVERYONE in office. It's just this story is about Romney.
Let's see your college transcripts.
Unfortunately, the public is as dumb as we think.
Ronkonkoma Chet:
It is all true. Barack Obama was not in college, he was digging ditches during his 'College Years". He was the president of the Harvard Law Review as a side project. He did it while he was a functioning alcoholic, and edited the prestigious journal of the one of the premier Ivy League Law Schools in the Nation because he had two hours per day after work, but before the local townie bar offered their happy hour discounts. He met his wife during that time. She worked as a stripper. She was known around town as the Chocolate Ripley, a reference to her physical similarity to Sigourney Weaver. It is a little known fact that Sasha is actually Barack's granddaughter, and his daughter was given up for adoption.
Maybe Chet will produce his Wanker County dentistry school transcripts. They are the Alma Mater with the famous slogan, "It's your only tooth remainin, best keep it shinin' or yore couzin' wont marry ye"
A USB memory card costs 10 dollars. If he wanted to save his documents, that would have been the logical action but now its an issue of why he had that HD removed and it vanished. Perhaps he had Anthony's Weiner on the HD or even worse... (place your thought here)
Myuki!: good point.
Larry: I would gladly show my college transcripts to anyone, especially if I were a public official. I graduated from a private college with a BS in Business, 3.167 GPA, deans list every semester sans one, paid for with student loans that took 10 years to pay off. You?
primate guy: I see I hit a raw nerve with that comment. Maybe I am a dentist after all, LOL.
The dentist comment is a clever line. No sarcasm intended.
Proving once again that these @!$%#s we elect to run our governments are nothing more than crooks and scoundrels out to feather their own nests.We need to send them all home permanently.