E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Joshua Roberts / Reuters
Army Pfc. Bradley Manning leaves U.S. Magistrate Court at Fort Meade, Md., on Tuesday.
Raising the hackles of some attorneys who work on transgender legal issues, defense attorneys for Bradley Manning apparently intend to make an almost novel legal argument -- that the Army private was suffering from gender identity disorder when his alleged crimes were committed -- if his case proceeds to court martial as expected.
In the first five days of Manning’s preliminary hearing at Fort Meade, Md., prosecutors and defense attorneys have both presented evidence that Manning, accused of leaking hundreds of thousands of secret government documents to the WikiLeaks website, was wrestling with gender issues in the period leading up to the publication of the documents.
The defense stated Saturday that Manning, 24, had written to one of his supervisors when he was stationed in Iraq before his arrest and said he had concluded he was suffering from gender identity disorder, which is classified as a medical disorder in the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems. He included a photo of himself dressed as a woman in the letter and said the issue was affecting his ability to do his job or think clearly.
A defense attorney and a witness also stated that Manning had created a Facebook profile and opened at least one email account using the name “Breanna Manning,” which the attorney described as an “alter-ego.”
As the hearing continued Tuesday, prosecutors presented testimony indicating that Manning had used another soldier’s laptop to order a book on female facial reconstructive surgery from Amazon.com that he had shipped to his Potomac address.
A search of Amazon.com for the term “female facial reconstructive surgery” returns just one title, “Facial Feminization Surgery: A Guide for the Transgendered Woman.”
Also Tuesday, Manning’s attorneys did little to challenge testimony by prosecution witnesses tying Manning to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and other electronic evidence collected in the case.
Manning is charged with aiding the enemy and violating the Espionage Act. If found guilty, he could be sentenced to life in prison.
If Manning’s case does go to court martial, his attorneys will apparently be just the second defense team to attempt to use a gender identity disorder as at least a partial defense in a military case, according to Jack King, a staff attorney with the National Association of Criminal Defense Attorneys specializing in mental health issues.
The only other case on record, he said, involved Karen Davis, a Navy electrician's mate, second class, formerly known as Charles Marx, who was prosecuted in the mid-1980s “for wearing women's clothing (a skirt, nylons, a women's blouse, a bra, women's fashion jeans, nail polish, a purse, and a wig) on numerous occasions while at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard.”
In appealing her court martial in 1988, Davis' attorneys argued that such conduct was not illegal. They also stated that, while living as Marx, she had been diagnosed by several Navy psychiatrists as having gender identity disorder and that cross-dressing was therapeutic.
The military appeals court allowed her dishonorable discharge to stand for the reason that cross-dressing was “prejudicial to good order and discipline and discrediting of the Armed Forces."
King said such a case would be unlikely today, given the greater understanding of gender identity disorder.
“Now, if a person could show that because he or she believed themselves to be a member of the opposite sex they had an irresistible impulse to cross-dress, they would in all likelihood qualify for a medical discharge,” he said.
Several attorneys who work with transgender legal issues said they were not aware of a gender identity disorder defense being raised in a civilian court, and King said it’s easy to see why not, noting that such a diagnosis “doesn’t prevent you from knowing right from wrong.” The disorder is most often raised in criminal proceedings as part of an overall insanity defense, or by expert witnesses arguing that a defendant is so mentally damaged that he or she should be committed, he said.
And several lawyers who work with transgender clients indicated they were not happy with the direction that the Manning proceedings have taken.
“We don’t think that being transgender, if he in fact is, has anything to do with him breaking the law,” said Kylar Broadus, an attorney with the Transgender Law and Policy Institute. “Obviously the charges are serious and we don’t want the trial to be sensationalized or detracted from by him being transgender.”
“Our opinion is there is no correlation between anything he has done and gender identity disorder,” agreed Dru Levasseur, a transgender rights attorney with Lambda Legal.
“This plays into stereotypes that are not true,” he continued. “There are a lot of people with gender identity disorder fighting for their lives to be respected and understood as human beings who need equal access to the law. This type of scenario just confuses the situation.”
Follow Mike Brunker on Facebook or Twitter.
Leave a Comment:
This has got to a trial to rival the movie Chicago. WHAT a bunch of pure CRAP!
If this is a disorder then it can be cured, or at least treated. Are they suggesting that transgender, homosexuality, etc. are psychological diseases that can be cured?
Can't wait to read the replies for this one.
Manning is a nutjob. Nothing to do with being transgender, he's just a simple loon. And his attorneys are slimy.
I would guess that this is the old say something say anything defense and pray that it works.
Doesn't matter if he stands up or sits down in the crapper.Treason is treason.Get rid of the civilian lawyer,this is not a civilian matter.Let the Army use UCMJ and military lawyers.If found guilty,find a tree and string him up......He can wear whatever he wants,as long as it matches the noose......And Klinger was only in violation of AR-600-50....code of conduct for wearing the uniform ...not too bad.................... U.S.Army Disabled Veteran
Gender identity has nothing to do with knowing right from wrong. Legal and Illegal action. He is a traitor so he needs to pay the price for stealing documents. He stole. I don't care how you paint it, a criminal act is still a criminal act.
norm .. maybe Bachmanns husband can help .. is it treason to broadcast things you ..say .. or .. do or make up .. if so we are all traitors when we repeat gossip or make up lies about our Gov and president ..as so many politicians seem to do
Stupid move, the military does not recognize mental stress. They still deny that soldiers are committing suicide because of PTSD. This line of defense is going to get the poor boy hung. Personally, I find that he did release secret documents, but nothing that caused mass death, just a whole lot of proof of our government running a gossip shop through the State Dept. (Mrs. Clinton) and that they would whore about anything to have "Peace with Pakistan".
@IndependentJim - You appear to be ignorant regarding the definition of treason
Yeah, and the gay community does not recognize that gays do wrong things that are sometimes not tied to being gay.
Gender identity has absolutely nothing to do with this case. He is a criminal, and a traitor to his country. This wacko gives the gay and transgender community a bad name.
He should be charged with high treason and punished to the full extent of the law.
Look, guys this is simple. What this defense tells me is that the foresic evidence is overwhelming and damning. What the lawyer is trying to do is to make an arguement of mitigation. It's one that has very bad political overtones, but it's not the lawyer's job to worry about what it could mean to the transgender community. It's the lawyer's job to find a defense that will save his client's life. He can't really go with an insanity plea, because Manning tried to conceal the theft and that says that he understood the nature of his acts. Legal insanity by military standards would have to be a sever psychological break that would leave the person unable to distinguish right or wrong.
This guy thought he was smart. He was angry and lashing out. Manning will at the very least spend the remainder of his life in jail. His lawyer is just trying to avoid the death penalty.
Independent jim, your name is offensive for the real independents your name is fake, base on your comments.
Criminal Lawyers have the right to defend the accused, with all they have to make their case, sometimes it works with activist Judges when the gay issue is mentioned to justifie actions, the kind of Judges that Newt was talking about. I hope this is not one of those cases.
How about he tries the trans-stupid-traitor defense?
How did this nut job get a security clearance?
How did he get his security clearance? By governmental/union employees.
Oh... the old "I'm gay and that made me transfer top-secret files" defense... yep... used it many times.
They are desperate.
This is a disgusting libel on all transgendered people. Sorry Manning, being confused about your gender identity doesn't cause you to spontaneously commit treason.
+1 to Really?-1739510's comment.
@Justwonderin,
Though I don't dispute the majority of your comment, I do have a problem with the following portion:
“Get rid of the civilian lawyer, this is not a civilian matter.”
Sub chapter 09.870; Article 70; Sub paragraph (d) of the UCMJ allows the accused the right to be represented by civilian counsel.
On an entirely different matter, I read in an article the other day, from a psychological journal, that only 5% of male homosexuals are born gay & the remaining 95% are sucked into it by their friends. Go figure!
Yes indeed another disorder brought to the people by the American Psychiatric Association, all 350,000 card carrying and dues paying members of the club.
They have been working on their new manual the DSM V, which includes more disorders than the DSM IV.
Readers may be interested in their "undates" as the DSM V will not be printed or ready to print until 2013. They do have a link that shows the changes from one edition to another.
You can decide why this small group will create and define growing numbers of "disorders." Could it have anything to do with money?
Do you have any idea how many cowards have dressed in women's clothes to get out of combat zone over the CENTURIES? This Klinger Defense has nothing to do with his treason.
according to the reports so far; this PFC, had a known gender disorder problem, was hostile to authority, did not make friends with co-workers, was known to have mood swings, some mood swings turned violent, did not have any inner -action with other workers; however he was put in a intelligence division with what they claim had access to classified information from many branches of the government; his commanding officer and all other officers over him should be on trial for unbelievable stupidity .
As Lucy van Pelt would have said, if we find out whats wrong with Mr. Manning, then we can label it. Gotta love the psychiatric profession, if they come up with a label for something, then they can charge for it. Never a cure, always a fee. "Nickels, nickels, Nickels, I love the sound of money."
First post to actually summarize it pretty clearly - not to mention the fact that the day he sent the letter with himself dressed as a female with the comments that his identity crisis was directly affecting his job should have gotten his clearance suspended pending a full psych eval.
As for his gender issues affecting his judgement of right and wrong, he's already admitted he knew what he was doing was wrong and the actions he took to cover his tracks confirms that. Guilty as charged.
Being transgendered does not mean you are gay, most transgender people after having a sex change are in relationships with members of the opposite sex. While their issues are similar to many that gays far, they are not gay.
Having said that, this is more likely an excuse the lawyers are attempting to use than an actual crises that resulted in a lack of judgement, Most anyone who is undergoing the steps toward sexual reassignment has many issues to deal with, the experience is difficult and involves a total life change, this will result in extreme stress, often caused by the rejection of the ignorant in society. It is not an excuse for other bad behavior and the acts this soldier is accused of.
To allow it as such is to demonize all transgendered people, and that would be an even bigger crime. I believe the courts sand jury will see right through it no matter how much dancing the lawyers do. But they, Dan WHite claimed he murdered George Moscone and Harvey Milk because he ate too much junk food (so called twinkie defense)..and that worked he was out of prison in just 5 years for the murder of two elected officials.
Oh and no I am not transgendered, I plan to keep the package I came with--I am kinda attached to it...uh and it is attached to me!
It's a silly defense argument and it won't work.
The legal team is effectively announcing that Manning is guilty of the charges brought forth by the government.
Treason warrants the Death Penalty. Put this poor sick loon out of his misery.
As you can clearly see the LGBT organizations are not supporting this, if the prosecution calls the President of the Transgender Identity Project as a witness the defense will have the highest authority on the subject testifying against their strategy.
When Lambda Legal calls BS on it...you know it is not going to fly.
I'm just surprised that Rod Blagojovich didn't try this as part of his defense!
For those of you who imagine that all Manning did was hurt America's ego and the pride of this government, then think on this, he released the names of under-cover personnel working in some of the most dangerous areas of the world. Several of the under-cover agents are now dead. operations were cancelled or scaled back because of this guy and that cost taxpayers BILLIONS of dollars to correct. Any time a program has to be shut down because of this type of politically motivated crap it costs us money, time, personnel and equipment.
The government may do some things you don't agree with but this guy/girl wanna be had no right to endanger the lvies of others merely to make a political point. He signed-away his political rights the moment he put on that uniform (military are forbidden to participate in any type of political activity other than voting while they still wear the uniform). He stole thousands of documents and not just stuff he had access to, he conned and stole his way into access to other programs and that shows criminal intent as does covering it up.
This transgender nonsense is a screen and a stupid one at that. He is counting on bias and ignorance and hoping the Army is still living in the 50s. It just shows how dumb he is and how dumb his lawyers are. They obviously share his anti-military leanings and refuse to understand that the services are full of well-trained, well educated and politically unimpressed people who are far more intelligent than Manning or his lawyers will ever be.
Nice try moron, 10,000 to 1 this guy swings or spends life without parole. Treason is treason, no matter who commits it and that piece of paper you signed swearing not to divulge informetion without permission has real teeth....their about to sink deep into your hide and they do not let go.
For Independent Jim
Presumptuous matter (in some people it's called brain) between your ears is completely independent from a reality to make such a stretch
Looks like this traitor is guilty and the Defense has to reach for ludicrous explanations. Next up - insanity plea.
The death penalty isn't being pursued in this case. FYI.
And security investigations are outsourced to contractors now. They used to be conducted by the FBI (30 years ago).
Lets see now
If he thought he was female at the time she leaked the documents then the military has no juristriction since she never joined.
If she is not guilty by being female, then no woman in the military can be found guilty of anything.
If he is found guilty, do they have to release her since she is not the same person?
Just wondering.
He should hurry up and fire the dump truck attorney. Is this attorney a government appointed lawyer? Oh, that will make it a rail roading.
The Pentagon calls that a lie.
@ Me-3488779
Very good post
You have got to be kidding me!!! This guy is suffering from more then gender identity! Just because he doesn't know if he wants to be a man or a women has NOTHING to do with his crimes. GET OVER IT....
As was stated in the article, the mental disorder of homosexuality “doesn’t prevent you from knowing right from wrong.” The gay defense is a lame defense. If Manning is found guilty, I hope he gets the max sentence of life in prison.
In response to Norm903. Yes, many people have been "cured" of Gender ID disorder and are now living fulfilled lives as heterosexuals.
Federal law requires everyone who enlists or re-enlists in the Armed Forces of the United States to take the enlistment oath. The oath of enlistment into the United States Armed Forces is administered by any commissioned officer to any person enlisting or re-enlisting for a term of service into any branch of the military. The officer asks the person, or persons, to raise their right hand and repeat the oath after him. The oath is traditionally performed in front of the United States Flag and other flags, such as the state flag, military branch flag, and unit guidon may be present.
I don't care if you're straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered. I don't care if you wear boxers or pink panties. I don't care if you feel disenfranchised because of your gender identity. When you stand in front of our great flag of the United States of America, raise your right hand and willingly repeat the above oath you are required to uphold it to the best of your ability.
If you knowingly and willingly refuse and commit a crime of treason you have put me and every other law abiding citizen in jeopardy. You should be tried in front of a military court and sentenced by it. Regardless of the punishment you should never be a free man/woman again.
You can work out your gender issues in a cell or dangling from the end of a rope.
So it's OK to build a bomb, plant it and try to detonate it, but if doesn't explode or nobody is hurt there's no crime?
TWO WORDS People. Corporal Klinger!! Ring a Bell anyone?? This is the oldest dodge in the books to get out of the Military. At least it was until Obama repealed DADT. Say your were "gay" or "cross-dress" like Klinger did on M*A*S*H and you would get out on a psychological discharge (i.e. Medical) and get to go home.
Everybody knew this guy wasn't happy about being deployed to Iraq and was working every way he could to get sent home early, without getting into too much trouble. He figured the Wikileaks thing wouldn't blow up like it did, because he was young and stupid and was of the Generation Y, Napster music "sharing" generation to whom plagarism and piracy of copyrighted material and such is "no big deal".
All those things he did were to set up the "I'm crazy, send me home." dodge. He is no more trans-gender than there is air on the moon.
lilolme,
Homosexuality isn't classified as a mental disorder anymore, since a bunch of "Gay" psychiatrists stacked the American Psychiatric Association's (Mental Health AMA) annual convention and voted to remove it from the Standard and Diagnostics Manual back in the late 1960's/early 1970's. Gee, I wish the AMA could do that with deceases like AIDS or Cancer, and just vote that they aren't deceases anymore and POOF, they aren't and no one ever has those conditions again.
If they can do that for Homosexuality, what's to stop them from doing it for say Bipolar or Depression too?
Of course this disorder can be cured. That's what gender reassignment surgery does. What does homosexuality have to do with this? I don't really get the feeling you understanding any of these terms you are bandying about.
If I were to take a bet, I'd bet that some preacher somewhere told you that these are Bad People, and you have been dutifully following that ever since.
Good for you.
"he released the names of under-cover personnel working in some of the most dangerous areas of the world. Several of the under-cover agents are now dead." -Me3488779
Does anyone remember the huge fit that was thrown over Valerie Plame's name being put out there? She wasn't even an undercover agent, even when she worked in the field, for the CIA. Her name was never classified. When her name was put out in the media it was already well-known that she worked for the CIA, and anyone that might've been curious about her could have followed her as she drove from her home to CIA headquarters. That got incredible amounts of scrutiny and media coverage, and Scooter Libby even went to jail over it.
Flash forward to this WikiLeaks thing. Media outlets are covering up for what was actually released and how much damage has been done. People have died! Yes, this guy is going to spend a very long time (or, depending on how much contact he has with other prisoners, maybe a very short time) in prison (former military, even in prison, don't have much respect for traitors). He'll be miserable because he won't be able to get gender reassignment surgery (and from what I understand from the transgendered community, that's a worse prison).
But what about Julian Assange? Sure, we can't prosecute him as a traitor (since he isn't an American citizen), but could we toss him in Guantanamo Bay for aiding enemies of the U.S.? Or could we simply prosecute him for accessory to murder for publishing the info that got our agents killed? You know, after the whole rape thing blows over.
Obviously, lilolme (and a few others) need to work on reading comprehension. The "defense" is transgender disorder, not homosexuality. BIG difference. And neither are considered mental disorders.
That said, being transgender or confused about gender identity in any way is NOT a defense against treason.
Let's just remove this Manning idiot from the gene pool and be safe!
Something like him obviously fell through the crack of gene pool control (should have gone into a sock!).
Somehow, this reminds me of the case of the FBI's Robert Hanssen ten years ago and the common perception, at least, that in his defense it was said that an addiction to pornography somehow 'made' him spy for the Russians.
The fact is that Hanssen was sentenced to life in Federal prison without parole, no matter what anyone may have thought or said was responsible for him doing what he did. Nothing his defense offered gained any real traction, and I'm thinking that this tactic ostensibly being used in Pfc. Manning's defense is bound to result in much the same thing.
A Army psychologist recommended that PFC Manning not be placed in the position he was in, but they did it anyway. I wouldn't give the kids a medal, but I sure wouldn't sentence him to any time in a military brig or any penal institution. I served and understand the UCMJ, but sometimes you have to look beyond the "laws."
The laws of this country have allowed slavery, illegal wars, genocide of the indigenous people, segregation, separate but equal, McCarthyism, etc.. Given the facts and under the UCMJ, he will be found guilty, but is that justice? I think not.
Why did our government decide that the number of Iraqi civilians that died due to our invasion was a secret? They claimed that they kept no such records. The kid gave the establishment some embarrassment--so what? We are damned close to being a military dictatorship anyway and I wouldn't be surprised to see the military be used in coming years to squash democracy.
Free the kid.
norm903 Post # 1.1 Norm, One would think, with your logic, that it could be cured. Such is not the case. The folks who write the DSM are fighting tooth and nail over the "new and improved" edition that they intend to publish by 2013. There are many additions above and beyond the last version. Please tell me why that is? Have there been more psychiatric disorders discovered? I offer this idea, it is about money. Money for the insurance companies, money for therapists, and a mess more money for the pharmaceutical companies. Recent events in the Commonwealth of Virginia offer an example. Virginia has now built and are housing those creatures who have sexually abused children. It is like a "half-way" house. After the creature has been released from jail, ( generally serving a few years for their evil act against one or more children), they go to these new "clinics" that Virginia has built. Their "disorder," "illness" can be cured, a guarantee by the therapists who are paid to run the place. I have done the math on the cost to the tax-payer of Virginia. It costs 1.25 Million per pervert a year. There is no cure for them. This is just more BS from psychiatrists and many psychologists, probably the children of the ones who promised us that they would empty the jails across America back in the 1960s through their different therapeutic methods.
Norm, while you are explaining this lunacy to me please tell me why the reporters keep saying " Fort Meade, Md." I thought that fort had been closed years back. Do they mean the NSA at Fort Meade, Md.? That is the mailing address for the National Security Agency. Was this freak Army intelligence or an employee of NSA?
Fine, he can be as gay as he wants, but hang that traitor b!tch.
Perhaps if we had a Bradley Manning back in 1975 our government would not have been able to leave 614 out of 1205 American prisoners in the hands of the Vietnamese in order to avoid the embarrassment of making war reparations like the French did. My numbers ultimately come from the Soviet Archives. Google JOHN MCCAIN AND THE POW COVERUP and see what I mean.
Sandrich, I don't think I have ever seen a statement that somehow doesn't tie back to the govt's fault. I saw this comment above regarding Valerie Plame's ousting by Bush's Merry Maids. Were you "outraged" on that one?
If so, Manning actually released names and locations. How is this any different than calling for Carl Rove's head?
Does that mean that gays should now no longer be allowed in the military because it should be considered a serious mental defect that could make people release classified documents?
I think this guy is trying to undermine equality of gays in the military have received recently.
Truth is his "condition" has nothing to do with whether he did the crime or not. The only think that it should be considered for is in the sentencing.
I agree jim
I could not have said it better except to add:
Honor medal him for defending the US Constitution against covert overwhelming tyranny. Recommend him for the Noble Peace Prize for fighting the good fight and putting his life and personal well being on the line in the defence of humanity and for sacrificing himself and his freedom by protecting peoples around the world and putting the damper on potential psychopathic budding dictators planning martial law fantasies in the US of A.
A hero if ever there was one...history will recognize his moral courage and fortitude in defence of humanity. If Jesus is real, then he is clearly manifest in him - Manning on the Cross!
Jesus, my @$$. He's a usless piece of crap trying to be mistaken for somebody (by numbnutz like you two) by leaking. He took an oath before God and man, did his best to betray it in as many ways as possible, and now, "it's not my fault, it's that I'm really a woman trapped in a man's body." No, he's a COWARD "trapped" in a military service THAT HE VOLUNTEERED TO JOIN. Did he think it would be just like the Boy (Girl?) Scouts, or did he even know what he was getting into? He had to understand that he was endangering countless lives but be too self-centered to care. If the develop a Nobel Prize for Cowardice, I will put him up for it myself. Christlike? Not in your wildest anti-American dreams, El Sid.
Sandtrich, as a veteran, you should know the difference between our admittedly unfortunate state of affairs in this country today and an actual military dictatorship.
This is the type of recruit the Army can expect to get with the current PC mindset they have.
Ummmm--the typical recruit in the service is 1) Christian and 2) conservative. While the enlisted men do tend to be Democrats more often then Republicans, they are still highly conservative Democrats. The information I am providing comes straight from the military, and you can look it up if you like. It appears that your moniker here is something of a projection.
beanathome,
Having spent 21 years in the Army, I hate to break your bubble, but a vast majority of military members vote Republican. Officer and Enlisted both show a strong leaning to the right.
I am curious where you got your information.
Almost 70% voted for Bush in 04 and pretty much the same for Mccain in 08 so I guess that answers that one
@Govt_Issue, "beanathome" gets their information where most liberals do and it isn't from truth. They make anything up to make their point no matter how ludicrous.
Excuse me, I served and I was and am a liberal. I have a neice and nephew who are both in the military and can be termed liberal. We all served because we believe in the principles that are embodied in the Constitution. What is your problem?!
Most Military members are Republican , I worked for a contractor firm , all the retired officers where Republicans, however most of the African Americans where Democrats. Democrats ban recruit offices in most college, in San Francisco a heavy Democrat district ban Military recruit offices, Democrats want to get rid of JROTC from schools, Democrats commit fraud with Military Ballots that come from overseas because they know those votes are heavily Republicans.
FoundersFan
@Govt_Issue, "beanathome" gets their information where most liberals do and it isn't from truth. They make anything up to make their point no matter how ludicrous.
Now isnt that the pot calling the kettle black
Obama Lies
He was recruited under the old non-PC mindset... well before DADT was repealed. So how do you explain that one Mr. Mastermind? I guess "they" are only there if we allow them to admit they are there? LOL. What a joke.
LMarc, so you think that with the stroke of a pen the army mindset changed? This has been building for quite some time and the elimination of dadt was just the culmination. When this idiot was cross dressing and referring to himself as "breanna" he should have been tossed. Instead, the pc crowd put up with his antics and this is the result.
What difference does that make?
First of all, those of you pretending that members of the military are REQUIRED to vote for one party; or vote UNANIMOUSLY for one party and never for the other, are all full of baloney.
Enlisted men and women have the right to vote for whomever they choose. More importantly, they need the opportunity to do so, without pseudo-patriotic idiots telling them who they MUST vote for:
Obama Lies,
You really need to pull your head out of your fourth point of contact...Gays have been serving in the military all along. Now, for the first time in US history, they can serve openly. I have know many gays in the military, and unlike you, more often than not, they have been reliable and responsible. There are exceptions to the rule, as there are to your average Heterosexual. I have served with individuals, who have progressed further in the service than I have, have trouble with following regulation, they can't keep their pants on, they wouldn't know proper conduct if it smacked them in the face. Career progression is largely based on politics or whether or not they like the person, instead of the person's actual ability to do their job.
Your paranioa is an embarrassment to the United States, and should be to yourself as well. I am not gay, but I am a conservative moderate, with no party affiliation, as are more of the members I know. I have been in the Army for over 23 years and have had the opportunity to work with every aspect of military members we have, both in and out of War zones. When bullets are flying, you never know who will step up and who will freeze. I would expect you would freeze.
This clown's defense has nothing to do with his sexual orientation, or whether he is confused about it or not. This is a BS tactic to try to deflect the fact that this idiot didn't like to play by the rules. His superiors probably were afraid to confront him about his behavior because they knew he would pull something like this.
Most military members would never have considered doing something like this, because they give a damn about their fellow soldiers. It was obvious to me that this kid is a borderline psychotic, with NO regord for anyone but himself. I would expect he is a little like you.
Just because people are republican or democrat doesn't mean they wont change. Sure, the majority of the military would label themselves conservatives, but after loseing who knows how many friends, and years in a stupid pointless war, people tend to rethink things. I was super pro George Bush when I was younger (mind you I'm agnostic so I still couldn't stand bible thumpers then,) and when I graduated High School off I went to Parris Island to be an infantry Marine. I was in the fleet for about 7 months and off to Iraq I went.
Needless to say, while I'm still an independent I tend to side with the democrats on the majority of issues. We made no gains in Iraq only spent money and once we realized there were no WMD's we should have pulled out. We're still in Afghanistan but Osama Bin Laden was killed.... why? Am I "un-American" because I would rather see us spend less on bombs and more on schools?
I won't deny that a strong military is needed but we're already far ahead of the rest. People cry about China and use them as a scare tactic to continue to waste money on upgrading equipment that is already superior, when they can hardly keep a few ships supplied in the Gulf of Aden.
Only someone who has never served, served but never seen combat, is one of the tools who brags about "my dad served!" mean while their 40, or is just unbelievably ignorant would try to blast someone for not serving as if that is some how an insult. Oh yeah, someone who spent 20 years in the Air Force, big surprise. The military get paid well enough, and if there ARE raises, it should go to the pay and benefits of those who have been in COMBAT (key word) not some POG who spent 20 years "serving" his country behind a desk.
It never worked for Corporal Klinger, and he didn't break the law.
yossarion,
"It never worked for Corporal Klinger, and he didn't break the law."
That's what I was thinking. The article says he wrote to a supervisor when he was in Iraq and told his supervisor that he thought he might have gender identity disorder. Since that would have been before the repeal of "Don't Ask; Don't Tell", if he wrote that to a supervisor in the military, it looks to me like he was trying to get a discharge, but it obviously did not work so he decided to illegally upload classified information instead to get a discharge. Unfortunately for him, that won't work either.
Klinger? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt about having a "gender identity disorder" but how is that an argument to defend treason?
I agree. Firing squad or the loony bin for life. Your choice PFC.
This is what happens when you have a high profile case and some bottom feeding defense attorney figures this will be a good opportunity to get some exposure, job interview if you will, to get future clients. Cross dressing traitor and piece of excrement defense attorney. Perfect bedfellows.
The argument would be he admitted to having "Homosexual Tendencies with cross-dressing" and he should have been removed from duty. You can't have a rule apply for some, if not all. So he should have been kicked out of the military BEFORE he committed treason (as you like to put it), me, I'm all good with some embarrassment on a massive political scale. I'd give him a Medal of Honor, he showed that we were hiding facts that we killed civilians, we backtalked and backstabbed most of the world through the state department ...
Nothing that he provided has to this day endangered any American troops.
You are very wrong. if you read even the summary of the documents, you would find that several informants were named by name. Also, several future tatical strategies were outlined, giving the enemy advance notice, therefore allowing them to prepare and kill more trops.
Anything given the enemy endangers troops. Even if only used for propaganda, it recruits more to kill troops. What Manning did is, by the strictest definition, treason.
He is a whistleblower and deserves protection. Does anyone believe we would be "out" of Iraq without those civilian murders being leaked? Does anyone believe this kid is going to get a fair trial? So far the only 10 witnesses allowed to testify were the 10 that were on the prosecutions list. 20 others the defense wanted were denied. The commander in chief has already pronounced him guilty and his subordinates will not find otherwise.
Dennis, I'm all for self-policing whistle-blowing in the private sector... but in the military?... with an assignment handling secret docs? It's called treason. If he goes free with the argument of whistle-blowing we will never be able to keep another military secret. Is that really what you want?
But didn't his Commanding Officer "chew him out for poor dressing such as "your slip is showing" etc.?
This guy is the scum of all scum IMO and this trial shouldn't be taken off the front page of any newspaper till decided. Let the Armed Forces and the rest of the world know what is at stake here.
I once thought 20 years of hard labor would be enough but now I think life without parole is the only fitting punishment for him after hearing of his lame ass defense strategy.
Hey, Manning defense team ----- This is an excellent point to negotiate a settlement; let all parties agree that Manning pleads guilty to all of he charges and THEN be sent to spend his (life) sentence in a WOMEN'S prison. Justice for all concerned.
Trust,
It is obvious to me that you don't know Sh!t about Sh!t.
You have never spent a minute in a uniform, or if you did, you are completely misguided. There are many things, such as; publicising the burning of the Kuran, that needlessly puts lives in danger. When you have servicemembers in areas where they are easy targets, you DON'T enflame the ENTIRE population against them. He provided ammunition to do just that.
What Manning did was completely narcissistic and went against his orders, completely. Not only did he endanger military who were still in theater, but he also endangered civilian personnel contracted to work in danger zones.
You are welcome to your opinion, as are all Americans, but I am ashamed to call you a "fellow" American.
I don't care what his motivation was, he committed high treason and he should pay the ultimate price.
Hear, hear.
And the issue of gender identity has absolutely no connection with the charges. If he were on trial for gender behavior, cross-dressing, etc. maybe there would be a connection. Persons who are gender-confused can still recognize right from wrong. They can follow orders and perform their duties with honor. That is the whole argument of allowing gay persons to serve - they can do the job well. Allow them to serve, and if they screw up, then punish them the same as all others - no better and no worse. If they perform well, then recognize, promote, and award them the same as all others - no better and no worse.
I've no absolute opinions about the morality of releasing secret documents [which some claim should not have been secret]. There may be a gray area between releasing secrets manifestly detrimental to U.S. interests, and releasing "secrets" which have only been classified as such to save some higher official political embarrassment. I'm old enough to remember Daniel Elsberg's release of the Pentagon Papers.
But, what in heck does a gender identity disorder have to do with Mannings's guilt or innocence? How does confusion about one's proper gender disable one's ability to discern right from wrong?
I'm not advocating in defense of Manning's release of classified documents. I'm only acknowledging that there may be some circumstances wherein such actions could be, at least, morally justified. My own very rough assessment is that Manning was more driven by personal motives than a desire to air unjustifiably hidden facts about the War on Terror.
But a Gender Identity Disorder Defense? Twinky and PMS-based defenses, move over. There is a new champion.
Simply stated, Republicans hate whistleblowers, regardless of intent or justification (or what's in their pants). Truth be damned... This is nothing more than another pathetic TeaCircus.
Free Bradley Manning!
Guy or girl, it aided the enemy and needs to pay.
Truth be damned dudo...Manning is never going to be freed. Saying your a girl is not a defense for treason.
Go back to obamalala land and get some new talking pionts.
How is this a republican vs democrat issue? Is democrap Obama going to pardon his sentence if re-elected?
I, Bradley Manning, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
You cannot morally justify treason! The boy (or girl) is toast.
I have heard some pretty ignorant things posted on here, but this one ranks pretty close to the top. This is a military trial you idiot. The Tea Party has nothing to do with this trial, neither do the democrats. Instead of showing your ignorance, why dont you try researching the facts for a change. He is being accused of treason. Tell me, do your Democratic friends look kindly on those types of people? (I think I already know the answer to that)
Dudogger, remember the days of high school? Where rumors run rampant and lifelong friends and enemies are made? Wait, let me guess... You never had any rumors started against you... Okay, that justifies everything. Look at it this way... Say you were the class president. Surely you had opinions about everyone in school, and talked to a few people about them. Would it be okay for them to go and tell other people your opinions of them? No matter if they are good or bad? Bradley did that very thing. And for everyone else...Regardless of sexual orientation, or gender, ITS STILL WRONG!!! Being a cross dresser doesn't alter your morals or thought process.
dudogger- Sorry, but he committed a crime. He STOLE documents. He is a poster child for treason. His supporters are not good Americans or do they follow the law. They are the same people that try to ruin soldiers funerals.
HANG MANNING!! AND ASSANGE!!
Well, I've got a pretty absolute opinion about the immorality and depravity of shooting Iraqis from a helicopter while laughing about it, as if the killers were playing a game on X-Box. That's what one of the videos apparently acquired by Manning showed. There were other documents about similar crimes, as well as documents about corrupt Arab leaders, whose release some people believe was a major motivation behind the Arab Spring uprisings against Arab dictators.
Manning exposed horrendous crimes and corruption, and he has already been punished for it without a trial by the US government with harsh treatment and solitary confinement for over a year before the current hearings. What he did was a benefit to humanity. But this ridiculous and futile cross-dressing defense his lawyers have concocted just cheapens his contribution. His defense would be stronger if it were based on arguing that things like the murder-by-helicopter video should NOT have been classified. Whoever classified it should be the ones standing trial -- along with the murderers themselves.
Houston,
Not to excuse the acts of a few, but, you are wrong to think that this information "shouldn't have been classified".
Number one: you don't know that these people weren't being prosecuted through the military channels.
Number two: Acts like this happen in any conflict, by both sides. There is NO absolute way to keep it FROM happening, but publicising it just causes more problems than it solves.
Number Three: You are talking apples and oranges. You don't solve crimes by committing more crimes, and I would expect that Manning didn't give a damn about what he was exposing or the scope of what he was exposing. He released millions of documents, that covered thousands of past and current operations, many didn't have any of the issues you descibed above.
Military Man-1740371
The ONLY reason for classifying that video was to cover up the crimes that were committed by the helicopter gunmen and to prevent the public from learning about the atrocity. The video was of no military value whatsoever and its release posed no threat to national security. The military will have to produce something a lot better than that to convince me and a lot of other people that Manning did anything to endanger national security that is so serious it deserves a life sentence. Right now, it looks more like punishing a whistle blower as an example to other military personnel who might know of other heinous crimes the military is covering up and might be thinking of exposing them.
Houston!- You still can not justify the crime. You can not go through life only obeying the laws you feel fit. I seen the video a couple of times. I saw what the helicopter pilot saw. A group of men that were armed. That were followed for some time. They were setting up a ambush on a US patrol. No honorable military man wants to kill innocent people. But how was he to know that there were 2 reporters with that group of insurgents? It was an accident. We can not just shoot pillows and candy at people. Why do you feel the need to protect a thief and a traitor?
And the Taliban came out immediately after the release by Wikilies, and stated that they were going to go over every entry and kill whoever helps the Afghan government and Coalition troops. Innocent people were put in harms way by a Egomaniac and a traitor. No matter how you color this, he betrayed his country.
John Walker spied for Russia for 18 years. He gave them top secret information on our nuclear subs, weapons aboard and shipping details. The result was the Russians were able to track all our subs for those 18 years. He and his accomplice got a life sentence and his son, which played a minor role in the espionage is already out. All manning did was send embarrassing cables to wikileaks and some videos of many countries, not just the USA. Why would they execute him, when Walker, which jeopardized many submariners if a war broke out, only got a life sentence? Much less sensitive information was released by Manning. .
My prediction: He will get 10 to 15 years and a dishonorable discharge.
Walker pled guilty, cooperated with the authorites, testified against his associates, and assisted with damage control by telling all the details of his spying in return for a life sentence for himself and a more lenient sentence for his son. If he had gone to trial he very well may have been executed. Also, Walker's spying was in peacetime and no one died as a result of his spying - Manning committed his crimes in wartime and leaked information that is likely to get people killed, if it hasn't already, by revealing their identity to the Taliban. He deserves a firing squad for that.
Manning committed his crimes in wartime and leaked information that is likely to get people killed
It's been all over the internet for more than a year now, do you have any links to anyone being killed as the result of these embarrassing cables being published? This reminds me more of "The Pentagon Papers".
Wartime, yes, but he did not release the information to the enemy, so that makes it kinda fuzzy for a death sentence. However, starbuck, you are missing the point. Embarrassing or not, the info was classified and releasing it was a treasonous act. Harm is not a consideration.
If the enemy has access to the internet, then he released information to the enemy. He knew and intended for the information to be openly published.
He is not on trial for cross dressing. If he was desperate to get out of the military because of the stress he felt being a transgendered man or because of gender identity disorder, then the simplest way to get out was to go on leave and never return to duty. Eventually, the MP's would find and arrest him and shortly after he would get, at worst, a dishonorable discharge. More likely a general discharge due to his diagnosis. None of this is a secret among troops. You don't get long sentences or executed anymore for going AWOL. The military has figured out that if you don't want to be in the service then they are better off without you anyway.
This was not a selective release of information by a whistle blower. This was a huge and indiscrimate information dump. And the attorneys are correct. Gender identity disorder in no way includes in the diagnosis an inability to tell right from wrong.
If he just wanted out, the simplest way would be to go to his commander and admit he was gay. He would be on his way home in the orning.
Anita, I knew a couple guys who just left....The MP's didn't even look for them. Both ended up returning voluntarily, serving a week in jail and were given general discharges.
Not anymore starbuck, it's ok to be gay.
When he released the cables, DADT was still in effect.
Yeah, but saying you are confused is not saying you are gay either. I'm not sure but if he thinks he's a girl and likes guys, physiologically, I don't think that makes him gay.
jpeg - you are correct. When I worked in a state prison, occasionally the feds would lodge a deserter. They spent more time in our jail waiting for the MP's to pick them up than they spent in a military prison waiting to be discharged.
If that's the best they've got, this guy will be rotting (maybe in drag) for the rest of his miserable life.
No matter what your orientation may be, it is no excuse for releasing classified information. It seems like no one is ever at fault, it is always caused by something else, and this is getting to be the classic defense. It is time to place responsibility on the individual who committed the crime. This individual swore to uphold the United States when they accepted the role of serving in our Military. They also need to be responsible for their actions.
This lawyer mumbo jumbo is such a drag.
So let me get this right...he was thinking of DICK instead of Jane, and that's why he gave away secrets.
Interesting defense...if your lawyers are total nut jobs.
.
I get that the defense has to do what they can do, but this has insulted all LGBT people who will now be forced to defend their honor and loyalty against all shades of homophobic reactions.
This also insults all women. I mean, is the excuse that this was "treason while female"?
.
Makes perfect sense, guy thought god made a boo boo, and should've made him a girl, so what does he do, he gives away top secret information to wikileaks.
and assaults a woman in his unit as well.
brilliant!!
Gender identity disorder. What a joke. Just another way to call his Gay homosexual behavior another name. This sure isn't any excuse for his espionage acts. A firing squad is the answer here.
John Walker spied for Russia for 18 years. He gave them top secret information on our nuclear subs, weapons aboard and shipping details. The result was the Russians were able to track all our subs for those 18 years. He and his accomplice got a life sentence and his son, which played a minor role in the espionage is already out. All manning did was send embarrassing cables to wikileaks and some videos of many countries, not just the USA. Why would they execute him, when Walker, which jeopardized many submariners if a war broke out, only got a life sentence? Much less sensitive information was released.
My prediction: He will get 10 to 15 years and a dishonorable discharge.
Agreed to an extent....secrets are secrets, no matter how minor. But you are right, I can only remember sentences of death during war times. (WW1 and WW2). Most likely many years of hard labor is a military prison.
I think the last execution for espionage was the Rosenberg's.
In prison, Walker has remained unrepentant. “It’s all a game, man....history has proved me right,” he said recently. “How much damage did John Walker do? None. Absolutely none. The Russians never invaded.” The Pentagon disagrees. To date, it has spent nearly one billion dollars to replace code machines and make other changes in military hardware because of the secrets that Walker’s spy ring disclosed.
unfortunately, he will probably get 20 years in military prison, where he will get to live out his homosexual fantasies every day.
He'd love that. He'll do more catching than Johnny Bench.
That sort of thing is far less prevalent in the Federal system than at the state-run facilities.
This is purely a case of sexual harassment.
The kid is obviously mixed up and needs rehabilitation.
He is being made the scapegoat for the transgressions of the 1%.
Go OWS !!!!!
obvious troll is obvious.
Chumbkt -
Is name calling the best you can do ???
I thought it was quite humorous myself....thanks for the laugh, nothing.
U R welcome
wait a minute, you mean that wasn't a troll? OMG, seek proffesional help IMMEDEATLE!!!
I know...sometimes hard to tell. When I need a really good laugh, I go read some comments on the huff post. Talk about absolute nut cases.
1
Atttention should be focused on Manning's superiors. If they were paying attention, they must have known that he was psychologicaly troubled. They gave him access to classified information anyway. Either the leaked material was less sensitive than now alleged, or the brass, not just some private first class, should be held accountable.
Sounds like you would have the "gun" stand trial, rather than the person who pulled the trigger.
The man is responsible for what he did. What is unfortunate is that he did most likely ruin the careers of many good, honest, loyal, and patriotic people.
If they hang this poor schmuck out to dry, let's let all the professional politicians get in the cell with him. They started this sensless war. How can you say he is a traitor. The real Traitors are the ones that ordered this war to be fought based on their own lies and (poorly) hidden agendas. He was, and is, a Hero. If more people that know about the crimes commited everyday by the corporations and their paid political thugs would report them. We the People, might have a chance. Think about it, and watch the BBC for your Americas news coverage. Our in country news is all corpragoverment controled now. New word watch, Corpragoverment- Goverment by the Corporation, for the Corporation, of the CEO's of The Corprate Uninted States of the America's.
well I would agree that many politico's are crooks, and the same with many CEO's, I'd like to know, what lie do you believe the afgahn war to be based on? The lie of Al Queada, with the support of the Taliban, attacked the WTC?
Or do you believe that was an inside job?
the fact is, Manning, who was too low of a rank to have access to Top Secret information, did. And he released that information so that the enemy (Taliban, despite what Biden says) would have access to it.
Rank has nothing to do with clearances. I had clearances way above TS at the same rank and most of my officers didnt.
It's easy to say he's a traitor - He gave away secret documents.
HE'S A TRAITOR!!!
And yes, hang his ass!
A true HERO on EVERY count! The american government, and it's armed forces committed heinous crimes, and they needed to be exposed for the evil they did, for whatever the reason.
phillip raney, What are you a Radical Muslim ..?
Hey phillip, a mind is a terrible thing to waste and intelligence is your friend...not your enemy. Get some today, while you still can.
Hey Raney, Which moslem sect do you belong to?
So, according to Manning's lawyers, all LGBT people are not to be trusted because they are traitors and the Army should not let them in. This is the Army's fault, not Mannings...
What a bunch of Bu!!Sh!t !!
"Gender identity disorder" - How wonderfully PC. Guess that means he's not responsible for any illegal act he might commit.
Because he thinks, he's a girl? He doesn't have the right equipment for it. Even a moron should be able to figure that out. If anyone is still confused, just look down your pants what you see there is an easy indicator of what sex you are. Then ask yourself the question, do I stand up or sit down to pee? Both will clear up really quick any question you might have as to your gender. So therefore I am assuming not only is he a criminal. He is not the sharpest pencil either. This reads like something you would find on the Cartoon Network.
And Retired-SFC, you are even a Duller Pencil if you believe it's all 'Plumbing' related.
Have a good day out there in De-Nile; or is it that you were never let out to see the real world very often???
I don't believe that his "disorder" has anything to do with his crime. His problem is that he thinks the world revolves around himself and didn't care who he hurt or got killed when he exacted his revenge.
You are right, his "disorder" has nothing to do with his crime. And the world does not revolve around US, such that you still have to obey the human rights treaties that you signed after WW2, or prepare to pay the price for not obeying them.
I don't think Mic-3856054 signed any peace treaties after WW2.
I just had to say something, because I couldn't figure out what the hell you are talking about.
Are you threatening me or the US doru001? Maybe I should send an email to Homwland Security about you?