E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSDefense Secretary Leon Panetta now believes there's a strong possibility that Israel will attack Iran in an attempt to thwart Tehran's nuclear ambitions, according to U.S. officials. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Concerns that Israel will attack Iran in an attempt to prevent Tehran from developing nuclear weapons escalated Thursday when the Washington Post reported that Defense Secretary Leon Panetta believes there is a “strong likelihood” that Tel Aviv will launch such an offensive in April, May or June.
Panetta, who is attending a NATO meeting in Brussels, did not dispute the report by Post Op/Ed columnist David Ignatius.
"No, I'm just not commenting," he said when asked about the report, adding, "What I think and what I view, I consider that to be an area that belongs to me and nobody else."
Panetta’s reported view has been echoed in recent interviews by NBC News with current and former U.S. and Israeli officials who have access to their countries’ intelligence. Those officials, all of whom spoke to NBC News on background, estimated the odds of an Israeli attack on Iran as better than 50-50.
Most of the officials said it is highly unlikely that the war-weary U.S. would mount a military attack on Iran, instead relying on financial sanctions and diplomatic pressure to squeeze Tehran.
Jacquelyn Martin / Pool via Getty Images
U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta speaks with reporters Thursday in Brussels, Belgium, after the conclusion of a day of meetings with fellow NATO defense officials.
But Israel, which has an openly hostile relationship with Iran and much more at stake if its neighbor becomes a nuclear power, is more of a wild card, say the officials, who come from a variety of intelligence and national security backgrounds. But the officials warn that, if intelligence indicated that Iran was on the verge of building a nuclear weapon, the government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would almost certainly consider a military strike. And if it decided to launch one, the U.S. would likely receive very little advance notice, they say.
Here, in question-and-answer format, is a summary of how the officials see such an attack unfolding:
Q: What are the chances Israel attacks Iran?
A: Officials agree the chances for an Israeli attack on Iran are at least 50-50, maybe higher. More than one former official has suggested the possibility is as high as 70 percent, but events can move that higher or lower. One said he is “worried sick” about it.
Q: When might Israel attack?
A: Most of those questioned said the prospects of an Israeli attack will increase as the calendar moves into spring and summer.
Q: What assets would Israel use?
A: Many of those interviewed claim Israel would launch a multi-pronged attack, using its fighter bombers as well as its Jericho missile force.
Israel has both medium and intermediate range Jerichos. The medium-range Jericho I would not have the range to reach many Iranian targets but the intermediate-range Jericho II’s, capable of hitting targets 1,500 miles away, would have no problem. The Jerichos would be equipped with high explosives, not nuclear warheads. Asked if the Jericho would have the accuracy and the explosive power to take out a hardened bunker of the sort believed to be protecting Iran’s most-sensitive underground nuclear facilities, one official replied, “You would be surprised at their accuracy” and that the high explosives involved is a special mix of chemical explosives that could conceivably penetrate the Iranian fortifications.
Missile attacks would be coordinated with fighter-bomber attacks (presumably the Israelis’ extended-range F-15I Strike Eaglet) as well as drone strikes. The fighter bombers would use what one official described as “high-low, low-high” flight paths -- high first to increase fuel efficiency, then low for most of the trip to evade radar, then climbing high again as the weapons are released in what is known as a “flip toss” on the target. The Israelis would be prepared to lose aircraft if necessary, the officials said.
The Israelis are not planning to use submarine-launched cruise missile force -- “not enough of them,” one official said of the subs. (The Israelis have long had nuclear tipped sub-launched cruise missiles as part of their deterrent force.)
Q: How would other Middle Eastern states react?
A: U.S. officials believe that Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates would support the attacks because of the threat Iran poses to them.
The Saudis and Emiratis, both of which have Sunni controlled governments, have repeatedly lobbied the U.S. to bomb the Iranian nuclear facilities, preferring a U.S. attack to an Israeli one. But because both are desperate to have someone take out the Iranian program, they also have shared information with the Israelis. If Israel did decide to attack, it’s likely Israeli jets would overfly Saudi territory and would even be allowed to perform aerial refueling. An attack would take at least two midair refuelings.
As for Turkey, it may not participate at the same level as the Sunni Arab Gulf states, but it is watching Iran closely. The U.S. fears Turkey would consider a nuclear weapons program if Iran obtained them and could develop nuclear weapons much more quickly than either Saudi Arabia or the UAE.
Q: Would there be a ground component?
A: Not in a traditional way. Some officials have suggested that Israeli commandos, either from the Israel Defense Forces or Mossad (or both), would be inserted on the ground near targets to illuminate them, gather post-strike forensics and perhaps grab some materials for later analysis.
Q: What would Israel’s goal be?
A: Israel would not try to take out every Iranian nuclear facility but instead would target certain facilities it considers critical, hoping to set the program back. U.S. officials believe an attack could put the program back two to four years, Israelis estimate more like three to five. One official said the Israelis are prepared to “do the same in two to four years” if the Iranian program recovers.
Q: How successful might the attack be?
A: Iran has fortified its critical underground nuclear facilities with as much as 30 meters (nearly 100 feet) of reinforced concrete, including the centrifuge cascades at Natanz and Fordow outside Qom. Israel however has dramatically improved its bunker-busting capability over the past three years.
Israel is unlikely to bomb “soft targets” within the Iranian nuclear program, including labs inside universities or near civilian centers, say U.S. officials. That’s because they are hoping that a clean strike would show that Israel only wants to take out nuclear facilities dear to the mullahs and Revolutionary Guards, both of whom who they believe to be wildly unpopular with the Iranian people.
Q: How might Iran respond?
A: As the New York Times reported Friday, the Israeli military intelligence assessment is that Iran’s military response to such an attack would be muted, in part because of its limited capability and in part because of it understands a massive attack would be met with massive response. Not everyone agrees with that assessment, noting that Iran has had years to plan out their response. The biggest fear is that Iran would unleash Hezbollah, which has between 42,000 and 48,000 missiles and rockets in southern Lebanon aimed at Israel. Even before any attack, officials in both Thailand and Azerbaijan say they have recently thwarted Hezbollah plots against Israeli facilities.
Israel understands that Hezbollah may respond on behalf of Iran following an attack and is prepared to go after Hezbollah “and not stop at the Litani River (the northern limit of most previous Israeli attacks) this time nor limit its force to a brigade or two” as one U.S. official put it. Another added that Israeli officials understand that “Israeli blood, Jewish blood will certainly be spilled” in attacks around the world in the event of an attack. And the response might not be immediate. One official noted that the Saudi Hezbollah attacks on Khobar Towers in 1996 took place months after the U.S. passed tighter sanctions against Iran.
But another notes that the level of Hezbollah support for Iran in such a scenario is an enormously important – and difficult -- question for both Israel and the U.S. Hezbollah’s position is precarious, as Syria -- its main conduit for Iranian supplies – is wracked by violence and its main focus has shifted to governance in Lebanon. Most officials think Hezbollah won’t be able to sit this one out, but few expect a massive response against Israel, which would engender a counterattack by Israeli forces.
There are other possibilities. One Iranian says to watch Dubai where 400,000 Iranian expatriates work. Iranians could “shut it down,” the official said. All the officials note that Iran has had a long time to plan its response.
One huge question is what the Iranians would do if they believed that the Saudis or Emiratis were helping Israel. In that case, say U.S. officials, expect Iran to respond against the southern Gulf States and, if the attack is serious enough, expect the United States to move to protect the Saudi Kingdom in particular, expanding the theater of combat.
Q: What is the worst-case scenario for the U.S.?
A: The worst case in case the Israelis attacked Iran would be if the Iranians judged the U.S. had been implicated or involved in the attack. Senior Iranian officials have in the past told NBC News that they would make no distinction between an Israeli attack and a U.S. attack. They see the two working hand-in-hand.
If that happened, presumably the scope of Iran's retaliation would encompass the U.S. At the far end of the spectrum, they might go an “embassy-a-day program, start blowing up U.S. missions in various cities,” said one former U.S. official. But another intelligence official said such a response would be highly unlikely, noting that even a single embassy attack would mean massive U.S. retaliation. The Iranians also could attack ships of the U.S. Fifth Fleet in the Gulf or U.S. allies on the Arab side of the Gulf, but either of these responses would likely prompt a U.S. military response aimed at toppling the regime in Tehran, the official said.
Q: What about oil?
A: The price would spike immediately, going from around $100 a barrel now to “between $200 and pick-a-number,” said one oil trader. How quickly it would revert to lower levels would depend on how quickly the situation stabilized and how and where Iran would respond. An attack on Saudi Arabia, for instance, would place the price target at close to that “pick-a-number” scenario, the trader said.
Even a $25 a barrel increase would have serious consequences for the recoveries in U.S., European and East Asian economies, particularly Japan. “It would be a game changer,” for the U.S. economy and the political season, said a U.S. official.
Q: Why would Israel launch such an attack?
A: Putting aside Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s inflammatory comments that Israel should be “wiped off the face of the Earth” (which some Iranians claim privately was a mistranslation), some Israeli officials believe the continuous threat of an Iranian nuclear weapon would lead as many as 200,000 of their best and brightest citizens to leave for the United States and other Western nations. That is the “existential threat” Israeli officials worry about, not that Iran could destroy Israel.
An Iranian nuclear weapon would give Israel a lot less latitude to respond to Iranian threats, the Israelis believe.
Q: Beyond military considerations, what else might the Israelis take into account when timing of an attack?
A: It may seem cynical, but some in the Middle East think an attack could be timed to the U.S. presidential election. Some in Middle East believe that Israel might carry out an attack at the peak of the U.S. campaign in the belief that candidates and other elected officials in both parties would compete to show their support for Israel.
Robert Windrem is a senior investigative correspondent for NBC News; NBC News Pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszewski and Pentagon producer Courtney Kube also contributed to this report.
Leave a Comment:
JESUS CHRIST.....
Is nothing "SECRET" anymore?
Hey Iran. Jew are going to get your asses kicked this time! See ya!
It is good to read this today, before the White House denies this information.
Mr. Balls? Can you leave Jesus Christ out of this?
Shocked
The damn reporters can never keep secrets anymore....they just gave the enemy all information, now the enemy is busy "hiding" things and "planting" scud missiles all over the desert....why piss off the camels? These animals are tired of bombs in the desert...
Whatever happened to element of surprise? If Israel looses this ability to deny these terrorists nuclear weapons; mossad should think twice before talking to these parrots (reporters)...
Israel is a soverign nation and has the right to strike at Iran if it feels threatened. My only stipulation is that the US not get involved since Iran does not represent a threat to our national security.
Dunkin.. Yeah like the US isnt going to get involved. FOTFL
You got that right. He needs to shut his mouth. Why doesn't Israel hand Panetta the plans and Panetta can then fax them to Iran! What a moron and idiot.
Isreal is a nation my Ass. The shouldn't be a country. I can't disiade who I hate more "Israel" or Iran... Probly Isreal
Perhaps, this would be a natural reason Iran just might want a nuke. After all, Israel has em. We have em. Everybody has em. But, the only nation to actually ever resort to thermonuclear war, why, one Nation Under God! Awww those Christian soldiers...
While I agree it's stupid of the media to divulge all this information. It's nice for us to know. Gives me time to move my investments into something safe before the yit hits the fan.
Might be time to buy a few barrels of oil as well.
Dunkin,
It doesn't matter what the U.S. says or thinks. If Israel attacks Iran you can bet your last dollar we will be involved as well.
DunkinH, just a few months ago, Iran attempted to have foreign ambassadors assassinated on our soil. How is that not a threat to our national security?
You would think that Panetta had been in politics long enough to lie a little better or think a little faster while manipulating the truths. He needs to practice a little more.
We have Japan's fallout, our own fallout, and now perhaps Iranian and Israeli ashes to sprinkle on the vegetables.
Doc and Ouch,
This is simply called "saber rattling" using a method called an "intentional leak". It happens all the time in politics as well as diplomacy. This usually does not work on an egotist in either case.
Yeah, and Iran is also a sovereign nation as well, and if attacked, they also have the right to retaliate against those they feel are responsible. You know, kind of like we did, going into Afghanistan when bin Laden's boys flew those planes into the World Trade Center buildings!
Bin Laden's boys came mostly from Saudi Arabia.
I believe that Panetta is simply telling the Ayatollahs who run Iran that there is one Middle Eastern neighbor that that does not believe their b.s. about having no nuclear weapons ambitions. The Israeli contribution to the Persian Spring will be bunker busters raining down on their rag-topped heads. Of course, all of Iran's Arab neighbours will make the appropriate noises of protest while secretly applauding the action and breathing a big sigh of relief.
Bobby Jones Bia.....Thanks for making my point!!!!!!
Typical politician opens his mouth and spews crap and then has no comment. I bet israel is sharing the love on this one.
An Israeli attack on Iran is not feasible. There is no way Israel could take out all of Iran's nuclear capabilities short of a nuclear strike and thats not going to happen. It would mean a protracted air campaign which neither Israel nor the world would condone. The only way this would work is for Israel to decapitate the entire Iranian supreme council and again that could not happen as they likely are not all in the same place at once.
The only hope rests with the Sentinel Transformer the US "installed" imside Iran. :-)
Well, send us a postcard Israel and let us know how you make out with that.
.
The war companies are getting restless.
They need to sell more killing stuff.
.
Whats the big deal? This sort of planning and thinking goes on all the time in every country with a military. I'm sure nothing here is a surprise to Iran.
Nothing like having "advanced" information provided by, no other than, the Defense Secretary. Talk about giving Iran enough time to scramble their defense posture.
What was that old saying now ? Uhhhhhh......"LOOSE LIPS SINKS SHIPS".
There are more LEAKS in this administration by un-disclosed, un-named, "cloaked", White House Officials or cabinet members than you can shake a stick at. But in this case, a named official, Mr. Panetta, provided the "heads up" information. Maybe this is what Mr. Obama wanted and ordered Panetta to do.
Wait a minute....how about sending the Secretary of the State to Iran to get to the bottom of Iran's Nuclear capability instead of sending the IAEA who just went there under the guise of checking Iran's nuclear capabilities but only "discussed" coming to "the table to discuss the issue" during their visit. While she is there, maybe she could start up another Whitewater project.
ok....
1. Dunkin (1.6) - Iran AND Syria are the world's BIGGEST exporters of international terrorism. To say that they are not a national threat to the U.S. is....moronic.
2. USA-Navy - (1.9) F-U.
3. Skor (1.10) I wonder if the 100's of THOUSANDS of G.I wives would agree with you when dropping those bombs saved their husbands from a VERY costly ground war.
Regardless if the eminent attack of Israel is a fact or not, is very irresponsible for the Secretary of defense of the United States make those statements knowing that the whole Muslim world will have a negative reaction, and anticipate a possible attack from Iran against Israel. I doubt that Israel is going to get any help from the Emirats or the Saudis even if Iran is being hostile to their oil business , is more likely they stay neutral. With Mubarak out Egypt with a heavy artillery in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood is something that Israel must watch. With so many wars is questionable the direct intervention of the US other than give the ok to our military industry to provide unlimited support.
Two things. IF we are serious that we will not accept a nuclear armed Iran, as Obama himself has claimed, then there is no way to stop them short of using military force to do it. The longer anyone waits, the greater the chance the opportunity will be lost. Too early is just as bad as not enough investment would be lost and they could more easily regroup, as well as find a better way to conceal their illegal program.
Second, Panetta is no dummy. Sure, he works for a dummy, but that's another story. It could be that Panetta is either trying to signal to Iran that now is the time to work out a deal which keeps them alive, or it could also be something far different. Maybe this administration is outing, in more frank terms, what is about to happen so that it won't be effective, and so it won't happen. Panetta is a decent person, Obama is not, imo. I don't think Panetta would screw over Israel, but it could be Obama is playing him too.
In any case, either Iran submits to the law it signed or it must be attacked. Anything short of that and Iran gets nukes. It's just a matter of time.
JimP1969
DunkinH, just a few months ago, Iran attempted to have foreign ambassadors assassinated on our soil. How is that not a threat to our national security?
==========
.......Ummm, perhaps because it was a threat to FOREIGN ambassdors, and not domestic Americans, is that difficult to understand?
nothing surprises me, they All can Wig-out with each other..just keep gasoline prices down is All We Ask...
This so-called "leak" is entirely by design. The hope is that the impending threat pressures Iran into diplomatic concession/capitulation. In practice, these ploys are rarely effective, however points for effort to Panetta (and a complicit Israel) for trying anyway...
I think Panetta knows exactly what he's doing.
- The Obama Administration does not want a war with Iran. It is still reeling from dealing with two wars initiated by a cretin named George Bush who, according to research, was going to attack Iraq and Afghanistan regardless of evidence or 9/11.
- I believe the Obama administration (wisely) considers Israel slightly paranoid and exhibiting a national policy that is not conducive to the interests or benefit of the United States. More plainly - Israel, it's government extremely conservative and Right-Wing, does not give two flips what happens to any allies or the rest of the world, so long as "they get what they want."
-Both the American and Israeli intelligence communities - current and former - have admitted that Iran probably is not developing a nuclear weapon. Even if Iran did develop a nuclear weapon, it would never use it against Israel because it would face an equally if not more severe military response.
Israeli is, in a nut shell, a rabid animal which has bitten all it's neighbors and, in reality, created most of the real or imagined enemies that now surround the country.
Israel does not understand nor respect diplomacy. It's only tool is continued war - even if it self destructive, undermines their own livelihood, and worsens the general condition of the global community.
hey navy, it's called spell check. use it.
When the Secretary of Defense of the US says to the media, that there will be war, it's letting the entire world know. The Internet will find it's way to deliver the warning to Iranians. It's not about Israel doing it. The decision has been made. I have always watched to see who never threatens each other, militarily, any longer. No saber rattling between the US, Russia, and China.
But---It really doesn't help your world stature when you pick one poor, pi$$ and country after another to beat up. I bet those old morons at the Kremlin are getting the last laugh, watching the US spend money borrowed from generations yet to come and fall flat like the USSR did.
Hear that sucking sound?? Hear the drumbeat?? Get ready. Someone will strike. Hint: it won't be Israel.
Obama isn't THAT dumb.
BEFORE YOU BLAST PANETTA --He did not leak this and he refuses to comment on it. Someone else did the leak.
Who we don't know. It is not helpful, but having and writing the report is what our intelligence is supposed to be doing.
Where is Toasty?
Hmmm, Saddam is gone, Qadafi is gone, soon Assad will be gone. Only North Korea and Iran left to contemplate. This could be a very productive early half of the century.
I've said this before but i need to say it again.
Let's say a house down the road from you keeps telling everyone you have no right to exist and your house should be burned off the block. All the while they are stockpiling gasoline and testing matches.The authorities all know whats going on but the occupants say that the gas is just for heating their home.
Should you wait for them to burn you down, or take matters into your own hands?
Israel has always had the potential to bomb Iran. For all of you who think this is/should be a secret, forget it. This is no secret. Anyone with a brain knows this is a potential. You think Iran doesn't know this? Right....Frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.
Panetta working with the CIA, and other World Intelligence Agencies would not give out a certain month/date re: Israel attacking Iran--that is foolish--
It is a ploy by the US Government, and Israel to use scare tactics to break Adhdinemajad down from actually attacking with Nuclear Warfare--
Both Governments are hoping Iran will back down, thru "Negotiation"---that is what this is--
Ahdinemajad will not be kept back from actually wiping us all off the face of the map---they must try this "Secret Info Out" first. It' won't work.
School yard bullying--Iran means what it says.
Interesting comments concerning the stupidity of openly discussing the situation. How recently have we heard repeatedly that the American people have the right to know everything the government is doing? No behind closed doors discussions. No planning coordinated with allies of any sort. TRANSPARENCY!!! Let the people know everything.
Now that information is out there for everyone to see, many see the government as irresponsible, stupid, etc. You can't have it both ways.
EROCK17
By the same token, let's say you are a person watching a paranoid member of your community prance around his yard, waving a shotgun and a sub machine gun, spewing unconfirmed claims and out-right lies about another member of the community.
And let us also assume that this particular member of the community has an odd reputation for attacking others when afterwards it was discovered there was no real threat.
And let us also assume that this particular member has a perchance to, I don't know, blatantly flatten entire neighborhoods and communities with carpet bombing, running over buildings filled with innocent families with tanks, and using children as human shields.
Tell me, what would you think of that "frightened" person, who is so concerned with another member of your community?
Hmm?
Let's just say that Israel has it's own little plan of taking care of this problem BEFORE the fire alarm goes off.
roadhouse, they were planning to do it on US soil in order to attack our relationship with Saudi Arabia. in other words, attempt to destroy our relationships through terrorism on our soil. only an idiot wouldn't see that as a problem.
Doc Holiday, in that part of the world EVERYBODY knows what EVERYBODY is up to. There's no secrets there, never have been, never will be. Your enemies are closest! This comes from many moons of time in that part of the planet. Lots of it!! Let's not forget the near-equal rift between the Packies and India. In that side of the pond are but two countries that will not turn the face when slapped. Israel and India. Both will strike on their and their terms only, regardless. India WILL return the favor to P-Stan for the two strikes carried by Packies in Mumbai. How? Proof? No secret that two days after the second Mumbai attack, the Packies pulled its troops out of the P-Stan and A-Stan line and put them along the line with India. That's the sole reason Tommy (Taliban) has freely gained a greater foothold inside A-Stan regardless of what NATO does. Bottom line, A-Stan will go back to Tommy. Packies can relate to them better than the Americans anyway. Opium's gotta pass through Packieland before Jumblatt can get it to Lisbon's port to the world. Remember, Portugal has decriminalized dope. Opium dough has paid for it. Where Ass-man-needs-a-jab screwed up was mouthing off to Israel that the Grey Beards of Iran were gonna rub 'em off the map once the nukes were on line. Israel has gotta strike BEFORE the nukes are on line. She has no choice. My bet is that folks repped by the Shin B's (Mossad's Black Arm) have been in Iran for more than four decades! Sleeper cells, anyone? No one better than the Shin B's, NONE! All Iran can hope for is to raise enough hell to get support from other Islamic nations. Assad loses Syria, Iran loses it's only acting friend on the East Med. Losing Syria enables Israel into Lebanon after the Hezzies. Better to fight the Hezzies in Lebanon than in Israel! Can't protect the castle from what's wanting inside until what's already in is cleaned out, no? Nice barrier to have! Iran is pretty much on its own and that's the perfect time for Israel to strike. I believe she will because she has no choice to do so regardless what the US wants. Anyhow the US troops pulled out of Iraq are all waiting in Kuwait. Again, there are no secrets, never have been and never will. Nothing like a real working experience on the subject to put a spine to an opinion.
If only the entire Middle East, every square inch of it, could be relocated to Newt Gingrich's proposed moon colony. Imagine the quiet.
You always send out misinformation before an attack; it's basic warfare strategy since the beginning of time. What the opposing side has to figure out is what the real plan is and what the chump plan is. Another thing you might want to consider is whether the U.S. is trying to spoil the party for Israel to prevent an attack during those months or at all. Remember the old saying, "My, what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive" or something to that affect. Whatever the true intentions of all parties concern (which will never know until years from now) this could be your trigger for Armageddon, because the location and players described are exactly the way it was foretold. How is that for irony? Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail but doubtful!
The President might want to reinforce the border with a couple divisions before the sh!t hits the fan. The Iranians have already set up several Hezbollah camps in Central and South America; and they are waiting for the orders from Iran to retaliate on U.S. soil. I guess that means no more Super Bowl commercials for me!
oh you jusus christ suposed god please make it happen cant wait to see isra-crap bombed CAN'T WAIT!!!
U don't understand. The "Paisano" is playing Good Cop/Bad Cop. THEY know the U.S. is not likely to launch another war, but see that crazy brother of mine, we can't vouch for him! So deal with us diplomatically while u got the chance or... I have no control over the crazy one! bhroahhh!
We need to think twice about our beloved Israel. They have been talking about killing our United States President.... I will not be voting Obama, but he is still MY PRESIDENT and this is unaceptable.
They wrote about this idea being discussed, not anyone else... Its not going to fall under "Conspiracy"... CNN & other MSM breifly reported it.... The man who owns this Jewish newspaper is so rich that the Israel version of his newspaper has been distributed to all Israel for free for almost 10 years now and it is read by 70% of all Israel.... FYI, resaerch shows he also has made massive contributions to both Gingrich and Romneys superpacs.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/01/21/orders-from-tel-aviv-murder-obama/
And they have a history of these ideas against our country in planning to kill our Presidents and others before. Read more here when MOSAD considered and wrote plans to kill Bush Sr. during his Presidency.
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Perspectives_1/article_8558.shtml
And it has been claimed by our country they have killed western people in the past. Read here.
http://original.antiwar.com/alison-weir/2012/01/24/israeli-assassinations-and-american-presidents/
Bobby, You believe NATO should have attacked the terrorists where they were born? So what if some were originally Saudi nationals, they were trained and protected (including Osama) in Afghanistan. When the Afghan Taliban government refused to hand over the 9-11 masterminds, in fact because they were supporting them; NATO (America) took action against Afghanistan. So your quip eluding that 9-11 had nothing to do with Afghanistan is quite juvenile. My guess is your tin hat is becoming tarnished.
It's no secret - the Military Industrial Complex is softening you up to fund their next profiteering exercise, attacking Iran because...........well that doesn't matter. Panetta and any other so called "defense" experts, think tank strategists, or what have you are well funded, directed, or "enlightened" by the MIC, and the whole mirage is then festered by the media and they are all more than happy to trade your dead sons and daughters for a bit of profit, your tax dollars at work.
The pattern is starting, it has been going pretty strong for about 6 months ever since they saw the end of the profit stream in Iraq. Every couple days there is another "newsflash" a twisted comment interpreted to English, a quote taken out of context, a few well chosen words about the current "enemy", a couple of photos of men in white jackets walking around a factory, rumors, fear mongering all of it. The idea that the "offence" budget is going to be cut has really got them worried and they are working hard to get this Iran dispute cooked up in to some definitive profit making action. So you can count on these "stories" coming out 2 a week for some time. War is the goose that laid the golden egg and they ain't lettin go easy.
Well, we have no idea if this speculation was leaked intentionally. So once again our government may be playing us. I personally think that Panetta and Clinton talk way too much, which is great for some of us that like to speculate about information they reveal, but this little charade can back fire as well. The Federal Reserve is more secretive than our state department.
I suspect the real reason why Israel is going to attack Iran soon is to keep Obama from winning a second term. If Israel attacks, then Oil will spike and we will enter a Depression and everyone will blame President Obama thus Israel gets the person they want for President... A Puppet willing to do the will of the current Dictator of Israel.
And Remember, Israel would not mind at all if World War 3 were to break out as a result of their attack.
And thats my Opinion
Israel is now equipped with a new pig's blood laden WMD.Iran might want to reconsider their position on the earth,as they will not be getting any virgins in heaven,but,rather,Porky's revenge!LOL!BS.BS.This just in,gas prices are headed up just as this news becomes public.Call your brokers and buy,buy,buy those unleaded futures now!Pelosi is on the phone!
The chances Israel strikes Iran are more than 50 50. Are we for real. How intelligent. Hey wait, the chances of me winning the lottery are more than 50 50, hell the chances of me doing anything is 50 50, we are in serious trouble because we have a world full of imbeciles.
Hello folks, our country is broke and weary of war. The elite are ratcheting up the rhetoric and the warmonger sheeple are getting sucked in to the propaganda. If Israel wants to start a fight then let them finish it alone. Let’s take an objective look at the Iran situation. Ask yourself, what would happen if Iran attacked an oil refinery in the US? Of course we would go into Iran and bomb their country. Well, we recently bombed an Iranian oil refinery and they didn’t retaliate. We issued sanctions on their oil and export industries and they didn’t retaliate. Why is that?
While appearing vulnerable they took control of the most sophisticated drone on the planet downloaded and deciphered the encrypted information and have our Military intelligence (I know it’s an oxymoron) people worried that top secret information has been compromised.
Do you believe that the Iranian’s have the capability to bring down a state of the art drone and have it land where they want it to and down load and decipher complex encrypted code? It appears that Iran has been getting help and lots of it from a very sophisticated source or sources. The US already declared war on Iran by issuing sanctions and covertly bombing them but they don’t dare overtly go in because it would jeopardize China’s oil flow, piss off Russia, Turkey and the local Arab countries. This would also force Iraq to support Iran. We got kicked out of Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan is trying to get us to leave their country. The Middle East is kicking us out which means we are running out of staging areas and NATO support for an attack on Iran. The US tried to concoct fraudulent excuses to stir up public support to go into Iran. There was the laughable assassination ruse of the Mexican drug cartel and the more unbelievable law suit stating Iran was part of 9/11. There were also claims that Iran attacked Iraq, etc. The elite are running out of false flags. Iran is out foxing the US because they have the world divided and we can’t command an organized response. The UN Security Council voted against the US a few weeks ago. China and Russia have gone on record that if Iran is attacked they would support Iran. The world is getting fed up and bored with our Imperialism and the elite who orchestrate war.
We have been fighting urban wars of attrition for over 10 years now and we are broke, our allies are broke. We have spent close to 3 Trillion dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq. We can’t afford another expensive protracted war a half a world away and the US citizens are sick of war. There is 85% support for Ron Paul amongst our troops because they are sick of war and he’s promised to end the wars. The lengthy wars have depleted our manpower, equipment, and our political capital.
Last week the Census Department of the Federal Government reported that “50% of the nation’s population were living below the poverty line”. Our nation’s wealth has been exhausted by war so that we could secure profits for the banking, oil, and Military/Industrial cartels. We never saw a dime of it and never will because the 1% elite feel they have a Divine Right at our expense. You know their motto, privatize profits and socialize losses. They truly can’t squeeze much more from the peasantry but they will try.
Our government has been trying to get Iran to do something stupid so that we can attack them but they won’t do it. Iran isn’t Iraq or Afghanistan. They haven’t done anything, aren’t weak and they aren’t bluffing. They are asserting their right as a sovereign nation and have the support of some very powerful countries. If we attack Iran, the war will be at our doorstep and then we will see how brave you who espouse war respond. When you live by the sword, you die by the sword.
I'm just a simple american minding my own..What is this middle east you speak of.
War is never inevitable. But human stupidity is.
This isn't new news. There has been tension and conflicts in the middle east for thousands of years. Look how many times we went in to save people's butts. Please, Israel wipe Iran off the map. That would be one last place for terrorists to spawn.
OH.. BY THE WHY, Israel might attack you, Iran....
Mr.. Pinhead... If you really, just sacked ONE OF OUR BEST ALLIES LIKE THAT.
I hope you , and the current administration, suffer two fold..............
laurel, no need to repost your comments. Here's a friendly note warning you that it may get you a suspension.
Hello folks, war mongering is not a flattering view point or charming characteristic. We are Imperialist bullies around our planet. As a fellow blogger pointed out, “we are America, land of the free (that’s questionable), dictator to the rest of the world”. All of you who are so willing to want to start wars I doubt are willing to pack yourselves and your families up and head to the front lines. You act as if it’s a video game or an entertaining reality show. Do you have no conscience or respect for the sanctity of life? Or is your heart so cold that you see war as a necessary byproduct of our existence on earth? Who really wins in war, nobody, not even those sociopathic maniacs who think they do by profiting from it? Millions of people get physically and emotionally damaged by the atrocities of war. By condoning and supporting wars even though you don’t pull the triggers or drop the bombs are complicit and bare responsibility for that action. Aren’t you worried that you will suffer the karmic repercussions for those actions?
Since the Russian war in 1828, Iran has never attacked another country. Since 1830, when Venezuela seceded from Gran Colombia they haven’t attacked another country. We on the other hand have attacked to name a few:
Libya, Iran, Nicaragua, Haiti, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Angola, Mozambique, Honduras, Chile, Congo, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia, Angola, Columbia, Peru, Panama, Yemen, Pakistan, Grenada, Mexico, etc..
Wake up people we are being herded down the Military Industrial Complex gauntlet again to another false war to enrich the greedy Corporations and distract the American people. Did we not learn anything from the Iraq war where we have killed well over 1 million Iraqi people, lost thousands of American lives and God knows how many hundreds of billions of dollars? Who do you support, humanity or the greedy elite?
I’m not asking you to hate war but to love peace. War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!
just be sure to include the christian fundamentalists with them
Trust..
You seem to be an Anti-semite Pacifist Naive.....
Israel is surrounded by enemies. There is no question in that. That is not the industrial military complex making that rumor up. We have already watched the partial ERADICATION of the Jews to the tune of 6 Million, that we know of....
I personally, do not want to see it again.
We are humans, we are animals, we disagree, we fight, we kill, we love, we hate, we think, we don't think. Your utopia is just that, a Utopia, that does not exist and never will. It is very noble but oh so naive.......
Israel has to fight with somebody to be in business!
Earlier it was with Iraq to get dangerous WMDs out and now with Iran to get more dangerous WMDs out.
Let Israel attack Iran to its hearts content.
Israel should attack Pakistan also. Pakis have too many most dangerous WMDs to sell.
Have any of you considered the possibilities as to WHY Secretary Panetta said that? I suspect that it was done intentionally.
This is not news my friends. Not in the least. Israel has said as much on numerous other occasions. They will NOT allow weaponized uranium to be had by Iran. So fuel to the fire? Simply conversion disorder ; ] In fact scare tactics to let people know we the U.S. are just NOW taking the threat seriously.
What this eludes to in covert terms is that Israel is PROMPTING us the U.S. to take covert actions to dissuade the Iranians before such steps are necessary. We seem to have an open channel at some level that the Israelis do not. If we are able we must use it to quail any bird dogging to the contrary. As such the Israeli's have only but a window to wait.
So battter up, no pinch hitters here, send the best to base and see whos hitting. Otherwise oil will be rising sooner than later. ; ]
Cheers
JonJon...
I love that old liberal line about Iraq WMD's......
You do realize that it is a documented fact that we (The USA) sold them chemical weapons right?
You do realize that Saddam used them on the Kurds in Halabja, Right? (Also well Documented)
You do realize that the UN was NEVER able to prove, over a 17 year period, that all those Chemical Weapons (you know, the ones the USA sold them) were properly destroyed, right? (also well documented)
So, if you have no proof that the Chemical Weapons ( you know, the ones the USA sold them) were destroyed properly? (again well documented by the UN)
Is it not safe to assume that maybe, just maybe, they weren't actually destroyed?
Please answer, WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT, that question?
I am eagerly awaiting that answer....from anyone?
"Panetta believes there is a “strong likelihood” that Tel Aviv will launch such an offensive in April, May or June. "
The likelihood of an attack by Israel is not very surprising, but Panetta putting a 'time frame' of April-June is interesting. The only questions is "What will Obama's reaction be?"
My guess is that he will try to figure what response will give him the best chance to be reelected, and act accordingly. My guess is that his campaign is already using 'focus groups' to answer that question.
@ Moped
Nice rebuttal, i actually enjoyed reading your opinion on it.
The only problem i see with it is the other neighbors on the block have been watching the house stockpiling gassoline through their mini-blinds and have a sneaking suspicion that the crazy neighbor with the shotgun may actually be on to something this time.
Although adding "hmmm?" at the end makes you sound smug.
Ken Trout,
I would suggest you take whatever hat it is you may be wearing off.
The power you think it has to assume an entire situation based on 8 words doesn't work. Now put away those ruffled feathers.
Ouch Your Brain, remember the old story about the boy who cried wolf....your question answered, you lie enough pretty soon people stop believing anything you say. The FACT IS, with or without hindsight there were no WMD's in Iraq....and don't spout the old Right Wing War Monger line that they were smuggled to Syria. So either we were lied to and the intelligence community knew there were no WMD's or we were lied to because they swore there were....either way... a lie is a lie is a lie.
And further this has nothing to do with Israel....this is abouts profits nothing more nothing less. And yes I do know that the Military Industrial Complex sold chemical and other weapons to Iraq and Iran you think that is news, and we had proof that the great bulk of them which are for the most part not "storage" friendly were used against the Kurds, and in the Iran vs Iraq War.
So we should just assume that they have WMDs, nuclear weapons, bad intentions, a fail safe delivery system....and go attack.....you go, then send your kids, and grand kids first...I'll be right behind you.
You should look at a map, Iran is surrounded by enemies....we all are it's a small world. But the biggest enemy is the Military Industrial Complex and people like you who promote, push and repeat the lies, the rumors, the fear mongering.....you are aiding and abetting the enemy.
If Netanyahu wants to embark such a strike, then so be it. He should either do it, or shut up.
This dithering over the past 2 years about it, it makes Israel seem weak, therefore this sabre rattling policy weakens Israel.
Hopefully this clown's reign will soon be over. His foreign policy is shadow puppets pretending to be hawkish.
I for one don't care if Israel does something. But they shouldn't be able to rely on us to save them again when they piss off yet another of their neighbors.
@Toasty McGrath - Their neighbors have been well beyond pissed for a really long time.
Remember just a couple of months ago when Panetta and the MIC warhawks were whining about that $100 billion cut in the defense budget? Tonight's revelation could be considered a logical response. It sounds like Israel, Panetta, and the MIC may do anything it takes to get their budget restored, which includes taking a chance on starting WWIII if necessary.
Another possibility would be that Israel has decided that their future seems more secure with the US Republican Party in power, and if this report is true and Israel does try to start WWIII on their own this Spring, their intent will be to try to divide the US Jewish community and pull liberal US Israeli supporters away from the Democratic Party, which my guess is would try to respond with restraint after the Iranian response to an initial Israeli attack was a massive retaliatory missile strike on Israel. My guess is that the Israeli warhawk community and their MIC friends here have decided that getting the US Republican Party back in power would be worth more to them in the long run than the lives of tens of thousands of Israelis or the financial security of millions of US citizens are.
Yes, nearly half of Americans are living close to the poverty line or below, and yet, the most important thing to Panetta and the MIC warhawks is keeping their gravy train fat and happy, regardless of what that position does to the financial future of the average American citizen. Over the last 10 years we have wasted the wealth of an entire generation keeping the mad cow at bay, and now it is already hungry again, only a short time after the pullout from Iraq.
Another part of the problem is that Iran nationalized its western oil interests 33 years ago and today oil demand is in out-of-control growth mode worldwide while oil supply is increasingly becoming depleted. It has long been predicted by many scholars and resource-depletion experts that the 21st Century will be a time of resource wars as the resources critical to continuing economic development become in increasingly short supply. The recent decision on the Keystone XL pipeline also has our oil industry scheming to come-up with another source, and goading Israel into attacking Iran will only be the first step in securing the additional resources they crave.
Frankly it would appear that if we vote to put the Republican Party back in power this coming Fall, that the rapid approval of deepwater offshore drilling, the Keystone XL pipeline, and quite likely war with Iran over its oil and nuclear power and defense aspirations would seem a certainty, along with a great shift of financial resources away from those of us Americans who are in need, and any chance of restoration of our civilian economy to continue to feed that ever more hungry and ungrateful bull.
This Fall we have a chance that we haven't had since Bill Clinton was President to trim the bull's toenails and divert that spending instead to deficit reduction as well as to assist in the restoration of our civilian economy. Let's not let the MIC warmongers and profiteers take this chance away from us! If Israel chooses foolishly to launch a first-strike attack against Iran, I would be quite happy to sit back and watch the fireworks from afar, with the hope that Israel and Iran can settle their differences once and for all, so that the rest of us can get on with our lives without them or the need to continue to throw lots of money that we don't have at their problem over and over again.
50/50 chance. Well ...duh!
Moped,
While everyone else is going above 55 MPH on the Freeway your Moped arse is just causing traffic jams going below 35 MPH on the Freeway.
For a moment he did, now he is knuckling in to his boss eventhough he has tons of dirt on quite a few people. You think that after being the Director of the CIA (get more dirt on everyone) becoming the Secretary of Defense is a promotion.
Nice try with the Bush Bashing. It is not the decision of the US President as to which US Laws to Enforce. By doing that (ignoring US Laws) both the Senate and the House of Representatives will both agree on a Impeachment of the US President. That is Junior High School Civics. So the US Laws: President Clinton's H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act Of 1998" JUSTIFICATION WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, Section 2 "Findings". After US Military Operation Desert Fox, 1998, H.R.4655 becomes US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom 1998 to 2011. As by US Law it takes both the US Senate and the US House of Representatives to Declare War; so to Declare War With Iraq, the US Senate passes US Law, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution.
As far as Money, It is the Job of US Congress (Congressional Appropriation Committees) to find the money for the US Laws that they created, NOT the President of the United States of America.
So much for your "research" Moped,
Wikipedia General Disclaimer:
You want me to embarass you with what you posted before.
Really, as if you know, if you did your would be railing against President Obama with his 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy, Iran could do anything (and did) with No US Interventions; that started this whole mess in the first place:
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/03/9928679-iran-2009-to-2012-straight-of-hormuz
Because most of us are getting out in less than 5 months, this will all be on Generation X and Generation Y to fix President Obama's F**k ups, just like we had to fix all the other President's F**k ups.
Iraq:
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/10/17/8369272-iraq
As if you even know anything. Have you ever been involved in the Intelligence gathering cycle or been involved witht the Intelligence Communities. If not you are speaking out of the smelly end. Do you know anything from firsthand experience about Nuclear Weapons.
Really go read up on the Arab Israelis Wars.
Why don't you go learn something about Amim Al Husseini, Arab League of Nations (Original Purpose), Islamic World's ongoing Alliance ("Blood Oath") with Hitler since 1933, the Pan Arabic Plan (in writing), etc..
Ask yourself instead of their foaming at the mouth about Israel, spending most of their money on weapons and Islamic Jihadists to destroy Israel, US and US Allies why don't they spend all that Oil Wealth Money on their own people (why do you think there was that "Student Rebellion" at Iran).
To gain an understanding about what I am talking about why can't the Arab League of Nations and all the other Islamic Nations be happy with what they have, look at this map:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WZxz7n0EuxI/TWPBh35MpyI/AAAAAAAABsM/H0Z88IpqYOc/s1600/League_of_Arab_States_members.png
Instead they continue to attack Israel based on the original intent of the creation of the Arab League of Nations (drive the Jews into the Sea) and the Amim Al Husseini Pan Arabic Plan that got rid of the original inhabitants of Palestine the Orthodox Christians and Jews, and filled Palestine with (unwanted) Jordanians and Egyptians by force (this is why the Jordanians do not allow the Palestinian Refugees to mix into their Population, and keep the Palestinian Refugees in the "camps" (surrounded by armed guards and razor wire).
So because the Arab League kept attacking Israel they lost the Sinai Pennsula, Gaza, Palestine, West Bank, Golan Heights, part of Egypt, part of Lebanon, part of Jordan. And being sore losers, the Arabs demanded all of this back thru the US puppets, as the land that they lost to the Jews in exchange for Peace; yeah sure when their whole Arab League of Nations Charter of Amin Al Husseini was the Elimination of the Jews.
Ouch! My Balls, is more correct about the Chemical Weapons than most of you would want to believe. That is all I can say about my involvement with the US Miltary Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars.
A Yank in Australia,
Yank my crank, I disproved your nonsense a long time ago.
Bobby Jones Bia,
What Ken Troutstated about Osama Bin Laden, Al Quada (Anti Saudi Governemnt and anti US Islamic Jihadist Organization), the Islamic Jihadists Training Camps as supported by the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government (backed by USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Iran) is exactly correct.
I told you before to stop using wikipedia. I was with the Teams attached to SAD just weeks after the 9/11 2001 Attacks.
Old Timer-88224 - This Fall we have a chance that we haven't had since Bill Clinton was President to trim the bull's toenails and divert that spending instead to deficit reduction as well as to assist in the restoration of our civilian economy.
Shows how senile you are, you don't even realize the DAMAGE President "I did not have sex with that woman" Be Ill Clinton did to the US Economy. His removal of the US Laws that made Illegal the Causes of previous Depressions, RESULT the Current $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Financial Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Credit Crisis", etc. (all the same crap that happened during the 1929-1939 Great Depression).
President Be Ill Clinton was TOLD in writing not to Eliminate these US Laws by the US Congressional Research Agency. But no just like his Most Favored Trade Nation Status for China so that he could get (still does) money from the Chinese to start his Clinton Foundation, as mentioned in his Impeachment Hearings as "Chinagate", he could make tons of money by removing these US Laws. And still he continues to lie, how about asking him why the 5 million USDs donated to the Haitians thru the Clinton Foundation did not get to the Haitians until 2012, and that was only 2 million (we are talking about people dying, not your political cronism).
Old Timer-88224 = "Pants on Fire".
You are sounding just like the Idealist Academic no Real World Experienced people that continuely spout nonsense, why don't you go look at the previous RESULTS of what happened when President Clinton closed down 14 US Military Installations at the US.
AND WHO WAS IT THAT CREATED THE US MILITARY DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX AND WHY. Give names, dates, conditions of the US, motives, who was involved, the precedences (other Nations), etc..
EXPLAIN TO ALL THE NEWSVINE POSTERS WHY YOU ARE DEMANDING TO REPEAT THE SAME MISTAKES AND EXPECT A DIFFRENT RESULT. With Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here".
Lots of brainwashed hypocrites on here. "Israel is a soverign nation and has the right to strike at Iran if it feels threatened."
Does that mean that the sovereign nation of Iran who is not religious bigots and only have one religion in every position of politics and public service like Isreal, who does have an illegally built nuclear capability and threatens Irans safety constantly, has the right to strike Isreal if it feels threatened? Looks like the hollywood Jews have really done a job on the weak minded in the USA.
The false flag op during George W.'s last year with fake torpedos and fake mines attacking US ships, not unlike the now unclassified lie that the CIA portrayed in the Gulf of Tonkin which started the Vietnam War did not work.
Then the false flag op with a supposed Iranian trying to kill the Isreali diplomat to the US didn't fly, I guess they think they should either make this public and gauge the public reaction in the US and see if it is ok for them to use the bombs and planes we built and gave to them along with billions a year when we cant even employ our own citizens when our own infrastructure is collapsing under our feet.
Neocon-zionist-Mormon Mittler will be along shortly to tell us he's for it .... then after the attack ... Willard will tell us he was against it ....
Israel just warned the Iranians if they continue in the direction they have been they will pay the price and I don't think those Israelis have a sense of humor, so the Iranians can call their bluff or fold it's that simple !
If Israel attacks Iran they should bear the entire cost of that war in every way. It would be a tremendous stupidity for US to get involved in such a conflict. Screw Israel, screw Iran. Let these f...king barbarians destroy themselves. Warmongers deserve zero sympathy and support.
Obama will make a thoughtful response. If Israel feels they are threatened, then they should do what they need to do and accept full repsonsibility and cost. They should not go in expecting the US to shore up their preemptive strkie. We do not need another war or military action. We need to be careful here, Netenyahu is a right wing radical who has strong allegiance with right wing radicals in this country. These people never heard of the word diplomacy. They are only interested in military might. Long term peace int he middle east will have to be brokered by Israel with the understanding that many in the region do question their existence. This is a fact. But, perhaps, through real diplomacy, they can come to agreements with their neighbors. For that to happen, they would have to see thier neightbors as equals-unlikely. When we have people like Newt Gingrich over here stating that the Palestinians are an invented people, there is little hope for progress.
The US should stay out of this mess and let Israel, which has been in existence since 1947, fight its own battles and get off the US dole.
@david-475776
Consequently, I enjoyed reading your long, verbose rant gushing for Israel and demonizing the Middle East.
I've been out for a number of years myself - and have done a considerable amount of research into the issue. I have a rather large library here at home to look into.
Examining a few chapters from Crucible Of Power: A History Of U.s. Foreign Relations Since 1897, by Howard Jones, it seems fairly clear that, yes,
George Bush as well as hie cohort of fellow bandits pretending to be acting within the best interests of the American people, had already made up their minds regardless of what the evidence stated. And, as I'm sure you know, the President possesses the power to command combat troops without the approval of the congress or Senate.
Also - no official war has ever been declared concerning the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. It is for all intensive purposes a "conflict" of some vague description that can be selectively interpreted as a "war" when one sees fit. Additionally, because of the "non-war" status of these conflicts, the Geneva Conventions do not apply to any detainees or "prisoners of war."
It's nice to see that you've served our country so honorably - but what I really read out of it is that you probably aren't functioning on an unbiased rational. I realize you are completely surrounded by your fellow soldiers, you are inundated within an environment that only sees enemies in every direction it looks, and also has only a shallow reflection for truth, reality, or the gravity of the situation.
Because that's how military like their troops - functionally clueless as to the actual nature of what they are doing but highly motivated to do or believe what they are told.
Are you familiar with how Israel came about or any of it's origins? Think carefully before you answer that.
Because you will discover, if you are careful, that there are two general versions involving the annexation and foundation of Israel.
And if you are even more careful in your readings, you may also do a little research into the background of Zionism, the ideology behind Zionism, and their rather carefree nature of deliberately altering historical facts, skewing records, or accidentally "neglecting" to mention a few items here and there that might seem a little damning.
I would also suggest you read into the GoldWater report involving Israel's "humanitarian" action into Palestine about a year or two ago. I'm sure your "Kool Aid" tinted glasses will provide some very entertaining story to backup or support Operation Cast Lead.
But you -clearly- know what you are talking about - as your long, articulated, completely clear-headed rant demonstrates.
IDO Iran has been in war mode ever since the USA attacked Iraq .. another threat from Israel ir the USA in not news to Iran .. the so called leaks or admissions from our state department mean nothing ... the Administration could tell Iran the time and date of an attack and the gov of Iran would not do anything more than what they do every day ,, they have been prepared for years..
It should have happened already. Iran is lucky it hasn't.
Anybody who makes the arguement that Iran should have nukes because Isreal does needs to wake up and think more. I'm not saying that Israel is the bestest ever. I am saying you are in a haze if you think all countries share the same level of international responsibility. And you are in a fairly good sized haze if you think Iran and Isreal have the same level of international responsibility.
Israel will attack Iran for two reasons. 1) Israel wants to and 2) Iran wants it to. Iran's tyrants hold power, as is typical, by pointing to a strawman outside its borders. Anybody living in, oh say, ANY NATION IN THE WORLD, should have experienced some degree of that by now. If people looked internally in Iran, which they have begun doing, they notice the problem is Iran's leaders, not the outside world. But Iran's leaders want a war before an uprising, because like any nation, when at war, the people rally to defend.
This consequence DOESN'T mean Israel should or will hold back. Just saying it is pretty clear what happens from here. The only thing that prevents Iran from being bombed is a) they stop making nuclear weapons (which they are, and they won't stop) b) There is a revolution in Iran before an attack c) Israel is held back by the United States from making an attack (and I think the clock is out on this one already).
Come on, people - do you really think Iran and Israel didn't already have all this information? Secret? The only ones surprised are the ones that just read about it.
@Blackbird who said:
It would seem to me that it is very feasible. I hate pulling it out again, but here is the link to the US bases which surround Iran:
http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-surrounded-by-us-military-bases-2011-12
Do you really think the fighter jets are going to fly all the way to back to Israel to refuel? They can launch even their short range missiles from our bases. We always say yes to the government of Israel, why would we stop now?
I have to give it to Israel - timing is everything, France will have it's election during that time period and Kuwait seems to be making a bold move in it's February 2nd election. It looks like Kuwait may just kick the US and its bases out of Kuwait, and side with Iran. Obama says the US troops will be home by the end of the year - but we keep bases in countries like Kuwait and the UAE etc, in perpetuity. If the US is kicked out by Kuwait - it will take us time to tear down these permanent bases - Israel needs to attack Iran before the US leaves or we could be drawn into this mess via Kuwait.
Kuwait is a very wealthy nation - it may not want to "fight" a war but it has the capacity to buy state of the art weapons for it's ally Iran.
Watching Link TV yesterday, Mosaic News (you can watch on the Internet as well) - Israel's own Mossad clearly stated that if Israel were to attack Iran it would be "stupid."
Unfortunately, the US will get dragged into this unless we cut our ties with Israel but since our government is sponsored by the Israeli government - that will never happen. What I have yet to hear is how the people of Israel feel about starting a conflict with a sovereign nation that has fully cooperated with the IAEA. I do not believe that all Israeli citizens are warmongers - but their government is.
I fear for the people of Palestine as well, if the Israeli government bombs or sends missiles into Iran - who's to say that one didn't "accidentally" detonate in Gaza and other Palestinian areas. It's the perfect time for a smokescreen operation on the Palestinians. Everyone will know that it was not an accident, yet no one will do a thing.
Kuwait: http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=50362
Iran has not flinched since this war of words started. No strait was closed, no foreign ships were hurt, the IAEA said that Iran could not build a nuclear weapon at this point, but with the bulk of our troops leaving the area, Israel seems to have a deadline for attacking Iran in mind - i.e. before the US exits ground troops. So what will the false flag be this time?
Get our soldiers out before April - let Israel fight its war of hatred on its own.
Lets just clear up a few misconceptions shall we? Im too busy laughing at everyones contention that our profit stream is "drying" up in Iraq so we have to attack another Middle Eastern country. NEWSFLASH: We dont own ANY oil rights in Iraq whatsoever. Check the IMF reports, Chinese and Russian companies bought ALL the oil drilling rights in Iraq.
The entire Muslim world will be angry at us. NEGATIVE. Saudi Arabia as well as Turkey and other Sunni national factions want us to attack Iran and reduce the threat.
There were NO WMDs in Iraq: WRONG, chemical weapon stockpiles were Saddams specialty and he was the only leader in the last 50 years to promote the use of chemical warheads on SCUDs effectively killing hundreds of thousands. Sure they were Kurds but someone who has pulled the trigger once will have a greater probability of doing so again.
The MID wants to ensure that the budget cut wont happen thats why they are beating war drums. UH NO. If you look at the specifics of the cuts, they arent reducing combat MOS or offensive weaponry. They are cutting support personnel and logistic hardware. Im sure contractors can fill these niches.
That's the whole point why everyone here is so pizzed off. Ten years of meaningless warfare, three TRILLION dollars and six thousand lives and souls later and what do we have to show for it? That's right - zero. Zippo. Zilch. Nothing. Nada. GOOSE EGG!
With all the blood and treasure we have sunk into this seventh century sandbox, we should ALL be driving around in Ford Excursions with the emergency brake on and have our home heat cranked up to ninety degrees with the windows open this time of year.
Keep dreaming. YES, they are. EVERYTHING is on the chopping block given this deficit. And the military spending is included. The horse is already out of the barn as far as that's concerned.
Well, then the rest of the Mid East (i.e., the Arab League, Saudis, Turks, etc.) can get off their can get off their collective dead a$$es if they want Iran attacked and feel that strongly about it. We're (the U.S.A.) are tired, broke, and FED UP with these asinine wars. Period.
black kettle, that comment proves that you have no idea what you are talking about
do you know what "airborne refueling" is?
and we certainly aren't going to "let Israel fire their missiles from our bases"
did you know that during "desert storm" we prevented Israel from bombing Iraq? all we did was refuse to give the IFF code to their planes, and told them to sit down and let us handle things
Moped,
Uh, huh, I will be laughing my arse off as I am cashing my US Military Retirement Checks.
Your saying "Rants" versus my Firsthand Experience. Good Luck Muther F**ker.
Black Kettle & Sand Creek...lest we forget,
Why don't you go research what is at those US Military Installations that "Surround" Iran. I honestly do not believe that a US Civilian Administrative "Clerk" is going to throw a computer printer at Armed Iranian Military Personnel.
Yank in Australia...
You do realize, that Chemical Weapons are considered WMD's...right?
David, the guy working on his Ph D, has First Hand Experience, because no one apparently taught him in school that capitalizing letters of words doesn't really make them any more Important, It Just lookes like you are Over Compensating Like A Young Child Who Doesn't Know How To Write Properly.
Tee hee.
David,
I also noticed that you have a peculiar pattern to your speech -
you tend to repeat yourself over and over,
you cite the same information over and over,
you seem to have "attached" to yourself to words or phrases that you seem to think are awfully important or meaningful - but don't seem to recognize what they actually mean.
And writing your very own articles - riddled with ALL CAPITAL LETTERS and EXPLETIVES, yammering on about how you HAVE BEEN THERE, and you HAVE REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE - -
This tells me you actually don't have any real world experience,
That you're just saying things that sound important and then yelling them louder,
And you seem to think that posting LARGE BLOCKS OF TEXT - which seems impressive - except when one thumbs through your rambling blocks of text -
It's kind of apparent that your writing is very crudely strung together - which is hardly the handiwork of any self respecting scholar or student.
Or military officer.
Have I hit the nail on the head yet?
Proof that you know NOTHING about US Law and the US Military. The US Law that RESTRICTSthe US Presidential War Powers to prevent another Vietnam (US Military Escalations), US Law, 1973 War Power Act. As stated by my Instructor from Harvard (Law School) during my US Military Officer's Basic Course, "US Military Officers MUST know the US Laws better than those that will prosecute them (you)".
Keep proving that you know nothing, Moped.
riley-1759556,
The Chinese and Russian Federation did not have to buy anything. The Allies of Iran, the Kurdistanis(since the Iran Iraq Wars), and the Shiites at Iraq (generations ago from Iran) controlled the Northern and Southern Iraqis Oil Fields and Fundamentalist Islamic Iran negotiated with their Allies the Chinese and Russian Federation to get the Iraqis Oil Fields, making the Libyan Oil of Strategic Importance to the US European Allies (except Germany as they have been getting NG and Oil from the Russian Federation since the 1980s, as to why they (Chancellor of Germany Merkel) refused to involve the Deutsche Bundeswehr (German Military) with Libya.).
Before you say something really uninformed Moped it was our arses that were on "standby" for redeployment to Libya attached to SAD to provide Security and Targeting capabilities as "Boots on the Ground" at Libya fortunely for us, Teams from AFRICOM ended up going; unfortunately for us we were previously redeployed from here (Afghanistan) to Yemen as one of President Obama's previous "Secret Wars" that Failed after President Obama turned his back on US Ally President of Yemen and we redeployed back to here (Afghanistan). Dumb arse Senator Liebermann confirmed that we were at Yemen, resulting in Al Quada Yemen offering bounties on us.
Because US Ally Saudi Arabia became surrounded by enemies, Iraq to the North, Yemen to the South, Egypt to the West, Iran to the East, due to President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy, the King of Saudi Arabia stated, "President Obama gave Iraq to Iran as a Gift on a Golden Platter". President Obama sent then Secretary of Defense Gates to placate (ignored) the US Ally Saudi Arabian Government.
Our work since the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars basically flushed down the sh!tter by President Obama in a few months. Like I stated before NOT our problem in less than 5 months, ALL ON Generation X and Generation Y.
Anyone who actually -reads- what you just wrote? And looks up any of it?
Will quickly realize you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about or dealing with,
Nor do you understand how to write coherently or stay on topic,
And seem to be just . . . wanting to be rather hateful on the internet.
*salutes the keyboard commando*
Back to your Top Secrete Operations which you cannot disclose.
We desperately await your personal Declassified version of events - complete without any verifiable documents backing up your "background" and what not.
Posting on an Open Source Media like Msnbc certainly is SOP for your Top Secret Missions.
Clearly evident you have Never Served in the US Military, it is called "Battle Speak".
That is exactly what we do after our subordinates do not understand. Continually repeat until they understand.
I won't give a f**k what your opinion is in less than 5 months when most of us finally go on Retirement again for the last time as "Too Old" to ever be Recalled to Active Duty again.
Uh, huh, go listen to the scholars (Idealist Academics) and Students (with no Real World Experience, like you). Like I said before I don't care, this is all your problem Generation X and Generation Y.
I am one of the "Up thru the Ranks US Military Officers" (Earned US Military Officer Commission) not your Academy Graduates "Officers and Gentlemen" (Political Nominees).
If this were a Game Show I would tell you to "BUY A CLUE".
Yes, you did pounded those nails right into your own left and right eyes.
"I HAVE AN ADVANCED DEGREE IN DICK TECHNOLOGY!" - Doctor Wong Burger.
Using your "Battle Speak" and repeating yourself and sprinkling military jargon or acronyms in to your posts doesn't make you sound military or "informed."
It makes you sound stupid. And desperate.
Kay?
Pew pew. Have fun killing them ragheads and hyper ventilating. Good luck reaching anyone with your spazzy pseudo-rantings. It's a pity your types will be extinct in a decade or so.
There is really no point to paying any attention to of your irrelevant (and erroneous) comments.
Laters.
Not "My" Secret Documents, but the Unclassified versions of the Classified (Firsthand experience):
US intensifying secret campaign of Yemen airstrikes
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43333763/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times
Secret assault on terrorism widens on 2 continents
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38706662/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times
U.S. terror war in Yemen frustrated by politics
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39708280/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa
U.S. Leading Assaults on al Qaeda in Yemen
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/02/eveningnews/main6048291.shtml?tag=dis
Yemen helps U.S. fight Al Qaeda, on its own terms
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40497437/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times
At this point in time most Newsvine Posters would tell you Moped to suck something, but I will not, just maybe you will Newsvine "Get Smarter Here".
To Moped - Good posts on David. I think his real name is David Wurmser, Paul Wolfowitz or Douglas Feith. He is definately a neo conservative.
Some of you people need to stop saying that we are the only country to use a nuke. Do you even know why we did use a nuke? Because if we had invaded Japan an estimated ONE MILLION US DEAD not counting wounded or the multiple millions of Japanese. Now to the Israel-Iran conflict let Israel attack them I could care less but if the US gets involved (which they probably will) I will be pissed cause then my ass would probably be drafted (Im only 16) and I sure as sh!t won't fight in a useless war unless Iran decides to attack the US mainland. VOTE RON PAUL 2012!
David######
People profiting from war has been around a long time, but if you read up on the Civil War you will understand how and where it began to be developed in the USA....they don't have an address....but they do rely on fools like to you to maintain their profit margins.
Do you always dismiss the observations and presentation of facts by others when they differ with your own interpretation....yes.... that's a sure sign that stupid has set in you better take something for it.
You seem to dismiss every point of history that you can not use to justify your position....do you work for a defense contractor??? Or are you just too young to remember Viet Nam etc, you choose to be one of the fools because you wear blinders by choice but don't spout your crap and expect the rest of us to follow.....YOU PROMISE EVERYONE HERE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SACRIFICE YOURSELF, YOUR CHILDREN AND THEIR CHILDREN FIRST FOR THE MIC ...... then we will get right behind you, but if you are like the rest of them you want to yell CHARGE from the rear a coward scared of his own shadow.
Ouch My Brains....Chemical Weapons are only WMD's (a relatively new term made up by the MIC to scare people like you) if one, you actually have them and 2, if you have the ability to effectively deliver them....otherwise they are just pesticide and dangerous only to those who try to store them..... What the Iraqi may have had was obviously not really Weapons of Mass Destruction quality because when they used them in the Iran Iraq War they were not very effective and killed as many on one side as the other and when they used them against the Kurds all they got was bad press and more hatred from the Kurds the killed and maimed were limited.....but of course you and the rest of the MIC sheep choose to ignore facts like this because it doesn't fit in to your compressed view of the world.
To those of you who continue to deny history (you know who you are) THERE WERE NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION (As they have been termed by Cheney's Masters the MIC) CHEMICAL OR NUCLEAR THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DELIVERED IN ANY CREDIBLE MANNER FOUND ANYWHERE IN IRAQ....THAT HAS BEEN ADMITTED BY YOUR HERO GEORGE BUSH HIMSELF, THE CIA, THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT ETC ETC ETC......For God's sake get over it they lied, they started a war on false pretenses, lots of people on both sides died.......and lot's of people on one side made a lot of money. In Japan the history deniers blame Pearl Harbor on the US, the Tennessee Tea Baggers want to remove the word "slavery" from the History Books, Israelis committed acts of terrorism against the British, the Trickle Down Theory of Economics doesn't work at the bottom but works great at the top......Deny history and you deserve to repeat it.
Yank,
Your life is so delusional it is funny. Keep drinking that Kool Aid.
Ouch My Brains (obviously in the same region as your balls) OHHHHHHHHHH wow delusional and Kool-Aid heavy gear man....go back to your bomb shelter, cover your eyes and ears so the truth or facts can never get through and live scared ever after.
Name calling - always the last refuge when hit in the face with the FACTS.
Ouch!Myballs: I am not a liberal.
There are more than you mentioned.
Hope you know about Iran-Contra and 1991 Iraqi war!
In this war, Israel and Saudi Arabia were partners in decision making!
Most of us know that WMDs was a hoax to attack Iraq in 2003.
Here Saudi Arabia played a major behind the scene actor!
Since 2003, in eight years, future traders, rating agencies, Wall Street, oil companies and their lobbyists managed to transfer five trillion from oil importing countries to oil exporting nations.
Hope most are experiencing the damages of these misadventures!
Iran issue is another WMD hoax led by Israel and Saudi Arabia and their gangs!
Now watch for more to come!
duh!, I would think that the country you are launching an attack from (SA) would have some say in said attack
as far as Israel is concerned, the US prevented Israel from launching retaliatory attacks on Iraq by refusing to give Israel the IFF codes for their aircraft
as far as the contras are concerned, its funny how your gross bias always gives a free pass to murderous, brutal left-wing guerrillas and dictators, and condemn only the right-wing guerrillas and dictators.
Yank,
You are a comedian. I'm still waiting on your "Facts"...
All I have seen is the Contents section of the "The Guide to Paranoid, Right-Wing, Tin-Foil Hat Conspiracies"
Please, when you can produce some of facts instead of your idiot conspiracy theories, come see me.
Ouch My Brains - Facts...go back to my last post 1.107....bold print.....last paragraph - that's the FACTS Jack....since then you have come up with "delusional, Kool-Aid, paranoid, idiot, comedian"...but you have not produced anything to dispute the FACT, don't you hate that when people call your bluff, bluster and name calling and make you look like a fool....I'll bet you get that a lot.
Now since you still haven't produced any WMD's from the phony war in Iraq....and you haven't admitted that there weren't any..... who is delusional and in denial. It would seem that you are the one who is paranoid "extreme fear of a perceived threat to one's well-being" it's you who are scared of some photos of men walking around in a factory with white coats and clipboards....I on the other hand am not.
It's people like you (the weak minded, the paranoid) who make it easy for them to run this protection racket they are running. When you come to your senses come see me, until then you stay there on your trusty computer in you little white house in New Jersey or Kansas or wherever and don't venture outside you might see your own shadow.
actually yank, Iraq did have WMDs, but had already used them (on the Kurds and Iranians) by the time that we decided to go marching in. what little was found was leftover dregs that had been forgotten about and were unusable. the claim that they were making more was wrong and heavily pushed by Iraqi exiles as well as the wishful thinking of some kid that wanted to finish the job that daddy never did (which is a pathetic reason).
I didn't support the second Iraq invasion, and thought it would bring us plenty of grief and enormous cost. I was right. we should have concentrated entirely on cleaning up Afghanistan
Danwill, true and I made that point earlier, it is a plain and simple fact as you have indicated that there were no credible WMDs in Iraq when the US attacked on the basis that there were and that they were preparing to use them.....it was crap then it's crap now...... and all the history deniers can deny it all they want to but it don't change the FACT.
As far as Afghanistan goes I have to disagree....we should have Napalmed all the poppy fields and left it at that....then went back next season and did it again. No one has ever "cleaned up" Afghanistan and they have been trying since Alexander the Great.....and even the Big Bad Policeman of the World the United States of America with the help of sheep like Australia are not going to clean it up now or ever, the day we pull out they will go right back to middle ages just like when we got there.
But it was a great profit stream for the MIC so at least there was something.
"Someone bombed our shores, killed 3000 poor souls, we got pissed off sought revenge and sacrificed 6000 more" go figure. No I think cleaning up Afghanistan is something that will never happen....they don't want to be cleaned......but they were happy to take the money.
Yank,
So, we didn't find any, therefore they didn't have any? That's EFFFING STUPID.
They had them, they used them, we or the UN COULD NOT prove that they were ever destroyed. Thus they are a credible threat.
Can you wrap your tiny rat brain around that concept.
You truly are a comedian... I'm shaking in my boots! POS!
Ok...Ouch, you say "we didnt find any, therefore they didnt have any?" RIGHT, otherwise we would have found them. Not exactly sure who's point your trying to make.
Then you say "They had them, they used them." RIGHT AGAIN, thats why they DIDNT HAVE ANY.
Then you say "UN COULD NOT prove they were ever destroyed." OK, you do understand "proof" meant paperwork (orders to do so and documented action). THATS WHY we sent inspectors to search for them and NONE WERE FOUND. So inspectors were quickly pulled out so an attack could be made on the basis of WHAT IF? Right. Mushroom clouds..you remember that clear vision the World was given. So you can drink your kool aid while others drink thiers (plenty to go around). BUT THE FACTS REMAIN that Iraq did not have WMD nor the capabilities to deliver them militarily. BTW, the first time Iraq used WMD they were not very successful and it WAS KNOWN that thier current capabilities were far less than when tey used them against the Kurds.... so OBVIOUSLY, there was no real threat. Have some cookies with your juice.
Thanks Sol, I was beginning to think that because I was writing in Australian OuchMyBrain couldn't understand the point....but you have made it very clear in American.
They can deny history all they want .... make believe, what ifs, boogie men, magically disappeared, smuggled to Syria blah blah blah....fact is no WMD's were found .... now they either knew that and lied or didn't know it and lied either way you look at it they lied..... and guess what everybody knows it whether you choose to admit it to yourself or not.
Who got,
Are you that effing stupid? Can you not read or comprehend a summarization of the dumbazz answer that "hairy palms in australia" gave?
Inspectors were there for years....not just 6 months. Learn your history.
Sounds like you have been reading "pull my chain in Australia's" comments...another dumbazz argument.
I'm sure the 10,000+ DEAD kurds or the 65,000+ DEAD Iranians don't agree with you?
That's like the SWAT team leader saying, "Hey, they have a ton of guns in the house, but don't worry, they are not loaded....
You two are so effing brainwashed by your "Right Wing, Tin-Foil, Chicken Little BS conspiracy theories", it's effing rediculous.
And furthermore....Dumbazz in Ausie land....
Don't put words in my mouth you CS'r....SMFDYMFACSMF!!!!!!!
Testy Testy Testy......what's a matter team lose the Super Bowl.....or did you just come the realization that the US Government lies.....and you are one of the fools who believe them..... all the time.
Throw up all the lame excuses and name calling you want .... it's very adult of you.....but it still does not change the facts....and I wouldn't dare put anything anywhere near your rabid mouth.
More like the SWAT Team Leader (read Bush/Cheney) yelling they are fully armed and have all the ammo they need to put up a good fight....burn the house down....only to find one dead unarmed granny and her poodle with a big bark....oops.
Why waste your time leaning history when you will only have to deny it when you don't like the results 'eh OuchMyBrains.....
I love playing around with fools like you ...... but alas I gotta go to work.....catch ya!
Good let Israel attack the scum bags, save the US from doing it! Make Obama happy, another war for his contributors to make money on.
Don't worry if Israel attacks it will be the US that will foot the bill. AIPAC will make sure off that.
Israel is already supported with a great deal of money from the US.
Next step will be that the American kids will also do the dying for a war that Israel started.
Yup. Like that 25 million dollars Halliburton gave Cheney on his way to the White House. Cheney started planning the Iraq War on his second day in office.
Sorry you have the wrong people -- IT WAS Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfiwitz and the Republican gang along with Halliburton, Kellog Brown and Root, Blackwater, Ze
How could you have forgotten!!!!
Selective memory...the Democrats VOTED to go to war! C'mon people, it hasn't been that long ago. Do you really think you can get people to believe you? How about talking about the Libya war that Obama fought with borrowed Chinese money!
Without the consent of Congress, as well. Not to mention "no boots on the ground" equals 12,000 soldiers.
Everybody voted to go to war when bush LIED to all of us about the WOMD. Bush lied...hundreds of thousands of people died.
Wow, so original you OWS sweetie.
Cynical:
You're not just cynical - you're stupid as well.
OUR American boys dies for 3/4 of Europe's countries. They dies for Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan...but NEVER has Israel asked a single U.S. soldier to give his/her life.
And the country was still in shock from 9/11. Nice of you to not mention Republicans also voted. typical.
still working,
Alleluha!!!! Someone besides me does remember. Don't let the lying ba$tards be forgotten for what they did to this country!! Lying, cheatin', dirty ba$tards belong in Guantanamo themselves including Rice. Maybe a little waterboarding and the American people will find out what really was behing W and Pres Cheney duping us.
still working-4265157
There were WMD's! I am so sick of hearing that. What do you think Saddam used on the Kurds and the people in Southern Iraq? WMD's!!!! The problem was, we had to wait for the UN OK to go across the Kuwait border and he got them out. They found broken down trucks and trailers on the Main Supply Route running out of Iraq with papers and plans in them. They were there but most stuff is on a need to know basis and you don't need to know!
who cares did they use them against us? no !!! Iraq had no reason to be attacked by us- last time i checked we have WMDS
They can sit next to holder and obama/ GE/ soros and explain the dead in egypt, libya, tunsia, and syria.
nazi jews do not have the logistic to attack Iran, they want us ,america to do it for them.no this time nazi zionists.
Dave you are so wrong.. and once again you righties demonstrate you really dont know what you are talking about.. Sadam had WMDs in the form of gas but that was before and during the first gulf war.,,.after that the WMD were destroyed by Iraq at the insistence of the UN forces. At the beginnning of the Second Gulf war those weapons were 'unaccounted for' and the UN and the US had no solid evidence they were there..and the inspectors wanted to continue looking... but Bush and Cheney, eager for war..launched an attack.. after the fall of Hussein the CIA later concluded that there were no WMDS in Iran at the time of the SECOND war..
BUSH AND CHENEY WERE WRONG AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS HAVE DIED OR BEEN INJURED AS A RESULT OF EITHER THEIR INCOMPETENCE OR LIES..Does that bother you??
C-1664563
I was there! I trained the Iraqi's! I worked with them everyday and most of them came from the old Iraqi Army and I had many conversations with them. More went on than most know. Most of them wanted us there and were thankful. All we see here is the very few who act like they speak for all, just like the US. Does it bother me? I would go back to the middle east over and over again because as long as I am over there, the fight is over there, and not in my wife and kids backyard.
speaking of "selective memory", the Republicans were in full control of both houses. the dems fell for the line Bushand Co. gave them
Also, cooked evidence, Yellow Cake, Curve Ball, etc etc. *cough cough cough*
Israel needs to do what it needs to do, they have been abandoned, thanks obama. I support them. They protect the USA more than most Americans know.
Folks, the political stance of either your for us or against us is asking normal human beings to set aside their intellect, ethics, morals and humanity to ignorant peer pressure. Why is it Iran feels like they have to defend their territory? Could it be that they know we have no problem invading their sovereignty just as we have done to countless other countries. Since World War II, 90% of the casualties of war are unarmed civilians. 1/3 of them children. Our victims have done nothing to us. From Palestine to Afghanistan to Iraq to Somalia to wherever our next target may be, their murders are not collateral damage, they are the nature of modern warfare. They don't hate us because of our freedoms. They hate us because every day we are funding and committing crimes against humanity. The so-called "war on terror" is a cover for our military aggression to gain control of the resources of western Asia.
This is sending the poor of this country to kill the poor of those Muslim countries. This is trading blood for oil. This is genocide, and to most of the world, we are the terrorists. In these times, remaining silent on our responsibility to the world and its future is criminal. And in light of our complicity in the supreme crimes against humanity in Iraq and Afghanistan, and ongoing violations of the U.N. Charter in International Law, how dare any American criticize the actions of legitimate resistance to illegal occupation.
Since the Russian war in 1828, Iran has never attacked another country. We on the other hand have attacked to name a few:
Libya, Iran, Nicaragua, Haiti, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Angola, Mozambique, Honduras, Chile, Congo, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia, Angola, Columbia, Peru, Panama, Yemen, Pakistan, Grenada, Mexico, etc..
Wake up people we are being herded down the Military Industrial Complex gauntlet again to another false war to enrich the greedy Corporations and distract the American people. Did we not learn anything from the Iraq war where we have killed well over 1 million Iraqi people, lost thousands of American lives and God knows how many hundreds of billions of dollars?
Who do you support, humanity or the greedy elite?
Many of our soldiers don't fight for America, they fight for their lives and their buddies beside them, because we put them in a war zone. They're not defending our freedoms, they're laying the foundation for permanent military bases to defend the freedoms of Exxon Mobil and British Petroleum.
Face it we're Imperialists pure and simple. The elite look down on all of us as expendable chattel.
"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy" Henry Kissinger
I’m not asking you to hate war but to love peace. War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!
So long as we don't have to save Israel again, who cares of they poke Iran with a stick? Just don't sacrifice any more American blood and treasure for Israel.
Sorry Dave. There were no WMD's. If Cheney/Bush could have planted them they would have. The no fly zone and on and off inspections kept Saddam in a box and kept Iran wondering. Tens of thousands of Americans killed and maimed for what. All that useless war did was waste over one trillion dollars of money borrowed from China and make former enemy's in Iraq and Iran friends.
This isn't new news. There has been tension and conflicts in the middle east for thousands of years. Look how many times we went in to save people's butts. Please, Israel wipe Iran off the map. That would be one last place for terrorists to spawn.
There's Toasty! I was beginning to worry.
Reporters don't keep secrets. It's part of the job description, and it goes all the way back. What's more, leaks are made on purpose; there's a bigger picture here, maybe something to do with the current sanctions and threats to close off oil exports from the middle east.
As for Israel attacking Iran, they've been doing it already. They've done it before. They will do it again. As long as their sworn enemy is pursuing nuclear weapons, they will throw a spanner into the works. We would do the same. We have in the past, and we will in the future.
Israel has gotten very good at this sort of thing. They may face a huge upsurge in terrorism in response, but it beats a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv.
Ironically Erock, I was at an intel briefing for most of the evening...
Jeff S-487230, still working-4265157, C-1664563, danwill, guy-2789881,
Your Political Cronyism (Panties) is showing.
This is where all that Iraq having Weapons of Mass Destruction came from, as President Clinton's Justification for demanding that US Congress pass his H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" that later became US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom 1998 to 2011.
The Written Proof, Section 2 "Findings" of President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655:
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
And to the Newsvine Poster that said that it takes both Houses (US Senate and US House of Representatives) to Declare War, they did, House of Representatives H.R. 4655 and Senate 2002 Iraqi War Resolution, making the War With Iraq one of the few Declared US Wars since WWII.
Since all of you are so smart, who provided US Congress (both Houses) with the Intelligence (Hint: who was in control of the Congressional Intelligence Committees. another hint: was not the Repugnants. The Scrotums (Tea Baggers) did not exist yet. The In Depends (in Adult Diapers) did not have any power).
It is not the decision of the US President as to which US Laws to Enforce. By doing that (ignoring US Laws) both the Senate and the House of Representatives will both agree on a Impeachment of the US President. That is Junior High School Civics. So the US Laws: President Clinton's H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act Of 1998" JUSTIFICATION WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, Section 2 "Findings". After US Military Operation Desert Fox, 1998, H.R.4655 becomes US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom 1998 to 2011. As by US Law it takes both the US Senate and the US House of Representatives to Declare War; so to Declare War With Iraq, the US Senate passes US Law, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution.
As far as Money, It is the Job of US Congress (Congressional Appropriation Committees) to find the money for the US Laws that they created, NOT the President of the United States of America.
Proves how much you DO NOT KNOW. How about this as part of the US Military Defense Budget Cuts we shut down all the US Contractors at California and your Home State and see what happens. The reason that Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater (Xe) became sole source Contracts was because they were made up of mostly US Military Veterans that were Reduction In Forced (RIFed) during President Clinton's Cut to the Bone Reductions In Forces (RIFs) of the US Military; because they were Combat Veteran's these companies could by stating their US Military Veterans Combat Experience claim that they had the Contract Required capability to have provided support to the US Military during Combat, and you're sorry arse Demoncrap Lobbyists (for the other US Civilian (no US Military Veterans) Companies) could not meet the bare minimum contract requirements).
As far as "Intelligence", the US did not have any Intelligence Assets throughout the "Middle East", Africa, most of Asia, etc. after President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies. This Resulted in the Intelligence "Blackouts" of Entire Regions. The US then had to rely on "potentially Hostile" Nations like Jordan and Pakistan for Intelligence. The US went from millions of crediable verifiable Intelligence Assets to hundreds worldwide and in many cases none in the extremely hostile nations. This took decades to build to the height of US Intelligence Agency Capabilities under the Director of the CIA, Bush (41). President Clinton's Gutting of the CIA, as his own Executive Intelligence Agency was like sticking a sharp stick in his own eyes on the World. These are the reasons that the US was unaware before the 9/11 2001 Attacks according to the US Congressional 9/11 Committee and the US Congressional Intelligence Committee.
And since most of you do NOT know, because of President Clinton's Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the US Military, many of the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces that thru Special Reconassiance (with or without uniforms) independently verify Intelligence were gone. With those of the few of us that survived President Clinton's Cut to the Bone RIFs not capable to be all over the World at the same time (many different languages and cultures) to conduct Special Reconassiance to independentlfy verify Intelligence (or in some cases gather intelligence) and develop intelligence as "Actionable Intelligence". During President Clinton's RIFs the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces were cut by 2/3rds, with many of the RIF'ed joining the Foreign Security Contractors and some joining US Security Contractors (more joining those that you do not know about instead of high profile Blackwater (Xe)).
So sure keep spouting out nonsense that all of you do not have firsthand experience with. In less than 5 months all this sh!t is going to be YOUR problem Generation X and Generation Y. Go sign up now if you support President Obama so much as an Athletic supporter (Jock strap), if you are not "peered out", injured during training, do get thru assessments, graduate all schools (including college languages and cultures), area specific training (winter, arctic, desert, jungle, mountain, etc. warfare), etc. if you sign up now at age 18 to 20 you will barely be trained and experienced to survive by the age of 35.
Most of you believe you can just dump people into a Hostile Nation as Intelligence Assets while the Hostile Nation's Counter Intelligence is just waiting for you to do that.
What President Clinton did was destroy Decades of Work in months.
The same is true with the US Military, and this is the SAME Mistake that President Obama is currently doing with his Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the US Military of 80,000 US Military Personnel to be thrown on Unemployment PLUS the xxx,xxx US Civilians that provide support for the 80,000 US Military Personnel no longer needed and also thrown on Unemployment. This added to the 10,000 returning from US Military Installations at Germany, as stated by Secretary of Defense Penetta, they will be RIF'ed, Unemployed, not stationed at US Military Installations at the US.
I am talking about Life and Death as firsthand experience from surviving the life or death school of REAL World Hard Knocks, What the F**k are all of you talking about.
If you want to really Cut the US Military Defense Budget, get your F**ked up Congressional Representatives (and don't say it is not your Representative that is a F**K UP because it is) out of the way, and let the US Military throw the expensive overpaid US Civilians out of the US Military and on Unemployment, starting with the 1,000 on Secretary of Defense Penetta's Personal Staff. Then kick them out of the Pentagon, especially the Political Appointees and Paid Interns. Replacing all of them with below minimum wage US Military Personnel. Then let the US Military eliminate the almost one hundred million overpaid expensive US Civilians employed by the US Military. Let the US Military close all US Military Installations at the anti US Military US States (we don't want to be at your anti US Military States either).
TrustVerify,
Lame very lame. Don't tell me your arse did not benefit from the US Military Defense Industrial Complex, demand of your Congressional Representatives the Closure of All US Military Installations in your State (set the example in your State FIRST, as in your own backyard).
Let the US Military violate US Law (US Code) "US Military Must Buy Only US Products, Goods, and Services" so that we do not have to buy those $300 Hammers and expensive USAF Toilet Seats just so that almost a hundred million overpaid expensive US Civilians can get a "Fair and Living Wage" from the US Military and then the US Military can go shopping at Walmart and buy cheap Chinese.
Or these Wars for Resources, you can get your arse over here (Afghanistan) and live with like the Afghans with no resources.
Your Academic Idealistic Baloney is irrelevant in the Real World Life or Death School of Hard Knocks.
David,
I never said it wasn't true, and I never stated we should of went into Saudi Arabia.
You are making assumptions based on an Eight word sentence as well.
On a side note, It's good to see you here again, I'm glad you made it to your next location. Hope your entire team is also well.
Hi there. I've been in the "real world of hard knocks" and this other Cock Sure horse sh_it you are spewing.
:)
It only goes so far until people get a little fed up with the "Rambo Complex"
David,
Really? The 1998 "Liberation of Iraq" and transitioning to a democratic nation?
I'm pretty sure the GWOT didn't start in 1998. It sounds . . . like someone is grabbing at straws. . . and trying to sound I R TUFF!
Because "Curve Ball" and the "Yellow Cake" files, as well as Plame Gate certainly indicates that the Bush administration knew what it was doing and wasn't totally not "just making things up as they went along." Care to provide any sources for these "intelligence black outs" or is this all "classified" with your secret military decoder ring? Slam dunk and everything.
Do continue.
Last time checked, the economy seems to be improving. Hrm. But you know, current reports and articles involving what's going on with the inner workings of America. Gosh.
Summary: I R MILITARY RAAAAAGEEE YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT SHUT UP
Some advice:
Get out of the military.
Get a degree in something. Anything. Please.
And drop the "MILITARY F_CK YEAR ROID RAGE"
It also seems you didn't really read this very carefully, did you?
"War" was never officially or formally declared you numb nut.
Moped,
Like I said before, and referenced FACTS and Firsthand Experience versus your slow arse 35 MPH emotive opinions from non participants.
Next time you go into Afghanistan "Blind" just weeks after the 9/11 2001 Attacks without being able to link up with Intelligence Assets on the Ground, or later on Operation Hotel California going into Iraq blind in 2002 without any Intelligence Assets on the Ground to link up with.
Moped = ARSE HAT WITHOUT ANY REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE.
WHERE ARE YOUR REFERENCED US LAWS.
I have many degrees (almost finished my PhD) to remain competitive for US Military Officer Promotions and they do NOT stop Bullets in the Real World. I used to be a Teacher before (2nd Career) until all these f**ked up Recalls ruined that and my third career (Retail Manager).
Get a F**king Clue, Moped, as most of the US Military that are to be RIF'ed by President Obama will have advanced Degrees (CEL, Civilian Education Level) and will make all of US Civilian Generation X and Generation Y non competitive for being Employed. Because of my constantly being Recalled, I finally wised up and started my own Businesses that expanded to two States.
Most of the "Middle East Experts" in less than 5 months are and all of you Academic no Real World Experienced Idealistic 35 MPH in a above 55 MPH World people will have to deal with it, and I will be laughing my arse off everytime I am cashing my US Military Retirement Checks.
I already anticipated your name calling as to why I wrote articles:
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/03/9928679-iran-2009-to-2012-straight-of-hormuz
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/10/17/8369272-iraq
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/02/22/6107088-the-current-global-economic-crisis
To prove just how uninformed you are, Moped
David,
FURTHERMORE, the US Intelligence - both the CIA and FBI were "informed" about a potential attack on 9/11.
They were told by numerous FBI agents from various offices. One particularly in Phoenix.
The FBI sat on the information.
http:// abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131780&page=1#.TywFM-TcAW4
David,
I think I've got a pretty good clue-
You already have made up your mind about everything and are pretty sure that "no one else could possibly be right."
I don't really give any of your sources or your "background" any credit.
I'm appreciative that you served and am regretful that you sound like you're pretty bitter about everything.
I've had to strap on 90 - 180 lbs of gear myself, had to decide between interceptor or dragon armor, and had to perform as a litter bearer once or twice.
:P
But I'm not going to sit here and shut down folks simply because they -haven't- gone to war, got shot at, or seem to have an appreciation for peace.
Dav,
Oh good. You wrote your very own articles and posted it on the internet with DAVID attached to it.
Surely this is the answer to everything.
Pardon me, I'm going to look at a number of vast databases of information or a few libraries that wasn't written by one author who is obsessed with Generation X or Y and YOU DON'T UNDER STAAAAND
Almost did not make it to our current location co located with a Operational Team, they are catching on (learning from their mistakes). It is now below 7 degrees F (not including the wind chill factor) up here (Pamir Mountains).
OBE, Overcome By Events, once again don't know what you are talking about, especially about Dragon Armor, as Moped a Wanna Be playing some video game. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WE ARE EQUIPPED WITH.
LIKE I SAID BIGOT PREJUDICED JUST BECAUSE I USE THE NAME DAVID.
@ david who stated at TrustVerify's post:
What about TrustVerify's post did you NOT understand?
I'm wondering because you are very cavalier about the KILLING of civilians by the US - so people don't matter to you, I'm guessing.
Yet, your idea of keeping the US a superpower is basically keeping the heavenly (to you) Military complex up and running - raping civilians and all (Google CACI rape Iraqi boy - they are supposed to be IT support). There is a problem with your logic - the industry needs people to keep it running, more and more because it's a killing machine for "us" and "them."
TrusyVerify's post should make one think about the "horror" of war, how it rarely solves anything and what is the real price to a culture, to the children, and to the country we are bombing? It's a price that it too high. I do not want my tax dollars going into the military complex - I don't want the blood of children on my hands.
Again - what did you not get about the post that you called "lame?" Look at other countries - they are doing fine without starting "police actions" or wars every other minute. What has the US gained by our war in Iraq? More people who hate us, we killed their children, they should hate us - that's what your great complex has given the people of the US... we are looked at as a blood thirsty nation who knows no shame, who terrorizes the world and expects a pat on the back. You will not a pat from me with you "kill them all attitude."
Also, dave, when do you expect Canada or Mexico to invade us? We are too far away for anyone else and the world is in a crisis know - if you didn't notice.
I doubt that Israel will launch any attack against Iran. They are afraid that Iran, unlike Iraq, Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinians in Gaza, will actually fight back. Israelis do not have the heart to fight a war or enter a conflict where they could actually lose men and women.
If there were to be an attack, which precipitates a huge escalation and incredibly high oil prices, we all can blame Israel and it's supporters. A war like that could create huge damage to the world economies and there will be only one country to blame - Israel. We will see a steep rise in anti Israel sentiment throughout the world.
Stop all aid to Israel and above all, no more wars for Israel. They have been talking about it long enough, let them enjoy this one by themselves. America can no longer afford to bail them out.
Black Kettle & Sand Creek...lest we forget,
You and all other Newsvine Posters can keep posting Academic Idealistic NONSENSE.
As if we (those of us that survived) this long. Everything from the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars till now (Operation Cyclone, UN Mission Somalia I, UN Mission Somalia II, Operation Gothic Serpent, http://dougstanton.net/, Operation Hotel California, etc.). How about this go to the VFWs (Veterans of Foreign Wars) and after a few months to gain their trust (might take a few months) ask those missing arms, legs, etc. about what we are doing.
Next time we tell you, US Aid Workers (Doctors, Nurses, etc.), NOT to come into our Area of Operations, and you get anal raped then executed by the Taliban, sure blame us for not protecting you, as we cannot even do anything due to President Obama's Rules of Engagement as, "Cannot Shoot Until Shot"or our arses are thrown in Prisons as prosecuted by the hundreds of Lawyers sent here by President Obama's US Civilian Surge. You want the who, what, where, when, why, etc. of that (President Obama's "Cannot shoot until shot"), Who: President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke, What: Rules of Engagement, Where: Kabul as negotiated with President Karzai, When: Since President Obama's US Civilian Surge of August 2009, Why: Who the f**k knows making Afghanistan unwinable and "this Adminstration not knowing what it is doing", etc..
Black Kettle & Sand Creek...lest we forget, sure keep talking about your Idealistic Academic NO Real World Experience baloney. Next time YOU conduct the Investigation as the nearest and highest Grade US Military Officer (Rank is for Enlisted and NCOs) as the Appointed Investigating US Military Officer.
Like I said before LIFE OR DEATH, WHAT THE F**K ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.
Black Kettle & Sand Creek...lest we forget,
Oh, by the way do you think that it is a coincidence that the Mexican Drug Lords started chopping off heads and hands then hanging the corpses for the Mexican Public to see, as something they never did before.
Also:
Al Qaeda Bombers Learn from Drug Smugglers
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/28/eveningnews/main5347847.shtml?tag=pop
As far as the US Military Defense Industrial Complex as previously created by President FDR to get the US out of the Great Depression 1939 before US Entry into WWII, 1941, sure I wanted President Obama's Automatic US Military Defense Budget Cuts of one Million expensive overpaid US Civilians to occur (source US White House at http://www.whitehouse.gov/) just so that your uneducated arses would be eating rationed one can per week of Obamachow (Dog Food of undetermined sources) just so that you would shut the f**k up during the next Great Depression.
Once again the US Failed Education System that teaches NOTHING about the 1929-1939 Great Depression. Keep letting President Obama and US Congress repeat the same mistakes and expect different Results.
I REFUSE TO SPOON FEED YOU AND HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR DIAPERS LATER. GO DO THE ACTUAL RESEACH, WIKIPEDIA DOES NOT COUNT (SEE WIKIPEDIA'S GENERAL DISCLAIMER).
Hello David, I will tell you that the war mongering mentality you espouse is going the way of the Dodo bird! Old absurd men start wars and young men die in wars.
People around the world are waking up and are realizing that the Military Industrial construct doesn't and never has worked. The absurd notions you choose to believe in are just that, yours. People of a more rational, logical, ethical, moral, and loving mentality are the true wayshowers and leaders that are going to stop the insane mentality you embrace. We choose not to fight in any more wars! It's as simple as that. We the people have the power and we the people will not support the absurdity of more war.
"Those that can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
David,
Ahem.
"Interceptor" body armor the type of body armor that the United States Armed forces were issued - as was my entire outfit. Anyone from any combat arms unit that paid any attention to their gear would know that. I would imagine someone who is so deeply involved in the military would know that, too.
"Dragon Armor" was a reference to "Dragon Skin Armor" which some troops elected to purchase and use despite the U.S. military condoning it due to the fact that the small "scaled" ceramic plates did not entirely protect the wearer nor was the armor tested for extreme temperatures.
But since you have "no idea" what any of that is, one must wonder if you paid any attention to the very gear you are wearing while out on your "maneuvers" or "operations."
David,
Would you please continue to demonstrate that you probably are not a part of a combat outfit - as you clearly have no idea what gear front line infantry utilize?
I like how a super duper military veteran of a million years over seas, super duper combat gun guy, who knows every Arabic dialect and trained the President on how to do Kun Fu - who is also working on his Ph. D . . .
. . . behaves with the maturity and intellectual mannerisms of a pissed off 16 year old Republican male.
Like I said before NO CLUE, Moped, we are NOT US Military Conventional Warfare. We do not go around scaring the crap out of the locals looking like StarWars Imperial Storm Troopers.
And who does not know anything, that Dragon Scale Armor NOT Dragon Skin Armor was issued to us, and we refused that and not for the baloney wikipedia reasons that you stated.
More blah, blah, blah from a non participant. We cannot wait to get the f**k out of here, as a President Obama lost cause (all the "This Administration Does Not Know What It Is Doing").
How about this you contact President Obama and ask him why he backpeddled on his April 2009 US Military Defense Budget Cuts of one USN Aircraft Carrier Strike Group 2012; then, do the research of the USN Aircraft Carrier Strike Groups.
Hello David, I hope you will join us and realize that love not war is the answer. There will not be a war with Iran! Cooler heads will prevail. Those who are hoping for timeline two are going to be seriously disappointed. Some of your "superiors" who have your same delusional mentality already know that their looking glass project has already spelled out the outcome, ask them! There is not thing one they can do about it.
In peace and love we will move forward.
David,
It was "Dragon Skin" Armor. And I wasn't looking at Wikipedia about any of it.
You're just a jabbering bozo who wants to desperately believe he is actually important or some sort of "Spekial Forurces" commando.
And yeah - they didn't want us using the Dragon SKIN armor because deflecting rounds or shrapnel may have been able to slip between the small discs.
And if you WERE a "Spekial Forrurces" Commando - you are probably the worst "Kommado" I have ever had the distinct hysterical pleasure of meeting.
I -worked- with Special Forces in a compound at Kandahar. They were bad asses.
They were smart, quiet, and very competent men. And they did not do or say or behave at all like -YOU-
Dav,
http ://www.pinnaclear mor.com/body-armor/d ragon-skin/
I'm sorry, David. Can you read that web site? The manufactures of that armor? Can you fu_cking read what is written on this web site?
Wow. It seems to say "DRAGON SKIN" you fu_ck nut. God DAMN you are so full of @!$%#.
Dav,
I'm waiting for you declaration that manufactures web site is in fact a forgery - because YOU actually INVENTED "DRAGON SCALE ARMOR"
I'm waiting Dav. C'mon Dav. Tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about Commando Dav.
Dav,
Oh, hey David! I found the armor you refused to wear on your Special Forces Mega Sekret missions.
Did it look something like this?
onage.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Scale_Armor
Because you know, wearing Fantasy RPG armor from DRAGON AGE would be kind of silly in modern battle! I dunno, Dav.
It's a good thing you turned down that Dragon Scale Armor - it only has a +2 to Strength.
Dav,
Funny thing - the manufactures of Dragon SKIN state this on their Front Page:
Please tell us MORE about your spectacular "SEKRET MISSIONS" deep into enemy territory, David. I mean you can't even get the GEAR right. You can't even PRETEND to know what the correct GEAR is.
You are a pis.s-ant wannabe arm-chair commando who wants to talk tough but are actually mixed up little punk.
Sorry for stepping on your dick and making it crystal clear to everyone to see that you are a punk wanna-be Bit.ch, David.
I apologize for using my slow "35 mph" comments to demonstrate that you 55 MPH comments seem to be flying straight into a wall, David.
But please tell us more, David. We all want to know what you did during your special skeret missions, Dav.
I mean I know that you being a special forces operator or counter intelligence or whatever the hell you think you are would probably know his issue gear, David. Or the most ideal gear to obtain depending on their role within their team.
Please enlighten us, Dav.
During the first week of initial SF training, what is the second thing they ask SF hopefuls to do once they get in into the field, Dav?
Can you tell me what -any- SF guy is suppose to do with their radios if they're fixed to a vehicle and may become compromised, Dav? That should be an easy one!
That's what I thought, dickweed.
If you are going to get on your little computer and play Military Warrior Commando - so you can impress people with your made-up pseudo-military bullshi.t - taking advantage of those who do not know any better and misrepresenting real-life veterans - do not be surprised when the real deal punts your fuc.king little bit.ch-ass to the curb and humiliates you.
You are fuc.king scum.
wow moped, i think you may be suspended after 7 rants in a row attacking one individual.
seriously after all the sarcasm and name calling, i would be careful about calling someone immature.
although i will agree david's credentials seem a bit outlandish. If he's telling the truth then.... wow.
want peace in the middle east? tell israel that they need to start playing ball in peace negotiations, or the US will stop playing big brother to them.
By playing ball you mean they should all just surrender and march off into the ocean; don't think thats going to happen any time soon.
If I was in Irans position I would definitely build that nuclear bomb in a hurry to keep all those lunatics at bay.
Not enough land left in the middle east to take, so Israel is now looking for some new real estate?
Zaruski, Excellent and intelligent commentary! Same with Cynical! We actually have some thinkers onboard with this. Iran would be insane not to want a nuke or two with Israeli and their nukes.
Ya its not like Isreal is already taking it. Oh wait they are
The president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said "We will wipe Israel off the map"
The liberal idiot troll force is strong in this thread.
You just declared that you don't know anything. But don't give up; even blind squirrels find an acorn once in a while.
cynical, lets put your ass over there and surround you with muslims, threating to wipe your butt off the face of the earth. NOW,what are you going to do? Are you going to let them just come and tear your butt up, or are you going to try and survive? You tell me, who has killed more Americans in the name of allah? Sure as hell wasn't the Jews! Unless your on the side of the muslims, your logic makes no sense. Check out how much money we give to the muslim countries that have said over and over again, that they hate us. Yet, we give them millions and millions of dollars , every year. What the blancky, blank hell is that all about?? If anyone is trying to kill us, it's the muslim nations. So what's your problem with Israel? Hate Jews?
You cannot "deal" with a nutjob. Aukmadinnernutjob has VOWED to wipe Israel off the map. It is their national commitment. Israel has a right to defend its self. They are not going to be led to the slaughter again. Personally, the sooner the better for the end of this eternal battle brought on by organized religion.
I know...if one of each survives the battle will continue.
Nostradamus wrote that "The great earthquake shall be in the month of May." I hope this May is the one.
Wake up now Aminadnejad,couldn't wipe his ass!He's a Egotistical Loud Mouth!
Ya, the Israelis want to live in Iran. You leftist, jew haters.
We can not do that , they are our pimp, we just take the right position . Can't you see that ? Why do you think we are bankrupt ?
"JimP1969
The liberal idiot troll force is strong in this thread."
Which idiot troll force are you with?
Shame on MSNBC for "telegraphing."
still working-4265157,
He did not vow to wipe Israel off the map. He expressed a desire to wipe the "regime" of Israel "from the pages of time."
He expressed an anger towards the Israeli _government,— but did not express any direct threat to annihilate Israel. But that's okay. I wouldn't expect you to do any homework.
For the record and posterity -
Would one of your idiots please explain to me:
1. How attacking Iran would benefit the Untied States in any way?
2. How attacking Iran's nuclear facilities would "protect" Israel from a possible nuclear strike - even though Israel already knows that even if Iran -had- a nuclear weapon, it would never attack Israel because it would face Mutually Assured Destruction?
3. Provide any alternative reasons that Israel would want to attack Iranian nuclear facilities?
First off, insulting people just weakens your argument.
1. It would shift attention in the region towards Israel and away from the US (assuming we stay out the situation). As the US also wishes Iran to stop it's nuclear program, another country taking care of it for us would be mutually beneficial.
2. It would keep Iran from ever developing the nuke in the first place. As Iran is a bit unpredictable, mutually assured destruction is not a 99% safe guard against a nuclear strike.
3. It would show Iran that their defiance of international rulings is not going to go unanswered, and, hopefully, deter such reckless acts in the future.
This isn't new news. There has been tension and conflicts in the middle east for thousands of years. Look how many times we went in to save people's butts. Please, Israel wipe Iran off the map. That would be one last place for terrorists to spawn.
Zaruskie: It's easier said when YOU don't have the Hezzies outside you back door! How are you gonna negotiate peace with sworn to nothing-but-death for you because their Q'uran mandates it, move away? Ever spent months in Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, etc.? Your words wreak of inexperience on how that part of the planet works. At minimum Israel strike the Hezzies once Syria falls losing Lebanon. Try making a life under constant stray-cat rockets via the Hezzies in Lebanon. How about taking a bus knowing at any second a boomer sets him or herself off. Talk's cheap! You and many posters know only of what the bought-and-paid for media wants to tell you. Nothing like a real working experience on the subject to put as spine to an opinion. Get some of your own before making such an empty comment! Your words will mean more. Moped, I was in Israel at the time, I know how the Israeli people took it. After all, my wife is Palestinian from Gaza. I'm a yankee who's got mucho time in them parts. Both sides of the issue, both sides of the line. You weren't. Got a unique inside view you will never have! Israel could care less of what America wants when it comes to dealing with a threat from down the street! They know that no American Politico will take the hit for them, ever! At this time they have the perfect leadership to act. Netanyahu comes from the Menahem-Golda school of hard-knocks. While Assad is losing Syria, Iran has no acting friend on the East Med. Assad loses Syria, he loses Lebanon-the Heart of Hezbollah. Iran loses Lebanon too. Israel now has a greater foothold in which to strike Iran. I believe she will as do the rest of the world. Israel has never been better poised to strike than these times. Israel will also be sending a message to others playing the same tune. She had better because Israel took what Ass-man-needs-a-jab as nothing but a direct threat. Again, you weren't there when he spoke on the behalf of the Grey Beards in Terhran. Rember, the Ayatollahs are the guys Ass-man-needs-a-jab speaks for. The Grey Beards ARE the Presidents of Iran. The Grey Beards decide how the Q'uran is to be practiced world-wide both Sunni and Shia alike. They represent the ultimate in dying for the cause. They have no problen living in misery, never have. A total assured destruction is what they live for! Martyr one's self is EVERYTHING, baddad is secondary. A seat beside Allah is the prize for Martyrs.They've got an unlimited line of folks willing to do the dance. What nation can afford not to act upon a threat from such an army? Israel will not, can not!
cynical said:
RP said:
You two DO realize that Iran has the largest Jewish population aside from Israel in the entire middle east, right?
Have you ever lived at the "Middle East", Africa, Asia for years (not just visiting for a few days, weeks or months).
How about this YOU go learn Farsi, like I did a long time ago to become "Middle East" Qualified. And back then at US Ally Egypt learn Arabic at an Egyptian College, then later learning Islam (only taught in Arabic) at an Egyptian College while living with Egyptian Families. And having to go to the Mandatory School Ciricuulum or be expelled, of Hitler's Mein Kampf taught as a Success Story (sabotaged by the Jews) and the Blame the Jews for everything, "Protocols of the Wise Elders of Zion" as a means to keep the hatred of the Jews going for future Generations as established by Amin Al Husseini, Nassar and Amin Al Husseini's Arab League of Nations throughout the Islamic World.
As something that depicts what life is like (to this day) at FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAMIC Iran, how about watching this:
1991 Movie, Not Without My Daughter, based on REAL Life: US Citizen Betty Mahmoody, her daughter and her husband in Iran.
You honestly believe that the Fundamentalist Islamic Iranians are not keeping a very close eye on the Jews at Fundamentalist Islamic Iran.
cruddola,
You are attempting to tell the 92% of US Citizens that have Never Served in the US Military, or never lived in an Islamic Nation (for years), to actually potentially get killed or their academic idealistic no real world experience nor knowledge arses to get beaten up as a minimum. Most of these academic idealists do not even realize why I have used an Arabic name for decades instead of Christian name of david-475776, it is just like we tell the News Reporters, especially the US women, COVER YOUR F**KING HAIR with NONE showing or you will be beaten and raped as punishment as per current Islamic Laws, "Every hair showing is a dagger into the eyes of Allah", so what happens, Laura Logan doesn't, so someone (risking their lives by being outed) covertly tells the Egyptian women nearby and the Egyptian Military to save her stup!d arse. (I did the same thing for Barry Sorento when the Christians at the Christian School at Indonesia were whooping on his arse for knowing the Islamic Prayers before being confirmed at the local Mosque as an Islamic Believer, told some of the school administrators then quickly disappeared, I was young back then as still a trainee learning US Military Special Reconnaissance and Surveillance and did not know just how much I would have compromised myself and the US Embassy Mission).
Most of these Newsvine Posters do not realize that the Ayatollahs of Iran use the President of Iran as a arse puppet (they have their arms so far up his arse that they make his mouth move).
They also believe that the President of Iran visited all those South American Nations for Trade Deals and not the deployment of Iranian IRBMs and the continued Iranian supplies of weapons, munitions, funds, etc. to the Hamas Foreign Fighters, Hezbollah, etc. at South America, that are in turn supplying tons (not the ones or twos of Fast and Furious) of weapons to the Mexican Drug Lords (Cartels) as the AKs, AKMs, etc. as the preferred (more reliable) weapons of the Mexican Drug Lords (Cartels). As most US Citizens do not realize the fact that the Mexican Government has the Manufacturing Licenses to manufacturer M-16s, M-4s, etc. at Mexico to supply the Mexican Military; and still the Mexican Drug Cartels demand the more reliable AKs, AKMs, SVDs, RPGs, etc..
This article makes the mistake of believing that the Israelis can actually attack the hardened (under the Iranian Mountains, like US NORAD or the former USSR Ural Mountain Complex) Iranian Nuclear Facilities, as the US has already stated that we cannot with our current weapons systems ("Bunker Busters"). The US previously had this capability long ago as the Pershing II "Earth Penetrator" Warheads of the INF to kill the USSR Ural Mountain Complex and USSR Forward Underground C4I locations, and do not say that we did not have them and the "Enhanced Radiation Nuclear Weapons" as I had to go all over Europe to conduct a SEV (Stockpile Emergency Verification, a miscount means your arse is Court Martialled). These US Capabilities were completely destroyed including the manufacturing techniques and previous designs under the INF (Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces) Treaty (verified by the then USSR). And before the naysayers of Newsvine start with your uninformed emotive opinions I know firsthand from experience as I used to teach this sh!t (Nuclear Weapons CNWDI (all Branches and all other Nations (potential threats)), Delivery Systems (All Nation's Missiles, Artillery, Man Portable), etc. as well as later on being assigned to the INF before becoming "Middle East" Qualified.
Blah blah blah I ARE MILITARY and WENT TO SCHOOLS OVER THERE
All you academics, with your books and your articles and your readings know NOTHINGSss!@11!!
Only I, the bitter Know-Everything (without actually providing any verification or anything than can be readily confirmed because I am posting anonymously on the internet tee hee) know everything!
Everyone else should just Shut UP! >:( >:( >:(
Also, pay no attention to any of the horrible crap I coincidentally neglected to mention the last several decades worth of covert and clandestine operations to sabotage, usurp, and effectively ruin the economies or governments of the middle east!
>:( Cause I, David, Said So.
Rarrrh!
Which leans nothing to theory about countries or civilizations eventually having a tendency to lean towards democracy or a liberal life style provided they have a strong economy, stable government, and are not untrustworthy of hostile Early Developers that took it upon themselves to "educate" and "colonize" the uncivilized "savages" of the world.
Whoops.
Moped,
Cite your references to dispute the Facts.
Yeah, sure get your own arse killed. What's the matter ALL BIG MOUTH AND NO ACTION.
David,
htt p://web.payk.net/ politics/cia-docs/published/one-main/ main.html
This document explicitly details that of "Operation Ajax" - in which Western Force deliberately sabotaged and outed the popularly elected Iranian Mohammad Mosaddegh in 1953.
It is one of many covert operations undertaken to sabotage Middle Eastern States.
But, gosh, you working on your Doctorate and everything of course new about this.
If you want, I can start thumbing through my various other books on our "wonder" meddling on foreign lands.
Dave, seems to me that your time was spent teaching the button-pushers at Nuke School. I, on the other hand spent my time living among the folks who pull triggers and will be doing the fighting. Got over a handful of years as a Corpsman, 2/9 Marines doing the real thing, played with the Quds too. Have you? I did not push buttons! Value life more than ANY button pusher. Let's agree that I served an apprenticeship. Opposite ends of the spectrum,no? Actually, the YACS are sitting the best in Mexico. Bet you can't tell where the quietest area is along the US-Mexighanistan border is. WRONG! It's Agua Prieta across the boneyard from Douglas, AZ. There's two colonias of Beach Boys (Brighton, NY) happening there. This is my backyard now. If it's bad guys, I know about them more than most! No uninformed emotive opinions here, dude. Keep pushing buttons, I'll hang with the real folks caught in the middle.I'll give you the last word!
It's happening. And there's nothing we can do about it.
Some of us fought the good fight.
God bless the soldiers. God help us all.
Relax, nothing is happening. This is all propoganda.
I fail to see reason for concern. If Israel wants to blow up their nuke facilities, good on em, have it it. I see no reason for the US to get involved, aside from some verbal support for our ally.
This isn't new news. There has been tension and conflicts in the middle east for thousands of years. Look how many times we went in to save people's butts. Please, Israel wipe Iran off the map. That would be one last place for terrorists to spawn.
This isn't new news. There has been tension and conflicts in the middle east for thousands of years. Look how many times we went in to save people's butts. Please, Israel wipe Iran off the map. That would be one last place for terrorists to spawn.
Hey..ya never know..elimination of both of those countries might help the world!
Ha....Israel bombing a terrorist location to stop them from spawning. That there "terrorist" label is thrown about much too easy these days. Too bad most of the countries with nuclear capabilities are also terrorists, the US AND Israel included.
Israel is a bastard child spawned by inbreeding in the U$.
I hope you don't live in the US if you think it's a terrorist country. That would make you a terrorist, no?
Good then how about putting your arse on the line, go sign up now if you believe that; so that it will be your "skin in the game" (potential for getting killed). If you believe that so much. Thought so, all mouth and no action.
Don't give everyone lame excuses for not signing up now.
President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (plural), "Anyone stating a radical change to (US) Government is a Homegrown Domestic Terrorist", "Indefinite Detentions", "Material Support to Terrorist Organizations" (including "Expert" Support of Legal Representation (denial of due process of US Law) as currently being fought in US Courts by ACLU and Humanitarian Assistance Organizations), Monitoring and Censorship of all US Communications (especially the Internet), etc.
Way to go, skeeter-339704, future candidate for President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts of "Indefinite Detentions", "Black Ghost Ships", "Catch and Release" with "extraordinary interrogations" with "extreme prejudice", Homeland Security's Blacklists, TSA's SSS, without Warrant requirement for ISPs to provide physical locations of their customers, etc.. This is not the movies where it takes seconds for the NSA to determine your physical location, try nanoseconds (not including President Obama's expansion of US Cyberwarfare Capabilities).
Half a point brokinarrow.
Some of the people speakout against our foreign policy, or lack of a constistant one. It is when the citizens do not challenge their government's thought process, that the country as a whole becomes one, be it right or wrong.
I did not see your post as I was writing david475776. The tide turns very quickly, and those that feel free can be pulled into a vast ocean of misunderstandings by others.
That is the point of discussion in a free society...freedom vs. control. Please watch and see what we are losing thru government laws and implied meanings.
skeeter-339704,
You already LOST your "Rights" under President Obama's January 21, 2009, Patriot Acts (Plural) that extended President Bush's Patriot Act (Singular) and made Legal all those things considered Illegal under President Bush's Patriot Act.
Then there is the Revised Insurrection Act, that makes it necessary for us (US Military) if assigned to US NORTHCOM to use Deadly Force Against US Civilians if Ordered by US Presidential Executive Order or we face Summary Executions and our Families, Relatives, etc. used as Leverage known that after we are Summarily Executed with "Indefinite Detentions", Extreme Interrogations, Blacklists (no Work), SSS "No Travel", etc. as possible "Co conspirators to our Treason" (our not obeying a Presidential Executive Order).
LOL. You ASSUME (make arse out of yourself) believing that I am a Jew based on name. Can you say bigot, prejudice, etc. on your part.
david475776. Yup. I'm on many lists, just as you are unfortunately, despite serving your country.
And WTF, where did that last bit if your post come from? You are david475776 aren't you? At least that is what's showing up on my screen. What do you mean, seriously?
I already know:
Then Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, "Anyone returning from the Wars are potential Homegrown Domestic Terrorists" (guility until proven innocent). There are some of us that are already considering in the next less than 5 months as a "European Out" accepting offered German, French, etc. Earned Citizenship (after being attached to their Asymmetric Warfare Forces and almost getting killed).
Ok, that should have been directed at Moped with it's Anti Jew Everything regardless of if I am a Jew or not, just because someone has a online name like mine, david-475776, eventhough for all "she he it" = Sh!t, knows I might be an Iranian Ex Patriot, etc..
david.
Peace my brother, and to all the military who have obeyed orders during their time in service. I can't imagine serving your country, especially overseas, and hearing about the laws and freedoms being taken away on it's citizens back home.
Deep in the back of your mind and in the pit of your stomach, you probably fear that you may be asked to "enforce" those laws upon the citizens of your own country, who you thought you were protecting 'overthere". You are all in my thoughts, always have been, and always will be. Thak you all.
Panetta is FULL OF CRAP!Israel is not THAT STUPID TO TRY SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
The Israelies would like to hang around on the FACE OF THE EARTH FOR AWHILE.
Panetta should just Shut the Hell Up!He's an instigator and a trouble maker!
gloria fabiaschi
I beg to differ. remember when Israel bombed Iraq for possibly developing weapons?
Don't think for one second that they wont go after Iran if they feel they will be threatened with a nuke in the future.
Gloria , Mr. Panetta has knocked off more terrorist in the last 10 months , than anyone else in the last 10 ears. Maybe you should shut the hell up!
Listen up go after Iran for nukes!Listen to yourself.
All Talk,All Big Mouth,and No Action!Meaning neither of these countries,would not be STUPID ENOUGH TO OBLITERATE EACH OTHER OFF THE FACE OF THIS PLANET!
Both these countries would like to hang around for awhile!Both have nuclear weapons!
It makes no difference which country it is.If one would attack the other knows they'd be nuked.Guess what?NOBODY WINS.SAY GOOD BYE TO BOTH COUNTRIES!
I forgot to mention if nuclear weapons are involved you'll get other countries with Nukes involved,in sympathy with either country.Then they can obliterate the whole world!
THINK ABOUT IT!
aderose and you actually believe all that Propaganda Crap spoon fed to you? Don't get a Belly Ache Wow!
Oh and no I won't Shut the Hell Up!
You forget, Gloria...terrorists are not playing with the same deck as we are. To them it is the will of their god and their priests to die in a glorious killing of the "chosen enemy" to them, their god, or their priests.
They do not fear dying as then they get the hundred virgins and lots of food, wine etc. They do not care if they get killed as long as they take out the latest enemy.
Sure, that uber warrior leon pinata. Whoo, I'm scared.
Meh maybe you should brush up on military power of the involved countries. Israel has what is arguably the third best air force in the world. If you think they are afraid of Iran then you are a fool. Israel could wipe Iran off the face of the planet in a couple weeks. Not to mention they are sitting on a few US nukes which you can bet your bottom dollar are all aimed at Iranian targets. If Iran was to really dig in and fight back hard, Israel would not hesitate a second to use them. Just because they are a small province doesn't make them weak. It is the main reason Iran has not outright attacked them yet....they are afraid.
Gloria, I've thought about it. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid and take off your tin hat.
Oh Realist the old Kool-Aid and tin foil hat routine! How Cute!
Um Paul No It Can't! Iran has a few tricks up her sleeve Okay.As Isaid it'd be all out Chaos.No winners in this Game!
Gloria, it's a tried and true statement and much better than the manure you're spouting, typing, and posting.
Manure? Really and what kind of manure would that be?
Typing posting whatever!Manure my ant Fannie's underwear!It's the Truth!
Ms fabiaschi:
If you look at what the world has been through the last fifteen years it should not be too surprising that Israel and Iran go at it. What is inconceivable to you is quite conceivable to people who do not think like you. If you haven't actually noticed, the world events have been such that it seems it is spinning almost out of control. What I do not understand is what you are thinking; why would they NOT go at it? Because you think it is a total end game? It is is quite possible for it not to be an end game.
This isn't new news. There has been tension and conflicts in the middle east for thousands of years. Look how many times we went in to save people's butts. Please, Israel wipe Iran off the map. That would be one last place for terrorists to spawn.
Sarcasticus I know what the world has been in the last 15 yrs.Insane!However in a case like Iran and Israel,the Israelies built they're country from the ashes of World War 2.Many Jews were wiped out, almost to the point of oblivion!
Now they built a powerful country,even though it is small, they are not so insane as to go and attack a coiuntry like Iran, and risk the possibility of Them being wiped out.Israel is not that Stupid.They are not that stupid of risking everything in order to be blown back into obilivion!
Once you start with nuclear weapons,IT'S OVER FOR BOTH SIDES! THAT'S MY THINKING!
Yes indeed Panetta shoud stop playing the warmonger and should shut his trap,besides let Israelies deside what and when they like to knock these nuclear sides out if they have too, they are well trained to do this no question about it. That Panetta is a dom ass to tell the whole world what might happen in the near future,I for one can't believe a guy in his position send this message out for every one to know.
Gloria. your barking up the wrong tree, Israel is the only local nuke ready country there. (This has never been verified by the Israeli gov.) They have the warheads and the means to deliver them. They will attack before Iran has a usable warhead. They have said so many times. They do not need our help. Israel won the six day war by itself against almost all the Middle East Nations and would do so again if need be. Doing nothing would stupid for Israel while they such a commanding hand, why would they let their opponents catch up? They will not use nukes because they do not need to, the war is winnable in a few short days using the same methods as the last several wars. As for people who express dismay over Panetta's info, are you kidding me? This is and has been common knowledge since the revolution in Iran, it's just a matter of when, not if.
You Israeli mouthpieces here are thugs. You don't care about anyone's life but your own, and have no problem showing it. It is all about power, money, and force with you. That is why you are all loved so much.
Does not mean anything, as past information. Read this:
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/03/9928679-iran-2009-to-2012-straight-of-hormuz
Like I said before in less than 5 months NOT my problem any more, as most of us (US Military Survivors since our involvements with the "Middle East" since the 1980s) will finally get to go back on US Military Retirement again, NEVER to be Recalled to Active Duty Again as "Too Old". This will all be on Generation X and Y to Fix, Deal with it Muther F**kers, LOL, that's right YOUR Lives not ours, and NOT "We" but YOUR.
What Gloria is forgetting when posting Israel wouldn't attack for fear of being wiped off the map by Iran is that they feel their backs are against the wall, they are already fearing being wiped off the face of the earth. They feel they have only one option. Their entire nations survivial dpends on keeping anti-semitic muslim countries from acquiring nuclear weapons. The one statement she did make that I totally agree with is the fact that this may broaden into a much larger regional conflict, possibly even the start of a third world war.
I like how a super duper military veteran of a million years over seas, super duper combat gun guy, who knows every Arabic dialect and trained the President on how to do Kun Fu - who is also working on his Ph. D . . .
. . . behaves with the maturity and intellectual mannerisms of a pissed off 16 year old Republican male.
We, the public, are being fed this information so we will be prepraed for, and more likely to accept an attack, and so we will believe the U.S. govt did not okay it and had nothing to do with it. BUT IT IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. It is likely stoke tensions and terrorism for years to come.
So let's just step back and let it happen, making it clear that the US did not participate in any way. And in the meantime, Israel will proceed to wipe Iran's nuke program off the face of the map. Seems like a win-win for the US...
I agree. Get em Israel. This isn't new news. There has been tension and conflicts in the middle east for thousands of years. Look how many times we went in to save people's butts. Please, Israel wipe Iran off the map. That would be one last place for terrorists to spawn.
Hopefully Brokinarrow and laurel's children/grandchildren will get wiped off the face of the map as the first US troops sent in after the Jews get overrun by suicide bombers.
jabberwockyed - Thank you for resorting to insults instead of using any reason or logic whatsoever.
Brokinarrow,
I like the cut of your jib, sir.
Heh
Here we go.
AIPAC and Israel start a war and the American kids are the ones that will come home in body bags for a war they did not start (this time)
Who the h*ll is in control of the tail that keeps wagging the dog all the time?
Magic!
Even if Israel does go through with the action, I can't see us getting involved. If the President ordered in troops, congress (all of congress, not just republicans) and the majority of US citizens would be crying for his impeachment. If a vote was properly put to congress, there's no way it would pass, as another war is the LAST thing anyone here wants right now.
This isn't new news. There has been tension and conflicts in the middle east for thousands of years. Look how many times we went in to save people's butts. Please, Israel wipe Iran off the map. That would be one last place for terrorists to spawn.
Brokinarrow sounds just like Rumsfeld when he fired the General for saying we needed more troops in Iraq to secure the ammo dumps. He sais "I can't forsee us needing that many troops" in his effort to sell the war. Then the Iraqi's raided the un-guarded ammo dumps and killed thousands of our troops. Rumsfeld is still alive and profiting from the war. Brokinarrow is just a smuck, hopefully his family will cash the check that his mouth is writing.
Dustin Hoffman, lol.
jabberwockyedy - Really not sure what you have against me, but ok - First off, we don't have troops in Israel or Iran. Why exactly do you think the US would get involved in another war when we are still broke from the last two? Someone else can pick up the check this time, we need a break from being the world police. Now please, quit insulting my family and future children. If you have a legitimate argument to bring up, do so and leave the insults out of it.
When you supply a country with all their offensive weaponry and trillions of dollars over years you are involved in any war they start. You just aren't smart enough to realize that. If you think Isreal bombs Iran and there will not be an overwhelming response with US troops needed to help the big nosed bagel eaters you are like I said, a lot like donald rumsfeld. I'm not insulting your family, I'm just saying its about time the warmongers families are first in line for the wars. That goes for your elected officials also.
Well, I for one did my four years in the Marines Corps and I'd have no issue serving my country again in a time of crisis. How many years have YOU served? And how exactly am I a warmonger when I'm sitting here saying that we need to stay out of it if it happens? Your logic falls flat.
Isn't a military strike against a country that is not threatening you a crime against humanity?
No it's a Crock of Sh it!
Amahammerhead says Israel should be wiped off the map. Sounds like a threat to me. Cheney/Bush attacked Iraq for a lot less.
Yea and how many dead and maimed did the magic mombo twins give our soldiers and innocent Iraqis?
All you people who want this need to GO AND DO IT YOURSELVES __SEND YOUR OWN CHILDREN.
This is just the Israelis saber rattling...
Point of fact - Iran has already threatened Israel numerous times. That doesn't make an attack a good idea, but there it is.
Yes George but Iran has threatened us and Israel for years. They are a ticking Time bomb.
What does that have to do with Iran-Israel? Don't you recall Iranian president Mahmoud I'm-a-nut-job saying Israel should be "...wiped off the map.?" And let's see...I suppose Iran's development of nuclear weapons isn't any kind of mortal threat to Isreal, eh?
The leader of Iran said Israel should be wiped off the face of the world! Sounds like a pretty good threat to me. I suppose you want them to wait for a atom bomb to be dropped on them before they do anything!! You are totally bonkers!!
Let's see....Iran says they want to wipe Israel off the map. Israel says, we're going to bomb the @!$%# out of you! Who's threatening who? Sounds like some schoolyard bull@!$%# to me, but these fools are playing with people lives in their little dick-measuring contest. I say let 'em fight it out and let the chips fall where they may.
George -- Yes and they're in good company -- the USA has trashed two countries (Iraq and Afghanistan) that didn't attack us and is well on its way to wrecking a third (Pakistan, which is our "ally")
Doc....If words of threats were nuclear weapons we all would be dead already. LOL
What is even more amazing is the comments not favoring war with Iran or our going to help if such a stupid thing should happen.
Well, I suppose 10 plus years of war does that to a nation. It seems we are alllll war weary... and broke. Hmmm
Peace...... such a beautiful thing to waste...
Ask bush...he did it and got away with it.
Did anyone read the actual article? It says that the "wiped off the map comment" was mistranslated. So why repeat a lie?
No, it stated and I quote,
" (which some Iranians claim privately was a mistranslation) "
Reading comprehension problem I suspect.
guy-2789881
The Iranian Prime Minister, at no point, indicated he wanted to wipe the country of Israel of the face of the map.
An often mistranslated comment he made expressed a desire to wipe the Israeli REGIME from the "pages of time."
Do some f_cking home before you spout idiotic nonsense. This is how stupid pointless wars start and innocent brave kids die. Because of the incompetence of the likes of you.
I think you may be forgetting Iran sign the Non-proliferation treaty. That is the fine print being used to justify military action. Israel never signed the treaty, but has been continuously threaten by Iran so Israelis consider the attack as self defense. How do you justify a war. Let me count the ways. Once the war starts the reasons for it starting sort of lose their significance and the thing of relevance is who wins and who loses. In a conflict between Iran and Israel the winners and losers may not be so easy to discern once the dust settles.
My main concern is that American legislators, Senators and Representatives of both parties, tend to give more consideration to the whims and wishes of of Israel and the American Jewish community that lobbies Congress for Israel, than they do for the Average American. Talking politics here, not religion. That little speck of earth in the Middle East called Israel really doesn't deserve the reverence and unquestioned support most of our politicians squander on them. It has never been reciprocated and in most cases Israel just considers the U.S. a means to an end. The U.S. is a useful tool. We have our wagon hitched up to theirs so we're along for the ride whatever happens. They call the shots and we get shot in the a-s. Their influence on our foreign policy is totally out of proportion to their value to American national interests and strategic policy. As to Israel's handling of the Palestinian situation Israel is actually a detriment to our national interests and regional stability in the Middle East.
You have to be very naive to think this information is leaking out by accident. This is a very calculated release of information. Be prepared for $10.00 a gallon gas. And 10 more years of some kind of military conflict.
Right on.
Yep attacking a nation that is not at war with you is a War Crime. But then, how many War crimes has Israel committed? Too many to count. Killing Innocent Civilians in Norway, Blowing up a Boat in New Zealand, Kidnapping a British Citizen in Italy. Attacking the USS Liberty in international Waters in the Med Sea. Israel is a very evil nation. They need to be booted from every organization on the planet. We Boycotted and sealed up South Africa and now Israel is doing exactly what South Africa did, why are they still allowed in the Olympics, UN etc? Its time to boot Israel from every organization on the Planet.
And thats my opinion
MOPED: You need to do your homework also, its true the PMs speech by definition was not to wipe Israel OFF the Map, because in their OWN dialect would require (by exact definition) to remove the land map off the face of the earth because it is NOT a saying in their country. Translated directly from Persian to English is the true statement from Ahmadinejad. He said that the ""the Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must be eliminated from the pages of time." QUOTE from University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History. Still doesn't sound like a warm neighborly reception does it?
nativearizonan. Nicely spelled out.
So it is OK for Israel to blow Iran off the face of the earth, but Iran can't wish the same for Israel?
Using nuclear ambitions as meaning nuclear weapons is wrong. But someone who is used to getting what they want all thetime will probably be allowed to do whatever they want again and again, as the adoptive "parents" look on approvingly.
Israel is our best ally in the middle east (in fact our only true ally) and here we have the Secretary of Defense going public with information on the likely hood that Israel will soon, within months, attack Iran and take out its nuclear facilities.
Was this just another stupid mistake by this administration or was it to alert others of what Israel is about to do thereby hoping the Israelis will stand down.
Just guessing, but I would say stupid mistake.
We are giving them no choice. We are refusing to rein these rogues in - who else is going to.
More likely it's to make Iran stop and think. They know the US most likely would not attack. But the Israelis are considered a loose cannon. If Iran thinks Isreal might attack then they might stop and think and possibility start negotiating. At least I'm thinking that's why this was put out there.
Make no mistake, this was made public for a reason.
dsb, it certainly is not going to get Iran to think. What people need to understand is that the hardline Iranians, and certainly it is a small percentage, believe that the Koran calls for the destruction of Israel. They also believe that a great nation will come to Israel's aid. They believe this is the United States. When this happens, Mohammed comes back to earth. These people would do almost anything for this to happen.
I think it's calculated...to get Israel to hold back. An attack by them on Iran could lead to WW-III.
Sfcret, it probably wasn't to try and make Israel back down. It was to warn obamas muslim friends. Obama hates Israel, and has made that very clear. He will undermine them any chance he gets.
...and what exactly are the benefits to us of that alliance?
Stu-2632430 no it would not. It would make arab countries to choose their future. It would split the muslim community. The tribes would have to take one side or the other, it will clear up a lot of positions that Saudi Abrabi, Turkey, Egypt, and etc have not made in the past.
Israel is not our ally. Israel is a colony of the USA. We don't need anything from Israel all we do is to pay their bills. Israelis has oil by any chance? What kind of Nation is Isarel that to exist depend of another country? The only reason Israel is our ally is for us to give them bilions of dollars that certainly will return in form of legalized corruption. Tthat's why this vicious defense of Israel from those beneficiares. That's is shame. It's about time Israel to become a normal country not a nightmare. That's shameful
I can remember when the Israelis would do the USA's dirty work, so we could look so clean. Nilo-NYC look back in the 70's through 90's, when the USA had a non assassination law. Who you think did the jobs, tinker bell.
It wasn't a mistake you moron.
A government leaks information when it wants to and for a purpose.
It is pretty clear that the Obama Administration doesn't want a war, -- otherwise they would be right on the bandwagon, hooting an hollering with their popguns like a bunch of idiots from the previous US Presidency.
Panetta is indirectly deliberately undermining the Israeli government and sending them a message:
Just giving the American people the "transparency in government" they've been screaming for.
Aye maybe if we do support Israel in a war with Iran it'd give us an excuse to get out of Afghan, finish off Iran, and get out of war completely? Juss kicking it around lol..
The only support I would be ok with is in the form of military supplies in exchange for cash on Israel's part.
M.Cooper, If this 'war' goes forward it would result in WW3. Not all of the European and Asian countries would be on board to go forward with it, nor would they send any help/assistance- financial, material or boots on the ground etc- from the look and sound of various murmurings in those areas.
One thing though we would certainly find out who our frienimies are, wouldn't we? LOL
Just as things are quietening down, there is this conflict rattling. Why start a new round of negative activity toward us or create more folks to hate and dispise US(A)?
When is enough is enough?
After 10 years and counting of war, death, suffering, destruction of our own infrastructure, debt for generations to come, broken bodies, minds and spirit of our young people and families, where now we cannot afford to continue unemployment insurance benefits for those who need it, nor to families who need public assistance etc, nor to pay teachers, police officers and other first responders, and take care of our own national debt etc and the list goes on.... and there are folks HERE pushing for another war?
Peace.... try it.
Way to go Leon. In 2 days you've tipped off the taliban and the Iranis.
Iran is determined to destroy itself and thats just fine with the rest of the world. R.I.P. Mullahs
Wait...Isreal is actually going to fight their own battle for once? Instead of coming to us with their @!$%#ing tail between their legs asking us for help?
When has the US fought Israels wars?
We're doing it right now.
When has Israel ever asked the U.S. for even one soldier to help them? Financial assistance, yes (like almost all the rest of the world, including Arab nations), but never manpower. Why would you expect them to ask for our military help now? They have always fought their own battles.
Israel always fights its own battles. It has never asked US soldiers to fight for it, and they never have (unlike US soldiers fighting and dying for many other countries, including Arab countries). Where do you get off making blatantly false statements like that?
Mary Jones -- where are we doing it now? Another liar.
Mary...We are fighting the Cheney/Halliburton/Bush war at the moment. This war has killed and maimed tens of thousands of our best young people.
Twinbros - I am no fan of Israeli aggression, but claiming they are cowards is nonsense -- they have proven their bravery over and over again.
In actual fact, not only has Israel fought its own wars in the past (with the exception of the first one, in which the Brits were also involved), but if this particular scenario actually comes to pass, they will be fighting our wars, as well.
We should be grateful. Not only will they bear the brunt of any Iranian response, thereby precluding the spilling of American blood...but they'll probably do a hell of a lot better than we would.
The soldiers of the IDF are all at pretty much the same level as the SEAL team that killed OBL...and there are a lot more of them.
Twinbros you must be really young. I am in my late thirties and I can remember when the Israelis would do the USA's dirty work, so we could look so clean. That is why most of the world links Israel and USA together.
Obama has killed 5000 in syria, 100,000 in libya in his
GE/ Soros backed wars.
Now doesn't that sound stupid?
Guy, see how stupid you sound.
Gaddafi was killing his own people. Stating that people died in a war zone while Obama was the president and attributing those deaths directly to Obama is a bit of a stretch.
Obama did not send any ground troops into Libya.
Obama is not occupying Libya nor did he start constructing massive "embassies" in Libya.
Essentially, Obama demonstrated that multilateral collective security can work when an insane dictator starts blowing away his own civilians.
Isreal is not our "best ally" in the ME. We are Isreal's ONLY ally in the ME. Please make that correction in your thinking. Our only purported ally in the ME is Saudia Arabia who sells us oil below market prices and in violation of OPEC rules. However, they also are the largest disseminators of the Koran--the conservative version--and one of the biggest violators of womans rights in the world...forget the Taliban. Of course we don't hear anything about it because "they reinvest their money (our oil dollars) back here in USA by way of the banks owned by our Jewish friends and a few of the Bush family's. Isreal will soon run out of space and will have to take over Lebanon and Syria. And of course when this is done our Evangelical neighbors will feel now they have to convert those "bad Jews" to Christianity to save their souls while we bury our dead sons and daughters and pick up the tab (taxes) that the latter avoids due to their not-for-profit tax status all the while preaching "Jesus loves you, now go vote for Bush, Cheney, and Haliburton. And to correct some of the misunderstanding from articles above...Iran is not Arabs. They are Persians. And the only Arabs designed by Bush's new world order to survive will be the UAE and the Sauds. Which by the way pissed Osama off!
Moped
Our less than beloved White House bumbler is about to kill thousands, if not millions, of Americans with his literally fatally flawed "Obamacare." In order to help pay for his ill conceived health care plan, President Obama is removing $500 billion from Medicare via a 20% cut in reimbursements to doctors. Facing this economic shortfall, doctors will simply refuse care to medicare recipients and turn them away as patients. Bottom line--- no health care and you die. Even if you get lucky, once you are over 70, you can be denied life preserving surgery by his newly formed "death panels" who will find that extending your life is just not good economics. We have all of this to look forward to starting in 2014.
My fellow Americans we can fight back and arm ourselves with ballots, not bullets, and shoot down this clown down this November. Anybody but Obama in 2012!
The assessment of the two wars of Iraq and Afghanistan is each war lasted about one decade, each war has costed billions dollars (U.S.A. taxpayers' money), each war has thousands of U.S.A. casualties, at least, each war has thousands of permanently wounded, each war has displaced million people, each war has costed the serious infrastructure damage, each war has collapsed the economy... and it collapses our Uncle Sam who has to raise the debt limit to cover the expanse to which when those return from the wars, it will take time for them to adjust, to heal, e.g. PTSD, and to adapt back to the society.
If Israel goes to war, they can buy our weapons or techie support. Hope that there will be no ground troop from U.S.A. If U.S.A. join them, this time please do declare war and pass through the Congress.
Iran does have its own allies.
About their only allies are Syria and Hezbollah.
we will not fight for nazi israel.no agaain
Nazi Israel...brilliant you twit
Who cares? Let Israel do what it wants to do. I'm sick and tired of all the War mongering. We CANT afford any more war. We have CHILDREN STARVING IN OUR OWN COUNTRY.
WAKE UP AMERICA.
This
We should care what Israel does, because it will inevitably cause repercussions for us. If they strike Iran there is a chance that we will get pulled into the conflict.
Is that you, Ron? Or were you imitating FDR?
as long they nazi israel do not use our money and slodiers
If we have children starving in this country it's because the parents aren't responsible, or to dumb to sign up for welfare.
Joe, you're still a twit
lol the "$200 or pick a number" comment made me laugh.
Could you imagine the price of gas and diesel...we would be in trouble in this country...
We're already in trouble. This is what obama wants.
I sure hope ya'll are prepared!
and that means all ya'll
This would literally be the launch of World War 3. The United States needs to end their support of this country and its terrorist programs.
Time to NUKE isreal. Then the rest of that @!$%#hole, the middle east.
That's insanity.
The president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said "We will wipe Israel off the map"
nobsartist,
Are you an anarchist?
Can't be an anarchist. An anarchist has brains.
AND.......I hope they do! This presidency and incompetent and impenitent administration has neither the simple sense nor fortitude to see a world calamity staring it in the face. There will be mushroom clouds billowing in the mid east before this moronic leadership figures it all out......God help us all!
You hope they do and god likes this ? You surely do not speak for the thinking human race of today.
None of the Arab countries around Iran want or have any interest to attack Iran, Israel is the only one country in the middle east who want to attack Iran, Israel chooses to reside around Arab countries knowing all the risk they re taking! instead of been a good ally with Alll arab countries around them, they want to attack Iran now, few years ago.. Israel attacked Lebanon and Palestines, over thousands died! most of them innocent people.
By the way how Israel is going and doing things! it will only make things worse as we go... their future will come to an end one way or another! this is not what I wish for.. but this is the well of God that s been writting before us.
After Prophet Moses who came to free them, yes they were at th time most favorite people of God / the chosen ones. But they were also responsible for many other prophets who were either rejected or killed by them! you think they are still God favorite people?
Israel chooses to reside around Arab countries...What do you think this is a Bugs Bunny cartoon....Get a saw out and cut the ground and float the country away to another place on the Earth...LMAO
What are you thinking...."Let's Move Israel"...
Think first...and Moses is dead...leave him out of this
Forgot to take your pills today,Maxeemas?
The jews lve to keep statting they are Gd's chosen people but lets keep some perspective--the Bible where this is quoted was written by Jews -duh!
If true, this would be the WORST idea since the Iraq invasion of 2003. The United States should NOT support Israel (whom I suspect are also behind the Iraqi nuclear scientist assassinations) in this naked aggression.
First, we can't AFFORD to get involved; we just got out of Iraq and we're still in Afghanistan.
Second, it is a REALLY bad idea. Most optimistically, it would set the nuclear program back five years. What is the point? Delaying the inevitable? So Israel will simply keep knocking down Iran every five years or less whenever their nuclear program becomes viable again? We can't support middle eastern hit/counter-hit gangland style warfare.
Why is it OK for Israel to assert itself and bully it's neighbors with the threat of nuclear weapons but it is NOT alright for Iran to even develop them? India and Pakistan have been nuclear powers for generations now, and they haven't blown each other off the map (and they are, arguably, at least as hateful towards each other as Israel and Iraq currently are).
The Iranian government is crazy, true; but at the moment? Israel doesn't sound so tightly wrapped either...
Iran is not crazy to proceed with wipping off Israel of the Map, Iran knows that the allies of srael will 2 wipping them of the map.
its very simple : Israel wants to control the middle east and dont want any one to gain power there with Nuclear weapons simply because they dont trust any one there!
Iran will not stop until they reach their goal, Arab were controlling the middle east before and they are not going to let a country of 70 years of existance control them.
Since when has Israel ever overtaken an Arab country to control it? Self-preservation is not the same as overtaking and controlling If you can't even understand these basic principles you should log off now. Don't forget, the Jews were always there, Britain and the US just made their occupied lands official after WW2 by creating Israel. You comment implies Israel could maybe just move to another neighborhood and leave the Arab countries alone, I believe history has proven who the aggressors really are in the middle east.
trout, after WW2 the jews forced palestinians off the land that was owned by palestinians. Palestinians lost their land because they fled for fear of their lives, they were intimidated into selling their land, or they were forced off of it. So one could say that they have overtaken Palestinian land. This is what started the whole mess. Arabs see the Israelis as aggressors. That's why the Arabs have attacked them several times. Most of the world's countries feel the same way. So saying something over and over again won't make it true. The world knows the truth. Israel bombed Iraq's nuclear facility--that made Israel an aggressor. If they bomb Iran they will once again be aggressors.
Or Iran could open up its Nuc. facilities and proceed to dismantle them, as THEY DON'T NEED NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS!!! Problem solved. No one dies.
Oh, too easy. That would never happen. I'm just dreaming of sanity...
It is not about nuclear power plants, the rest of the world has already offered to build power plants and provide fuel for nothing for the plants in Iran. Iran wants to make weapons grade plutonium, that is what this is all about.
Why should they do that? They have the right to have nuclear power just like all the other countries that have it do.
Iran has a perfect right to develop nuclear power of their own (and not just power provided by outsiders who could use shutting off that power as a threat). It is NOT our place to decide for them what kind of power they need or can have.
Mary and dslsca; SIEG HEIL!!!!!
In response to Mary Jones and dslsca:
Did either of you read what MM just posted? And beyond that, where the heck have you two been that you don't know what Iran's intentions really are? It is not power plants they want. They want to create nuclear bombs and warheads under the guise of building power plants. Good grief!
Southern Belle is correct! Some of you people have no knowledge of the ulterior motives Iran has.
Southern Belle: I was also told that Iraq was building nukes and the fact that the UN inspectors found no evidence of that just meant that Iraq was hiding them well. I didn't believe that then and I don't believe Iran is a serious threat to the US now.
I should have finished with "they just want to build nuc. weapons, under the excuse of nuc. power plants". Sure every country has the right to build power plants but not nuc. weapons. I believe he will nuc. Israel and take the fallout afterwards. In his mind he would be the hero of the Arab people. (just my opinion)
Would we want to go to war with Iran's bodyguard Russia (Putin is another scary guy with a horrible hidden story behind him), if Israel is already glazed over? Would the American peope?
If Hitler had nuc. weapons he would have used them without hesitation. History repeats itself over and over. All Ahmadinejad needs is a purple turban to go with his future nucular weapons. I don't even think he'd use a third party. I think he'd want to bask in all the credit.
Gabriel, if people on this site had nuclear weapons, we would already be dead.
I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm too old to care but ask yourselves, "Does Isreal really think it can suppress Iran forever?" because if it doesn't the time to choose a course of action very carefully.
The smart play? keep the internet, tv beaming, facebook etc flowing and encourage the smart Isreal kids to up the traffic level. The kids in Iran honestly will eventually make sure the country joins the open free world
It worked for the rest of the middle east (or at least a good handful so far). I suspect that would be a viable option for Iran, too. It will happen eventually. When I was a kid, I could've never imagined that the Soviet Union would collapse and it did. I think it would've collapsed a lot quicker if we'd have broadband internet back in the 1980s...
Sebastion - The reasons the soviets collapsed was due to spending so much of their nations wealth on the military, and partially, spending money they didn't have fighting a war in Afghanistan. Hummmm.......sounds kinda familiar doesn't it.
The great Roman Empire fell in large part because of the financial drain of waging foreign wars one after another. Great Britain also fell with too many foreign interests and wars.
Every dog as his day.
j burk,
Yes the Soviets spent alot of money to keep up with Reagan's spending especially on the "star wars" bull$hhit. That was not a bad thing that the Russkies spent themselves into oblivion. However, the US national debt went from about $700 billion to over $2 trillion during the Reagan spending spree. That was not a good thing especially since it continued after his reign.
The s%&t is about to hit the fan now!!
I've not sure what's worse, the right wing nut jobs in America or those in Israel!
Especially when both act in collaboration.
How about those Democrats that have been in power since 2007 and can't give us a budget? It's only government money, right?
Rd speaking on the subject has always been tough for you right.
One thing is sure - they deserve each other.
Saudi Arabia is already rumored to have given Israel a green light to fly over its territory to bomb Iran. They will obviously not publicly admit this and it will be done on the down low...but make no mistake about it, Saudi Arabia wants Iran throttled.
I agree. Why in the world we have to support Israel regardless of their actions? We may eventually could do that when necessary. That doesn't mean an obligation. Each country shoudl be responsible for your own actions and assume its consequences. I am sick and tired to hear Republicans, Democrats and Presidents Bush and Obama to say we MUST support Israel unconditionally? Something must be really whorn wiht this picture. The American people must challenge this crap. If I was Israeli I would be shamefull to be from a country that to exist depend of the USA. The US congress is a joke Ariel Sharon said very well " The US congress is a territory occupied by Israel" Maybe this explains everything.
Sacred
I know.......obama
Israel exists to pick a fight with Muslims so that their bank owned media in the United States can brainwash the public with anti-islamic rhetoric so that people stay away from ideas like "interest" is forbidden. This is the real threat Iran and in general Islam presents to them.
This is because the rulers of this country cling to power via their control of the money supply made possible by charging us interest for money that banks create out of thin air when we borrow. This practice known as debt based monetary system has resulted in world wide slavery where entire nations are paying interest to those few who are running the ponzi scheme.
The matrix is real. It is the world pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. You are only a battery to them.
This is by far one of the best analysis i've read. Bankers and money. without interest the economy would not be sustained in the western world. nothing is real about our economy..its all virtual.