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Subscribe to RSSWilliston, N.D., a once sleepy prairie land, has turned into a place with thousands of available jobs. An oil boom has led to an influx in the town's population and jobs. Rock Center's Harry Smith reports.
Oil drilling has sparked a frenzied prosperity in Jeff Keller's formerly quiet corner of western North Dakota in recent years, bringing an infusion of jobs and reviving moribund local businesses.
But Keller, a natural resource manager for the Army Corps of Engineers, has seen a more ominous effect of the boom, too: Oil companies are spilling and dumping drilling waste onto the region's land and into its waterways with increasing regularity.
Hydraulic fracturing — the controversial process behind the spread of natural gas drilling — is enabling oil companies to reach previously inaccessible reserves in North Dakota, triggering a turnaround not only in the state's fortunes, but also in domestic energy production. North Dakota now ranks second behind only Texas in oil output nationwide.
The downside is waste — lots of it. Companies produce millions of gallons of salty, chemical-infused wastewater, known as brine, as part of drilling and fracking each well. Drillers are supposed to inject this material thousands of feet underground into disposal wells, but some of it isn't making it that far.
According to data obtained by ProPublica, oil companies in North Dakota reported more than 1,000 accidental releases of oil, drilling wastewater or other fluids in 2011, about as many as in the previous two years combined. Many more illicit releases went unreported, state regulators acknowledge, when companies dumped truckloads of toxic fluid along the road or drained waste pits illegally.
Rock Center's Harry Smith joins Brian Williams to answer viewer-submitted questions about Williston, the North Dakota town booming with jobs.
State officials say most of the releases are small. But in several cases, spills turned out to be far larger than initially thought, totaling millions of gallons. Releases of brine, which is often laced with carcinogenic chemicals and heavy metals, have wiped out aquatic life in streams and wetlands and sterilized farmland. The effects on land can last for years, or even decades.
Compounding such problems, state regulators have often been unable — or unwilling — to compel energy companies to clean up their mess, our reporting showed.
Under North Dakota regulations, the agencies that oversee drilling and water safety can sanction companies that dump or spill waste, but they seldom do: They have issued fewer than 50 disciplinary actions for all types of drilling violations, including spills, over the past three years.
Keller has filed several complaints with the state during this time span after observing trucks dumping wastewater and spotting evidence of a spill in a field near his home. He was rebuffed or ignored every time, he said.
"There's no enforcement," said Keller, 50, an avid outdoorsman who has spent his career managing Lake Sakakawea, a reservoir created by damming the Missouri River. "None."
State officials say they rely on companies to clean up spills voluntarily, and that in most cases, they do. Mark Bohrer, who oversees spill reports for the Department of Mineral Resources, the agency that regulates drilling, said the number of spills is acceptable given the pace of drilling and that he sees little risk of long-term damage.
Kris Roberts, who responds to spills for the Health Department, which protects state waters, agreed, but acknowledged that the state does not have the manpower to prevent or respond to illegal dumping.
"It's happening often enough that we see it as a significant problem," he said. "What's the solution? Catching them. What's the problem? Catching them."
Ron Ness, president of the North Dakota Petroleum Council, a lobbying group, said the industry is doing what it can to minimize spills and their impacts.
"You're going to have spills when you have more activity," he said. "I would think North Dakotans would say the industry is doing a good job."
In response to rising environmental concerns related to drilling waste, North Dakota's legislature passed a handful of new regulations this year, including a rule that bars storing wastewater in open pits.
CNBC's Brian Shactman has the key takeaways on the White House's proposed new rules and regulations on fracking and whether it will hurt or help domestic energy exploration and jobs, with Gov. Matt Mead, (R-WY).
Still, advocates for landowners say they have seen little will, at either the state or federal level, to impose limits that could slow the pace of drilling.
The Obama administration is facilitating drilling projects on federal land in western North Dakota by expediting environmental reviews. North Dakota's Gov. Jack Dalrymple has urged energy companies to see his administration as a "faithful and long-term partner."
"North Dakota's political leadership is still in the mold where a lot of our oil and gas policy reflects a strong desire to have another oil boom," said Mark Trechock, who headed the Dakota Resource Council, a landowner group that has pushed for stronger oversight, until his retirement this year. "Well, we got it now."
Reaching 'the Crazy Point'
Keller's office in Williston is as good a spot as any to see the impacts of the oil boom.
The tiny prefab shack — cluttered with mounted fish, piles of antlers and a wolf pelt Keller bought in Alaska — is wedged between a levee that holds back Missouri River floodwaters and a new oil well, topped by a blazing gas flare. Just beyond the oil well sits an intersection where Keller estimates he saw an accident a week during one stretch last year due to increased traffic from drilling.
Keller describes the changes to his hometown in a voice just short of a yell, as if he's competing with nearby engine noise. Local grocery stores can barely keep shelves stocked and the town movie theater is so crowded it seats people in the aisle, he said. The cost of housing has skyrocketed, with some apartments fetching rents similar to those in New York City.
Gregory Bull / AP
Click the view images of living conditions in the North Dakota oil fields.
"With the way it is now," Keller said, "you're getting to the crazy point."
Oil companies are drilling upwards of 200 wells each month in northwestern North Dakota, an area roughly twice the size of New Jersey.
North Dakota is pumping more than 575,000 barrels of oil a day now, more than double what the state produced two years ago. Expanded drilling in the state has helped overall U.S. oil production grow for the first time in a quarter century, stoking hopes for greater energy independence.
NBC's Rock Center: Thousands of jobs from North Dakota's boom
It has also reinvigorated North Dakota's once-stagnant economy. Unemployment sits at 3 percent. The activity has reversed a population decline that began in the mid-1980s, when the last oil boom went bust.
The growth has come at a cost, however. At a conference on oil field infrastructure in October, one executive noted that McKenzie County, which sits in the heart of the oil patch and had a population of 6,360 people in 2010, required nearly $200 million in road repairs.
The number of spill reports, which generally come from the oil companies themselves, nearly doubled from 2010 to 2011. Energy companies report their spills to the Department of Mineral Resources, which shares them with the Health Department. The two agencies work together to investigate incidents.
Boone Pickens, CEO of BP Capital Management, and Rep. Tom Perriello talks about the future of natural gas in America and whether fracking is dangerous for the environment.
In December, a stack of reports a quarter-inch thick piled up on Kris Roberts' desk. He received 34 new cases in the first week of that month alone.
"Is it a big issue?" he said. "Yes, it is."
The Health Department has added three staffers to handle the influx and the Department of Mineral Resources is increasing its workforce by 30 percent, but Roberts acknowledges they can't investigate every report.
Even with the new hires, the Department of Mineral Resources still has fewer field inspectors than agencies in other drilling states. Oklahoma, for example, which has comparable drilling activity, has 58 inspectors to North Dakota's 19.
Of the 1,073 releases reported last year, about 60 percent involved oil and one-third spread brine. In about two-thirds of the cases, material was not contained to the accident site and leaked into the ground or waterways.
But the official data gives only a partial picture, Roberts said, missing an unknown number of unreported incidents.
"One, five, 10, 100? If it didn't get reported, how do you count them?" he said.
He said truckers often dump their wastewater rather than wait in line at injection wells. The Department of Mineral Resources asks companies how much brine their wells produce and how much they dispose of as waste, but its inspectors don't audit those numbers. Short of catching someone in the act, there's no way to stop illegal dumping.
The state also has no real estimate for how much fluid spills out accidentally from tanks, pipes, trucks and other equipment. Companies are supposed to report spill volumes, but officials acknowledge the numbers are often inexact or flat-out wrong. In 40 cases last year, the company responsible didn't know how much had spilled so it simply listed the volume of fluid as zero.
In one case last July, workers for Petro Harvester, a small, Texas-based oil company, noticed a swath of dead vegetation in a field near one of the company's saltwater disposal lines. The company reported the spill the next day, estimating that 12,600 gallons of brine had leaked.
When state and county officials came to assess the damage, however, they found evidence of a much larger accident. The leak, which had gone undetected for days or weeks, had sterilized about 24 acres of land. Officials later estimated the spill to be at least 2 million gallons of brine, Roberts said, which would make it the largest ever in the state.
Yet state records still put the volume at 12,600 gallons and Roberts sees no reason to change it.
"It's almost like rubbing salt in a raw wound," Roberts said, criticizing efforts to tabulate a number as "bean counting." Changing a report would not change reality, nor would it help anyone, he added. "If we try to go back and revisit the past over and over and over again, what's it going to do? Nothing good."
In a written statement, Petro Harvester said tests showed the spill had not contaminated groundwater and that it would continue monitoring the site for signs of damage. State records show the company hired a contractor to cover the land with 40 truckloads of a chemical that leaches salt from the soil.
Nearly a year later, however, even weeds won't grow in the area, said Darwin Peterson, who farms the land. While Petro Harvester has promised to compensate him for lost crops, Peterson said he hasn't heard from the company in months and he doesn't expect the land to be usable for years. "It's pretty devastating," he said.
Little enforcement
The Department of Mineral Resources and the Health Department have the authority to sanction companies that spill or dump fluids, but they rarely do.
The Department of Mineral Resources has issued just 45 enforcement actions over the last three years. Spokeswoman Alison Ritter could not say how many of those were for spills or releases, as opposed to other drilling violations, or how many resulted in fines.
The Health Department has taken just one action against an oil company in the past three years, citing Continental Resources for oil and brine spills that turned two streams into temporary toxic dumps. The department initially fined Continental $328,500, plus about $14,000 for agency costs. Ultimately, however, the state settled and Continental paid just $35,000 in fines.
The agency has not yet penalized Petro Harvester for the July spill, thought it has issued a notice of violation and could impose a fine in the future, Roberts said, one of several spill-related enforcement actions the agency is considering.
Derrick Braaten, a Bismarck lawyer whose firm represents dozens of farmers and landowner groups, said his clients often get little support from regulators when oil companies damage their property.
State officials step in in the largest cases, he said, but let smaller ones slide. Landowners can sue, but most prefer to take whatever drillers offer rather than taking their chances in court.
"The oil company will say, that's worth $400 an acre, so here's $400 for ruining that acre," Braaten said.
Daryl Peterson, a client of Braaten's who is not related to Darwin Peterson, said a series of drilling waste releases stretching back 15 years have rendered several acres unusable of the 2,000 or so he farms. The state has not compelled the companies that caused the damage to repair it, he said. Peterson hasn't wanted to spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars it would take to haul out the dirt and replace it, so the land lies fallow.
"I pay taxes on that land," he said.
At least 15 North Dakota residents, frustrated with state officials' inaction, have taken drilling-related complaints to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in the last two years, records show.
Last September, for example, a rancher near Williston told the EPA that Brigham Oil and Gas had plowed through the side of a waste pit [10], sending fluid into the pond his cattle drink from and a nearby creek. When the rancher called Brigham to complain, he said, an employee told him this was "the way they do business."
A spokeswoman for Statoil, which acquired Brigham, said the company stores only fresh water in open pits, not wastewater, and that "we can't remember ever having responded in such a manner" to a report about a spill.
Federal officials can offer little relief.
Congress has largely delegated oversight of oil field spills to the states. EPA spokesman Richard Mylott said the agency investigates complaints about releases on federal lands, but refers complaints involving private property to state regulators.
The EPA handed the complaint about Brigham to an official with North Dakota's Health Department, who said he had already spoken to the company.
"They said this was an isolated occurrence, this is not how they handle frac water and it would not happen again," the official wrote to the EPA. "As far as we are concerned, this complaint is closed."
Salting the Earth
Six years ago, a four-inch saltwater pipeline ruptured just outside Linda Monson's property line, leaking about a million gallons of salty wastewater.
As it cascaded down a hill and into Charbonneau Creek, which cuts through Monson's pasture, the spill deposited metals and carcinogenic hydrocarbons in the soil. The toxic brew wiped out the creek's fish, turtles and other life, reaching 15 miles downstream.
After suing Zenergy Inc., the oil company that owns the line, Monson reached a settlement that restricts what she can say about the incident.
"When this first happened, it pretty much consumed my life," Monson said. "Now I don't even want to think about it."
The company has paid a $70,000 fine and committed to cleaning the site, but the case shows how difficult the cleanup can be. When brine leaks into the ground, the sodium binds to the soil, displacing other minerals and inhibiting plants' ability to absorb nutrients and water. Short of replacing the soil, the best option is to try to speed the natural flushing of the system, which can take decades.
Zenergy has tried both. According to a Department of Mineral Resources report, the company has spent more than $3 million hauling away dirt and pumping out contaminated groundwater — nearly 31 million gallons as of December 2010, the most recent data available.
But more than a dozen acres of Monson's pasture remain fenced off and out of use. The cattle no longer drink from the creek, which was their main water source. Zenergy dug a well to replace it.
Shallow groundwater in the area remains thousands of times saltier than it should be and continues to leak into the stream and through the ground, contaminating new areas.
There's little understanding of what long-term impacts hundreds of such releases could be having on western North Dakota's land and water, said Micah Reuber.
Until last year, Reuber was the environmental contaminant specialist in North Dakota for the federal Fish and Wildlife Service, which oversees wetlands and waterways.
Reuber quit after growing increasingly frustrated with the inadequate resources devoted to the position. Responding to oil field spills was supposed to be a small part of his job, but it came to consume all of his time.
"It didn't seem like we were keeping pace with it at all," he said. "It got to be demoralizing."
Reuber said no agency, federal or state, has the money or staff to study the effects of drilling waste releases in North Dakota. The closest thing is a small ongoing federal study across the border in Montana, where scientists are investigating how decades of oil production have affected the underground water supply for the city of Poplar.
Joanna Thamke, a groundwater specialist with the U.S. Geological Survey in Montana, started mapping contamination from drilling 20 years ago. She estimated it had spread through about 12 square miles of the aquifer, which is the only source of drinking water in the area. Over the years, brine had leaked through old well bores, buried waste pits and aging tanks and pipes.
In the Poplar study and others, Thamke has found that plumes of contaminated groundwater can take decades to dissipate and sometimes move to new areas.
"What we found is the plumes, after two decades, have not gone away," she said. "They've spread out."
Poplar's water supply is currently safe to drink, but the EPA has said it will become too salty as the contamination spreads. In March, the agency ordered three oil companies to treat the water or to find another source.
North Dakota officials are quick to point out that oversight and regulations are stronger today than they were when drilling began in the area in the 1950s. One significant difference is that waste pits, where oil companies store and dispose of the rock and debris produced during drilling, are now lined with plastic to prevent leaching into the ground.
New rules, effective April 1, require drillers in North Dakota to divert liquid waste to tanks instead of pits. Until now, drillers could store the liquid in pits for up to a year before pumping it out in order to bury the solids on site. The rule would prevent a repeat of the spring of 2011, when record snowmelt and flooding caused dozens of pits to overflow their banks.
But Reuber worries that the industry and regulators are repeating past mistakes. Not long before he left the Fish and Wildlife Service, he found a set of old slides showing waste pits and spills from decades ago.
"They looked almost exactly like photos I had taken," he said. "There's a spill into a creek bottom in the Badlands and it was sitting there with no one cleaning it up and containing it. And yeah, I got a photo like that, too."
Keller has grown so dispirited by the changes brought by the boom that he is considering retiring after 30 years with the Army Corps and moving away from Williston. He runs a side business in scrap metal that would supplement his pension.
Still, determined to protect the area, he keeps alerting regulators whenever he spots evidence that oil companies have dumped or spilled waste.
Last July, when he saw signs of a spill near his home, Keller notified the Health Department and sent pictures showing a trail of dead grass to an acquaintance at the EPA regional office in Denver. The brown swath led from a well site into a creek.
If the spills continued, he warned the EPA in an email, they could "kill off the entire watershed."
EPA officials said they spoke with Keller, but did not follow up on the incident beyond that. The state never responded, Keller said. The site remained untested and was never cleaned up.
"There was no restoration work whatsoever," Keller said.
Leave a Comment:
Drill Baby Drill!
State officials say they rely on companies to clean up spills voluntarily. Mark Bohrer said the number of spills is acceptable given the pace of drilling and that he sees little risk of long-term damage.
Right. We know how well these companies self police themselves. They have a sterling track record. Maybe someone should check Mr Bohrer's bank acoount. I would be willing to bet the oil companies have bought him off.
Drill Baby Drill, hell I don't live there so Drill Baby Drill .... That's just my Republican thoughts.
Welcome to the world of oil. Shell makes $45 billion in profit? So what if it came out your pocket. The Feds and state govts will NOT do a thing. North Dakota is ruined? Try to prove it was their fault. The oil co's will deny that even the trucks with their insignia on them are their trucks. Oil knows its time is limited, yet it does nothing as if it is a sweet lil' ol' lady. No, it is a whore that uses others, then guts them and takes their insides out. Then it throws the carcass on the ground and complains that "others" arent cleaning up their mess. My gosh, didnt anyone get this clear picture from the Gulf spill last year?????? THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU. They just want you to keep buying their gas so they can make up false excuses for why it is so expensive. A refinery is down? Really? And one refinery causes ALL gas to go up $0.50???? Why not build a new refinery?? Oh, you cant decide where to build it?? How about somewhere in the 48 states? We wont even consider Hawaii or Alaska. No, no, that is too simple and I just dont know about oil. Right. Yes. Oil is SOOOOOOOOO tough to figure out. What crooks.
What we need is more de-regulation, so that all these job creators can rape and pillage our resources unencumbered by pesky environmental regulations... vote for Romney to accomplish that!
And people say we don't need the EPA to tell business its illegal to dump because it hurts business when they have to spend money for proper disposal....
@RWING
Did I miss that part of the story or are you just prone to exaggeration?
They can self-regulate like the banks. No need for regulation, it's a job killer. Also, I don't live there either and the water doesn't go by me so, drill baby drill. It's a local issue and if the locals don't care, neither do I.
All that bally-hoo about debt for future generations
...and the OIL COMPANIES are ensuring that there won't be FUTURE GENERATIONS
if we pollute the earth
or keep fighting wars.
.
.
Rememer what MOM said..."CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELVES"
There's a spill into a creek bottom in the Badlands and it was sitting there with no one cleaning it up and containing it
And the GOP and the Oil Companies together want the rest of the country to look like this. Don't tell me that that idiot Sarah Palin knows absolutely ANYTHING about the environment and the damage that cheap oil bring. It does not matter. They are turning the US into a gigantic cesspool already. Isn't it a surprise that the GOP is always telling us that the universe was built in 7 days, and that not believing in that is anti patriotic, and a WAR against "good christian families"?
What is antipatriotic is keep on using these FOSSIL FUELS (Look at the dictionary for the word FOSSIL) and keep on poisoning the population, so they can continue with their lifestyle of rich and famous. The GOP is nothing but a reality show, fueled by Paul Ryan and all those other Republican morons that seat in Washington.
No, no, no. You absolutely CANNOT tell these guys where and how they can dump their waste, that's job/wealth killing regulation!
Its the American way ... the rich get richer the middle class lives with it ... Capitolism at its finest .. why not completely defund the EPA .. they just get in the way of Capitolism with all their health worries
But some of the food you eat, like wheat, corn, beef, pork is raised there. And it uses the contaminated water.
Solyndra never polluted....
yes, it was failed attempt for this particular kind of solar technology, but the know-it-alls in BIG OIL can't seem to control their messes...
and at WHAT COST?
This article repeats over and over how spills are basically over-looked.
BIG MONEY, BIG OIL...BIG LOBBYISTS...so much for We The People.
Drill and spill. It's the GOP way. I like that. It that has a nice ring to it. Almost as good as Dump and Run. You know, the GOP solution to environmental concerns.
Big money talks as ND farmers take a big environmental hit to their land and water. ND farmers should know that Wisconsin farmers are selling off their farms for big bucks to companies mining the fracking sand that is doing ND in. In return, WI not only gets water and soil pollution from the mining but air pollution from the dust also - a pollution three-fer!
WARNING:
A TANGLE OF LAWSUITS
Birth Defects
Fish Kills
Polluted water
Cancer out-breaks
contaminated soil
....the Oii Companies have highly paid LAWYERS ready to dispute all the evidence,
but
NO money
for preventative caution and care.
This is CRAZY BUSINESS PRACTICES, yet it is allowed to happen.
Tonight you'll see a TV Commercial costing thousands of dollars to be re-played over & over extolling the virtues of oil drilling.
Lovely folks in white lab coats smiling and telling you how clean & pure the industry is.
Republicans still bag on the President for his oil policy when he is doing exactly what they want. It goes to show that Republicans are not able to give and take, only take. And when all is said and done, its the President's fault that gas prices are high, not the greedy oil companies, and certainly not the greedy investors who were pushing up the prices. Its funny that those saying drill, baby, drill are driving pickups that don't even get 25mpg on the highway, and the only thing they're hauling is their own fat butts.
GoJoBiden
actually I think Cheney had more to do with the Halliburton loophole than Bush !!!
This is part of the true cost of our dependence on oil that IS NOT reflected in the cost paid. These oil companies take their obscene profits and NEVER pay the costs, that is left to us, with our land and water polluted, higher healthcare costs due to that pollution and now they can just BUY the politicians into office so they @!$%# us even more. I'm damn glad I don't live there OR along the Keystone pipeline. I'd be worried if I lived near it.
It definitly brought wealth, well lots more money to my working son.
Ahh, the upside, and downside, of free market capitalism. The over-regulated, demonized, job creators.
But looking at new forms of energy is a waste of money....could you have imagined if we kept the cell phone in that huge bag we had when it first came out?
As Churchill said, "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing — after they've tried everything else."
Oil companies spilling and dumping waste?
Who woulda thunk?
Liberals, this is where you can shine and show the proper use of government.
Do not overreach and demonize the whole industry. Probably less than 10% of the people are doing things wrong, throw the frigging book at them, but support the vast majority that are doing things correctly!
GO NORTH YOUNG MAN..and if you have any type of degree in "environmental protection" indeed go to North Dakota...$$$$$$$$!
If the process of "fracking" (including all the waste and everything) is so damn safe, and all that drilling is so beneficial - why don't any of the people who make these claims live anywhere near where it's all being done?
No, they have to live at least two hundred miles away, where it really is safe.
Go enjoy the pristine Dakota lands...before they are a waste dump. But at least the gas to get you there was cheap...just like your morals.
"Oil companies are spilling and dumping drilling waste onto the region's land and into its waterways with increasing regularity. " Someone "could" stop that, but why regulate things like toxic spills where these is MONEY to be made...from raping the land...
Debora-389330
And how is that money going to help those who get sick and die because of all the waste they ingest? When your primary concern is money, your soul is the first to become poisoned.
This is a clear cut example of the Republican mantra about letting business regulate themselves.
Republicans are sooooooooooooo phuckingggggggggggggg stuuuuuuuuuuupid.
Rod, your racism is noted.
haha Debora, "It definitly brought wealth, well lots more money to my working son." Good to hear your son is doing well. F the next generation though.
you obviously have no clue what the term means.
Quacked, my son has children to feed and where he was living he didn't have a job and couldn't find word. If you think him being a diesel machanic is going to harm the furture then good for you.
We have to drill for oil in the US, I believe we are all sick to death of paying for oil from other countries. Our people need jobs. If you needed a job you'd be there too. I know about a lot of the things they do my son has explained it to me.
Get off your high horses and realize our people need work.
Easy fix, if a spill occurs then the penalty is to dump the same amount on the CEO's estate. I bet they would dramatically reduce spills.
get off YOUR high horse and realize that your son is not more important than the health of the people who live near this crap!
i DON'T CARE how much money it provides SOME people if it is killing children!!!!
There is always a price to pay for "progress".
Everybody wants to live in comfort, right. Well, you need to pay for it. Sometimes its money, sometimes with affects on the environment. It's not killing the earth, it just makes the green freaks squirm and that's OK too.
yeah wouldnt it be fantastic if each person who yelled drill baby drill was legally bound to have one in THEIR well/backyard?
but they dont mean for that to happen.. its supposed to go in the poor peoples neighborhood. they dont count afterall.
ps, notice the PALTRY of opposition on this thread! they have NOTHING to say cause this stuff cant be argued.
Let's do that Keystone pipeline thing, Mitt. Just because the Republican Governor is concerned about it leaking onto the third largest aquafer in the United States does not mean it could possibly happen.
And who is that lady in the suit that tells us on television that drilling for oil is a good thing. You would think she was a spokesperson for Chevron!
If you needed a job you'd be there too.
Sure! I would love to be an enviormental LAWYER to make sure that I get my share from all the people posoning the enviornment. I will get everybody SUED.
You are correct: It would be a BONANZA for me.
posioning americans is NOT progress! only to hackjob gop members! we KNOW you only care about money above all else and thats why we do everything we can to keep you out of power! for this VERY reason.
go ahead and put one in YOUR yard and dont cry to me when your kids get tumors. F-ck your "progress!"
Referencing 1.34
Debora'son who is a "diesel machanic" (sic) explained the intricacies, science, economics, distribution, research, transporting,refinery, etc. of oil production to her.
Interesting that her informed BIAS trumps environmental reports, liabilities, caualties, damages, lawsuits, and the crux of this news item.
Just like I've stated many a time, our new motto should be, "We aren't China, but we're getting there."
Anyone here working on one of these drilling sites? Yeah, didn't think so, lol...
I personally can't wait until we have a viable replacement for oil. If one existed, we'd be using it (despite what the consipiracy theorists would have you believe).
Been there - peaked, and now we're regressing. Completely.
Referencing 1.37
TRY READING THE ARTICLE, doing some research, or drinking some fouled water supply before you make such a statement.
Common sense would tell you that there are alternate energy options and SAFER , precationary ways to drill, dump and transport.
Looks like they learned from W when he was gov of Texas, Let the companies set their own pace in cleaning up the environment since they know the best way to clean it up without hurting the economy. It has worked so well here in Texas, not.
In 25 years North Dakota will be the poster child of why we regulate and why we want green energies to replace fossil fuels badly.
What's best for money is not what is best for humanity and society
Sorry for the spill. The earth will reclaim it eventually. Please be patient.
It comes from demand -- I blame the people who continually buy new cell phones, another TV, another PC, new cars and all the products that start from a petroleum base. Your car might run on electricity, you may grocery shop with re-usable baggies, but the gas companies will still play a part in everything you own or use. You Californian types are the reason we need so much petroleum. So shut up and keep buying. Did I mention...Ted down the street got one. I need one too. I don't know what it's for but it's got a sphincter button. My old one didn't have a sphincter button. Got me a new one....awesome
What I would like to know is how all of you that are bitching manage to live your lives without oil? Is your computer made of twigs and bark? Do you walk everywhere? Do you grow and raise all of your own food? Somehow I suspect the answer is no in every case.
RI Mom
From the article- " The effects on land can last for years, or even decades." Hmmm, let's see, decades compared to the 4.5 billion year history of the Earth". Yeah, pretty hard to make the case that this will "kill the Earth". This may come as a shock to you but the Earth has been through much, much, MUCH worse and it's still going strong.
Gee, Backcountry, stop making so much sense, willya?
The Cato Institute has blasted this Probublica report as biased, agenda oriented journalism, designed to advance one specific point of view. How surprising! Maybe some of you huggers ought to read the Cato piece.
God stated in the Bible we are stewards of the world. So nto you who don't care or agree with contanimination, God help you, for those that fight to defend nature, God Bless.
More liberal media propaganda.
If you don't like natural resources, walk on ride a bike. :-)
Besides, everyone knows that Obama won't hand out those drilling permits. How do I know, heard it on FoxNews.
yeah righty,
there are right ways to go about business and there are wrong ways. Dumping illegally is the wrong way, I certainly hope that the EPA will come down hard on those companies that are dumping.
Put them OUT OF BUSINESS if they illegally dump !!!
Those of you claiming that this article is "propaganda", please point out how you came to that conclusion?
Oil companies have been notorious for failing to willingly clean up after themselves, and thus the need for regulations to force them to do so. I have no problem with oil companies drilling for oil, since we will be needing it for the foreseeable future, so long as they do it in a responsible manner and comply with all Local/State/Federal regulations.
With the profits oil companies make, it is incumbent upon them to minimize any damage they may do to the environment, and bear the cost of clean ups and restoration of affected areas.
Many of us downstream from the Missouri river and also the Mississippi river should be worried since the Missouri flows from there and dumps into The Mississippi river many thousands of people if not millions depend on that water for drinking irrigation and yes they flood and could cause contamination to the worlds breadbasket.
And you'll never see another enforcement person for any spill. These companies have bought off the politicians, and they are the ones who provide the money for enforcement personnel. No money, no enforcement. No enforcement, more pollution. It's a no-brainer, just like those who pollute and run.
And these energy companies wonder why the general population has such distrust in any thing they say or do. Their basic dishonesty about spills, their coverups of spills and the quantities of each spill, puts another nail in the coffin they are building by, and for, themselves.......
There's always some bad apples in any industry that make's the others look bad. When the ones breaking regulations are bar them from drilling again.
But, what I get from this article more than anything is it's a promo for Obama.
the Republicans would look the other way and reduce any pollution regulations as they allow these companies to rape our land and get a way with it. It was that Republican moron who apologized to BP. Oil from Keystone will leave this country so if the Republicans push it through somehow, I hope we will hold them personally accountable for the damage it will do.
i just KNEW that somehow, one of you would find a way to insult the president for something he has nothing to do with! i swear, i God himself came down out of the sky to pat Obama on the back, you'd all become atheists! you're pathetic. so, let's just drill and spill and to holy heck with the environment and our childrens' future! big business doesn't give a rat's behind about anything but the bottom line and they have effectively bought Congress, so don't be shocked with every other child born in this country ends up with asthma and or some form of autism. nobody wants to admit that we are poisoning our future all in the name of the God Almighty dollar! there are ways to create energy that don't kill us, but they take time to develop and there no obscene profit to be made for our corporate overlords. you should stop blaming the president and start looking at Congress, the most shameful group of charlatans we have ever had in our time. they sold their collectives souls to Governor Norquist and the corporate overlords for thirty pieces of silver and our country is suffering for it now and will continue. they won't be satisfied until we are a third world country, every man woman and child working for pennies and living like peasants. makes me think of Bladerunner. i'm just glad i'm old enough not to have to be around for most of it. i just fear for my kids and grandkids.
Dont worry. God has no plans to pat O on the back. O is allowing even more babies to be killed for the sake of the killer doctors and Planned Parenthood to make some money. How nice. We make a profit on the blood of "unwanted" babies. Great. And we are "more" civilized than the ancient people who sacrificed babies to their stone gods?? Are we?? No. We are not.
RWING---Insane much?
rwing, Just maybe the way you think and vote is a good reason alot of bad politicans are in office screwing up this country.
But, what I get from this article more than anything is it's a promo for Obama.
Of course, everything has to turn against this President. Let's blame Obama now for all this mess . The GOP "warned "us about it Right?
You guys always have some snappy comeback that Glen Beck or Sarah Palin taught you. How about going back to school and really learn something about fossil fuels and the environment? Too much work. Sarah Palin and Glen Beck hardly finished High School, but they are your heroes.
@nwnative
Anyone who thinks the Keystone pipeline is some pending disaster is clueless. You want to talk pipelines check out the pipeline coverage map near the bottom of this page- http://www.energyinsights.net/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000042/004207.htm How often are there accidents? And you think one more pipeline is suddenly going to change something?
@ alessa. next time you blame something completely irrelevant as causing autism, look at yourself. Irrelevant comments relating oil production (thay YOU use daily, btw) won't help anyone. Don't blame congress, blame yourself for not taking the time to get some facts straight before sounding off.
rightwing; Go elsewhere with your drivel.
Backcountry; Oil tar sands are a different animal. What do you think about running sandpaper through pipes at high pressure. It won't take long to wear through.
I cant wait to see what they do to PA and Ohio .. where the rules have all been drawn up by the Energy Companys .. Ill bet there will be plenty of protection and money for clean up in those rules and regulations
@cd08
Yeah I'm sure they won't even consider the difference when constructing this pipeline because if it wears through it won't cost them anything to repair the pipe, clean up the mess and take a massive PR hit. Oh wait, I guess that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
This whole report is obviously bogus! FOX and the GOP keep telling me that Obama has blocked drilling and so this can't be happening. And anyway, even if it is, wait until Romney is President and he'll do away with the EPA and other regulatory agencies. And further, once justice is done and FOX takes over as the only approved national news source, we won't hear any more about anything like this. [Sort of gives "Ignorance is bliss" an entirely new meaning, doesn't it?]
Oil will still be there for years to come, but once an environment is lost, it will be lost for decades to come. Who will foot the bill to restore the environment and clean up the mess? I can tell you that it is not oil companies, but us tax payers.
BackCountry...Let me be the first to call you a liar to your postface. I've been to Alberta Canada. I've seen the tar sands...Have you? Liars of the right will white wash anything that puts moolah in their pockets. Little do you right wing liars want to admit that the Calgary Sun and National Post both posted articles in 2007 when Alberta wanted to run that Keystone pipeline through one of its neigborhing provinces, British Columbia. The reason BC didn't want it? They knew it would destroy thousands of acres of their most environmentally sensitive tourist areas. Why the hell should anyone in the US be forced to forfeit their property to CanOil so a pipeline headed for Blowhard Galveston can refine and export the dirtiest oil process there is? Go to Alberta and see the now white patches in the northern part of that province and ask the people there what they think about tar sand oil. Or don't humans count on your greedhead scale of top priorities. Tell you what. You operate the tar sands pipeline in your back yard, pump 20 million gallons of water an hour with 21 chemicals including the carcinogen benzene and then help yourself and your family to a nice glass of water loaded down with benzene. Talk is cheap and BS is a pig dressed in slimy Black Oil.
floyd-335513, what a stupid comment. You're so ignorant it's pathetic.
Because that's never happened before? Take a look at history . Are you really that naive?
@ewent
Please point out just exactly where I have lied about anything?
btw, did you look at the map? There's friggin pipelines EVERYWHERE. Not a single state in the union without a major one. But you just go ahead with your irrational fears and drivel, the vast majority of your posts are so full of sht they aren't worth the time it takes to read them.
Actually it will be pretty close to my backyard. Unlike you who lives about as far from it as you could be. Maybe the decision should be made by those whom it will affect with the people who have zero skin in the game staying the hell out of it.
Rwing millions of babies where killed under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II also. Ronnie has met his maker and George I is not to far away from it. So what is your point? Roe v Wade vote 7-2 in SCOTUS. Burger -GOP, Brennan DEM appointed by IKE, Stewart -GOP, White- DEM, Marshal -DEM, Blackmun - GOP, Powell - GOP appointed by Nixon, Rehnquist- GOP appointed by Nixon. Douglas - DEM. The GOP had the majority of the court in 1973 and yet Roe v Wade was ruled in favor of legal abortion. 7-2 with one DEMOCRAT voting in the minority. But it's Obama's fault right? After all he was 12 in 1973!!!
Shortsightedness never hurt anybody, right? It might hurt our kids or grandkids...but who gives a $hit about them? Drill baby drill! We'll be long gone by the time the state is uninhabitable and/or has no usable natural resources!
Regulations smegulations!
@Chuck1968
Clearly I'm not the one who's naive. Did you look at the map I posted? 2.5 million miles of oil and gas pipelines currently and how many disasters has there been? And we're supposed to believe another 1,200 miles is going to be the end of the world? Talk about naive.
Don't worry, my fellow Americans, It'll all be over soon. Just remember what the truely rich owe this country. Like the former CFO of Facebook, or the CEO of ExxonMobile who said that his is not an American company, and so it has no resposibility to do anything in America's interests. Funny how we continue to pay him for the privilege of taking advantage of the taxpayer's infrastructure while he screws us.
Once America looks like the wasteland that is Russia, they will move off to countries that were smart enough not to let them crap all over the land, spending the money they took from taxpayers, and sleeping perfectly well at night.
As for the rest of us, we'll end up like the wildlife; push into smaller and smaller habitable zones, fighting each other for the scraps of food that are left, even if they are full of poisons. But this is the system we voted for, so this is what we deserve. It's survival of the fittest, remember? We are to stupid to live.
This should be a surprise to no one. The one thing oil companies produce more of than oil is waste and pollution. Just look at Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, anywhere oil companies have been for a while. Trash, oil drums, rusting equipment, toxic land and polluted water are just collateral damage to be created and abandoned. Nothing gets in the way of profit.
This is greed at it's worse. Republicans want corporations to regulate themselves and you see what happens when there is some kind of regulation. Like I always say, be careful what you ask for and if the Republicans get into power then we as a country is doomed, think about it, water contamination, air contaminated, under educated population, no parks or open lands, no fishing, no hunting, more unemployment, more poverty, so on and on. Please America before you vote really check out your candidates agenda and don't just take their word when they tell you everything will be rosy. If we elect the corporate puppets then we will forced into a depression with no escape. Be careful America this is make our break time for our country, corporate run America or the American people running our country, we have one of two choices, one that will rape our country and the other will grow our country so make sure you choose growth. Don't allow the corporate puppets fill your mind with lies and false hopes.
So who is the one bad apple making the other energy companies look bad? BP, Exxon, shall I continue?
Looks like a lot of people are really starting to catch on to this destruction of our society by big industry. Afterall, they wont have to live in the toxic zone or drinkl the water..they will be able to buy up the pristene parts of the world wehile the rest of us womnder why we let them destriy our country..they are destroying and dividing it everyday more and more...Guess what? we can do something about it....ORGANIZE ORGANIZE AND ORGANIZE!! VOTE VOTE AND VOTE! Every single person who turns 18 should register the day they turn 18 and Knowledge knowledge knowledge! dont listen to the big bad wolf! If the people of this country dont wake up NOW then it will be too late...why do we always let the damage get done then act? This is our problem..I dont care who is in washington...TELL THEM WHAT TO DO! DEMAND RESPONSIBILITY FROM YOUR CONGRESS PERSON! Stop accepting what you know to be a damn lie!Nothing will change until we change it! Get a hold of your local activist groups TODAY and start saving your childrens future TODAY! Dont wait, let congress and big oil know that your DAMNED MAD!! Lets start producing solar, wind energy TODAY! 5 billion more years of sun and endless wind!! WTF are we waiting for? COME ON AMERICA!! WHATS IT GONNA TAKE TO GET YOU TO WAKE IUP AND TAKE ACTION? Whats stopping you! ACTION, ACTION, ACTION Speaks louder than words! I care about my kids and MY VOICE IS HEARD! we NEED YOUR VOICE AND VOTE TOO! United we stand, DIVIDED WE FALL FOR ANYTHING!! CALL your local environmental group today and make a difference!!! Everything is local first until they understand it becomes national..DO IT PEOPLE...DO IT...PROTECT YOUR FUTURE AND COUNTRY...IM MAD AS HELL...TIME FOR ACTION!!! NO MORE TALK..Contact your local environmenatists!!!! TODAY...
Isint it great that maybe four people in congress for your state is selling out generations of your children to make someone else rich? Its your land and our country! we went thru this poisioniong of our land in the 1970's and cost billions upon billions to taxpayers to clean up and regulate..now its round two? FIRE THE REGULATORS WHO DONT SEND A STRONG MESSAGE AND FINE THOSE WHO POLLUTE ON HUGE SCALES..MAKE THEM DRINK YOUR WATER!! Your congress persons dont have the right to ruin your lives for money they get after they $uck your life over for years...Wake uP AMERICA!! Your gettin screwed and sattled with debt while those dirty politicians sell you out..its a damn shame this is what we become...anything to make the rich richer and let them shut you up and take it in the buns with a smile..These conservative creeps dont know or care,,,,they will all sell your rights out and will you sit there and let them? FIGHT BACK WITH VENGENCE!!! LET THEM KNOW YOU CAN STAND IN THE RING AND PROTECT YOUR TREASURE!! DONT LET THEM SMACK YOU DOWN AND TAKE WHATS YOURS!! CONTACT YOUR LOCAL ACTIVISTR, ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS AND BECOME A CITIZEN AGAIN..TODAY!! OR JUST KEEP TAKIN IT WHERE THE SUN DOESNT SHINE!! Im sick of this, we all know what happening...,we are losing our democracy pure and simple...OIL is not going to last forever!! we need renewables NOW!! iNVEST IN YOUR KIDS FUTURE!! Wind, SOLAR arte everlasting and will create jobs for the 21st century...GET INVOLVED AND STOP LISTENING TO THE RIGHT WING NUT JOBS!! They dont have a problem selling your future out let alone their own kids futures obviously..Think about your children and grand children...GOOGLE the damage that the OIL SANDS ARE CAUSING RIGHT NOW!!
From what I've seen on the Boob Tube; most if not all of these Drill Crews are Wildcat crews run by Third Party Shell Companies. Chesapeake Energy (from Oklahoma) got caught using these Shell (not the gas company) companies, nothing was done to the owners.
There certainly must be a formula for have much waste per barrel of oil/gas is produced - if that much waste isn't making it to the hazardous waste facilities, then you know how much is being illegally dumped.
@winker, your right. Also go back in time, It took several years just to get them to wake up to the fact that we were doing so much damage to the Atmosphere. As I recall that was a long uphill battel.
Greed, greed and more greed. For a profit they will destroy your land and drinking water, what's not to like? That was sarcasm BTW. They're doing the same thing here in Texas on a grand scale, a 'boom' for awhile and then years of ecological disaster. What fools these mortals be. Keystone Pipeline, the magic bullet of the Republicans, is another boondoggle and potential environmental catastrophe.
must be the weekend...all the save the whale drones are posting drivel....you want to turn on a lightbulb or drive a car or sit and write drivel on your laptop you need affordable energy, and you ain't going to get it with a windmill or solar collector...
You are right coyotehunter, so maybe we should nationalize our resources and tell Multi-National Corporations where to shove it. It worked for Venezuela, I don't see them drowning in debt and starvation, why? Maybe because he stole the bankers money and kicked them out of their country?
We need to find the fine line between Corporate profit and slavery. Right now, we are teetering on the the second. Yes, we may not be shacked with real chains, but instead we are being shackled with economic chains.
Actually Coyotehunter, you CAN get enough power to run an average household from solar panels and 1-2 residential-sized wind turbines. 4 big wind turbines can produce enough power for a town of about 4,000. You're also forgetting hydroelectric dams which provide power for large cities.
As far as driving, yes we have to have oil for that but hydrogen is a very good source of fuel as is propane. In fact many city buses run on these. Recycled vegetable oils can also be used for fueling vehicles. If more people in urban/suburban areas used rapid transit systems then there would be less need for gasoline and diesel fuels. Personally I prefer riding the bus as I don't have to worry about driving or where to park my car, wear and tear on, or damage to my vehicle.
We only have this one planet to live on and if you're thinking that the human race will save itself by rocketing off into space to settle on some pristine planet elsewhere in the galaxy, you're just kidding yourself. And since no one knows when Jesus is coming back, I wouldn't put all of my eggs in that basket, either. This is NOT our world but God's and we will have to answer to Him for what we've done here. Frankly, were it my world I'd have fired the gardeners long ago for the way it's been trashed.
@Allison Shaw
Hydrogen is "made" with electricity which primarily comes from coal which is environmentally worse than oil. And propane is a byproduct of NG and OIL REFINERY.
Wasn't the Hindenburg full of Hydrogen when it, well you know? Flammable gaseous tanks don't sit well with me. I look at every new "Alternative" vehicle as another Hindenburg just waiting to happen.
@trust2112
The Hindenburg was full of hydrogen gas, hydrogen fuel for cars is kept under pressure making it a liquid and is no more or less dangerous than gasoline. http://www.livestrong.com/article/128201-dangers-hydrogen-fuel-cells/
I was just curious, I would hate to drive a car that would remind me of the old Pinto's.
Right on time, as predicted.
Now, the same people who were complaining about President Obama asking for an environmental plan and not wanting the project to go through "until" that plan we tested and confirmed - Drill, Baby, Drill...
The State of North Dakota - had all the power they needed to force the oil companies to ddevelop those resources the right way.... but NO, just drill. Ten years from now, When the prairies start to look like the wasted land in Appalachia - North Dakota will be looking for Federal help to clean up the mess the fought for and clamored to develop.
Tell them to go suck eggs! You got what you wanted and you got what - you were warned about.
We don't need drinking water! We need more oil to export.
In the end, oil will not be the most sought after resource, water will be. Aquifers are already showing the stress in many areas, globally. Severely contaminated supplies are increasing, like the profits of those who have no concern for humanity.
It may not happen soon, but it will happen. CLEAN water will be more valuable than oil. I'm in Fl., the aquifers have been drained so hard that salt water is encroaching on them.
I live in Florida, too. Saltwater intrusion has been an issue for a while due to over development. With the current crop of idiots in Tallahassee, I don't see any relief.
Just bought a retirement home in the NE corner of Ms. Surrounded by clean lakes and rivers on the border of Tn. I'll see how long that lasts.
I hope you can keep your "Eden" for a very long time!
Oil will still be there for years to come, but once an environment is lost, it will be lost for decades to come. Who will foot the bill to restore the environment and clean up the mess? I can tell you that it is not oil companies, but us tax payers.
You're absolutely right, there will be costs to the environment, unfortnately. But no one can drink oil. There was a solid energy plan put forward during the Carter Administration. It was shot down by . . . those in bed with the oil companies! Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase, "Give me a lube job!"
Why do you think Republicans in 2011 refused to grant any funding to alternative energy and then 1 year later handed Big Oil $12 billion of your tax dollars? And isn't that a cute Republican coincidence how over 200 more rigs have been built just since they got the annual $12 billion? Call your state senators and congresspeople. Demand an end to Big Oil tax subsidies. Big Oil is making a fool of taxpayers taking tax subsidies when they recorded 3 historic profits in the 1st fiscal quarter every year since 2009. Enough with the rest of the states supporting the only industry TX has.
Shared Nest: this is different than a regular lube job due to the sands.
But then, I don't think the taxpayers in this country need to worry about the sand in the lube - the oil companies and the politicians supporting them aren't going to use it anyway....
Hey Alex, I was making a sexy pun: politicians in bed with the oil companies = lube job
ewent, yeah, the "big boys" are all in bed together. Oops, that sounds like a homosexual statement. They're repressed on energy issues as well as others.
the fact is, we must get corporations out of our politics. If we fail to do that, they will destroy the country in one fashion or another !!!
CorporateShill - agreed! We are becoming serfs and the right wing sheep are too brainwashed to see it.
All fairy tales. Drilling on public land is down under Obama. Drilling and production is up only on private land.
Why, is the oil on public lands a better quality that the oil on private lands?
If the end game is going to be a rush for oil, I would rather we were sitting on a strategic oil reserve on PUBLIC lands.
Public land drilling rights are 'Bid' on by the big companies. Get it cheap, make a mess, walk away.
Private land rights go much higher, and they are made to clean up the mess in court rulings.
nibor---Well I believe you. No cites, nothing to refute what the article, just you saying it's a fairy tale. You have to be right! LOL.
Let's say you were wrong and that more drilling was happening on public land...would you then complain that Obama has allowed drilling on public land? I'd venture a guess you would.
Regardless of any claim you make (which I'm fairly certain would be opposed to Obama because I'm fairly sure you'd never give him credit for anything and find a way to villify him no matter what he did), the truth is that rotary rigs are now more prevelant than ever under his administration. Here's the link to the chart:
www.wtrg.com/rotaryrigs
Drilling for oil only to sell to the highest bidder.... These oil baron turds are selling oil drilled in America to other countries.....
What part of global markets do liberal idiots not understand? We still import oil, if we withheld ours from the market it would only increase prices. If we could buy our own for less than buying foreign, we'd do it.
Do try to take an economics course.
Phil, you are the one who needs to take an economics lesson. Companies own the oil that they extract, not "America" and they sell it to the highest bidder. Worldwide supply and demand sets the price. Oil "independence" is a conservative talking point joke, unless the conservatives wish to nationalize the oil industry.
Phil, you are just spouting standard right-wing nonsense.
We're a net exporter of gasoline now, yet prices remain abysmally high. The break-even point for a barrel of crude is around $30.00.
If we flooded the market with our oil, the OPEC nations would just throttle their production to stabilize the prices.
You should stay off right-wing talk sites, you're obviously being fed lies and are willing to wash them down with oil-flavored Kool-Aid.
Valhalla Phil
Thanks. You just validated WHY we can stop subsidizing oil corporations with a tax subsidy of 4 billion dollars a YEAR. If they can make more $$ by selling it abroad then there is no reason for them to get a tax cut period.
There is also no reason for us to OPEN our national lands to MORE drilling.
There is also NO reason for us to have the Keystone Pipeline. It will create a mere 4,000 jobs and will DO Absolutely NOTHING to lower the price of oil in this country period.
Economics 102 - the FULL story the righities DONT want you to know.
Gee....who knew that selling goods and services to the highest bidder is wrong. I guess it is also wrong to people to look for the highest wage. They should just sit there and take whatever the employer offers and if someone offers more....tough.
It's about time.....You are wrong about the keystone pipeline. You have been fed a pile of bs and propaganda and you believe it. It will most likely lower the price of gas and the added savings to the US is expected to create nearly 500,000 jobs. That doesn't include all the tax revenues that the states will get and all the teachers and firefighters they will be able to hire because of it.
Economics 201.....Quit refering to articles like this that distort the truth and purposely leave out facts to deceive you.
Shamwah.....We are no longer a net exporter of gasoline. That lasted for about 3 month.
PutAmericaFirst:
Umm.. no I'm not
"Most Likely"? Hmmm.. You honestly think that the oil corporations are going to LOWER the price of gas because of the supply? That's the propoganda THEY want you to believe. The top 5 OIL corporations made over 1 TRILLION dollars from 2001 to 2010. They are not going to increase production that much. Controlling the supply along with the "WalStreet Speculation, Media Hype and World Demand, the prices are ONLY going to go up".
American OIL corporations could care less about America. All they care about is "Profits" from their customers.
It will not create 500,000 sustainable jobs. It will at max create 4,000 sustainable jobs once it's completed. State Revenues being used to get more teachers and fire fighters? You have got to be joking. The pipeline would run from North Dakota to Texas. EVERY single state is a GOP stronghold.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/02/08/421061/big-oil-higher-prices-record-profits-less-oil/
Please go back and take a basic course in economics, history, and read "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine.
PutAmericaFirst: the executives of Transamerica testified in front of the Canadian Parliament that, because they will no longer be stockpiling oil in the Midwest, the price of oil in the Midwest will be going up. This is because the oil will be going directly to the Gulf for refining, and then exported from the US. This is public record. The jobs created will largely be temporary for the construction. And the initial job statement was for 200,000 not 500,000. I doubt it will even be 200,000. So one has to question where you get your information from.
So, we just pollute the land and water for oil, huh? You is smurt fer a ditto head.
Which of you in the comments have started a business with the intentions of "not" making money?
Uhmmmm....Yes...I do think that they will lower the price because of supply. They always have in the past and so I expect that to happen in the future. The oil companies operate and pretty small margins. Yes they would also increase productions. They like making money. The more they produce the better the stockholders. It is the cartels like opec that try to limit productions, not the big 5 in the US. They are like Fresca and 7-up saying they are going to control the soda market. I expect them to lower prices because they care about their profits.
It is the savings that is expected to create the jobs. Instead of money going overseas, that money stays in the US and that creates more jobs. On top of that, why are teachers in redstates to be hated? Those states will generate billions in tax revenues to be used. Let each state develope their own resources so they can fund education better.
I have read common sense a couple of times and have a pretty good grasp on economics since that was my minor in college.
The purpose of the pipeline is for Canada to be able to export their oil OUT of the US (Midwest) where there is currently a 'glut'. This will RAISE the price of petroleum products in the middle of the US, not lower the price.
The Canadians have no intention of selling diesel here for US$3.00 when they can sell it for US$5.00 somewhere else.
This is not 'putting America first'.
That keystone pipeline would terminate in some Louisiana port, loaded right on a barge, and sold overseas. This country would see no benefit other than a handful of jobs.
PutAmericaFirst
The only true benefit of the keystone pipeline is the short term jobs it would create. To an American who wants a job, I think that's a good thing. The rest of your comment I am ignoring.. except:
First, I don't see this generating billions in tax revenues. If they move oil from Canada to Louisiana (sorry I didn't have a map in front of me), the states and perhaps local governments may see some taxes, but billions... we have to first subtract the tax subsidies the localities will give the company to even build the pipleline in the area.
I never commented about hating teachers. Quite honestly, I am in favor of higher teacher salaries provided the students are benefiting as well. I am a democrat, but I do not believe throwing $$$ at any profession without producing tangible results. The GOP is looking to 'cut' spending in all social programs as well. Teachers salaries fall into that category.
I appreciate your posts, but I simply cannot agree w/them.
Wow you guys don"t understand more than surface economics.
1. You are correct. Right now there is a glut in Cushing, OK and that has created a pocket of depressed prices. Shipping on tanker trucks only works so far so the price is depressed. The problem is that if this route isn't chosen, then they will pursue a pipeline elsewhere, probably across the Rockies to Vancouver. That is much more harmful for the environment. It will cost a lot more. The US will not benefit. THE PRICE STILL GOES UP IN THE MIDWEST.
2. You are correct. They are putting it through so that they can sell to the world market. They are going to get to the world market one way or another. Don't forget that we are part of the world market. They will not sell to the highest bidder. Instead they will sell to the bidder who gives them the most profit. If the US is buying oil/gasoline from another country, some of the costs we pay are shipping costs. If we people in North Carolina can purchase the oil Louisiana or Houston instead of Brazil they could save on shipping costs and therefore it will likely lower the cost of gas throughout the atlantic states. It will also help to keep costs low in the midwest because the pipleline isn't going to Vancouver.
3. This savings in the form of lower prices allows consumers to spend their money on other goods and services. This money will help create jobs. The savings varies based on the price of oil. The higher the price of oil, the greater the savings and the more our economy benefits. It is expected that it would create 250,000 additional jobs as $67 a barrel and over 500,000 jobs at $140 a barrel.
4. Even if it is only a handful of jobs (4,000) isn't that still a good thing?
Itsabouttime....I know you don't hate teachers, but that is the respone I typically get on here any time I propose doing anything conservative. I become a racist or Nazi or something like that.
MSNBC ran an article about 3 months ago showing that Nebraska would benefit about $4 billion in additional tax revenues over the first 10 years from the pipeline.
This is the exact problem with all of this. Go Go Go and no one is stopping to think about the consequences. Oh well its not like it is downtown NYC or anything, just far off North Dakota so once we pump it dry we will leave faster than we came. Its great that this is providing jobs and helping their state economy but at what cost and what will this leave for future generations?
I understand the need to look at all energy resources right now but we have got to be responsible in doing so. We only have one planet and I guarantee majority of those who are profiting the most off this live no where near this area and will be long gone when the failures to enforce the environmental rules catches up with us. Something we keep on repeating. Its amazing what greed can do and even sadder to see politicians not doing their jobs but what do you expect with the lobbyist and payoffs we have going on.
There is a balance and part of that balance needs to include equal investment in alternative energy sources. Natural gas is much cleaner than coal and oil but big deal if you foul all the land and drinking water around the drill sites, not to mention the additional water that gets wasted in the process (I hear there are some new methods that if adopted could go without or use much less water and overall if all the companies would follow the rules and use a few other pieces of technology and techniques pollution from the fracking would be greatly reduced). Love how this was/is still going on in places like Texas that have severe water shortages. Stupid as stupid does though.
I don't pick sides in this because we need it all right now but again we have to find a balance (personally I'd say for electrical production purposes Gen IV nuclear reactors and solar are the way to go). Politically I don't pick sides either because it is evident both are in on this and like I always post dem and repub are one in the same behind closed doors. Keeping us divded and keeping thereselves in power is the name of the game.
Putamericafirst - ironic name really, but your joking right? 500,000 jobs. Not a snowball's chance in hell. You realize how many workers that would be? This is a pipeline, and while no walk in the park, its not an overly complicated construction project and alot is done with heavy equipment on top of a few hundred feet, at least, a day being installed. I don't know of any project now or ever that had that many workers, the Pyrimads perhaps? Not to mention these are temp jobs, which there might be 10,000 or so and last 2 or 3 years. At the end of the day I'd guess even the 4,000 number for permanent jobs is a high number. Same goes for your "pipe dream" (like that) about oil and gas prices, lower, ha, not going to happen. Oh and don't forget where this oil comes from, oil "tar" sands. This is nasty stuff and is one of if not the most polluting large scale way to get oil. By all means a last resort for getting oil. The joke that is ethanol with its low energy in to energy out returns is better than this.
I understand we have great needs right now but it is time that we stop continuing to let ourselves get caught up in the moment and we have got to be thinking long term. We have also got to stop letting those on Wall St. and their puppets in DC manuipulate us so that a few can further line their pockets and stay in power. We have options to really get us to energy independence and wean off of fossil fuels and we need to start using those options now, time is running out.
Sure, I am in biz for making a living. but hat doesnt entitle me to just trash the earth. These corporations and the PEOPLE working for them have a personal responsibility to clean up after themselves.
what part of personal responsibility do you not get?
oh yeah , that's just a mantra to Republicans. hell, none of you have any intentions of ever taking responsibility for the economy youve crashed multiple times following the same stupid fiscal policy (definition of insanity anyone?)
or the messes deregulation makes or the getting involved inn peoples personal lives, trying to force your religious beliefs onto others
In fact the dolts stand by none of their principles.
Itsabouttime......I don't think that we need to invest in alternative forms yet. We have another couple of decades of cheaper fossil fuels and then after that time things will get more expensive. Until then, alternative forms of energy will become better and better and consumers will make the transition when the time is right. This is from an MSNBC article a little while ago.
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/29/10541404-keystone-pipeline-claims-just-dont-add-up?lite
Here is the project tax revenues. I was wrong. It was $5.2 billion for all states.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/02/15/425769/keystone-xl-five-stories-the-media-have-missed/?mobile=nc
I live right in the middle of this oilboom. All I see is rapeing of the countryside by people who care nothing about the people who live here. The keystone pipeline won't do anything for the US. They will mix the crappy tarsands oil with the bakken crude, pipeline it down south, refine it and sell it to the highest overseas bidder. Then it will cost US in the midwest more because they say transportation costs to get it back here are high. The state is pulling the wool over everybodies eyes to make us think they are doing a great job. I know the Monsons and know what BS they went through to get a settlement and a clean up. It's all about the money and how much they can get away with. Not to mention the dregs of society that come here. My family has mineral rights on 4000 acres of land. Is it worth it to lease it out and ruin what has been in the family for over 100 yrs, Personally I don't think so. We have a well on our property 600 yards from my house that was drilled 30 yrs ago. I know it's leaking because I had oil and brine bubbling up in my driveway, had it tested and there is oil in it. The well was shut down after I reported it and now waiting for them to start the well again and see if the bubbling starts again. I tested my water wells and so far so good, at least I have a record of my tests so they can't tell me it was always like that.
Put America First....no I don't think you have a grasp of economics.
To use your Fresca / 7UP analogy...you need to compare apples to apples. For your analogy to be accurate Fresca and 7UP have to be the only beverages available for consumption (just as right now if you want to drive - you need to buy oil...you can't fill up your tank with Coke or Pepsi). Now both Fresca and 7UP selling a commodity - they can charge what ever they want to charge for their product. Prices do NOT go down - they go UP because they can. The ceiling becomes where you as a consumer decide you are not going to drink anything or drink less - when this happens prices go down to entice you to drink more.
Hey Phil, what part of global markets do the idiots from the right not understand when they blame the president for the high cost of gas? See it works both ways.
Maitre......Exactly!!!! Now consider the fact that our oil companies are small players world wide. Exxon is 17th, BP 18th, Cheveron is 22nd I think. These are small time players in the world market. They are the Fresca and 7-up, while Saudi Co. is Coke and pepsi.
@PutAmericaFirst
Really? I guess the whole world is just full of stupid people who invest in alternatives energy, right?
Like Germany with a strong economic due to labor representatives at the top of each companies, they have windmill along the road everywhere.
The problem with your thinking is to stop worrying about the future. However, once something change and you have no backup plan, what's next? YOU ARE SCREWED, that's what will happen.
PutAmericaFirst - you got our names mixed up but regardless I disagree. Now is the time to invest in alternative energies and plenty of companies and countries are doing it. Just like Cuong said (though I prefer Solar over wind farms -which I think are ugly, need to be limited, and don't work as good anyways- and Germany is still #1 there too, and our resources for solar are way better).
You want to talk about jobs, good ones at that, here you go. We have been playing kick the can and wait a little longer for way too long now. Many so others can continue to profit. This is as good a time as any and I don't want us to wait until the clock is in the eleventh hour (one could argue we are there) before we try not to mention allow other countries like China to get an even bigger lead in the manufacturing part of this market. Also it won't get any better if we don't invest. That's how is works, you have to have the investments now. Saying lets wait til it's better to invest doesn't really make any sense. Someone has to invest to make it better and it needs to be our country and its needs to be now, not tomorrow or years down the road. Alternative sources will be the real way to start gaining energy independence and it actually put some control back into the hands of those who on the system.
How many more places have to experience what worn out described before we decide it is the right time? Like I said fossil fuels aren't going away overnight but we can start now looking at the alternatives and we never should be having things happen that lead to the experience worn out has shared. Our planet is getting worn out and trust me, it does not need us to survive, we need it, there is no two way street here.
PAF, it is going to take those few decades, if not more, to develop those technologies enough to even begin to replace oil as a power source. It took 30 years to make natural gas a feasible energy source. That was all done on Government funded research. If we do not start taking it seriously now, in the future we are going to be f***ed when we have no energy source besides nuclear that can put out as much energy as oil did.
The reason we will be screwed is because no one will let the Gov build newer/more efficient/safer reactors. By the time oil ends most of our reactors will have to be decommissioned because they will be way over their due dates; many actually already are. As the saying goes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If we keep putting it off until "tomorrow", and tomorrow never comes by the way, soon tomorrow is going to be too late and we will be entirely beholden to green power from other countries and the cost is going to make what we spend on oil look like a dry fart.
The problem with selling US oil abroad when it's needed here is that it's a limited strategic national resource. If you're not willing to look after your own first then you're a sellout. I'd personally go so far as to call you a traitor. I don't suppose you'll be patting these super-capitalists on the back when we have no oil left for ourselves will you?!
the right wing used to be against most eminent domain issues (the taking of land from people for the overall good of the citizens of the USA) not any more, if it means business take the land !!!
thing is, this pipeline will do US no good and no land should be taken from any citizen to build it !!!
Nibor, that's false.
No, it is 100% true. Try watching the financial channels instead of the propaganda outlets.
Lol...you mean those fast money shows where the targeted audiance are people whom only care about making as much money as possible regardless of whom or what is destroyed in the process??
Those shows????
LMAO.... awesome comment American Socialist. Cheers from Texas
And, Cheers from Florida!!!
And, cheers from Penna.
you mean Fox, right ??
Hard to imagine this....NOT! It's the Pubbie way!
N Dakota, 3% unemployment. Obama 15% real unemployment. Go ahead, starve to death.
Temporary jobs today with poluted creeks, groundwater and pasture land for years, if not decades. And you seem to want that for the whole country?
Valhalla Phil
LOL sure, if we had an OIL BOON in the other 49 states, then we would have the same low unemployement.
Righities... always trying to point the finger of blame at obama with NO real factual information. Keep whining and complaining.
You are partly correct. The right can't blame Obama for things he has done, because he hasn't done anything.
@Phil
Let's me see, you want a job that last for couple years and then screw future generations for years to come. Oh wait, that already happened, we are experiencing it now from 30 years of bad policies and you want to make it worse later? I guess you don't plan to live in the future and don't plan to have children, right?
Phil - what about trickle down economic theory??? Wall St. is making money hand over fist but we see no real change. Since you want to play the pick a side blame game, who spouts that crap again?
Read these words: BOTH sides have put us in the dumpster and it is up to us, the everyday Americans, to get out. Stop drinking the kool aid and you will see this. Feeding into the division and finger pointing only ensures those in power stay there, those without stay there, and that overall nothing changes unless it benefits those in power.
Bobby Jones Bia
you are partly correct. The GNOP's won't allow anything to be done !!!
btw; you bring disgrace, to the name of the great man, Bobby Jones.
I am not naive. I know you cant make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. If they drill they will spill, it is a matter of time. I can deal with that. But with the regulations in place and this still happening frequently with abuses too, makes me wonder how people can honestly say less regulation is what we need. Boggles my mind. The reason regulations are in place is because for too long they regulated themselves, and their good work is still being cleaned up to this day complete with super fund dollars and hazmat suits on our dime. We need smart regulations with smarter enforcement, maybe not more but certainly not less.
There are helpful regulations and harmful ones. The EPA has been increasingly issuing harmful ones.
This is you in a nutshell...
Money > Environment
You stay classy now ;)
Unenforced regulations are meaningless.
I can explain it, the righties werent happy with the deep recession all their deregulations caused in 2008, they want a full blown depression, where even they will be in food lines and living on the street.
Yes, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, but you can also create jobs from cleaning the mess you started with.
The problem is these oil companies don't want to spend more money to clean up after themselves, they don't want to create more jobs, but want more bonuses at the top. I mean why spread out money when a few top executives can get most of them, it's great for them and great for their bonuses.
Phil - right and wrong. EPA has good and bad rules but most aren't bad. I will agree they can use more common sense as well but if the companies were responsible and did the right thing it wouldn't be an issue. But like Cuong said, easy way to get more money for the top select few. Accidents will happen, but there is no reason they should be happening at the rate they are.
I'm waiting for MSNBC to run a story on all the birds and bats that get killed by wind turbines.
But hell would have to freeze over first.
Yep - and you can have a handle with the word 'Slut' in it if you are a liberal.
Moderator????
How come this is okay?
"Limbaugh: Bristol Palin is a Slut"
I don't think I can use "Obama is Evil"
Oh yeah - we are going to drill. See folks - you there are too many who are not even in the 99%. They are the working poor and we are SICK of not being able to mine the gazillion of dollars of natural resources we have.
We want to live too.
So it's going to happen and you know why? Because we are millions and you are the few and most of us ascribe to the 2nd amendment.
Understand?
@ economykiller... is it better to make a pittance while everything around you and yourself is being poisoned by a Corporation that hoards its profits among only a select few or is better to not be poisoned?
What an idiotic comment. You try to justify poisoning the drinking water, destroying farm land all to sell off our natural resources to the highest world market bidder for the benefit of a few very wealthy men, by comparing it to a few dead bats. Interesting sense of proportion.
"When they show you who they are...believe them"
Of course since we've been drilling for a century we have NO farmland left and NO clean water. What an idiotic propaganda rant.
So Phil - you won't be concerned until such time as there is no longer arable land and drinkable water left? Or only when there isn't enough just for you and yours?
Viktor. I will be concerned once it is shown to be a more than a few acres here and there. From the looks of these posts it looks like the author did his job and he was able to deceive a lot of people into thinking that there is a problem when there is none.
PAF: And which media are you willing to believe, regarding the extent of the situation? And is there any correlation between what corporations do overseas (where there are even less rules and/or enforcement), and what is happening to oversight in this country? It's easy to see the pattern and connect the dots if you're really looking....
PutAmerica,
This isn't a problem?:
Joanna Thamke, a groundwater specialist with the U.S. Geological Survey in Montana, started mapping contamination from drilling 20 years ago. She estimated it had spread through about 12 square miles of the aquifer, which is the only source of drinking water in the area. Over the years, brine had leaked through old well bores, buried waste pits and aging tanks and pipes.
Or this?
[Kris Roberts of the Health Department] said truckers often dump their wastewater rather than wait in line at injection wells. The Department of Mineral Resources asks companies how much brine their wells produce and how much they dispose of as waste, but its inspectors don't audit those numbers. Short of catching someone in the act, there's no way to stop illegal dumping.
The state also has no real estimate for how much fluid spills out accidentally from tanks, pipes, trucks and other equipment. Companies are supposed to report spill volumes, but officials acknowledge the numbers are often inexact or flat-out wrong. In 40 cases last year, the company responsible didn't know how much had spilled so it simply listed the volume of fluid as zero.
Really Phil? We've been using Hydraulic fracturing for a century? ...nice try ...next?
Let's not forget about all the exposed erionite! Thanks to all that drilling erionite is being exposed, used as gravel for roadways and getting into the ground water.
Why is that notable? Only a known carcinogen that makes asbestos look to be a snortable upper.
Drill baby drill... we have populations to thin out!
So you admit the EPA is a complete failure? At last we are making progress on your education.
LOL and just a few comments ago:
Valhalla Phil
There are helpful regulations and harmful ones. The EPA has been increasingly issuing harmful ones.
Gotta love the righty flip flopping. Which is it Phil?
S
He dosent know...
Phil is a reich wing nut job, ignore him.
hey economykiller, BIG DIFFERENCE between killing birds and polluting millions of gallons of water. But your obviously a right-winger and pray to god big business that can do no wrong.
Wake up buddy, corporate America will screw you over 10 times bigger and faster that our government ever will.
That's a pathetic lie. Corporations have given me substantial wealth enabling me to retire at 55, government only wants to steal it all.
Corporations don't want to tell me what I can eat, drink, drive, etc. They don't seize my property. Government does all that and more.
Phil: There you go again; it's all just about you. Forget that what corporations do in someone else's backyard may be harmful to *their* life / liberty / pursuit of happiness, as long as *you're* still all right.
Love thy neighbor, and be thy brother's keeper....
Valhalla Phil
Very Republican... "Whats mine is mine and what's yours is mine".
F*ck you and you're weath Phil...
Me me me...money money money
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcCXnXDiKoQ
Great clip...lots of reading between the lines to be had there, good message for the youngsters too.
Valhalla Phil
ummmm Phil, if we approve the Keystone pipeline thing, you know, A foreign company named Transcanada WILL be seizing someone's land............
All this coming to the State of North Carolina in the very near future. The Legislature says they have all the controls in place so this won't happen here. Bullpucky!
The electrical power generators should get into the fray and back massive expansion of electrical vehicles. Who said they should only be putting their electrons into our homes and businesses for TVs, computers, etc. and the very few electric vehicles out there now - we can use those to replace the gas station down the street and the oil wells polluting the world. Those gas stations and other storage facilities for hydrocarbons are also potential environmental mess cleanups and emergencies in the future too. The electricity gets to our homes/buildings everywhere now, and no need to stop into a station and fill up your car if we go more electric!! Plus if you have some solar of your own on the roof, you can fill up your car without your local power company charge too!
And where does most of the electricity come from-coal. Drink it or breath it or both. As long as we are using fossil fuels there is no easy solution to our pollution, if there is at all. We have the technology to change our path. What we do not have is the courage to let this current economy (US and World) collapse and build one based on something better. Part of the courage would involve some pretty drastic measures-we have to topple some rich people. Those are some cold hard facts. None of it will come to volition-that is human nature-until we hit rock bottom.
I have 10KW solar on my roof, how much do you have? Do you have a Leaf on order?
EV's and solar panels are the future, but the government isn't going to give them to you. They've done their part, 30% off solar panels, $7,500 off electric cars. The rest is up to the individual.
All talk and no action doesn't cut it. If you indeed have done your part, excellent. If not, stop being a hypocrite.
BTW, it's utilities that are trying to kill solar, not oil companies. I don't pay them 10% of what I used to, that hits them where it hurts.
You will NEVER topple rich people, stop living in fantasy land. We do need to kill socialist crony capitalism and get back to free market capitalism, the system that made us the greatest country on earth. China now brags they are more capitalist than we are and they are kicking our behinds.
valhalla
I live in a region where solar does not work (not enough sunlight)...but we are hydroelectric, no polllutoin. Also if you had read my comment with some reason and rationality you would have noticed I also believe that toppleing rich folks will not happen. Greed, as well as emtional out bursts, are far mor powerfull than reason. Yes China have become more capitalistic than the US, as well as the #1 polluters of the world.
Hydroelectric has its own problems. A different form of pollution. The bottom line is that our country and the environment would benefit if we fully developed our own natural resources. The energy and resources are going to be used and developed throughout the world. We can't change that.......but we can help determine who benefits from the development.
PAF; The environment would benefit if we fully developed our own natural resources???? Sounds to me like the North Dakota environment is going to hell from resource development.
Valhalla Phil says that the government can't take property? Does he want to ask some of the property owners in Nebraska about that Keystone eminent domain takeover? Sure...wussy bois of the right all love to spout BS to jack those Zeppelin egos until you hand them facts.
Fracking is dangerous. Ask anyone living in Guy Arkansas or Ohio where it's polluting water streams. It takes 21 chemicals and millions of gallons of water in the process. I don't feel an ounce of pity for ND and its hotcha government. If they are too stupid to figure out they were snookered by Big Oil and El Wacko Frackos, they deserve the cost of the pollution cleanup. I live in a state that for over 6 decades allowed companies to dump without reservation. Now? NJ has 5 of the top 10 SuperFund States on the Superfund List. And guess what? The polluters did that fine old good ole boi stall BS routine and now taxpayers are stuck with the costs of cleanup. Pay attention ND...You'll be next. There's a price to pay for everything in this life.
Only okee dokes don't know if it sounds too good to be true, it's usually BS dressed in silks and satin.
Phil,
What manufaturer made your PV panels? Do you remenber the type?
what Phil said is most likely a lie. The republicon dudes hate any green tech and in particular despise electric cars.
not really sure why !!
Short term gain from oil and gas will never outway the damage and future downturn of local economies that come with it. It is like the gold rush where towns thrive for only a short time and when the oil rigs are in place or the gas wells then the jobs go away and the economies of the towns goes away and they are left to clean up spills and deal with poisoned water and many other hazards.
As with all booms.. there follows a bust..
The frenzy in North Dakota has everything to do with greed.. and nothing to do with.."The Good of the Country" or the "Good of North Dakota" .
When this bit of lucrative opportunity finally gets mired down with government intervention.. the players will simply pack up and .. leave.
Just as they have in Colo. Utah. and Wyo.
People who needed $$$ are making 6 figures on the rigs. The ancillary benefits are literally impossible to determine. Exodus - take some econ classes. The wealth being pulled out of this boom is paying off houses that would have gone to foreclose - paying for college educations, paying down debt at banks.
People on food stamps and welfare working and earning bank. Greedy oil Barron's. We use the most oil in the world. Get over it.
Get over what?
I have worked these booms for the last 12 years. I have personnally witnessed these booms come and go and I am currently involved in a good part of the boom in North Dakota..
Economics class? I would suggest derogatory comments be kept to yourself.. they only serve to discredit the little bit of credibility you have.
The "wealth" the true wealth.. is being exported out of North Dakota as fast as the oil companies can bank it.
I would suggest that those of a skeptical nature look and see where these companies are headquartered and do some research on just how much of their percentages are reinvested into "local" economies.
exodus...So long as ND and ONLY ND pays for the pollution cleanup. We didn't make the decision to allow that mess, why should we have to contribute tax dollars to the cleanup when they knew from the get go it was causing massive hazardous waste? Not even the geniuses in ND can deny that one.
just another bit of info.
North Dakotans refer to the EPA as The Employment Prevention Agency..
and when asked about the brutal winters..
They reply..
Keeps the Riff Raff in Texas
can't wait to see how much people will pay for Idaho water !!!!
Cheneybush brought us $100 Oil. These two also brought us the concept of "War for Profit."
These duo's only concept of patrotism was to bring US The Patriot Act.
Anybody finally get it yet?
And yes, this has everything to do with oil spills in the Dakota's. The bleeding and frauding of America continues.
Hey, just what you people want. No regulations, no EPA, smaller government. You know phil, the big businesses do not care about you, they're laughing at you. You can tell people that they have helped you, but you're on here everyday, that's bs and you know it. If they had helped you as much as you let on, you would be watching the stock market rather than posting on here. I wonder if you're registered to vote. I wonder if you research the candidates. You obviously only watch Fox News, and come on here to spill you knowledge, what little you gain from them.
I bet the people of North Dakota are happy. They have a ton of great paying jobs. Sure they quote some hermit living out in the sticks as being unhappy, but the rest are probably happy. And yes, lowering regualtions and smaller government would help the entire country and wouldn't hurt us at all. We have a enormous government and regulations and they still can't stop everything.
PutAmericaFirst - Many people of western North Dakota are not happy, it isn't just that "hermit" as you say. You'd have to be up here to realize what has really happened. The economic benefits are fantastic, but the destruction of the environment, the influx of criminals, traffic/roads falling apart, rent prices have skyrocketed, etc.
Well some of those things are a part of success. You now have more tax revenues to cover the new roads and people will build more homes so prices will come back down. The reason rent went up was because people were making huge economic benefit. I wish I know more about the destruction of the environment, but haven't seen much on that.
agflew..Not to worry. For all that blowhard bragging, All it will take to bring these overblown right wing egos down to size is one good Wall Street Crash and zero bailouts. They know they've already swindled as much of their wealth as they can get and a market crash won't protect their wealth. Not when it's sitting in banks offshore in countries hot to extract as much as they can to protect their own economies. So, let guys like Phil spout at the mouth. Everyone gets a come uppance sooner or later.
Like I posted before, there's a price to pay for everything in this life. No one gets off scott free. Phil won't either.
PutAmericaFirst...You aren't putting your country first. Admit it. You and your ilk put your Big Moolah first. And as for those jobs? Did you happen to see that sign? $12 to $14 an hour? For a job in Big Oil when the Big Oil Robber Barons earn 10,000 time that? In NJ, $14 an hour is what most low income people earn. Course we do need higher salaries what with having to pay for the cleanup of 5 Superfund sites in the state left behind by rich SOBS who "put America first"...yeah...right.
The oil industry and republican party told me this would not happen... so it cannot be happening... because they told me it wouldn't.
You can't even tell what happened from the article. How do you know that the republicans didn't tell you it wouldn't happen?
PutAmericaFirst...Remember when Christine Todd Whitman, Bush's EPA head told Ground Zero workers there wasn't any toxicity or hazardous material dangers? Remember when she quit Bush's EPA because he and Cheney demanded she continue that lie?
Republicans are blackhearted, greedy men who only represent their cronies in Big Business and the Corporate Welfare state and their 1% who fund their evil back room agenda. Anyone stupid enough to believe the double talk of any man in the GOP needs their heads examined. I should know...I'm a former Republican. I got fed up hearing only male voices at GOP meeting and watching them play Lords of the Universe while double talking and lying through their teeth to each other, about each other and for each other.
My garden needs watering. Got things to do.
Well the good news is Obama is making jokes about his wife and another woman engaging in oral sex and the press can literally wipe it clean.
And you people listen to both side's talking points.
Amazing.
Happen to have a source to back up that outrageous claim?
Where did you come by that? The Onion?
President Obama has never been photographed holding hands with a Saudi Prince, has he? Nor, has he ever invited the enemy of our country to a Maine picnic like the Bush family did in the 1980's with the bin Laden family. That's fact that can be proven.
I hate journalism like this. This is an incridibly poorly researched article that sole purpose is to distort the truth. It is incredibly biased. You can't tell if we have a problem that needs to be fixed from the article. You can't tell if oil companies are being reckless. You can't tell what the environmental impacts are. The only purpose of this article is to deceive people. Otherwise, they wouldn't have hidden most of the facts. This makes Fox news look fair and balanced. Give us all the facts and quit trying to purposely deceive people.
I agree and disagree. I don't think the article was attempting to deceive people. There is a problem up there. I know many people in western North Dakota, and many of them are getting fed up with this oil boom. I wish they would have reported on solutions or what, if any, more actions are being taken.
That being said, it's great to see their economy booming, but it came with a load of problems - environmental, criminal, etc.
Documintary "GASLAND" watch it.
I watched Gasland and it has a lot of incorrect conclusions as well. It makes error after error so it is hard to believe what is true. Again another documentary designed to discredit the oil industry. He didn't search for the truth....he searched for what would be most damaging and left out a bunch of facts that go the otherway. Same thing with this article. Does it tell you the size of the average spill? Does it tell you how much was spilled? Does it tell you the potential envionmental impact? They purposely ignore those facts so that they can rile up a bunch of people.
If it Bleeds it Leads! This is how journalism works.
Yep love how its only one person who reporting seeing all this illegal dumping and ****. How many people live in N.D?
Not too many more than 1. Mistakes happen and the oil companies pay millions to clean up the mistakes.
As of 2010 there 672,591 people that live in North Dakota. So 672,590 other people have not reported seeing ****. What that tell you?
Citizens there have lives outside of monitoring the oil companies like hawks. Plenty of people have reported it - It just isn't in the article.
Hey Leatherneck check out a documentary called gasland and watch peoples water from their tap ignite or bybbles in streams catch on fire from drilling. Gas and oil companies have been comitting crimes for years and the corp. media wont cover it and why is it the the Bush admin. let the oil co. write reg. behind closed doors.
Jonathan.....those bubble have been shown to not be the same type of gas that oil and gas companies are drilling for. It is organic methane that naturally happens. It could have been going on far before Fracking and no one would know. It is odorless and colorless and only a little accumulates at the top fo the spicket.
Mad dog republicans would replicate this horror across the whole country for the sake of a buck.
Einstein better have Republican than a mad dog half commie on board
I wouldn't doubt if someone isn't getting some kickbacks.
for those idiotic tree hugging hypocrites.
Think about what you say the next time your filling up at the gas pumps and think about how much its costing you.
if we dont drill for it, then other countries will and charge us for it.
it doesnt matter if the drilling is here or there, its the same damn planet.
Thanks for showing us all that you have no idea how crude pricing works. Oil price is set based on the futures market. While we consume much of what we produce, production is less than 1/3 of what we consume, and we won't consume all that we produce. We do export a good amount of petroleum products (about 5% of overall consumption). If we were to produce 100% of what we consume, oil would still be the same price. You don't Acutally think that big oil is going to give Americans some "locals discount", when they can turn around and sell that same oil to someone outside the country for more, do you? Stop being so damn ignorant.
When the price of crude in Europe is $100/barrel, BP is not going to sell locally produced crude for less than that price, because they can just export it and make more money. Unless exports are regulated by the government somehow... But hey, we all know that big oil (free-market capitalism) doesn't work well with big government (socialist nanny state regulation). The only thing "drill drill drill" brings anyone, is big oil profit profit profit. It will not bring CONSISTENTLY lower gas prices. US oil consumption is lower than it was 4 years ago, and we've never reached 100% refining capacity, even though there have been no new complex refineries built in this country in over 30 years!
We're paying so much at the pump because people like to make money through oil futures. Watch as oil prices are going down now, and the economy will throw out a few more positive indicators elsewhere. As the economy shows those reviving signs, people will bet bigger on oil futures, and the price will go up again... It won't stop until the futures market isn't so greedy, or you can't bet on oil futures.
As for "idiotic", I suggest you go take an English class and learn the difference between "your" and "you're". I know illegal Mexicans that know the difference better than you!
By all stats Americans are using less gas. In fact I think the US is exporting more petroleum. Our major supplier of oil is Canada (not the middle east) and for those wanting the Keystone project has the mistaken notion that the oil from that project would benefit Americans. Even the CEO of the company involved in the project would not confirm that the product from that project would benefit American consumers. Even the Canadians don't want that pipeline going west across their country.
Play with this web site for the oil info...you'll be surprised!
www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=93&c=us&l=en
When 'tree huggers' advocate renewable energy to power electric vehicles, they're all high and can't accept the reality of a petroleum world. When they complain about petroleum pollution the rejoinder is, "Your gas is coming from SOMEwhere!" So, what - just stay at home and don't commute to work or anywhere else? Then they're losers. Public transportation? Get real - that's never gonna work.
That's called looping someone into a Catch-22 debate. No matter what the solution presented, shoot it down in favor of your own preference.
Petroleum has got to go. The sooner the better.
Remember, it's not just in your gastank; many other plastic products have petroleum at their base. So through away your cell phone, your tv, your pc, your car, etc because they all have some petroleum in them. Part of the reason we export more petroleum now-a-days is because we're not the manufacturing hub of the world anymore.
"Petroleum has got to go. The sooner the better."
This is a laughable comment from an extremely ignorant person. Tomorrow is the soonest, so let us imagine if petroleum disappeared tomorrow....
Chaos would ensure. The vast majority of cars would run out of fuel within days leaving motorists stranded along roads and highways. People would be unable to go to work, stock markets would crash, store shelves would be left empty without the ability for companies to produce goods and ship them to their destinations.
People would starve as food ran out.
Our infrastructure is nowhere near ready for petroleum having "to go". What you advocate, SandDiegoNative, is anarchy.
ensure = ensue.