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James Crisp / AP Images for The Center for Public Integrity
Ray Marcum, left, and Thomas Marcum share fishing stories at Jenny Wiley State Park near Prestonsburg, Ky.
PRESTONSBURG, Ky. — Ray Marcum bears the marks of a bygone era of coal mining. At 83, his voice is raspy, his eastern Kentucky accent thick and his forearms leathery. A black pouch of Stoker’s 24C chewing tobacco pokes out of the back pocket of his jeans. “I started chewing in the mines to keep the coal dust out of my mouth,” he says.
Plenty of that dust still found its way to his lungs. For the past 30 years, he’s gotten a monthly check to compensate him for the disease that steals his breath — the old bane of miners known as black lung.
In mid-century, when Marcum worked, dust filled the mines largely uncontrolled. Almost half of miners who worked at least 25 years contracted the disease. Amid strikes throughout the West Virginia coalfields, Congress made a promise in 1969: Mining companies would have to keep dust levels down, and black lung would be virtually eradicated.
Marcum doesn’t have to look far to see that hasn’t happened. There’s his middle son, Donald, who skipped his senior year of high school to enter the mines here near the West Virginia border. At 51, he’s had eight pieces of his lungs removed, and he sometimes has trouble making it through a prayer when he’s filling in as a preacher at Solid Rock Baptist Church.
There’s James, the youngest, who passed on college to enter the mines. At 50, his ability to breathe is rapidly declining, and his doctor has already discussed hooking him up to an oxygen tank part-time.
Both began working in the late 1970s — years after dust rules took effect — and both began having symptoms in their 30s. Donald now has the most severe, fastest-progressing form of the disease, known as complicated coal workers’ pneumoconiosis. James and the oldest Marcum son, Thomas, 59, have a simpler form, but James has reached the worst stage and is deteriorating.
James Crisp / AP Images for The Center for Public Integrity
Bottom row from left: Ray Marcum, Donald Marcum. Top row from left: Thomas Marcum and James Marcum pose for a photograph at Jenny Wiley State Park near Prestonsburg, Ky. Each has black lung, despite a 1969 law designed to eradicate the disease.
Men with lungs like the Marcums’ are not supposed to exist. In the hard-won 1969 law, Congress demanded that dust be controlled and new cases of disease be prevented. The idea was that, even if black lung didn’t disappear, there would be a small number of mild cases and virtually no one like Donald and James Marcum, said Dr. Donald Rasmussen, a pioneer in recognizing and diagnosing black lung.
“In 1969, I publicly proclaimed that the disease would go away before we learned more about it,” Rasmussen, now 84 and still diagnosing miners, said in a recent interview at his office in Beckley, W.Va. “I was dead wrong.”
Throughout the coalfields of Appalachia, in small community clinics and in government labs, it has become clear: Black lung is back.
'Should not be occurring'
The disease's resurgence represents a failure to deliver on a 40-year-old pledge to miners in which few are blameless, an investigation by the Center for Public Integrity and NPR has found. The system for monitoring dust levels is tailor-made for cheating, and mining companies haven’t been shy about doing so. Meanwhile, regulators often have neglected to enforce even these porous rules. Again and again, attempts at reform have failed.
A Center analysis of databases maintained by the federal Mine Safety and Health Administration found that miners have been breathing too much dust for years, but MSHA has issued relatively few violations and routinely allowed companies extra time to fix problems.
MSHA chief Joe Main issued a statement in response to the findings: “The current rules have been in effect for decades, do not adequately protect miners from disease and are in need of reform. That is why MSHA has proposed several changes to overhaul the current standards and reduce miners' exposure to unhealthy dust.” Similar attempts at reform have died twice before.
From 1968 through 2007, black lung caused or contributed to roughly 75,000 deaths in the United States, according to government data. In the decades following passage of the 1969 law, rates of the disease dropped significantly. Then, in the late 1990s, this trend reversed.
Many of the newer cases have taken a particularly ugly form. While rates of black lung overall have increased, incidence of the most severe, fast-progressing type has jumped significantly. These cases, moreover, are occurring in younger and younger miners. Of particular concern are “hot spots” identified in central Appalachia by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, NIOSH, a government research agency. Though levels of disease are still below what they were before 1970, medical experts and miners’ advocates are alarmed.
“I think any reasonable epidemiologist would have to consider this an epidemic,” said Scott Laney, a NIOSH epidemiologist. “All cases of (black lung) are preventable in this day and age, but these cases of (the most severe form) are just astounding … This is a rare disease that should not be occurring.”
The National Mining Association, the main trade group representing mining companies, disputes some of NIOSH’s data but agrees that black lung’s resurgence is a problem in need of attention. To the association, however, it is primarily a regional phenomenon of central Appalachia — one that doesn’t justify new national rules. What’s needed, the group says, is further study and better enforcement of current standards.
Researchers are struggling to explain what, after years of progress, has caused the backsliding and why black lung, traditionally viewed as an old man’s disease, is striking younger miners and robbing them of their breath faster and faster. They are trying to figure out why men like the Marcums are the new face of black lung.
'A diabolical torture'
"They call me Lucky," retired miner James Foster says as he takes off his shirt and presses his chest against an X-ray machine in the back of an RV in Wharton, W.Va. "Worked 37 years in all kinds of mines. Been covered up twice. Been electrocuted."
His brushes with death aside, he’s here because he fears there may be one hazard he can’t dodge. “I come in here to file for my black lung,” he says. During a recent heart surgery, he says, doctors said they saw what appeared to be signs of the disease.
He’s one of a handful of miners on an April afternoon to move through the RV parked at the fire department in Wharton, in the heart of coal country. Inside, a team of NIOSH workers shepherds them from station to station: medical history, questionnaire, breathing test, chest X-ray. Foster hopes the tests will provide evidence he can use to submit a claim for benefits. Other miners are still working and want to make sure their lungs are clear.
It is from this rolling medical unit, in part, that NIOSH has documented the return of black lung. For decades, miners have been entitled to free X-rays every five years, and this has helped track the drop in the disease’s prevalence. After the data started showing a reversal, NIOSH sent its RV out to gather more data in 2005.
What these researchers found, combined with data from routine medical monitoring, was worrisome: From the 1970s through the 1990s, the proportion of miners with signs of black lung among those who submitted X-rays dropped from 6.5 percent to 2.1 percent. During the most recent decade, however, it jumped to 3.2 percent.
Even more disturbing: Prevalence of the most severe form of the disease tripled between the 1980s and the 2000s and has almost reached the levels of the 1970s.
In a triangle of Appalachia — southern West Virginia, eastern Kentucky and western Virginia — the numbers were even higher. The rolling unit found a disease prevalence of 9 percent in Kentucky from 2005 to 2009, for example.
A wake-up call for some came after the Upper Big Branch explosion in southern West Virginia in April 2010, which killed 29 miners. Of the 24 who had enough lung tissue for an autopsy, 17 had signs of black lung. Some had fewer than 10 years of experience in mines; they ranged in age from 25 to 61.
The disease leaves miners’ lungs scarred, shriveled and black. They struggle to do routine tasks and are eventually forced to choose between eating and breathing.
“No human being should have to go through the misery that dying of [black lung] entails,” said Dr. Edward Petsonk, who treats patients with black lung and works with NIOSH. “It is like a screw being slowly tightened across your throat. Day and night towards the end, the miner struggles to get enough oxygen. It is really almost a diabolical torture.”
Underpinnings of an epidemic
There are theories about why the disease has returned, but no definitive answers. One likely explanation: Miners are breathing a more potent mix of dust. Coal seams are surrounded by rock, much of which contains the mineral silica. When ground up, silica is more toxic to the lungs than coal dust and can cause faster-progressing disease.
With larger coal seams becoming mined out, companies are turning to thinner seams surrounded by more rock. At the same time, because of the price of coal and advances in mining equipment, it now makes more sense economically for companies to cut through large amounts of rock to get at the coal. Companies haul it all out and then separate the rock from the coal at processing plants.
“In central Appalachia, you look at what’s coming out of the mines, and it’s probably 60 percent rock on a good day,” said Rick Honaker, a University of Kentucky professor who consults for mining companies and has seen their data.
NIOSH research suggests this may be having an effect. A particular marker on a chest X-ray is often indicative of silica-related disease. Comparing miners’ X-rays taken from 2000 to 2008 with those taken during the 1980s, researchers found that the proportion bearing these markers had nearly quadrupled and, in central Appalachia, had increased almost eight times over.
Rules are supposed to limit the amount of silica in the air in mines, but a Center analysis of MSHA’s dust sampling database, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, shows that the agency has long failed to control silica dust.
In each of the past 25 years, the average of all silica samples — taking into account only those deemed valid by MSHA — has been higher than the allowed limit. Last year, for example, roughly 40 percent of the valid samples were above this limit. What’s more, the limit MSHA enforces is already twice the level NIOSH determined to be safe in 1974.
The National Mining Association contends that what appears to be a nationwide increase in black lung is actually a spike in silica-related disease in Appalachia. “The problem here is, look, these people were overexposed to horrendous levels of silica, for God’s sake,” said Bob Glenn, an expert hired by the association. “Why hasn’t something been done?”
To the association, this means there is no need for a new rule on coal dust, just better enforcement of the silica standard.
Another possible explanation for the uptick in disease: The number of hours worked by miners has steadily increased over the past three decades, MSHA data show. Ten- and 12-hour shifts and six- or seven-day workweeks are now common.
“I have stayed (in a mine) sometimes two days and never come out,” said Donald Marcum. Sometimes, he said, “you’d just lay down beside the power box, sleep an hour or two and stay right there.”
Longer hours mean more exposure to dust and less recovery time. The lungs can clear some dust by themselves if given the chance, and many miners said in interviews that they often spit up a mixture of mucus and dust.
At the same time, production has increased, thanks in part to powerful new equipment. A longwall shearer, for example, can carve out huge swaths of coal in little time.
Mark McCowan ran one of these behemoths for the final years of his career. “By the time I was 40 years old, I had mined more coal than most miners mine in a lifetime,” he recalled, sitting in his living room in Pounding Mill, Va. “You would get in some areas of the coal face where, when you mine, you can’t see the hand in front of your face. … I would eat so much dust I would throw up.”
McCowan was diagnosed with black lung at age 40. His disease has progressed to the most severe form; now 47, he finds it harder and harder to breathe. He pointed to a photo of a beaming, blond-haired 2-year-old on his wall — his grandson, Haiden. McCowan sees him two or three times a week and plays with him for as long as his lungs can take. “My biggest fear,” he said, “is I won’t live long enough for him to remember me.”
Decades of cheating
Donald Marcum knew he was at least a passive participant in something that was against the rules, maybe even criminal. Every couple of months, his bosses had to send MSHA five samples showing they were keeping dust levels under control. The man with the greatest potential exposure — often Donald because he was running a continuous mining machine, which chews through coal and rock and generates clouds of dust — was supposed to wear a pump to collect dust for eight hours.
That almost never happened. Most of the time, he said, the mine foreman or someone else would take the pump and hang it in the cleaner air near the mine’s entrance.
When MSHA inspectors showed up to take their own samples, it wasn’t so easy to cheat. Donald would actually wear the pump, but he and his co-workers would mine only about half as much coal as they normally did, generating far less dust.
“We just done what we was told because we needed to feed our families and really didn’t look at what it might be doing to our health,” he said.
Donald’s experience echoed what Center and NPR reporters heard from retired miners throughout West Virginia, Kentucky and Virginia who had worked underground as recently as 2008. Dust pumps ended up in lunchboxes or mine offices. Mine officials stalled regulators who had shown up for a surprise inspection and radioed to the men underground, who fixed the ventilation and cleaned up the work site.
It’s difficult to tell how widespread such practices are, but many former miners described some variation of cheating occurring regularly at almost every mine where they had worked — and a culture of fear fostered by the companies. “We always set and thought, you know, maybe if we didn’t do it this way, that they’d come in and shut the mines down. Then we'd be out of work,” said David Neil, a 52-year-old West Virginia miner with black lung who now drives a coal-hauling truck.
Tim Bailey, a lawyer in Charleston, W.Va., zeroes in on this type of cheating when he sues a coal company on behalf of a miner with black lung. In general, the only option for miners who get the disease is to file a claim with the state or the U.S. Department of Labor to try to get benefits. But Bailey takes a different tack, drawing on a state law that allows workers to sue their employer in cases of knowing exposure to dangerous conditions.
This often amounts to proving that the company manipulated its dust samples. In depositions, miners have described hanging dust pumps in cleaner air or getting advance warnings of inspections. Over the past eight years, he’s handled about 40 such cases. In each case, he said, the coal company eventually settled.
“These are criminal acts,” Bailey said. “What’s different about these black lung cases is that the cheating is such a part of everyday practices.”
Then there are the numbers themselves. For decades, the average sample submitted by a coal company has been far below the limit. NIOSH researchers used a formula to estimate the prevalence of black lung that would be expected based on the dust samples and compared this with the disease rates actually occurring.
What the researchers found was surprising: The two didn’t match up at all. In some areas of the country, there was actually less black lung than they’d predicted. But in central Appalachia, the disease rates were much higher — more than three times the predicted levels in eastern Kentucky, for example.
It was possible, researchers concluded, that the nature of the dust had become more potent. Another possibility: The dust samples reflected the results of rampant cheating.
Many of the games described by miners today remain unchanged from those outlined by miners who testified at a 1978 MSHA hearing. The early 1990s saw the “abnormal white center” scandal, in which MSHA figured out that many coal company officials had blown dust off the sampling filters, leaving a white center, before submitting them. A spate of criminal convictions of companies and some employees and contractors followed. This time period accounted for the bulk of the 185 guilty pleas or convictions for dust sampling fraud between 1980 and 2002, according to data provided by MSHA to the Center and NPR.
The agency said it had no records of criminal convictions or guilty pleas since 2002 and wouldn't say whether any criminal cases had been pursued. MSHA did provide data indicating that it had decertified 14 mine officials since 2009, pulling their authority to conduct dust samples.
“I don’t know if any (cheating) is going on today,” said Bruce Watzman, the National Mining Association’s senior vice president for regulatory affairs. “I hope not. We encourage our members to fulfill their obligations under the law.”
Cheating aside, the system for monitoring dust levels is almost designed not to detect problems. Nor has MSHA always been swift to act when violations do surface.
From 2000 to 2011, MSHA received more than 53,000 valid samples — both from companies and its own inspectors — that showed an underground miner had been exposed to more dust than was allowed, yet the agency issued just under 2,400 violations, a Center analysis of MSHA data showed.
This may be attributable, in part, to the way the rules are written. When companies submit five samples to MSHA, some are allowed to be above the limit. Only the average of these five has to be low enough, allowing companies to negate high samples taken from miners enshrouded in dust. What’s more, the pump runs for only eight hours, even if the miner works 10 or 12.
While an inspector is sampling, a company is allowed to mine as little as half the amount of coal it normally does. Companies that typically cared little about hanging curtains to keep air flowing through the mine or making sure water sprays used to suppress dust were working suddenly did when it came time to sample, several miners said.
Even when a company gets caught with samples that are too high, all it has to do to make the citation go away is take five of its own samples that indicate compliance. “The analogy I use is, if I pull you over for speeding, going 80 in a 50,” Bailey said, “and I tell you … here’s a journal, and I want you to record your speed on this same piece of road for the next five days. And, if at the end of those five days, your speed is below the speed limit, then I am going to tear your ticket up.”
Sometimes MSHA has allowed dust citations to go uncorrected for weeks or even months, potentially leaving miners overexposed, a Center analysis of agency data shows. MSHA sets a date by which a violation must be fixed, but, from 2000 to 2011, the agency granted extensions for 57 percent of the violations.
Long extensions have been particularly common in southern West Virginia, one of the key “hot spots” of disease resurgence identified by NIOSH. In this area, which accounted for about 30 percent of the nation’s dust sampling violations, MSHA gave companies an extension about two-thirds of the time and allowed, on average, about 58 extra days to prove compliance.
Asked about these numbers, the agency said in a statement, “The majority of these extensions … are for good reasons such as getting approved dust controls implemented or allowing the operator time to collect additional samples to submit to MSHA.”
Monitoring system 'severely compromised'
Even before the reappearance of black lung, the need for change was apparent. A proposed MSHA rule led to hearings in 1978, during which miners testified to widespread manipulation of dust samples. That proposal stalled and was withdrawn by the Reagan administration.
In 1995, NIOSH reviewed the scientific evidence and concluded that the limits for both coal dust and silica should be cut in half and periodic medical exams for miners should be enhanced. The same year, the secretary of labor appointed a committee to determine how to eliminate black lung.
The committee’s report offered a roadmap for reform. It recommended that MSHA consider lowering the coal mine dust standard. It suggested the agency reduce miners’ silica exposure and establish a separate limit for this more potent type of dust. Samples should be taken while the mine was producing at least 90 percent of what it normally did, the panel said, and samples should be adjusted to reflect longer work shifts.
Perhaps its strongest recommendation: “The committee believes that the credibility of the current system of mine operator sampling to monitor compliance with exposure limits has been severely compromised. … One of MSHA’s highest priorities should be to take full responsibility for all compliance sampling.”
In July 2000, MSHA proposed a rule that would have adopted some of these recommendations. Before the rule became final, though, George W. Bush took office, and the rule died.
“It’s really fairly remarkable that we came up with these recommendations back in 1996 during a Democratic administration, and nothing has happened,” said David Wegman, who was chairman of the committee and is now an emeritus professor at the University of Massachusetts Lowell’s School of Health and Environment.
History may be repeating itself. MSHA proposed a rule in 2010 that would cut the overall limit for dust in half and require companies to use continuous personal dust monitors, which would provide real-time measurements. The current pumps have to be sent to a lab, where analysis can take weeks.
Under the rule, the samples would be weighted to account for shifts longer than eight hours, and companies could be cited for a single sample over the limit — rather than an average of five — or a weekly accumulation of exposure above a certain limit. The rule would also expand the free X-ray monitoring program to include lung function tests and medical assessments.
Still, the rule leaves much of the sampling in the hands of the coal companies themselves. Asked why, Main said, “It’s an enormous task for the government to take on.”
Even the industry favors MSHA’s taking over all compliance sampling. “We need to get to a point where we remove this cloud of controversy and instill in the minds of everyone that the samples are accurate,” the National Mining Association’s Watzman said.
There isn’t much in the rule that the association supports, however. The real-time dust monitors — a centerpiece of the proposal — are still not accurate enough to be the basis of citations, Watzman argued. Dennis O’Dell, safety director for the United Mine Workers of America, said the few problems with the monitors are “little things that can be tweaked.” The union favors the proposed rule, though it would like to see portions of it changed.
All of this may be moot. A presidential election is approaching, and many fear a change in administrations could mean what it meant in the early 1980s and the early 2000s: the death of reform.
'I never said nothing'
In coal country, weakness is a sin. Mining is just about the only career choice, and one generation often follows another underground.
Convincing a miner to go to a clinic, get an X-ray or file a claim for benefits can be a challenge. “They're not going to come and complain about how they feel, just because that's part of our culture,” said Debbie Wills, sitting in the clinic in tiny Cedar Grove, W.Va., where she helps miners get evaluated and file for black lung benefits.
At the same time, fear is almost as deeply rooted. Many miners don’t want their employers to know they have signs of black lung — or even that they’ve been X-rayed. Anita Wolfe, who runs NIOSH’s surveillance program and is often out with the RV that screens miners, said she has seen men approaching on foot from miles away because they didn’t want anyone to see their cars parked nearby.
Thanks to a rule MSHA issued in 1980, a miner whose X-ray shows signs of black lung receives a letter that requires his employer to transfer him to a less dusty job and pay him the same as before. The miner alone sees the letter, and he can use it whenever he wants.
Only about 30 percent of the nearly 3,000 letters issued to miners since 1980 have been used, according to MSHA data provided to the Center and NPR.
Sometimes miners avoid screening because they just don’t want to know. A diagnosis of black lung would likely mean having to leave the mines — the best-paying job around and the only way they know to provide for their families. “It's very known throughout the coal community there's no cure for this,” Wills said. “They want to pretend like everything's OK until they just can't do it anymore.”
All of this has led NIOSH to believe that the resurgence of black lung may actually be worse than its numbers reveal. “We know that there is disease out there that we are not identifying because miners are avoiding participation based upon disease status,” NIOSH epidemiologist Laney said.
Take James Marcum: He spent his last semester of high school taking a class at the University of Kentucky because he already had enough credits to graduate. His father, having filed for black lung benefits a few years earlier, encouraged him to go to school and stay out of the mines.
Nonetheless, James took a summer job at a mine to earn money for college. “I started earning them $800-a-week paydays and said, ‘Why would I want to go to college when I’m earning this kind of money?’ ” he recalled, standing in the shadow of Dewey Dam at the family’s annual picnic at Jenny Wiley State Park in Prestonsburg, Ky.
He spent about 90 percent of his 20-year mining career, he estimated, operating a continuous miner. In 1991, the motor of the machine he was running caught fire, and smoke overcame him.
When doctors examined him and took X-rays, they found what appeared to be black lung. James kept the news to himself and didn’t file for benefits, afraid he’d lose his job if he did. “It was good money,” he said. “I had my kids to raise, and I just had to work. … I never said nothing. I just went on and done my job.”
About six years later, James found himself back in the hospital. He’d been caught between two pieces of the continuous miner and injured his back. Alone in that section of the mine when the accident happened, he finished his shift and went to the hospital the next morning.
Doctors again took X-rays, and, this time, his lungs were so bad he had to see a specialist. A biopsy confirmed that he had black lung.
Since then, breathing has become more and more difficult for him, especially during the past year. “I miss hunting bad,” he said. “I used to take my boys hunting. But I just ain’t able no more. … I ain’t got the air to do it.”
The youngest of the three Marcum brothers, he has shown the worst decline in lung function. At the family’s picnic, while Donald socialized and Thomas talked to their father, Ray, over plates of fried chicken, coleslaw and potato salad, James sat quietly.
He glanced at his oldest son, 26, who now works in a mine. Without realizing it, James paraphrased his father: “I tried to get him out. He won’t come out. He loves the job.”
Leave a Comment:
My suggestion:
Put the offices for all mining company executives right in the middle of the mines. Bet it wouldn't take long to get the coal dust under control.
Same old story the rich not caring about the worker and we read stories of serial killers and dangerous jobs, when will people wake up and realize who really has the dangerous jobs, these professions are real heroes mining and fishing, construction workers try googleing 10 most dangerous jobs, and these corporations are as bad as any serial killer that ever came along how come corporations are not held responsible for deaths with their pollution and unsafe work environments but again just goes to show they all put money before life.
In another 10-15 years all these troublesome dinosaurs will be dead and problem solved. Why no new cases? Fracking will do away with most coal uses by then...Fracking: home grown, cheaper, cleaner...soft coal is dead, just like the miners.
Don't give me the 'water' story, we have the EPA, don't cha no.
My father just recently passed away from black lung disease.... although his medical care was taken care of through the pension fund for black lung miners, there as no amount of monies or medicine that took away his suffering. to watch a vital, mentally sharp man wither away, struggling to breathe was something no one should go through. My father was a miner from the late forties to the fifties.. he suffered from black lung for 15 years, the last 3 being a rough daily struggle. I lost him this past march when his lungs had enough, and failed. The coal co. did not care then for their employees then,and they care less now. He walked away from the mines to move to Connecticut, from west Virginia for a better life, who knew then that everyday he went into the mines feed his family, that it was essentially taking away his life later....Any family, any miner that goes through this... will understand, and not understand the suffering involved... there is no cure, no medicine, no treatment. I watched him die daily in front of my eyes...he is at peace now, but, no one deserves to go out that way!!
Yes, the fracking technology is becoming very popular but the environmentalist have not focused their venomous lies on that as well. I wish I knew what these people really wanted! They live in a fantasy land where they think only solar and wind can save us from ourselves. it's been proven over and over that these technologies CANNOT provide sufficient supplies for our nation. Coal fired plants are being shutdown by our current EPA in places where that is the only source of electricity available. What will these people do? In other states, they supply 30-40% of the power. Wait until winter when the price of electricity starts to creep up because of this. I'm quite sure they will only blame the 'greedy' power companies and will not bother to research the real reason.
Congress was bribed, I mean lobbied, into passing an exemption for fracking from the Clean Water Act.
Any other question as to who is in charge and what is a priority? Its not citizens or workers health.
No reason why coal mining or fracking can't be done in a way that minimizes health and environmental risks. Breaking these rules and bribing lawmakers to change the rules is just greed. A few dollars more profit for putting peoples health at risk.
This is what happens when you keep electing republicans. Think of these miners when you turn on the lights and AC.
makes me wonder --- the miners themselves have an enabling role in this continuing problem. My father, 3 Uncles and a cousin all worked in deep mines and wouldn't have taken any other job even if the pay was the same. They "liked" being a Coal Miner. Mining Coal takes a lot of skill and knowledge and it is a job that not everyone is able to perform miles underground. They all lived into their late 70's-80's and had breathing related problems. Their biggest complaint was that the only way to get a disability for "Black Lung" was when the Feds. wanted an autopsy after you died. They all "fought" the Feds for Years and Years and the Company provided the documentation requested by the Feds. to verify the hours worked underground and the types of work performed. My Dad ran a "train" and at times a "conveyor belt" that took Coal from below ground and took the load to the top to be put into trucks. People made choices and continue to make their own choices, no one has ever been "forced" to work in the Mines but competition for those jobs is tough and not everyone qualifies. It really doesn't matter where you work, everyone is exposed to elements that can affect your health, above ground or below ground those elements are always their. The elements could be dust, fumes, chemicals, air pollution, etc. they're everywhere and can't be avoided.
Hey, it's REPUBLICAN territory and every one of those miners with black lung disease can thank every republican they voted into office for the pain and suffering they are getting. Those same republicans always blocked every attempt to change the rules to make it safer or proposed/voted for rules to relax safety. You know those pesky job killing regulations. The republican politicians don't care about the worker who is dying just so long as the company they are working for makes crap loads of money for their execs and stockholders.
You think this is bad - wait until we all have nuclear lung
Solar/Wind/Conservation/Recycle
It's scary to think that the same government in charge of the safety of those miners are also now in charge of our health care.
They failed the miners just like they will America.
trinit
Yes, and there is no problem with "CLEAN" coal either, right?
Sandy...twist this into your hopelessly polarized views. Al Gore grew up working on his father's tobacco farm and was still collecting checks from it years after his sister died from lung cancer.
'I've raised tobacco ... I've shredded it, spiked it,... and sold it.' - Al Gore defending tobacco farmers during a campaign speech in 1988. Of course he changed his tune on tobacco when it was politically correct.
Pull up some stats on how many people have died from tobacco related illnesses and black lung and let's compare them.
Shut-up People! Nobody is forceing anyone to go into any mines in the US.. We all have choices.. Thats why I dont work on a Crab Boat in the North Pacific and No its not the Governments job to tell you something that they already knew about, if you work in a Coal Mine your at High Risk of Black Lung disease uh like they have known for 200 years! thats the risk like it or not or get down the road!
Wow... And what picture perfect world do you in? "Noboby is forcing anyone to go into the mines in the US?" Umm... Yeah right.
Have you ever actually been to the Appalachian area? Mining coal is about the only employment available. These miners have good strong work ethics and would rather work their hands to the bone to support their families, rather than stand in line and collect a hand-out. It's been that way for years and years, nothing's going to change that. So, before you try to peg this as being "their fault", I suggest that you wake up and smell the coffee.
So, do us all a favor and get off your high horse, open your eyes and learn some things about the real world before you go spouting off the nonsense on how YOU perceive life should be.
Dame808, people who take dangerous jobs still need to be reasonably protected from the dangers. Firefighting is a dangerous job, too, but firefighters don't just run into burning buildings without helmets, proper clothing, and breathing apparatuses.
It's naive to say, "Well, they had a choice." In many of these communities, there is very little choice. If miners were dropping dead in the mines, then steps would be taken immediately--but if they are dying slow deaths decades later, it's easy to just shrug it off. If mining companies won't take steps to protect their workers, then someone has to step in. Self-regulation just has never worked very well.
And the right claims that corporate rapists are over regulated.
So....why did the son admit to passing on college to go work in the mines?
My grandfather died of black lung at 92. Forty-six years in the mines before they had the regulations we have today.
Romney ad here in Florida. "Deregulate businesses. You can trust them to do the right thing." Yeah right. For them maybe but not for you.
My dad worked 43 years in the mines and was turned down for black lung. The reason??? He was still alive. Truthfully though some people are affected differently than others just as some people get cancer from smoking and some don't.
Sandy..........agree with your comment but you missed an important point.........."and to donate generously to the Republican SuperPacs"
Joe B,
Problems and solutions are usually multi-tiered and often hard to pin down. Why people take dangerous jobs however is fairly easy. They make more money than they otherwise could and their futures look desolate without a decent job. Poor education systems, low college education rates, Central Appalachia with a college education rate of 8% as opposed to 25% nationally and a Christian fundamentalist stoicism and belief in the preordination of all things the willingness to be co-opted into an unhealthy life is easier to understand. Despite its beauty Appalachia in many ways Is like a small impoverished nation living inside a larger one. Healthcare is poor to nonexistent in many areas, obesity,diabetes, black lung, heart disease, alcoholism, tobacco related diseases, meth use and distribution, poor pre and post natal care all make any job with a living wage extremely attractive. On top of all the economic reasons the mining industry has been promising for years that the miner's safety was their number 1 concern. Meanwhile they fight government standards for workplace safety and controls tooth and nail spending 100s of millions to elect candidates who would like to end ALL regulations and let the likes of the aptly named Coke brothers decide safety and wages.
Until viable alternatives become available and elected officials place the welfare of the individual ahead of the profits of industry there will never be a shortage of young men who choose an early death over stocking shelves at the Piggly Wiggly.
jkh
First of all any person making it to the age of 80 is doing very well. I got cancer when I was 43. I did not smoke, drink, and no family history. There are millions like me that got cancer for no earthly reason that we can determine.
Rational American - your grandfather was going to die of something at 92.
This article is meant to reinforce the Obama agenda. MSNBC does the bidding for Obama every single day.
If you really care about the people and their health then start posting about the obesity issue that is an epidemic and the alcohol epidemic in this country that claims way many more lives than the coal industry.
I see college kids line up every single week at the bars from Thursday night through Sat night. They are painfully drunk, staggering all over the place, and many women are putting themselves in situations that will result in very bad events. I work near all the bars. I see it every week. We are setting these kids up for a lifetime of alcohol dependency that is costly to the nation and ruins a lot of lives. How many AA meetings in your town? In mine, it is unbelievable how many because it is a college town.
So instead of beating up the coal industry which is the intent of this article and the Obama administration, how about now allowing the alcohol industry to get their way and drive so many into economic ruin and physical decline.
BTW, a drunk driver killed my brother. My father, BIL, sister, cousins, in-laws were all drunks. I know first hand the damage alcohol has done and yet as a society we laugh about the kids getting drunk in college.
We are a nation of hypocrites allowing the media to get us all emotionally charged while ignoring the real problems in this country.
The problem with regulations here in the US is that there are too many of them that nobody is enforcing. So to make matters worse we just keep adding more and more layers with the enforcement issue the big problem.
So much for the republicans' silly notion that regulations and unions are no longer needed because employers always behave themselves.
Until the day comes when employers consistently take responsibility for their actions, unions and regulations will continue to be needed.
Sandy, Missouri
This is a serious discussion about a deadly disease, not a forum for you to spew the usual anti-Republican BS you love to put into anything. In many coal states there are Democrat Governors who could do something about this problem if they wanted to but don't. In fact coal country seems to be solidly Democrat as is most poor regions that at least in part depend on Government hand outs instead of real change.
Tell the truth for once.
Mining companies are evil, cold, uncaring entities. It's worse in Appalachia because our region is among the least educated in out nation. Politicians in WV tell voters there is a "war on coal" in order to gain their support. The supposed "war" is in the form of regulation. How dare they? You never hear of them holding rallies to combat black lung or announce scholarships for the children of black ling victims though. Big surprise.
Our crooked politicians are in the back pocket of these energy companies and will bend over backwards for them. All they have to do is tell a few slick lies and speak out against the black president and the ignorant rubes in WV buy it hook, line and sinker. Sadly, it's just like the South Park episode where they "took er jobs." Spout a few cheap buzz words and most WV will blindly follow.
The politicians constantly tell us how lucky we are to have coal and gas in our state and tout the benefits. For some strange reason, though, WV remains one of the poorest, fattest, least educated states in the union. Where is all this benefit from coal and gas?
Coal is dirty energy? Gee, say it ain't so! /sarcasm off
Exactly! Coal is clean now, SO SAYS THE COMMERCIAL!
And the guy down the street who is a Coal Mining executive.
And the other guy down the street who always likes to be told how to think.
Get rich and die young or get by and live a full life? These people are stupid enough to keep going back knowing it will kill them is just Darwin at work. They deserve to die simply because they are too stupid to take care of themselves. Then there's the greedy companies that don't want to comply with safety regulations. Unless the government moves in and fines the hell out of these companies they will not change. If there are no consequences things won't change. I work in the south, where PPE and safety are a joke, the only companies I ever worked for that gave a damn had been sued or fined out their ass at some point.
"Thank you" coal miners for a hundred years of dedication and hard work in keeping the flame burning,my thought are always with you.. God will rescue you in the next life.
Hey, let's let the free market figure it all out, y'all!
I mean, that's what we're told is the solution to all our problems by the GOP, right? Government and regulations! Look how good it worked in the 20s and 30s, man, what a time! Child labor and if one got their arm chopped off, you just threw them out the backdoor into an alley and grabbed another one through the fence from the group of begging children, awesome! Locking people in the factories so they couldnt take breaks, NO environmental laws, we could dump mercury down our sink pipes, yes sirree!
Oh don't get me started on the propaganda commercials. Only energy companies and their ilk have to run commercials specifically to convince people that they aren't evil. Sadly, people buy into them.
Randy, your ignorance is astounding. For generations some Americans have done the hard, dirty work that others would not, and people like you and me have reaped the benefits. Whether it be mining, farming, working in paper mills etc., our lifestyles have demanded that we have certain things, and these people have done it.
We want food, farmers grow it. Lights and energy for our second home, we get it. Gas for the big guzzler car..that too. Rather than be pompous about it, show a little gratitude, compassion and understanding. If we didn't demand the product, black lung would probably not exist.
So some of these comments say the miners deserve it for going down there. Twisted justification for moral abdication. Our society worships the almighty dollar (every class in it) and we are paying for it. The ends justify the means. Good luck with that ! The folly which is called man.
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Must be too much government regulation....
@Janet Anybody willing to sacrifice their life for a job is an idiot. Everyday above ground is a good day. I've done some of those back breaking and dangerous jobs you speak of. I don't do them anymore because I'm smart enough to know when to quit a job that might kill me. At lot of people have some stupid romantic idea about the reckless American worker from days long gone. Most of those people died horribly or way too young. Most of these people at least suspected that it was not good for them. It's not whimsical and romantic; it's foolish and suicidal. I grew up on a farm, I worked construction and logging out of high school. I enlisted in the Army. After I got an education and a skill set I swore I'd never work another dangerous job again or for a scumbag company or corporation that cared more about it's bottom line than it's workers. Took a couple years but I finally found one.
@theboys,
You understand sarcasm, right? That was a no@!$%#termoment!
Randy,
Way to post one of the most offensive, creepy, and heartless things I've read in a long time. These people are living in areas where mining IS the most lucrative and widely available employment. They are NOT stupid and they certainly DON'T deserve to die for the sake of trying to provide a decent life for themselves and their families.
This article is a prime example of what is meant by people who yell about government being too big, about government regulations hampering our ability to compete in a global economy...the "job creators" want less regulation, they want less oversight, and they are working hard to shut down or neuter agencies like the EPA. Who needs clean air, who needs clean water, who needs to protect workers from companies whose main focus is profitability in a "global economy"...
Remember, when you vote for people who support "less government" you are voting to leave people like these miners to twist in the wind and you are sanctioning the continued degradation of our environment in the name of money.
We need to compete in a global economy, there's no denying that, but we also need to make sure the countries we are competing against are playing by the same rules we are. If, for instance, China has no interest in protecting their workers or their environment, we should put tariffs on everything they produce and work to convince other nations to do the same, make it too painful for them to ignore the health of their workers and their environment...that is the responsible thing to do. Of course, that is also the hard thing to do, so lazy, greedy, dishonest people will simply work to kill legislation here that could save people from dying to make a living!
Corporations stand on the shoulders of governments around the world and scan the horizon for easy pickings, they go where the profits are greatest with no vision for the future well being of individuals or the planet...Government(s) should shrug them off and do one of the jobs they exist to do, REGULATE, and CONTROL, in the best interest of the people who live under their rule.
The last time I checked, "clean coal" pollutes the air with carbon dioxide, at half the rate of burning without scrubbing the exhaust. Mercury, and other dangerous particles are still at dangerous levels. Clean coal is the equivilant of cutting back smoking from two packs a day, to one pack a day. It's better, but it's still bad. Blacklung was one of the problems that got unions in coal mines in the first place. If there's a problem with unions inn coal mines, it's that they still haven't gotten the companies to protect workes health from workplace dangers. As for people still doing it, young men think they're invulnerable, and after a while, they figure that they already ruined themselves, but they still have families to feed.
Maybe he didn't feel he was college material. Maybe he couldn't afford it. Maybe he was trying to help support his family.
We keep hearing that "not everyone should go to college."
Hmmmmm, nice "unbiased" piece by another one of George Soros Open Society Institute supported groups. The Center for Public Integrity is another left-wing hack organization dedicated to promote the enviro-mental-maniacs. But I digress.
So, for over 40 years this has been a problem and now we get a 5 page exposé about the mining industry and its association with black-lung disease. 75,00 deaths over that time is a lot but it doesn't compare with 30,000 motor vehicle deaths or 20,000 murders a year over that same period.
Obviously no one wants to see these individuals get ill for any reason. But to think that no better safety measures could be developed over 40 years other than random testing is laughable. As the article states, “The current rules have been in effect for decades, do not adequately protect miners from disease and are in need of reform".
Decades!
In those same decades we have put a man on the moon, built a space station, put Rovers on Mars that ran 10 times longer than they were expected to and just about everyone on the planet has a cell phone. But we can't create a better monitoring system to analyze the coal, silica or any other cause of these lung diseases. The Rovers could scoop up a sample of Martian soil, analyze it and send the data back to earth in a matter of hours, so don't tell me you can't find a better way of detecting these pollutants in a mine in West Virginia.
This is another example of the collusion between a criminal government, State and Federal, and industry. You can write regulations until you're blue in the face, unless you enforce and penalize the offenders all it becomes is posturing. No law or regulation has ever stopped crime or truly allocated responsibility. We have regulations costing tens of billions of dollars and we still have Bernie Madoff's, Jon Corzines and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
This propaganda piece against the coal industry is just that. To believe no one could create better monitoring, reporting and enforcement over 40 years is ludicrous. We have home smoke detectors you can get at the hardware store for $19.99. Law enforcement can have you blow into a detector and determine if you are drunk in seconds. In the coal industry we have some antiquated "monitor" that you can move around to cleaner or dirtier areas at your whim. Please tell me the American people aren’t this dense.
The regulations are there, the enforcement, as usual, isn't. Technology for these problems is out there if its needed, it needs to be promoted. As the article states, levels of the disease are still below they were in 1970, which is good. If you have corruption in management and honesty in the regulators the problem can be fixed. If you have corruption in both we'll be having this same ridiculous discussion in 20 years.
Head Shaker,
It is a political issue and it is a Republican vs Democrat issue. During the Bush Administration fines were lowered by 43% and 10% less were issued. A total of $3,000,000 in fines were issued and less than half $1,400,000 were ever collected with no leans or subpoena's issued. Fines for violations resulting in deaths were as low as $440.00 making it cheaper to get fined than address the problem. Prosecutions and convictions fell 54% from 2001 through 2008. While most below ground regulation and enforcement is Federal not state while surface mining is often regulated at least in part by the states. In the last 10 years black lung caseloads have doubled and are being treated in far younger miners. Bush's Interior Department was the Department of Sex, Drugs, Bribes and Booze with the energy industries providing all of the above as well as jobs for high ranking officials as soon as they were caught and had to get out. J Steven Griles Deputy Secretary of the DOI was a coal mining lobbyist convicted of bribe taking and spent 10 months in prison. Seretary Gail Norton the worst since James Watt forced to resign and immediately joined Shell oil. Her lobbying group formed with Grover Norquist was paid $500,000 by Jack Abramoff with no work ever performed. Lynn Scarlett, Dept Secretary charged with implementing the "New Environmentalism" which is a roll back of regulations and fines and cooperation with big business. While government grew by 100% throughout the Bush years mine enforcement received a 20% cut in staff. Take a look at the work of Randall Luthi, Julie MacDonald, Italia Federici, Ellen Woolridge and Dick Kempthorne if you don't think politics matter.
Regulation, wages, safety, prosecution and implementation are always Federal political issues ask Christine Todd Whitman about the Bush Administration and the EPA which she was charged with heading and resigned after refusing to ignore clean air standards in a fight with Dick Cheyney. She was also thrown under the 9/11 bus when Bush personally assured her that all testing showewd that there was no danger from breathing the post 9/11 air for NYer's engaged in work on and around the WTC or from exposure on 9/11. This was a flat out lie. It is a partisan issue and viewing it as such is the only sane way to approach it. Deregulation of industry means just what it says and the recent Montana vs Citizen's United will make it almost impossible for political candidates in oil and mining states to be elected unless they are in the pocket's of the energy industry.
jkh
Jim SPence: And just what coal company is it that you work for? What a bunch of nonsense you spout.
YEAH!!!! industry would NEVER deliberately do harm against us! they're JOB CREATORS!!!
gasp, gulp, huff huff!
DRILL BABY DRILL!!!!!
well, i gotta go, the local fracking is causing geological tremors and my house is about to cave in! which is good anyhow cause the well is already poisoned with glycol...
I would guess that with a statement like that, you don't understand how technological progress actually works. Every nascent technology is less cumbersome and less efficient than that which it is trying to replace. No 1910 car could ever compete with the sleek efficiency of a 1910's carriage; the carriage was faster, cleaner, more comfortable. The phone system could never compete with the efficiency of the postal system, the postal system went everywhere whereas the phone system was unreliable, buggy and had very little coverage.
There is no way to ever prove even once that technology cannot do something. There is no way any scientist can ever prove that solar power cannot provide sufficient supply of power for the nation. Furthermore, a bunch of really smart minds are working hard to prove otherwise.
beleiveof,
BS!!! Live in oil and gas central. Over 450 rigs here right now. No tremors...! That is pure BS! I do however have concerns of the amounts water used and some potential for contamination.
We don't need coal or coal mines. This country sits on enough clean burning natural gas reserves to last many lifetimes.
These mine owners are the WORST SOCIALISTS, just like the REST of the GOP.
SOCIALIZE RISK. That is all they want. I have a better idea.
THE CORPORATE DEATH PENALTY. OK. You corporations have the right of free speech. I will give you another right. THE RIGHT TO DIE.
IF EVEN ONE DEATH can be tied to intentional disregard for regulations, THE CORPORATION SHOULD DIE. Sell off the assets to compensate the injured with any balance going into a fund to cover other corporate wrongdoing, ban the corporate officers from EVER holding a management position in an American corporations clawing back EVERY CENT they were EVER paid and the SHAREHOLDERS GET NOTHING.
No corporation would EVER disregard a regulation EVER again. Unlike regular criminals, corporations WOULD be deterred.
SRS -
You have a pretty strong absolute stance on the evil nature of corporations.
I have seen a fatality in a manufacturing plant. The victim was responsible for his own death. He ignored his training provided at great cost. He risked the lives of his co-workers by his actions. He ruined the lives of his surviving family members. It was a sickening and sad day. He failed to ensure the electrical power was turned off and locked out, which is his right to do and his requirement to do.
I have seen 4 other fatalities in another plant in another industry. Again, the victims ignored their training, did not perform required pre-tests, jumped into a confined space without the required breathing apparatus and suffocated because there was no oxygen present.
In neither case was a company man standing behind them with a gun forcing them to kill themselves.
Who knows why people do these things. Perhaps they think they are helping by taking short cuts. Complacency, assumptions, too familiar with situation, you name it.
As a company executive the only way I can keep the people who work in my plants from getting hurt is to put a padlock on the gate. We track medical incidence rate, severity rate, we train annually, we certify, we double check, we inspect, we authorize the people, we comply with every regulation, we have zero OSHA findings in any of our 32 plants, we are regulated by the federal government, but regrettably we have fatalities from time to time. We have injuries far too often - even one a year is too often. We address each one and make corrective actions. We had gone more than a year without a single injury until the worker electrocuted himself.
Perhaps you are good with that. Just padlock the gates and buy it all from China. Me, well not so much. I took a larger risk driving to work today than I will undergo working in a US Manufacturing plant for 30 years.
You need to understand the real world before you spout off your vitriol about evil corporations killing their workforce.
No corporation that I have ever worked for willfully disregarded any regulation. BTW - Corporations are people (SCOTUS says so) and therefore they are imperfect as a result.
Get a grip.
Jim Spence,
What the hell do non related fatality figures have a dam thing to do with the validity of the article. You may as well say that a lot of people die from drowning so why worry about black lung. Typical Rightwing obfuscation of serious issues affecting real people. Mining, Energy, lumber and Agribusiness have spent over $1,000,000,000 since 2001 to influence, bribe and suborn public officials to ignore or impeded the development of any and all industrial safety regulation. Look no further than the Bush DOI scandals or go back to James Watt under Reagan. Of course air quality monitoring is possible but industry views it as a slippery slope and just one more regulation. The Bush DOI reduced fines as to be meaningless and collected less than half of them. Does a coal mine pay a $440.00 fine and accept a dead employee on implement changes to make sure slurry doesn't freeze in pipes and become a deadly missile as required by law. Guess which route that the International Coal Group Takes following a 65 year old Kentucky miner is killed and almost decapitated. Do you think hi family has the money to sue a multi billion dollar corp also the group that brought you the Sago Mine disaster which had 208 violations in 2005 almost entirely ignored while pushing tort and award limitations through state legislatures.
Yeah it's those pesky regulations to blame and not the bloodsucking businesses who would send you into a mine with a canary it forced you to pat for if they thought they could get away with it.
jkh
Not to take away from miners, but every industrial site gets away with low/no production during a scheduled hygiene visit, begging why are they scheduled?
People born there see it as their traditional way of life. They know the risks but think it's somehow honorable to die in the mines. But when they do, it's not their fault and we shouldn't turn our backs on them and let the companies take advantage of them. Anyone born anywhere else knows better. If they were born anywhere else, so would they! That doesn't make them deserving of death.
hs321
Can you show us some medical studies of how someone gets lung issues while harvesting tobacco? Last time I checked, its when someone 'smokes' tobacco that it becomes the problem. When a miner goes into the mine, they are surrounded by 'what causes' black lung.
Typical of the right.... they do not connect the dots and the rest of us have to fill in the real blanks.
Simply because they are Democrats does not mean that they are good people. This entire article is about the lack of proper government oversight and how it has hurt people. It is a prime example of how people are only interested in what benefits them and don't care how much someone else suffers. I am sorry if you don't like it, but this philosophy is very much up for discussion, especially in today's political environment.
Today, Republicans tell us that all we need to do is to remove government oversight and people will be nice and do the right thing, fairly paying compensation, making sure that the employees never end up in risky situations and will take care of them if they fall sick due to their job.
We have already seen a case where an entire society failed because it was expected that people would do the right thing, care about their fellow citizens and in general, pull together. It was called Communism and we already know how well people can be relied on to do the right thing, all by themselves. Or do you think corporations are somehow going to be different this time around? Because, after all, corporations are people too, my friend.
We obviously need more deregulation so the "job creators" can receive an even greater income.
After all, "job creators" deserve to earn 800 times what their employees earn.
It'sAboutTime...reading comprehension a little low today? Sandy was saying that the evil, greedy, rich Republicans are responsible for all the pain and misery in the world for profit. I was pointing out that evil, greedy, rich Democrats do the same thing.
Nobody makes mining company owners force their workers to be in hazardous conditions. They do it by choice for profit. And nobody makes tobacco farmers grow something that will be turned into something that kills scores of people every year. They do it by choice for profit. And that's the choice the Democrat Gore's made. Neither party has an exclusive on that behavior.
Not Entirely Rational,
Are you proposing that corporations would never operate unsafely and that employees are the cause of all problems and that they should be resolved by locking the gates? Have you ever heard of Dioxin or PCB's? Illegal dumping occurs daily. Did you somehow miss the Bush and Reagan DOI scandals? Did you ever hear of Karen Silkwood or Erin Brockovich? Any cancer clusters around you? Did you know there are 1280 Superfund Sites? Maybe you missed the whole cigarette/cancer thing or that harmless asbestos use. Pesticides and growth hormone never hurt anyone maybe you could visit a chicken processor or a meat packing plant. Since 1980 the American workplace has become a far more dangerous place than it had been since WWII with less legal recourse or union protections. We are competing by lowering our standards not by demanding that others raise theirs.
Do coal mine operators provide comprehensive, affordable health insurance plans for their employees? Just curious...
Typical. Why is it that mining companies are so lethally corrupt? Maybe if these miners had the same mentality as steel workers this would be less of a problem. Maybe if there were a way to actually punish executive for lethally endangering their workforce this wouldn't be a problem. But that's just wishful thinking.
If there were a way to effectively fight for the rights of miners I would join in. Right now everyone is too corrupt. The mining companies are corrupt, the government that's supposed to regulate them is corrupt, and the workers themselves have developed a victim mentality, allowing themselves to be victimized and shunning people who dare to "show weakness".
After reading this article and knowing next to nothing about coal mining.. it seems to me that you have two huge problems here the first and biggest is oversight. With regulators not having the right tools for the jobs to properly inspect and carry out fines for those not following the rules. This could be because the industry has been successful in finding ways to dilute the rules on the books (a la Wall St).
The secoud is a lack of organization by the workers themselves. But you cant blame a guy who is willing to do everything to put food on the table. If he doesnt do what the boss is telling him, the boss will find someone else to do it and maybe to do it even cheaper. If these workers were part of a union where a union stewart was in the mines with the workers and seeing the shortcuts these mining companies are taking.. you bet your a$$ oversight by the regulators would be much more effective because employees would not be afraid of standing up for safety standards if they had the full weight of their fellow workers as well as paid legal professional help backing them up and forcing the company to take safety seriously or go out of business and let someone that values workers come in and finance the mining. Because one of the benefits of being in a union is that you often have free legal help for yourself as part of your benefits.
BTW.. 10-12hr work days without coming out for fresh air... sheeeesh!!!
So what are you advocating Jim Hayes? Shut it all down? You own a car - 30K plus die a year in the US - maybe we should ban that?
You want to ban dihydrous oxide (H2O)? That @!$%# kills hundreds of thousands a year and even falls from the sky!
We have 3.5 fatalities per 100,000 full time workers in the US. Maybe we should shut down all work!
You afraid of everything are you?
You are a one delta ten tango, sir.
In the real world we use the term "reason" as in within reasonable limits, reasonable attempts to do mitigate, but that is lost on you and the rest of the Libtards.
You must have missed the memo. Doctors believe that 99% of cancer is environmental. Let's give those "
pollutersjob creators" a big hand.You put your trust in big business and you'll find yourself dead.
theboys,
You are delerious! Coal workers pneumoconiosis is a serious disease. I am surprised more light has not been shed on this problem. Is it possibly you are just being the trained little republican who, despite receiving warnings about the deleterious effects of working in coal mines, would rather wag his tail for his master red party and turn a blind eye?
You are ridiculous! Accept fact as fact and keep moving.
You see. You've hit upon the fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives.
Conservatives imagine that anything that supplies their wants no matter how may people suffer is reasonable.
Liberals think people should be able to feed their families and live a contented life in their own right. That they should be able to indulge in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You remember those words right? They apply to everyone, not just your selfish wants.
You are very odious. You should be ashamed. Greed is a very ugly ugly trait in anyone. You are the poster child for the ugly selfish conservative.
And yes I have a job. And the taxes I pay would probably embarrass you. Like Warren Buffet I believe "To Those Whom Much is Given, Much is Expected." You might look that one up. Someone famous said it.
sandy,missouri, from post 1.7
maybe you didn't read the article. i didn't read anywhere in the article where it said the miners can thank the republicans they put in office. and i bet there are democrats that have been in office there as well.
The thing i did read and sticks in my mind is that the miners knew there was a potential to get black lung, but most kept quite or refused to get early treatment because they thought it would get back to their employer. They made a choice to keep the only good paying job around to feed their families. unfortunately, they were born in a poor part of the country with few high paying jobs. my guess is a lot of them didn't have money to move or if they did move had no other job options. They were stuck with having to make a hard decision. I guess you were lucky you didn't have to make that choice.
Blaming it on republicans is retarded. just about as retarded as saying that all democrats just want to sit on their duffs and collect govt. checks. Next time perhaps you should think before you comment because your ignorance really shows.
sandy,missouri,
you would rather have the mines shut down, workers lose their jobs, their family starve, electricity prices sky rocket, etc... your solution to the problem actually makes the problem worse. it's not as simple as saying we are going to big time fine these companies and they'll learn.
do i agree with these coal companies? No! i think they should be hit... and i think the regulations should change because of this evidence but it's a balancing act as to not destroy both the company and the entire population that surrounds it.
Perhaps if you were in a decision making position, you would have to think a little harder than you currently are, otherwise things would just get worse.
Perhaps you guys thinks this is partisan, but it is not. Business should not be politics. Business is like religion. They need their own following and their control to ensure their survivial. So how well do you think religion or business industries regulate themselves?
It is an oxymoron! Their goal is to survive. The only way to survive is through profit or $. Regulations hinders profiteering (in respect tohealth and safety regulations)...
1) allow industries to regulate themselves
2) allow lobbysts to write regulations
3) non-punishment
4) remove worker organization
5) instill fear tactics (replacements, job loss, social isolation...)
6) employee industry execs in key regulatory departments
7) remove funding for testing / oversight / regulatory deparments
8) push appeals toward corporate friendly courts
9) continue feeding politicians who appoints oversight / regulatory committees members
So how is this a surprise? It is simply a matter of when someone actually will have the guts to report and to write about it.
@aurunner61, Do you seriously think the investors of these mining companies will allow the mines to be shut down? This is their cash cow. In an energy starved country like us, the cost of production will simply be passed on.
Here is the problem other than the obvious regulatory measures. It is about who is accountable? These sick workers will most likely be unable to work (unemployeed), forced into low paying jobs, worsen physical complication, family income become a problem.... These are now a social problem that the our government must address as these unemployeed, sick, elderly, desitute families, hungery kids, uneducated families. Which will most become the receipients of our TAX DOLLARS.
SO why doesn't the problems get address from the start? It is not like we don't know how to reduce the problem! In this case it is about private businesses trying to shed costs to tax payers, AND they are doing it because we let them buy our politicians and our justice system.
@ mj29035102957:
Kennedy ripping off the Bible?
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" - Karl Marx.
How about these:
1) I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.
2) Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread.
3) The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
4) Most bad government has grown out of too much government.
5) Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?
6) The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.
7) The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.
8) Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.
9) I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
10) When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
I can quote people all day, who gives a @!$%#.
So I speak of 'within reason' and you snark at it. That implies you are an absolutist. That means you want 100% certainty before you do anything. Bunk!
That means you need to stop eating because there is no certainty that you won't choke to death.
That means you need to stop driving because there is no certainty that you will arrive safely.
That means you need to stop showering because you could slip and fall and hit your head on your wife's douchebag.
The only absolutes are:
other than that you can huddle in your padded bunker and cry in fear.
----------------------------------
To the viner who posted that all cancer is caused by environment. Really! Well random mutation in cells happens every second of every day and have led us to the myriad of evolutionary branches we observe today. Most don't work out very well. You call them cancer and extinction on a larger scale. I will state it another way to make it simpler. Life causes death. Life requires and environment. Death will occur in an environment.
The only way you can prevent death is to not be born. Hey! There is a good Liberal idea! Abortion saves babies from dying later in life!
Now maybe Warren Buffet will actually pay his back taxes, mj3981709357.
By the way, mj9857129375, you violated the Code of Honor.
You cannot say, "You are very odious. You should be ashamed. Greed is a very ugly ugly trait in anyone. You are the poster child for the ugly selfish conservative."
Shame on you. But I expect this kind of behavior from Liberals who have jobs and profess to pay their fair share and feel they are self righteous enough to judge others they happen to disagree with. Shameful indeed. The poster child for self righteousness.
That lesson is free.
Rational AmeriCAN, did your mother teach you that two wrongs made a right?
I do not think this is a debate about political ideologies. This is about hard working people that are being used.
If you havent mined coal you really do not have a right to judge the people that have.
Why dont coal miners wear dust masks, respirators? In alot of mines the temperature in the coal face is over 100 degrees. It is hard to use a mask when it's that hot.
It is all about the almighty dollar and job security to cheat on your dust saple tests. I have seen and done these things to avoid fines and keep the mine rolling.
I was told by a old coal miner, "It will boggle your mind to see what a company will do to get a pound of coal out of this mountain".
Believe me when I say it did.
Proud men sacrificing themselves for their families, and fearing reprisal from companies that just don't care about them any more than a piece of equipment. When will they learn that being able to live long enough to enjoy and teach their grand children is more important than protecting a company and way of life that will kill your children once they are done with you.
Dead bodies are the part of the price of high profits!
Like the dead miners in the Massey mine explosion, and the rig workers on deepwater horizon, industry has no interest in following safety rules. These people are exactly why unions are needed in this country.
Slaves were good for the profit margin. Plenty of industries would go back to them if they legally could.
police and fireman claim they have a dangerous job but they never know what hard work is and will never get these problems and they will get their early retirement and their pensions at our expense,and health care and their unions make sure of that
Jock,
Did your mama teach you pee sitting down?
Ever been in a coal mine? I have. I am from West Virginia. My grandfather was a miner, my dad was a miner, countless uncles, cousins and friends were or are coal miners. I know mine inspectors very well. One of my uncles is a mine inspector. The industry is dangerous.
I have also worked 24 years in multiple industries. I have seen too many fatalities. Industry can be dangerous, too.
As soon as worker safety is taken for granted by management or the workers, we have a problem.
You read some of the points on this vine. About the Massey explosion. You blame management. I blame the workers, you know why? They had the right to not go into the mine and work in conditions they have been trained to recognize and report. They can report the issues they find to MiOSHA or their union steward if they are represented. They can also walk away. Now management absolutely has blame if notified and they do nothing. Now how many industries do that? You'd cite two examples and say all are bad. The truth is 99+% are fully in compliance and most exceed the requirements of the law. The fatalities and major injuries I have seen were the fault of the employee who willfully disregarded the safety regulations I authorized them to use, trained them to use, retrained them to use and disciplined them for not using previously.
It gets hot in coal mines so a respirator is uncomfortable to wear. Oh well maybe that is why you are paid so much? You know what else, it gets hot in nuclear power plants, respirators are required there too, do you advocate not wearing those respirators? Electricians are required to wear arc flash resistant clothing and it is very hot, do you advocate not wearing that personal protective equipment too?
Work is actually called work for a reason. Difficult or skilled work is compensated accordingly. Nuclear, coal mining, oil drilling, electrician, welders, etc. are all regulated by government and all have safety protocols that can be followed to protect the worker. Management is required to follow them and are subject to major fines and jail time if they violate them willfully. As a plant manager I was criminally responsible for everything that happened in the plant for EPA, for OSHA compliance, and any other compliance requirement. The corporations I worked for prided themselves on exceeding ever minimum standard. In fact the second highest reason for me firing an employee (behind theft) was willful disregard to our safety requirements by the worker. The union did not fight me on that not even once.
So you bleeding hearts who pity the coal miner or the oil rig worker or the nuclear worker, the electrician, etc. - stop it. They are proud workers who earn their way. They are responsible for their own safety and they are responsible for letting management know about problems. If management lets them down they face the penalties.
If we have it your way we would protect every one of them. But from whom? And by what method? Shutting down industry?
Do you know how many fatalities occur in people who drive for a living? Transportation is the leading sector for fatalities. Always is. Do you advocate ending driving as a vocation?
You bleeding hearts don't know what you are asking for and you have no idea what herculean effort is already in place to prevent workplace injuries and fatalities.
Have a great and safe work day.
And so did you:
There's a free lesson for you.
Reported.
Democrats are stupid.
See above.
Reported.
Do you pee sitting down scar tissue? Do you? It's just a question. What does it imply to you?
What is a one delta ten tango, scar tissue?
Libtard = TeaBagger, cancellation.
very self righteous... intersting
Darn right, if people can aim then sit your ass down! There is no shame, especially if we have to clean up after your mess. Remember Utah is the biggest porn state. Does that make them freaks? No, it make self-righteous people hyprocrites.
Yet another example of where strong federal regulations AND enforcement are needed.
(The financial industry is another place -- see recent news stories on LIBOR, for example.)
Hey don't worry. No need for the E P A here. Companies can and will regulate themselves. Down with the E P A and any oversite from the big bad government....right repubs?
The funny thing is that most of the men working in these mines are die hard, Rush Limbaugh listening, Obama-hating, lifelong Republicans who vote in the very politicians that are ultimately killing them.
Typical liberal article - blame the job creators! Let the market solve "the problem" - if the miners all die then the mines go out of business. You don't need the government telling companies how to run their business, right? Of course right!
Years ago new mining safety laws were put into affect to stop this. However, industry lobbyist were able to get all kinds of loopholes written into the laws. The politicians, both Democrat and Republican, who voted for these laws, were able to convince the public they were helping people and still got campaign donations from big business.
In the old days during a revolution, people like this were often dragged out into the streets and killed.
Just another shining example of how there simply is no such thing as 'Clean Coal'. What a national joke and tragedy, all at once! Take a deep breath, Gumpy...
Gumps, it's republican territory with a high religious bent. So they are producing babies faster than big coal and the republican politicians can kill them off. Why should they worry? They have a never ending supply of human cattle to shove down into the mines. Just read the article. Four members of one family and some dropped out of school just to enter the mines.
You can bet that Gumps, and other pro-slavery activists, are prolife. They want to 'protect life' by restricting the rights of women, but tell us that protecting life for working people costs jobs. That's really a pro-slavery view. Using people like property by killing them is really an argument for slavery. That's what the current GOP is...proslavery.
the EPA definitely needed but the current one is completely out of control!
Here is an example:
Hey Sandy, instead of spreading extreme partisan hatred on a forum, you could be actually be protesting the real culprits, which is a combination of a few things. Failure in a government agency to adequately perform the task it was given. The companies themselves. Miners for hiding their disease from their employers. Or you can take the blame off them by redirecting it onto Republicans, detracting from any sort of meaningful solution to the problem.
Here is the problem. The rules and regulations are not being followed, complicit in this is the Gov. agencies, probably tied closely to the mining industry. If the rules are not followed and not policed or enforced, more regulations are useless. For those blaming the Repubs., maybe you should start gripping about the Gov. agencies that are letting the people down. They are just as guilty as the mining companies. I know, dems hate to criticize the almighty gov., but the fault lies with them as well. Probably even more, because if you get away with something, you will keep doing it, If policed correctly and according to the laws and regulations, a tighter ship would be run. It's the Gov's. fault as well.
Trinitygal,
Your argument is the same propaganda spewed for the last five decades. If you grew up in the 60s or 70s near any industrial center you could smell the rivers from a mile away if the wind was right and smog and pollution warnings were part of the weather forecast. Everything from the dumping of hospital and human waste into the Atlantic ocean to the burial of PCP's were hailed as perfectly safe by industry as rivers burnt and cancer clusters grew. Rivers and groundwater are polluted by fertilizer runoff, algae blooms and dead zones dot the ocean, whole glaciers have melted in a decade and while the rest of the civilized world is trying to do something about it Pecksniffian individual complaints are raised to obfuscate the need for investigation and control of industrial practices and technologies such as Fracking and coal mining.
Thanks to Republicans who are ending regulations and increasing corporate control of government and the Radical Rightist Supreme Court decision that brings unlimited money into elections.
You fools who fight for corporate and the 1% tax cuts are bringing these things to life.
YEAH!!!! industry would NEVER deliberately do harm against us! they're JOB CREATORS!!!
gasp, gulp, huff huff!
DRILL BABY DRILL!!!!!
well, i gotta go, the local fracking is causing geological tremors and my house is about to cave in! which is good anyhow cause the well is already poisoned with glycol...
SOCIALISTSTS! The GOP and their corporate overlords are the WORST SOCIALISTS EVER!
Socialize risk, privatize profits. OBVIOUSLY we need a 99% tax on EVERY DIME over a million a year to make these guys pay for their SOCIALISM!
Thanks to your sister for the knob polishing job she did for my football team.
Reported. Troll. Ignored.
When I see all those fracking commercials soft selling the real dangers of this particular industry, I want to laugh right in their faces. They get some guy who knows no other kind of work than pumping benzene and 20 other chemicals into groundwater with the fracking process to look all sweet and innocent like he'd never for a single moment endanger anyone else's life...until you ask the people who have lived near these fracking sites the truth about what their lives were like...Arkansas, Ohio, PA...all states with serious chemical pollution from fracking. So the next liar that tries to tell me that fracking is soooo wonderful is going to be offered an nice glass of water pumped out of their fracking groundwater and they'd best drink the entire glassful or else!
obama_sucks banned, multiple of Disgusted-2685310, also banned. Don't register multiple accounts.
I grew up in the middle of Appalachian Kentucky and my father suffers from black lung due to the 30 years he worked in the mines. Despite the strikes in the 70s and the tough federal regulations, the coal companies have always found a way to lie and cheat their way around of this. They value money and profit far more than human life, and since they are the only industry in central Appalachia, they can do what they want and get away with it. If you quit your job, there is nowhere else to work that pays a living wage. If you blow the whistle and get black balled from working in the mines, you have no choice but to move away. The coal companies also have their hands deep in the pockets of the local governments, so nothing will change on that front either. I say shut them all down and let the chips fall where they may. If families have to move somewhere else to make a living, they would ultimately be better off for it.
The miners are literally canaries in the coal mine--the first casualties of "let industry regulate itself"
There's no such think as "clean coal". It's all marketing to cover up their dirty past.
Alternative Clean energy is what is needed. I wonder which Presidential candidate would move our country forward?
One hint "Corporations are people too"... "let industry regulate themselves"... "I'd end the EPA" ... " "I'll repeal the Obamacare on day one"...
Word of advise: Vote for your own best interest, not your party's
"Passed on college to enter the mines." There's your news story.
The coal companies are currently breaking regulations. You think making more regulations is the solution ? How about enforcing what you already have. A law or regulation is worthless if unenforced.
Say it with me:
CORPORATE DEATH PENALTY!
@Salvia58-3789575
The regulations are being enforced to the best of the ability of the federal inspectors. However, too many mines are good at hiding evidence of wrongdoing from the inspectors - like the article mentions, when the inspectors come, the workers topside radio underground in order to get everything ready. Some inspectors probably ignore the regulations and give favorable reviews - for a small fee. At other times, it costs less money to pay the fine than to simply obey the law - such as regulations aimed at controling small stream pollution. Just pollute it as much as you want and then pay the fine.
So, the real trick is to make the penalties for breaking the law so steep that it is NOT in the mine's best interests to ignore the law, even if they only get caaught one time out of five. Up the ante so high that no mine would be willing to risk it.
The disgusting thing is that Big Oil and Coal industries are long past their shelf lives. Just imagine what would have happened to energy by now if the Big Energy Big Daddies hadn't pumped billions into lobbyists like Abramoff to support a filthy, slimy, cancer causing, pollution mess we have now. Big Oil would be a thing of the past. Iraq and Afghanistan wars would never have happened. Taxpayers wouldn't be paying off Exxon's Valdez spill fine for them and a whole new world of clean, sustainable energy would now be so common we wouldn't even remember there was a Big Oil or Big Coal industry. But, let's always allow the gate keepers to stop progress even when human life benefits most from it.
@ewent: It's all about thermodynamics, sunshine.
James is 51. That means he was 18 & planning on college in 1979. He took a summer job in the mines to fund his education....which back then was about a tenth of today's tuition....& began bringing home $800/wk. That *summer job* earned him in the neighborhood of $7K, more than enough to fund the entire 4 yrs at the University of Kentucky right there.
The starting yearly salary in NY for a teacher w/ a 4-yr BSEd degree (& that's just the beginning, as teachers are also required to concurrently work on their MSEd while working FT teaching) was around $10K/yr. James was bringing home $3200/mo, which would translate to $38,400/yr, nearly 4x a starting tchr salary.
In 1979 that was considered seriously upper middle class wages (tchrs were definitely lower middle class & still are, as they still start at under $30K/yr). Even today that's lower middle class $.
18 yo's think they're immortal, know more than their parents do, & to earn that much $ w/o a college degree....don't tell me that wasn't a tremendous lure away from the hallowed halls of academia.
No college graduate started at that much $ in 1979. Minimum wage then was $3/hr & you could actually live on it b/c everything was so much cheaper then.
James was pulling in 9x min wage. No college degree was going to make him that kind of $ right off the bat; back then it would take 20 yrs to get to that pt.
To go from a HS kid probably working some PT min wage job trying to save for college to instantly making almost $40K/yr must've been dizzying for an 18 yo. That kind of opportunity just isn't available to a kid w/ no real work skills. Of course he chose to follow the $ rather than follow thru on college.
So, no, that's not *the news story*.
10 yrs b4 he started in the mines, supposedly they had been *cleaned up* & were going to be *safe* to work in. He didn't expect to be hacking up a lung & looking at an early grave 30 yrs down the road.
The *news story* here is that the kids who started in the mines back in the 70s were deceived into thinking black lung was a thing of the past & it wouldn't affect them.
@Scar_tissue
This is not too dissimilar from my parents' story. My father joined the Marines in 1972 and was stationed in Camp Lejune, NC. A year later, he met my mother, they got married, had a kid, and life was OK. Soon, my other sister came along and my dad decided to get out of the Marines when his tour was up, so in 1976 they loaded up the car and were on their way to Chicago to start a new life.
A funny thing happened on the way - they stopped in Harlan, KY to see the family, and while there my uncle started telling dad how much money he was making in the coal mines. The whole reason they were going to Chicago was to find a decent job to support the family. However, mom and dad could stay there in Kentucky close to the family and make all the money they would ever need. So, he got a job in the mines and for years made GOOD money. I came along a short while later, and the family moved into a bigger home. Even with three kids, the family did very well financially - we had two cars, took small vacations, had VERY good health insurance with NO DEDUCTABLE, and never really wanted for anything. We weren't rich, but we weren't poor either.
Back at that time, you didnt HAVE to have a college education to get a decent middle-class blue collar job. All you needed was a good work ethic and a strong back and you could make all the money you need.
Even now, you pretty much have to have a college degree for any corporate entry level job, but how does a couple of years of college English or Philosophy help you be a better accountant??? The college system in this country is currently a waste of time and money - you throw tens of thousands of dollars down a hole, go deep in debt, and get an education that MAY or MAY NOT land you the same entry level job you could have gotten without a college degree 30 years ago. Someone in the business of higher education is making a lot of money from this arrangement, but it doesnt mean it will make you any better or brighter as a person.
Oh, surely the National Mining Association would not lie to the miners about the hazards and conditions of the mines. *adjust sarcasm setting*
Surley the workers wouldn't put life in danger for the eigh-t hundred dollars per week pay checks. What ever happen to the Mining Unions? Oh thats right they get a cut of the weekly pay check. What the minding companies are doing is criminal however it sound as if the employees are helping with cover up.
The all mighty dollar beats both sides.
Very few miners are union members anymore. For example, Massey's Big Branch Mine that suffered the disaster with several deaths in 2009, was not a union mine. Many of the mining corporations busted the unions during the years following the Reagan years and the anti-union movement. In what way, DKJ-4, do you think the employees are helping with the cover up? Because they're afraid to report being sick because they're afraid they'll be fired? Sounds like an argument for the reinstatement of those "evil" labor unions.
PAT: Agreed. I've been making the very same point about Massey and Don Blankenships union busting activiities. Had that been a union mine those men would be alive today. But the Right has been awfully successful in demonizing unions.
and trashing the lives and wages of those who depend on them for survival.
The documentary Harlan County USA shows how miners in Harlan, KY went on strike and unionized, despite the violent resistance from the coal company and their armed thugs. Sadly enough, during Regan union busting crusade of the 1980s, all of the mines were shut down and then reopened as NON-union shops. Since then, wages and benefits have slowly slipped down almost what they were in the 70s.
YEAH!!!! industry would NEVER deliberately do harm against us! they're JOB CREATORS!!!
gasp, gulp, huff huff!
DRILL BABY DRILL!!!!!
well, i gotta go, the local fracking is causing geological tremors and my house is about to cave in! which is good anyhow cause the well is already poisoned with glycol...
Standard conservative bull@!$%#: blame the victim.
I'd be more worried about that benzene...It's not just a carcinogen...it once was the cause of a northern NY River igniting and burning....thanks to the reckless endangerment by lumbering and chemical companies back in the 1970's.
Why are states and the U.S. Dept of Labor--that is, we as taxpayers--paying out the benefits for this growing epidemic of black lung disease?!
The benefits sick miners are receiving should ALL be paid by the coal companies. After all, those companies are directly benefiting from skirting the regulations designed to protect miners.
We don't have progress, we are going backwards. Thanks, Washington! We know who you work for, and it is not us.
Sad story, but your lungs can take only so much krap going into them. Awful situation for these men, all the way around; but I feel even worse for their loved ones.
This in the "Greatest Nation on the Globe"? Who's kidding who.
Well the coal lobby in Congress is pretty strong, that is why it is so difficult to get government support for natural gas. Admittedly gas is not a perfect solution, but it is much cleaner than coal in many ways. Clean coal is a myth, and we need to convert to gas quickly.
About 50% of the electricy in this country comes from coal. So those electric cars environmentalists are so proud of are really powered by coal. Given the lead acid batteries in them, they really arent that much cleaner than gasoline powered cars.
If we could covert heavy vehicles like trucks and buses to nat gas, we could start making some real progress, both on oil payments to the Saudi's, and on making the environment more clean.
In many ways you are right but EV's do not use Lead acid batteries they use lithium ion batteries.
Actually about 33% of the US's electricity now comes from coal and it's falling fast. Regardless several studies have shown that electric vehicles powered by 100% coal is similar or then gasoline cars, it is much easier to regulate and mitigate the emissions form 1 power plant, compared with millions of individual tailpipes.. As Ycaint pointed out, no ne has used lead acid batteries in a commercially available mainstream EV for years and years.
Lithium batteries are 100% recyclable. Natural gas is a pig in a poke. The carbon emissions are just as high as coal due to losses in production and distribution. It is better related to Mercury emissions but that is probably counterbalanced by the fracking pollution.
Either way, CO2 is produced when burned. It may be better than coal, but only barely.
The answer is solar and storage. A typical house has PLENTY of area on the roof to provide ALL the power needs if adequate storage is provided. The cost of solar and storage has come down by 50% in the last three years. Even NOW, the payback is around fifteen years on components with at least a thirty year lifespan. It is ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE RIGHT NOW. The only thing holding it back is the GREED, GREED, GREED mentality. If we had put the money spent (that came out of RATE-PAYERS POCKETS) on COAL FIRED PLANTS in Wisconsin into SOLAR INSTALLATIONS, our utility bills would be lower and in fifteen years THEY WOULD GO TO ZERO.
Zero. No utility bill.
Guess WHO would be against THAT!
typical...big buisness and the crooked gov't in bed together...who cares about coal miners lives....just get hte job done so we the company can make big dollars and make bribes/campaign contributions...
Yet further proof of the foolishness of Bleeding heart Liberals with their intrusive "Big Government", "Nanny State" "Socialized" nonsense, regulating every aspect of our lives. I propose that we do away with OSHA, EPA and all those other "Job Killing" (as opposed to people killing) regulations that stand in the way of business being conducted. I have absolute confidence in Corporate America doing the right thing without this intrusion by government.
Ozzie Boy, seriously? Then why don't YOU go work in the coal mines? You are obviously one of those corporate shills or spoiled pretty boys who made your money off other people's misery.
I could say the same for your vision of Corporate America's Conservative wet dream, interfering in every aspect of a woman's reproductive life and looking for any excuse to deny equality to others while you piss and moan about "impediments" to being able to screw the American worker over even more. We saw how deregulation led to the market collapse of 2008. I've seen chemical plants and offshore platforms go up in flames while corporate shills whined about oppressive regulations. Do the right thing in the first place, and we wouldn't need all these rules, now would we.
You want to know what is killing America? It's GREED, pure and simple. I'm not talking about capitalism, I'm talking about this Ayn Rand brand of "me first screw YOU" capitalism that has been embraced by the right wing of the Republican Party, while they trumpet about Christian values and the free market. The free market doesn't mean "free to f--k anyone over and laugh at them as they cry" while they sit on their yachts and drink champagne to their ability to screw even more people over now.
LEMUR: Uh, I suggest you go back and read my post again, this time more carefully.
Ozzie Boy,
I'm assuming you're doing your best Rush imitation, but you need to either note "sarcasm on" or be ready for the comments attacking yours.
PAT: OK, I guess I wrongly assumed that my real point was there for all to see.
We can't be having more job killing regulations shoved down the throats of our corporations. They are our job creators. These poor dying souls are just needed sacrifices for the great creator. Suck it up and die in glory knowing that some suit in the city can hit the switch and his lights come on.
Just like corporations, if a worker dies, the job remains. Ready to KILL the next worker.
Ol' Platypusdude,
Wonder some dumbass reichwingers didn't take you seriously. LMAO
Or did they? LMAO again.
Nowhere in this article, unless I missed it, is there mention of a NIOSH approved dust mask! I understand that this is the only work for most of the men in this area, but for crying out loud, are they so dumb that they don't care to take a simple precaution to protect themselves?
I worked in a custom fiberglass insulation company during a break in my work life and the air was filled with glittering particles of glass, all the time. I wore a mask and goggles to protect myself and I was the only one who did! Are the other idiots I worked with going to sue everybody else when their lungs become incapacitated?
The mine owners are definately corrupt and skirt safety issues as often as they can to increase production and profits, but I can't understand the mentality of anyone who doesn't try to take care of his own health.
James Marcum, mentioned above, had the chance of a lifetime to escape the madness of mining. His father had black lung already. His father gave him good advice. He chose hell rather than escape and now he has black lung.
The responsibility for the mine owners is hugh but personal responsibility is nowhere mentioned in this article and it should be.
Workers do have a responsibility for their own safety. Numerous shows about coal mining show miners taking their masks off in the dust during breaks and to ease having conversations. However, it's not politically correct to blame the workers. Only the nanny government and business owners can be held responsible.
HS321: Really? Go tell that to Don Blankenship, now under crimimal investigation for the deaths of 29 miners in West Virginia 2 years ago.
hs321 -- Why do you think corporations exist in the first place? Their very existence is a means of avoiding/limiting all personal legal responsibility. Their sole purpose is to bear the brunt of responsibility, as it is the corporation's shareholders that have the most to gain from its activities, not the workers. This is an industry with no oversight, no whistleblower protection, no means for the individual worker to stand up for what is right. These are specifically the conditions that lead to the creation of unions.
I was thinking the same thing, I ran a tractor dealership for years. If I found a guy sanding without a mask or grinding without ear & eye it was simple "this is your one warning I catch you again your F...ing GONE!" No union BS and our avg employee had 17 years with the company so I guess the pay was allright.
Yep just like good old workman's comp insurance. "Protect me, from me, in spite of me".
@hs321
More than likely, the only reason the workers on the TV show you were watching even had masks was because they were on a TV show. Otherwise, it would be business as usual - no mask and barely any protective equipment unless the federal inspectors were doing a spot check.
Of course, providing the equipment is one thing. Getting the men to use it - that is something else. The same fool who wasn't wearing his mask underground was probably sneaking off to smoke a cigarette when no one was looking too. BOOM! 30 men dead because the dude couldn't control his nic-fit.
Thank you Georgie, that is exactly what I was thinking!! My Dad worked in the mines as a young man, so obviously I have nothing but respect for these guys, but the reason that he didn't work there his whole life, despite the good money, was because he was aware enough to know that with all the crap going on down there, there wasn't anyway he could keep it up for a long period of time and have decent quality of life. He also came from an economically depressed little village, so it's not like he left to go live high on the hog. Obviously you have to make sacrifices for family and for one's job, but what I think the article was trying to point out in some areas, was that there were chances for the cycle to be broken, what with the father being able to go to college, and the son sounding like he had other opportunities, and choosing this type of work. Of course regulations need to be tightened and the coal companies held responsible, but I think issues of common sense also shouldn't be overlooked.
Americans waging war against Americans again, still,in the name of money. Because people choose not to do the right thing on their own, the govt does havr to get involved to babysit ( wouldn't have to if people were ethical,moral, cared more about people more than money.....but they don't ) so agencies to protect Americans from Americans, such as the epa exist, all the anger and acting against the agencies, ( all the hate,,, because of money) is evil, pure and simple, evil. The people that have intentionally harmed and neglected employees will be judged for their deeds and lack of deeds, God help them. They won't have their money where they're going and will have judgement from God himself. Change your priorities Americans, for you children, grandchildren, employees , just average hard working Americans sakes...... lest you suffer the consequences in eternity, no redos , no do overs, think about how you run your businesses men and women of American, really, do you want all this harm to others on your souls, forever???!!! Change, love, care, share, pray for the "correct " way to live and operate businesses, then you can look yourself in the mirror, look at your children , grandchildren and know yes, you did the correct thing, not necessarily the "monetarily profitable thing" , what does it profit to gain all the money and stuff in the world, and lose your souls????? Better change while you have the chance. psalm 23 Quit blaming Washington, it's the business leaders ( leaders?) who are ruining the lives of Americans!!!!!
One time I lived in a part of the country where there was no hope. I moved somewhere else. Sure, it was hard to do mentally and emotionally at the time, but I have no regrets. Things got better for me as soon as I moved. I'm much better off, and I can still go back and visit whenever I want. Where I left it hasn't gotten any better, and there's no expectation that it's going to. If you can't change your environment, then you need to change yourself.
@ creative, yes, I agree. If one can't change one's environment, then one has to change something. I applaud your ability to get out of your situation for a better one.
Some people never will be able to no matter how much they want to, because there are too many people determined to "keep them in their place" or they lack any sort of fiscal wherewithal to enact change or they fall within that gap where they are "too rich" for public assistance but "too poor" to escape.
You see it all over the third world and coming to a neighborhood near you if it's not already there. A friend of mine got off a plane in Brazil for a business trip. The runway was essentially next to a favela, and she wondered in reality as to how many people there would ever be able to escape their circumstances when they barely had the wherewithal for bus fare. Some of those slums are so scary that the police won't even go there.
It usually takes money to get out of a bad situation and one is limited by their access to it. Today this is even more true. No longer in America does the old adage go..." if you persevere and work hard and are willing to do so, you will get ahead". The deck is too stacked against anyone who doesn't already hold enough cards to make a decent hand already.
lemur lady. That sounds like solid reasoning in theory. The problem in supporting your theory is that if you look at the population of the Johnstown, PA area, you find that it's gone from around 75,000 to around 25,000 over the past 40 years or so, and I know from growing up there that they definitely had all the usual nonsupport systems in place that teach you that if you even think of leaving a place that can't provide safe, or any, jobs for its population, you...Thing you're bettern' us...Aren't living in the real world...Have someone filling your head with dreams...and Are just gonna end up right back here.
But 2/3rds of the population left and has stayed gone. Same as they left the little ghost towns around Johnstown that closed down when individual mines gave out. Claghorn. Wehrum. And others.
They left the same as their parents left Europe. And that was a much longer trip. ; )
When there's money to be made doing something dangerous, someone will always arrange for others to do it. And it's just standard practice that convincing them might take some cajoling. Heck, I have a Johnstown Tribune-Democrat from 1988 with a half page ad that reads: When the going gets tough, the tough stay put. Bethlehem Steel. Funny, right? What was THAT ad meant to do...keep more people on unemployment a little longer before they eventually would have to set off to find the next setting that offered actual opportunities?
Now, I can understand why Bethlehem wouldn't want to admit that it wouldn't be needing its workforce. And I can understand why my Italian mom would love to have her kids homes in sight of hers, if there were ad agencies and consulting firms in rural PA. ; ) But I REALLY don't understand why outsiders look in from afar and deem any people unfit to just get their legs under them and go when it's time.
If 50,000 people were starving in Johnstown, and you were in there slinging halupkis trying to save them, I'd see your point. But when push came to shove, they just weren't as helpless as you might think.
As I read down this wall, I'm not surprised to find that the people who most want to explain how limited these people are, and who come down hardest on the people who say, "I grew up there and I got out" sound just like people I know well from Capitol Hill. It took me years of trying to understand them before I finally could see: These people somehow never learned that talking is not doing.
So now we have a running joke in our family about how we're going to meet to discuss considering analyzing getting together to plan our options for having a consortium to outline the possibilities of mowing the lawn. And wen we're done, we'll be perplexed about why the grass is not any shorter.
So, yes, they're "too poor and too rich." And yes they'll never be able to "escape their circumstances." Except that that they actually can and do eventually make arrangements, and pack, and set off. They stop thinking they can only ever belong in one place...or that they can't make friends elsewhere. And they especially stop waiting for well-intentioned, well-educated people to explain to them that others are off somehow discussing how to make it all OK. ; )
Because this much I do know: As limited and trapped as someone might tell them they are, they're pretty good at listening and thinking, "Ah...she's saying she really wants me here making her electricity." ; ) They've definitely got the have/have not thing down.
Oh no. that would be a "job killing" regulation.
Don't worry. The Koch brothers and all the other GOP "job creators" will take good care of you if you get sick.
Really, they promised it.
Where is your solar and wind power now democrat. If it worked, people would use it. We wouldn't have to dig in a mine for coal. Hey.. hows that renewable energy working out for you.
WillyORites - I call B.S. They clearly say there are regulations in place. The Gov. is just not enforcing them. So that leads Dems to call for more regs. I say implement and police the regs already in place. 100% enforcement and then things might be cleaned up. At least the picture would be clear then as to what other regulations may be needed. My guess none, if the ones in place were policed correctly by the Gov. agency. I fault the Gov. too.
USUCK: A rocket scientist you ain't. What you say about solar power today is the same thing said about the aut,o a century ago ("Get a horse") and electric power even earlier.
Evidently you are unaware that new technologies take time to perfect and require nurtering from the government as we did with the Interstate Highway System and many other Federal and State funded projects which allowed the growth of the auto and electric.
Lee..."The Gov. is just not enforcing them. So that leads Dems to call for more regs."
LOL!...Just like with illegal immigration. The solution is not to enforce existing laws, but make more laws (that won't be enforced).
Yes, just enforce the laws already in place. Good idea, why didn't anybody not as smart as you think of that?
One small problem. The same forces that keep good regulations from being implemented conspire to prevent enforcement. Did you not read the article, about how the companies do all kinds of sleazy things to prevent enforcement actions? And did you not read other articles about the lengths these companies do to challenge enforcement actions in courts?
From simple minds come simple solutions.
Listen to you idiots arguing politics...UGH...this is a real problem and always has been. Let me inform you that your statistics are CRAP, if the cases of black lung went down it's because dr's forgot to look for it (imagine that) and don't know what they are looking at. My dad had a recent accident, the local hospital says (on top of his other injuries) that he must have pneumonia and they sent him to St Louis...come to find out that pneumonia is black lung. There probably isn't all that decrease just a whole lot of dr's and agencies in denial!
Another argument for less government regulation, right ?
coal and nuclear plants generate electricity you need electricty to power the new green cars the government has promoted, just wait i guess it's not green if it uses coal, would be nice if the government was more interested in protecting coal workers than wasiting mony on sylyndra type flopps
This is yet another reason we need to go back to candles for light.
Coal, natural gas, oil all should be banned.
Just keep typing on your oil based computer powered by coal powered plants putz.
Nothing New - What a goof. Surely we have to get cleaner, but how do you think 6 Bil. people live on this planet? Put your plan in place and only 1 in 6 will survive. A little more ugly than some black lung disease.
Please think and spout a little more rationally.
Republicans will no doubt tout that at least these people had jobs to kill them thanks to their deregulation efforts.
Democrat queers will no doubt give these people a free ride in order to get their votes.
LOL - In Kentucky, the word "democrat" is considered a curse word. They wouldnt vote democrat even if Jesus were running! Ironicly, the do-nothings that live off welfare and food stamps are also die-hard Republicans.
You talk about government regulation. Where are the black lung cases among the leadership of the United Mine Workers of America. Is this an example of the effectiveness of unions? They take the miners money, but don't share in the pain. What is the name of the last UMWA leader killed in a mine cave in?
None of the mines in Southeast Kentucky are union shops. They havent been since the 80s.
Where's the surprise? When you had union leaders like Tony Boyle and coal company operators like Don Blankenship plus countless politicians in their pockets why would anyone expect the right thing to be done! Same old story....greed rules!
You can trust us, we'll self regulate. Please
Amazing, isn't it?
Rand Paul would say this is the natural order of things - we are thinning the heard. Mitt Romney would say that he will get back to it on this but he supports it in all of his policies. We have the technology to have prevented this dissastor but chose not to. Now we will move on to "fracking". We may be able to do this safely, but we won't as long as the Koch brothers and others can buy our government. They are immune to prosecution or constraints of any sort because they are "job creators". They are creating a third world nation and we are allowing it.
Everyone must have a care for everyone else! If you insist on using so much to live a lifestyle that resembles the"rich and famous" someone else will pay for some of it, either the workers here in the mine(think of that when you use so much electricity) or some poor worker in another country where the corporate greed-mongers went to use up that population and resources. Signing off now to go and do something that does not use electricity!
In the words of Forest Gump..."stupid is as stupid does". The fact that so many of you are against your own personal self interest is stunning. You should all huff coal dust in solidarity.
But ..... big corporations police THEMSELVES and regulation is BAD, right???