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Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism
Donovan Richards first attempted to take his own life at age 4. The Wisconsin boy, who has bipolar disorder and autism, already had been kicked out of three day care programs, and his doctors were sure he would be in an institution before he turned 10.
To get the intensive treatment her son needed, but she could not afford, Paula Buege, Donovan’s mom, had to win approval from a review board made up of Dane County officials.
“I had 10 minutes to present his case. And my argument was, ‘If we don’t help him now, you’re going to read about him in the paper one day,’ ” said Buege, of Middleton, who now helps the parents of mentally ill children with a Madison-based nonprofit, Wisconsin Family Ties.
After years of treatment, Donovan is now a 17-year-old who plays in a band and wants to be a music teacher. While he continues to struggle, he has not been hospitalized for mental health problems in 10 years.
What saved Donovan from suicide or another tragic fate was a mother’s perseverance and taxpayer-funded mental health services.
But those public mental health systems in Wisconsin and across the nation increasingly face cuts as they compete for scarce resources, according to an investigation by the Center for Public Integrity, prepared in collaboration with the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism and other nonprofit newsrooms.
States, desperate to close cavernous budget gaps, have cut $2.1 billion from their mental health budgets over the past three fiscal years, according to a study from the National Association of State Mental Health Program Directors’ Research Institute, an independent nonprofit that collects and analyzes mental health services data.
The problems go beyond money. In interviews with mental health advocates and county and state officials, the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism found that Wisconsin’s public mental health system — once viewed as a national model — has become fragmented and underfunded.
And many experts fear that as Gov. Scott Walker moves to close the state’s budget deficit, the mental health system will be weakened even further. One county official predicted Walker’s changes could “devastate” taxpayer-financed mental health care in Wisconsin.
Among the problems facing the state’s public mental health system:
- The Wisconsin Council on Mental Health, the governor’s mental health planning council, estimates 232,932 adults and 106,149 children in Wisconsin have serious mental health conditions.
- Overall, 100,238 people received taxpayer-subsidized mental health services through their local county in 2009, according to the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau.
- Walker warned in his March 1 budget address that a “serious and long-term solution” is needed for Medicaid. Demand for existing Medicaid-funded services is expected to create shortfalls of $150 million by June 30 and $1.8 billion in Wisconsin over the next two years as federal stimulus funding ends.
- The state Department of Health Services (DHS) plans to replace $1.3 billion of that gap with state funds and make up the difference with $500 million in cuts to the Medicaid program —possibly by cutting eligibility, benefits or reimbursement rates.
“Services have been underfunded with the current budget, and now we’re going to see a $500 million cut to providing essential services to vulnerable populations,” said state Rep. Sandy Pasch, D-Whitefish Bay, a member of the Assembly’s committee on public health.
Pasch estimates Medicaid cuts could leave 65,000 Wisconsin residents without subsidized health insurance to pay for mental health treatment.
Untreated mental illness isn’t just a personal hardship; it’s a major driver of Wisconsin homeless and prison populations. Nearly one-third of all inmates in the state prison system are classified as mentally ill, the state Department of Corrections estimates.
Wisconsin DHS secretary to make big changes
As part of Walker’s controversial budget-repair measure, Dennis Smith, the Republican governor’s DHS secretary, has been given a mandate to reshape Medicaid-funded services to close the budget gap.
Smith hinted that big changes may be coming. In a statement, Smith said the state will focus its mental health care dollars on models that are centered on people’s needs, are community-based and are statistically proven to work. Mental health experts say such programs are in short supply in Wisconsin.
Smith said state officials will “examine the entire continuum of care at every age” and coordinate mental health care with other medical needs —a move long sought by mental health advocates.
Integration of mental health care with physical health care would help identify and prevent mental illnesses and reduce social stigma, said William Greer, president and CEO of the Mental Health Center of Dane County, a nonprofit agency that provides mental health and substance abuse services.
“The human mind and body are one and the same,” Greer said at a February symposium, adding that treatment should be available “under one roof.”
The new health secretary vowed to work with legislators, consumers, advocates and taxpayers in an “an open and deliberative process,” to identify ideas that will improve health while controlling spending, DHS spokeswoman Beth Kaplan said.
But some advocates are still leery about how Smith will manage a $500 million cut to the state’s health services for the poor. In a previous position as a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank in Washington, D.C., Smith encouraged states to opt out of Medicaid to save money and shed federal control over health care spending.
In one of his first moves, Smith announced on March 18 that enrollment for the BadgerCare Basic program, which covers adults without dependent children who were unable to enroll in BadgerCare Core, is now frozen.
Buege is worried about how her family may be affected by changes to Medicaid. Losing the benefit would leave her son without his medications and access to psychiatrists — the tools, she said, that have kept him mentally well instead of mentally ill.
“We’re going to still go to the hospital, we’re still going to go to the doctor,” Buege said. “People can’t afford to pay the bill. So who’s it going to impact? It’s going to impact everybody.”
Jane Pedersen of Menomonie in northwest Wisconsin has watched someone suffer needlessly because of a lack of affordable health insurance.
Pedersen has traveled to Madison seven times to protest Walker’s budget repair bill. She said she knows a person with a mental health disability and no insurance who stopped taking medication when he could no longer afford it. When he began to hallucinate, he spent several days in a hospital’s intensive care unit, she said.
“These people without health insurance tend to wait until they’re very sick to get help. ER care is the most expensive,” Pedersen said.
Counties run mental health programs
In Wisconsin, unlike in most other states, county governments run the publicly funded mental health care system, which is supported primarily by three funding streams: Federal Medicaid dollars matched by the county, state funding and local property taxes.
Walker has proposed cuts to Medicaid and funding to local governments. He also is seeking to freeze local property taxes to prevent officials from making up for the loss of state funding by raising taxes.
Some local officials are alarmed by Walker’s plan.
“This could significantly devastate mental health and substance abuse (services),” said William Orth, director of the Sauk County Department of Human Services.
While many states have cut funding in recent years, Wisconsin has maintained support for mental health services — although advocates say the system still falls far short of meeting the state’s needs.
Mental health expenditures in Wisconsin at the county level actually increased by about 16 percent between 2005 and 2009, to more than $428 million, according to the Legislative Fiscal Bureau.
But those increases may not mean more services, considering that “the cost of doing business has gone up” in health care, according to Ted Lutterman, director of research analysis for the National Association of State Mental Health Program Directors Research Institute in Alexandria, Va.
It’s not clear what’s in store for mental health care in the current budget. The few broad categories in the governor’s budget that mention mental health care, including operation of the state’s two mental health institutes, show small increases from current funding levels, but little detail is available.
“Funding is being cut everywhere and mental health is getting increases. I think that shows where Walker’s priorities are. It clearly displays he has compassion for the mental health community,” said state Sen. Mary Lazich, R-New Berlin, a member of the Senate public health committee.
But Pasch said she is “very concerned” how well services for the mentally ill will fare when local governments start cutting their budgets.
“When resources start becoming more and more scarce, my experience being a psychiatric nurse for 30 years is that mental health services are one of the first things to get cut,” Pasch said.
If fewer poor people are insured under Walker’s proposed budget, counties still will be on the hook to pay for core mental health services, including hospitalization, according to Kathy Roetter, director of Wood County Unified Services, which provides mental health care to residents in central Wisconsin. But counties would lose federal Medicaid matching funds for those newly ineligible people, she said.
DHS statement on mental health care
The Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism asked Smith to comment on the future of the state’s public mental health care system.
On the state's overall mental health funding: We are concerned that some individuals with mental illness are under-served in the current system or must navigate through a complex delivery system on their own. We will examine the entire continuum of care at every age. Our approach will be to identify models of care that work, support them, and replicate them. These models should be person-centered, community-based, and use evidence-based practices. Individuals will benefit from the coordination of their mental health services with other acute care medical services they need. We have already met with a variety of partners in the mental health community and have heard directly from consumers themselves. We look forward to working with everyone who is involved with improving the care to individuals in need of mental health services.
On how the governor’s plan for $500 million in cuts is reflected in the budget: The Medicaid program faces a $1.8 billion shortfall, largely because of the expiration of more than $1 billion of federal American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) funds on July 1. We are replacing those funds for DHS with $1.3 billion in new state General Purpose Revenue (GPR). To make up the rest of this federal shortfall, we will be looking for $500 million in savings in our Medicaid program. To bend this cost curve, and reduce expenditures by the projected amount, the Department will commence an open and deliberative process with legislators, stakeholders, advocates and taxpayers to identify and implement ideas aimed at improving health outcomes and controlling spending growth.
Care for mentally ill shifts, leaving gaps
Over the past 50 years, public mental health care in the United States has moved away from locked hospitals to community-based programs. Shifting federal budget priorities, a movement that advocated for the least-restrictive environment for the mentally ill, and a new generation of drugs for psychiatric disorders allowed more people to remain in the community.
In 1955, psychiatric hospitals in the U.S. housed more than 550,000 people, according to research by Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, a research psychiatrist and founder of the nonprofit Treatment Advocacy Center, which is based in Arlington, Va. By 1994, that number had dropped by 87 percent to 71,619 people.
But as hospitals emptied out, the funding didn’t necessarily flow to those community programs. Much of it simply disappeared.
A recent study from the federal Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) found that when adjusted for population and increased medical costs, the United States spent $261.7 billion in 1955 and only $30.9 billion in 2006 in funding for mental health care.
Wisconsin lacks services for young
Hugh Davis, executive director of the nonprofit Wisconsin Family Ties, says funding isn’t the only problem afflicting Wisconsin’s public mental health system. One of the greatest problems he and other advocates see is the lack of adequate mental health care for children and teenagers.
“There is ample evidence that that system has been neglected by our state for a long time,” said Davis, whose organization helps families with children who have emotional, behavioral and mental disorders.
He points to data that show Wisconsin is last among all Midwestern states in the percentage of children with serious emotional disturbance who are served by the public mental health system.
In an investigation of rural health care last year, the Wisconsin State Journal found the state has just 90 child psychiatrists, forcing some children in northern Wisconsin to wait up to two years to get counseling or medication.
System ‘just too complicated’
Lori Krinke of Madison, who has three children with disabilities, said it took her a long time to get help for her youngest son. Krinke is associate director of Wisconsin Family Ties.
Krinke said last year, it was nearly two months before she could find a bed at a state-run mental health facility for her teenager, who was no longer safe at home because he was chronically suicidal.
“Honestly, if he hadn’t gone to Winnebago (Mental Health Institute), he would not have made it to his 14th birthday,” she said.
Krinke says people with serious mental illnesses in Wisconsin have to jump through too many hoops to get the help they need.
“When it came to looking for resources for mental health for children, I didn’t even know where to turn. Frequently, the people who work within the system don’t know how to navigate the system. It’s too complicated,” Krinke said. “And the funding isn’t there.”
Smith, the new health secretary, acknowledged the complexity and gaps in the system.
“We are concerned that some individuals with mental illness are underserved in the current system or must navigate through a complex delivery system on their own,” he said.
Community-based programs underfunded
The outpatient programs that partly replaced hospitalization — including drugs, counseling, case management and day programs — are cheaper and more effective for maintaining mental health for all but the most serious cases. But in some parts of Wisconsin, they’re hard to come by.
About 30 years ago, Wisconsin was seen as having one of the top mental health systems in the country because of its strong county system, according to Shel Gross, director of public policy for Mental Health America of Wisconsin, a Milwaukee-based nonprofit advocacy group. But in recent years that system has actually become a liability, he said.
There is significant variation from county to county in the quality of mental health care because county boards decide what to offer and how many people they can afford to help.
As one measure, Shawano County spent the least on each person receiving services in 2009 at $1,534, while Jackson County spent $9,571 on each client — six times as much, according to figures provided by DHS and analyzed by the Center.
“It’s not fair that residents get different services depending on where they live,” said Roetter from Wood County.
Demand, cost up; community aid down
State funding for human services, including mental health care, comes to counties primarily in what are called community aids. While medical costs have risen and demand has increased, the state’s community aids funding has remained nearly flat for more than 20 years, according to a report by the Wisconsin Council on Mental Health.
Community aids funding for the current year is $257.6 million. If adjusted for inflation, the amount of community aids has actually fallen by more than $185 million in 20 years, according to the council.
Another stream of funding from the state to counties is shared revenue, which usually goes to pay for highways and other county services. The governor’s budget cuts shared revenues to counties by $36.5 million in calendar year 2012, from an estimated $183 million in 2011.
If the cuts in shared revenue and freeze in property taxes proposed by Walker are approved by the Legislature, counties will need to cut somewhere.
“How do you choose?” said Sarah Diedrick-Kasdorf, a senior legislative associate with the Wisconsin Counties Association. “How do you pick? Children or the elderly? Someone with a mental illness or a mother who needs help?”
Buege is glad that when her son needed it the most, the help was there.
“My kid is living proof; he would be costing us all a lot of money right now if we didn’t get those services,” she said. “And instead he’s going to be a taxpaying member of society.”
Reporter Kate Golden of the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Reporting contributed to this report. The nonprofit center (www.WisconsinWatch.org) collaborates with Wisconsin Public Television, Wisconsin Public Radio and the UW-Madison School of Journalism and Mass Communication and other news media. Lauren Hasler is at lhasler@wisconsinwatch.org.
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Another cut….
The mother in the article was right on message. There are a lot of people that need help out there, more like Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, Hinkley.
Having said that, not all under Psychiatric care need to be there. It is the help that keeps giving. Giving doctors big houses, boats investment accounts.
Too many use it as a crutch to not face a tough world. Suck it up, get in a 12 step program, get laid more...
Great story... but I know of at least one Individual who in the State of Ohio is simply gaming the system on mental health for a free ride!
We need to cut back on mental health payments to individuals like this..Its a waste of taxpayer money (at least in this case) and Im sure its not an isolated occurance.just an example of goverment waste
It is unfortunate, but we must examine the altruism of the situation and be clear upon the objective and it's outcomes.
She said..
Now shall we look at what this 'music teacher' is likely to pay back into the system that supported him, and her cause, for the years that it went on, and his continuing treatments?
Simple fact, unless he manages to win a lottery, the amortized sum is a figure that will always be in the red.
I don't want to appear heartless, or insensitive, but we are talking about a social welfare program here.
It always seemed entirely unfair upon the rest of society, that a person may give birth to a welfare burdon, and expect the gain of socialist programs that even they themselves could never hope to pay into as much as they may receive.
Certainly, I would not vote to abolish all such socialist programs, but we MUST be realistic and NOT put just one before the good of all.
In any case, I am happy to see that it worked out for both her and her son, and I hope I, and my children, and their children, and their's will not be paying for this for the rest of OUR lives.
Generations of drug addicted children are being born now, almost all with severe handicap, and we expect this socialism to last how long?
Right, we just put all these people in a burlap bag and toss them in a lake. If they can't pay back what it costs to save their lives, what good are they to society?
What a bunch of twits you people are. So about that, your great recommendation is to get LAID more?!? Really? SERIOUSLY? You people are clueless. Hatchet 101, you dont want to APPEAR heartless, but you clearly ARE heartless. So what is your solution you vicious nasty people? Shall we surround up all the mentally ill and give them the "final solution" WWII Germany style? That will clear out those "burdens on society" really quick. Cost benefit and all.... After all, we don't want to divert any money from empire building and our great big war machine..
This country is really gone to hell. What a sad state of affairs.
The main reason there's money for prisons but not for mental health treatment is that Corrections Corp of America makes big money off prisoners.
And CCA uses that money to fund the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), which writes mandatory-sentencing "model legislation" and hands it out to the politicians it funds at "information sessions" in informative locations like Las Vegas to get them to pass laws giving CCA ever more "profit units".
Is there any corporation making the same profits off the mentally ill outside of prisons? Apparently, they're more profitable locked up than treated.
While some mental health services are needed, many mothers seeking to pump up their income sign up their children for Supplemental Security Income (SSI) so that the mothers can avoid going to work for roughly the same amount of money.
In fat times, the government can bloat up by hiring tons of psychologists/facilitators that are eager to seize parenting and just about every other facet of life involving feelings, mood and verbal expression. In lean times, it's important to cut non-essential services that don't produce anything.
@ StrengthInNumbers
My solution is to stop providing social programs to drug addicts that keep popping out children with problems that the rest of the populus must pay for.
My solution is that women who are drug abusers and are found using near and around around the time they got pregnant should be denied freedom.
My solution s to cut the welfare programs and use that same money to police the health care industry that intentionally rapes the taxpayers.
As for your comment of my being heartless, I guess I am because I had to let my premature daughter pass on instead of keeping her on life support that I could not pay for, and would not have felt right about sharing the burdon with taxpayers that take the brunt.... so kiss my mutha f**kin ass !!
Tell me where your sacrafice is !! Taxes that you have no choice but to pay? How much have you DONATED ?
America has plenty of money for wars, tax breaks for the 1%, handing money to Israel and other countries, etc. No money for parks, kids, the elderly, the hurt. Thank god this is such a Jesus-loving nation. I'd hate to see how brutal we'd be if we weren't.
I have donated plenty, hatchet - hours and hours and hours. I volunteer in my community, I volunteer at my local hospital. I have easily worked years worth of my time as a volunteer. I am poverty stricken, I havent money. I do what I can with what I have. As for you and your infant daughter, you were busy doing the cost benefit analysis...? Thats pretty cold, hatchet. Don't worry, youre in good company. Plenty like you out there. If you place money and war above helping others and community building, the society you end up with will be cruel and vicious. If thats the country you want, youre doing a great job. I however, prefer a country that cares for its own and isnt busy fighting wars and buidling prisons. I am disgusted with this country.
Ever hear of the phrase, "Heal the Mind, Heal the Body". Credible physicians believe it, and researchers as well, by studying the brain.
If Obama care cuts out much of the Mental Health in his Government insurance, we will have a very sick Society, worse than today. Look how many loons are out there.
It is short-sighted to cut out this part of all regular Health Care Plans--some people desperately need counseling. It will only be the Rich, in all of Obama care that will get good medical and mental health treatment. They will pay cash for their own visits to Counselors, Psychologists, or Psychiatrists..
This will be devastating, and more costly in the end. Everyone will be affected.
This article drives me nuts!!
@ StrengthInNumbers
Why is this not a surprise?
Glad for you that being poverty stricken still affords you the time and means to afford a computer, get on the internet, post your comments, and hang around for a reply.
Your poverty must shallow others by comparison. Many of those just beg, borrow, and steal to acquire what they need.
Don't feel too bad, many Doctors would tell you that they are impoverished as well, compared to Warren Buffet. They make the same reasons you would to avoid the due consternation.
I hope your hours and hours of volunteering benefitted the life of at least one child, and thank your lucky stars that there are people like me who afforded you that chance.
For those above I have one question...When you are lying on your death bed, what is it you will regret not having done? Putting one more dollar in your pocket? I learned something about judging others. I did and then I found myself in their situation. I judged myself just as harshly if not more. Be careful how you grow your humanity.
What a lot of people don't know is that this is the kind of cut that has spill-over effects on the rest of the public sector which are also facing cuts. For example, mental health cuts will cause people to enroll in universities so they can get help there. But people there aren't trained for that. They'll try because they're good people - but it won't be the same. All this even more work and less pay for the rest of the public sector. It's just too bad we can't get our morals straight in the US.
ENSTROM: turn him in,if you know an abuser of the system turn them in.. 1% abuse, is no reason to cut completely as Wisc.,and any GOP gov state..locals will suffer, at the hands of there own Govs, refusing to use the ACA in there state, no matter how many people suffer. No Dem Gov yet to refuse the ACA and the new medicaid funding...only the GOP run states.
The only cut you'll never see is these crook's salary and benefit packages..............NEVER!
@Hatchet 101,
You are making a fool of yourself.
@Strength In Numbers,
You don't owe Hatchet or anybody any explanations. Good for you, by the way for giving your time!
So Hatchet, you assume because I have fallen on hard times, that I am a freeloader. Im college educated, been working since I was 14, and had a professional career. Unfortunately, I am one of the victims of this DEPRESSION. Or have you noticed...? Lots of people have fallen on hard times. I have what I had back in 2008. Actually, less, as I have had to sell alot of my personal belongings. I am, according to government standards, living in poverty. I do the best I can. People fall on hard times, hatchet. Theres lots hurting out there, and no fault of their own. But again, you seem like a real mean ba$tard, so I dont expect you to understand that. But like I said before, dont worry, theres plenty of other mean ba$tard$ for you to hang out with. You know what the problem is with your sort, hatchet? You just can't empathise. You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that YOU could end up needing the help of others. Or if you already have, you choose to have selective memory about those occassions.
My father suffered from being bi-polar...every few years he would decide to not take his meds because he felt he was better...and every few years I had to fight to get him help. They would ONLY take him if he admitted himself, and then just medicate him, then release him. Years earlier, when his condition first showed itself, he was put into a mental hospital (several different times), received electric shock, and, I am sure, was mistreated like many people were back then.
It doesn't matter what happens now...mental health has never been taken seriously. Then when someone hurts someone else (or even worse), suddenly people look at the problem...still, it all goes back to the same. People will not get the help they need, and others will be hurt because of it.
As far as I am concerned, it is the "1%" and the Party of No that has the mental health problems.
Thanks not-so-lazy... good wake-up call. Ive said my piece. Hatchet, feel free to swing away with your last words, Im finished.
Geez, why am I not surprised by this? We all know who Gov. Walker is beholden to. Can't believe this guy survived the recall vote so easily. I thought Wisconsinites were smarter than that.
Gabby Giffords has Jan Brewer to thank for half her head being blown apart - yep, those balanced budgets sure are important.
With teabag republicrap leadership the mentally ill will be left for families to care for. Some think that is the way it should be, but until YOU have to care for someone that needs mental help YOU WILL NEVER KNOW HOW STRESSFUL IT IS. Then you say "it's their responsibility", it sure is but at some point in that child's life society has to become involved. As it is mentally needy people are gravitating to the most extreme political party, the teabag republicraps. These people will never help society UNLESS THEY CAN PROFIT FROM IT.
Be very afraid. Do you realize that 25% of all the women in the USA are being treated for mental illnesses. What is really scary is that the remaining mentally ill women are not receiving treatment. I could apply that to the liberals, I am sure you would agree. :-)
Isn't it just the coincidence that dirt bag governor scott walker now is drastically cutting back the budget of the mentally handicapped. I bet those koch boys are lined up with their hands out waiting for their 1% corporate welfare handout out of that money. That's how it works for the gop(greedy old party)folks.
Hey hatchet, please post as often as possible as you are the creepy poster boy for the gop/teabags and their selfish, uncompassionate, hate and anger mentality and it is good for everybody to see the kind of low lifes that are driving the ideology of the republicans/teabags. Dude you know what? I'm speechless except for the fact that I genuinely have to say "I feel sorry for you". You certainly are one that will suffer because of these cut backs.
Don't worry in 2 more years all these people that can't afford mental health will have health insurance thanks to obamacare. And if they don't get insurance they will pay the tax or penalty and get the expanded medicare from the state. Soon we will all be broke paying for free healthcare and everyone will be crazy.
drain..I believe it was the guy who shot her...you see..that's how a gun works...you actually have to be holding it to use it...
The Obama supporters here represent mental illness.Blind faith in some fool just because he is the first black president. No matter how stupid his thinking is.Mental illness giving four more years to a man who wasted the first four,two with a majority and could have pushed through anything.
Just get rid of government union payments and all people with disabilities can be taken care of.
I am quite sure that Scott Walker is to blame for the budget deficit, I am quite sure that he is to blame for being the guy that is stuck trying to fix what's broke without breaking the backs of every property owner in the state, why did he win the recall so easily? because he doesn't run away from issues like this, he meets them head on and not everyone is going to agree on the best course of action, this isn't a political issue this is a human issue, get over losing and stop slinging your mud over your sour grapes.
Just think about how much of the money spent on a useless recall could have been used better, and quite honestly if you are looking for those most in need of mental care just pull up the recall petitions and you will find that the majority of those signatures are people that need some sort of treatment.
I have done my homework and I have found that there are many resources for mental health issues, but it requires you to do something besides sit on your butt and wait for it to come to you.
After months of exhaustive efforts we found pharmaceutical companies that will give you their medications free out of their pocket if you can show the need, and demonstrate that you are truly at poverty level, the problem here is people for get what it means to pull their bootstraps up and do for themselves, stop making excuses instead of sitting in the freezing rain collecting signatures to recall the best Governor in the country, why don't you start making phone calls and letters to address what think the injustice is, at this point it is every bit as effective, if you can afford to go to Madison to protest, why not use those efforts for a Positive change, flame away, said my peace oh and it is Lilly, and Abbott they both were very compassionate to my aunt.
I can't believe the comments by you people. You think money grows on trees - you don't want to cut medicaid, welfare, ADC, or any other program to cover mental health. It is a matter of give and take and priorities. You want your roads fixed, you want the massive pensions that are being handed out to the Govt. workers, you want everything you want at all cost and money is just going to materialize. Well it doesn't work that way - you want to keep something or increase a program and something else has to be cut.
Those of us that pay taxes have pockets that are only so deep and to be honest we are getting sick and tired of every bleeding heart liberal, that thinks that every person whining about a situation should be helped. Well guess what you can only tax so much before we the tax paying citizens wonder what the hell we are working for because we don't see any benefits - just a big a$$ drain on us - so why bother. I know that now that Obamacare has passed I am guess that all those charitable donations I have made annually to the Salvation Army, United Way, Koman and other organizations that were there to help the less fortunate are no longer needed. See I have to make a conscious decision that says wow my taxes are going to go through the roof - so I have to cut somewhere else and since we are going to do such a bang up job of taking care of the less fortunate via the Govt. dole - well then my charitable donations aren't needed any longer so I will divert that money to other uses - like payinmg my bills, paying for my family and kids so they aren't a giant sucking burden on society like other people think is their right.
Julkie's post above nailed it exactly. The problem is a Profiteering Prison System.
If America doesn't wake up, the Privatizing Corporations will completely destroy the middle class and certainly the constitution. We live in a Oligarchy, which ALWAYS precedes Fascism.
What's so horrifying to witness is the vast number of mean, dimwitted and/or easily duped who support the corporate criminals. It's your own ignorant and inhumane so-called neighbors who are not just allowing this to happen but will happily do what they can to MAKE it happen. I guess it's the same type of person who so eagerly joined the Nazi Party in WWII and then tried to pretend they were "forced" somehow after the the Fascists fell.
And they will fall in America. Eventually. Let's hope its by the people refusing to allow it to happen and the laws get changed. Privatization is on par with Fascism, don't kid yourself it is somehow not.
I wonder why Wisconsin was the TARGET State. Hmmmm.
Think it is bad now since most States are in deep RED and cutting services, just wait until the Mandated Universal Health Care Reform legislation kicks into gear and these States have to make up for the Medicaid cost fiasco.
The first to scream that their BENNIES have been cut will be the Liberals. Guess they can scream at Mrs. Pelosi since she understands the Mandated legislation.
many experts fear that as Gov. Scott Walker moves to close the state's budget deficit, the mental health system will be weakened even further
Oh Well! Why should this be any surprise to anybody? Governor Walker's friends spent 60 million dollars re-electing him, just so he kept on cutting all the social services that he can, before he runs again for re-election.
I hope that the people of Wisconsin get what they deserve: The mentally ill usually end up homeless or being a worst burden to society when they are untreated.
Do you think that this always happens to "someone else? 'OK Keep your head on the sand and keep voting for Paul Ryan's best friend: Scott Walker. You don't realize what it is that people with mental illness has to be through, until it happens to you. Then, it is too late.
Enough of the nasty posts folks. I am a conservative and a Christian. We do indeed have a mental health crisis in this country. I am appalled that every county in every state is not required to have a first-class mental health facility to help those who need it. I am also embarrassed that the state of NC is closing Dorothea Dix Hospital in Raleigh, and either the state or the city will most likely turn that land into a park. We do not need another park! Regardless of political party, I do not see either side doing what is right to help those in need. As baby boomers age, the mental health crisis in this country will only get worse. State and local governments need to be proactive and not disregard the seriousness of this issue. This is not a matter for the Federal government, but rather a State issue to address.
just wait until the Mandated Universal Health Care Reform legislation kicks into gear
Hopefully then, some of the homeless people will get treatment, and be able to hold a job, return to their families that are probably looking for them, or be active members of society.
What a shame for the GOP and people that are always preocuppied with " First me, Then me Last me"
It is unfortunate, but we must examine the altruism of the situation and be clear upon the objective and it's outcomes.
Famous last words...I hope that you hear them too if you end up at the hospital with a disease that will bankrupt you, or make your life miserable. All of us can get sick of something very expensive, and you are not the exception.
AHHH the 'left', always advocates for spending my money.
AHHH the 'left', always advocates for spending my money.
Chief justice Roberts has done a TREMENDOUS favor to all Americans by demostrating that he is ABOVE all the political rhetoric going around from the GOP. He recognizes the importance that having a healthy country is the patriotic thing.
If you prefer that your taxes go to war, it is your choice, but I prefer to use them to help some of the people with mental illness, homeless and in misery. Justice Roberts is gaining my respect again.
@ justoneguy
If you actually read more about Obamacare, you would learn that it is to get everyone else to pitch in.
What we have for healthcare for the last 48 years is what you said, what Obamacare mean is to get 30+ millions to join in and pay for it.
Funny you trash it and yet have ZERO UNDERSTANDING about it all.
Sounds like Hatchet could use some of that socialized mental health.
Ok for all you screaming the sky is falling. WI and other states will continue to spend billions (cough, cough) on Medicaid, including that used for mental health coverage. They are merely trying to rein in the costs.
You see, governments at the state and federal level are BROKE. We can't throw UNLIMITED AMOUNTS OF MONEY at every single issue and problem. There is no magical money wand. And no, for the trillionth time, taxing the rich won't make even a teeny itsy bitsy tiny dent.
Walker laid out his plan.....divide and conqeur........with the outside money he did exactly that for the Koch bros. Look at you rt and left ....all divided, while the rich 1% take even more of your money with more tax breaks for the 1%. And the rest of you rt and left, foot the bill for them.........divided...and...conquered.
Tea bagging republican extremist in government and many simple folks in the country of that ilk as well are trying to be Rome. Only the Rome when it fell, into the dark ages. They wish to live as uncivilized Barbarians where only the strong survive you do not care for the weak sick or old treat women as subjects or property while disintegrating in to the darkness. This incessant need to regress move backwards against Gods will while claiming they KNOW Gods will is laughable my friends. The wish to live the lives of those who failed to fend off the plague. They see the dark as there bastion and savior they prefer EVIL over good because they cannot recognize one from the other.
It has been QUITE the struggle for man to get to this point to come this far trough time. It is by Gods will alone that the dark ages ever saw light again. To be able to cure what we do to be able to have air conditioning in a time of three digit temps and to drive cars and EAT freely for a dollar well,.. The dark ages isn't any of that. It is called dark for a reason. No light bulbs or electricity. So jog on already chaps. ; ]
God made time move foward for a reason. Dont blow it. Because you will regret it when its all gone. ; ]
Cheers
For those saying that Obamacare will help the mentally ill. Here's what will happen if you actually read it.
More will be put on medicaid that actually pays almost nothing for mental health treatment. Many states' medicaid programs reimburse less than $30 per hour for mental health treatment. That might seem a lot but by the time you subtract overhead, time spent for paperwork, and the fact that you get nothing if the patient no-shows (happens quite often with medicare/medicaid patients) you make less than minimum wage. Even the most caring professional can't survive on that, so few will take medicaid! Also, many states will only pay medicaid dollars to psychiatrists, so that means the only line of treatment is pharmaceuticals and little or no treatment of the underlying issues. It also means that little goes into helping the mentally ill help themselves. Thus these individuals are medicated for a few days then end up back on the street.
For those on regular insurance, the insurance companies are breaking off mental health so that they don't have to follow parity laws. That means $2000 deductibles (just for mental health) before they pay then $50 to $80 limits per visit with $35 copays. That translates into them actually paying maybe $300 a year in mental health benefits if you start seeing someone at the start of your plan year. Start any later and they end up paying nothing. They're also back to requiring approvals every few visits and tons of paperwork.
So much for hope and change. Guess someone has to pay that averge insurance exec salary of $30 Million a year.
did any of you rabid democrat, republican haters, even read the whole story? There is a shortfall of money..the freebies that the Gov't is giving is drying up...they replaced all but 500 million. They are looking at ways to trim the fat...abusers of the system..redundantcy in programs..etc...so what is your problem??? Sounds like the Governer is right on track...house cleaning, same as the Feds oughta do
For every person who has been helped by mental health "professionals" there are three more whose lives have been destroyed.
The atheists will burst into flame at this, but please, gentle reader, ignore their anger and flaming pride if you know the hard-earned serenity of self-control.
Whoever said that "the mind and the body are one" is an ass and a fool Even the ancient Greeks, ignorant as they were, were smart enough to know better than that. Life is full of evidence that the mind, while affected by the body, is independent of the body, transcends the body, and rules over it (within the natural limits of physical things).
We don't so much need the guidance of diploma mill-spitouts to heal our spiritual problems as we need wisdom and the grace of God. You can't buy these and you can't find them in textbooks exclusively promoting Dr. Frankenstein's methods, but this terminally foolish microscope-blinded society is doing all it can to try to kill them. To understand the mind you need to know its origin:
"In the beginning was the Word."
Society's near-absolute ignorance of step one explains why we have a mushrooming proliferation of "mental health" issues. And the drugs these pill-pushers sell as the only "solution" they know of to fix behavioral difficulties only make the problems worse over time. More psychosis is caused by these diabolical substances than has ever been cured. And the self-fulfilling pseudo-"science" of the mind just keeps feeding the Gorgon while wondering in amazement that it keeps getting bigger and stronger.
A spiritual problem requires a spiritual solution. You can ask legions of recovered/ing alcoholics if you need a clue, but there are many others who can give you clues as well or better.
Mike - Good try actually I've seen you post here day in and day out and all you are a shill for the Republican Party
Really fess up - this all started when your St Raygun - took federal money away from the states and emptied these poor souls
out of the State Institutions for the mentally ill poured them unto our streets
Your BS continues to lie to the public - and yet just asking - do you have a conscious or are you paid enough to lie?
So I say to all of you anyone who is gullible enough to listen to Mike's lies are fools of the highest order - he is a paid shill
Just another cut to the middle class and poor so they can give more welfare to the rich, but Wisconsin had a chance to get rid of him, so they obviously like reverse robin hoods.
I guess it really doesn't matter since the messiah Barry has a plan to save the world with obamacare...cough...tax. More taxes on middle class, notice he didn't tax himself or congress!
What a hack job MSNBC, "Jane , of Manomoie , KNOWS SOMEONE who will use the ER for several days" Who is this "SOMEONE" ? In my state of MASSATAXES, DEEEVALL PATRICK lets some parents put 4 and 5 children on the mentally disabled rolls so they can collect what amounts to a WELFARE check only SSI pays BETTER !!! The Boston Globe did a big article on it 2 winters ago ( GOOGLE IT ) . These parents didn't get welfare so they scammed SSI at their kids expense and it IS PERVASIVE IN THE SSI PROGRAM !!!! KICK these freeloading slobs AND THE REVIEW PANEL OUT as they were blamed in the Globe article as saying "IF WE DON"T GIVE THEM BENEFITS WHERE THEY WILL SUFFER 'CAUSE THEY WON'T WORK AND WE CAN"T HAVE THAT ! "
It was just a matter of time before some religious fanatic was going to come along and claim all you need is God (John116). Lets see how that works for a brain tumor or get yourself a compound fracture and then just pray the break away, John.
The healing sciences have come a long way since leeches and exorcisms, and if you havent caught the latest headlines, John - the earth revolves around the sun.
Little irritates me more than someone who fails to grasp the concepts of scientific inquiry, claimin large portions of our science is flawed - based upon their reading of a book of patched-together stories written by a bunch of random guys over 2000 years ago.
Quit in Michigan,
Very good post.. I never looked at it that way before. Now that ACA will become law of the land I will be putting my donations to causes such as United Way to good use, within my own family.
The author of this piece of garbage, Lauren Hasler, and the contributing "reporter", Kate Golden, are both members of the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism.
This entire screed is based upon "...an investigation by the Center for Public Integrity, prepared in collaboration with the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism and other nonprofit newsrooms".
Can you guess what all of these organizations and individuals have in common?
You are 100% correct if you said GEORGE SOROS. The radical Leftist billionaire, whose goal is a ONE-WORLD GOVERNMENT under the control of the UNITED NATIONS, funds ALL of them.
It's not at all surprising that MSNBC would give voice to such a large, steaming, stinking pile of feces under the guise of "news reporting" since they are ALL just TOOLS of the Democratic Party using the "principles" espoused by the Marxist Saul Alinsky in his Liberal guidebook, "Rules for Radicals".
WISCONSIN puts mentally ill people on conditional release AFTER they are treated in institutions, for YEARS. They are treated like criminals. It's actually a drawn out punishment. They do not understand meds and how they help, instead they prefer to control and make these people prisoners, not even letting them leave the state for vacations!
13 years of taxpayer mental health care and he's still struggling?! Sounds like it was not a cost effective treatment plan. Thankfully, Roberts came up with a convoluted way to uphold ObamaCare. Now we can get a panel to just give him a pill and get him out of the way.
For thousands of years the tribes of Africa and Europe took great care of their mentally ill and elderly. These were great people of high standards and morals even though they were considered primitive. Unlike MOST of their modern counterparts.
Strength in numbers...
Rather humorous of you to try and cite a cost/benefit analysis as a bad thing on two points. the first from a personal point and the second from a reality pov.
On the personal point, my dad succumbed to a brain tumor. My parents had good insurance coverage that could easily have covered the majority of the surgical costs. The doctors would do whatever my mom wanted. The prognosis was that the surgery was very risky and even if successful would still leave my dad bedridden and probably living in a vegetative state. The alternative was to give him comfort during his remaining time, even if he was semi-comatose for nearly a month before he passed. I am sure that my mom did a cost benefit analysis as well. An analysis that dealt more in weighing both my fathers quality of life as well as my moms. BTW - She was a retired nurse and after nearly 30 years without him she still misses him but has never regretted her decision.
The second point is that of one of only financial resources. ie, when government runs low they are the ones that have to decide on where to allocate funds. One could even call them death panels since someone in government has to decide on who gets the limited funding. Interesting that you and others want the government to do more, but don't you dare raise my taxes, raise them on the other guy. A rather interesting catch-22 event wouldn't you say?
Faith healing a solution huh John?.............Back in the 50's mom bought a faith healing record by Oral Roberts. It came without a hole in it so we could not play it on the record player. So we drilled a hole in it and everytime we did, the hole would heal up so we still couldn't play it.........
Barbara, Actually I was an Obama supporter and heck even supported Carter, that was a mistake. Now I am one of those independents who believe in financial conservatism by government and am socially very moderate. Look at my posts and you won't see me favoring the republican party much either. Both parties are made up of the crooks and for the crooks.
As far as help for the mentally ill, that's my profession and every year Republicans and Democrats both suck away the funding for mental healthcare. In FL a long time democrat now has gained a contract to administer mental health dollars and it just came out he was in the pocket of a large private corporation that he's going to be funneling the money through.
Want to talk about mouth piece for a party, look at your posts. Can the democrats do wrong? Go spew your rhetoric elsewhere, those with brains are quickly figuring out that both parties are being paid off by the 1%.
A disabled elderly friend of mine went through a period of struggling with a flare of PTSD brought on by witnessing similar abuse as she had suffered. Years earlier she was given meds and counselling. Both helped tremendously. But when she reached 66 and on medicare, she couldn't find a counselor that accepted Medicare payments within 75 miles from where she lived. She more or less vegetated for 6 months, increasing her meds through an understanding primary care physician. She copedas well as she could -- which was NOT well -- while her family and friends had to stand helplessly by, watching the deterioration. Meds without counselling is only a bandaid on the problem. Medicare already limits the availabity for seniors to get help. Yet they often need counselling for a short time, many after suffering the loss of a long time marriage partner and having their life turned upside down because of that loss alone. As people age, their ability to accept change diminishes. THAT is a proven fact. It will happen to all of us.
If it isn't the insurance companies rationing care, it is the government run health care programs already. I don't look for that to change for the better.
But Governor federal stimulus funds are BAD? That's what you told us. State's rights. That's what you told us. Walker doesn't like his own medicine. He cut the state's budget and forced the cities to pick up the difference for such luxuries as schools, cops and firemen and now the feds are doing it to the state. Governor raise taxes to cover it or just step over the bodies. Being a GOP stalwart we know which one you'll choose.
Here is the Republican agenda: cut taxes (particularly to the wealthy) and let the poor DIE.
If you don't believe that, look at the evidence: Paul Ryan's budget calls for extreme cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.
Since Medicaid's federal funding is cut, the states have to pick up the slack. In WI, and other GOP dominated states, the state does NOT increase funding, instead it makes cuts and forces local government to make up the difference.
In Wisconsin, the truth is obvious, not only does the state cut funding to the local governments, but the state makes sure the local government CAN'T help they people. Republicans in control in WI want to make sure that the poor DIE.
Dirp, unfortunately the way the system is going Medicare and Medicaid will both face extreme cuts in the future to keep them solvent (That's not a partisan view.. even Clinton and Bush stated that during their first terms). Both parties have made it into a political football when it could have been fixed with less pain 30 yrs ago. It's in the mess it is in now because of both parties stealing from the pool to fund other things and not reimbursing it with sufficient returns. The whole system is also a governmental red-tape nightmare that promotes fraud.
I'm NOT for throwing the whole thing out like some but only a fool would fail to realize that the system MUST be fixed now or face total collapse later. All that either party is doing now is threatening the other and not really solving anything.
Thanks for your support in continuing the political football game by demonizing the other side. That always helps to solve problems.
Isn’t it Amazing, you always hear the Republicans and TeaBilly Politicians Threatening to Reduce or Stop Payment on Unemployment, Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, Military Pay and Benefits , Etc. But have you ever heard of them Threatening to Reduce or Stop any of Their Pay, Healthcare and all the other Special Perks they receive (Paid for by our Tax $$$$$$$).
Lets break this down in simple terms. Republican TeaBilly Conservative = Self Righteous Hypocrite.
Ok jstdafacts
You pinpointed the problems.....so who has solutions to actually fix the problems? Where are the brilliant minds to bring about change and solutions................cause Im sick of it all too
except for me, its both sides of the isle
Nobody believes your fascist propganda, give it up. Or should I say grow up.
And just to disprove your lies, leftist WA state has cut back on the same programs long ago to balance their budget. Funny how leftist propaganda outlet MSDNC didn't bring that up.
Crawl back in your hole troll.
As far as I am concerned, it is the "1%" and the Party of No that has the mental health problems.
except for me, its both sides of the isle (Aisle) or were you talking about a land mass?
Then you are just another clueless victim of right wing propaganda or have been living under a rock for the last close to three years as one party has spent all that time trying to make sure the President is not elected instead of working for America.
Sorry Phil, but not only do a lot of us believe it, we've had to face it first hand. All of us have watched the one time "model of healthcare" crumble before our eyes in less than one generation. President Clinton tried to fix it and was ridiculed by the likes of Newt Gingrich and his Contract with America cronies. Bush II didn't give a damn. Too busy starting unfunded wars and pillaging the surplus from the previous administration. Finally, President Obama, as promised, modeled a plan after his opponent's, passed it through Congress, signed it into law and the SCOTUS upheld it. We're finally on our way to making some progress. So what do you have to offer? Nothing, is what i'm guessing. You're the one who needs to give it up.
@breadex --- Getting rid of Obama is the most productive and positive thing that can happen to this Nation. If you want to voluntarily pay more in taxes go ahead. Nothing is stopping you. But then again, Libtards are only good at spending other people's money.
@ NC Vet- You're right. Spending for the poor, disadvantaged, and ill is unfathomable. Lets keep our tax brackets how they are. In my opinion, when corporations pay minimum wage to their employes and bring home six figure salaries or more, they are in essence spending the money that does not RIGHTFULLY belong to them. That way the 1%ers can spend it on vacations, 4th houses, and the like, while their bottom level employees can't even afford mental health services. Its convenient to be greedy when all of your problems can be solved by money.
Do you have any idea how much benefits and pay they actually recieve? I dare you to provide any facts...you will find, they don't receive omg money amounts...
factcheck.org Its your FRIEND...though it works against you this time
@ Kyle...
I can tell you have never run any business. It is not unfathomable, its called balancing the budget.
What you 'people' forget is money comes from somewhere. The rich is not the answer.
You want the rich to pay their fair share? stop buying their products. INVEST YOUR MONEY YOUR HOME YOUR LIFE, into a company and RUN IT YOUR WAY.
Untill you do that, shut up
Ahh Phil, the GOP troll strikes again.
Many many posts, he demonstrated that he is clueless about almost everything. When people present FACTS to him, yes FACTS after FACTS, he is still going on and on about things people correct him many times over.
The healthcare we have for 48 years failed again and again, the solution from GOP is? NOTHING, NADA, ZERO.
Obamacare = Romneycare = GOP health plan, but it has Obama name on it, so they hate it. That's all.
Kyle - Do some research before spouting off your usual liberal drivel. You could tax the wealthy to high heaven and steal all their money, and it wouldn't make a dent in what our government spends.
repeat after me: WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM. THERE IS NO MAGIC MONEY WAND. WE CANNOT SPEND UNLIMITED AMOUNTS OF MONEY ON EACH AND EVERY SOCIAL PROBLEM. And most importantly: THERE WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH MONEY TO SATISFY LIBERAL SPENDING DESIRES.
Cuong...it hasn't failed...its just not as 'omg' as people want it, people who probably will never put in what they take out...this isn't greed its simple math.
The only answer the dems and libs have is, make the rich pay for it. Yet in every universal healthcare system out there...even the POOR pay. The problem is the poor don't want to pay here, not to mention the rampant ABUSE of the system by the very poor who want it.
@ elitewolverine
You should take a look at Germany before you say anything else.
What they have is a "labor representative" on top of each company by law. Yes, it may sound bad, but so far they have around 5% unemployment with long vacations and universal healthcare. I would pick it over this.
You may also learn that thousands of millionaire reports to have off-shore accounts to avoid tax for years and hundreds of them denounce US citizen to avoid paying for tax. The rich tried to avoid paying "fairshare" for long time.
And if you learn more about Obamacare, you would know that is not the case. You will eventually need to go to the hospital sometimes in the future, who will pay for it?
jst... Show me which party has voted to reduce their pensions, close the million dollar gym, place them on medicaid for health coverage, reduce their salaries, end their free airfare, stop their overseas vacations (I mean fact finding trips), put a hold on their salaries if they can't create a budget, etc etc.
They're all crooks, and they keep the pawns divided into sides so that the politicians can continue to rule. Each side blames the other and stirs up their base against the other. They're doing us just like the rulers have done in the mideast. Define an enemy and keep the people focused on that enemy so that they ignore and accept the corruption within, because someone must fight the dreaded enemy who will destroy everyone!!
@ Cuong As per the article, federal funding for mental health has dropped from 261.7 billion in 1955 to 30.9 billion in 2006. The Democrats have been in control of Congress (House of Rep 1995-2005 and Senate 81-85 and 95-2005). That's a long time with a big drop in funding. It can't all be from the Republicans.
And if learn more about Obamacare, you will have to go to the hospital. You are no longer considered a patient. You're referred to as something like a digit (having brain fog, can't remembe). Any how, if you are over 70 and an emergency surgery, a panel of hospital administrators will determine if you are a good candidate. They, not doctors, will decide a persons fate. This will happen, even at 3:00 am. A neurosurgen, who had just gotten back from DC for a meeting regarding this part of Obamacare, was on a radio station informing listeners of what's in store for us. Doesn't sound very good. I don't want my life to be decided by an administrator.
Lastly, I just wonder if people forget this because I haven't seen this mentioned lately - our income taxes are going to increase because health care will no longer be taxfree. I pay $600/month for insurance = $7,200/year. My husband has $2,800/year deducted from his paycheck to pay for my copays/meds and the rest of the family. That equals $10,000 that will now be taxed on my income tax return. I don't know about you, but that is a tax increase and a big one at that. By the way, we are a middle class family, making 50K a year. Explain how that is helping the middle class.
"Obamacare" is a boon to nobody except the predatory insurance industry. Without an option for the public to buy in to Medicare (Yes, NOT Medicaid, which should be reserved for the absolutely needy...), we are all now beholden to pay whatever price the insurance companies choose to
fixset, with NO regulation and NO oversight. Literally, THE MOST GLARING EXAMPLE OF FASCISM WE HAVE SEEN YET. How any D-bag party hacks/shills can get on here and declare "socialism" this, or "socialism" that, is absolutely beyond me. This IS the marriage of the corporation and the State=Fascism.Oh, and to anybody that naively believed this was not intended as a "tax," explain how that reasoning required the hiring and training of THOUSANDS of armed IRS agents for enforcement. Why would the IRS have jurisdiction? Are all of you really so
blind stupidnaive...?Given the option of a Medicare buy-in, I guarantee that MOST people would choose it. Single payer (read:EVERYBODY pays) healthcare is vastly cheaper than the for-profit model we currently employ. Forcing people to pay for private insurance will not magically make them ABLE to afford it. We already choose between things like medical coverage and quality food, keeping the lights and heat on in winter...
Please also realize that now as a law, it can be modified to put you in jail for not buying insurance by executive order. Think it won't happen.
A wise man named Biggie Smalls once said, "Some people. They don't know? You can't tell 'em."
LOL. You have GOT to be kidding. Most of the people screaming for single payer equate that to mean "FREE". They don't think they should have to contribute anything. You think those 47% of Americans not paying income tax think they should have to pitch in and pay? Pffft.
Tucker123, you don't want your life "to be decided by an administrator"? I guess you're happier that now it's decided by a person hired by the insurance company who may, or may not, even have ever been an LPN! I've had a neighbor who was one of these people and who had moved into the position after being an Admistrative Assistant for one of the Vice Presidents of the "non-profit" she worked for. You tell me which is more qualifed, please?
Mike Cleveland, you state that belief in the existence of mental disorders is bad science, and then you recommend a "free" spiritual program from a religious website as a rational alternative, implying that all mental disorders are simply spiritual disorders. You are either a huckster or a fool, but either way you are a menace to society. Though I do not believe in the existence of a hell, people like yourself who prey on the mentally handicapped make me wish for one.
I actually don't feel sorry for Wisconsin. They choose to keep Fuhrer Scott Walker, Governor.
Wisconsin, You asked for it, you got it, live with it and make the right decision in the next Governor election!
(I do feel bad about the other states, especially Fundy Tennessee, )
And thats my opinion.
Have you ever noticed there are cuts in health care, police, fire departments, etc. but there is always money to give state and government legislators salary increases and bonuses.
To lay out the truth, the rich who are taking over this country would rather spend money to the military industry complex than caring for citizens. Eisenhower warned of this, noone took heed. So now we gonna be biblical in that real soon drones will be patrolling america, and as the gap widens between the rich and the poor widens frightens me. I am thankful t6hat I am enterining the second half of my life according to life expectancy, cause it would suck to be a newborn considering the way way the world is heading.
Richard Small, Im right there with ya, brutha... I am in the latter half of my life as well, and looking around, I too am glad for that, and, I am SO glad I didn't have children. This country is a travesty compared to what we used to be. Its truly becoming a cruel, dystopian place.
Mental health care for the last thirty or more years has been the poor step child of the health system. In the majority of cases it is a physical ailment manifesting as a mental illness. The witch doctors that treat it are merely pill pushers and if one pill doesn't work there's always another. They don't even known exactly how some of the pills they push actually work.
They can fix the problem by starting to correct the flaws in the system, that's fine. In the end though they are going to have to fund the system to a level that will do some good. The funding for prisons never seems to be a problem. (Oh yeah, that's right, prisons are profit centers for corporations that run them now a days and for the politicians and local governments where they're located.)
We've got money enough to support other nations needs, money enough to protect corporate interests overseas, money enough to start wars whether they needed to be started or not, but never money enough for the people of this country.
More liberal lies. WA state has done the exact same thing, way before WI did. So I guess Fuhrer Greguire as well, right?
As far as I am concerned, it is the "1%" and the Party of No that has the mental health problems.
This mental illness of doing things with no funds,we cant keep going on debt.
This mental illness of doing things with no funds,we cant keep going on debt.
That is true! Let's stop funding wars. That will save 2 billion dollars a month to begin with.
"Obamacare" is a boon to nobody except the predatory insurance industry. Without an option for the public to buy in to Medicare (Yes, NOT Medicaid, which should be reserved for the absolutely needy...), we are all now beholden to pay whatever price the insurance companies choose to
fixset, with NO regulation and NO oversight. Literally, THE MOST GLARING EXAMPLE OF FASCISM WE HAVE SEEN YET. How any D-bag party hacks/shills can get on here and declare "socialism" this, or "socialism" that, is absolutely beyond me. This IS the marriage of the corporation and the State=Fascism.Oh, and to anybody that naively believed this was not intended as a "tax," explain how that reasoning required the hiring and training of THOUSANDS of armed IRS agents for enforcement. Why would the IRS have jurisdiction? Are all of you really so
blind stupidnaive...?Given the option of a Medicare buy-in, I guarantee that MOST people would choose it. Single payer (read:EVERYBODY pays) healthcare is vastly cheaper than the for-profit model we currently employ. Forcing people to pay for private insurance will not magically make them ABLE to afford it. We already choose between things like medical coverage and quality food, keeping the lights and heat on in winter...
Please also realize that now as a law, it can be modified to put you in jail for not buying insurance by executive order. Think it won't happen.
A wise man named Biggie Smalls once said, "Some people. They don't know? You can't tell 'em."
PS-Valhalla Phil.
Bit-ch all you want about Gregoire. I will continue to bit-ch that WAGOP couldn't come up with someone better than Dino Rossi... Seriously?... That's the alternative. At least McKenna has a brain and some worthwhile ideas... You know, without being a worthless POS of a human being. Jay Inslee is a talking head of cabbage in a suit, and sadly, dumb party hacks (NO MATTER WHICH PARTY, MIND YOU) will likely serve to elect him, governor AND to re-elect our FASCIST National Reps. Murray and Can'twell.
You need to go into a closet and stay.
Mike, You have no idea what you're talking about. I wish you would tour an emergency mental health facility. You might be surprised. I can guarantee that cutting funds for mental illness will result in even more suicides, more murders, and more homeless people digging through garbage cans while they talk to their voices.
I have a son who is mentally ill. He had insurance. But the insurance wouldn't pay for hospitalization or therapy. They would only pay for pills. The pills don't work. As a consequence, he is now unemployable, uninsured, and homeless. He wanders off and disappears for weeks at a time, while I hope against hope that some criminal doesn't murder him, or some overzealous cop shoot him, or he doesn't just lie down somewhere and die. He is the sweetest, most loving person you would ever want to meet. But when his illness goes into high gear he loses touch with reality. He doesn't know what he can actually do and what is impossible. So don't tell me the cuts in mental health funding are a good thing. We need more funding, not less. We need to help people who are too sick and confused to help themselves. We need safe places for them to go, where they can get treatment, food and shelter free of the abuse they get on the street. You're wrong, wrong, wrong. I can only hope that you never have a child that is so helpless and vulnerable and undefended and misunderstood. People like you make it possible for society to sweep these poor souls under the rug and ignore their needs. May you get what you deserve for your lack of common decency.
Questionable parenting has a lot to do with mental disorders.
You might want to get a bit more current with your science Gunny - that's 1950's logic- Do me a favor - look up a local NAMI group and stop by one of their support groups and talk to them - do a little reading - and do a little fact finding
What are YOU doing to help YOUR child?
And then you have a woman who has 3 (count 'em 3) children with mental problems?
Gee,have 5 or 6 more and see if there is a pattern there why don't you.
Welcome back to the 17th century.
May God be with you Underemployed. It is unfortunate that the rich have brainwashed our country into taking money from the poor and give to the rich. Wish I could pay the 15% tax rate romney pays in taxes. God be with your son and my prayers are with you.
What do you think Obamacare does. It's just another tax cut for the rich, meanwhile the middle class foots the bill.
As far as I am concerned, it is the "1%" and the Party of No that has the mental health problems.
Sure thing Patrick. I'm the 10th of 11. Of my two sons, one has a successful small business, and the other earned his PhD at age 28, and currently is a Professor at UofK. Neither had the luxury of being raised at the Mall, or being privy to ADHD or any other parental approved diazapams. Speaking of 17th Century, have you thought about perhaps a frontal labotomy?
Questionable parenting has a lot to do with mental disorders.
With that statement I could say maybe that happened to you but I won't
And yet another Oxy from a Moron. Keep breeding more ex's. And Tyler, I meant solely what they said was an oxymoron. So you can banish me later. And gollie, I think I would have quit at 3. But with the new laws, we can all breed on without any recourse.
@underemployed,
Right on!! I have a 15 year old autistic/bipolar son and he suffers daily from these disorders. It took over 2 years to get him state funded help. But even those programs have been cut so drastically that the amount of help he does receive is less than enough. May God bless your son and you.
GunnyCoop - Aren't you lucky - I too have two sons - one who was attacked by a dog while a bitch was in heat had his ear severed - sewn back on - but in the interim his pituaritary gland was damaged - when he was five - needs pitrasin for the rest of his life
Pre-existing condition - while I worked for a drug company I was able to provide this medicine - after retiring he was on his own - no insurance company would touch him without exorbitant costs - irony in this he is a health care provider
Now under this new Affordable Health Care - he can now get Insurance
There is somewhere for these people to go. Into a privitized prison. So much better than a mental health facility. The people who are cutting support for mental health are the crazy ones and should be in privitized prison.
Had you said social disorders, you would be correct. However, as you put it, you're 100% incorrect.
@underemployed and kimmerhawk - I'm sorry, but why is it the job of the local, state or federal government to provide help for your children? I have a younger brother who has autism and adhd, all of his care, treatment and medical expenses, that insurance doesn't cover, are paid by his father, the SS that he started receiving when our mother passed away, is put into an account for his college fund.
You chose to have kids, and with that choice you should have chosen to be able to care for them on your own. If you couldn't afford that, you shouldn't have had children.
natedom, if everyone sused your logic to decide whether or not to have children, ONLY the multi-hundreds-millionaires and billionaires would have enough money! None of us know what life has in store for us during our journey. YOUR child could be getting meningitis right now and IF he lived through it, could require around-the-clock nursing care for the rest of his life. Please don't tell me you'd have him euthanized if it came to that!
Most people who become disabled or need extensive medical help come to that bump on their road through no fault of their own. I'm not going to be mean and wish it on you and yours. I will say, though, that I believe you ARE one of those people who just won't understand unless it happens to you or yours. Let's both hope and/or pray that doesn't happen.
According to you, your brother was fortunate to have a father whose employment offerred insurance that he could afford to pay for, and that he made enough $$ to pay the rest. Or perhaps there were needs YOU are NOT aware of that didn't get met because your father could NOT afford it. Are you certain you have the whole picture? I doubt it. Most fathers would not "burden" their other children with the details they try, and sometimes fail, to work out. You likely will NEVER know the whole picture there.
natedom: It should read: If everyone USED your logic ... I hate typos and my computer acted up so I couldn't get it fixed in the time allowed. Sorry.
@Love it or Leave it - if my children were to develop meningitis or some other long term disease we would be able to pay for their care just fine because my husband and I both have employers who provide insurance, we wouldn't depend on the state to care for them. Nowhere did I say anything about euthanizing people if you can't afford to provide their care, I asked why they felt it was up to the government to provide that care.
As for my brother, you are right, most parents probably wouldn't burder their other children with problems, but up until my mom passed away last year, she told me everything about my brothers medical expenses and appointments, because in many cases, she needed help with them, either with getting him to and from his multitude appointments, chaperoning his class field trips so there was undivided attention on him so he didn't wander away, help with paying for some of his medical expenses, or simply a second person to go to the appointments with her in case questions arose that she didn't understand. I have maintained this same relationship with my step-father, because at the end of the day, family is supposed to take care of family.
If something were to happen to one of my children, I have a very large support structure in my family who would do anything and everything to ensure they receieved the very best care. If they needed around the clock care, it would be handled. This is what has happened with my autistic brother, this is what has happened with my husbands uncle who has down syndrome, this is what has happened with my uncle who is blind, this is what happened with my aunt and my grandma when they had cancer, and this is what happened with my mom when she spent 3 weeks in the ICU before she passed away. That is what family does.
No Problem Folks........da Wisconsin Governor still has all of his Socialized Healthcare Benefits.....Paid for by Our Tax Dollars.........so what is da Problem?
Lets break this down in simple terms. Republican TeaBilly Conservative = Self Righteous Hypocrite.
jst, Obama has his paid for life, is that wrong? Hypocrite!
I beleive the word Hypocrites goes back own the democrats cause they helped put us all in this mess. So why don't you get your little say straight.
Republican TeaBilly Conservatives Agenda and Thought Process:
Babies and Gawd, Babies and Gawd, Babies and Gawd, Babies and Gawd, Babies and Gawd, etc.
If they would spend Half the Time and Energy on The Economy and Jobs, The Economy and Jobs. this Country would really begin to Move Forward.
Some Men you just can't Reach..........and they wonder why their Ratings are falling to record Lows.
You BetCha.......Fer Sure.
And the fascist propaganda continues. WA state did the same thing.
All the nasty childish comments here come from the Obama folks here.You live in some world where money isnt a problem.16 trillion means were broke.States are broke.People are broke.We need spending cuts.
And term limits for congress,BADLY!
Parents cause their children to be mentally ill, you say? That has to be the least educated and most self righteous thing I have ever heard. Open a book and close your mouth.
The Senate want put none of the VOTES OWN THE FLOOR TOBE VOTED OWN RIGHT.
like mre clevland is some sort of expert on the subject
the blood is on the hands of every person that voted for walker and his lt governor
More liberal lies. Greguire in WA state did the same. Is there blood on the idiot liberals that elected her?
mental health always gets cut and most presenting medical problems have a mental health component. you would think extreme right wing republicans would increase spending on mental illness on account of their all nuts.
Liberal lies again. See 9.1
Saw 9.1. It was a stupid comment then AND your current "Liberal lies again" is JUST as stupid. The article is based on a WISCONSIN investigative report. It also makes it VERY CLEAR that OTHER STATES are also cutting mental health funding:
"States, desperate to close cavernous budget gaps, have cut $2.1 billion from their mental health budgets over the past three fiscal years, according to a study from the National Association of State Mental Health Program Directors’ Research Institute, an independent nonprofit that collects and analyzes mental health services data"
There is not ONE LIE in the article. But what is obvious from your comment is that you have the critical thinking skills of a moron. Sorry, that is not correct because it is an insult TO the critical thinking skills of morons.
Phil, it looks like they're playing "wack-a-mole" on your right wing trolling tonight. Be careful, your spinning yourself into the ground again.
Sorry, Progressive,
but the TRUTH is that the National Association of State Mental Health Program Directors’ Research Institute AND the Center for Public Integrity AND the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism are PROPAGANDA OUTLETS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN THE EMPLOY OF GEORGE SOROS.
They are ALL just lying, left-wing wh0res. They are about as INDEPENDENT as Barrack Obama.
To present this garbage as NEWS is despicable; a new low even for MSDNC
Quick Quiz:
What was Geo. Soros' fist job...?
Google THAT $hit.
Repugnicans have little sympathy for the mentally ill and others unable to help themselves. As a telling example, just look at the cuts they're pushing to eliminate mental-health services for veterans with PTSD and depression. If Repugnicans don't even want to help those who risk their lives in the nation's defense, imagine the typical American's plight in a Repugnican-controlled state.
And the liberal lies just keep on coming. Pathetic.
And the idiot conservatives just keep on using the critical thinking skills of a two year old. Which of course is an insult to two year olds since they obviously have MUCH MORE DEVELOPED critical thinking skills. No names mentioned of course "Valhalla Phil".
And for the record, you want to go at it with your conservative BS, let's do it. And let's start with the HISTORICAL RECORD. WITHOUT EXCEPTION, America has done MUCH better under liberal/progressive programs and idealogy which favor a strong Miiddle Class, well funded education and help for ALL Americans. And with a progressive tax system with the wealthy and corporations picking up more of the burden because when they do so EVERYBODY in America does better.
@Valhalla Phil, perhaps Thor's hammer landed one blow too many? Anyone capable of doing a web search can quickly learn about Repugnican efforts to cut military benefits and eliminate programs for veterans. The excuse is, as usual, reducing government spending, which Repugnicans apparently consider more important than the well-being of US military personnel. Of course, the real truth is that the money "saved" goes straight into the pockets of the wealthy.
Optimist you lie like all your DEMOCRATS do every darn day they breave out there socialist mouths.
Irene,
I find it VERY difficult to believe that you have any clue as to the definition of "socialism."
...but I'll bet you'd call 911 if your house was on fire...
Why do they never think of cutting off ILLEGALS first?
For all of you whining about Republicans (and no, I am not one)... I live in California, where Ronald Regan did the first deep cuts to mental healthcare, by doing away with the mental health hospitals etc. However, since then we have been run, almost exclusively by the Democrats...not one, NOT ONE overturned Regan's edicts, nor have they brought it.
my pardon the last sentence is left unfinished and I did not notice before the time to correct it had lapsed. It should have read *****nor have they brought it up, instead they left the mental ill to remain homeless in our streets.****
I agree Angela. There are 7 medical doctors in my family so I hear alot about whats going on in hospitals and private practices here on the east coast. The illegals are putting a major strain on the healthcare industry. I guess obamacare will cover them now, which means WE will cover them. But the bright side is that alot more money will be going into the healthcare industry and hopefully it will be better able to handle the increased volume of healthcare needs.
I 'might' agree with you, except when has a government run program ever 'better handled' anything?... If you guessed never, you'd be right.
I agree with you again Angela!
Really? The post office is highly efficient and the ONLY reason it is losing money is because of REPUBLICAN bills to deliberately under fund it. Medicare/Medicaid has 2% administrative costs as compared to 11% for private sector (i.e. for profit) insurance plans. Social Security is an EXCELLENT program that contrary to constant right wing propaganda is doing just fine and if properly funded will continue to do so. You want some more examples?
The reality is for the last 35 years the well funded and extremely efficient right wing propaganda machine has been pounding government spending, higher taxes and anything else that does not fit their conservative agenda. And idiot Americans are falling for it hook, line and sinker.
You need to talk to your obvious reps the right wing. Only way to stop illegals is stop letting them get jobs. Right wingers love them as they keep the costs down for the 1%. There was no need to replace the California mental health the Reagan destroyed they do it different there now.
Actually government run health care works in most 1st world industrial nations. There is a great deal more to why they might not work in our country than "government run". The polarity of two parties does not help. The misinformation spread by both sides. Misinformation by those that will not profit from a government run health care. Misinformation about mental health issues (in this day and age I am suprised there is so much of it). Why psychiatrists prescribe pills? Ask any insurance company, it costs them less than doing the recommended cognitive-behavioral based therapy and medication management. Underinsured or non-insured can't get even the medications they need to ensure that they are contributing members of society or at a minimum not a risk to themselves or others. Many of those with chronic mental health issues can support themselves if properly treated. Emergency rooms have become emergency psychiatric clinics for the uninsured and in Seattle it is not the "illegals". This is where many of the uninsured receive their psych meds, not very cost effective.
Homeless shelters are overloaded with the mentally ill. Homeless live on the streets of Seattle and are primarly mentally ill. They sleep on both private and public properties. Cuts in mental health will only make it worse. Did our gov make it worse. Yep. Could she have cut in other areas? She already did.
And Angela, we have always covered the chronically mentally ill. Unless they are stable enough on their meds or their therapy to work, or are under the age of 18 and on their parents insurance. The new health care bill was partially intended to insure people so that they do not cost us as much in other areas. And outpatient medical or mental health care is less expensive than hopitalization on the taxpayers.
Mentally challenged individuals will be in jails instead of getting the proper help they need. The jails will be overcrowded; inmates will be released due to the states not having the budgets to provide facilities; among a society that will suffer the back lash from this repugnant thinking of the likes of Scott Walker. In the end it will cause a great deal of harm to our society. This is truly a walk back to the dark ages where sense and reason have no place, there will be only room for the wealthy who will subjugate their populations, many who will rebel, just remember Mr Walker, these people have guns and you are giving them a reason to use them, on their neighbors, authority figures, and ultimately a failed government which you represent...the target is painted on your own face by your own hand, hope you are likewise willing to accept the consequences of your actions.
Where have you been voiceinmyhead? They already are.
breadex Get real, I live in LA, no one cares about me, unless I don't pay my taxes on time. I'm about ready to leave this state. It's a cesspool here, filled with the foul stench of Mexico's castoffs. And yes, the do 'do it differently'...they let the mentally ill wonder the streets doing drugs, being abused, etc. until they end up in jail or on a 72 psych hold. I stand by my post, if the Dumbass Democrats, who've run this state into the ground, gave a rats behind, they would have help them, but they didn't. See the mentally ill mostly don't vote, illegals do (and as a former pollster, I've seen them, but that's a different subject)...
ponygirl-6085399 I'm a nurse, you live in dreamland...
Angela- Obviously - you don't know this one so may I inform you - Medicare Administrative costs are 3%Insurance Companies Administrative Costs run 20 to 25%
What this new bill does if Insurance Companies run over 8% they must rebate to their customers - that's why they have been lobbying tooth and nail not to pass this act
The best way to fix this would be to mentally commit Walker and his RepukliCON buddies for life.
Most of us know that being a Republican is a mental health disease.
I would start with the union nut jobs who think wages twenty times that of china make us competitive.
Ourdoc - The Republicans are not crazy - they have been bought and paid for by the NRA, Koch Brothers, and the Chamber of Commerce - it's the money honey and lest not forget the billionaires who want to buy our next election
Are you dumb not to understand there is a cash problem. You must be one of the bottom feeders of society.
Ed....and the republican Ryan plan does what...Oh yeah...more tax cuts for the rich. Just who pays the taxes of the rich who won't be paying taxes.....YOU EDDY. Cuts to the middle class and higher taxes for the middle class and poor by 20%. Ryan plan increases National debt by 7 trillion. You can thank republicans for the mess with King Norquist getting 95% of republican politicians signing the Norquist pledge. First the repubs pledge to the constitution and Americans, to take office, then pledge to Norquist putting him and the rich above the nation. Like traitors.....pledging to Norquist above the constitution. Taxes for the rich 1% are at an all time low. Remove their tax breaks back to Reagan era and that will help immensely. You are not the 1% and vote against yourself......that is insane,,,voting against your self interests.
Much of what is provided by therapists can be provided by friends. I say organize and subsidize self-help groups led by more senior and accomplished patients themselves - and increase access to prescription med's, which is at least a bandaid to suicide. This would definitely help depression, which is a big one - along with chemical dependency. I have a perspective of one who has worked within the mental health system, as well as taken services a couple different times - was not impressed, not at all. We all need more social support, let's try that. It's a lot cheaper, too.
Friends are not therapists- they can't be objective nor can the recognize patterns of thought and behavior that could lead to deadly consequences if left unrecognized. This negates the profession as mere snake oil selling and is an unfortunate misconception that leaves many out in the cold due to unnecessary stigmas.
Genius! Why has no one ever thought of just taking the mentally ill out to a movie and a cup of coffee before? You've just saved billions of dollars and relieved the sufferings of untold millions.
Now I'm off to cure my sister's schizophrenia with a round of mini-golf!
So you are saying that if I had more and/or more understanding friends that the complex PTSD wouldn't be an issue...?
What the hoot is going on in Wisconsin? Seem's the whole republician base is at war with them. Wisconsin people are good Americians. Does this mean the Republician base is against America? I mean, they are laying off the backs of the 1%, that's clear in everyway. Who are these tea-party dudes? I know republician leaders of the past, these people are not the true repubublicians. Something very fishy going on. All I know, they are not going to get away with it from the 99%. America watch outside money coming in for the governor from billionaires like the Koch Brothers.
Cut social programs - just encourages those who want to milk the public system. Cut school teachers - if you can't afford private schools, you aren't entitled to education. Besides, everyone knows that education builds Democrats. Cut fire fighters and police - those forest fires all happen somewhere else. But, for God's sake, keep those tax cuts coming for the top 1% who are the "Job Creators". After all you need to take care of the real constituency - those able to make those donations that we all survive on.
The lowest income earners in the country pay NO income tax. I know, I have been one for a long time.
I'm no 1%er, and I am not even in the top 50%. But, I STILL aspire to be moving up, and I earned my education on my own, no loans, though it took me a very long time.
I never asked for hand-outs, nor blamed others for my situation. I just felt it appropriate to take it upon myself to do what I could, ON MY OWN, to make a better life, and STILL believe in the American Dream.
I am doing so. I am NOT my brother's keeper!
Stop blaming others, or constantly saying it's "Someone" else's fault that you don't have what you want.
Work for it!
If you have children, pay for them yourself, and don't put the burden on others to solve your problems.
Sorry Brilliant - what year did you graduate?
My son who is 50 - I paid for his tuition it was $16,00 a year room and board and he worked summers for all of the extras
I paid for my tuition as a working mom in the 50's - graduated from University of Chicago and my husband worked summers and graduated with a degree
My youngest son has a College Degree and so has my daughter - pennies
Yet my grandchildren are looking at both College Degrees with a Doctorate which will cripple them for about ten years
And what about my great grandchildren which I now have two - what is their future? $100,000
Nothing wrong with blue collar jobs. Get your little hands dirty!
Meh...what a shock. Funding gets cut for something and people QQ about it. Instead, why not examine the problem and follow it back to it's roots. Therein you may find solutions other than online verbal flailing about.
Why does funding get cut? Lack of revenue. Why is there less revenue? People worked less and paid less taxes. Why did people work less? Because lots of people lost their jobs when the ecomony tanked a few years back. Why did the economy tank? Well, depending on whom you ask the answer to that varies, but ultimately lies in the same general zone: Greed, laziness, and stupidity.
Unfortunately those three ingredients have existed since time immemorial, and they will continue to exist until humans are gone and the insects rule the planet. There are plenty of greedy, lazy, or just plain stupid people to blame. And the solution? Have fun figuring that one out. Myself? I plan to enjoy the ride as long as it lasts and roflmao when the inevitable end arrives.
And, btw, I don't suffer from insanity...I enjoy every minute of it.
buzz - Darn answer your own question - less revenue because the 1% have the lowest tax rate since the 1930's
Less revenue less progress - pure and simple
RAISE TAXES that's the answer to budget deficits raise taxes on corporations especially as they do not pay their fair share and have never done so. States should never cut services ever period. This is idiotic repuke stratedgy to sell all poor people down the river.
Why should I pay for your problems?
You have no right to use my hard earned money at YOUR discretion.
Taxes ARE going to be raised in January 2013, and again in 2014, but not for the corporations, for us.
Tiff....taxes are at an all time low..especially for the 1% who are not satisfied and want to pay even the less than nothing that many of them and corporations are now doing. That lost revenue is made up by YOU and the rest of the middle class and poor because the rich use their money to buy politicians, like the Norquist pledge did. The difference between Dems and rt wingers is this, the Dems do not like paying the taxes for the 1% and corporations that pay nothing. The rt wingers like paying the taxes for the 1% and corporations that pay nothing. Rather than rt wingers go after the rich who are making rt wingers pay their taxes for them, the rt wingers go after the Dems who don't want to pay the taxes for the rich.....!
DUHHHHH!
You already stated that you pay no income taxes in post 16.1. Matter of fact, you even stated you have not paid income taxes for a long time. So who's problems are you claiming to be paying for? As I see it, my tax dollars are going to fund your share that you are not living up to.
How about you keep your hands off of my tax dollars and stop acting like you are contributing. I pay more in taxes because you don't.
I'll ask you again. Since you already stated you pay no income taxes, what hard earned money of yours is helping others? Let me answer that. Your tax dollars... Oh wait, you don't pay any income taxes. Never mind.
Tiffany- you are a pathetic uneducated dumbo- get a job-
Those of you screaming about corporations not paying taxes do realize that when companies are taxed at higher rates they simply increase their prices to offset the taxes right? You also realize that states that don't have a corporate tax are fairing far better than those who do right? MN and WI are perfect examples of this. While companies are fleeing WI in droves (Harley Davidson doesn't even have a factory there anymore) MN companies are holding strong. Why? Because MN doesn't have a corporate tax. It is really quite simple, if you are a business owner, are you going to open shop in a state that is going to charge you 7% of your earnings (not profits, but earnings) or in a state that is going to allow you to keep your money, thereby making it easier to be successful?
Wholesale cutting of budgets to treat mental health and it's a certainty that there will be more tragic violence, suicides and the deaths of innocents. After that happens, it's, "lawsuit city."
Guns, motor vehicles, mental illness and alcohol don't mix well at all.
No, they don't. But they founded one of the greatest Nations on earth.
With Obamacare now upheld as law, health care will now be rationed via medical boards, instead of as it has been by financial ability to pay. Health care is just another resource.
I am unsure of why the issue of spiraling health costs is NEVER addressed as caused by the fees charged by doctors, who are just passing along their costs of education to first BECOME a doctor and the malpractice insurance required to cover themselves.
It's no wonder the era of family doctors and small practices are fast becoming an American artifact.
Education itself is a resource, and if we keep offering loans to more and more people to get a college education, this drives up education costs, because demand to get into colleges causes colleges themselves to raise their prices, thus making doctors pay ever larger sums to receive their degrees, then they pass along those education costs as fees, and .... well, you get the idea.
Stop already. Stop blaming others. Stop blaming Repubs or Dems. Just understand the WHY of what is happening, THEN we can solve it. It's all interconnected.
Too much distraction, not enough facts and reason.
Well now there is a way to cap fees and perhaps it will also cap insurance rates driven by greed and may result in caps on frivilous lawsuits aginst medical professionals. There are fewer and fewer family doctors and OB/GYNs practicing because of the high cost of malpratice suits. No-one believes that sometimes nature does not give them a healthy baby or insure that they will live through a medical condition or procedure.
Your healthcare is already rationed by your provider if you have insurance. They dictate who you can see, how often and what procedures they will cover. They give you a formulary for the drugs you are allowed to have.
So how is one medical board different from another? They're all jerks in suits trying to get between my doctor and me and what kind of care I need and what kind of meds are the appropriate ones. A jerk is a suit is a jerk in a suit is a jerk in a suit.
This article can be summed up right here:
Politically motivated hit piece.
All media outlets for both sides are amping up their hit pieces. Only four more months left to brainwash the weak of both parties.
I have no problem cutting government waste, as long as it is WASTE. Now Walker is targeting helpless Americans while at the same time he has given generous tax breaks to wealthy businesses in WI, who did not run right out and begin hiring people by the way. This is what I see as the TP agenda, which is why I, who used to support the GOP, will no longer do so. They are the front runner of the new Feudal class system in this world, right here in the good old US of A.
We send millions and millions in foreign aid but ignore our own. If you added up everything the government wasted this would not be a problem.
You should change your moniker,positive me,because you are not! Are we suppost to take care of everyone,everytime they have a crisis?How is that emotionally,financially,ethically possible?
So what's your solution? Summary execution of the mentally ill? Hitler already tried that one.
Mas098, please update your educational reading skills! Positive Me was saying we send millions (really billions) overseas while neglecting Americans. *sheesh* Idiot. If we kept the overseas spending IN America, all Americans would get better care in every sector.
Please read my post twice, since I doubt you got it the first time.
The question should not be how are these people going to survive but how have so many citizens becomes so fragile and in need of mental health services in the past 2-3 generations! Were there that many mentally ill folks out there when I was growing up? I don't remember ,except one guy , that anyone or everyone thought ,needed a fuse replacement.So,where did they all come from? Are they aliens? Are they damaged citizens of other countries and sneak in to get our mental health facilities? Or is this another feel good project promoted by Universities as a ligitimate course of study and then promoted into the public surrounding to do "make look busy" work environments! I swear,I have never seen a crazy person on my block(except me),never knew one when I was in schools of as a kid! How did we grow so many wackos in such a short time frmae.Is this what happens to you when you sell your soul to the dimocrap beliefs or tie your ass to the entitlemet wave sweepinig over uS ? Someone,please tell me! I want to know and i'm too stupid to figure it out by myself!
I guess you could ask the same thing about pedophiles, domestic violence, child abuse? The mentally ill existed, but no one talked about it. Pedophiles existed but no one talked about it. Domestic violence and child abuse happened but no one talked about it.
TerrifromIllinois, you are exactly right, at least about domestic violence and child abuse. My father beat my mother at least weekly. When he actually beat her so badly that my 12 yo sister ran to a neighbor to call for help (we didn't have a phone back in the mid-'50's), he was thrown in jail after it taking 5 sheriff's deputies to get him in the squad car! The judge left the decision to my mother as to throw him in prison. (That type of reaction was unheard of in those days -- unless it was an extreme case -- and ours was.) She said she just wanted him to stop drinking, so he was ordered/committed to the State Hospital (they still had them then) where he received treatment for somewhere between 60 - 90 days. And yet -- it was NEVER talked about by any of his 7 sisters or brothers or Mom's 8 siblings. And, of course, his parents never spoke about it either. Maybe none of them ever were told. Anything having to do with domestic violence and/or child abuse was covered up as tightly as wall-to-wall carpet!
In some ways, mental health issues are still VERY stigmatized, as is the disease of addiction.
Excuse me, but what country are you living in? Maybe it's time you woke up? And maybe you could stop demeaning people with mental health issues by not referring to them as "crazy, wacko's, and in need of a fuse replacement". Consider yourself lucky that you or your loved ones don't have these problems. Any by the way, it has nothing to do with politics!
OK, so a state that has raised its budget about 50% while other states have been cutting back is now bad. The suggested solution is raise taxes on the corporations. The reality is that corporations just work to raise the price for their products to offset the increase in the tax. The result is the consumer ends up paying that tax increase in the form of higher prices. If they can not afford those higher prices, they must cut back. It usually results in unintended events. How a state deals with mandates from the federal government is very tricky at best. Regardless of the intent, there needs to be funding to meet those mandates. The federal government either needs to fund the mandates or it needs to let the states opt out. Since the federal government is broke, the states should be able to opt out without penalty or issue. We, as consumers, are able to make the choice to live in the state or not. Yes some of these decisions are very difficult but they can be made none the less. We do have the ability to vote for the government we desire. Please vote.
LIKE HELL THEY SHOULD. We as a country have a duty to help and protect our most vulnrable citzens. The lack of compasison out of conservatives irks me to no end. Profits are not the be all end all money takes a less important point than does morality and ethics.
What will happen is that these mentally ill people will terrorize the rest of us. They will go to jail, spend some time there, and get out and start terrorizing again. We read all the time how these "children" terrorize their parents and in some cases kill the family members. Either way, we the taxpayers are paying for their deeds, whether they're in jail or terrorizing people.
If you had any knowledge of mental illness, then you would know that people who suffer from it do not characteristically "terrorize" people. Cost/benefit analysis aside, working with the mentally ill for just one day would make all but the most heartless person would realize that anything but caring for people and helping them is asinine. What ever happened to "love thy neighbor"? I didn't realize that the corollary was "if they are a foreign country who controls your oil, and if it doesn't cost too much."
Sally- I'm originally from Chicago - and I always thought we were smarter than you're silly postingFirst of all if mentally ill patients who are suffering from dementia and have their medications they are not a threat to society - it's a matter of treatment
Next - where do you get the idea children are at risk? Sane people like pedophiles - put your children at risk
Next there should be adequate housing and a stable environment for "there but for the grace of god" go I provided for these unfortunate people
Support mental health or i'll kill you!
I saw that bumper sticker. It must have been on YOUR butt.
Stuff happens, families take care of it and don't need thousands of dollars of a shrink to tell you that your kid is messed up. A 4 year old committing suicide is stupid and driven to it by ridicule and the family. Some do need the assistance but I take care of my children as they are and expect others to do the same as well and don't want to pay taxes for others' children. I pay as I go now and with health insurance premiums that don't cover most health insurance needs. Sorry, pay for it yourself and if you can't afford it, then suffer and endure. Hard times.
So Artie, what DO you want to pay taxes for...? War, I suppose..? I wonder if you will be singing the same tune (committing suicide is stupid and driven by ridicule and family) if you lost one of your own to suicide. Lots of families never see it coming.
Yeah, and think how much better off the rest of us would be if these people would just have the common decency to die!
wow, Artie...how fortunate that you and yours are so healthy and free of any problems...tends to make me think that, if you ever DID have anyone in the family who had a mental issue, you would just ignore it..."not my kid."
Thank you for your concern, and thank you for making sure that people who are sick can count on being looked down on by people like you.
Let's see what you say after your kid comes after you with a knife, repeatedly, and tries to break down the door where you are hiding. Still able to handle it yourself? Give them too much, they're evil because you spoiled them. Say no or do any form of discipline, and get turned into social services as an abusive parent. Tell me, what are we supposed to do without community resources? The murder rate will go up as more and more people hear voices and follow the instructions.
Artie: You clearly have NEVER HAD TO ACTUALLY DEAL WITH MENTAL HEALTH issues before. Your statement is beyond ridiculous! What an absolute idiot! I've been in mental health units of the best hospitals and even they can't handle some the cases they're presented with. So YOU could?!
You're so full of @!$%# your eyes are brown!
TANSTAAFL !