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Iran's Revolutionary Guards test fire a missile during military maneuvers at an undisclosed location Sept. 27, 2009. The maneuvers were aimed at
With tensions between Israel and Iran running sky high over the latter's nuclear program, U.S. officials and military analysts are growing increasingly concerned that Israel will launch a multi-phase air and missile attack that could trigger waves of retaliatory missile strikes from Tehran.
Such a shootout could quickly spiral into a regional conflict that would potentially force the U.S. to intervene to protect its interests.
The emerging consensus among current and former U.S. officials and other experts interviewed by NBC News is that that an Israeli attack would be a multi-faceted assault on key Iranian nuclear installations, involving strikes by both warplanes and missiles. It could also include targeted attacks by Israeli special operations forces and possibly even the use of massive explosives-laden drones, they say.
The Iranian response to such an attack is uncertain, but many experts and officials believe it is likely to include retaliatory missile strikes. Iran has more missiles in its arsenal than Israel, according to some estimates, and has the capability of striking targets in most Israeli population centers.
"I think that it would strike Iran as a reasonable response, an eye for an eye," said Christopher J Ferrero, a professor of diplomacy at Seton Hall University in New Jersey and an expert on Middle East missile forces.
He also said Iran would likely attack major cities with its Shahab 3 missiles, which he said are not as accurate as the Israeli missiles, but would be an effective "instrument of terror … that could certainly cause significant damage to heavily populated suburban and urban areas.
Israel possesses advanced anti-missile defenses, but those systems could be overwhelmed if Tehran launched large numbers of missiles, as Ferrero expects.
Reuters
The Center for Strategic and International Studies outlines these options for an Israeli strike on Iran. Click the image for the full-size chart.
Given the immense difficulties in carrying out successful air strikes on the four key Iranian installations using its warplanes alone -- as laid out last week by the New York Times, U.S. officials say Israel would be likely to coordinate such airstrikes with waves of missiles. This would greatly increase the chances of penetrating fortifications that Iran has built to protect some of its key installations and overwhelm Iran's air defenses, said the former and current U.S. officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
"Two words: Jericho missiles," said one former White House and Pentagon official, speaking on condition of anonymity, when asked how Israel would attack Iranian targets at great distances. "They are conventionally armed, have a very small CEP (circular error of probability, meaning they are highly accurate) and can be used in conjunction with a strike fighter operation."
Israel has as many as 100 Jericho ballistic missiles – both short- and medium-range – as well as submarine-launched cruise missiles, though the officials say they believe the latter are unlikely to be used. The short-range Jericho I missiles would be of no use in an attack on Iran, because the targets are far beyond its 300-mile range. However, the medium-range Jericho II's are capable of hitting targets as far as 900 miles away – or as far east as Tehran. Israel also tested a Jericho III intercontinental ballistic missile in 2008 and Israeli media have reported that it may have deployed one or more of the weapons, which would put all of Iran within reach.
The missiles would most likely be launched from the Hirbat Zekharyah missile range, midway between Israel and the Mediterranean Coast, according to "Critical Mass: the Dangerous Race for Superweapons in a Fragmenting World," by William E. Burrows and Robert Windrem, and various Israeli press reports.
Although designed to be part of Israel's nuclear deterrent force, the Jerichos can be equipped with high explosives as well as nuclear warheads. U.S. officials have said that an Israeli attack, if it happens, would be intended to surgically take out the nuclear facilities, not inflict the mass casualties that would result from a nuclear attack.
Related coverage:
Israel teams with terror group to kill Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC
Panetta report fuels concerns that Israel will attack Iran
Iran has no capability to defend against a missile strike, said Ferrero, the expert on Middle East missile arsenals.
"If the Jerichos are accurate enough to get to their targets, they will get to their targets," he said.
What Iran does have is hundreds of Shahab 3 medium range ballistic missiles, according to U.S. estimates. The Shahab 3 also has a range of roughly 900 miles.
Israel, possibly supplemented by U.S. shipborne anti-missile systems – the Aegis Standard Missile-2 -- could intercept and destroy some of the incoming Iranian missiles, said Ferrero. But the numbers favor Iran, he said.
"I believe that (the Iranians) have a sufficient inventory that they could overwhelm those missile defenses and still get enough missiles through to cause damage," he said.
The critical factor may be the number of missile launchers in Iran's inventory, Ferrero said, because penetrating Israel's defenses would require numerous missiles, but also enough launchers to be able to fire them off simultaneously. That number is a closely guarded secret, he said.
Additionally, U.S. intelligence estimates say Iran has supplied Hezbollah with more than 40,000 short-range rockets and missiles since 2006. However, U.S. officials are uncertain whether Hezbollah would follow Iranian orders, and risk Israeli retaliation or, if they did, how many they would fire. The majority of the rockets and missiles are unguided. Israel and the U.S. have worked on a short-range missile defense system called Iron Dome, but there are concerns that waves of attacks could overwhelm the system.
Also open to question in U.S. and Israeli military circles is whether an Israeli attack would meet its objective: setting back the Iranian nuclear program anywhere from two to five years.
U.S. officials say Israel would be likely to concentrate its attacks on four key Iranian nuclear complexes. Key facilities within those complexes – the Natanz and Fordo centrifuge facilities, both south of Tehran; the Arak research reactor, southwest of Tehran; and a uranium hexafloride production and research facility near the city of Isfahan – are protected by heavy fortifications, they said.
The Jerichos are stored in tunnels in limestone formations around Hirbat Zekharyah and rolled out for firing. They would likely be used as part of a one-two punch, the officials say. The first attack would be carried out by Israeli strike fighters and would be intended to breach the heavily fortified outer ceilings of the facilities. The second (and possibly even third) wave would be missile attacks aimed at destroying the facilities within, the officials said.
Asked if Jerichos would have the accuracy and the explosive power to take out hardened bunkers or fortifications believed to be protecting Iran's most-sensitive underground nuclear facilities, a current U.S. official replied, "You would be surprised at their accuracy." The official added that the missiles' warheads would contain a special mix of explosives that could penetrate the Iranian defenses.
U.S. officials also say Israel may have learned the location of facilities that fabricate centrifuge components. These, too, could be targeted.
A 2010 book on the possibility of an Israeli attack laid out the difficulties Israel would face if it attempted to use only its strike fighters on those targets.
"Attacks against the sites at Natanz, Isfahan and Arak alone would stretch Israel's capability and planners might be reluctant to enlarge the raid further," wrote authors Steven Simon and Dana H. Allin, in "The Sixth Crisis – Iran, Israel and the Rumors of War." Simon, then a fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, now heads the Middle East Desk at the National Security Council.
The biggest problem is the fortification of the two centrifuge facilities. Simon and Allin describe the challenge using aircraft only.
"Natanz is the only one of the … likely targets that is largely underground, sheltered by up to 23 meters (75 feet) of soil and concrete," they wrote. "… Bombs used in a ‘burrowing' mode, however, could penetrate deeply enough to fragment the inner surface of the ceiling structures above the highly fragile centrifuge arrays and even precipitate the collapse of the entire structure."
But for the attack to have high odds of success, they argue, aircraft would have to drop additional bombs into the cavities created by the first bombs. That would require "time on target" -- a luxury that the Israeli jets at the outermost limits of their 1,100-mile range would likely not have. While they estimate the success rate of such a plan at "better than 70 percent," they call it "complicated and highly risky."
Another difficulty for attacking Israeli aircraft would be finding a route to the targets that could be flown covertly or with the tacit approval of Sunni Arab states, who are at least as frightened of an Iranian nuclear capability as the Israelis.
Simon and Allin (and others) have written that there are three "plausible routes" that Israeli warplanes would take to attack Iran: a northern approach, likely along the Syrian-Turkish border; a central path that would take them over Jordan and Iraq; and a southern route that would transit the lower end of Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. The southern route is the most likely, U.S. officials suggest, because the Saudis and other Sunni-dominated Gulf states are eager for someone to take out the Iranian threat. They prefer the U.S. do it, but have reportedly shared intelligence on the Iranian program with the Israelis, if only on a limited basis, according to the U.S. officials.
No matter what route the fighter bombers take, they would use what one U.S. official described as "high-low, low-high" flight paths – flying high first to increase fuel efficiency, then low for most of the trip to evade radar, then climbing high again as the bombs are released in what is known as a "flip toss" from as far as 10 miles from the target.
The Israelis would be prepared to lose aircraft if necessary, the officials said.
Although Simon and Allin do not discuss adding a missile component, other experts, including many current and former U.S. officials, believe the Israelis already have made a decision to have them in the attack menu.
Missile attacks would be coordinated with fighter-bomber attacks (presumably, the Israelis' F-16, F-18 and extended-range F-15I Strike Eagle). The missiles would have to be launched so that warheads strike targets following the strike fighter attacks. Because of the short flight time, minutes rather than hours in the case of the aircraft, the missile launch would almost certainly take place at the last possible moment to ensure the secrecy of the overall attack.
The Israelis are not planning to use their submarine-launched cruise missile force -- "not enough of them," one official said of the subs. (The Israelis have long had nuclear tipped sub-launched cruise missiles as part of their deterrent force.)
Beyond the strike fighters and the missile force, U.S. officials suggest the Israelis could use two other "weapons" against Iran.
The first is special operations forces that would be secretly inserted into the country. At the least, they could be employed to illuminate aim points for laser-guided bunker-busting bombs. At the most, they could launch their own attacks on facilities, particularly those believed to contain enriched uranium.
The other is a new generation of large drones with wingspans approaching those of a Boeing 777 (almost 200 feet). Costing $30 million each, the Heron drones are capable of remaining airborne for 40 hours at a time and have a range of 4,600 miles. While they can be equipped with surveillance and electronic warfare equipment, some officials call them "strike drones," meaning they could be loaded with explosives and used to attack Iranian targets.
While the initial days of an Israeli-Iranian conflict would probably be bloody, most experts say that the open warfare would be expected to wind down within days or weeks, since neither side has the ability to occupy the other's territory or enough missiles to sustain attacks.
But that would bring with it its own set of problems, as the conflict would be likely to continue on a lower level, involving covert operations and terrorism.
"You could have a very nasty covert war emerge," said Ferrero.
Robert Windrem is a senior investigative producer for NBC News.
Leave a Comment:
quit instigating war, israel. You can go to hell--but first, give back all the weapons we gave you
2,500 rocket attacks on the civilian population before Israel retaliated at Palestine. Rockets were being fired from civilian positions, so that was where Israel was forced to attack.
Iran has promised to "Erase Israel from the pages of history". That sure sounds like a threat of total destruction to me.
Vegeta57, Let me put it like this; If you say you are going to kill my family, and are reaching for a gun...... guess what I would do?
You seem kind of genocidal.
Israel is far from united in attacking Iran.
"Iran is considered a guaranteed partner of Russia. A strike against Iran is an indirect strike against Russia and it's interests." ~ Colonel-General (Ret.) Leonid Ivashov - Russia Today TV, February 1, 2012
"China will not hesitate to protect Iran even with a third World War.." ~ Major General Zhang Zhaozhong - Chinese National Defense University (12/01/2011)
@sonar guy: Yeah right, let's make sure you only look at Israel's side of the story.
Make sure not to mention the 50 years of land stealing, humiliation, night time invasions of homes, torture, limits to access to water for palestinians but not for settlers, limits to where palestinian fishermen can go... that Israel committed.
Yep, let's really make sure nobody knows what the Israelis have done to the palestinians to warrant such hatred, because then people might start to realize why pretty much the entire world despises Israel.
freedman1 - Does that mean we should side with evil forces or kow-tow to them ?
I think not.
We saved both of these countries in world war II. One from Japan, and the other from the Nazis. Where is the gratitude ?
Well it looks like the United States Intelligence Agency has just told Iran what it should do, what they should look out for and what weapons to use. The Obama administration should have also given the Israelis the same information so they could all plan their war accordingly. I thought when you needed a battle plan no one was supposed to give the details away to the enemy.
2500 rocket attacks and what, one Israeli dead and three injured -- and for that Israel rounds up 1000's of Palestinians bulldozes homes and kills hundreds? Spare us your incessant whining.. If you didn't treat ALL Arabs like third class citizens none of this would be happening..
WW3 will start if Israel attacks. We are all sick and tired of this BS, most of us are going to pay a heavy price because of these A$$holes on both sides. Life is too short and these A$$holes want to make it even shorter, go for it and get it over with.
As much as I hate to say this, Israel needs to start taking care of itself and not act like it's provocations against other nations is warranted because they believe the US is in their back pocket. It's a little irritating every time one of the other middle eastern nations - to include Lebanon - says something bad about Israel it's all over the news and we're supposed to rush to poor Israel's defense.
Should we support them if a full-scale invasion is in progress: yes; should we rush to their aid because they're waving their pistols around: no. Israel needs to wake up and realize they are a very small nation that is surrounded by a bevy of enemies so they should act accordingly.
I grow tired of the never-ending game middle eastern chess that is currently at a tense stalemate. Why can't we focus on our own problems and THEN worry about someone else's?
Israel is a large part of the reason America is bankrupt! We have been pay them out of the US tay payers pocket for nearly 70 years. No wonder our countries infrastructure is falling apart. We payed our taxes to do up keep here and our polifukinticians have been giving to people who do not deserve it. Israel will be the cause of the end, a great war and American bankruptcy!!!!
Back to square one like Iraqi wars!
Drum beatings are all over!
More will be in streets.
Who cares?
I'm tired of Israel sucking on the U.S. teat.
And I'm tired on the Iranian insane asylum.
Let 'em fight as long as we stay out of it.
.
Too bad we don't have a President with any B***s.... Iran would have already been put in its pithy place.
As for all of you with isolationist views.
NO, we're NOT going to sacrifice our place on the world stage so you can get more food-stamps to buy your cheetos and soda pop!!
War! War! War! War!
It doesn't take balls to start wars.
Our place on the world stage? Every nation on this rock knows we love nothing more than flexing our military muscles while looking in the mirror at ourselves.
How about we sacrifice some of our bloated military budget to fix our soon to be failing power grid? Or fix the thousands of bridges in disrepair? How about feeding the hungry children in the U.S.?
Why does our nation have to suffer so others don't have to?
Your might makes right mentality will be the very downfall of this nation.
I know it is sick but I hope Israel attacks Iran and gets the nuke facilities. I hope there is an extended war with lots of Iranians killed, the "bad" ones. The people over there in the middle east need to stop fooling around with small scale terror attacks and have it out once and for all.
Isreal needs to understand one thing: we will not be standing behind them like a big brother. They attack Iran, let them suffer the consequences. We need to get ourselves out of the Middle East. We have shed enough blood and spent more than enough money on that hell hole.
justoneguy------I love reading posts from people like you, gutlesswonders who've never served their country in any capacity. What amazes me about people like you is: you don't have a clue. You are what is wrong with this country today and you've been in the lead for getting her there. I'd be willing to bet President Obama has more "B***s" than you've got.
NYMike: Yeah -- let's let ball-less Obama continue his pussified apologetics for this country and its people, and let him continue to think that his so-called charisma will have our enemies beating their swords into plowshares. Meanwhile, Iran's about to go nuclear and blow the hell out of anyone who doesn't think like they do, including us. If that happens, you won't have to worry about trying to feed the poor, or fixing our infrasructure -- it'll be vaporized.
Your statements aren't exactly accurate. Maybe numbers wise (maybe) but you make it sound like Israel oppresses the Palestinians for fun, or just from some evil bloodlust. This could not be farther from the truth. Dating thousands of years, these two peoples have been at odds. The Jews were enslaved in mass, murdered and mistreated by the Arabs throughout history. Israel has never desired conquest or superiority in the ways of historic conquerors. They have always desired peace within their own borders and have dealt justly with foreigners. Not the same can be said for the Arabs throughout history. Xerxes as one example. There is much more to the picture than you speak about. The Palestinians are strictly kept on their side today for security reasons. Yeah, it sucks, but history has shown over and over again that the Palestinians will never stop attacking Israel. The Israelis do NOT randomly launch missiles over to the Palestinian side. They do not suicide bomb innocent civilians. They keep their agreements and they belong in Israel. Remember. They had only a small area after WW2 and the Arab masses then surrounded them in order to take what little they had been afforded by the U.N. -The Arabs tasted what they deserved in the 6 day war and because of the Arabs own greed and audacity, Israel proceeded to take what was theirs to begin with and they took the rest of their lands back. Don't forget that these land disputes began by the Arabs attacking Israel and getting their butts kicked for it. Now they want the lands back that were for Israel to begin with. These are factions fighting each other. They are genetic relatives. They are the same peoples, from the same regions. If the Arabs have a right to the land. Israel definitely has the same right. The Arabs got their butts kicked for not wanting to share, but Israel would share if the Arabs would ever stop attacking and show that they are a people sincerely walking in the way of peace.
Some of the people on here lack understanding of the dynamics of international politics. Despite what some of the Chinese and Russian officials may say, they would UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES attack Israel, the U.S., or their allies, even if Israel attacked Iran. The result would be a catastrophic third would war and a major global depression. The Chinese have more sense than to get involved in an Israel-Iran conflict, because they wouldn't want to endanger their economic growth. The Russians are in no position to sustain a major war with outdated equipment and bleak economic conditions. I highly doubt the Israelis would be foolish enough to attack the Iranians, they are most likely trying to increase U.S. pressure on the Iranians to abandon their nuclear program.
There is no credible immediate threat of a WWIII, despite the saber-rattling. Keep this in mind!
NYMike
Let's see..."soon to be failing power grid" ...ya right. Bridges in disrepair? Obama already said that would be done 4 years ago. Children hungry? Free school lunches and plenty of food stamps around here. No starving children in the streets.
Where do you live????!!! STOP the isolationist views....we are a part of this world.
imwhitewolf
Isreal needs to understand one thing: we will not be standing behind them like a big brother. They attack Iran, let them suffer the consequences. We need to get ourselves out of the Middle East. We have shed enough blood and spent more than enough money on that hell hole.
justoneguy
------I love reading posts from people like you, gutlesswonders who've never served their country in any capacity.
Umm, I served in the Marine Corps...honorable....- DUNCE
Yes, we are part of the word, but we are not the whole world.
If you think our power grid isn't in dire need of updating, I fail to see why I should even reply to you. You clearly have more concern for the other side of the planet than the country you live in.
And yes, 1 out of 5 children in the U.S. go to bed hungry.
You're entitled to wear blinders, but don't expect every one else to.
We have given Israel over 100 billion over the years as well as armed and trained them. I guess you want us to send our troops over there to die for them too?
justoneguy. in my opinion, you sound like some kind of warmongerer. If Israel were to attack Iran that would be no different than the day of infamy in 1941 when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Either both are right or both are wrong. justoneguy, it's not in the United States' Interests for Iran to be attacked. It's only in Israel's interest. Iran poses no threat to us, we have thousands of intercontinental ballistic missles. One thing is for sure, though, all of this talk by Israeli politicians of attacking Iran is definitely hurting the U.S. consumer because it's raising gas prices due to fear in the market. If you're so against isolationism I suggest you go over to Israel and offer your services. You'd fit right in with those politicians. .
Raising gas prices??!!! You're joking right? The instability of 1/3 the world is threatened and you're worried about another $3 for a tank of gas?
WAR MONGER??!! Who started all this? Try Iran. "Pearl Harbor" ? That was a Nazi/Japan conspiracy.
No Joe....shrinking into a hole will not solve problems. Fortunately, you are not in charge of anything.
Dude it's not isolationism it's interventionism. You must be a Rick Santorum or Mitt Romney supporter....in any case we cant afford another war dipsh1t
You all make it sound as if Israel wants to bomb Iran for fun. I have no doubt Israel feels genuinely threatened by Iran's imminent nuclear capability and honestly thinks Iran is out to get them. But I'm also sure they realize attacking Iran at this point would be suicidal, what with China and Russia deciding to beat their breasts in an attempt to puff up their importance on the world stage. Israel's best option is to bristle their own nuclear warheads at Iran and promise large-scale reprisals should they attack.
Israel won't attack Iran for the same reason Iran won't attack Israel. It would be the end of both countries.
The first post was off was it not? They BOTH are mongers of mutually assured destruction. But just think, how many profiteers, capitalist "contractors" will have a shot at making doe. Bread, Cake... And Oil corporations BIG oil as it were will be rolling in the batter. So why is it not in Americas interest that this war happens? Our peoples interest of course which is the majority of America. But the few the VERY few have loads of cash to grab with greedy money grubbing glad hands. ;] And to do so al that needs to happen is another war. You know the one, that the tea bagging republican extremist keep spewing about. Iran.. Sense we cant go back into Iraq and all...
Seriously in the end it all about money because who in there right mind honestly wants to kill all of there people or get them killed? Hitlers gone my friends. This is about the bottom dollar and nothing more. Making the world go round cuz gangster make the world go round . ;] "West Side Connection"
Cheers
REMEMBER your comments vegeta, when you stand before Jehovah God, of Whom Israel is the Apple of His Eye.!!!
As usual>>>the fight is going to start when Israel hits back!!! >>> Live long and prosper!!!
I will say this:
This article is based on "stale bread" (old intelligence) and these so called "experts" how many know Farsi? How many actually lived with Iranians to gain an insight into their psychology (figure out what they will do), with these so called US Iranian Experts playing War Games and developing scenarios based on what a Western Mindset and stale intelligence versus what the Iranians currently have?
In the article they don't even know the difference between "(75 Feet)" and the actual 75 meters. As both Israel and the US have both said that they cannot destroy something 75 meters (about 240 Feet) underground, and I have to agree, as the only previous weapon that could was the "Earth Penetrator" Nuclear Warhead of the US IRBM Pershing II designed to attack the USSR Underground C4I and the Ural Mountain Complex, and all of those were destroyed as well as the manufacturing techniques and TELs (Transportation Erection Launchers, don't blame me about that Erection thing that is what they are called for those in the Missile Community aka "Coneheads") as verified by the USSR.
As far as the numbers of Iranian TELs they just love to justify to the Iranian People why the Iranian People must suffer while all the Iranian Oil Wealth is spent on 21st Century Weapons Systems (the Iranian Parades shown on FARS News, as to why it is mandatory for a so called Iranian Weapons Expert to know Farsi.).
Go ask the Russian Federation about the Advanced Anti Aircraft Systems and ABMs that were sold to the Iranians. This is how they even detected the US Stealth MQ - 170. Like I said before the so called experts are basing their assessments on old information.
And to the posters that keep derailing about Israel versus Palestine. Go research Amim Al Husseini, Pan Arabic Plan, original intent of the Arab League of Nations, etc..
NYMike,
Talk with YOUR State Government about YOURState's screwed up Infrastructure. As far as the "other Infrastructure" you want to chop the US Military Defense Budget just like President Clinton did before, so suffer the consequences for the US Army Corps of Engineers not having money to rebuild the US Infrastructure. example: President Clinton chopped the US Military Defense Budget so the US Army Corps of Engineers did not have any funds for their Long Term Projects/Programs; specifically the previously planned upgrades, retrofits, modifications, new construction, of the Levees at New Orleans (before Katrina), so during the US Congressional Katrina Hearings US Congress tried to blame the US Army Corps of Engineers and the President Clinton Budgets Cuts were produced and US Congress in a round about way of Lawyers and US Politicians (not admitting full fault) apologized to the US Army Corps of Engineers.
As far as arming and training Israel, otherway around. Ever since the US and UN Arms Embargoes and Sanctions during the Arab Israelis Wars (while the Arab League of Nations continued to buy New USSR Military Equipment to Attack Israel), Israel built their own Defense Industry that since it is for a matter of survival that is better than the current US Technology (why US Ally Saudi Arabia wants the US F-35 only if it includes the "Israelis Package"). For the longest time Israel has been interdicting the Islamic Jihadists, especially the Hamas Foreign Fighters that are exported Worldwide (money given to the Hamas Warlords), almost like Hezbollah. But, you don't "have any skin in the game" and saw the decreases of Hamas Foreign Fighters and Hezbollah here (Afghanistan) attempting to kill your arse.
Ask yourself Why the Arab League of Nations and the "Islamic World" cannot be happy with all this land (I know the answer, do you?):
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Israel_and_Arab_states_map_k.png
And, NYMike, quite a few of us after getting out of the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces, became Fire Fighters, Police, EMTs, etc. to continue to Serve the US Citizens. Many for some reason ended up at New York City, for who knows why, maybe because our mailing address was APO NY or NYC offered the best pay and benefits. This is why weeks after the 9/11 2001 Attacks we (US Military Teams attached to SAD/SOG) were nicknamed the "Vengence Force" and went into Afghanistan to overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Iranian supported Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government of Afghanistan that provided Osama Bin Laden and the Islamic Jihadists of Al Quada with Islamic Sanctuary and fully supported the Islamic Jihadist Training Camps.
JoeCal,
REALLY? "No Threat". Why do you think that President Obama backpeddled on not doing President Bush's Plan to deploy US ABMs to Europe. December 31, 2011 US ABMs to Romania. And if you think Iranian ICBMs bought by Iran from North Korea and shipped thru Bejing China 2010 cannot reach California, think again, two words: Earth Rotation. In 2011, Iran used one of these ICBMs to put a monkey into orbit 15x, proving that this is a true ICBM that uses Earth Rotation to traverse the distances to attack any location on Earth. SOS Clinton and the US Department of State seem to believe that this is a REAL Threat.
And I already told you before FIX YOUR BANKRUPT ILLEGAL ALIEN HARBOR STATE OF CALIFORNIA. Stop spending a large part of your budget on Illegal Aliens Education, Health Care, Imprisonment of Violent Crimes Illegal Aliens. This does not include the amount YOU spend on Public Assistance, Food Stamps, etc.. And stop sponging off the State of Hawaii by automatically slapping a "Paradise Tax" on things shipped from California to the State of Hawaii using the excuse of the Jones Act, as it is the State of Hawaii, not the Territory of Hawaii anymore.
Oh, yes, your previous posts (other Topics) indicated how Anti US Military you are, SO Demand the Closures of All US Military Installations at the State of California. The Southeastern States and Hawaii said they want all the US Military Installations of California.
If most of them stopped acting like it's 1200BC, there wouldn't be an issue.
This is obviously a pro-Israel news report that doesn't fully discuss the options available to Iran. The most serious is the closing of the Strait of Hormuz. This would send oil prices sky high to the point of collapsing the US economy into a recession, if not a depression. Europe would certainly go into a depression. The intent of this article seems to pander to those in the US who think that war is ok as long as you can get away with it and not pay too dear a price. It is also stunning the array of weapons both sides have. The US, Russia, and China are truly evil empires. They should never have given all these weapons to paranoid entities like Israel and Iran.
The core theme of a people is the primary governing doctrine to which they acknowledge and adhere. The weapons people build are intended to protect thier doctrines, values, and economies, and the way they live. People who adhere to the doctrine can be relied on to be predictable according to that doctrine.
The constitution of America, it's ammendments, and the bill of rights are the doctrine of the United States. These documents, and tenets are clearly written, explicite products of the age of reason. The bible is a matter of choice, as is the Koran, the Torah or any other "holy" book. There is no state religion nor intent to discriminate. These documents are not, as some claim, based on religion or Christianity. They are a redesigned evolution of the ancient concepts of res publica (republic), and democracy. It could be said that most of the founders were Christians, but the core documents are not.
The Islamic Republic of Iran has as its core doctrine and constitution the Koran. The Koran has in it's tenets some personal wisdom on how to treat other Muslim men. It also has as it's tenets the explicite imperatives to mount attacks and kill, plunder, and subjugate the disbeliever, to make every strategem of war, and to make the world safe only for Islam, and also, that a special paradise awaits any jihadist who dies in the effort. This core tenet is echoed by it's adherents from Tabari and Bukhari in early Islam, to Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman of the 19th century Ottoman Empire.
I am told that the muslims respect the Jews as "people of the book". Why then do I read for myself in the Iranian constitution that the Jews are "apes and pigs", and not to be befriended? Why do I find the justification in the Iranian constitution to commit genocide, force migrations, or subjugate unbelievers?
There are explicite and implicite core tenets in the Iranian constitution that command the Iranians to attack, kill and destroy the Jews of Isreal. Why should Isreal allow Iran to arm, if they can stop it. Israel has enough enemies to deal with on her front door step.
Exactly right, Chris. The civilized world will treat them like human beings when they start acting as such. Not that we should be holding our breath on that one.
Gratitude? I believe this comes under the subject of "What have you done for me today".
If you think Israel won't strike think again. Never again is their motto. Long live Israel. BTW how are they going to close the Straits?
vegeta57-4618266-Israel has a right to protect itself. They are not just going to sit by and let Iran impose it's hatred and violence on them. Nor should they. Iran is a cancer on this world. It does nothing worth while in or out of its borders. They supply terrorists with weapons. I am not Jewish and I don't want my country being pulled into this mess. The moment Iran has a nuke, they will use it and then Israel and US will make Iran a smoldering mess. I just hope they get the Ayatollah and his band of crazy religious morons.
Here it is in a nutshell;
Prime minister of Israel is coming to meet with Obama, this weekend; he wants U.S. help with our heavy lift aircraft to use bunker buster bombs, Israel has no heavy lift capacity; or he will tel Obama, Israel will have to use it's Nuclear weapons against the Iran facility's, around 5- 7 Nuclear bombs many times bigger than Hiroshima; Obama can not go along, (if he wants to have any chance at re-election); Israel will strike, it is a certainty, they will use Nuclear, Iran will retaliate with their missiles and hit the Israel city's, (the unknown is if they have any nuclear bombs already) , their missiles have the range and also have the lift capacity for Nuclear , if they have developed some already (which many experts believe they do); the outcome will be a third world war in the mid-east;
we talked, for 8 years, we wasted our breath, we are heading into a major war, they had better start re-introducing the draft.
mike-2130882 - Much of what you have stated is not accurate (but you are not alone). I don't have the time to point out everything that is incorrect, but I will pick one:
Xerxes was NOT an Arab, he was a Persian. The Persians are different from Arabs (most of Iran has Persian links), and have a different history. It was only recent history (last 50 years or so) that Iran became involved with the Israeli conflict, which is far different than the picture you paint. Contrary to popular belief, the Jews lived side-by-side peacefully with Arabs for hundreds, if not thousands, of years in the vicinity of Jerusalem. This conflict is actually relatively new, stemming from Theodor Herzl's desire to found a Jewish State near their original "homeland" in the late 19th century. Prior to this, no one ever thought of a Palestine nation. There was an ethnic group called Palestinians indigenous to much of what is now present day Israel who lived there for thousands of years, but they were never thought of as a nationality. No one ever conceived of a Nation State separate from the larger kingdoms and empires that historically controlled this geographic area (Moors, Ottomans, etc..)Basically, Herzl beat the Palestinians to it (contrary to popular radical Islamist talking points).
This conflict is poorly understood by most, with bad information rampant on both sides of the equation. Most in the West do not know that the first documented case of terrorism in the region was committed by Jewish radicals against Palestinians in the 1920's (Jewish authorities actually apprehended, and even executed some who were responsible).
In any event, all would be better solved if we could come up with a real, viable solution without the use of force.
Comment # 1 restored for clarity.
@branxoz
You presume to know what the creator thinks and you threaten one of the creations with wrath... you will surely rot in hell...hahahahaha
Iran has it's hands full baby sitting Assad. But Assad could still help Iran in an attack on Israel.
It's the U.S. fault for creating a monster in the middle east: Israel. We give them billions in military and other aid every year and give them unconditional support no matter how aggressive and criminal they are so It's no wonder they are rattling their swords at Iran (who we demonize).
We don't do this for no reason. Alexander Haig called Israel our "unsinkable aircraft carrier in the middle East". Through Israel we try to dominate the mineral rich (oil) gulf region.
These kinds of of situations usually end up in war sooner or later.
There are more and more of these reports coming out of Washington. It can only mean one thing. An Israeli attack is imminent and Washington is doing all it can public relations wise to dissuade Israel from action. If Israel carry out such an attack the US should stay neutral and only intervene if Iran start using "weapons of mass destruction" in their case either chemical or biological weapons as they no doubt do not possess nuclear warheads and even if they did they would not have configured them into missile warheads.
A better scenario would be to allow Iran to continue along their current path and sanctions will eventually cause the regime to fail or foment sufficient unrest to cause the mullah's to rethink their strategy. And should they develop nuclear warheads and sabre rattle enough, then a pre-emptive strike would be seen as prudent. Allow the situation to slowly ratchet itself up until intervention is warranted. One must keep in mind that Iran is seen as an enemy of the arab's. Quite likely Saudi Arabia would allow Israeli overflights en route to Iran. That in many quarters would be seen as complicity and unacceptable to other arab states. This whole thing could quickly balloon into a full scale middle eastern war with unknown consequences.
As a person who actually studies this part of the world, the threat of an offensive attack from Israel grows by the day. I work for the government with a lot of other intelligent people, and our concern isn't so much whether or not Iran will use a nuke. Most of us, and I stress most, don't believe Iran would ever use a nuke offensively. I'm not letting any cat out of the bag, there are a lot of senior analysts who have been published or on TV saying the same thing. They would use one the same way we would... that is to say, if someone launched a nuke at us we would launch several back in retaliation. However, there are some people I work with who spend just as much time or more on this as I do and their conclusions, even though they differ from mine, are just as well thought out. We do, however, agree that Iran is looking to build a nuclear weapon in the near future. It is also important to note that there is a minority of people in the field who actually disagree with us altogether and actually think Iran isn't aiming for weapons, though like I said, they are few. That said, clearly our counterparts in Israel have a much more dire analysis of what is going on in the region. Of course, if our capital city were in range of Iranian missiles, our analysis might be more dire as well.
What it really boils down to is whether or not you believe Iran is suicidal. Some believe Iran would gladly sacrifice itself if it means destroying or crippling Israel, hastening the return of the 12th Imam and what have you. What I and most others believe is that Iran is a rationally acting, self interested state. What that means is that basically, like any other state, they want to grow their power, influence, and wealth. They want to go from regional power to international player. Now, having a nuke takes military action against them almost completely off the table, certainly a full invasion like we did in Iraq. It ensures their security. To use a nuke though, well it would ensure a nuclear response. Their economy would be destroyed, Tehran would be gone, government wiped out, and all the modernizing, state building and work they have done the last few decades would be gone just like that. Iran isn't a country full of suicidal dim-wits. They would not benefit at all from such action. People in my field believe there is a good reason nobody has used a nuked anyone since WWII... because there is no winner. In today's world, with the economy of every nation so interdependent on others, there would only be losers in any nuclear strike. People were sure a nuclear strike was imminent during the Cuba missile crisis, and people thought for sure Pakistan was destined to strike India. They never did, because everyone would have lost.
Here is the scenario. It doesn't matter what country you are talking about. Be it Israel, Iran, Syria, etc. It will be a conventional war. However, when a country that possesses a nuclear bomb begins to lose, it will use the bomb rather than surrender. That is why most every country is afraid of Iran getting the bomb because they would use it in a heartbeat. Believe it.
Did you not even read the report or ever watch watch goes on? Iran supplied 40000 short range missiles to a known terrorist group to attack purely civilian targets. How do we know they? They ONLY HAVE ever attacked civilian targets! The monster you elude to (Israel) has only ever been in self preservation mode. Nor have they ever made public wanton statements about the hatred of their enemies, as the Iranian Imams have about Israel. But there' is no sense in talking facts with you as you are clouded with antisemitism, Iran is such a free and wonderful country, they have free healthcare, monthly paid vacations, early retirement... well, ikt they don't get snapped up at night and thrown into a government prison and beaten for making a joke about Muhammad... OH, yeah, Iran isn't the monster... what are you... 12?
Leave the HOLY WAR in The UNHoLY LAND. It has been going on now for ever. We need to stop playing big brother and let Israel grow up. Let them bomb each other. Our foreign policy is plain killing our Country. Israel needs to defend itself. Or go by the wayside. Defending them is not in my best interests. I have never even wanted to go over there. If IRAN attacks the USA then kicking off some of our bombs is in our best interest. But only if they ATTACK US.
If our country is pushing its weight around to bully other Nations. Or to help bully other nations against supposed threats. We are no better than the thugs starting the fight. The USA finishes the fight. If we get attacked. That is what makes us great.
a strike of his nature could very counterproductive to long term American interest in the area
..... The vast majority of Iranians ARE VERY PRO AMERICAN and want these radicals gone ..... the collateral damage done by this attack to the civilian pro western population could change that to a Anti American sentiment and harm our interest for the next fifty years ... in the entire region ...
Let the Saudis & the Israelis team up openly and do their own dirty-work .... The House of Saud is masterful at manipulating others to protect their interest, while they spend hundreds of billions to promote Wahabism (terrorism) across the world ... to insure their own security in their country ..
Lets step back and just watch this one ..... STAY OUT OF IT ..until its over!
I feel so sorry for you Israel haters. You are going to be so pissed and disappointed. Since the GOD of Abraham (Eloheim, Allah, GOD), the GOD of the Christians, Jews and Muslims, will protect Israel, HIS chosen people, from complete destruction, no matter how far away they turn from him. He will always maintain a remnant. And anyone or nation who curses Israel, will be damned for all eternity after their death. And it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not; Surprise!!!GOD does not rely on your belief. Oooops, you f@$%ed up!!! If he did, he wouldn't be much of a GOD now, would he? Why do you think the United States has been blessed for 200+ years, because we're so much smarter that the rest of the world? Why are we the most powerful country in the world, because we're just better? No, because we bless Israel, period. And GOD wants them protected, so he sent them a Big Brother to do just that. Try to defeat Israel as much as you want. You might as well jump up and down, screaming, for all the good it will do you. Have fun, cry-babies....Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Morons.
I will say this:
This article is based on "stale bread" (old intelligence) and these so called "experts" how many know Farsi? How many actually lived with Iranians to gain an insight into their psychology (figure out what they will do), with these so called US Iranian Experts playing War Games and developing scenarios based on what a Western Mindset and stale intelligence versus what the Iranians currently have?
In the article they don't even know the difference between "(75 Feet)" and the actual 75 meters. As both Israel and the US have both said that they cannot destroy something 75 meters (about 240 Feet) underground, and I have to agree, as the only previous weapon that could was the "Earth Penetrator" Nuclear Warhead of the US IRBM Pershing II designed to attack the USSR Underground C4I and the Ural Mountain Complex, and all of those were destroyed as well as the manufacturing techniques and TELs (Transportation Erection Launchers, don't blame me about that Erection thing that is what they are called for those in the Missile Community aka "Coneheads") as verified by the USSR.
As far as the numbers of Iranian TELs they just love to justify to the Iranian People why the Iranian People must suffer while all the Iranian Oil Wealth is spent on 21st Century Weapons Systems (the Iranian Parades shown on FARS News, as to why it is mandatory for a so called Iranian Weapons Expert to know Farsi.).
Go ask the Russian Federation about the Advanced Anti Aircraft Systems and ABMs that were sold to the Iranians. This is how they even detected the US Stealth MQ - 170. Like I said before the so called experts are basing their assessments on old information.
And to the posters that keep derailing about Israel versus Palestine. Go research Amim Al Husseini, Pan Arabic Plan, original intent of the Arab League of Nations, etc..
NYMike,
Talk with YOUR State Government about YOUR State's screwed up Infrastructure. As far as the "other Infrastructure" you want to chop the US Military Defense Budget just like President Clinton did before, so suffer the consequences for the US Army Corps of Engineers not having money to rebuild the US Infrastructure. example: President Clinton chopped the US Military Defense Budget so the US Army Corps of Engineers did not have any funds for their Long Term Projects/Programs; specifically the previously planned upgrades, retrofits, modifications, new construction, of the Levees at New Orleans (before Katrina), so during the US Congressional Katrina Hearings US Congress tried to blame the US Army Corps of Engineers and the President Clinton Budgets Cuts were produced and US Congress in a round about way of Lawyers and US Politicians (not admitting full fault) apologized to the US Army Corps of Engineers.
As far as arming and training Israel, otherway around. Ever since the US and UN Arms Embargoes and Sanctions during the Arab Israelis Wars (while the Arab League of Nations continued to buy New USSR Military Equipment to Attack Israel), Israel built their own Defense Industry that since it is for a matter of survival that is better than the current US Technology (why US Ally Saudi Arabia wants the US F-35 only if it includes the "Israelis Package"). For the longest time Israel has been interdicting the Islamic Jihadists, especially the Hamas Foreign Fighters that are exported Worldwide (money given to the Hamas Warlords), almost like Hezbollah. But, you don't "have any skin in the game" and saw the decreases of Hamas Foreign Fighters and Hezbollah here (Afghanistan) attempting to kill your arse.
Ask yourself Why the Arab League of Nations and the "Islamic World" cannot be happy with all this land (I know the answer, do you?):
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Israel_and_Arab_states_map_k.png
And, NYMike, quite a few of us after getting out of the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces, became Fire Fighters, Police, EMTs, etc. to continue to Serve the US Citizens. Many for some reason ended up at New York City, for who knows why, maybe because our mailing address was APO NY or NYC offered the best pay and benefits. This is why weeks after the 9/11 2001 Attacks we (US Military Teams attached to SAD/SOG) were nicknamed the "Vengence Force" and went into Afghanistan to overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Iranian supported Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government of Afghanistan that provided Osama Bin Laden and the Islamic Jihadists of Al Quada with Islamic Sanctuary and fully supported the Islamic Jihadist Training Camps.
JoeCal,
REALLY? "No Threat". Why do you think that President Obama backpeddled on not doing President Bush's Plan to deploy US ABMs to Europe. December 31, 2011 US ABMs to Romania. And if you think Iranian ICBMs bought by Iran from North Korea and shipped thru Bejing China 2010 cannot reach California, think again, two words: Earth Rotation. In 2011, Iran used one of these ICBMs to put a monkey into orbit 15x, proving that this is a true ICBM that uses Earth Rotation to traverse the distances to attack any location on Earth. SOS Clinton and the US Department of State seem to believe that this is a REAL Threat.
And joeyfromcali I already told you before FIX YOUR BANKRUPT ILLEGAL ALIEN HARBOR STATE OF CALIFORNIA. Stop spending a large part of your budget on Illegal Aliens Education, Health Care, Imprisonment of Violent Crimes Illegal Aliens. This does not include the amount YOU spend on Public Assistance, Food Stamps, etc.. And stop sponging off the State of Hawaii by automatically slapping a "Paradise Tax" on things shipped from California to the State of Hawaii using the excuse of the Jones Act, as it is the State of Hawaii, not the Territory of Hawaii anymore.
Oh, yes, your previous posts (other Topics) indicated how Anti US Military you are, SO Demand the Closures of All US Military Installations at the State of California. The Southeastern States and Hawaii said they want all the US Military Installations of California.
I believe we should do everything within our power to keep this powder keg from exploding, and think the best way to marginalize Iran's anti-Israeli rhetoric and threats is to put every form of pressure we can on Israelis and Palestinians to work out a peace agreement. If there is an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement in place, Iranian threats against Israel can NO LONGER be tolerated without repercussions by the U.N. and International community.
As is, I believe we should have Israel's back if they are preemptively attacked by Iran, but do our best to remain neutral if Israel strikes first !!
Israelis think "defense" every minute of their lives, and cannot compromise in lieu of worthless papers (Egypt) or empty promises (Gaza). They cannot afford to make the same mistake twice.
One strike in the US will take out Rhode Island. One strike in Israel will take out the entire country. A different way of thinking is in order for them - not OBAMAS way of thinking!
@Talon I agree with you that Iran would not use a nuclear weapon aggressively in the interest of self preservation. The last thing someone in power wants to do is see it vaporized (literally, figuratively, you figure it out). The real danger of an Iranian nuke is their contact with organizations that have no country, such as al-Qaida. Even if the establishment in Iran has no interest in selling nukes to terrorist organizations, chances are good that someone in the Iranian nuclear program has ties. This, in my opinion is the true threat, as an organization that does not fear retaliation is far more likely to do the unthinkable. To quote "The Peacemaker" -- "I don't fear the man who wants a hundred nuclear bombs, I fear the man who just wants one."
I'm not saying Iran should have a nuke, but I don't understand a preemptive attack by Israel. Iran already has plenty capability to attack Israel. If they were going to do it, they would do it.
Even just playing the odds, the damage that would certainly be done to Israel compared to the possibility that Iran would use a nuke against them later on. Doesn't add up. Not to mention this would be throwing gas on a fire of hatred towards Israel, which would just make security matters worse.
Cub T. wrote
If I was an overly fearful person, I'd fear the reality of what Israel seems very intent on doing, more than the fantasy of what Iran might do "in a heartbeat."
They have the capability to make pin-prick attacks on Israel with missles, but not to project its power in a conventional war. If it were to get nuclear weapons, the missles would be all that it needs.
I think I just read a post where someone said that a 'god' will protect Israel and we are gonna be cursed by this 'god' for not defending it or something.
LOL seriously ? What century is this again ?
Do people still let matters such as these be dictated by superstition and myth ?
Jewish zombies, talking snakes and magical fruit .... and this same idiot laughed at the end of his post like we are the crazy ones .....
Talon,
I agree. MAD actually works. People were absolutely sure that India and Pakistan would have killed each other off with nukes by now but they haven't. Has NK done in S. Korea?? No.
It's far different when nation state's have nukes as opposed to semi-nation state's like pakistan. You are a bit wrong in that iran is not a major world player. They are as they produce the third largest amount of oil in the world. This is always have at least three aces. Israel isn't even at the table in this regard.
If it was not for the religious nutbags on both sides, Israel and Iran would have been excellent friends and trading partners. "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery: none but ourselves can free our mind..."
Peace, brothers! Reject the warmongering cooks and profiteers!
Ever heard the saying "If someone believes they will die tomorrow, they will probably find a way to make it happen" ? Faith can be a lot like that. If you have a lot of people believe in something on faith, they may find a way to create the vary outcome spoke of in prophecy.
It dose not matter if you dont believe in god or "supernatural/superstitious" beliefs because there are millions and millions of others that do believe and thats enough people believing to stumble right into prophecy regardless of the true nature of the universe ( god or no god ).
Has obama apologised to Iran yet about the threat from Israel?
Israel is to the USA, what North Korea is to China.
Both countries are the aggressive, war-like problems children of the parent.
Please Israel, don't start WWIII to prevent WWIII
That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard! Getting real tired of posters that don't have a clue!
The best evidence for lack of a "God" is the Middle East. I am sick and tired of hearing about wars in the name of "God" or who "God" will protect.
Seldom,
Not yet, but I'm sure it's in discussion.
Mark,
I agree no comparison at all.
With Israel's technology any incoming missiles from Iran will be promptly shot down. Israel may allow a few to pass once the target and threat have been calculated so as not to give away too much information about their systems.
I would much rather see a peaceful solution. I want Iran to just tell the World what they would like for the World to do in order to make them happy and simply live and let live. I am mean really, what do they want that is worth all of this.
Where is American diplomacy with Iran? Nonexistent. The administration doesn't want to promote relations with Iran to avoid war. They are readying us through articles like this so they can war with Iran - through ally Israel. Iran is the newest boogie man on their agenda. Another setup against Iran via CIA and Israel to overthrow their government, not unlike in the 50's. The threat of nuclear weapons - in virtually every bit of information you read - says they don't have even one nuclear weapon - and in the latest news they are 'struggling' with nuclear technology, period. American politicians and Israeli officials can smell the oil, think they've got their people brainwashed and here we go again. All of our military should stand down. This is preposterous. Where are the anti-war crowd now?
This was the change and transparency everyone voted for.
This war will happen, it's already set, when is what we need to worry about. I would bet Israel strikes before the elections. It's no secret Israel doesn't favor our administration. High gas prices and a another war with Iran will most likely get Obama out of office.
This article and the many like it are all propaganda designed to drum up support for a baseless invasion of Iran. A very small percentage of people learn from history and facts apparently.
This is to Talon Konkel! THANK YOU for the LOGICAL INCITE on this MESS! I feel the exact way you do about the Nuclear Situation !
Great Post sir or madam,very informative and full of Common Sense!
While nuclear reactors have been bombed before it was always during the construction phase, with no nuclear fuel present. Now Israel is saying they will bomb active and fueled nuclear plants because Iran makes them nervous. This is preemptive war with the likelihood of millions of civilian casualties in whatever countries lie downwind at the time of an attack. If any nation is dangerously insane, it is Israel, not Iran.
Israel exists just like the prophets said that it would. It is interesting that not even atheist could avoid moving to Israel. Atheists were the zionist leaders in the move back to Israel.
I believe Israel attacking the Iranian crazies is more of a matter of "when" rather than "if". It is inevitable and our clueless and incompetent president is powerless to do anything to prevent this.
At a time when we need leadership we're saddled with the likes of Obama whose main priorities are imposing his version of social justice on the people with no concern at all for the constitutionality, or lack thereof of his edicts.
As for any future conflict with Iran, Obama may or may not intiate such conflict depending on which way he sees the political winds blowing.
Yes people... who drive your SUV, Super Cab Trucks etc. and tell me about that you
have no interests on what happens. You could change the story but you want it
both ways!
This isn't Israel threatening war, it is the American Media offering conjecture on how they might be able to do it. Notice, none of this is coming from Israel, it is coming from the American Government. Great things happen in an election year!
I believe the analysis of what Israel should or would do in the article is incorrect.
The fanatic running Iran has said that he wants to wipe Israel - and all Israelis - off the earth. That is a threat and Israel should take him serious. If I live next door to an idiot that is throwing rocks at my family and I - every time we go in the yard - I would attack and kill the fanatic doing that to us.
The article says Israel would send waves of missles at their underground nuclear facilities. Wrong thing to do! That would just slow down their progress for a couple of years and be a waste of those missles and bombs. Israel shouldn't waste those "waves of missles" or the bombs, on those underground operations. So what should Israel do?
Israel should send all those "waves of missles", aircraft with bombs and drones with bombs to wipe out every military facility, every government building, every facility were their Fanatic Islamist Leaders hang out and every missle launching site. The goal should be to kill every "leader" and as much military as possible. Once those have been wiped out they will not have any defense - and the Iranian "Hitler" as well as religious fanatics, will be gone.
The citizens, the people of Iran aren't going to want to start building nuclear weapons and they wouldn't have any military leaders or government leaders or fanatic religious leaders to force the citizens to create nuclear bombs.
Wars are not between citizens of any country - wars are between the leaders of the countries involved. So, the goal should be to destroy the leadership. Once that is done - people will get along together, generally.
Robert, from what I have read is Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map.Not only once , but twice. Now who is the insane one?
Iran seeks nuclear weapons in violation of the NPT for probably several reasons, not the least of which are that with those weapons an attack upon them by the USA or Israel or even Saudi Arabia becomes less likely, but also that the Iranian goal of restoring the caliphate with Iran's virulent strain of Shia Islamism at the head of it is made more likely. I agree with the above posts that Iran itself would likely not use a nuclear weapon in an offensive attack. The reply would be monumental, and devastating. But having a nuclear arsenal would allow Iran to behave even more erratic and threatening, and would create far more instabilty in the region, and therefore in the world, than present.
So Mr. Obama says Iran cannot be allowed to get nukes. Fine. But economic sanctions will not work unless all nations rigidly adhere to them, and we already know this is unlikely to happen. So without replacing the Iranian leadership with people willing to forego a nuclear arsenal the only answer, ultimately anyhow, will be an attack to defeat their capability. Personally I think assassinating scientists is appropriate, but I think military and political and religious leaders should be living in fear too. People in power tend to want to live and are usually okay with having others die on their behalf. Bring the worry of death to them and they might get right, and fast. But either way this will not end with Iran without nuclear weapons without some form, or several forms, of attack upon them.
The question is: Why are we receiving this information? They have this many missiles of this type and they are located at these places and these would be their likely targets? Who is benefiting from providing the public with this information? Something is very wrong here and it feels a bit like preparation for the Super Bowl. Make your bets now America!! Here are the likely players and this their attributes. This doesn't make any sense to me....Someone enlighten me....
Blahh blahh blahh
Much of what you are reading can be simple misdirection. Iran is at the extreme range of Israel's capabilities and Iran's facilities are both dublicated and hardened. A first strike that would be completely effective (as it must be to be worthwhile) is extremely doubtful at best.
The real problem is that long-range fighter-bomber attacks would necessitate small conventional warheads and they would never be able to do the job against hardened targets at extreme range. The IDF simp[ly does not have the air refuelinbg capacity to sustain a large protracted attack with out extensive US participation. And it is not the kind of participation that can be picked up on the fly --- it would have to be arranged far in advance. Irsael simply placed too many of its eggs in a nuclear basket for a situation like this.
If I were a military planner (and I once was, many, many years ago) I would feint against Iran's nuclear facilities and then go after their oil refineries. They are actually Iran's Achilles Heel. Iran has 9 refineries that together can only eke out a bare 40% of the refinery products --- gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, kerosene, etc --- that Iran uses. The rest is bartered for by trading crude oil for refined products. Of those 9 refineries, 4 are extremely small and can be discounted. The other five are about 80% plus of Iran's refinery capacity.
If these 5 refineries are struck, along with key ancilliary installations --- POL storage, pipelines, pumping stations, transshipment facilities, and key wellheads --- Iran's economy would grind immediately to a halt. Iran woiuld be unable to close the Straits of Hormuz in retalliation, because they would absolutely have to have it in order to receive imports of refinery products (paid for with oil exported throuigh the same straits.) If the strikes got much of the POL storage the economic effect would be almost immediate with less than 2 weeks supplies of POL products to sustain both the military and the economy.
While nuclear sites are well-defended and hardened, oil refineries are not. POL depots are not. Pipelines are not. Transshipment facilities are not. Tankers are not. Sink one Iranian tanker or one foreign tanker with Iranian oil or gasoline, and that ends Iran's seaborne oil trade.
Israel's anti-missile defenses are largely public relations. The basic physics poroblems are so difficult that any truly effective system is too expensive to deploy and and deployable system is likely to be very little effective. Remember the Patriot missiles from the First Gulf War? After-action analysis concluded that the Patriots had exactly zero hits on incoming Iraqi SCUDs. Most broke up because of poor design and construction. They would certainly get some hits (with the debris falling on Israel) but anti-missile systems are too easily overcome by simply what planners call the "n+1 Rule." If you can shoot down "n" missiles, I just send n+1. Iran would launch its marginal missiles first and its more accurate missiles in a close secondary wave. This is old strategy.
Israel is doing some serious sabre-rattling, but the truth remains that most of Iran is beyond Israel's effective operational range.
The problem with allowing Iran to complete their program to where they have the capability for strategic nuclear weapons is it will be too late to correct. And Saudi Arabia and Turkey have already said if Iran achieves nuclear ability, they will call in their chits from Pakistan and do the same. That is not an area I want a bunch of nuclear weapons at hand.(I think that reality makes even Russia a little worried)
I also completely agree.... an excellent insight by Talon Konkel (#2.3) on this volitile situation!
It doesn't take a country to launch a nuclear missile. All it takes is one mad man to push the button.
"Talks Cheap" ..... and there is a history of a lot of "Woofers" in the region! The real trick is identifying the "woofers" from the really dangerous folks ..
Does anyone really think Israel should sit back and let a self proclaimed enemy bent on their total destruction develop the weapons they need to do it!!! The Iranian leadership has stated publicly, multiple times that they do not believe that Israel has any right to exist and that it is their mission to wipe Israel off the map. Does anyone really expect the Israelis to sit back and let them develop nuclear weapons to do it with.
The recent Iranian releases regarding their work on their Fordo nuclear enrichment facility makes it pretty clear that they are looking at more than civilian nuclear power. Their claim that the 20% enriched uranium they are producing is only for a research reactor is an obvious lie. This is because they have already enriched many time the amount of uranium needed to fuel this research reactor to this higher level. The only reason for this massive production of 20% enriched uranium is as a precursor to further enrichment to weapons grade. The IAEA estimates that Iran has enough uranium stock to make enough highly enriched uranium to fuel approximately 15 good sized nuclear weapons.
The Iranian efforts towards installing new generation centrifuges capable of far more rapid enrichment of uranium also clearly indicates their plans to develop nuclear weapons. Since they already have far more 20% enriched uranium than they need for peaceful purposes, the only reason for upgrading a facility designed for higher level enrichment is to facilitate production of weapons grade material. Once they have these new centrifuges installed, the time they will need to produce weapons grade material will be uncomfortably short. It ill be to the point that they could have the material produced before we could plan and execute a strike on the facility to try and stop them. In addition, this facility was built well underground, making it very hard to take out and also clearly indicating its military purpose. Peaceful nations do not build facilities like this deep underground and deny IAEA inspectors access to the facility if their purpose is peaceful. In addition, if they really had nothing to hide (i.e. were not working on weapons) they would let the IAEA inspectors into any of their facilities any time they wanted. The fact that they won't clearly tells me they are hiding something.
It is time to stop screwing around and allowing the Iranians to stall with the hollow promise of talks. None of the many rounds of talks to date have resulted in any progress on getting them to stop. They have no intention of changing their plans to develop nuclear weapons and only military action will stop them.
Oh really? Looks like we don't have to do anything after all. Iran is attacking themselves!!!
Is proofreading a thing of the past?
By the Authority Vested in Me I Hereby Anoint david-475776 post 2.9 and Chris-749391 post 2.39 with Water Drawn From the Well of Monticello the Title of Supreme Expert.
You two work this out. I still have Jane's to read and there are mosquitoes at my windows, yes in February when the temperature dropped to about 30 degrees F. last night. I will tend to them with my double barrel shot gun.
The Dome of the Rock will be destroyed in the Iran attacks and Israel will rebuild the Temple on the Mount.
so, a college professor of "diplomacy" here fantasizes about missiles flying over there, and coupled with speculation from "current and former u.s. officials speaking on the condition of anonymity" over their "fears" that israel "could possibly" launch a pre-emptive strike...would somebody please quit asking the bush/cheney gang their "anonymous" opinions? either identify yourself as someone whose opinion actually matters or STFU!!! let's see, i've got that deadline today, i think i'll flip a coin; heads, israel may strike iran, anonymous sources say...or, tails, iran may have a nukular weapon aimed at israel...hmmm, maybe i'll smoke another bowl, have some cheetos...wonder what kim is wearing today???
David,
I read your long drawn out boring story that was full of crap... You have not kept up with technology, we and Israel have Bunker Busters that will penetrate the depth needed to take out what the Iranians have... Please before you acuse others of not keeping up with time/techno intel be sure you do yourself... As Bugs Bunny would say, "Ehhh, What a Maroon.."
Colorblind -
We are talking about a room full of professional speculators [probably paid by the media to get a story and perpetuate it for $$] who are using best estimate data regarding the capabilities of the two potential warring parties. msnbc and any other news outlet involved are the entities that benefit because folks like you, me and everyone else here read their continuous articles about the issue. Just look at the amount of discussion it generates. This means eyes on their website and dollars in their pocket.
That said it does not mean these speculators are wrong or right. I believe no one knows exactly what will transpire or what an eventual outcome will be. Politics aside - israel can beat the crap out of Iran in a street fight - hands down. The bigger problem that exists is just how far are the US, Russia, and China prepared to go to protect their national interests in the Gulf region - that could become a potential wider war.
Countries have been manipulating the media to their own advantages politically and militarily since ink landed on rice paper and papyrus. It's all part of the 'Great Game'
Ah, political posturing. So, what is the adequate amount of time to threaten war before you actually do it these days? You have to build up just the right amount of fear; make the people think it's the last resort, even though it was your first. Wag the dog, wag the dog...
People of Islam stop your obsessive praying for the destruction of Israel. It's been 64 years and your Allah has not yet shown you any favour. You are regressing into the abyss with all of your hate.
It's the U.S. fault for creating a monster in the middle east: Israel. We give them billions in military and other aid every year and give them unconditional support no matter how aggressive and criminal they are so It's no wonder they are rattling their swords at Iran (who we demonize).
We don't do this for no reason. Alexander Haig called Israel our "unsinkable aircraft carrier in the middle East". Through Israel we try to dominate the mineral rich (oil) gulf region.
These kinds of of situations usually end up in war sooner or later.
Not to mention, Russia, China & Pakistan.
Nothing like the prospect of a nuclear dead zone in the middle east.
Though on the upside, I guess we wouldn't have to worry about the middle east anymore.
The silver lining.
Even in the Iran business, we wil be burnt more badly!
Russia and China know how to duck when required.
In Iraq we burnt hands!
In Afghanistan it is becoming worse.
Those who can't handle simple Quran burning riots in Afghanistan are busy preparing for Iran and Syria wars!
When warmongers out number those opposed to wars and are powerful, those opposing wars like I can't do much.
May be: our places are in a larger Occupy Wall Street!
....nor the global economy as it would be t*ts up with no oil coming out of the middle east. The US could/would get by but Europe, Japan, China etc couldn't.
Intelligent and thoughtful as always Jonathon, excellent post!
So exactly what is in our interests to intervene? What would we actually lose? If they bombed each other.
What the middle east may pose a Nuclear threat? Don't they now? Pakistan is Nuclear and they got kinda pissy with us over Osama. We survived the cold war with Russia and these smaller countries are supposed to scare me. Please one Nuclear bomb and Iran is (GONE)
jungleboogie: Thanks sir!
But those opposed to wars for at least a decade like us are declining and warmongers as during Iraq wars are taking over with shrill shrieks and screams!
Jungleboogie,
Do you honestly think that this will only remain contained to the "Middle East"?
The Russian Federation and the Chinese have already said that they will side with Fundamentalist Islamic Iran.
This is like the Russian Federation and Chinese playing Chess and the US does not even know what Chess is.
It has been a Strategic Goal of the Russian Federation and Chinese to get the US and US Allies out of their Backyards (Resources) of the Middle East, Africa, Asia, etc..
USSR Fully supplying the Arab League of Nations during the Arab Israelis Wars, while demanding the US and UN place Arms Embargoes and Sanctions against US Ally Israel. USSR Fully supplying Fundamentalist Islamic Iran during the Iran Iraq Wars. USSR 40th Army Occupation of Afghanistan. USSR Fully supplying Iraq after the US backstabbed US Ally Iraq (was not funny at all I was at US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars after the Israelis attacked the Iraqis Nuclear Facility with Aircraft bought from the US, with the Iraqis shaking their fingers at us). And as against President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy, I will say this (like General McChrystal did to get his First President Obama Letter of Reprimand), the Russian Federation and Chinese are fully supporting Fundamentalist Islamic Iran and using Fundamentalist Islamic Iran as "Proxy Fighters", with Fundamentalist Islamic Iran then using the Worldwide Islamic Jihadists as their "Proxy Fighters" based on the tons of weapons, muntions, etc. captured here (Afghanistan).
Ok, forgot again all that crap that happened at Africa thru USSR Backed Cuba. Russian Federation backed Fundamentalist Islamic Iran's involvements thru their support of the Islamic Jihadists at the Sudan, Somalia, etc..
joeyfromcali,
Go research SALT, START, the INF Treaty, then do the basic math (subtraction of US Capabilities); then tell me about the US Strategic Nuclear Capabilities (also if you really want knowledge research the W-Types (Warhead Models) and calculate the effects). Oh, yes, forgot the ABM Treaty (as to what the US does not have, and what the Russian Federation has been selling to make big profits to anyone that can afford their current generation of 21st Century ABMs). The US and US Allies have been stagnating, and the Russian Federation and Chinese have been advancing exponentially (dragging their ally Fundamentalist Islamic Iran with them).
And it does not matter what opinions are, look at the Results to date of what Fundamentalist Islamic Iran has gained via their "Proxy Fighters": Muslim Brotherhood Egypt, Al Quada Yemen, Al Quada Iraq and the Shiites, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Hezbollah, Southern Turkey thru the Kurdistanis PKK HPG KGK, Al Sheebah, Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, Pakistanis Taliban, Army of Islam Pakistan, etc..
David: You are missing one key element. It must be politically and strategically necessary for superpowers to firmly take sides in an actual war over Iran and Israel. Saying "we will side with them" and actually do something about it are two totally different things. Strategically, hands would need to be forced, all other options would have to be off the table, and diplomacy would have to go out the window.
Politically, the will of the people would have to support anything over and above a few planes and missiles in that region. The international community already is against Iran over the nuke, and public support for Israel would take a huge hit if they attack Iran preemptively.
Tell that to the US Politicians, their Restrictions placed on the US Military here (Afghanistan). Like the Rules of Engagement changed by President Obama's Political Appointees Holbrooke and Eikenberry to: "Cannot shoot until shot". And the requirements for the US Military to hire US Contractors instead of doing things "In House", result the US Contractors subcontract to the Afghans to do the Burn Pits (that's right the Afghans started the fires that burned the Holy Korans (Qurans)).
Less than 3 months and no more Farsi, Arabic, Pashtu, Dari, Islam, extreme hardship of living with the locals, US Military Asymmetric Warfare, years of consecutive tours, food born diseases, in months US Politicians undoing our work of decades; as most of us finally get to go back on Retirement again, this time no more Recalls to Active Duty, as "Too Old".
Also the Russian Federation will NOT let the US get involved with their Ally Syria (as to why they deployed the Russian Federation Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov Battlegroup to the Russian Federation Port of Tartus, Syria). Also like I stated before it is Al Quada Syria as Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency) as trained by Fundamentalist Islamic Iran, that started the "Revolution" at Syria as well as the other Islamic Jihadists did to overthrow the US Allies of the Middle East as the "Arab Spring" with SOS Clinton finally reading her own US Department of State Documents:
Clinton: Arming Syrian rebels could help al Qaeda
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57386279/clinton-arming-syrian-rebels-could-help-al-qaeda/?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.0
add to post #3.9.
Some things left out.
Like USN Aircraft Carrier Strike Groups, the Russian Federation Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov Battlegroup is Nuclear Strike Capable. During a International Joint Military Exercise the Blue Forces (US and US Allies, F-18s, F-22s, etc.) were wiped out by the Red Forces (SU-33s, MiGs.), the ratios of surface warfare ships and boats (submarines) was similar; not considered was that the Chinese (PLAN) did not participate on the side of the Red Forces.
The US Department of State Documents are developed based on US Intelligence Agencies, the International Intelligence Community (US Allies), and this information is then independently verified by US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces thru Special Reconnaissance (and you wonder why we will be glad to finally go back on Retirement, doing special reconnaissance is like sticking your nuts between two bricks and just waiting for someone to slam the bricks together; and no that is NOT "Classified" as all the Nations Counter Intelligence already know).
Jack Colton,
I did not forget the Politics nor what is going on at the Russian Federation or China.
Someone else already stated what that is at post#1.3 (that verifies somethings indicated by the US Department of State).
And how about reading this, then tell me what Fundamentalist Islamic Iran does not have as "a few planes and missiles":
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/03/9928679-iran-2009-to-2012-strait-of-hormuz
And do not tell me I don't know how to count, see bottom of post #3.10.
I really do enjoy reading some of these post. Very informative BUT PLEASE
cut out the superstitious rhetoric .... Pleeeeaaassseeeeeee
LOL seriously ? What century is this again ?
Do people still let matters such as these be dictated by superstition and myth ?
Jewish zombies, talking snakes and magical fruit ....
I'm really starting to believe the American Taliban (aka X-tian right) are to be feared more than any terrorist organization or rogue nation.
david: I was with you people and with you even now.
With Iraq wars, for which there were no strong and sane reasons, we are all in the same boat.
Most of us suffered economically very badly and you people thank you stars every day that you people are alive or not injured badly!
I am dead against Iran and Syria wars especially after watching the catastropic results of the dirty jobs for Saudi Arabia, oil companies and their lobbyists again and again!
I will add more as we move on these war business!
David: "More than a few planes and missiles" meant more than light, obligatory, surface level involvement. If Iran and Israel do end up openly skirmishing with actual weapons -- and there is a wide gap between what that actually can mean, you know damned well every other country is going to weigh the risk versus return of how much they get involved. The United States shooting down missiles and planes headed towards Israel, isn't the same as the United States bombing targets within Iran.
Point being, there is a long road to actual REAL involvement by the superpowers. China isn't automatically going to say "well, I know the United States is a strategic economic ally, in which we have significant financial investment, but we are going to go to war with them over someone else's fight."
@David,
Most of your "analysis" is just plain BS.
1) There is no monolithic "Russia and China". Russia has plenty of oil and would like to see the price of crude high, but China has no oil and would rather see it low. Both countries will NEVER side with Muslims for the simple reason that they each have their own very troublesome Muslim minorities.
2) Even discussing such things as Russian Carrier Task Forces is a joke. The Russians have never been able to projhect power with their navy and were never able to employ aircraft carriers effectively. Syria also has no particular strategic importance to Russia. They kinda like the idea of a secular Arab ally on Turkey's border, but that is about as far as it goes. Assad has a big bullseye on him and the Russians well know it. They will let Junior go down in a heartbeat. I heard all the same things from the hawks when Russia lost Cuba, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, and even India. The Russians have lost country after country from their hegemony without a whimper. Syria, with no oil is less than worthless to Russia.
3) The US actually gave and sold more arms to Iran during the Iraq-Iran War than the USSR did. We played both sides of that fence, supplying the equipment to make military gas to the Iraqis while selling Hawk missile and airfcraft parts to the Iranians. Our very duplicity is one reason the Iranians hate us so much. They saw how we treated our "ally" Iraq. LOL
4) McCrystal was fired because he was not up to the job. He "wrote the book" then couldn't "handle the hook" as they say in the Navy. His concern about Russian involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan was an excellent example of why he was fired --- he was so focused on Russia and China that he completely "missed" the Iranians. In fact, the ONLY military player who was right about the region was Sec/Gen Colin Powell who predicted, at the end of the First Gulf War, exactly what is now in process in Iraq and Afghanistan.
5) You throw around a lot of terms that you obviously do not understand and a lot of "analysis" that simply is waaaaay off the beam. You have just read waaay too many potboilers. You have to remember --- we lost in Vietnam. We just about lost in Grenada and Panama (those two cost us over 300 senior military officers --- "bureaucratic casulties" they call them), we turned tail and ran in Lebanon and Somalia, we lost in Iraq, and we are badly losing in Afghanistan. While Bosnia was a qualified success, you hear very little about it in terms of lessons learned. So what makes you think we can do anything worthwhile militarily in Iran? Stupidity is keeping on making the same mistakes and expecting different results. You talk about asymmetric warfare as though it was a particular type of warfare. It isn't. Asymmetric warfare is nothing more than one side trying to concentrate its forces where the other side is weakest. It isn't just guerilla warfare or terrorists, but is ANY force inequity. It was assyumetric when the Nazi's used mobility instead of brute force. It was asymmetry when the US exacted retribution against Japan in WWII. (The asymmetry was that Japan had to defend every island while we could concentrate our forces on any one we chose --- an automatic lose/lose/lose for Japan.)
Iran is a very sticky situation. The country is much, much larger than Iraq. And much more dangerous. If is essentially homogenuous and therefore very nationalistic and cohesive. The US has given Iran many, many valid reasons to hate us. We continue the folly of saying that "friends" of the US play by one set of rules and everyone else by another. But you don't see any IDF uniforms in ouyr military adventures around the world. They are not our ally in any meaningful way except to drag us into their situations as a kind of "big brother."
Our military is waaaay work out and in need of refit and replacement as well as just plain old rest. We simply have no reserves, even with the withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan mostly completed or underway. Too much reliance on units like SEALs is going to be an eventual disaster. While they are currently on a roll, their luck historically, has always been very spotty --- whether it was the Green Berets or the OSS or the amateurish militarized CIA --- the tactics of disruption have had limited effects and most of that in the media.
But worst of all ultimately is that the US has put far too many of its eggs in the high-tech basket. It has caused us to forget Clauswitz's admonition that "Nothing counts except one man with one rifle." We have engaged in a high-tech militarization that has actually become out Achilles Heel. Military planners call it the "Piper Cub Effect." This is where one side has a limited number of very high-tech military toys, but so few in actual numbers that the Law of Small Numbers starts to take effect. The classic example is when you take one F-35, as an example, and model it against the number of Piper Super Cubs that the same dollar expenditure would have bought. An F-22 can carry up to 6 AAM's and avionics. A Piper Cub can only carry one. But if you send the several thousand Cubs against the F-35, the FG-35 will always lose. Recently someone suggested that we paint our aircraft carriers bright yellow to signify what sitting ducks they are, especially in the Gulf region.
And lest you think that I am anti-military, I was a military intelligence analyst for over 10 years, and a senior North Korean analyst for a time after that. I am a Vietnam vet (PH and BS(V)) and watched this country struggle with losing that war and playing blame games. Unless someone comes up with something new, we are not capable of invading and/or prevailing in Iran and they well know it. We have been trying out to figure out belligerants like North Korea for five decades and simply have not made any progress in finding a way to fight them and win.
last time ''weapons of mass destruction'' was the excuse to attack. americans won't buy into that twice----(fool me once ---etc) sooo back to the mushroom cloud ploy-----it worked for bush. israel is our puppet and they will attack if we give them the nod. all their weapons are supplied by the U.S. the majority of iranians are young (under 30 ) and not religious extremists (actually very pro american)---here's our chance to turn them against us too. attacking iran is monumentally stupid for the us-----totally irresponsible. washington needs to take a strong stand with israel and prevent this colossal mistake.
Russia and China would not risk World War 3 in a global economy. China would not risk there economy that is dependent on the United States to start a war with us. Could emerge into a cold war but, not a single shot would be fired on either side. Russia would supply the Iranians with weapons and the UN plus Nato would condemn the move but, the Russians have shown that they could careless what the world community thinks. The Russians talk tough because they wanted Putin to get reelected they also would not risk another World War with the internal dissension within their own borders.
israel attacks Iran and Iran retaliates with devastating forces which sees the end of israel.
No, it goes like this Henrich: Israel attacks Iran, Iran retaliates against Israel, Syria & Hezbollah attack Israel, U.S. attacks Syria, Russia & China mobilize forces to Iran & Syria, nukes start flying, then after lusting for the war you suddenly realize your kids are gonna die, along with everyone's kids, and you hope for a direct blast in your city so you can be one of the "LUCKY" ones.
And with your dying breath, you'll still blame Obama or Bush.
Israel ignites wars and then hides!
Israel will never be conquered again my friend. It wont happen. The U.S. needs to stay on the winning side. Even if that means WW3. We should do our best to prevent it, but fight when we must.
God will defend Israel for he has chosen her as his own.
They killed the God you talk about.
Mike, do you know how ridiculous you sound when you say God has chosen Israel as his own?
Israel would go nuclear before they were done.
@#4.3
Thank you Mike. This is what I also believe to be true.
Jonathan, "Israel hides"??? Where do you think it can go? [Wouldn't it be nice if it could have an invisibility shield!]
Mike, the people ruling Israel are nut-jobs. Let those people in the mid-east bomb the crap out of each other. Any U.S. politician who encourages or supports (or spends our tax money) for a old/new war should be tried for treason and crimes against humanity. As a true American I feel that our problems start and stop at our borders.
You forget Israel has nukes? If you don't believe me ask Former president John F. Kennedy. Oh wait you can't, he got assasinated shortly after refusing to let Israel have nukes....hmmmmm..I wonder?
I feel so sorry for you Israel haters. You are going to be so pissed and disappointed. Since the GOD of Abraham (Eloheim, Allah, GOD), the GOD of the Christians, Jews and Muslims, will protect Israel, HIS chosen people, from complete destruction, no matter how far away they turn from him. He will always maintain a remnant. And anyone or nation who curses Israel, will be damned for all eternity after their death. And it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not; Surprise!!!GOD does not rely on your belief. Oooops, you f@$%ed up!!! If he did, he wouldn't be much of a GOD now, would he? Why do you think the United States has been blessed for 200+ years, because we're so much smarter that the rest of the world? Why are we the most powerful country in the world, because we're just better? No, because we bless Israel, period. And GOD wants them protected, so he sent them a Big Brother to do just that. Try to defeat Israel as much as you want. You might as well jump up and down, screaming, for all the good it will do you. Have fun, cry-babies....Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Morons.
Israel has as much right to defend itself as any other nation. Some here say we should not defend Israel. Well, maybe they shouldn't defend us anymore either. Do you realize that Israel is our one true ally over there??? This country is really on its way out. But I saw this coming years ago, watching my older(what about meeee) sister and her mee mee friends and realizing that they would be decision makers eventually, and those days are here. Whatever happens happens. We only have ourselves to blame. I believe God will protect and defend Israel and I believe God will turn HIS back on the nations who turn their backs on Israel. If you don't believe this, that is your choice, but I do believe it (my choice). Time will tell all. And we think things are bad now???
Good Luck All..We are going to need it.
swej, you are a BIGOT !, so how is God evil ? it sounds to me that you are the EVIL one, satan ! i don't know if you are an aethiest or buddhist or what the hell, but i guess that you worship the devil !, you IDIOT !!!!!!!
Get your head out of the sand. Israel will never be completely defeated! It's in The Holy Bible like it or not! And the 12 IMAM who muslims are looking for will simply be either the False Prophet or the Anti-Christ. We are not talking Jesus Christ here people, and one day soon you will see. You can't stop Bible prophesy, it is happening all around you. The Bible is as up to date as tomorrow's newspaper, you can take that to the bank!
Jesus Christ is coming soon, but the next time he steps foot on this earth it won't be like the 1st time in a lowly manger! Read the book of Revelations it's brutal! WAKEUP PEOPLE TIME IS SHORT!
Mike, Your Bible teacher is only teaching one of many understandings... I personally hate religion... Its kinda like a penis.. Half the world has one but most others don't want it shoved down their throat.. But, an uncle who raised me was a non stop ranting baptist and allot of churches we traveled to taught Christianity like this... The Jews lost their covenant with God, that is if you believe in Jesus... If your preacher is a Zionist, (many are in this generation) he will tell you that I speak of replacement theology.. which in turn can only mean Christ was not the messiah if you read the book... But you are correct in Jesus eyes if you believe God will protect the children of Israel (Israel being the relationship with God)...(its a personification, like the USA used to be called Columbia and Britain was Britannia) You need to try once for the heck of it to read the bible with Christs point of view. If you accept Christs word and change Israel to our relationship instead of a land in Canaan it will take on a completely different meaning when it comes to Israel.. This was the meaning for 2000 years till the Jews tricked you this last generation.. Why do you think Christians persecuted Jews for 2000 years?.. Christ said they were the pharisees in the bible.. He said their father was the devil.. Christ said in the bible that they are liers and murders.. Not me,, its Gods book and I didn't write it.. So don't be getting in my butt about it all ok.. I'm just saying what anyone can read for themselves.. The Jews claim to have only wrote the first five books of the bible and Israel does not even come up till the 11th book.. True Jews follow Moses written word, but these Orthodox Jews like Mr. Gingrich converted to only believe in an oral version called the Talmud. You should read the Talmud if you have not and see what they think of you... Its not very nice towards everyone else.. Worse yet, The idiots believe their messiah will be a man who will make the great war, rebuild the temple, enter it, slay the lamb and come out as a messiah... Sound familiar? It should if you listened to Christ because he claimed that person would be the Antichrist... That the west will invade the east in this great war.. Christ claimed the false Jews would come in the end days and make this war.. Ask a traditional Jew or a reformed Jew what they call Orthodox Jews... Yep, false Jews.. All I wonder is could that man that makes the never ending war large, the war that has no defined enemy, also known 40 years ago in the churches I attended as a war on terror, could that maybe Mr. Nutty-yahoo? The bible said he will originate from a place near modern day Kenya.. American Christians 45 years ago at those churches in my youth and also historically according to them figured it would never be an American leader because that leader is only born American, but maybe that's why lately so many Christians have wanted to know exactly where Obama was really born.. I gotta admit, its weird after all these years America would have elected a man with a name like Barrack Hussein Obama.. heck I still cant even spell it.. Hope I got it right. Don't sound very American to me... I tend to agree with others here though who think your not thinking right Mike if you feel safe because a book says God will protect you.. That did not work out to well for city of Troy... I also do not believe people should be uprooted from their homes after 2000 years because someone claims God gave them a land... Sounds like a bunch of religious fanatics to me... As for oil, do you know Mr. Desiel invented an engine that was designed to run on the fuel of its day known as white fuel? That fuel is straight hemp seed oil.. I support Ron Paul because I want the Federal government out of my states affairs.. I wish to provide my country with clean renewable energy from my state.. It can still go straight into a desiel engine to this very day.. George Washington said in the papers at the Library of Congress that we should protect the hemp seed.. I think he had the right idea.. But the Fed and many fools say.. "Stay away from that evil plant".. I sure hope some Americans join the revolution and come around to supporting the champion of our constitution.
Jonathan said above (post #4.2) that "Israel ignites wars"... , which wars did they ignite? ..."then hides", where and how do they hide?
Ok, I would like to make two points here. One, I don't believe God will back ANYONE who chooses to bring violence to another. God doesn't choose sides in a war, because it chooses peace. If we decide to go against God, please don't do it with the arrogant belief that God will direct your missiles up the other side's ass. My God is a loving being who will take care of us in the afterlife, provided we prove ourselves worthy in this life. And any Judeo-Christian who claims otherwise needs to take a new look at the ten commandments. I think the one about THOU SHALT NOT KILL has been forgotten in this discussion. To be honest, though, I'm not that strongly religious (spiritual, yes...religious, no) and some of the comments on this post affirm my beliefs. I just can't get behind any religious group that claims to follow a loving, benevolent God who will aid them in their quest to destroy those who choose a different path, it's simply hypocritical. I'm talking to you, every major religion.
Point two...I think it was Napoleon who said "God favors those with the best artillery." Think on it.
livia and roger white: Some are back to their Iraqi wars business in Iran and Syria.
If I write details on my post, you people will contest me again as if I have done a crime!
Why not study 1991 and 2003 Iraqi wars itself? They are recent ones.
I made a little understatment.
When things become too hot in Israel, many Israelis run to the US and other places too!
@knightangler... I noticed you said America was blessed for 200 plus years.. True.. Christ knows what freedom is, and so did our founders.. But today most claim our Constitution is out dated.. That its a living document that is to be changed.. That we don't want to go back to the days of the wagon or some crap like that.. Christ was the prince of peace, not the prince of war... But where was Israel the land before the 1940s in this 200 plus years of blessing you speak of? Why had God blessed us before the 40s? During the first 158 years of our blessed country? Yes we were blessed by Israel because Israel is the Christians relationship with God. No need for Jewish sacrafices anymore.. Salvation for all who ask.. The new covenant the Jews had lost belonged to us now.. Blessed because of the willingness and ability to stay Christian and keep the devils children out (the "synagogue of Satan" as Christ called them Jews in your bible)... But look at us now... If your such a believer in God, you should ask for the miracle he provides.. The ability to make the blind to see.
Hey, Bible thumpers! It's fiction,fantisy,La-La thinking from La-La land! They aren't any chosen people unless you are referring to our Senate and Congress. They are the chosen scum that is bringing ruin to America.
Hey, Bible thumpers! It's fiction,fantisy,La-La thinking from La-La land! They aren't any chosen people unless you are referring to our Senate and Congress. They are the chosen scum that is bringing ruin to America.
Moses traveled in the desert looking for the promise land and had a relationship with God to the point he received the ten commandments.
The Jews crusified Jesus as a false teacher along with those who taught Christianity, all Jews. The rest of us finally received salvation as gentials when they were instructed to spread the word, today this is known as the Catholic Church. Christians who truly follow the teachings of Jesus Christ would never persecute anyone, it is against the direct teachings of Jesus.
The Bible can only be understood with the help of the Holy Spirit. The 12 men that followed Jesus made mistakes all the time, as does the Church, as does everyone. Both in the understanding of Jesus and his teachings and in everyday life. That is why you must always remember to never put your faith in man, but in God. At the base of almost all religion is the teachings of peace, love, and understanding towards all people. The false teachings are the ones of hate, they are false interpretations of those religions.
Jesus was Jewish and when he spoke of the evil his people were doing he was speaking to Jews. The salvation was for the Jews. The rest of us were included when they were told to spread the word to the gentiels so they may be saved.
When you were a participant, then tell me how things happened. I wrote this in the third person based on Firsthand experience instead from my point of view:
Iraq:
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/10/17/8369272-iraq
Iran 2009 to 2012 Strait of Hormuz:
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/03/9928679-iran-2009-to-2012-strait-of-hormuz
Jungleboogie,
It is too late for Israel, the US, and US Allies to do anything. see link Iran 2009 to 2012 Strait of Hormuz, above. And post#1.30. When US Ally Saudi Arabia was screaming for US and or Israelis Intervention against Fundamentalist Islamic Iran the window of opportunity was already closing.
As far as this getting completely out of control, you might want to watch movies, 1984 movie, Countdown to Looking Glass and 2011 movie, The Divide. And these scenarios still do not count the Chinese on the side of Fundamentalist Islamic Iran or what they will do to the US Allies at Asia while all this is occurring like Aussie 2010 movie, Tomorrow When the War Began (unlike the Aussies, I think the Chinese will just launch a couple of ICBMs and call it a day, instead of invading, so that they can concentrate on protecting their "investments" of the Middle East (Oil) and their High Tech Mineral Wealth Mining Operations here (Afghanistan).), as an indicator the Chinese are already rebuilding the southern Oil Silk Road to transport all of this back to China.
OMFG listen to the religious non sense being spewed on this thread.
Really people ? Talking snakes, magical fruit and jewish zombies ?
Aren't you nutjobs too old to be believing in 3000 yr old goat herder camp fire stories ?
What a waste of reasoning and rationale.
Who put this information out there and why? Who is benefiting from telling us what kind of missiles and their limitations and likely targets? Who has the most missiles and where they are located? Who is trying to incite us? It is working, but, why? Is this a political test of public opinion? Why are you people arguing over who would win or get involved in this massive war? Why aren't you questioning why there is all this information provided about two countries that have been saber rattling for months/years? Is it imminent now? If so, who is trying to prepare us for another war and why? Bookmakers, start your engines....Place your bets early so you can get in on the big money!!! We have no need to know this specific information. Something stinks and the fact that you people are arguing over Israel's right to exist vs Iran's hate for non Christians is very disturbing because none seem to be questioning the intent of the dissemination of this information.
Well that, and because North America was an underpopulated continent with incredible natural resources, protected by two vast oceans, and a very wise government was created by men of the Enlightment.
Jonathan: Are you running for political office? Do you hold one now?
Your response was about as much a non-answer as I have ever seen.
Should you provide details, I would not consider it a crime. Quite the contrary, as a History and Public Communication teacher, I welcome research and details. It is the broadly sweeping, unfounded characterizations I disdain.
I notice that #4.3 was "collapsed by the community". I wonder why.
Here's what he said:
"Israel will never be conquered again my friend. It won't happen. The U.S. needs to stay on the winning side. Even if that means WW3. We should do our best to prevent it, but fight when we must.
God will defend Israel for He has chosen her as His own."
Is this what this community finds so offensive and so dangerous?
Yes livia, we find the prospect of Israel starting WW3 offensive and dangerous. Israel is the one making threats to Iran and trying to get the US involved. If you think god will save Israel, fine, but keep the US out of the equation.
No more wars for Israel.
Livia: I like and support your post #4.30. Unfortunately, many Americans have the same idiotic impression of the Jews that our idiotic European ancestors had centuries ago.
Israel and the Jews are not exactly at the top of my Christmas card list (Why would they be since they don't have Christmas), they have their own faults. Just the same, they should not be, as they often have been thoughout history, the scapegoat for all that goes wrong in the Middle East and the West.
And this would be a bad thing?
This is the Seinfeld episode of global conflict: it's a war about nothing. Why are Iran and Israel about to attack each other? There's no reason but hatred. Border dispute? Nope. Oil? Nope. Just mutual hatred. What a total waste. If anything good comes out of this, maybe the entire Middle Eastern subcontinent will finally be vaporized and the rest of the civilized world can move on.
Israel has responded to threats only. They have no interest in destroying Iran.
Iran, on the other hand wants to destroy Israel. Why? To make Allah happy.
Guess what? They believe destroying the United States will make Allah happy to.
Remember this: "Science flies men to the moon, Islam flies men into buildings".
The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them and without doing anything.
@sonar guy : Iran NEVER said they were going to destroy Israel themselves. They said Israel is a foreign entity that needs to be removed from the Middle East. The entire arab and muslim world thinks that way, Iran is no different than anyone else on that subject.
They never talked of destroying the US, you're just inventing stuff, and they never put the destruction of Israel in a religious view, it was always a matter of justice towards the palestinians.
Basically, you're lying. I suggest you stop.
Nothing? Are you stupid?! Nuclear weapons in the hands of the Iranians is the equivalent of a shotgun in the hands of an inmate. They will be used, and it will be used to gain control of the region. Eventually some nation has to do this or Iran will strike first. Guaranf u c k enteed!
Micheal the arab nations dont give to sh its about the palestines they use them for their own agendas everbody knows that. If isreal was not there it would be all called the country of jordan and know one would think twice about them anymore.
Lemme guess -- Michael, you're on drugs, right? No, wait -- you're still drinking Obama Kool-Aid.
sonar guy - That's an Einstein quote, even though you didn't attribute it to him. Einstein was a smart guy.
I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. …the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power….I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain – especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks… -- Albert Einstein, 1938.
As a person who actually studies this part of the world, I have to disagree. I work for the government with a lot of other intelligent people, and our concern isn't so much whether or not Iran will use a nuke. Most of us, and I stress most, don't believe Iran would ever use a nuke offensively. I'm not letting any cat out of the bag, there are a lot of senior analysts who have been published or on TV saying the same thing. They would use one the same way we would... that is to say, if someone launched a nuke at us we would launch several back in retaliation. However, there are some people I work with who spend just as much time or more on this as I do and their conclusions, even though they differ from mine, are just as well thought out. We do, however, agree that Iran is looking to build a nuclear weapon in the near future. It is also important to note that there is a minority of people in the field who actually disagree with us altogether and actually think Iran isn't aiming for weapons, though like I said, they are few.
What it really boils down to is whether or not you believe Iran is suicidal. Some believe Iran would gladly sacrifice itself if it means destroying or crippling Israel, hastening the return of the 12th Imam and what have you. What I and most others believe is that Iran is a rationally acting, self interested state. What that means is that basically, like any other state, they want to grow their power, influence, and wealth. They want to go from regional power to international player. Now, having a nuke takes military action against them almost completely off the table, certainly a full invasion like we did in Iraq. It ensures their security. To use a nuke though, well it would ensure a nuclear response. Their economy would be destroyed, Tehran would be gone, government wiped out, and all the modernizing, state building and work they have done the last few decades would be gone just like that. Iran isn't a country full of suicidal dim-wits. They would not benefit at all from such action. People in my field believe there is a good reason nobody has used a nuked anyone since WWII... because there is no winner. In today's world, with the economy of every nation so interdependent on others, there would only be losers in any nuclear strike.
Out of curiosity..... How are nuclear weapons in the hands of the Iranians different than say in the hands of Israel, in the hands of Pakistan, or in the hand of North Korea etc..... Hmmm
Frankly I would perfer that no one have any nuclear weapon at all, anywhere, anytime, in any universe period. Nuclear weapons solve nothing and only bring grief and are an enormous drain on resources to store and monitor imo.
Also the problem with nuclear weapons is that if used the fallout will eventually reach and affect everyone and everything on our planet imo.
We have enough environmental problems than trying to glow too. On the other hand it may speed up the next step in our evolution or devolution. Hmm
Isn't it odd that some of these Middle Eastern countries do not want to declare war on other countries that may irk them, yet do not mind other countries waging war on their behalf?
So regarding these countries who want Iran gone, but do not want to do it themselves because their people are perhaps more precious and are better at making money than war, why don't they help Israel by also providing the money, the boots on the ground etc instead of just allowing Israel to be able to use their airspace?
For example... if Canada wanted to put a spoke in our wheels, it is doubtful that they would be asking the UK to do that job for them. LOL They would simply shut down their borders and air space and flood our air waves with ads (propoganda or otherwise) about their better health care system, their better air quality, their better standard of living, their friendlier people, the ability of some of their citizens to speak French fluently, their big green trees, their hockey prowess, their clean streets, their civilized behaviour, their absense of the death penalty, their stellar ability at sliding heavy stones across ice (whatever that is called), their sense of humor, their film industry, recall all their actors and actresses to return home leaving a huge void in Hollywood, that they beat us at hockey in the Olympics (didn't they?), their ability to produce excellent ballroom dancers, their ability to send back all our draft dodgers that are still living amoung them, their ability to get along with others, and their ability to get us to do something that their people do not want and most of our people do not want i.e. to build the Keystone pipeline through some of our most sensitive and needed farmlands, watersheds, aquifiers, etc, and the fact that they even pay less for their pharma than we do and all the other stuff that we haven't even thought about, like making sure that Alaskans including Sarah Palin do not enter or cross their air space cutting that state off from the lower 48. LOL
Anyhoo, when is saber rattling more than just saber rattling? When are threats more than just empty words whose purpose is to irritate and maybe insult? Is duelling back in style but only on a massive scale now?
When will the draft start in the USA? You know it has to start before Israel start their war with Iran so we can train all those hawkish people's children to be the boots on the ground over there. Plus the Bush tax breaks for the rich and the corporations will have to be recinded sooner than later, to pay for this ww3.
So are you ready to rumble yet and bear the consequences of the rumbles?
Laugh a little. Whatever... might never happen, anytime soon anyway.... Just say no to insanity.
Peace..... can't we just get along.... LOL
Sonar guy Iran does not want to destroy Israel to make Allah happy. Iran is opposed to Israel because of more than 50 years of abuse Israelis put Palestinians through. And Iranian President never said that Israel should be wiped off the map. He was speaking that Israeli regime should change, thus a policy should change. He never said the country should be destroyed. But I guess your Israeli controlled media can feed you anything, and you will joyfully swallow any bulls**t they put in your mouth.
One does not have to be a Muslim to see the crimes of Israel. The majority of the people who refuse to see how this tiny evil country holds the rest of the world hostage are Evangelical nutjobs who think they should support Israel to speed up Jesus' arrival. These are the same people, dare I remind you, who believe the world is only several thousand years old, who want to bring prayers to an invisible being whose existence cannot be proven to public schools, and who believe we should base our internal and foreign policies on a bronze age book of myths and gory fairy tales. I say we should ship all the Evangelical nutters to Afghanistan. They will be i a good company, Taliban is not that different from them. Let them sort it out. If they beat Taliban, it will make our lives easier. If Taliban wipes them out, our lives will improve as well. It's a win win situation.
Talon, BZ, Musafir, it is good to see that there are some rational thinking individuals here on this site. Some of the warmongering individuals on this site are downright scary. It saddens me to think that we have started an unnecessary war in Iraq (and have de-stabilizied it in the process). And now Israel is threatening to do the same.
Gee i wonder why so many hate in the region...
Resolution 106:" . . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid".
Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".
Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".
Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".
Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".
Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".
Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
Resolution 316: " . . .'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
Resolution 317:" . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
Resolution 425: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
Resolution 446: " . . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians".
Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'".
Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re- admit two deported Palestinian mayors".
Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility".
Resolution 497: " . . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith".
Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in".
Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.
Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 672: " . . .'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
Resolution 726: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for there immediate return.
The difference between Iran having a nuclear bomb and Israel having one, is that Israel has it purely for the purpose of self-defense. [You'll notice that in the 40-or-so years Israel has had it, they have never used it.]
Iran wants it for the purpose of genocide.
[Musafir--I can see by your name that you're a Muslim; I'm sorry to tell you you've been fed a huge--and I mean huge--passle of lies. Almost every single thing you say in your overly-long comments above: totally bogus. Untrue.]
Thanks, Joe. Rationality is my job. If I only looked at one angle or just went with my gut, I'd be out of a job. I always try and bring the same mindset to the insane world of internet forums, for what good it does.
Just Like U: you quote the UN.
With 57 Muslim states, each with a vote in the UN...
and much of the rest of the world dependent on Arab oil, and therefore voting with the Muslim states...
it's no surprise that the UN is ridiculously biased against Israel.
Musafir you're obviously insane or a muslim...probably both....spouting your own propaganda.
Livia, just because I have an Arabic nickname does not make me a Muslim. And forgive me if I don't believe in your "Israel has a nuclear bomb" for self defense. Israel is an occupier. An illegal occupier. United Nations - thus most of the world admits that Israel is an illegal occupier. A country that illegally occupies another country is an aggressor, not a defender. Iran has not attacked a single country in over a century, while Israel does it every five years or so. As far as you saying that Iran needs a nuke for a genocide of Jewish people, it can be easily proven false: Iran is run by a group of very religious Muslim clerics. Jerusalem is the third most holy site for all Muslims. Why would a group of Muslim clerics toy with an idea of dropping a nuke on their holy site? The real reason why Iran wants a nuke is simple. Self defense. They see what was done to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya. They don't want the same thing to happen to them. And I can't blame them. They are a sovereign nation. Sure you can blame them for not letting inspectors to inspect their nuclear sites. But before we do that let us not forget that Israel got the nuke first, and would not let anyone inspect their sites. If Israel does it why can't Iran?
Rick, point out why you think I'm insane. And as far as propaganda is concerned, I leave it to Faux News and other Zionist "media".
Livia, had Israel not been busy stealing land for the past 60 year the U.N. would have not been "biased" against Israel. Muslims are upset with Israel for a very valid reason. A bunch of well armed immigrants came over from Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Germany, France and other places and decided to take over the land where their distant ancestors lived several thousand years ago, and in the process decided to kick out the people who have lived there for countless generations. These Ashkenazim have not lived in Palestine for almost 2000 years. Whey would they have more rights to own it than an Arab whose family lived in this land and bled for this land for many centuries?
To talonkonkel
Hey, little kid! I don't know what you think qualifies you as an expert, and you seem to believe you work for the government and speak for them... are you a mailman then or a grunt in the army?
The fact is that Iran would be very happy to nuke their enemies and would greatly benefit from such an attack. EVERY nation is already afraid of them without nuclear weapons! Once they dropped a bomb on their most hated enemies, do you really think ANY nation in the world would attempt to stop them, invade them, or even say no to them?
Of course not! Once they nuke Isreal off the map everyone would fear them or praise them and give in to ANY demand they made, making them the ONLY world superpower.
Quick History 101: Iran takes hostages in the 1970's... Carter gives them everything they ask for. Hostages are not released. Iran Demands more. US forces botch rescue mission, soldiers die. Carter gives in to Iran demands again, and again and again... Hostages not released. America held by balls until Carter leaves office.
The usa or the united nations would not retaliate. Sanctions and such would be made and enforced poorly (like with Iraq) until another nuke was dropped elsewhere. The "Global community" wouldn't allow any nuclear retalliation by us, and would bow to Iranian demands in fear of being the next target of nuclear destruction.
In the short term, Obama is too afraid of the public opinion turning against him. Obama isn't a leader, or much of a man, he was just the most popular kid in school four years ago when there was an election and still thinks he was elected class president. He couldn't even scare a child with a haloween mask, Iran has nothing to fear from him.
I don't claim to be an expert on Iran or Iranians, but I do know their political history from reading and years of study... not to mention I served during desert storm before you were an itch on your daddys sack.
I don't know if it matters but my brother-in-law was half Iranian and his father came to this country and spent his entire life transporting "enemies of the state" out of Iran and bringing them to safety on American soil. He did not like "our kind" (old people are always racist, no matter where you go) but here was safety for his people until they could return home. Hell, I don't know how much I am even allowed to say about any of it, but this was going on in the 1980's and 1990's and he has passed away since then. All I can say is I heard some amazing stories from him and met some very frightening and interesting people while visiting him.
Musafir I won't comment on your opinion of Israel, but you do make a good point about Iran. Jerusalem is home to some of the most holy sites in Islam. Not only that, but some of the most holy sites of Jewish and Christians as well. In my analysis with coworkers this is something I brought up a number of times. Even if you disregard the ramifications economically, politically, and militarily (ramifications which would cripple or destroy Iran itself) of using a nuke on Israel, such a strike would also turn not only the rest of Islam (including their own people) on them, but the two other Abrahamic religions as well. Most in my field believe they would never use a nuke, but their are guys I work with who disagree. We have spirited debates about this, sometimes even share a drink afterwards. There are arguments aplenty on both sides. You are also correct that they want defense. I and most others in my field feel that if Iran gets a nuke, the military option against them is almost completely taken off the table. Iran was very anxious when we invaded Iraq only a couple years after invading Afghanistan, who they also share a border with. Looking at it from the view of Iran, your Western and Eastern borders have both been occupied by Americans and the West, with American navy off their shores and to their south and Israel further to the West rattling sabers. They were and still are very afraid they are next. From a rational perspective, they want a shield to keep enemies out. A nuke gives them one. I'm not saying they should have one, but I can say there are a number of guys out their right now getting paid big bucks to anticipate what our policies/responses will be in a world with a nuclear Iran, and from what little I know from those guys, it seems to mean actually dealing directly with Iran, real diplomacy. Not this dealing through Swiss intermediaries we have going on now.
Musafir Where do you come up with this insane description that Israel is an Occupier. First all the Jews have inhabited Jerusalem for 600 years before Islam even exists. With the UNs consent the nation of Israel was born. As for the west bank, the world knows how that happened, it was the Muslims attempting to overtake Israel completely, of course they lost.And they lost land (the west bank) which by ALL rights belongs now to Israel as a conquered territory in a war they did not start.
BTW - If bible prophecy is correct, Israel must grow to a size of three time greater than it is now before the prophesied apocalypse... hmm, I wonder if that will be the result of another 7 day war..
Talon....you sound like you are an analyst of some sort but as you say "in the insane world of internet forums" there are quite a few imposters. All it takes is a basic understanding of political/world knowledge acquired by reading numerous magazine articles on said topics in fact those people likely have as much savvy as those burried deep within the intelligence complex, just not have access to all the bells and whistles. Human history is a good metaphor. Plus the history of the middle east especially since the state of Israel was established. I think Israel missed an opportunity of reaching an accommodation with the Palestinians which might have alleviated the overall attitude towards them from the arab world but that situation seems unsolvable. The Iranian "government" (and I use that in loose terms) is either using its depiction of Israel as a deflection from internal woes or truly sees itself as a Persian messiah determined to eradicate Israel from the region. Perhaps their delusions are grander than we perceive for Israel (a) would never be eliminated without taking the region down with them or (b) is simply to militarily strong for its neighbors. The wild card is Hizzbulah. Would they act as Iran's client and attack Israel thereby risking their growing status within Lebanon as a "moderate" force or are they too dedicated to the overthrow of Israel? If Israel were to attack Iran they might not have any choice but to side with their Iranian masters. The unrest in Syria is also an unknown. Would an Israeli attack further weaken Assad's regime or would Syria's attention be diverted and the public galvanize themselves against Israel? Many, many unknowns all fraught with peril. Israel should resist the temptation.
Hunter Rose, please, kindly, explain to me how Iran benefits from launching a successful nuclear strike on Israel. Please, explain to me how the guaranteed nuclear retaliation against them (which would kill millions of Iranian citizens in Tehran alone) would help them. Mutually Assured Destruction the SOP, and it means if someone nukes us, we nuke back. That's how deterrence works. Explain how such a strike would help their economy. Explain how countries around the world might start looking favorably at them. Explain how having their military wiped out in a response attack benefits them. Explain how a nuclear strike wiping out their own holy Islamic sites in Israel would help them. They gain nothing. NOTHING. Except maybe this wish to be rid of Israel, which in the backs of the heads of their leadership they know full well isn't likely to happen. Yes, and I may just be a researcher whose bosses have a PHD or a couple of them, and no I don't draw up policies or recommendations to the government. But I have a degree in Comparative Politics, studied abroad in Egypt, learned Arabic, and have made the region my work. I'm a patriot who loves his country, and my job dictates looking at all sides of the argument. I think that makes me a bit more knowledgeable than most.
Livia, maybe it's because it's the truth. And we know the truth can hurt but we have to accept it. What happened to the Jews (and other minorities) in Europe down through the centuries was wrong. However, that doesn't give Israel carte blanche to do whatever they want now. A person could delude themself and believe that other parties are only against Israel for economic reasons. However, one has to look at the facts and they are damning. Palestinians were forced off their land through various means and they have not forgotten. I'm not crazy about extremists anywhere but Israel, through its actions, must bear much of the blame for the present situation they find themselves in. If much of the world is against Israel it is probably because no one likes a hypocrit. But maybe it's easier for them, the country of Israel, to live with that then being the eternal martyr. The price of that is losing the few friends you have, except those who you can buy and intimidate with a bag of silver (the U.S. politicans).
Musafir how does the UN see Israel as an occupier? Please give some evidence to support your claim. Especially being the UN set apart a specific area for a Jewish state at the end of WW2. Also as to your claim that Iran's leader hasn't declared that he wants Israel wiped from the face of the Earth, I'm sorry you're mis-informed. How can you take him serious when he denies that the Holocaust ever happened.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4529198.stm
It should be pointed out that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is the president of Iran, but that he is not the most powerful person in Iran. Ayatollah Khameni is. They call him Supreme Leader for a reason. Whether Iran attacks or doesn't is his final say, not the President. Unfortunately, Mahmoud is the face of that nation here in the West, though it can be found that Khameni has said just as much or more hostile words towards the West.
Hunter Rose, since you're bringing up History let's go back a little furthur in time. When you go into a country and put a dictator in power, the Shah, you can't expect people to be very happy with you. You stick it to them and they're going to stick it back to you. It's childish but it's called National Pride or Nationalism or whatever you want to call it. So if you want to start laying blame then the United States is to blame for that and for de-stablizing the country of Iran. Maybe if we hadn't put the Shah in power then we wouldn't have given ammo to the relgious extremists and maybe there would presently be a more moderate group in power. Of course, It's a theory. But before you cast stones at others realize that they don't trust the west in general and the U.S. in particular. With good reason.
I tend to agree with you Livia the UN does seem to be alittle biased but the tone of alot of these post tend to be toxic and I fear that anything you say here will only fall on deaf ears.
musafir , or mustafa whatever the hell you name is ( mustafir rhymes with lucifer , i believe that is who you are ) you are probably an aethiest or muslim , muslims hate God and aethiest don't believe in God. just because you say there is no God does not mean that i believe a damn thing you say because i personally have had a personal encounter with him. but you would not know God if he got up and slapped you in the face, ha ha ha ha ! oh by the way, you are a BIGOT !!!!!
Blackbird, yes you raise a lot of interesting points. Israel has missed many opportunities to reach agreements with the Palestinians over years and this has really hurt the region. Former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski has really tried to hammer home how failure from both sides to come together has hurt stability and diplomacy in the region. You also noted how Iran may be using the current situation to deflect or quell what is happening within the state. Iran being defiant shows strength, and helps show its own citizens that it can protect them while at the same time discouraging them from speaking out. Elections are coming up in Iran, it should be noted, and they want no repeat of the election uprising from a few years ago. Hezbollah are supported by Iran, and in a war with Israel, would probably act as another front in the war. Some have speculated that Iran might give them a nuke and let them use it. However, Iran knows, like we do, that such a bomb can be traced back to its source (though radiation levels, radiation types, ect) unless their first ever bombs somehow are so advanced they can look like ours. So if Hezbollah used one, Iran would be the guilty party and the retaliation from upholding MAD would mean they suffer for it. Also, I don't think Syria would be in much of a position to help, at least at the moment. They have all they can handle trying to quell their own uprising. However, nobody knows how a preemptive strike from Israel will be handled by the rebels in Syria. I don't think they would suddenly stop and rejoin Syria to aid Iran. Also, I am just a guy who does research, gathers info, crunches numbers. I work for the analysts, though.
Musafir, I suggest you learn about Israel, take classes about Judaism and it's history and read the Jewish Bible before you make ignorant and judgmental comments such as Israel "killing the God you talk about" and calling Israel an "evil country". Are you an atheist or perhaps just an anti-semite? You think Israel is the only country that has committed "crimes" or is home to a bunch of nut jobs. I would say most of the world is guilty of that.
On Michael's comment, post #6.3: You are wrong. The "entire Arab and Muslim" (you should have used capitol letters) world do not think the same way as Iran on the subject of removing Israel from the Middle East. Look at the record on this. The conclusion you jumped to was so great you must have broken both your ankles. There are Arab countries that would like to see Iran get jack slapped and put in its place. Iranians are Iranians and not Arabs, Iranians are mostly Shiites. Arabs are Arabs and mostly Sunnis. These factors alone are enough to keep Iran at odds with their regional neighbors.
Moving outside the Middle East, Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia, to name a few Muslim countries, do not share Iran's sentiments and objectives regarding Israel. The radical fundamentalists in those or any other Arab or Muslim country do not speak for the general population.
Perhaps you comment could chalked up to wishful thinking regarding Israel's fate and future?
The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labor — not by force, but on the whole in faithful compliance with legally established rules. ~ Albert Einstein, 1949
@Just Like U
Just a small list of terrorist groups that have attacked Israel or want to destroy Israel.
Palestinan Islamic Jihad
Hamas
Fatah
Hezbollah
Muslim Brotherhood
al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades
Popular Resistance Committees
Ansar al-Sunna
Abu Nidal Organization
Black September Organization
As-Sa'iqa
Force 17
Tanzim
Fatah Hawks
Army of Islam
Jund Ansar Allah
Fatah-al Islam
Jaljalat
You're kidding, right?? "Well-armed immigrants"?? You mean the ones who risked their lives with only the clothes on their backs to escape the pre-WWII ghettos they were forced to live and die in (research tip: The Pale). These same ones who had never held a weapon in their lives traveled to the land then known as Palestine and broke their backs for decades reclaiming Arab-discarded swamp and desert lands for argiculture while helping nearby Arab villages with education, agriculture and sanitation, among other things. Muslims have NO valid reason to be "upset" (as you put it) with Israel. The Jews have only ever reacted to cowardly Muslim and Arab attacks for decades upon decades. I also suggest that you read some Middle Eastern history NOT endorsed or published by Arabs or Muslims. The crud you spout is historically inaccurate and is completely incorrect. If you truly believe that Iran and other Arab nations haven't stated that Israel and all Jews should be wiped off the face of the earth, you're living with your head in the sand. Amin al-Husseini even tried to hook up with the Nazis during WWII. Do you know anything about him and what he "stood" for? I suggest you aquaint yourself with him and the movement he led. Perhaps you should also look into the British Mandate for Palestine and it's pro-Arab stance, the White Papers, the Arab League, the ALA, the Arab riots and pogroms prior to WWII, etc, etc, etc. When you're done with that, you can go back to the history of the Jews in the land now known as Israel that goes back over 4,000 years. You have a lot of reading to do. I suggest you get on it rather than spouting lies and mistruths.
I am sickened by the posters on here who have no grasp of history and think the creation of Israel was just about WWII. Educate yourselves. Please, for your own sake. You sound like idiots (JustLikeU, BZe1, Michael-1495965, and JoeCal: this means you, among others).
Livia, if Israel has had these Nukes for that long and have not used it becuse it was supposedly a deterrant, why feel so insecure now after all these years, to where they feel that starting ww3 is a good idea?
If Israel was going to go it alone and not have any other nations involved or any other nations having to live with the fall out from said war...I would be the first to hold my breath and say 'have at it buckos'.
Before a lot of lives are put on the line, why not have the President/PM of Israel and the President of Iran wrestle, or lace up those gloves and box, and who ever wins... wins the conflict and can tell the other to just 'shut up already'? Think of all the lives one could save that way?
After 10 years and counting of war, death, destruction of not only property but lives, liberties, and our pursuit of happiness as we are now saddled with enormous debt from said wars, our standard of living and wages have dropped or stagnated, while the cost of living etc continue to rise why would the USA want to be drawn into another conflict that does not benefit us in any way shape or form?
Is Israel and the other Middle Eastern countries who are irritated by Iran, going to re-emburse the USA for the use of our Armed Forces in their backyard squabble/disagreement/conflict, or do we in the masses have to bear that cost alone yet again to pay for yet another conflict, even while per the T'publicondinos we are unable to afford to rebuild and improve our own infrastructure or afford to care for our own vets, or afford to fund school lunches for underpriviledge kids, affordable housing for the homeless, education for our children, fund our first responders, teachers, community health nurses etc, fund the public safetynets for those who need same etc or build new bridges or rebuild and improve those bridges that are already falling apart and the various things that need being done in the USA?
Or is it only debt for/from wars and conflicts that is ok to pass on to our grandchildren and greatgrandchildren, but not the cost of improving our own infrastructure, providing a not for profit public Medicare For All healthcare plan, and take care of or improving the lives of our own citizens who are even losing their homes to forclosure and are in need of all sort of help?
So one war/conflict has ended and our heroes are home from Iraq and the other in Afghanistan is winding down and our heroes will soon be home, so now there must be another conflict to draw us in again, continue to drain our financial resources, put us deeper in debt, destroy our country from within, maim and kill our young people, and continue to rip families apart? And for what?
So, when is enough war and conflict, enough war and conflict? When is enough death and distruction, enough death and distruction?
Anonymous.... what's with this tossing in the 'anti-semite' word in this conversation? Are you saying that if folks do not agree with your stance then they are suddenly anti- semites? One could ask you if you are anti-American, anti-sanity, anti-peace, anti-youth- as they are the ones whose lives would be put on the line, anti-other people in the world having a life, pro-deficit, pro-big debt, pro-conflicts and wars, pro-death and distruction......
Chester we have choices. Question did I do something to cause these kids to threaten me? Am I making them feel uncomfortable in their own home and neighborhood? Did I try to understand them or their concerns? Did I try to make friends or at least treat them with a modicum of respect? I could try to accept the situation, mind my own business and accept my weird neighbors, keep a judicious eye on them, or move. If I cannot move then wait until they break the law then report them to the appropiate authorities. Arming myself and going over to their home and shooting them in cold blood is only going to get me arrested for murder, as is shooting them from over my fence. Plus their guns may be fakes and and if real may not even have any bullets. LOL
One always check out a neighborhood before one moves there. If I know that there are problems in that neighborhood and still move in, then I will have to take responsibility for my/that decision, don't you think? Could be I am just another nut job and/or a gun enthusiast like my neighbors. So we should get along well together swapping stories and commonalities. LOL
As the saying goes ''old men declare war for young men and women to die in"......
Peace......what a concept....
Rick4187868, you are suspended for a week for violating rules # 1 and # 5 of the Code of Honor.
MMR...you do realize that the people that Mustafir was probably referring to are the ones that left the USSR when they were allowed to leave and after the fall of the Soviet Union?
Peace....stop the insanity..... give diplomacy and sanctions a chance...
You obviously need a history lesson too. Try Google, for a start. The fact that you think that's what he/she is referring to is laughable. Try this word on for size: CONTEXT.
I don't disagree with you that diplomacy needs to be given a chance or the comments you've made in regards to America's debts in relation to recent wars. I don't believe that the US should get involved in this at this point, unless Iran comes through on it's threats to attack Israel, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to anti-Semitic and anti-Israel rhetoric that is based on lies, bigotry and ignorance. History can't be re-written just because people like this want it to be.
mmr_bzn, I know the truth hurts and that's why you have so much anger in yourself about having to read it in print, and why you lash out. I understand. You're a big boy and you'll learn to live with it. Don't let it bother you that not everyone buys the propaganda. Remind yourself tho that if you feel so strongly about Israel that you can always migrate over there and offer you assistance. Don't expect the rest of us to do the same, tho. I believe in the U.S.A. I believe in helping our fellow citizens here first. We can't help the world. It's not plausible and frankly, we can't afford it.
MMr wasn't it during the Reagan/Bush1 years that the increase in the appropiating Palistinians' farms, orchards etc really came into full swing. Wasn't the taking of land and building housing on it been ongoing since that time, even when the Israeli govt told those settlers to stop? How about the razing and buldozing of Palestinian homes that was in full swing in the 1980-1990s?
Why is it that after all these years at least 25-30 years of trying to get these folks to seriously negotiate, that a settlement between the Israeli and the Palistinians have never taken place.... Look how many US administrations have tried to broker peace? How many have tried and have come close but a way was always found to derail it for one thing or the other?
Perhaps it is time that both sides -Israel and Palestine- came to the table and seriously work something out or else there will never be peace in the Middle East for anyone and this invariably spills over to the West imo.
Unrest breeds more unrest and mis-understanding breeds more mis-understanding too imo.
Peace.... give diplomacy and sanctions a chance.....
The defense contractors are in the bathroom rubbing one out after reading this article.
Nothing mentioned about the 1000's that will die though.
Thousands? This one could easily be billions.
Jungleboogie, point well taken. When the Israelis say "Never Again!" they may be referring to World War II, but this is shaping up to be more a repeat of World War I in its nature. You know, World War I, the war that started almost a century ago, that everybody saw coming, nobody really wanted, and yet nobody could seem to avoid. It started as a local conflict between Austria and Russia over control of Bosnia-Herzegovina in the wake of the assassination of the Austrian crown prince, and before you knew it, the whole world was engulfed. The result was that Europe basically committed a suicide from which it has never recovered and never will. This coming war, if it cannot be avoided, and I don't think it can be, will be a tragedy for every race and religion on the planet. Bar none. It will be World War I, on steroids.
I say we let Iran and Israel shoot it out, frankly I'm tired of hearing about both of their BS. All their so called religous beliefs , all fighting in the name of their god has decimated the entire world. The world would be better off without these nuts
Chester12: the Jewish people DO defend themselves. How do you figure that they haven't/don't? Yes, they have accepted military aid in the form of weapons and money from other countries, but they're not alone in that regard. They have fought for their independence and existence alone since the creation of Israel and for hundreds of years before that.
Must be time for the "profit from conflict" folks to make some money. Let the show begin.
Please make sure they have exact calculation; otherwise, the missiles may fall short; then there will be innocent victims.
This is not the MAJORITY of people of Israel talking war, this is a small group of zionist thugs headed by a low-life SOB, BIGMOUTH zionist netayahu..., armed with pure fabricated conjecture, lies and self-serving, expasionistic, arrogance!
If the Israeli people would mount a decent rebellion and oust that warmongering zionist low-life, things could calm down, dramatically.
And, as far as the subversive "jewish lobby", in the USA, we need to also enucleate them from our government and our Country, entirely and permanently!!
Hitler could have used a person like you. To bad he is not around anymore. So you will just have to dream that dream of yours, hopefully by yourself.
Seig Heil Mein Fuhrer! For gods sake Buddy! Are you anti-Semitic or WHAT?! Which death camp did you work at?
he's not stoop! he has a valid point natayahu waand is a warmonger the U.S sunk billions in aid to isreal and natayahu would'nt let the U.S use isreali airbases to strike iraqi positions and for everybodies the first gulf war wasent about the frigginoil iraq had and bushes warmongering iraq invaded kuait and shot up its people the U.S got put on the spot. george bush met with colin powell and norman shwartzkoff and british prime minister tony blair this group formed with our allies the coalition this sh-t didnt happen cause of anything but a direct violation of the geneva convention the U.N pointed its finger at bush and asked what are ya gonna do about this george?? so he had no choice! natayahu when asked to use his air bases told america to pound salt the way i figure it natayahu and isreal owe uncle sugar over 100 billion smakers that we been sinking in his dam country anti sematic give us a break will ya buddies right these people suck us dry and when we ask them for help they tell us to scratch their fannies i say bring our kids home and keep our money here instead of welfare countries!!
I picture Buddy as one of the Nazis in 'The Blues Brothers'....."I hate Illinois Nazis".
Classic.
Every time i read or hear the word Zionist, i think, here we go again....another anti-semetic, another person with nothing but hatred in their minds and hearts...you people are no better than the Iranian government.
Buddy did not say anything antisemitic. Why is it whenever someone criticizes Israel, or mentions the Jewish lobby in United States (which by the way exists and does very well) he is immediately branded as an anti-Semite and a Nazi? Israel is a foreign country that sucks out billions of our money, worsens our relations with the rest of the world, and is possibly provoking a WWIII. Saying all this is not anti-Semitic. This Holocaust thing is getting old. Sure, we are all sorry it happened, it was a terrible thing. But just because Nazis made laundry soap out of your grandpa does not mean you cannot be criticized for your actions. You guys make it sound as if Jewish people are holy and none of them are capable of committing crimes, and as if Israel is sacred and above any laws and cannot commit crimes, or abuse our alliance. Wake up people!!! Israelis expects us to do the dirty work for them. They have their own country, lets them defend it, let them feed their own people, let them take care of their economy. The Jewish people wanted their own nation, now they have it. Whether it prospers or fails is their problem, and their problem only. Why should a single penny out of our taxes go to help Israel, and not to build our roads, our hospitals, pay for our schools, help our retirees? Israel is acting like a spoiled brat. If they get slapped, let them be slapped. Their country - their problem.
Musafir
Buddy did not say anything antisemitic.
And, as far as the subversive "jewish lobby", in the USA, we need to also enucleate them from our government and our Country, entirely and permanently!!
Uhhhh.....would that be considered 'Anti-Semitic', Musafir? Just wondering.....
who ever strike first, should be severely punished by international community. this might be a spark for widespread war which israel and iran will regret in end.
1000's of innocent people, these bloody politicians does not care about???
Over 60 Million people lost their lives in WWII. The dates have changed but not the nature of mankind.
Just how many of those 60 million were Israelites Smokie? Don't you get it?
"Just how many of those 60 million were Israelites Smokie?"
About 10%.
Hopeless
Approximately 6 million jews were put to death along with some gypsies and Romanians...this is historical fact!!!
Israel has had nuclear weapons for years but has never used them. It's a deterrent force used by the U.S. , the U.K. and France as well as other countries. If Israel wanted to use those weapons they would have already.
My question to you is what country do you come from?
You must know that Israel is the only country in the mideast that is friendly with the U.S.
And friends stick up for their friends...at least it used to be that way.
swej, why don't you go back to where you came from !? you are anti American so get the hell out of my country !!! you BIGOT !!!
swej-kcuf
I WONDER WHERE YOU MUSLIMS WERE HIDING DURING THE WAR...
WORKING FOR HITLER I SUPPOSE????
The death of 6 million jews pales in comparison with the death of 28 million Russians and 25 million Chinese.
What's your stupid point Henrich?
Two comments. Only a brain dead robot could make a statement that neither Iran or Israel have contributed to the betterment of mankind. Israel has had more inventions, processes etc that are now used in every facet of mankind's existence than any country has in the last 60 years, and far more than the total existence of all of the Arab?Muslim world.
Also, the Arab grand mufti of Jerusalem stayed with Hitler and got the Bosnian Muslims to start their own SS regiment. The Arabs back then had the same goal in life as Hitler did, namely the destruction of the Jews. The Muslim world fought against the allies.
@latekate
Get this into your stupid mind. Jews were not the only victims of WWII, more Russians and Chinese got killed and jews should not be singled out as if they were the only vicitms, hence repeating the holocaust mantra BS.
@von Dork
Perhaps you should study the Holocaust if you have the balls.
It takes "balls" to glance over the FACT that others died in WWII... 28 Million Russians and 25 Million Chinese... get it... others died too... you can play the sympathy card for a limited amount of time especially when others perished too
Well well do you think China or RUSSIA GIVES A DAM ABOUT US YOU IDIOT.
Yeah.... how about we sit this one out for once?
I say again to you rerere:
The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them and without doing anything.
Without doing anything? We have given them billions yearly for over 30 years. We have armed them and trained them.
What more should we do? Tell them to sit this one out and we will fight their battles?
How about we worry about the 20% hunger rate among the children in the U.S.? Let's worry about them first, OK?
While were out playing defenders of the world, our own nation crumbles.
sonarguy, that's right. And Israel has done a lot of evil in their quest for land and domination. Why do you think most of the world has such a low opinion of them and favors the arabs?
HA HA Joe...again, you have no idea how Israel ended up with the very land they have. You better do some history dude.
justoneguy, I know all about it. How they intimidated and forced Palestinians to sell land and those who didn't sell were threatened with death. These are facts. Most of the people in the world know the truth and that's why most support the Arabs and Palestinians. Think about it, and if you can't think about it, then do some internet searching and see what the world regards as the truth. In other words don't believe what some politician who is kissing up to the Jewish lobby group is saying. I don't have to laugh about it since I have facts to back up what I'm saying. That's how I do history.
JoeCal
Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know you were hating on Jews.
FACTS...
Resolution 106:" . . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid".
Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed
fifty-six people".
Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's
'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".
Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its
attack on Syria".
Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on
Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".
Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967
Palestinian refugees".
Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive
attack on Karameh in Jordan".
Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military
parade in Jerusalem".
Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in
Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify
Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant
violation".
Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept
UN mission to probe occupation".
Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut
airport".
Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in
Jordan".
Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative
acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in
southern Lebanon".
Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions
on Jerusalem".
Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from
Lebanon".
Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against
Lebanon".
Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form
Lebanon".
Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the
status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks
against Lebanon".
Resolution 316: " . . .'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks
on Lebanon".
Resolution 317:" . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release
Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against
Lebanon".
Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating
Lebanon's sovereignty".
Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on
Lebanon".
Resolution 425: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from
Lebanon".
Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its
withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of
cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
Resolution 446: " . . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a
'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth
Geneva Convention".
Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in
occupied territories".
Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all
member states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention
in Lebanon".
Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal
expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their
return".
Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe
the council's order not to deport Palestinians".
Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to
abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are
'null and void'".
Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest
terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'".
Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re- admit two
deported Palestinian mayors".
Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on
Iraq's nuclear facility".
Resolution 497: " . . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's
Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision
forthwith".
Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon
and withdraw its troops".
Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces
forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and
allow food supplies to be brought in".
Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN
resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN
forces in Lebanon".
Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia
in attack on PLO headquarters.
Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to
withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian
students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and
practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and
strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United
Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of
Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing
deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 672: " . . .'condemns' Israel for violence against
Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the
United Nations.
Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the
deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's dep
joe cal, you are just talking out your ass, please don't speak for me because you are an embarressment to this country !!! why don't you and swej kiss my ass, only terrorist think like you and butt crack swej !
the whole world knows that those people in the middle east like iran , pakistan and afghanistan are terrorist and there are some bloggers here who are sympathetic to them like swej and joe cal !
Oh wow...oh...nevermind...I see the name format...hello stoogebot!
SANDRA is out of control. Isn't there a moderator on here? I hope anyone under 12 isn't reading her potty-mouth, vulgar posts.
AND, a spreading conflagration may grow to include Russian interests in Middle East countries which(since Russia uses a Syrian Naval Base) may bring a Russian military force against Israel. Look to your Bible prophecies about Rosh(Russia-Moscow-Mochba) and it's moves into a conflict involving Israel.
isn't it marvelous.....israel can't defend itself without criticism...
palestine fire rockets daily into israel yet noone complains....yet if israel defends itself everyone complains...mostly muslims.
israel does not ..like iran threaten the world.
muslims are dedicated to ruling the world.....thank god we have countries like Israel and USA to stop them.
It's your choice....JEWs...CHRITAINS...OR MUSLIMS...
WHO WOULD YOU PREFER TO RULE THE WORLD????
justoneguy, just because I say the truth and don't support Israeli policy you claim that i'm anti-Jewish? Often times when people don't have valid arguments and logic to support what they're saying they have to resort to your type of tactics. It's the typical action of certain individuals who seek to intimidate and frighten those who don't agree with their point of view. For example, it's what the Jewish lobby group does to U.S. politicians. I'm for the United States and believe we should do for our own first. Does that mean I agree with the fact that we went into Iraq. Not at all, because there's was no need to. That doesn't make me anti-U.S.A. But here in this great country we have our first amendment rights, even when there are others who make baseless accusations. And that's another thing I don't like about Israel, they have no freedom of speech. The government and military contols the media. This is a fact and my saying it doens't mean I'm anti-jewish. You turned it into a race thing. For me it's just politics.
You sure you aren't some anti jewish cause we need too defend Isreal cause they at this time are our only friend.
Another possibility: Israel does nothing, Iran develops The Bomb and does what she has said she will do: launch a devastating attack which sees the end of Israel.
That's the most likely scenario if Israel doesn't attack, backed by the U.S. and the Sunni Arab states.
I think you've forgotten two things...one that early nukes are usually relitivly weak compared to the nukes that the superpowers had at the top of their asenal in the cold war, and second that isreal has an estimated 400+ nukes of their own.
Assorted Gibberish, it really doesn't matter how many nukes Israel does or does not have for use in retaliation. The problem for a country the size of Rhode Island, is it only takes one incoming enemy Hiroshima-class nuke to really ruin your whole day. Retaliation does not bring back the dead.
The cold-war logic of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) that existed for forty years worked only because the two contestants involved (the USA and Soviet Russia) were rational powers both of whom were populated by people and leaders (in particular, Kennedy and Khruschev) both of whom valued the concept of having grandchildren in this world. I don't believe that the MAD concept can work when one of the contestants is a country whose national pastime is cutting off its nose to spite its face.
Hey Dude -- It might be worth learning how to spell
rel·a·tive·ly/ˈrelətivlē/
Adverb:
Exactly, Bud. And now a word to Israel, DEFEND YOURSELVES! Do not depend on our MUSLIM PRESIDENT, he will not help you. You are on your on until we get rid of him come November.
Its about time that they are willing to fight somebody who can fight back. Lets see how tough they really are. Israel might might special forces in Iran now, but they do have pissed-off Arabs within their borders. To whom they have treated like second class citizens, kicked them out of their home among other things. They might want to watch their backs, while looking at the sky for incoming missiles.
If Robert Windrem is a senior investigative producer for NBC News, then they need to revamp their entire research and fact checking operations... (if they still utilize any...) The IAF doesn't fly the F-18
Here again. You need to look at track record. In warfare, it is the weakest link that determines the outcome. And obama has too many tools to exploit weaknesses of iran. Look at it this way. Any drones flying over iran. How many have been downed. One is not enough.
I hope all the countries in the middle east launch all of their weapons at each other. They are all a bunch of freaking hotheads. I am so tired of listening to this garbage. Bombs away!
Great "handle" dude! I almost went with"Cut Fuse", but...anyway .
This could be a redo of the "Battle of 300". Israel has over 50,000 rockets pointed at it. A nut job Syrian dictator killing his people next door. A lebanon filled with extremist Muslim fanatics and an Iranian regime who has already threatened to remove Israel from the Earth. The world should not be surprised if Israel wages an attack on Iran or some of its other neighbours.
I would as a leader tell the world that Iran is wrong and also tell Israel how bad they are acting and then tell Israel to kick the holy crap out of Iran behind close doors as we have always done in the past .
Israel is no push over and the whole world knows better then to take them lightly !!! Besides Iran is full of whack'os and gutless and always whinning !!
Israel will only attack Iran if they think they can suck America in and have us do their dirty work for them. It's time to cut ties with our so called "ally" and "friend" who takes billions of our dollars (they're not loans, but taxpayer giveaways), and reverse engineers out military technology that we give them for free only so that they can sell same to China. The last thing in the world we need is yet another Middle East war, especially one ginned up by Israel. It's way past time that the tail stop wagging the dog.
Mr. Mossad, you are just wrong. Wrong. Where do you get your supposed info?
Israel is the only country in the Middle East that does NOT get "taxpayer giveaways". What it gets is military aid, in the form of money to be used ONLY to purchase American-made military equipment; every cent is spent back in the USA. That's jobs, my friends, for Americans.
And Israel shares vital intelligence, and sophisticated military and technical advances with the US.
Do you think the US offers it military aid out of the goodness of its heart? It does it because Israel is a very vital ally. If anyone is 'doing the dirty work' for anybody else, it is Israel doing it for the US.
If you've followed the news you know who Iran's real target is, if they can get past Israel. For those who don't, I'll give a hint: the Iranians call the USA "the Great Satan".
Mr Mossad,
Did Isreal need American help when they flew into Libya years ago and ended that countries nuclear aspirations?
The reason the US calls Isreal "ally" and "friend" is we get as much as we give. We have share research into missles and anti-missles systems for the last 20 years. We share intellegence of the region with them as they do with us.
The problem with Iran isn't one that Isreal manufactured it's one the world community has been aware of for a great deal of time. The UN has attempted to deal with it through boycotts and sanctions. This isn't only Isreals problem but because of the lack of diplomacy shown by Iran and the threats it has made to both Isreal and other countries someone does need to take actions agains Iran that insures they are unable to make good on their threats.
Isreal has proven time and again to be a mature and restrained contributor to the world community. They has shown restaint when attacked and restaint with their responses. (using conventional weapons when they are a member of the nuke club) Personally if the facilities in Iran are as well fortified as stated then rendering the facilities useless with tactical nuclear arms would IMHO be an alternative. I'm sure that has been discussed and it's only because of Isreal's position of using them for defense and deterance that they are not considered. However if Iran were to escalate hostilities after a tactical strike by Isreal I wouldn't be surprised to see the 3rd use of a atomic weapon in warfare nor would I be upset by it.
If Israel doesn't need American help, why the hell are they at our door every week, trying to get America to attack Iran. That war mongering pig, Netanyahu will be meeting with president Obama pleading for the US to help them against Iran. I have seen that lying, Zionist piece of crap on Glenn Beck, making his case for war.
We have given Israel over 100 billion dollars over the yearsThey do not spend every cent in America, providing jobs. Would it not be better if we gave our own citizens the money so they could purchase products in America and we win both ways?
Israel is a parasitic leach on the taxpayers of America. The Iraq war, planned and sold by Zionists will cost America over 3 trillion dollars. How did we benefit from that littlkle fiasco, Livia and Raw?
Though Israel had secretly done business with the Islamic Republic after the 1979 revolution, seeking to cultivate a Persian wedge against its local Arab enemies, the early 1990s saw a concerted effort by Tel Aviv to portray Iran as a new and existential threat.
1992: Israeli parliamentarian Benjamin Netanyahu tells his colleagues that Iran is 3 to 5 years from being able to produce a nuclear weapon – and that the threat had to be "uprooted by an international front headed by the US." (Sure seems like he wanted the US to do the job then)
1992: Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres tells French TV that Iran was set to have nuclear warheads by 1999. "Iran is the greatest threat and greatest problem in the Middle East," Peres warned, "because it seeks the nuclear option while holding a highly dangerous stance of extreme religious militancy."
RalphH........
TO clear up a point...
If you had a choice..Who would you prefer to rule your country..
THE JEWS OR THE MUSLIMS...
JUST GIVE A STRAIGHT ANSWER..
DON"T BEAT AROUND THE BUSH..
I would prefer the US be a secular nation, ruled by WASPS, as wee were in the beginning. If I had to make that choice, it would be Muslims, hands down.
Jews would continue to have us supporting the Zionist nation of Israel, which is led by terrorists and thieves. Israel is the source of hatred throughout the ME. Furthermore, I am 100% positive that there was Israeli involvement in 9/11. While Arabs were involved in 9/11, they were not state sponsored and would not have come close to succeeding if not for inside help.
WTCs Controlled Demolition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw-jzCfa4eQ&feature=player_embedded#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=972ETepp4GI&feature=fvwrel -- Watch Bldg 7 fall in a controlled demolition.
To RalphH- Israel led by terrorists and thieves??? Israeli involvement in 9/11??? That's absurd! Even laughable. Have you ever heard of an Israeli suicide bomber? Or an Israeli hijacker? Never! History has shown otherwise. 9/11 help came from a conglomerate of Arab nations and it took little to organize it.
Absurd... Laughable... i wish that were the case BUT the FACTS are what they are
Bing "5 dancing israelis"
Let er, rip!
It's long overdue anyway.
The US is just waiting for the first shot to be fired.
Get er done!
Israel, we got your back.
I know it is sick but I hope Israel attacks Iran and gets the nuke facilities. I hope there is an extended war with lots of Iranians killed, the "bad" ones. The people over there in the middle east need to stop fooling around with small scale terror attacks and have it out once and for all.
Viewer ready, maybe you and the rest of the Jewish lobby got Israel's back. But I can tell you that the vast majority of people don't feel the same as you do. We need to take care of our own here and stop worrying about Israel and Egypt and all those other Middle East countries. Stop sending all these countries billions of dollars in aid. If you want to support Israel I suggest you fly on over there and volunteer your services and put your body where you mouth is. Take the Jewish lobby group with you, too.
joecal - you must be referring to the gaggle of brainwashed liberals like yourself who entertain themselves by hating on Israel.
Can you tell us were do we get the rebate for the gas we pay in california ......
JOE CAL, call me when you stop putting gas in your car or when you wake up long enough to think about
building a bomb shelter.
Sandra 3169616. No, I don't like extremists of any kind, whether they're Israeli or Arab or Iranian or American. When you state that all those people in the countries you mention are terrorists you're generalizing. That's the same tactics the Germans used in WW2 when they labeled entire groups of people as being sub-human and you know what that type of thinking leads to.
Let the missles fly! I am not backing anyone. Both countries can wipe each other off the face of the earth and we will all be better for it.
I agree. Nothing good has come out of either country.
Matt.S.
I wonder if you own a cell phone..........................cause it was invented in Israel
I wonder if you use a USB drive............................cause it was invented in Israel
I wonder if you wan't to beat breast cancer.........cause the first radiation free treatment was invented in Israel
Please research before you post.
Please don't forget to include the global financial meltdown… Wikipedia "Jewish American Businesspeople"
AIG = Greenberg = Jew
Bear Sterns = Schwartz = Jew
Goldman = Blankfein = Jew
Enron = Fastow = Jew
Fed reserve = Greenspan = Jew
Citigroup = Weill = Jew
Makes one wonder why the germans hated them so much… hmmm could it be because.. use your imagination…
This is all about Irans rulers saying Israel should be destroyed and working non-stop on uranium enrichment and technology of enrichment that far surpasses electrical generation needs.Israel all ready has nuclear weapons.Have you ever heard them threaten to use them if they dont get their way,against anybody?If they put them on their missles and fired there would be little left of Iran but then they would be a pariah in the world,even to the US.But they are not like that,I would hope.They dont even admit they have nuclear weapons.I would say Iran is the one who better be careful about what they do.
Yes we have seen them threaten to use their nukes.They told the US that they were running out of munitions and other equipment during the 73 war, and would use their nuclear weapons.Reports even showed they had rolled out some of the missiles from storage to get them ready.That scared us so badly,that if they used them,the Soviets would be forced to attack Israel with nukes to support their Arab allies.Bringing us into it and starting WW3.So we rushed tons of new munitions and other equipment to Israel,and eliminating that threat.Now after that blackmail,after the war.Our government should have forced Israel to give up the nukes.But once again,as now.Internal US politics holds us hostage to the Israel Lobby.
Well said!!!!!!!!!! But this time around, I don't think Russia and China are going to sit back and let little Israel @!$%# around with one of there main oil sources. I hope they do attack Iran, just so i can watch those Jews get wiped of the map. Then lets see the religious nut jobs eat there words....
Those jews that you and your leftist so hate are the only one's keeping the Islamist from destroying all of you bleeding hearts. You really think that Islam wants to co-exsist with anyone. In Islam it is complete domination of all religions and people of this world as stated by their "holy book" the quran when that happens democracy will no longer exsist and the Law will be the quran and it's imans. So evertime you sit down and pray to whatever GOD you believe in or use your right of freedom of speech you can thank those JEWS that you so hate for defending it because once Isreal is destroyed the rest of the world will soon follow.
You must be smoking something trini. Israel has never done a thing for which we should thank them. Israel and Zionists were behind the Iraq war, which will end up costing America over 3 trillion dollars and you think we should be thanking Israel.
Zionist warmongers like Ken Adelman and the Zionist Washington Post pushed the war in an editorial titled, “Cakewalk in Iraq.” Jewish supremacists Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz told you that Iraq would “Welcome us as liberators.” Iraq became the longest war in American history. Here is a report from USA Today: “Pentagon officials estimated for the first time Wednesday that up to 360,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans may have suffered traumatic brain injuries.” Now that’s not counting tens of thousands who have suffered maiming, amputations, or death in this war based on lies.
We must stop aid to those parasites. We have just had tornados ravage much of our nation. Our states need the money. Send aid that has been earmarked for Israel to those states which were hit by the tornados. They pay taxes to our American government and send men to die or be maimed in wars for Israel, while all Israel does is collect from the US government, never sending one soldier to a war they helped plan and sell.
RalphH YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION ABOVE...
I'm Pro ISRAEL....AND YOU??????????
Not trying to hijack your question TWICED SCREWED but I want to here this guys answer to your question and also ask why he didn't suggest we stop all payments to N Korea along with food when we have starving kids in our own country? How about we kick the UN out of the US and stop paying them billions of dollars for doing nothing more than starting crap and then demanding the US be the country to sacrifice it's people. And I'll tell you this much RalphH, be glad this site is moderated because I'll tell you right now your liberal ant Semitic gibberish about the War is just that. You obviously never served and being that I was willing to give my life for this country and provide freedom to the people of Iraq, your theory is complete and utter BS with zero facts.
(Here is a report from USA Today: “Pentagon officials estimated for the first time Wednesday that up to 360,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans may have suffered traumatic brain injuries.” Now that’s not counting tens of thousands who have suffered maiming, amputations, or death in this war based on lies.)
You know, I served in 2 combat conflicts and guess what? I do not get one cent for PTSD which is what your "USA Today alleged facts" are talking about when they say brain injury. Sorry to say this but many people getting home from Iraq or Afg know that PTSD is almost a guaranteed 100% disability payment every month and if you can get $3000+ a month with full medical for saying you have bad dreams, why wouldn't you? I'm saying this in reference to those who never even set foot on sand and are all the sudden PTSD cases. In Nam, those vets seen things our guys to include myself never seen yet very few to this day got diagnosed with brain injury. When you come home to find out there are no jobs and tha the country you left has almost no economy,claims go up just like SSi/SDI claims went up 700% due to the unemployment rate in america, I'm sure all those "maimed" indaviduals fell at the hands of those who believe in "jihad" rather than because the zionists created a fictious war.
It i so obvious from your post your one of them anti Israel types who push liberal propaganda so rather than attempt to provide more facts against your ridicules claims..................I just ask you respect and think about those of us who have served and know that the war had nothing to do with Zionist or neocon warmongers. People who rant with this type of rhetoric show nothing more than pure intolerance and ignorance, please seek some psychological help.
I almost forgot, do you know why Israel does not send it's forces to fight along side of the US or vise versa? Because we do not want to add fuel to the fire about the US/Israel BS that fills the minds of all these radical morons in the middle east who feel that Israel and the West are Satan and that Allah told them in a dream, vision, or on a tortia they ate for lunch that they are called to murder all of us. I can see it now, the entire Muslim world hears the news, US and Israel team up together to remove Nuke threat from Iran to preserve life for not only Israel and the US but to all the other Muslims who are deathly afraid of Iran but afraid to speak out due to the rape and murder of their families just like under Saddam's control...............But hey, you probably didn't know that part so I'll let that one go................
Rob - I post facts all the time.
Question - Where were Israeli troops in Korea? Where were they in Vietnam? The Iraqis know very well America was there because of Zionist efforts. Israel has never fought alongside American troops in any endeavor. Israel just builds the cases for war and sell them to the politicians and American public with fear mongering tales of WMD, mobile biological weapons labs, anthrax attacks and forged Niger documents. They put articles in the newspapers promising short wars with no costs.
Here is an example. Lets have a comment.
Zionist warmongers like Ken Adelman and the Zionist Washington Post pushed the war in an editorial titled, “Cakewalk in Iraq.” Jewish supremacists Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz told you that Iraq would “Welcome us as liberators.” Iraq became the longest war in American history. Here is a report from USA Today: “Pentagon officials estimated for the first time Wednesday that up to 360,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans may have suffered traumatic brain injuries.” Now that’s not counting tens of thousands who have suffered maiming, amputations, or death in this war based on lies.
JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli intelligence overplayed the threat posed by Iraq and reinforced the U.S. and British assessment that Saddam Hussein had large amounts of weapons of mass destruction, a retired Israeli general said Thursday.
The Israeli assessment may have been colored by politics, including a desire to see the Iraqi leader toppled, said Shlomo Brom, who was a senior Israeli military intelligence officer and is now a researcher with Israel's top strategic think tank.
Brom stopped short of accusing Israeli intelligence officials of intentionally misleading Britain and the United States.
His assertions could, however, undermine the reputation of the Israeli intelligence service, one of the most respected in the world.
Any comments on these facts, Rob? I don't make this stuff up. The Iraq war was a war planned and sold by Zionists and it will cost America over 3 trillion dollars. You Zionists are still not satisfied. You want America to be involved in another war, this time in Iran. You make one want to puke.
Rob - Twiced...
spin this...
THE ACTUAL QUOTE:
So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi:
"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."
THE PROOF:
The full quote translated directly to English:
"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".
Word by word translation:
Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
we all know how this story ends... BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!
Well said Bud V.! And I would hope that if one of our neighbors were dedicated to 'wiping' us off the map (not a lie at all, MANY prominent figures from within the Iranian Regime have repeatedly stated their desire to destory Israel), and were getting involved with anything nuclear, I would hope that WE THE PEOPLE would demand that our government protect us! That is the first and most important job for any government, however, the world DEMANDS Israel stand down...until when, until it's too late...Perfect. The issue is no longer about an Israeli/Palestinian problem, it threatens to drag the entire world into a war. It should have been dealt with decisively from the very begining. Now, as time has went on and on more and more battle lines have been drawn until the outcome is assured, utter destruction of a rational solution.
And yet DRA,many people in Israel.Including their intelligence services say attacking Iran is a bad idea.Even those people don't believe Iran is building a bomb.Nor that they plan on attacking Israel.The ones pushing for war are the right-wing in Israel,and the neo-cons and Israel Lobby here.People can get the info I just posted by reading the Israeli press.Their press isn't right-wing (at least a big portion of it).
Uncle Bob 512, one thing is for sure, time will tell. I'm not convinced that everyone from the Israeli press or their intelligence services believes what you are saying they do, maybe some do, that's their opinion. And I'm also not convinced that any news source is without bias and should be trusted, it's your choice which you choose to 'believe in'. Just one question, what if you are being misguided, I mean, what if everyone buys what you say is the truth and Iran is allowed to continue whatever it is they're doing and then one day they nuke Israel? Israel is a tiny 'one shot' country, it would be too late for them at that point. The powers that be are deceiving and being deceived. Time will expose the turth but will we be around to see it?
Is there anyone who thinks this isn't going to happen? lol
China...they don't to a damn thing. Never have. There entire military has absolutely zero combat experience.
I think Israel has nuclear weapons an will use them if necessary. Go Israel!!
Hey Morons! (That is all comments people)-No one cares what you think if if any you do at all. FO. Push the button and aim the nukes this way. Thank God, no more stupid comments from the retarded. Get it over with and then send more! Horray!
Yea... I remember Truman and company talking about that back in 1950's... and then the hoards came across the border in Korea. The USA works differently from China..... The USA has to have the BEST of everything in limited numbers... China has "good enough" in zillions of quantities.. and after we run out of bullets and airplanes... guess who wins?... China right now is laughing all the way to the bank (notice who now has a presence in outer space and who's rockets we are riding into outer space?)... sure the heck don't come from Koch Industries....
Gary S. Soliloquy?
Very harsh Gary...some anger management issues? Well...anyway. Wow, folks you couldn't write a better fiction novel, could you ? The suspense is thick enough to cut with a knife. Two regional powers with intermediate range missiles (maybe even nuclear) trash talking directly and through intermediaries. The US releases information laying out for the Iranians a game plan for how the Israelis might attack. Who knows...a complex game of feint and counter-feint by the United States...nah, I don't believe anyone would be that reckless, but imagine for a moment the US hasn't had any luck diplomatically with getting the Iranians to stop weapons development, the Israeli's are increasingly uncomfortable with the lack of progress and hint they may have to act in the foreseeable future. The US certainly does not need instability (excuse me...more instability) in the region that might effect oil and the economic recovery...so they perform the "proxy saber rattle", the US makes an open show of publicly dissuading the Israelis from making an attack. The US isn't going to threaten Iran directly (we don't have the cultural/moral/military/economic reservoir left), but they certainly can't afford to allow the Iranians to push them around too much (encourages really bad behaviours). So the US floats rumors of an impending Israeli attack to: A) see if the Iranian flinch, B) gauge Iranian reactions by monitoring Iranian preparations for the impending attack C) gauge the "political winds" in the region (who lines up with whom and who just sits on their hands, D) scare everyone else to exert more pressure on the Iranians...no one wants the Gulf to "light up" and choke the flow of oil...particularly the Chinese, Japan and all points east.
For the time being, I would say to Israel....you introduced nuclear weapons into the Middle East...learn to live with the"bomb" the way we did during the cold war when the former Soviet Union had enough THERMONUCLEAR weapons to wipe us off the face of the map.
Ah no, they didn't. India had nukes in the works before Israel was even Israel before May 14, 1948. India was dealing with China thinking Russia was in their corner and found out otherwise because Russia was more worried about the US at the time. India asked for the US to help and we did by sending our Navy causing China to stop acting like bullies. The US didn't provide nuke material to India or Israel as you say, You have to put down "The sum of all fears" as a factual source of info. So again, no, Israel was far from being the ones to introduce nukes in the Middle East and as a matter of fact Pakistan, India and N Korea were nuke armed countries while Israel was in the developmental stage with help from France, not the US. Israel made an oath that they would not be the first to bring nuclear weapons to the Middle East and your not knowing this shocks me with the bold accusation you stated. Israel refused to sign the "NPT" and lucky for them the did. Can anyone imagine if Israel didn't have nukes as a deterrent what would have been attempted on them by now? Anyhow, Iran is something Israel has zero choice to deal with because of the idiot we have in the white house and his "anti Israel/pro Muslim" agenda and the fact that the UN acts like a giant Obama that's blames Bush even when Israel has every right/justification to defend herself as they have while being railed as the ones who started it yet the very same group of terrorists come out and swear Israels destruction and the UN smirks while counting the taxpayers blessings from the US to further push their own anti US/Israel ideology. Fortunately, I don't worry about Israel and what might or could happen because simply put, no one will defeat Israel ever again. I know that's a bold statement and I am willing to eat crow if I must but I would bet my bottom dollar on that statement being fact rather than opinion.
Screw those israeli elites, fu-k em stupid, egotistical a-holes. When is the last time any american news channel said @!$%# about israel? Never because israeli elites keep their mouths shut while they make themselves look innocent and iran looks guilty. Iranian elites might be crazy but I think we seen enough bullcrap about them. What about israelis? Never hear nothing about em. America claims iran is the enemy yet iran has been given high tech american level military weaponry by the same dumb morons who ridicules them. Dont believe me, what else but an american made military system could detect an advanced american drone. You only Fight fire with fire as they say. Israel claims to be vulnerable and yet gets billions from the U.S and is claiming iran has nuclear weapons when they themselves have one! The Americans said iran had nuclear weapons capability months ago. Then they should have one by now! They are just moving their little political chess pieces right and when things are set and ready they will strike. Making all the middle east look bad while stealing from them at the same time. Motherfu-kers