Use fact scorecard live behind the candidates as they speak. Each time they address a topic of their portfolio of talking points, activate the score card. Show the Talking point on one side and the Truth on the other. If accurate rate them Green, yellow and if false show red for all viewers and candidates to see live. That would never go over with campaigns in debates but hey, technology and lies are evolving.

affinity - I think you are absolutely correct about Politifact. And using them to support your position makes for a very weak position indeed.

You may be right about politifact, but MISSING the point entirely.

So, how DO you stop these politicians from completely lying?

These guys completely lie about something, then we check the facts later, but the damage is done. Imbecilic things get said like 'Obama is a Muslin,' and 'Santorum took his sick kid out of the hospital'

Yes, the spelling is correctly incorrect on 'Muslin,' because that is how dumb people are.

The joke goes on that people actually think one of these political parties spends more time lying than the other. Suckers they may be, but sadly, they are suckers who vote.

You'd literally have to have a bipartisan agency to fine these guys personal money, and a lot of it, for lying. But since we don't want any more government regulation, expect more lying.

About the only way I can think of to stop a politician from lying is to sew or staple their mouth shut.

Give them one year in prison for each lie..then they "might" stop.

How do we keep candidates from lying over and over?

........And therefore, how does one keep the sun from rising every morning?

Ain't gonna happen.......It's in their very nature to at least, obfuscate, and at most to LIE. When caught they just shrug their shoulders and go on to the next lie. People believe what they want to hear even if they know it's a lie or a stretching of the truth. It's certainly not what we should all expect but it is what out political system has degenerated into on a grand scale. We're left to choose from a list of Liars, thieves, morons, back stabbers, leaches and degenerates in some cases. Let the games begin.

hs321:

Duct tape is a proven and less invasive technology for silencing the prevaricators, and it may be used to inhibit any digital gesticulation as well, in the case of some attempts at using sign language to promote these political whoppers.

I must say I do like the long term memory creation that would be associated with your selected approaches, as this may serve to be a prophylactic against future "slips of the lips".

Cheers!

I agree with you Affinity as Politifact routinely interjects opinnion which skew the facts as they did with the SOTU address (re: 22 months of growth and ...) where they examined 2 separate statements as true while treating the aggregate conclusion as mostly true. Philosophy 101, a tautology is true under all circumstances or perspectives. Therefore Politifact you cannot state something is true, and that same something is half-true.

It appears while Politifact started out with the grand objective of ensuring America has an unbiased, means of fact checking politicians, of late however they have forsaken that calling for political bias. They are now just Politi(but very little facts).

OBAMA IN 2012

70 DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE IN 2012

CONTROL OF THE HOUSE IN 2012

AND WE FINISH THE JOB WE STARTED....MAKING AMERICA THE MOST VIBRANT ECONOMY IN THE WORLD

By the way it would be faster for PolitiFact to just announce the true statements, as there are far fewer of these to assess. Much more efficient.

Actually it's real easy, ELECT THE ONE CANDIDATE THAT TELLS THE TRUTH!!!

Ron Paul 2012, the only candidate with the balls to stand up and tell the facts, not lies just to get you to vote for him, the plain and simple truth!

Take all the lies out of political campaigns and you would have nothing but silence!

Oh, I'll take that silence any day. How about we just vote based on their actions.

It would be no fun for political comedy though :-(

I was thinking maybe we could place a urinary catheter in each candidate and each time they lie, a Truth-o-meter would tug on it. Or, place all the candidates in a room, where oxygen is fed, at ten liters per minute. Each time one of the candidates lie, the liter flow is decreased, by one liter. Not only would this plan, make them think twice about lying, it would also be, the shortest debate in the history of politics!

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012

And yes, 70 Democratic senators in 2012 plus a majority of Democrats in the house. I think there are 436 Representatives. To be on the safe side, make it 275 Democrats!

Diane Sawyer did not do her homework before meeting with Obama. He flat out lied to Diane and to the American people when Diane asked him about food stamps.

Of course he blamed Bush but the facts are the percentage of the population on food stamps have jumped under Obama to just under 15%. It was at 8% under Bush.

It had been at a steady 8% since the 1970's.

Here is one way to begin to stop all of the lying.....join the Popular Amendment Movement at faircampaignreform(dot)us and help petition for the passage of these two constitutional amendments. Note Section 2 bold print:

Petition for US Constitutional Amendment For Election Reform

We, the undersigned US citizens, duly registered voters in our respective states/territories, do hereby petition for our state to approve the following amendment to the United States Constitution by the method noted below.

Election Reform:
1. Abolish the Electoral College (Repeal Amendment 12)
2. ONE NATIONAL primary date to be held on the Tuesday eight (8) weeks prior to the General Election day for Congressional offices and for the President. Candidate petitions must be filed with the local/state elections boards 60 days prior to the Primary Election date. Federal election petitions shall be uniform in every state and shall include a “contract with the voters” that spells out clearly what that candidate stands for on all issues that they may have to address in elected office. They shall be held accountable in court for breach of that contract if elected and any/all terms are not met.
3. NO campaigning allowed for any elective federal office more than 60 days prior to the National Primary Date.
4. NO campaign contribution shall be donated to any candidate of more than $200 from an individual or $500 maximum from a family (spouses/children living in the same household.) No donations shall be made to a candidate more than sixty days prior to the primary date. No candidate shall contribute from their own funds more than 60% of the total donations from other private individuals.
5. NO campaign contribution from any PAC, corporation, union, non-profit organization, special interest group, etc. shall be allowed for any elected federal office.
6. NO third party campaigning (separate PAC ads, corporate ads, etc.) for/against any candidate shall be allowed at any time during or before the election season.
7. NO party conventions shall be held to select the presidential candidates. The selection must be done at the ballot box in the primary election.
8. The One Man/One Vote Supreme Court ruling shall be enforced by this Amendment, namely that NO federal candidate selection shall be by any means other than the ballot box on Primary/General Election Dates.
9. National Party Organizations shall NOT raise money for or donate to specific candidates of their party prior to the dates outlined above.
10. PAC’s shall NOT be granted tax-exempt status by the IRS, and any non-profit organization who uses their funding for political purposes shall lose their tax-exempt status.
11. All lobbyists shall be outlawed from influencing Congress at all times.

This amendment shall be approved ONLY by State Constitutional Conventions to be called within 90 days of this petition being submmitted to a state’s Secretary of State. A minimum of 25% of the registered voters in each state shall be required to further this petition to the respective Secretary of State.

Name Signature State Address

Petition for US Constitutional Amendment For Congressional Term Limits

We, the undersigned US citizens, duly registered voters in our respective states/territories, do hereby petition for our state to approve the following amendment to the United States Constitution by the method noted below.

Term Limits for Congress:
1. Representatives to Congress shall serve no more than two two-year terms in the House.
2. Senators shall be elected to no more than two six year terms in the Senate.
3. No elected official shall serve more than six terms in office in any combined elected offices (House/Senate/Presidency.)

This amendment shall be approved ONLY by State Constitutional Conventions to be called within 90 days of this petition being submmitted to a state’s Secretary of State. A minimum of 25% of the registered voters in each state shall be required to further this petition to the respective Secretary of State.

Name Signature State Address

soundbite_monopoly,

Superb idea! Real time fact-checking during a debate. The second half of each debate should be devoted to addressing the lies told in the first half. Non-partisan fact-checking goes on coincident with the first half. Then the moderator points out those lies in the second half giving the candidate 60 seconds to extinguish their pants.

Death to all trolls

How do you keep politicians from lying? It would be easier to keep rats from breeding.

The real issue is how to get the mouth breathers in our electorate to not automatically accept everything they are told as being gospel (especially if it comes from their pastor). People need to think and research, and yes it helps to have entities that can check out statements and show where these are truthful or in error with verifiable evidence (but of course, if the outcome is against what some want to see they will label these as unreliable, without showing any proof as to why). Unfortunately, I became convinced years ago, through a combination of observation and experience, that about 80% of the people in the world are just plain stupid, they are just too lazy to investigate what the real issue is, and prefer to have someone else do their thinking for them. No wonder we have a bleeped up government.

It seems that anyone who is in anyway connected with politics are unable to tell the truth. It has become the norm to lie and keep repeating those lies so that they begin to believe their own lies.

Politifact is a very reliable organization. They don't make up facts but back up every one of their positions with tons of FACTS.

Just because you don't agree with Politifact's conclusions (because of your partisan fantasy beliefs) doesn't make Politifact an inaccurate gauge.

sumthin fishy

hs321:

Duct tape is a proven and less invasive technology for silencing the prevaricators, and it may be used to inhibit any digital gesticulation as well, in the case of some attempts at using sign language to promote these political whoppers.

I must say I do like the long term memory creation that would be associated with your selected approaches, as this may serve to be a prophylactic against future "slips of the lips".

Cheers!

Duct tape fixes about anything...... Perhaps a small amount over their noses also. Leave it there until they turn just a little BLUE. No harm no foul......

I have to agree whole heartedly with Roadhouse Blues. You can't keep politician's from lying, but having real-time research based fact-checking would help. The world would also be a better place if everyone engaged in critical thinking.

TheLum,

........duct taping their noses won't cause them to turn blue (did you mean go from GOPer to DEM?), because they actually have learned to breath through their mouths.

.

politician - If they are not lying then they are stealing or cheating. Lets face it these people could

never make it at a real job. With all the people in this country this is what we have to pick from???

How do we keep candidates from lying over and over?

Stop rewarding the lies by electing them.

Vote Ron Paul, he does not lie to us, he gets up there and tells the truth, the media lies by saying he's unelectable for it! If you stop rewarding the liars by giving them votes, that only leaves room for the truth!

Roadhouse Blues

TheLum,

........duct taping their noses won't cause them to turn blue (did you mean go from GOPer to DEM?), because they actually have learned to breath through their mouths.

I guess I was shooting in that general direction..... But I see your piont also.....

If they can be proved to be lying disgualify them from all political offices forever.

I can only dream the pos Joe Wilson (R) running behind the Republican candidates with a bullhorn and a broom to whack the liar's head while screeching "You Lie!!" hee hee :-)

I put together a handy chart of percentages from each of the candidates and Obama's scorecard, thought it might be a handy comparison for everbody:

.......................|Romney|Gingrich|Santorum|Paul|Obama

True................|_19%__|— 8%_|__13%__|__23% | 24%

Mostly True.....|— 16%__| .10% | 4% | 23% | 23%

Half True.........| _27%_— | 23% | 33% | 16% | 25%

Mostly False....| 13% | 19% | 25% | 13% | 12%

False...............| 15% | 21% | 17% | 19% | 15%

Pants on Fire...| 9% | 19% | 8% | 8% | 1%

(everything is rounded to nearest whole number)

wow that copy and pasted pretty messy, but you get the idea

Exactly Rorschach. They wouldn't use this ploy if American voters were more informed and less reactionary.

It might be helpful if our education system would attempt to teach kids to think instead of to blindly accept everything handed to them by those in authority. Actual independent and critical thinking and research are a lost art in this country and that is why it is so easy to convince people that outrageous lies are the truth.

Thanks Tim - that's interesting info. Can you provide the link to where it came from?

How do we stop the president from falsely making statements?

So during the debt crisis, Obama was on tv saying often that SS benefits were at risk unless the debt ceiling was raised. Now how could that be if we have a surplus of 2 trillion in the SS fund? So even if payments received were less than what needed to be paid out, it would not matter one bit since we could just tap into that reserve. That is what we are doing right now. What he isn't telling the public is that there is NO SS fund at all which is what some presidential candidates have admitted. There is an IOU fund but nothing in it that can be used to pay anybody.

These are the sort of half-truths said every day by candidates and our president.

Obama and the dems have bashed the rich for not paying their fair share. That is a boldface lie. They may want the rich to pay more, but it isn't truthful to say they aren't paying taxes and they are certainly paying their fair share.

This article clearly explains all the myths and half-truths that get distorted by the media, our president and candidates.

Of course one has to assume these numbers are correct as well, and herein lies the problem.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/27254.html

BTW, when Romney was under fire for his private equity firm, what was not said was who benefited. Two unions did. CALPERS and the TX Teachers union. The reason they invested in his private equity fund is because of the excellent returns which they desperately needed to fund those pensions that so often are underfunded. You can disagree how those returns were gotten, but to imply that ONLY rich people benefited is false.

Eutrepe - I got all of that info from the scorecards on politifact.com for each candidate. If you go up to each of their paragraphs in the article above there is a link to each of their pages. Each page on politifact only rates each of their statements, so I took it one step further and found the percentages for each statistic. Here is a cleaned up version of the chart. (lets hope it works better this time)

____________| Romney | Gingrich | Santorum | Paul | Obama

True________|__19%__|___8%__|___13%__|_23%_|__24%

Mostly True___|__16%__|__10%__|___4%___|_23%_|__23%

Half True_____|__27%__|__23%__|__33%___|_16%_|__25%

Mostly False___|__13%__|_19%__|__25%___|_13%_|__12%

False________|__15%__|__21%__|__17%___|_19%_|__15%

Pants on Fire__|__9%___|__19%__|__8%___|__8%__|__1%

(everything is rounded to nearest whole number)

The reason politicians lie is because that is what politicians do, just like they kiss babies, promise voters the moon, and are without morals.

hs321 - About the only way I can think of to stop a politician from lying is to sew or staple their mouth shut.

There is a slight anatomical problem, that is not the end that they are talking out of.

anti-trust proponent - Here is one way to begin to stop all of the lying

That will not, as they will lie about the money aspects anyway.

The only way I can figure out how to stop the Congress from lying is by our Congressional Representatives being chosen at Random, then vetted like Jury Duty. Term Limits. Lobbyists and Special Interests completely Illegal (Felony Criminal). Paid a National Average of Middle Class. etc. (previously posted at other Newsvine Topic). Elimination of Electoral College.

The other thing that needs to happen, is a hoard of Lawyers (trained Liars by profession) need to sue the Politicians for breech of verbal contract(s).

Political Facts from NYT and Washington Post, what a big lie, those are the most left wing bias media newsalond with all the MSN news group, that is the place where journalism ends. If WP and NYT say the truth, Obama won't be reelected.

I saw duct-tape suggested above; but not even Red Green himself could control the nonsense that comes out of our current crop of politicians.

Because critical thinking has been replaced by Google "hang outs" and a no-credentials-necessary attitude when it comes to choosing a President. Because a one-dimensional, no-nothing with the right skin color is thought to be in touch with the American dream despite the fact that he attends one of the most racist churches in the country for over 20 years and has never had a firm position on anything put before him while in the senate and his community organizer position put him in touch with some of the biggest crooks in the city of Chicago. But he dresses cool and likes Twitter and he has a good vocabulary and is media savvy so he must be the right guy to run our country. Wake up America and look at this man...he's a disgrace and has no clue how to run a country. Send him on to his next job - maybe a judge on American Idol - where he can get all the idolization he needs and wants. BO stinks and so do his policies! Bye, bye BO - don't let the door...

@disgusted to the max - According to most polls, the American public disagrees with you and sides with Obama compared to the republican candidates. Romney even said on a radio broadcast recently that "things are already getting better" and when host Laura Ingraham asked why he would say that, he responded "It just happens to be the truth." There you have it, even the guy who will probably be Obama's competition thinks we're already on the way to recovery.

We are in the way of recovery not because the economic policies of this administrations, is because Americans want to see their country better, but we could be much better without Obamanomic policies that create more obstacles and slow our recovery. So I'm positive that a new administration will bring a much faster return to our prosperity.

More importantly, how do we keep politicians from promising $$ for votes??!!

Tim-1040943,

Stop making sh!t up, WHAT ARE YOU A POLITICIAN.

From the Article:

For Barack Obama:
President Obama, you've said that most of the money for your campaign came from small donors, that you've excluded lobbyists from policy-making jobs, that you haven't raised taxes once.

All false, according to PolitiFact.

You've claimed that your opponents plan to cut funding for Israel to zero. PolitiFact rated that claim "Pants on Fire," its lowest rating.

"One theme we've seen in Obama's statements," says PolitiFact's Bill Adair, "is that he is exaggerating how he has fulfilled promises. We know this, of course, because we keep track of all 500+ promises on our Obameter."

So you show me where: You've claimed that your opponents plan to cut funding for Israel to zero. PolitiFact rated that claim "Pants on Fire," its lowest rating.

Is reflected in your bogus made up numbers. Sounds to me that YOUR "Pants are on Fire".

PolitiFact, seems to be the Wikipedia of Politics:

Wikipedia General Disclaimer: WIKIPEDIA MAKES NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer

As to why if I were Stateside Teaching any Student using Wikipedia as a Reference (without actually researching the Wikipedia Article's References) would get a grade of F- from me, after reading many of the "opinions" (Gross Exaggerations aka Lies) used as References by some of the Wikipedia Articles Authors. Students Failing attempts to teach them Cognitive Research Skills and Cognitive Skills; as usually, a "one shot deal" in the Real World Life or Death School of Hard Knocks as either winning the Darwin Award or if "On the Job" at the very minimum Fired.

Politics is tricky because many of the issues are very large, complicated issues with many different factors and it is hard to be a good politician when you have 2 minutes to respond to the question of taxes. Bumper Sticker phrases are easy for people to remember and repeat so politicians use them to try and make points even thought their statements aren't completely true. It is to hard and boring to explainthe economic down turn had many different factors that contributed to it which had different politicians that had a hand in it. It's easier to say it's "Wall Streets Fault" It's "Freddie and Fannie fault" It's "The Community Reinvestment Act's fault!" Don't blame the politicians for the average American having the attention span of a fly. We are a sound bite nation who reads headlines to get our news, politicians are simply trying to work with what they got.

How do we stop politicians from lying? lets see, my first thought was sew their mouths shut, but that won't work, they can still write and type. The only way to stop them from lying is to kill 'em all (NO, I am not condoning that). But then they would just be replaced by another pack of liars.

Now if we can get investigative reporters to do some fact checking on their sources. A quick check of PolitiFact finds a heavily slanted group of "fact checkers". Read some of their ratings and then check their sources and see if you do not believe me. Many times their source does not agree with their rating. But they do not seem to let facts get in the way of their rating system. This is even worse than the polititions, you expect the polititions to lie, not an organization that claims to shine a light on the truth. I guess it keeps their ad revenue coming in!

Attach them to a tazer. Any time they lie to the public, they get zapped. That should at least reduce the lying...

Actually David, if you had read and understood what is in that amendment, you would realize that it is a great start towards correcting our election problems.....and here is why:

Section 2. The contract with the voters makes them liable in court for failure to uphold what they stated as their position on every possible issue they might face if elected.

Section 4. Limits on both individual and family donations and then the subsequent limitations on the amount a candidate can spend of his/her own money will limit what can be spent on any federal campaign.

Sections 5 & 6 ban all corporate, union, non-profit, PAC and Super PAC, etc. campaign contributions AND third-party advertising.

Section 11 bans all lobbyists from influence in Congress at all times, not just in election cycles.

David,

Your knee jerk dismissal of Tim's stats is a clear example of why politicians get away with lying. You'll believe whatever you want to believe and lies will justify your beliefs.

Tim's stats were correct. Out of the 341 fact checks on Obama, 81 have been rated as "True." This is approximately 24% which is higher than all of the Republican candidates. Tim made no mention of the quality or subjectivity that is involved in Politi-fact's ratings. Nor did he dispute any of the information that this article states to be true. The five "pants on fire" judgements equate to just 1% of Obama's statements that Politi-fact checked.

So David, lets see if you have enough integrity to apologize, or at least concede that the following statements were unwarranted:

Stop making sh!t up, WHAT ARE YOU A POLITICIAN.

---------------------------

So you show me where: You've claimed that your opponents plan to cut funding for Israel to zero. PolitiFact rated that claim "Pants on Fire," its lowest rating.

Is reflected in your bogus made up numbers. Sounds to me that YOUR "Pants are on Fire".

affinity, you know Politifact cannot be trusted when Libs say it is skewed to the right, and the Conservatives say it is skewed to the left.

I would really like to hear those who proclaim the skewing support their allegations with any Politifact analysis that they happen to agree with.

Peace

Wow -- not only do we need someone to tell us what to think - we need someone to tell us if what we are told to think is true or false.

At one time in our history people thought for themselves. At one time in our history people made their own judgement about truth.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."

I consider Half True to be basically false, but with another truth added, to try to make it look good. Therefore we can add True and Mostly True, then subtract the rest to see how honest they are overall.

Overall percent Truthfull:
Paul 0% (A little crazy, but neutral as far as honesty.)
Obama -6% (Yes the rest of these guys are all negative, more lies than truth.)
Santorum -66%
Gingrich -64%
Romney -29%

Looks about correct for politicians.

Bounty, not that it matters but by those standards and method of calculation, your numbers are slightly off (mostly overstating Ron Paul's "rated truthfulness")...

Obama: -7% (-25/341)

Paul: -12.5% (-4/32)

Romney: -29% (-32/110)

Gingrich: -61% (-41/51)

Santorum: -67% (-16/24)

For the record Im not endorsing the method you chose or Politi-fact's validity.

Make political lying = Treason!

Someone here said it before: ignore the lies, just vote on their actions.

Last Republican president and a Republican Congress (6 out of 8 years): doubled our US debt in 8 years, entered a war based on absolute lies, trashed the American economy.

I'd go on, but I think that is enough said! Don't think I'm voting Republican this fall!

Thanks for putting the PolitiFact numbers in chart form, Tim.

Their results demonstrate that Obama is the most honest, and Gingrich is the least honest.

This comes as no surprise.

I certainly trust PolitiFact and Factcheck.org and snopes more than the candidates. They also provide references for their analysis, something foreign to Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, O'Reilly, et al. I would really like the real time fact check, but it's really on the other debater to be informed enough to challenge the falsehoods. Besides, people hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe based on their preconceived notions. You could slap some people in the face with facts and they would still deny them. A Thomas Jefferson said, ""The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory."

Another of his quotes: "Whenever a man has cast a longing eye on offices, a rottenness begins in his conduct."

Yes, Max, let's cut off support for our only real ally in a region where they are surrounded by enemies bent on their destruction - and who are no friends of ours either.

And if we are going to cut off aid to Israel, I assume you are also in support of cutting off aid to EVERYBODY else in the world, including all the friggin' money we sent to those crooks in the UN?

Yes grilled I support cutting aid to everybody but ourselves, take care of us then we'll talk about everyone else

That's great, 1SGFitz, but I didn't ask you the question, I asked Max. Because HE seems to only be interested in cutting support to Israel, as he was quite specific about it. And if he is ONLY interested in cutting support to Israel, than his motivations for that naturally become suspect.

Yes, we should also cut aid to other countries in Middle East, like Egypt, that we kept bribing for years to be nice to Israel.

Israel is NOT an ally - it is a parasite which only takes and takes. Allies are countries like Britain, France, Australia, Italy, who actually SUPPORT US with boots on the ground. Israel never did that. There are no US military bases in Israel either - they do not want us there - all they want is US money and military technology they later sell for profit to countries like China and other US enemies.

Israel has provided plenty of bogus intelligence to justify the invasion of Iraq - something Israel wanted real bad because of Saddam's active support for the Palestinian cause.

To all those people who are wanting us to withdraw all aid except for in the US need to remember that nukes exploded in the Middle East WILL cause fall out throughout the world. There isn't an invisible bubble surrounding the US. There are way too many nukes out there to allow us to stick our heads in the sand and ignore everyone else. That is why we need to support Israel because as soon as we stop, we might as well push the launch button ourselves.

Max, good try on the Iraq info farce. Bush wanted to invade to finish what is papa wasn't allowed to do. He didn't need any help from Israel in falsifying any of the intelligence. Please show support for your supposition.

Max - and I could say that it was very possible that Saddam HAD all those WMDs - but the UN played footsie for so long with him that he had plenty of time to get rid of them. Let's not forget that he HAD them and HAD used them before - on his own d*mn people.

We didn't go to war with Iraq based solely on Israeli intelligence. You are a silly man who will say anything to try and defend your indefensible position.

And ConcernedCitizen has it exactly right. If we withdraw our support for Israel, it will only encourage Israel's enemies to attack them. And if Israel even SUSPECTS that such an attack is imminent - they will launch their nukes. If Israel goes down, the entire middle east will go with her. And not only will we be dealing with an unbelievable nuclear holocaust - all those middle east oil fields will go up in flames as well. Still think we should withdraw support for Israel, Max?

Yes, if we withdraw our support Israel will be forced to make peace with the neighbors and act in a responsible manner when it comes to Palestinian cause. Right now Israel is thumbing their nose at everybody because they have this big attack dog on the leash: US.

I understand wanting to reduce our deficit by cutting on "gifts", that is such a sensible thing to do when working out a personal family budget.... but this is not a personal family budget. We get things back from that money, they are not really gifts, but investments. There is always a reason behind foreign aid even if it it not clear to the general population; it is not just a gift out of the goodness of our heart. We are basically buying stability, information, goodwill, political outcome, or financial outcome.

The amount could probably be decreased and spent more efficiently.

Ron Paul, and other candidates, may say he wants to cut it altogether, but if he ever got to office he would quickly realize that he's "not in Kansas anymore" and that's not how the world works. The economy is a world economy now, rolling back to protectionism and isolation will only cause economic recession and probably trade wars.

Again. Max, your ignorance as to the history of the region is downright appalling. And if you are going to take such a vigerous stance against Israel but remain that ignorant, yes, you ARE a disgusting bigot.

The FACTS Max, are that Israel's enemies have repeatedly refused Israel's right to exist. They have no interest whatsoever in making nice with Israel and will settle for nothing less than the total destruction of Israel. And you are either really stupid if you don't already know that - or you DO know that, and you are PLAYING stupid because Israel's destruction would be just fine with you, because, after all, you are a raging anti-semite.

Israel's enemies will NEVER make peace with Israel, no matter how many concessions she makes. And only a total fool like you would keep insisting otherwise. And like I said, the entire middle east will go up in flames if Israel's enemies ever get the idea in their heads to go ahead with nuke attacks on Israel. Does Iran ring any bells for you, moron?

And seriously, Max, you're calling me a traitor? What exactly is your justification for that? Because I called you out on your obvious anti-semitism? You are such a pathetic little twit.

Max-

Someone disagreeing with you does not make them a traitor. Nor does you disagreeing with them make you a patriot. I really wish we could stop throwing these kinds of labels around just because we don't have a reasonable rebuttal to their points.

Someone who acts for the benefit of another country at the expense and detriment of their own, is called a TRAITOR by definition. Many, many times US politicians and various misguided Bible-thumpers like Hagee organize support for Israel at great cost and detriment to US interests. They are all traitors in my book.

Grilledcheese - I consider people like you traitors because you support Israel's interests over American interests and at their expense, and I assume you are an American. Islamic terrorists target US to a large extent because of US blind support for Israel. US is giving Israel billions of dollars every year in direct help (to the tune of almost $25,000 per person) and in loan guarantees that US invariably has to pay in the end. What do we get in return? IMO absolutely nothing of value.

Your name calling is childish and indicates extreme partiality on this issue. If it was China who was a parasite on my country (and they are, through the monetary and trade policy), I would see it exactly the same way. I don't care any more about Israel than I care about Syria or some other barbarous country in ME. They can do whatever they want, but not on US taxpayer dime.

Right, maxie, than every single politician who sends money overseas to ANYONE that we do not receive anything in return for is a traitor in your book. You are a serious mental case. And again, we DO receive things in exchange for the money we give Israel. We do NOT receive a single benefit in exchange for all the aid we send to all those African countries, Haiti, etc. Yet, once again, you focus your wrath almost entirely on Israel, all the while completely ignoring the facts surrounding the region because it's not convenient for you. You make me sick.

Max, you are a bald-faced liar. You DON'T care about cutting money off to ANYONE other than Israel - because that was the one and only recipient of U.S. largesse that you targeted in your original rant. You only made pathetic little attempts to cover your a$$ after I called you out on your obvous bigotted bias. You have absolutely no credibility no matter how much you try to back-pedal now. You are only digging yourself a deeper hole and making things look even worse for yourself. You've been exposed. Deal with it.

I do believe in humanitarian aid to countries in real need, if it is spent wisely, of course. I would not oppose humanitarian aid to Israel if they needed it - they are the same people as everyone else.

Really Max, NOW you believe in "humanitarian aid"? What happened to (YOUR WORDS):

"Someone who acts for the benefit of another country at the expense and detriment of their own, is called a TRAITOR by definition."

And Israelis are the same people as everyone else? What happened to (again, YOUR WORDS):

"the only candidate who will cut off the aid to the US parasite state of Israel"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Agency_for_International_Development

Here's a link you should take a look at, Max, we gave Pakistan AND Afghanistan more than TWICE as much money as we gave Israel in 2010. Why aren't you beating your chest about THOSE "parasites." We ALSO gave a sh*tload of money to a whole bunch of OTHER countries including EGYPT, THE WEST BANK/GAZA. and COLUMBIA. So what, maxie, it's only HUMANITARIAN when it goes to ANY other country BESIDES Israel?!? Hmmm, max?

Hey GrilledCheese, how exactly does refuting the notion of sending foreign aid to Israel make one an anti-semite??

I really don't give two s--ts about Israel's government, nor the notion of Zionism....but that is not a reflection upon Judaism or the Jews themselves. Just their country's policies.

Just because I have disdain for China's domestic policies, it doesn't mean I am racist against asian people. I don't like how Iran is running their government, but it doesn't mean I have any hostility towards Persians. It does not take a genius to sort this out.

Because I'm quite sure YOU would love to stop sending all aid to Pakistan, right? So, does that make you an anti-Persian/Muslim??

You know, after all these years of hearing the same BS about how Israel is our "friend and ally", I still haven't figured out what exactly we get in return for sending 3 billion in aid to them every year. You say we get intelligence information....yeah, I suppose we do. Of course, we also get info from all of our other allies as well, even from China and Russia depending on the situation. WE give ISRAEL plenty of info as well. Quid Pro Quo, my friend. Oh, and we don't have to send France, England, or Germany any money for their intelligence briefs, either. Hmmm.

So, GrilledCheese, unless you can offer some tangible support for WHY we should continue to allow Israel to dominate our foreign policy, I'd say you have no argument left.

But then again, you can always just falsely accuse me of anti-semitism if you like, because it's the only leg you have left to stand on.

Just remember, the majority of Israel's Jewish population are European by heritage. The modern Palestinians actually have more blood relations with the original Semites than the Israelis themselves. So, when you blindly support Israel's aggression towards the Palestinian community, YOU in essence, are the anti-semite. Go ahead, go look it up.........

grilledcheesesandwich

Yes, Max, let's cut off support for our only real ally

===========

................and what specifically have they done FOR US that qualifies them as an ally?

Hey GCS- I checked out the Wiki link you gave us.....

Yes, we gave Israel $0.59B in aid during the 2010 fiscal year. Keep in mind this is the aid we gave Israel through the USAID program, which is what your link was referring to. That figure does not include the MILITARY AID we send them every year.

Here, in the same article-

"$4.8 billion for foreign military financing to the Middle East, Latin America, Europe and Eurasia, including $2.6 billion for Israel" (in 2009)

Okay, so granted, the data for humanitarian aid versus military support are not within the same year, but we have been sending Israel about $3B a year for many years running. Somehow, with our hawkish "leaders" fomenting another war of aggression (this time against Iran), I'm sure this aid figure will not change in the near future. In all likelihood, it will increase.

We'll see.

Got any other links with which you'd like to falsely mislead others??

TO: grilledcheesesandwich who wrote:

"Max - and I could say that it was very possible that Saddam HAD all those WMDs..."

No, you could NOT say that "it was very possible that Saddam HAD all those WMDs" because it's already been proven, over and over again, that Saddam DIDN'T have any WMDs.

Why would anyone say that when you know it's NOT true?

Even George W. Bush asknowledged that there were/are NO Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq.

What is it with those carnival barkers who stay stuck on a lie?

Obama / Biden 2012

iam more worried about the "corp" press lying all day long.

if it wasnt for the internet there would be no ron paul or freedom movement

the press-a-tudes think if they lie to u all day long and that will make there lies become real.

time to break up the press,by turning that tv off or occupy them until the truth is aired and get the corp out of OUR media

Fact Check should be extended to track all the promises offer for a candidate once they are elected. I guess reelection will be almost impossible.

To stop the politicians from lying, we must pull all their teeth and sew their mouth shut.

Set up debates so candidates are under oath and disqualified from elections when they lie. A good second step would be to impeach anyone who lies while in office. Fact checking is great but I don't think you can rely on any authoritative source for information. These sources are fallable and often track information that cannot be proven. Fact-checkers should leave some issues alone, since there is often only conjecture and readers will take it as fact. I also think candidates would lie a lot less if elections weren't bought. They have too much pressure to lie from contributors.

I agree that all candidates from both sides of the aisle should be asked to respond to statements that they have made that have been deemed to be factually wrong. But that assessment should not just be in the hands of PolitiFact, there are a number of other Fact Checking Organizations and the determinations of false statements should be based on the aggregate of them.

And they should be placed in the position of having to respond, on national TV in a froum like a debate. Lets see what a little shame does for the rest of their claims.

Politics is tricky because many of the issues are very large, complicated issues with many different factors and it is hard to be a good politician when you have 2 minutes to respond to the question of taxes. Bumper Sticker phrases are easy for people to remember and repeat so politicians use them to try and make points even thought their statements aren't completely true. It is to hard and boring to explainthe economic down turn had many different factors that contributed to it which had different politicians that had a hand in it. It's easier to say it's "Wall Streets Fault" It's "Freddie and Fannie fault" It's "The Community Reinvestment Act's fault!" Don't blame the politicians for the average American having the attention span of a fly. We are a sound bite nation who reads headlines to get our news, politicians are simply trying to work with what they got.

Maybe during the debates, we should have a buzzer with a big neon sign that says "LIAR" each time a candidate spews his/her bullsh!t.

Then again, the buzzer would probably burn up before the debate ended. Same should go for the media, I stopped watching most news programs because they follow their political agendas instead of basically, well, telling the real news.

Max^108,

Sounds like you were subject to the Mandatory School Curriculum at most Islamic Nations; like I was when I went to College at Egypt to learn Arabic and later on to learn Islam (taught in Arabic), as Hitler's Mein Kampf taught as a Success Story, and the Blame the Jews for everything, "Protocols of the Wise Elders of Zion".

To date Israel has been decreasing the numbers of the Islamic Jihadists off our backs here at Afghanistan, and previously at Iraq.

You REALLY need to Research Amim Al Husseini: 1. His Representation of the Islamic World and the Islamic World's Alliance (Forever) to Hitler, 1933, mutual goal extermination of the Jews., 2. His Pan Arabic Plan, as the movement of Arabs into Palestine while removing the original inhabitants of Orthodox Christians and Jews after hearing that the Jews were coming, most of the Arabs were moved from Jordan, and Egypt into Palestine (mostly Arabs that were not wanted in those Nations, as Palestine was not improved by the Jews at that time, this is why at the Palestinian Refugee Camps at Jordan the Palestinian Refugees are treated like Criminals and not allowed to mix in with the Jordanian Population.)., 3. Amim Al Husseini's founding of the Arab League of Nations to "Force the Jews into the Sea"., 4. After the Arab League of Nations FAILED to force the Jews into the Sea, and the Arab League of Nations lost Gaza, West Bank, Palestine, parts of Lebanon, parts of Jordan, parts of Egypt, Sinai, etc. after attacking Israel; Amim Al Husseini forms the Palestinian Liberation Organization to violently attack the Jews using Terrorism, the PLO evolves into Hamas after the PLO Failed., 5. To keep the hatred of the Jews going he convinces most of the Arab League of Nations Members to have the Mandatory School Curriculum of Hitler's Mein Kampf taught as a Success Story as sabotaged by the Jews, and the Blame the Jews for everything, "Protocols of the Wise Elders of Zion"., 6. His Influence throughout the "Islamic World" can be seen with Nassar, later becoming the President of Egypt, the formation of Political Party Young Egypt and their Hitler NAZI Party slogan of "One People, One Nation, One Leader", and then the Muslim Brotherhood based on the Para Military Arm of the NAZI Party, the Sturmabteilung (SA aka Brown Shirts, later superseded by the Schutzstaffel (SS))., 7. Lots more learned while learning Islam at College at Egypt as Mandatory School Curriculum or be expelled.

So Max^108 of course you knew all of the above or are you that uneducated or knowing all of the above outright lying as Islamic Taqiya (Lies to Advance Islam).

Indy Patriot-1934313,

As far as the US Aid Money sent to Israel, the majority has been used for the Development of many of the US Advanced Weapons Technology, and the rest used to Counter Islamic Jihadist Terrorist Activities for the US. examples: The Armor on the M1 Abrams tank, as adopted from the Israelis Merkava. Israelis proof of viability for the US of the German Rheinmetall 120mm Main Battle Tank Gun. Various Avionics, like recently the Israelis "Package" for the US F-35, without this Israelis "Package" US Ally Saudi Arabia will not buy the F-35 as Foreign Military Sales from the US (hundreds of Billions of USDs, and over 95,000 US Jobs lost). The Israelis Electronics Counter Measures "Package" as used on their modified US A-4s. US Military Kevlar Helmets as previously the Israelis Rabintex's Shachar Bernard (R-ACH) Helmet. There are many more examples (the classified one's would fill this Forum).

Bottomline: US Gets more back from Israel than what the US sends as US Aid to Israel. That does not include the amount Israel spends in the form of Foreign Military Sales (FMS) buying Multiple Billions from the US (US actually makes profits and employs more US Citizens for many decades manufacturing Repair Parts, conducting Factory Level Maintenance, Upgrades, Modifications, Rebuilds, Retrofits, etc.). This is the same thing that President FDR realized that US Consumerism would never get the US out of the Great Depression and that the US sale of "War Materials" could and did, 1939, as manufactured by his creation, the US Military Defense Industrial Complex, years before US Entry into WWII, 1941; after his New Deal to the American People also failed (US Government spending money did not have to create jobs). Honestly, think of this, how many Apple iPhones would you have to sell to equal just ONE Made In US F-15 sold to US Ally Saudi Arabia (offsetting part of US Trade Deficits of Saudi Arabian Oil).

Ahhh the moronic ole WMD argument again from the loony left. Reality check for you revisionist historians, EVERY Dem in Congress believed Saddam had WMD's and said so BEFORE Bush was even in office . Prior to Bush's election, Clinton, Pelosi , Reid, Albright were on every major news network repeating President Clinton's statements that he did have them. TWO weeks prior to the election, President Clinton had a special nationally televised speech laying out the fact that Saddam had WMD's and stated that he must be stopped, with force if necessary.

Now that Bush used the same intelligence that Clinton had spouted for the 4 years prior to his election, you people either are ignorant of Clinton's assertions or are just so deceitful and amoral that you would lie about facts you know are false. With the ObamaBinLyin 2012 moniker behind your name, I lean toward the latter.

It should be legal for a voter to file suit against any politician that they vote for that lied during the campaign. People make their decisions on who to vote for based on their stated positions on various issues effecting this country. When a politician reverses themselves after they are elected it means that they essentially committed fraud to obtain votes. People should have the right to seek damages for this theft of their vote through fraud. This would put a stop to all the lying. Imagine if a politician had to defend themselves against millions of lawsuits for fraud seeking damages. This wold really put a crimp in their bank accounts and their ability to ever run for office again.

I also think we need to change the law so that the only ones that can give to a political campaign are those who are able to cast a vote in the related election. No more corporate donations since corporations don't vote. No more money from outside of the district or state influencing election since only voters in the district can donate to a congressional candidate and only voters in that state can give to senatorial candidates. The amount of the donations should be limited to $250 per voter as well to keep the wealthy from buying elections. Also, due away with all of these PAC and super PACs. Only the actual candidates should be able to run ads and that way the candidates can be held responsible for the content of the ads, they can not claim with a wink that the PAC did it without their knowledge. This would take all the big money out of politics and put the election of representatives back in the hands of the people they are supposed to represent.

More than simply lying, Mr. Obama is much more highly skilled at not fully answering a question, although hiding his non-answer behind a forceful statement. In a recent interview in "Time / Newsweek" ( I forget which )...he was asked why he totally rejected the findings of the Bowles-Simpson debt commission...he forcefully responded with mild outrage and offered "I'm the person who put the commission together in the first place".

Duly noted and outrage accepted.

But he did even get into the neighborhood of an actual answer.

As per the norm with Mr. Obama...the reporter moved on to his next question.

Only Ron Paul wants to cut aid to Israel. The rest is guilt by association. As for politifact, I've noticed that they draw inferences from statements that aren't really justified, so I don't trust them that much either.

How do we make candidates tell the truth? Constitutional amendment? I don't know. This has been a problem from before day 1 in the U.S. The better question is how do we make the electorate informed enough to know a lie when they hear it.

It would be simpler to just Duck-tape their mouths shut until they are out of office. Then it would not matter what they said.

The answer to the question posed is DUCT TAPE!!!

theCav...

Informed electorate is this country ? Not going to happen...about a third pay attention. Another third is too busy balancing thier use of electronic trinkets. The final third just have no interest.

Newspapers are shrinking or going out of business. 'Newsweek' sold for $1 a few years ago and I'm not talking about a single issue. In defense of all the electronic toys people are spending half their time with, for a while we heard "who needs newspapers, etc...people get their news off the internet". However 'Google' stated that "news" accounted for 2% of all searches in 2011.

"Informed electorate" has been going downhill for years and it will only get worse. It's the one thing I give Ron Paul credit for...he does have a barrel of young folks paying some attention.

American Girl-724855,

You want to know where that Weapons of Mass Destruction crap came from. The Liar, "I did not have sex with that woman" (his sperm on the front of her blue dress).

Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation's wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job, finding and destroying more of Iraq's arsenal than was destroyed during the entire gulf war. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein, "You cannot defy the will of the world", and when I say to him, "You have used weapons of mass destruction before; we are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again.

This is where that Weapons of Mass Destruction crap came from NOT Bush. Again in writing, US Law, H.R. 4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998", scroll down to Section 2 "Findings", JUSTIFICATION WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, later on H.R.4655 after US Military Operation Desert Fox, H.R.4655 becomes US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom 1998 to 2011:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts

American Girl-724855 - Obama / Biden 2012

Not after he praised the US Military, then in the next breath backstabbed the US Military and US Military Retirees (many with lots of influence worldwide ever since WWII) during his 2012 State of the Union Address; if you don't believe this go watch the whole thing on youtube.com. President Obama also dumped the blame on "the People" instead of accepting Responsibility as US President and US Military Commander In Chief. Think about how many US Congressional Representatives are sh!tting bricks wondering if the US Military Installations in their States will be closed (loss of US Citizens Jobs and a steady income for their States).

Do you want to know what President Obama's biggest lie is, his Health Care Reform Act:

What did he get, $1 Billion of Unlimited Campaign Contributions, as his buddy legal briefed the US Supreme Court before the Citizens United Case even reached the US Supreme Court, as either rule in favor of the Unlimited Campaign Contributions or the US Supreme Court must Rule the 2008-2009 Elections invalid for his violations of US Law, McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act prior to and during the 2008-2009 Election.

What did the Insurance Industry, Medical Device Industry, and Pharmaceuticals Industry get from President Obama's Health Care Reform Act; Section of Source of New Revenues to compensate for their future losses, $67 Billion Insurance Industry, $20 Billion Medical Device Industry, and $23 Billion Pharmaceuticals Industry.

What did the US Citizens get, a Budget Deficit for President Obama's Not Budgeted for Health Care Reform of $1.7 Trillion to $2.1 Trillion; as stated by President Obama, "would not cost the US Taxpayers anything". Resulting in US Congress having to find the money for President Obama's Health Care Reform Act (their job), so now all the Budget Cuts of previously Budgeted US Programs and US Projects, including the US Military Department of Defense Budgets for the US Infrastructure Projects and Programs within the US of the US Army Corps of Engineers, just like the Levees before Katrina; and the dredging of US Streams and Rivers with the Floods as a result, and the lack of funds to build more water reservoirs resulting droughts. Increased Insurance Premiums, so that the Insurance Corporations do not lose money; price increases by the Medical Device Industry and Pharmaceuticals Industry.

What the US Citizens did not get, as what the long time proponent for Health Care Reform, Senator Kennedy (RIP) wanted, Universal Health Care for all US Citizens, US Citizens would pay $50 for Unlimited Medical Treatments. This was similar to President FDR's Universal Health Care for All US Citizens as done by eliminating the Insurance Corporations out of the Medical Profession resulting in the decrease of Medical Treatments by 80%. As stated by President Obama, Face the Nation, September 20, 2009:

Obama: No, the difference is that they're making huge profits on it, Bob. I mean, let's take the Medicare HMO programs that are being run by insurance companies. It's estimated by everybody that they're overcharging by about 14 percent. This amounts to about $177 billion over 10 years. About $17 billion a year, $18 billion a year. That's just going to pad their profits, hasn't been shown to make Medicare recipients any healthier. And in fact because those huge subsidies are going to insurance companies, Medicare recipients are not getting a good deal. Now if we are enforcing what should be the rules around Medicare and making sure the people are getting a bang for the buck, it's not going to be possible for insurance companies to simply pass on those costs to Medicare recipients because ultimately it's Uncle Sam that's paying for those services anyway.

President Obama sugarcoats the fact that the US Citizens are being gyped (Fraud) by the Insurance Corporations by saying "Uncle Sam" instead of US Citizens (US Taxpayers).

The lie of Candidate Obama that affected us (US Military), "if elected, I will get the US Military out of Iraq by December 31, 2009", result more of us (US Military) dead after 2 additional years. And what, our years of involvement resulted in what, the loss of Iraq to Iran due to President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy, Iran can do anything without US Interventions and Iran did; Result all US Military killed at Iraq since the 1980s for NOTHING, because of President Obama (and do not say Bush's Withdrawal Timetable as President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy changed the situation at Iraq and President Obama completely ignores his experts, SOS Clinton (one of many reasons for her recent announcement she is getting out of Politics), previous Secretary of Defense Gates (one of the reasons he quit), the US Military at Iraq and Afghanistan (Firing of General McKiernan and General McChrystal; deals he had to make with General Petraeus and Leon Penetta), the US Department of State at Iraq, etc..).

redvirginia - Fact Check

Go Follow their Money to maintain their expensive internet website. You will not like what you find out.

How is it that people running for congress can lie to voters and not be charged with fraud, when if I lied to congress I would be jailed?

So it is free speech for the government to lie to the people, but a crime for the people to lie to the government?

And the Jewish Lobby arrives; David475776. Any time anyone brings up Isreal, David shows up (must be his assigned duties at the JL) and takes the subject to its extremes.

David; you could at least post like a real human and not a bunch of pre printed Text Manuals the JL has provided you. What happened in the 1930's and what the USA does for Israel today are apples and oranges. Lawyer talk is never absorbed at a public forum - even when you take it as a college course it is forced - so these pre authorized propaganda messages the JL gives you, are worthless. Nobody is going to spend an hour trying to decipher legal code.

grilledcheese; if you didn't start and end every post with personal attacks - you would make a stronger case for your side. Human nature says: oh yeah name caller - take this back...is that what you want your message to be?

There is an unwritten law in America that says you have to be a part of certain systems/groups to be considered for funds to run for office - you may be elected at lower levels on just your good intentions - but you get the unwritten memo very quickly from the higher ups that if you want to advance from there - it is our way or the hi-way.

The divide between RULERS and citizens of all Countries is beyond correction from a voting approach....simple majority has been eliminated through legal bs. Like it or not - the OWS and Tea Party approach may be our last resort - and both of those are rumored to have been infiltrated...so basically any attempt by any citizen group, no matter where in the World, is futile unless done at the highest extreme. Even then, as in the recent happenings in places like Egypt - you still have to deal with a military leadership, which guess what - is led by the same un-seen corruption you just evicted. Note in Davids manuscript how it all comes back to military influence.

We need a new World Order for sure - one led by CITIZENS of the World - not by Corporations and military might. It isn't average citizens leading the hatred of each other - it is delivered by those in control - there is always some loudmouth at the podium/pulpit that is stirring up the masses. The few have all the power and the masses are too willing to back what is the worst for them selves in order to preserve some inner ideology.

We be all crazy...I used to be all messed up on drugs - then I found politics - now I'm all messed up on politics.

I would like to make a small point of etiquette. It is improper to refer to Gingrich as "Speaker" or "Congressman" since he left those positions in disgrace. It is also improper to refer to Sarah Palin as "Governor" because she did not complete her term. There honorifics are only for people who faithfully and properly discharged their duties and left with "the good graces of the office." It would be proper, however, to refer to Gingrich as Dr. Gingrich on all occasions since his was an earned PhD. Just etiquiette --- it shows proper upbringing.

drainbramage, aka braindamage.

And the Jewish Lobby arrives; David475776.

Does my name mean I am Jewish, does that make the President of the US, Barack Hussein Obama a Arabic Omani Muslim Lobbyist, that is your f**ked up illogical nonsense (without nonsense you would have no sense). ARE YOU THAT F**KING INSANE? I really want to know.

drainbramage - David; you could at least post like a real human and not a bunch of pre printed Text Manuals the JL has provided you.

Really, I did not know that SOS Clinton and the US Department of State were part of whatever the JL is. I post RESEARCHED FACTS, NOT your emotive non factual uneducated nonsense opinions.

drainbramage - What happened in the 1930's and what the USA does for Israel today are apples and oranges.

What the F**K is wrong with you. That Islamic World Alliance With Hitler was for eternity and the hatred continues for current and future Generations as established by Amim Al Husseini thru the CURRENT Mandatory School Curriculum at Islamic Nations.

Seems you cannot even add two nickels together and come up with the correct answer of a dime.

drainbramage...I used to be all messed up on drugs

I told everyone before that you were on drugs based on your Newsvine Posts, and now you finally admit that. So you lost too many irreplaceable brain cells.

LMAO; it was you that said you were once a Crack-head. I guess I still have enough brain cells to remember that...pretty sure in my history log I can find that post of yours.

Israel has a major Crack problem...pretty sure I can find that documentary too.

I know it's the same David by his potty mouth.

Would you like a urine sample - I'm on legal pain killers from actually working for a living as a laborer for 25 years - but good luck finding anything illegal in my system.

Looking forward to your next tantrum:)

Entered into evidence - notice the difference from when David posts from his JL manual and when he posts with his own words.

Entered into evidence - last week when conservative posters where throwing around the term "Japs", did David defend the Japanese. We the USA concentrated them, yet they didn't react the way David reacts when anyone mentions Jewish people.

I can find countless numbers of Internet links pointing out how the Jews and Israel have damaged others, a friend recently sent me an article about how since Israel has banned Palestinians from being their Mexican slave labor force to work the produce fields - Israel has had to start importing workers from Vietnam and Thailand to work their fields.

This is not an attack on Israel any more (as someone above pointed out) than any other article on any other Country or group of people...to react as David does shows he is only defensive of Jews and Israel - and as I've pointed out to him in the past; the average Jew and the Jewish Lobby are not anywhere near being the same thing.

David must still be holding grudges against Vikings, and Romans, and any other group that ever ruled the planet. The idea that Israel and Jews are the same victims as they were in 1933 is laughable - I'd be more than happy to provide evidence that they have turned the tables and then some over the last 80 years.

Conservatives and the victim card - sheesh.

Jim in Auburn...

You noticed the one way street citizens live on ! Didn't Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and others end up in hot water not for being convicted of a crime, but for 'lying to Congress'....a Congress that has the time to waste on lengthy hearings with profesional sports figures and plenty of time to campaign for re-election...but not enough time to effectively work on what ails the American economy.

As for "lying"...my quite liberal state of Connecticut recently and overwhelmingly elected a new United States Senator ( Richard Blumenthal ) despire the fact that he got exposed during his campaign for repeatedly lying about his military service ( "When I returned from Vietnam..." ) (WhenI served in Vietnam...). His only problem ??? He was lying...and our fine Democrat electorate just served him up his new job without so much as a whimper.

They fixed Pinocchio's wagon pretty good, didn't they?

Of course, with Newt they could chose a different body part, his nose already spreads all over his [fart] face.

They might take a move from the Gong Show, and 'hook' any speakers after three strikes. Some of 'em (Newt for instance) would have a very short at bat.

There is only one way to keep a politician from lying: duct tape and lots of it.

In regard to the "media," journalistic standards have plummeted. The first thing to do is reenact the Fairness Doctrine. This would help require panels to equally represent both sides of the issue--though MSNBC has a hard time getting conservatives to come on their programs (cowards). Regulation also is needed to require retraction of misinformation (which FOX does not do). Then pass a law requiring an objective fact checker to be present at every interview, which should include scoring FOX for leaving out information altogether.

One problems is pre-arranged time allotment. It's annoying enough they cut short good interviews because they are running out of time (yet the next segment, which is worthless is what should have been cut). But the biggest problem in relation to timed agendas is the lack of follow up questions. Even programs like Meet the Press have become a joke.

There are still some (like Chris Matthews, Lawrence O'Donnell) who will ask a question at least three times in an attempt to get a direct answer. Marsha Blackburn will just repeat a talking point instead of answering the question. Too bad she is a congressional representative they can't just throw off the set the way Lawrence did with wacko Orly Tatz. But at least they could stop giving her air time the way the did with Rep. Joe Walsh. These far-right conservatives have been spoiled by FOX into thinking the news is really just a platform for their propaganda and reelection.

Too bad PolitiFact has been losing credibility. We really need organizations to fact check, now more than ever in this age of technology and massive misinformation. But we need the lies to be stopped at the moment, not after the fact. A key method for propaganda is to get the misinformation out there as much as possible, and even if it is debunked later, there are always a lot of people who will still believe it.

The discussion about WMD in Iraq above is a good example. Even Dubya came out and publicly stated there were no WMDs. UN Inspections over time eliminated most of the stockpiles prior to the invasion, and Saddam was lying to stay in power. We can see a license plate via satellite -- Get over it people, and stop with the conspiracy theories.

Which brings up the next point (touched upon above) and that is teaching research methodolgy as a requirement in High School. That chain Emails, for example, have become a main source of information (particularly by conservatives) indicates the immense need for education about credible sources.

RON PAUL is NOT a liar! In fact he is so dignified he has remained calm throughout a RIDICULOUS and horribly unjust assortment of lies being told about HIM! And if you are worried about his being a racist, well, you first of all have no common sense. Second, there is PLENTY of minority backing him up and a black man even went on record explaining how Dr. Paul helped he and his wife when no one else would and gave her medical attention for FREE. Which brings up another point- the man is so loyal and true to his word and values that he cared to patients with government assisted healthcare FOR FREE! C'mon people, this is the role model and leader we need. A MUST.

Ron Paul is the only honest and truthful politician the GOP has left running. What is really too bad that is why he will not be able to win the GOP nomination. I do hope one of the others is smart enough to pick him up as VP. Unfortunately, both front runners were signalling for Sen. Rubio, who is very popular. Rubio is a pick that would not hurt any GOP candidate and might actually help. He won't be able to do much in running the government (ala Dick Cheney) but he'll look good and might bring in some latino votes.

Since the theme of this thread is that Max must be an anti-semite, we should consider where the name-calling and extreme vilification came from.

1. First Max states that we should cut support to Israel (following the mention of Israel's aide in the preceding article), for what sounds like libertarian/isolationist reasons.

2. Then Max is called a bigot, an anti-semite, and compared to the indoctrinated extremists that have been raised on anti-jewish propaganda.

Isn't it odd that when an actual instance of racism happens Democrats are attacked for playing the bigot card, but the mere mention of rethinking foreign aid warrants the comparison to terrorist indoctrination.

I guess all that really matters to them is that if they scream loud and long enough they can drown out opposing viewpoints and avoid rethinking their own.

grilled cheese ... name one thing the government of Isreal has ever done for the USA except take our aid and steal our research ... just one thing ....

David 475..you really need to go to fact check when Clinton took office saddam did have WMDs he got rid of them during the Clinton administration ... the weapon inspectors reported they could find no more and Saddam quit allowing them to look he told the UN there was nothing more to find and the USA were just useing their inspections to spy on the Iraq Government

The headline should read:

• "How can we keep our ELECTED officials from lying ???"

Answer: Administer "truth serum" which should start with The Man in charge FIRST.

ldo - Puleeze, the GOP/TP primary consists of two frontrunners trying to blame the other for being a bigger crook. Romney and Gingrich are both great big lies before they even open their mouths.

What we need are real journalist who will stop the interview every time a politician lies (who ever that is), and call them on it, not just breeze past it to the next question on their note cards. And they should do it without fear that their "guests" won't come back, or what Limbaugh will say on Hate Radio the next day, and just grow some balls and have some integrity.

As Dubya said, "See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again...to kind of catapult the propaganda." Enough!

It would appear that there are just as many vine users that are ignorant of fact verses fiction in politics as there are politicians to spew the same.

It should be against the law to run for office, especially the office of the President of The United States, on the premise of lies---either known or not known, you should not be able to claim ignorance.

In other words, those running for office must get their FACTS straight BEFORE they open their mouths and as far as I am concerned they should be obligated to sign a document of promise upon taking office for the promises and statements made and fired if they proved to have lied or misconstrued the truth in any way.........and if they did so in the commission of profit for power or money or political gain they should be fired ASAP and banned from EVER running for public office again, perhaps even civil action taken-------kind of like child molesters....they would be required by law to stay away from the venue they had sought to corrupt.

But, since the laws are determined by the very persons corrupting them that will never happen......perhaps the PEOPLE should put such a law on the ballot for all the people to decide....every county in every state voting on the same law at the same time..........

think we could get it passed and protect it from being "undone" by the "law makers" ?...we'll never know unless we try.

But either way it would be a bit unnerving for the people it was aimed at...............because they would be well aware of what the people thought of them and what we were willing to do to protect our rights because eventually we would get it done.

chip away chip away chip away

The people need to start governing those who are elected to govern.

Frankly, I see no reason why we should borrow money from China to give to Israel. Sorry, they are in a position where they can borrow it themselves.

How can we keep candidates from lying? Besides a gun to the head or cutting their tongues out?

*shrug*

"The only ones lying are the GOP Tea Retards in Congress"

All foreign aid should stop when we are broke and we are putting it on a Chinese credit card. This Country is giving out Billions to Country's that careless about us, Stop with the soup lines in this nation and put America first.

How can you trust anyone that Lies to gain something?

I think this is the main problem with congress right now. They seem to have bunch that do not speak the truth

Politifact exposed it's pro-Republican bias when it was embarrassed into retracting a "half-true" rating of Barack Obama's 100% true assertions about private sector job creation during his last State of the Union. Now, they've rated the 100% true statement as "mostly true" after they were shamed the retraction. (I notice that this MSNBC article fails to note that highly significant but embarrassing episode for journalism.)

Politifact probably isn't biased because it wants Republicans to win, but because it must give Republicans and Democrats roughly equal numbers of bad ratings to avoid the wrath of the extreme right. With Republicans like Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich telling so many bald-faced lies, any truly unbiased fact checkers would give them the overwhelming majority of "half-true", "false," and "Pants on Fire" ratings. By bullying the media, the Republicans have succeeded in redefining what a "fact" is.

"Putting Americans on soup lines to give Israel 2.6 billion a year is beyond crazy"

lets put this in perspective, most of the candidates lie because they are Americans and that's what we tend to do. LIE!

this society was founded on lies, built upon lies and people can't accept anything but lies. A couple of examples:

- our Deceleration of Independence stated that "all men were equal" but Slavery continued to exist almost a century later.

- one of the claims made in the American Enlightenment period was that the settlers made better use of the land so taking lands from the Native Americans was morally justified. such great & revolutionary philosophy from the intellectual geniuses at the time.

you may say "well that's the past, we have progressed." really? who here REALLY believed the war in Iraq would be fought to remove Iraq's weapons of mass destruction? what country would be crazy enough to build nuclear bombs in a tiny, beat-up trailer?

lies are the way of life in America. everything is sugar-coated with lies. and the closer to the truths a person talks, the more unpopular they are. people cheered when Michele Bachmann wanted war with Iran and they boo'ed when Ron Paul told the crowd the main reason for the 9/11 attack. lets face it, we hate the truths.

George Calin said it best; people don't realize that politicians are people too. they are corrupt because the people are corrupt. and so they all lie because we all lie. and we only want to hear the lies. they make us feel better.

you may argue that if we don't resort to lies, how are we going to stay in power in a world where it is human nature to lie? maybe we just need to lie better? ah..now we are getting somewhere.

so instead of asking "How do we keep candidates from lying" the question we should ask is "How do we help candidates tell better lies?" now that would be too honest but at least it's not confusing to some people.

Foreign aid is about 1% of the federal budget. Much ado about little. There are much bigger fish to fry. But the voters to whom they are pandering don't know any better.

Obama included. Definately more about theater than substance. Wouldn't agree to participate if he knew that he would be obligated to tell the truth. Polygraph time.

Yes "alim" I did mean ALL debates, the reference to Gingrich was simply because it is only the GOP currently debating. My comment was intended to be practical and not knee-jerk conservative or liberal. That is a flaw in these discussion boards. The tendency is toward knee jerk reactions on partisan grounds instead of examining what is structurally wrong with the entire system.

For example, "conservatives" who castigate Obama for the deficit conveniently ignore that it was the Bush Administration that sent the economy in a tailspin. Those who champion Obama conveniently ignore the fact that he has left folks from the same Wall Street cabal that imploded the economy in charge of financial decision making respecting the recovery. Those who would apologize for Bush and his deceitful initiation of the Iraq invasion in response to 9/11 [despite the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with the attack] would ignore the fact that Obama has taken out Bin Laden [who did have something to do with 9/11] even at the risk of relations with an "ally." And so it goes on back and forth talking past each other and never discussing the real issues.

Until corporate money is distanced from electoral politics [it will never be eliminated] then the sad truth is that despite all the partisan ranting, the prospects for the average citizen are really about the same no matter which party is in power. You may criticize Obama and his policies, but it is a certainty that neither Romney nor Gingrich could do a better job respecting the average citizen.

[footnote as example - If you follow the strategy of Bain Capital (Romney's claim to fiscal expertise) you will see that it is a similar model to that Apple has used successfully to create a financial empire by sending hundreds of thousands of jobs offshore [Apple: 40k US jobs/700k jobs abroad]. Dismantle companies, get rid of labor and less productive facilities and re-establish production where capital is strong and labor is cheapest. SO....how does that bode for the average unemployed American that needs jobs created in the USA if Romney is elected? Just a practical question. Similar critical analysis could be directed to each and every candidate if we could get past the sound bites, name calling and rhetoric.]

Whenever a politician is confronted with their lies, their response is always: "I'm being misquoted!" Never mind that there is actual video footage of their statements. They will always come back with "that is not what I mean." Talk about pathological liars.

Maybe if somehow technology could come up with some electrical shock machine that is hook to a politician when they are in a debate or doing their promo rally, so everytime they say lies and false accusations, they get ZAP! Yeah, Newt and Romney would have been electricuted by now.

@ Wake Up To Reality

Yeah, Newt and Romney would have been electricuted by now.

And Obama wouldn't have made it through the first 60 seconds of the Stae of the Union Address.

Underground Sanity 2

Nice try at avoiding the kneejerk reaction and failing at a poor attempt to be unbiased.

For example, "conservatives" who castigate Obama for the deficit conveniently ignore that it was the Bush Administration that sent the economy in a tailspin.

Really? I seem to have a clear memory of the economy doing quite well until the 2006 election which did what? Oh that's right, give Democrats control of both the House and Senate. I also clearly remember Dodd and Frank blocking Conservatives calls for more oversight of Fannie and Freddie. But yeah, again, it's ALL Bush's fault. LOL

Those who champion Obama conveniently ignore the fact that he has left folks from the same Wall Street cabal that imploded the economy in charge of financial decision making respecting the recovery.

Actually agree with you here. Do you have an issue with Obama bashing these guys while partying with them on the weekends and taking their donations?

Those who would apologize for Bush and his deceitful initiation of the Iraq invasion in response to 9/11 [despite the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with the attack] would ignore the fact that Obama has taken out Bin Laden [who did have something to do with 9/11] even at the risk of relations with an "ally." And so it goes on back and forth talking past each other and never discussing the real issues.

There you are with the "unbiased" comment again. Deceitful? Let's see. Back to December 1999. On a daily basis the nightly news ran stories of Iraqi anti aircraft targeting our jets on patrol per UN sanction, stories on Iraqi's starving because of Saddam's trading of food for weapons on the black market and comments from then President Clinton on Saddam's possession of WMDs. These stories were repeated ad nauseum by every Dem in Congress, but Bush was deceitful in his invasion of Iraq.

Until corporate money is distanced from electoral politics [it will never be eliminated] then the sad truth is that despite all the partisan ranting, the prospects for the average citizen are really about the same no matter which party is in power. You may criticize Obama and his policies, but it is a certainty that neither Romney nor Gingrich could do a better job respecting the average citizen.

Would corporate money include money from Unions and Trial Lawyers as they outspent ALL corporations in donations in the past 4 election cycles? It is not a certainty, it is your small minded opinion that they can't do a better job. Considering the poor job BO has done so far, I'd venture to say that anyone could do a better job, even you.

[footnote as example - If you follow the strategy of Bain Capital (Romney's claim to fiscal expertise) you will see that it is a similar model to that Apple has used successfully to create a financial empire by sending hundreds of thousands of jobs offshore [Apple: 40k US jobs/700k jobs abroad]. Dismantle companies, get rid of labor and less productive facilities and re-establish production where capital is strong and labor is cheapest. SO....how does that bode for the average unemployed American that needs jobs created in the USA if Romney is elected? Just a practical question. Similar critical analysis could be directed to each and every candidate if we could get past the sound bites, name calling and rhetoric.]

While your analysis is partially correct, you fail to address the problems U.S. companies face with the U.S. tax code and how overseas profits are handled. FACT. The U.S. has the second highest corporate tax in the entire world. There is no disputing this. So why would any company WANT to have it's world headquarters here. Next, if Apple or any other company wants to bring profits earned AND TAXED in another country back to the U.S., they pay the same rate as if it were earned in the U.S. even though it's a a much lower earning rate. Why bring money back to the U.S. when they can invest the money overseas. If unemployed workers understood that the U.S. government and unions were driving jobs overseas with their policies and actions, would they continue to believe the liberal lie that the left is for the working man?

If their lips are moving - they're lying. Easy!

PTown27 - another right winger making things up as he goes. The far right lies about everything! You think that by your re-writing the facts people will just automatically believe you! Pathetic

Underground Sanity 2 - For example, "conservatives" who castigate Obama for the deficit conveniently ignore that it was the Bush Administration that sent the economy in a tailspin.

Not a good example. It was the removal of the US Laws in 1999 and 2000, that made Illegal the Causes of the 1907 Depression, the 1929-1939 Great Depression, and resulted in the Current $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Financial Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Credit Crisis", etc.. As to why the US is Currently in a Depression and not a Recession, as the identical Causes with the Same Results of Previous Depressions.

And to repeat the same mistakes that Caused the "Rich" US and Foreign Business Investors to Flee the US, President Obama's "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share". Historically, this happened many times before, as the "Rich" Founding Fathers (did not have to do daily subsistence living) did not want to pay the British "Stamp Act" Taxes to fund the other Great Britain Colonies, fund the expansion of the Colonies by using the British Military against the "Indians" and possibly the French, did not want to pay for the British Military's Protection, etc.. Hitler did the same thing, as "Rich Jews Own Everything", "Jews must pay their share", "Germans must take back Germany from the Jews", etc., the Rich Jews convert their money into things that they can carry while fleeing Germany, like diamonds, etc.. The British Labor Union Political Party, "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share" with the "Rich" British Fleeing and even abandoning the British Icon Businesses, resulting in the British Government attempting to run the abandoned Businesses and Failing, then selling the British Icon Businesses to other Nations, resulting in more British Citizens on the Dole with the "Middle Class" and "Poor" paying for all British Social Programs. example British Icon Business, Jaguar, sold to Tata Motors of India. Candidate (Senator) Obama states his "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share", causing the Richest Person in the World to flee the US, as the Rich already knew that Candidate Obama would become US President thru the Elitists of the Electoral College. The Richest Person in the World could lose $10 Billion then or wait until Candidate Obama became US President and then lose $100 Billion. Resulting in the First Casualty of the loss of the Richest Person in the World's Business Investments at the US being CompUSA (Bankruptcy Closure), then Sears Holdings (Bankruptcy Reorganization), K Mart (Bankruptcy Reorganization), Circuit City (Bankruptcy Closure), Aloha Airlines (Bankruptcy Closure), etc. (Very long list of the Richest Person in the World's Business Investments at the US). As retail is the Canary in the Coal Mine, the Frogs of the Environment that reflect what is happening to the US Economy First (Indicators). As one of his Managers (third career after US Military Retirement) he explained why he was abandoning us. Many of the Rich that were emulating the Richest Person In the World's Successes also fled the US. This only increased the effects of the "Credit Crisis".

President Bush is not completely without blame as he too did not reinstate those US Laws that made Illegal the Causes of the previous Depressions. If he would have then, then the US would not have been going into a Depression (would have gone into a mild Recession). As from 1907 till 1933 after years of attempts at Regulation that failed the US Congress finally made the Causes Illegal. Even after the US Laws were enacted in 1933 it took until 1939, 6 years, for the US Laws to actually have an effect. These US Laws worked to keep the US out of a Great Depression from 1933 to 2000. This is just like when the US Laws were removed in 1999 and 2000 it took 7- 8 years for the effects to start. Another Lie of President Obama, 2012 State of the Union Address, "we have put in measures to prevent this from happening again", nope same failed attempts of Regulation as before from 1907 to 1933, as US and Foreign Financial Institutions can still 100% Legally drop a Financial Weapon of Mass Destruction on any Nation to destroy their Governments and Economies, like what Goldman Sachs did to the Greeks. Of course Nations like the Chinese and Russian Federation kept their version of the 1933 US Laws and are therefore immune from Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction and the US and US Allies are not ever since they eliminated their Laws that made Illegal the Causes of previous Depressions. This is why the US Military Defense Industrial Complex as created by President FDR to get the US out of the 1929-1939 Great Depression is the only thing left keeping the US out of another Great Depression (people literally starving to death) by employing almost a hundred million expensive overpaid US Citizens getting a "Fair and Living Wage" as to why the expensive $300 hammers and USAF Toilet Seats, instead of the US Military violating US Law (US Code) "US Military Must Buy Only US Products, Goods, and Services" instead of being able to go to Walmart and buy less expensive Chinese Products. The US Military Defense Industrial Complex is actually the Majority of the US Military Defense Budget (as required by the US Congressional Defense Appropriations Committee, as US Civilian Jobs in their States, this is the REAL Reason why President Obama 2012 backpeddled on his April 2009 US Military Defense Budget Cut of one USN Aircraft Carrier Battle Group, the loss of hundreds of thousands of US Civilian Jobs as US Labor Union: Dock workers, Dry Dock Workers, Longshoremen, Machinists, Electricians, Aircraft and Ship Maintenance, Construction Workers, Pipefitters, Crane Operators, Transportation, etc. that would have Striked on the steps of the White House as within driving distance from Virginia. I should know since I emailed all my USN friends that then emailed their workers, the US Labor Unions Workers that would have been laid off; this was a real pain in the arse for me as to make the emails not look like spam with multiple addresses, so I had to copy and paste each email address, personalize email content and update the email content since April 2009).

Most people believe what they want to believe ... Politicians will go on telling their lies because that is what the ignorant voter wants.. Death Panels and not Born in America are two good examples .. There are a lot of stupid voters ..thats a fact

First we must find a way to keep an incumbent president from telling lies and mistruths every time he gives a SOTU address! Here's just a few gems from the most recent fantasy:

“For the first time in nine years, there are no Americans fighting in Iraq. For the first time in two decades, Osama bin Laden is not a threat to this country. Most of al Qaeda’s top lieutenants have been defeated. The Taliban’s momentum has been broken, and some troops in Afghanistan have begun to come home.”

The killing of bin Laden, which Obama used to open and close his speech, is an achievement that few partisans would quibble with. But the story about Iraq and Afghanistan is much more muddled.

Yes, U.S. troops have left Iraq, in part because the Obama administration was unwilling or unable — take your pick — to extend a security agreement with Iraq. Since the U.S. departure, Iraq has descended into violence as the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has targeted Sunni opposition figures. The country at times appears to teeter on the edge of a new outbreak of sectarian violence.

Meanwhile, the president’s claim that the Taliban’s “momentum has been broken” is a highly debatable claim. U.S. intelligence agencies, for instance, recently concluded in a secret assessment that the war in Afghanistan “is mired in stalemate” and that security gains from an increase in American troops “have been undercut by pervasive corruption, incompetent governance and Taliban fighters operating from neighboring Pakistan,” according to the Los Angeles Times. Other U.S. officials have dissented from the report’s conclusions, but the dispute is an indication of how fragile any momentum may be.

“In the six months before I took office, we lost nearly four million jobs. And we lost another four million before our policies were in full effect. Those are the facts. But so are these. In the last 22 months, businesses have created more than three million jobs. Last year, they created the most jobs since 2005. American manufacturers are hiring again, creating jobs for the first time since the late 1990s. Together, we’ve agreed to cut the deficit by more than $2 trillion. And we’ve put in place new rules to hold Wall Street accountable, so a crisis like that never happens again.”

Here, Obama tries to inoculate himself from the inevitable charge by the eventual GOP presidential nominee that he has the worst job-creation record of any president since World War II. (Let us stipulate that all of these job-creation claims are fairly bogus, given how every president is at the mercy of the business cycle, but it appears to be central to our politics.)

As Obama noted, some 4 million jobs were lost at the start of his administration, putting him in a deep hole if he wants to show positive job growth in his presidency. But the nearly $1 trillion stimulus was passed into law in February, and so the carefully phrased claim of “we lost another four million before our policies were in full effect” is a stretch.

That’s because it took a full nine months to run up 4 million in job losses, some eight months after the stimulus was passed into law—and some four months after the official end of the recession, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. (The 4 million in losses before Obama took office occurred in the previous nine months, not six months as the president stated.)

Trying to change the focus from his overall job-creation record, the president focuses on private-sector jobs created since the recession ended. Those numbers are largely right, but they are relatively anemic given the depths of the recession. (Note that he describes a loss of 8 million jobs and then mentions a gain of only three million.)

Obama does not mention that Republicans forced him to accept $2 trillion in budget cuts during the debt-ceiling impasse. And he says “we’ve put in place” new rules on Wall Street, glossing over the fact that it had little Republican support and the GOP candidates have all vowed to repeal the Dodd-Frank law.

“On the day I took office, our auto industry was on the verge of collapse. Some even said we should let it die. With a million jobs at stake, I refused to let that happen. In exchange for help, we demanded responsibility. We got workers and automakers to settle their differences. We got the industry to retool and restructure. Today, General Motors is back on top as the world’s number one automaker. Chrysler has grown faster in the U.S. than any major car company. Ford is investing billions in U.S. plants and factories. And together, the entire industry added nearly 160,000 jobs.”

Here the president appears to celebrate a bailout, which actually was started under his predecessor George W. Bush. The claim that “some” wanted the auto industry to die is a bit of a straw man, though Obama appears to be really aiming at Mitt Romney’s call at the time for the auto industry to go through a pre-packaged bankruptcy, which Democratic attack ads have turned into heartless-sounding proposal. (Ford, incidentally, did not accept a bailout.)

Some 200,000 auto workers were laid off during the recession, bringing the industry to a low of 550,000 workers; forecasts suggest it will climb back to the pre-recession level by 2015.

“Right now, American oil production is the highest that it’s been in eight years. That’s right — eight years. Not only that — last year, we relied less on foreign oil than in any of the past sixteen years.”

The first statement is a great statistic but not especially noteworthy because there has not been much change in the annual barrels produced in the United States since 2003; it essentially has been steady though it is slightly higher now than in previous years,according to the Energy Information Administration. Production is projected to increase in coming years.

The second claim made it into Obama’s first campaign ad, and as we have noted, it is lacking context. The Energy Department cited a host of reasons why foreign oil imports have declined, noting the main reason was “a significant contraction in consumption” because of the poor economy and changes in efficiency that began “two years before the 2008 crisis” — ie, before Obama took office.

---------------------------

“Take the money we’re no longer spending at war, use half of it to pay down our debt, and use the rest to do some nation-building right here at home.”

This is fanciful budget math. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were funded with borrowed money, so what Obama is really asking for is an increase in domestic spending relative to the Pentagon. The United States is still running huge deficits, so none of this imagined savings w

.... and a few more treats from the annoited one's SOTU speech:

"That's why our health care law relies on a reformed private market, not a government program."

Obama spent surprisingly little time in the speech defending his signature health care law, but he left out part of the story with this statement. About half of the 34 million people who will receive coverage under the new law will be placed on Medicaid, a federal-state government program for low-income Americans, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates. The rest of the newly insured would get coverage through private markets

"Through the power of our diplomacy, a world that was once divided about how to deal with Iran's nuclear program now stands as one."

This is a more hopeful statement than the actual reality. The Obama administration has won U.N. approval for new sanctions, and just this week the European Union joined in an embargo of Iranian oil imports. But there are other key nations, in particular China, that have resisted a broad crackdown on trade with Tehran. There is also little evidence that the sanctions have had much effect in slowing Iranian nuclear ambitions.

"Our iron-clad commitment to Israel's security has meant the closest military cooperation between our two countries in history."

Obama has had tense relations with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, especially over peace talks with the Palestinians, but military cooperation has been one bright spot in the relationship. Still, the fact that the president could not even mention peace with the Palestinians in this speech suggests how much his dream of achieving a peace deal has faded.

Can we afford another 4 years of this? I don't think so.....!

Nice post(s) Mark.... and I agree...we have to stop the damage!

More importantly though... where's the snow?

Great idea, and sadly won't be used.

Its just a gift they were born with. First time you lie a fine, Second time your tongue is removed using their government paid health care, third time life in a real prison no entitlements, and a proper introduction to Big Mike.

I'm ALL for a little electric current zapping the lying politician! No need to kill them or anything, just start out with mild and then intensify it for each subsequent lie. The one that wets their pants first loses!

United...Perhaps (and please excuse my spelling) a plethismograph might be more appropriate. It is a device that is attached to the genitals of sex offenders and provides a shock when they "respond" of inappropriate stimuli. It doesn't work....but it would be worth watching them get a few jolts during a debate. DOH!!!

United: "no need to kill them or anything" You're being too nice. Don't think for a minute that any politician would not hesitate for a moment to take your life for whatever cause they've invented. Think in terms of the 4700 soldiers that Cheney and Bush slaughtered in Iraq.

me4texas, No one forced any of us to sign a contract with the armed forces, the 4700 you speak of volunteered to serve their country and knew that war and death were a real possibility, and yes some of those same 4700 were friends/soldiers of mine. I have no issue with anyone that does not want to serve as the life is not for everyone, however I do take exception to people like you who obviously don't have a clue about the military, sacrifice or war using my fallen comrades as a statistic to try and push your misguided political agenda.

OIF VET- Look, buddy, it's real simple. Those 4700 Americans who died in the "land o' sand" surely signed up willingly in the armed forces in order to protect OUR country and OUR freedoms. They did NOT sign up to fight illegal wars of aggression fomented by the elite warhawks in order to cover Israel's ass and make a ton of money for the military-industrial complex.

"Using your fallen comrades as a statistic"...well, yeah, it's a hell of a statistic, ain't it, you ol' vet. It's a statistic that should piss you off more than anybody, since it is your "fallen comrades" who paid the price for wars that didn't produce any tangible benefits to our nation (other than monetarily for a few).

You're making a knee-jerk emotional response to something that IS political, and was rendered from political means, thanks to Bush's administration. And yeah, I BLAME BUSH FOR THOSE 4700 DEATHS!!!! Sorry, but Obama didn't make that decision, and Congress would not have made the decision if Bush/Cheney hadn't campaigned for it.

Oh, and BTW, you're not the only one who lost friends and family in Bush's wars. So drop the f--king "I'm a vet, and you can't say anything bad about the war" baloney. Sure, you lost comrades, but a hell of a lot of wives, parents, and kids lost their loved ones too. And all for what?? WHAT???

Now you listen to me, you prick. IF, and it's a pretty big IF, our country is EVER attacked by a foreign enemy, I will proudly defend my home; with my life if needed. But there is NO f--king way I will let my sons join the military when they are older so long as our government believes their lives are easily forfeited. If YOU believe in the "causes" our young men and women have so vainly given their lives to, then you have my express permission to go warmongering with whomever you like. Otherwise, stop apologizing for our government's f--ked up policy planning.

I take an exception to people like you who obviously don't have a clue about politics or policies, and use fallen comrades as a emotional argument to try and push your misguided military agenda.

Indy Patriot- From the sound of your comment I would have to assume that you have never had the priviledge to serve our Country in the Armed Forces. I too am a 20 year Navy Vet and I agree with you on some of your postes and disagrre with others. I normally leave this childish bickering on the net to those who want to act childish, but I have to comment on this post in particular. You say that you would proudly defend your country with your life it it were to come under attack. I would first like to ask you if you consider Japan's actions at Pearl Harbor, Dec. 7 1941, an attack on our country?Yes this is an example of one country attacking another! Now my second question, what do you consider the events in New York, Washington D.C., and rural Pennsylvania on Sept. 11, 2001 to be, were these not attacks on our country? Did you rush to the Armed Forces recruiting office and volunteer? I doubt that ever crossed your mind! And to the statement that you will never let your sons join the military, I laugh! For your information the United States Armed Forces are a 100% voluntary force, we chose to serve! Some of us chose to make it a career because we loved what we did. And if your sons make that choice for themselves there is not a damn thing you can do about it except be a proud father and support their decision. The last time I checked the US is a free country and adult mena and women can make that choice for themselves and don't need an overbearing father to make the choice for them!

Republicans?

a particularly violent segment of the black community

Just because one part is bad, does not make the whole community bad. I'm all up for placing a well deserved label, but you cannot paint with a broad brush when you talk about these things.

Chris - what part of "a particularly violent segment" was difficult for you to understand? I am not painting an entire community with a broad brush. But it is unarguable that many inner cities in this country are a hot mess, and that the bulk of the population in those cities are black and hispanic. We are tolerating unbelievable levels of indiscriminate violence from these a$$holes and I'm sick of it. As I'm typing this the topic of discussion on the news on 101.5FM in NJ is how the gang violence in NJ is spreading and how they have absolutely no respect for authority, families or life in general - and that most gangs now are forcing new initiates to commit a random act of murder to prove that they are willing to take a life. So here's a quarter - call a liberal who wants to hear your whining.

And btw, Chris, our cities in NJ have been under democratic control for decades now. They ALWAYS vote for democrats. And during those decades those democrats have managed to push through hundreds and hundreds of programs that redistribute income from the suburbs to the urban areas - (another word for STEALING from those who earned it and giving it away to those who didn't)) and yet things never seem to get better in those cities. In fact they keep getting WORSE, in spite of the fact that BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars have been funneled into those h*ll holes.

Yeah, the democrats have been doing a GREAT job. haven't they? The truth is that democrats aren't at all interested in really helping these people. What they ARE interested in is keeping these people dependant on taxpayer funded handouts - and doing everything they can to expand this group so that they have a permanent voter base that will keep them in power forever.

What??? Your saviour republican governor, remember him, the HEAD EXECUTIVE of the state of NJ, hasn't made everything all sunshine and roses for you? What's it like to live in a bubble of manufactured fear all the time?

@grilledcheesesandwich

I'm familiar with the cities you speak of, and others in PA (where I'm from). Most of the violence is DRUG related and the USERS are from the suburbs. It is indeed a mess, but has little to do with politics.

Wasn't NJ Wienerland? Sorry, he was busy and didn't have time to deal with the gang issues. All that loading and downloading takes a toll on a guy.

United We Stand - don't give me that nonsense that it has nothing to do with politics. Yes, drugs are a big problem. But they have a CHOICE not to join gangs and become cold-blooded killers at 16 years of age. The problem is the mothers of almost every single one of those gang members is a single parent, who dropped out of school, got pregnant at 15 or younger, lives off of public assistance, has no interest or inclination in being a real parent, and has no idea what that even MEANS because HER mother was the exact same way - and they keep popping out kids with multiple "fathers" they refuse to identify and they get more $$ for each kid they pop out. We need to stop giving women who are already living off the taxpayers MORE money for each additional kid they have. It is not working and the only effect it's having is expotentialy increasing the segment of the population that is DEPENDANT ON THE TAXPAYERS, and KEEP THE DEMOCRATS IN POWER BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS KEEP GIVING THEM MORE TAXPAYER MONEY. They get welfare, medicaid, free preschool, free daycare, section 8 housing, (which also pays for their utilities), free cell phones. free cable, free cars, food stamps, and the list goes on and on and on.

Do you STILL want to tell me how this has nothing to do with politics?

Wake up.

And Sally? Christie can only do so much. Our congress is controlled by democrats - and in SPITE of those dipsh*ts, he's still managed to get things done. People like you think they are being oh so smart when they say cr*p like that. Sheesh.

cheese...Dementia is a progressive disease. Wonder what he will be saying in four years...assuming he hasn't developed aphasia.

Dems have been trying to hide the history of the party's racist past with a vengence and part of that game is to not only deny it but place the blame elsewhere , so they point at Reps. When the Reps forced Dems to get out of the slavery business, then the racial discrimination business, the Dems simply created the 'welfare business' to buy them with food and ghetto apartments and checks for just enough that keep them on the rolls and keep them voting for the master. Leftist college professors on all too many campuses for all too many years keep spreading the lie that Dems aren't responsible, but they most certainly are. And the past is ever present. http://lonelyconservative.com/2011/11/history-of-the-democrat-party-video/

It seems that Grilledcheeseheadsandwich who likes to call people who disagree with him, bigots has a little bigotry problem of his own.

What about the "definition of it" lie? These politicians are master word smiths and when all else fails, they just deny they said it and blame the other side for denigrating them.

Yes, let us not forget the despicable Clinton response - it depends on what your definition of is, is. This was his response while under oath and witnessed by America! Having said that, I'd have preferred having Hillary in the oval office than the fool who is currently inhabiting it! Bye, bye BO - you stink!

Disgusted to the max---Iagree, Hillary for prez in 2016.

lol I would guess, the same way we would stop newt, or mittens, or cain or trump, or norquist, or bohner, or anyone from lying.

SO much stupid in your statement it's hard to know where to start, so I'll just say: STFU, nimrod.

There is a big difference between lying and not being able to keep the "promises" made during a campaign. Only the simple minded can't see that.

Being unable to deliver on promises because of an obstructionist opposition is far from lying. Being unable to understand that simple fact makes it so easy for the obstructionist opposition to sell their BS to their gullible base, and THAT'S the truth!

vw...Well said!!! I don't think the man counted on a Congress that was a corrupt as Al Capone. My guess is that he is as disillusioned as many Americans. I am not a great supporter of his policies, but it does make me want to file my teeth when Congress goes on vacation as agencies are about to shut down....Oh, sorry, we didn't get to that....Maybe, in a few weeks.

Does voting "present" count? BO was pathetic and had no clue then and he's still pathetic and has no clue now.

It is really rough to be as intelligent as the Dictator Bush. Ha ha ha ha.

Because there are very few real "journalists" these days, only talking pretty heads that read their scripts. They don't question or investigate and this is one of the reasons the American public is so uninformed. it is pathetic.

The truth in that statement is a sad reflection of the truth, Brian. On target, but sad none the less.

Your doing exactly the same thing you rail against. Yes we are a STILL a Republic because our form of government has not changed even if the players have.

GCCAl...Sorry to have to disagree, but our govt. changed when the SCOTUS determined that corporations were people. Our politicians are now bought and paid for off the rack with hoards of favors to return when elected. Yes, it has changed our govt. and not for the better.

Colorblind - I don't believe that corporations should have been given "person" status". But it is dishonest to make reference to this without referring to the REASON why the Supreme Court made this decision. Democrats were perfectly fine with extremely powerful UNIONS being able to donate as much as they wanted to democratic candidates. But democrats wanted to tie the hands of corporations and prevent them from doing the same thing. The Supreme Court basically told them to go f*ck themselves, and they were right to do so. It was about bloody time.

Geez, cheese! Dishonest? I am dishonest? Maybe, the SCOTUS needs to tell the corps to go eff themselves as well. Apparently, you are ok with a bought and paid for govt... CEO's that make 450 million a year and bankrupt companies that pay huge amounts to retain the CEOs that bankrupted them. You really need to quit with the name calling. Your arguments are sound, but your attitude negates them. Try being civil and you might be actually heard and taken seriously.

Colorblind - take it easy. I didn't call YOU anything. I called your STATEMENT dishonest. And it was. You simply can't complain about corporations being given person status but be OK with out of control UNION political contributions. They amount to the exact same thing and NEITHER of them is OK. Unions buying politicans in NJ has contributed to some of the highest property taxes in the country. Corporations most definitely have not.

And you really aren't an independent. You most definitely lean left, if you were HONEST with yourself.

Cheese...I am a "registered" independent. I lean where the issues, not the party, takes me. If you were honest with yourself, you would realize that you are calling me a liar and I am not all that happy about it. End of conversation. You have nothing useful to add but calling everyone's opinion bs, but offering no solutions. Put me in whatever box you want....and don't forget the label...that is so important to the discussion, after all.

But...but...but... isn't the print media as liberally biased as the broadcast media? Any true conservative will tell you that.

phil...Ferreting out the truth isn't as easy as "reading." We are provided information from every source of the media, including reading material and it is often slanted and biased. It is hard to know how to vote--especially, when you are doing all you can to keep food on the table and your mortgage paid up.

Just wondering who votes for people like weiner, vitter,ensign.clinton ,cunningham,craig ,nixon and newt.Wasn t me.

Please. More laws ie: big brother NOT needed or wanted. If the candidates are simply called out based upon their prior voting records while speaking in front of the nation, things will work themselves out.

I suspect that I will not get a response from Bill Dedman to my question below, as I think he has moved on to other things. The article is here to promote the website, but not to really search for ways to make the process better, imo.

Ron Paul 2012!

Well informed moderators who have the balls to call them out on lies and deflections would do the trick.

Unlike John King, who had the chance to wipe the floor with Newt and fumbled; Newt wiped the floor with him instead.

The thing with using their prior voting records is that they can and do change their minds on issues based on new information. I do it too!

The problem we have is that there isn't ONE believable source of information--according to many.

United WE Stand,

That is well and good. We will now if/why they changed their vote, and if it aligns with what is in the best interest of the nation. This would also shed light if their voting record is consistant, or if they sway just to get votes. I think it is ALL valuable to know.

Ron Paul 2012!

And why did you single out the mainstream media, as you call it? Is that being truthful, too? Or is it because you actually believe that Fox is "fair and balanced"?

Fox is pretty much the same as the rest. Most anchors lean conservative and most anchors on otheres lean liberal. But Fox is no more biased than others. My home town newspapers is far most biased liberal than Fox is biased conservative.

To be fashionable on this site, one needs to claim Fox is the only biased media, but I don't agree. I think most on this site just repeat what they see from other postings

Because of Faux news there was a ruling passed by the Supreme Court that they were not required to tell the truth, and they don't ever tell the truth.

jsw---off with the voters heads---after all---they are the ones pulling the levers in the voting booth---start with the source

Folks forget it---the american voter is the least informed in the world---voters are tribes and believe any slogan that appeals to their biases,whther it s religiously based or racially based. Witness all the nonsense,,socialist, marxist muslim,taking away my freedom,anti christ,etc etc etc. all nonsense to keep the tribes in line---it s sad to see and hear,

I agree with Syn holliday we should come up with a better format than the stupid current one. But Charles is correct that most voters have little understanding of politics or economics and probably would not understand any presentation that contains substance.

I am not criticizing voters as accurate unbiased info is almost impossible to get. We won't get it from politicians or the media.

The media selects the president. To stop it, all campaign contributions should pooled and shared equally by all candidates. Then candidates should make equal length campaign films, attend debates to be shown on TV on equals terms, times. Otherwise what we have is the dicatatorship of the rich. This is why America wants to bring democracy to a country when the dictator goes out of line, but keeps a King when he does the bidding of the rich.