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Subscribe to RSSFrom a continuing series of articles, Who Can Vote: a News21 investigation of voting rights in America. Read the previous article, New database of US voter fraud finds no evidence that photo ID laws are needed.
By Jack Fitzpatrick and Khara Persad
News21
Despite widespread support for voter IDs, polling experts say the public is poorly informed about the controversial laws and their potential impact on the November presidential election.
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Discuss this series of stories on the Facebook page for Open Channel, the NBC News investigative blog. |
A new Washington Post poll found that 74 percent of respondents strongly agreed or somewhat agreed that voters should be required to show a government-issued ID when voting.
However, 51 percent of the randomly selected 2,047 adults surveyed nationally between July 18 and 29 said they had either heard not much or nothing at all about voter ID laws.
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Who can vote? A national News21 investigation of voting rights in America. |
“From a public awareness standpoint, it’s pretty low awareness,” said Jon Cohen, The Post’s director of polling. “We’re talking about under half of all American adults who have even heard something of this raging controversy.”
In 2011-12, lawmakers proposed 62 photo-ID bills in 37 states, with multiple bills introduced in some states. Ten states have passed strict photo ID laws since 2008, though several may not be in effect in November because of legal challenges.
Polling expert Phil Meyer, professor emeritus at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, said he agrees that the public is not familiar with voter-ID laws, and that how poll questions are worded could determine responses.
When a recent University of Delaware poll, for instance, presented laws as a way to stop voter fraud, there was more support than when the same measures were described as a possible form of discrimination.
University of Delaware political science professor David Wilson, who conducted that national survey from May 20 to June 6, said it showed the 906 randomly selected respondents weren’t familiar with the debate over voter IDs.
Wilson said most people haven’t heard as much about disenfranchisement as they have about alleged voter fraud because the media does not report on voter disenfranchisement.
“Until they see specific media accounts of how these things can disenfranchise voters, people won’t know much about that argument,” Wilson said.
A racial gap
In the Washington Post poll, there was a sizable gap between whites, who were more concerned about the voter fraud that ID laws are supposed to prevent, and blacks, who were more concerned about the disenfranchisement that such laws could cause.
Cohen said these results show a stark racial divide that lines up with partisan divisions based on the questions asked.
News21 is a program of the Carnegie Corporation of New York and the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation that is helping to change the way journalism is taught in the U.S. and train a new generation of journalists capable of reshaping the news industry. It is headquartered at the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. Since 2006, nearly 500 top journalism students in the U.S. have participated in the landmark national initiative.
The Post found that 52 percent of whites were more concerned about voter fraud, compared with 26 percent of blacks; 67 percent of blacks cited more concern about voter disenfranchisement, compared with 40 percent of whites.
Meyer said the public is generally confused about the basic argument for voter-ID laws, which is that they would prevent voter fraud. Advocates for the laws, overwhelmingly Republican and conservative, cite fraud repeatedly, but have offered virtually no evidence to support this claim.
“Voter fraud, if you haven’t thought about it, sounds bad,” said Meyer, a veteran journalist and expert in computer-assisted reporting. “But if you do" think about it, "the probability of a vote being fraudulent, it’s less than your chance of being struck by lightning.”
The Post poll also found a significant partisan divide among racial groups when asked the same fraud versus disenfranchisement question.
“There are two good things at stake,” Cohen said. “People want all eligible voters to vote, and people want no fraud.”
“Concern” for voter fraud was more important among Republicans than Democrats, with 67 percent compared with 32 percent, respectively.
However, 62 percent of Democrats showed more concern for disenfranchisement, compared with 27 percent of Republicans.
Additionally, 59 percent of blacks and 41 percent of whites said support of voter-ID laws is an effort to boost one party by a good amount or a great deal.
Democrats and civil-rights groups say the ID laws are unnecessary and will disenfranchise eligible voters, especially minority groups, adding heat to an already charged partisan debate.
Every state legislature that has enacted a voter-ID law — except Rhode Island’s — was controlled by Republicans when its law was passed.
Bipartisan support
The Post poll shows broad support for ID laws despite party affiliation, with support from 88 percent of Republicans and 60 percent of Democrats.
Wendy Weiser, director of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law, which opposes strict voter-ID laws, is concerned that polling on the issue misses many of the people most likely to be impacted.
“The people who don’t have ID are less likely to be captured by telephone polls,” she said. “They’re less likely to be people who answer telephone polls and less likely to have landlines.”
Weiser and Wilson say that many people supporting voter ID trust the government to apply the laws fairly.
“People are giving those who are pushing these laws the benefit of the doubt, because there must be a good reason for it,” Wilson said.
According to The Post poll, 48 percent of those surveyed say they believe voter fraud is a major problem; 57 percent of Republicans responded that way.
Wilson’s University of Delaware study found that the laws enjoy more support among those who had high levels of “racial resentment” when answering questions about African Americans receiving “special considerations.”
Racial resentment
For example, Wilson said that those surveyed were more likely to support voter-ID laws if they agreed with the statement, “African Americans bring up race only when they need to make an excuse for their failure.”
The poll found that 34 percent of all respondents strongly agreed or somewhat agreed with that statement.
Wilson said the “racial resentment” response represented an attitude about who deserves the right to vote. “It’s racialized about who might be getting what in society, and deserving it,” he said.
According to Wilson, people who showed high levels of racial resentment probably believe that a “real American” doesn’t have trouble getting an ID, doesn’t need help from the government and doesn’t complain.
“It’s about the identity that Americans have … It’s about working and not complaining — not asking for special favors like Spanish-speaking forms, or having to be politically correct in public conversations,” he said.
Wilson said the lack of knowledge about the laws, along with the racial issues involved, show that many supporters of voter ID cannot see things from the perspective of disenfranchised voters.
“They tend to not be in the position of those who are disenfranchised,” he said. “It’s not 40 or 50 percent of the public — it’s people at the margins. But the margins make a difference in elections.”
Wilson said it is not surprising that Republicans have higher levels of racial resentment and stronger support for voter-ID laws.
“You have to think about the parties that are involved. The Republican Party is much more homogeneous than the Democratic Party,” he said.
Democrats have criticized the laws for having a disproportionate effect on minorities. That, in turn, could mean a drop in turnout, which would hurt Democratic candidates.
Nate Silver, a statistician who writes the FiveThirtyEight election and political blog for the New York Times, raised the stakes in the voter-ID debate in July, when he wrote about the possible impact of the laws on the presidential election.
After Pennsylvania’s strict ID law was passed in March, the Pennsylvania Department of State estimated that 758,939 — or 9 percent — of the state’s registered voters lacked driver’s licenses, and could be ineligible to vote under the new law.
Silver however, was more conservative in his analysis of likely impact. He said he expects Pennsylvania’s new voter-ID law to cause a 2.4 percent drop in turnout and said this would shift 1.2 percent of the vote to the Republican candidate in a traditionally Democratic state.
In a close election, Silver said, the voter-ID law could help likely Republican nominee Mitt Romney beat President Barack Obama in Pennsylvania.
Dispute over effect of disenfranchisement
Silver said that estimates of potential voter disenfranchisement by civil-rights groups are inflated.
“People seize on the most dramatic number without necessarily telling the whole story,” he told News21.
Pennsylvania is not the only state which has had high estimates of potential disenfranchisement.
In a lawsuit over the Texas law, Harvard political science professor Stephen Ansolabehere testified that 1.5 million to 1.9 million voters do not have the state-issued ID required under the law, an estimate lawyers for Texas called flawed.
The Texas voter-ID law was blocked by the Department of Justice under the Voting Rights Act, and the state has sued to enforce the law.
Rulings in the Pennsylvania and Texas cases are expected in August.
Jack Fitzpatrick and Khara Persad were Hearst Foundations fellows this summer for News21.
Discuss this series of stories on the Facebook page for Open Channel, the NBC News investigative blog.
Or send feedback to News21.
Leave a Comment:
Why is someone so concerned over their right to vote without showing photo I.D. if they are apparently not concerned about
Cashing a check
Boarding an airplane
Purchasing alcohol or tobacco products
Renting a motor vehicle or a boat
Obtaining a driver's license
Obtaining a permit to stage a protest or rally
Opening a bank account
Obtaining a hunting or fishing license
Because none of those things you listed are a "right". Voting IS a right.
There is no need for a photo ID to vote. Look at it this way...if you are voting in a federal election it shouldn't even matter in what state you vote. The process for federal voting should be exactly the same across the board so that if I live in Florida but happen to be vacationing in Alaska when the election day rolls around, it should be no problem for me to cast my vote for a president in Alaska.
Not only that, but the premise that photo ID will somehow prevent voter fraud of the type the Republicans are addressing is false. This whole photo ID push is nothing but a blatant attempt at voter suppression by a party that knows full well it is a minority party and must do anything it can to even the odds by hook or crook...mostly by crooks.
The racist DOJ is getting mixed up in voter ID because it keeps people from voting, like felons, dead people, non residents, illegal aliens..those are the ones the DOJ, Jackson, and Sharpton say are being (don't you just love this word) DISENFRANCHISED. Remember the testiomony in congress by one of Holders own DOJ attorneys under oath that Holder said HIS dept would not pursue voting right complaints filed by whites against blacks?? Look it up, it's part of congressional record transcripts. Proofs in the pudding ain't it..the film of the NBP Party dude standing outside a polling area with a club in his hand..Ya got Chicago style politics being enforced at a national level..what did you expect from people from Chicago? A fair election process....dream on. Just think Dems and Libs, they will turn on you even faster if you don't dance their dance...think twice about your decisions..and watch your back..
What does it being a "right" have to do with it? Making sure that the vote is fair and one vote for one person and that person is allowed to vote has nothing to do with a right... And in regards to federal elections, the system still depends on the electoral college which is state by state.
I think I have a "right" to expect my vote counts the same as everyone else's vote. This means assurances that all reasonable steps have been done to ensure the integrity of the voting process.
I agree that if voter ID's are not relatively easy to get and free to those that can't afford the cost, the laws should be changed - but I see no reason not to require a voter ID with a picture.
Oh Jeff, that magic word "fair." What is fair? How is picture ID fair if it is more difficult for some than others to obtain a current ID? And while on the subject of fair, because I think that a 39 percent marginal tax rate is fair - explain why in some states it is fair to use your gun owners ID to vote, but not a college student ID card?
Hey culheath, vote in ANY fed election..Let's all hire a couple of thousand buses with Tea Party or ACORN shirts on and just travel to the states we want to influence. Are you that st/upid? Try this on for size, lets have an education test given that if you don't pass it shows you are too st?upid to vote. Try this on for size. let's make sure you have some skin in the game before voting a tax increase for others that pay tax..Yeah, I know about the Jim Crow laws.BS..Once people realize they can vote themselves more money from the gov we are doomed..Greece come to mind, along with Spain, Italy and now France...Dang, the French tax attorneys have been busy, preparing tax shelters for the rich French people to leave France..You always forget, the rich have enough money to leave and leave the poor high and dry with no money coming in to pay their way. At some point, even the most forgiving host realizes the leeches are bleeding him dry and it time to get rid of the leeches...or go where there aren't any leeches..
Yet another race baiting article. Even if voting IS a right, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't have to be able to prove who you are. Being able to attend a public school is a "right", too, but my parents had to show my birth certificate when they enrolled me, and had to prove every year that my immunizations were up to date. Today we seem to absolve the individual of any responsibility for anything. I believe if your right to vote isn't important enough to spur you to get off your butt and get a simple ID, then you really don't have any business voting in the first place. The only reason why millions of voters are even registered to vote is because someone knocks on their door and essentially does all the work for them. Maybe it's time we purge our voting rolls of the lazy, apathetic voters who won't bother to exercise their vote if they actually have to DO something in order to cast it.
Yes, voting is a right, but it's a PRECIOUS right that SHOULD demand some effort and some sacrifice (even if it is tiny). If getting an ID is just too much trouble, then just stay home, because you aren't qualified to help the rest of us make the decisions that will impact the future of our nation. If getting an ID is too much trouble, then you are probably just going to vote for whatever makes YOUR life easier anyway, which is probably not what's best for the USA.
No, voter ID laws are not discriminatory because they apply equally to EVERYONE. They are not "designed" to exclude anyone, but simply to make sure that elections are fair and honest. The fact that a man was able to walk into Eric Holder's home precinct, identify himself verbally as Eric Holder, and get a ballot in the Attorney General's name should be reason enough to convince even the heartiest skeptic that the system is severely broken. (The same Eric Holder who denies their is a problem with voting).
The simple truth is that democrats count on voting irregularities to bolster their totals. Illegals, people voting multiple times, people voting for others, people casting votes for the dead. They don't care about minorities. They care about keeping these votes!
So Ron, you have no problem with the vote machine software in states like Ohio being controlled by a private company or that in most states the whole process of voting hours, voting locations and number and quality of vote machines and workers at each location are controlled by one party or the other's elected state Secretary of State? You didn't have a problem with the Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris being co-chair of Bush's election campaign in 2000. The same Katherine Harris that decided which names to purge from the registered voter rolls based on being a "suspected" felon?
Disenfranchisement and racial profiling are complete garbage. This is how it has been marketed to the masses, so those who take in all the garbage hook-line-and sinker believe everything they hear from their respective puppet masters.
This is an honorable attempt to close loopholes in a system that CAN have exposed flaws. It is a permanent fix to a problem. But many choose to play the race card, or the minority card, or the poor old lady from the hills who never had an ID.
Here's the solution - GET AN ID. (See the original post on this thread with some pretty compelling reasons for getting an ID. I might add to this list the requirement to pick up your prescriptions only after providing proof of identification!)
culheath - Remember how Obamacare was touted as a "right". To participate in this "right" you WILL BE REQUIRED TO SHOW IDENTIFICATION! Are you sticking to your assertion that voting is a right and you don't need an ID for a "RIGHT"?
And with rights go responsibilities, like the responsibility to get off your butt at some point and get a free photo ID to identify yourself.
In typical leftist thinking, according to your "logic", any voter registration should be illegal because of the "burden" puts on people to get a registration card, fill it out and send it in. Here's a clue...it's not that big of a burden and neither is getting that free photo ID.
Voter registration proves who you are. There. Done.
Laws requiring photo IDs to vote will encourage absentee voting, where voter fraud is a real problem.
There's the crux of it. The voter ID issue is another example of how Republicans use hot-button, emotional issues - bumper sticker sized - to sway opinion. They know that the other side of the issue won't be presented. Easy sell and the willfully uninformed get snookered again.
We've got way too many people more interested in Snookie's latest escapades than they are in the truth of this country's political problems.
Comparing the fundamental right to participate in America to cashing a check is a pretty good illustration of exactly what the article is about. The fact that people blindly support something they cannot bother themselves to knowing anything about.
One might as well add, walking down the street, to the list in that case. We can emulate old black and white movies where men in long black leather coats corner you on the street and demand...Your papers please......
You are correct when you state that voting is a right granted by the Constitution to United States citizens. Do you assume that everyone who walks into a polling place is a citizen? If you do, you are ignorant because there are documented cases of vote fraud. If you don't, then why do you have a problem with providing proof of eligibility to vote?
Talk about mountains out of molehills. If you don't have a driver's license or military ID or passport, then the state should give you a photo ID. Problem solved. If you're too damn lazy to even get that, it's unlikely you're informed enough to vote responsibly anyway.
I'm not concerned about having to present an ID to vote, but I do wonder about the homeless. If you have no residence, you can't be assigned a precinct so how do they vote? I would imagine that's a far more serious issue.
Bruce, when was the last time you had to produce a birth certificate (on sealed by the state or county)? For most people it's the first time they get a DL, and often then, their parents assist them or have a copy buried in a drawer at home. After that, you move from state to state presenting your previous state's DL as "proof" to get your next license. But the chain gets broken if you stop driving and let your license expire. Talk to any woman about the hassle of getting their social security card updated after they are married, especially if it's years later when they discover that they never got it changed. Imagine you are not living in a different state and your parents are long dead and that dresser with the drawer containing everything has long since been placed at the curb.
That 'right' also has a prerequisite to be a citizen. Showing ID is how you satisfy the prerequisite. Just like pres candidates should be showing birth certificates to show they're natural born citizens and old enough-- so it doesnt become an idiotic distraction. The thing we should be getting rid of is registration and home precinct voting. Both can be solved with electronic voting. Also, we should have a voting week instead of a voting day.
denver bill @#1............in your list, also include going to the doctor, they kinda want to see a photo ID.
Recycle: Check your parents' Medicare cards - no photo. Your company issued insurance card - no photo. Do you favor the government putting pics on Medicare and Medicaid ID's and allowing those as accepted proof to vote? After all, you are voting to cut their benefits, shouldn't they be allowed to vote to keep them?
A right? a right?
I have a right to life (liberty & happiness) that doesn't mean someone won't break the law & kill me.
Just the same as you have a right to vote doesn't mean that I won't go into a polling station & illegally vote for you.
Are we pretending crime doesn't exist? is that the new liberal game?
The stupidity with photo ID as opposed to any other sort of ID is that even photo ID can be faked and so the reasoning is false that photo ID somehow is more credible. For all you whining about having to show ID to vote, that was always done...it's the photo ID requirement that is difficult for many older and disabled people to acquire. And since it was proven even under the Bush administration that voter fraud is practically non-existent, your arguments are moot.
We have the right to Assembly, we have the Right to Bear Arms, etc. Last I checked I still had to produce a photo I.D. to purchase a firearm, carry a firearm, or obtain a permit to stage a demonstration, parade, or rally. What does showing a photo I.D. have to do with a damned thing other than proving you are who you say you are so that those rights are not infringed? Most states will issue a state sponsored I.D. for free as well as provide taxpayer funded transportation to and from the DMV. If you're worried about this, then what you're really scared of is that your candidate can't win without the benefit of fraudulent votes. It protects the integrity of the system and discriminates against no one.
Now there's some real logic. Talk about your strawman argument. Hooo--weee.
Study finds voter fraud nearly nonexistent
August 13, 2012|By Chris Durden | KWCH 12 Eyewitness News
(WICHITA, Kan.) — A new study finds in-person voter fraud is virtually nonexistent in the United States.
News21, a non-partisan project funded by the Carnegie and Knight foundations, conducted the study.
Researchers looked at the 2,068 reported cases of voter fraud since 2000 out of more than 600 million votes cast. The study found, "while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent."
Maybe I wasn't being clear when I said:
If any of the things you listed negatively affect the integrity of the voting process, then I agree they should be corrected. Also, I'm guessing you are listing those things as Republican abuses and assuming I'm a Republican...I'm not. I'm non-partisan and I've voted Democrat the last 2 presidential elections.
I completely disagee with illegals voting. Last elections we had in Texas (July 2012) for local and state elections, I saw many illegls voting by producing their Illegal ID card I-9 issued by the Government. If you go to www - dot - uscis.gov-shash filesslash-formslash - i-9.pdf the government instructions for the card are there. Nowhere does it say a holder has the right to vote, just to work in the U.S., much like a work visa. The kicker is you can go online, download the form, print a blank copy and add the photo and informatin. How many ID's can Americans do that too? Not drivers licenses, not passports nor any other form of ID. This is wrong, the right to vote is for Americans, legal rsidences and citizens of the US.
This is irritating ad wrong in my eyes!!!!
The issue is voting is a right. Rights are yours to apply as you see fit. How would people react if their right to freedom of speech only existed for people with a specific kind of government ID? Voting is not a priveledge to be granted it is a right that each of us has and owns. To require an ID is to assume a voter is guilty of fraud until he produces an ID to prove otherwise.
The assumption by the authors is people don't understand the implications of voter ID laws, it seems the authors assume it will keep people from voting which is the idea the left has been floating for some time, Could it be the majority of people don't believe that the ID laws will not impact participation by legally registered voters? I believe the authors are condescending pedants.
culheath...
there you go again... trying to change the subject.
How much fraud is acceptable? is it a percentage or a hard number? who decides that? you?
If we can reduce fraud by having a picture ID then we should do it. People who make fake ids should be punished. or am i wrong about crime & punishment? leading me back to my point of are we pretending crime doesn't exist? if these are the new rules then I will vote early & often this election myself.
...and many of the illegals take cash paying jobs and pay no taxes! Now if the government impliments a vaue added tax on all merchandise rather then taking taxes out of paychecks, everyone would pay tax and then I could see illegals righ to vote. Just change the law I mentioned above!
What about my right to be assured my vote counts? What difference does it make if I vote if there is election fraud?
Most people favor voter ID laws because they make sense.
But, of course, the liberal press has to jump in and call people who see it otherwise as: "public awareness of their effect is low." If that's the case, then I would say anyone who will be voting for Obama this time around isn't paying attention to the world around them. Ignorant!
culheath
In your first post (1.2) you just mproved the Republicans point, good job (clap clap). For your information, if say you are unable to to vote in your home district, you are allowed to vote by either early balloting or absentee voting (I did it when I was overseas). You talk about being able to vote in Alaska when your home say is in California is already against the law. So the reason that you don't want ids at the voting booth is so that you can vote in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, La, Texas, Arkansas and Tenn all on the same day! 1person = 7 votes. Vote early and vote often. The Chicago Democrat way lol
If you read this article objectivly it's bottom line is that there is zero proof of a need for these laws, and the republican party has more white, racist, ignorant hicks than the democratic party. Who would have guessed if not for the large number of ignorant white racist hicks on this board today?
Reason that the list above won't work is the republicans are not saying any ID will be OK for voting... In some states student ID is not OK but a hunting licence is...
Give me a brake, this voter ID is just a way to suppress the vote by the right wing nut cases...
We should have every State attorney General send out the ID they want to use, to every eligible voter, problem solved...
It doesn't have to be by party, just be over eighteen and a citizen... Be done with it.
Romney and Ryan 2012
Leave it to liberals to publish garbage like this one again disagreeing with the overwhelming majority of American citizens and calling them stupid in the process.
It is a VOTER I.D. law! Americans have been showing I.D. for everything since they were 16 years old. Do you think anyone possessing a shred of common sense needs to do any research to support the law?
Once again liberals highlight their concern for their personal political power above all else.
And people wonder why Political Science is taught in the College of Liberal Arts.
Get up your @$$ you have 80 days to get your ID ,there is not additional requirements base on race or income, requirement are the same for all. No discrimination no excuses.
.
This topic really gets my dander up. The only voter fraud of any substance going on is the massively fraudulent efforts by Republicans to disenfranchise typical democratic voters. It's not only disingenuous but grossly racist, but what else should we expect from the party of Lincoln that has evolved into this present travesty. Urban dwellers often don't need cars and the drivers licenses required to operate them. When the main form of government photo ID is the drivers license, requiring a photo ID to vote makes that whole segment of our society have to jump through hoops that the rest of us don't. Can't the civic minded back room plotters see that outcome? Well yes they can, nobody is that stupid, which is exactly why they are doing it. Perhaps they should also think of the contempt they engendered and the reaction that will occur when a large number of citizens are turned away at the polls. It won't be pretty.
If you are correct, that means that the typical Democratic voter does none of the things I listed in my original post. Are you sure you want to stick with that claim?
Hi Ron1861300 - I'm replying to your earlier post. Just FYI, state-issued IDs are FREE. I just got one because there was a hiccup in switching my Driver's License from VA to IN. And I needed to pick up a package from the USPS and pick up a prescription that required ID. I had to prove US citizenship and IN residency. I paid absolutely nothing. So anyone who can prove they are a US citizen should be able to get an ID for free.
I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, honestly. The article did nothing to say what the effects will be, other than a decrease in voters. As a Democrat, I guess I should be lamblasting it, but I'm not really seeing why it's so horrible. You take 15 minutes of your day and get an ID. No biggie. I guess I need to research the issue some more to find out what the stakes really are. Just wanted to put to rest the expense and difficulty of getting state-issued picture ID.
Wje
The clown Al Franken won in a fraudulent election with votes from felons and death people.
Just a question here; if a person cannot ID themselves to vote, does that mean they currently cannot apply for, and receive, medicare, medicade, welfare, and food stamps....or does it mean that people receiving medicare, medicade, welfare and food stamps are not currently being identified?
Inquiring minds want to know!
The only reason I can think of that libs would be so against photo id for voting is because they know they have fraud working for them and they're afraid they'll lose if they don't have the fraud.
Seriously, this is as logical as requiring a photo id to drive. It isn't that hard to get a photo id. If you're too lazy to get one, then you're too lazy to vote.
Most of the public doesn't know the details of voter ID laws because the right-wing has gone out of its way to make sure the issue is as confusing as possible. They know they can't win elections straight up, so they manufacture lies and misinformation to make it sound like there's a real problem with voter ID fraud. The fact remains and this goes back over 10 years, there have been 42 cases of voter ID fraud in 10 years. That's less than one person per state per year.
The truth is, the right wing is attempting to exclude minority and poor voters because they know these citizens will not vote for them. It's the same reason they've gone out of their way to re-district to give themselves a voter base advantage. They are a sleazy, lying bunch who will break any laws any way they can and will sink the entire nation and it's people to win elections. As is being proven by their actions over the last few years.
The right wing is not fooling most Americans.
Kenn the Dem,
The problem with the voter suppression that you currently see taking place it that they limit the forms of ID that they will allow. People who apply for food stamps, heating assistance, etc..etc.. merely have to show, let's say, an energy bill in their name, with their current address.
The voter suppression that is taking place does not allow your name and address on an energy bill, the name and address matches the name and address on the voter registration registar but they will not accept it anymore.
Voter ID is just fine as long as it is provided to all qualified applicants absolutely free of charge, and you should be able to walk into the office, fill out the paperwork then walk out with your ID in one afternoon. Otherwise, its a terrible idea.
The idea of it being a drivers license is simply moronic. If they did that in New York State, there would be a tremendous number of New Yorkers would would not be eligible to vote.
This tells me not that voter fraud isn't happening, but that it's not being caught, which is why we need voter ID laws to protect the process, since we are obviously not catching the cheats.
Alex,
That is a lie. Voter fraud is very, very small. Voter fraud where someone poses as someone else, this is the only type of fraud that this will catch, is NON-EXISTANT.
The voter fraud that does occur is voting 2 times. Voting at college, then going home and voting. Voting via absentee ballot and voting at the voting booth.
oskar - Franken may be a clown, that's how he earned his living before he went into politics, but the idea that he was elected because of extra votes cast by present or past felons or dead people is absurd. The Republicans did their best to smear him, threw tons of money to his opponent, and challenged him in court. He still won. Live with it.
I have the right to purchase a firearm so I guess I should be allowed to buy that with not ID. Wow your clueless. If voter fraud doesn't happen explain this
Just a few reasons you should have to show an ID to vote.
"This tells me not that voter fraud isn't happening, but that it's not being caught, which is why we need voter ID laws to protect the process, since we are obviously not catching the cheats."
LOLOL, really? And you actually used the word logic in your name?
Repubs are not just creating voter id laws, they are changing early voting times by ballot, changing hrs to lesser hrs open in Democratic area, removing voter places in Democratic areas so people have to stand in line for most of the day to vote, changing voter registration rules for new voters registration cards to be handed in(such as making it a crime if the registration is not handed in in 24 hrs)this makes people who go out and sign people up to vote subject to jail if 1 minute late getting registration in. In Mn the wording for mail in ballots that id has to be present when vote counted, this would eliminate mail in ballots. Repubs are plain crooks with voter ID plans designed to remove the elderly, the young, and the middle class voters who graphics show that they oppose repub ideas. Karl Rove stated that if they can remove 1% of those voters in 9 states, repubs can win the elections. Making voter suppression ID laws should be a crime when it takes away a legal voters rights.
Obama/Biden and Democrats save your right to vote.
I took my ID down to vote and was blocked by Two Black Panther members holding night sticks, they were not prosecuted by this administration that is so worried about voter suppression so I guess standing in front of a polling place with weapons is cool? Right?
Hal,
The problem is they are requiring raised seal birth certificates. People 1) have to pay to obtain these 2) drive to different places to obtain what is required 3) take time from work since these offices are open only during the day.
It is a poll tax. Since the work tax is involved Pukes should be up in arms about it. But, of course, they are the ones pushing it, so it's ok.
So a couple of things:
Regardless of voting being a "right", there should be a process in place to prove you are who you say you are. This is not disenfranchisement (gosh that word is stupid). Even ONE count of voter fraud is one too many. So the lightning analogy by the author is not apropos.
If someone is in this "disenfranchised" category, give them the ID for FREE. Then it is a non issue. And now they can fly and rent a car. Btw, the lovely girl from Texas that testified in congress that she didn't have time to get one, had the time to fly to Washington? Hhmmmm?
To Cullheath's point, it would be nice to do a popular vote. But someone would have to fundamentally change the electoral system as it exists today. Believe me, neither the Republicans or Democrats want to do this. It is a system past its usefullness however. The reasons for it being implemented no longer apply. Now if you are a George Bush fan, you would have seen Al Gore as President because he actually won the popular vote while losing the electoral. Before the trolls get all angsty about the electoral comment...get over it.
If an ID is needed to join the military, which it is, then an ID should be required for someone to vote for a person (president) who can put our military in harms way.
Well I don't have a lot of evidence but I do know I have committed voter fraud in the last two elections with no problems so they are not catching everyone are they.
My message is commit voter fraud until the laws are changed, it's easy and almost impossible to get caught.
If that had actually happened Logic, it would have made nation-wide news. But if we're looking for massive voter fraud, the only proven example is the 2000 election, which despite the overwhelming majority of citizens voting for Al Gore, the election was stolen by Bush. Now THAT'S a proven case of election fraud. I wonder where you were when that happened? Did the Black Panthers attack you then too?
Hey Rod Father,
How exactly do they drive here and there without ID? How did they fill out an I-9 for work without the appropriate paperwork..Birth Certificate or Social Security Card. Oh and they need a picture ID...
So your point is???? Poll tax? Get real...
Like I said in my previous post. If they cannot afford it...give the ID for FREE. Birth Certificates can be obtained over the phone btw. Had mine shipped to me from a Northeast state. I had to prove who I was and pay a small fee, but no travel.
I call BS on the chance that voting fraud is less likely than an individual being struck by lightning. Taking precautions is not bigoted or racist in any way. It is a right for citizens to vote and for their vote to be counted. If a foreigner, or a dead person or Cinderella's vote offsets mine then it is I who has been disenfranchized. A valid picture ID is not hard to acquire. People today are so stupid. Honestly, if you're too stupid to get an ID you have no business voting anyways. Idiots. This article is biased nonsense; at least try to appear impartial you tools.
Ok..I am calling BS on Logicrequired. So you have committed voter fraud and have been blocked to voting by black panthers with night sticks?
Pathological comes to mind...
This lib is not against ID's, only the obstacles erected to give one segment of our people a hard time. If the country had a universal requirement for an ID that everybody needed, I would be totally behind that, especially if it shut up Republican blow-hards. Every town has a post-office, at least they did until the GOP sabotaged their funding, that is where you can get a pass-port which in most states you can use as a voter ID. Unfortunately, that thing costs about a hundred bucks. And our country does not require a person to walk around with a photo ID or proof of citizenship, except maybe Arizona with their largely made up efforts to solve an immigration problem. You want everybody in this country to possess and carry a modern day internal passport, go for it, I think it would be a good idea, but this piecemeal crap is just what the word suggest.
Voting is a right, that is correct. Buying and owning a firearm is a right as well. Would you like us to make it "photo ID, background check and 7 day waiting period" before you can vote?
The "because it's a right" argument is completely invalid.
OSCAR......YOU ARE A LIAR WHEN YOU SAID "Al Franken won in a fraudulent election with votes from felons and death people." When candidates votes are within 1% of each other in Mn by law there is a recount. Every vote was gone over by both parties. Repubs in Mn were saying that of couse to smear Franken. When count was done Franken won. There was zero fraud. You should apologize for repeating that lie.
Logic ...........also forgot to mention he lives with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster.
@ Starsailor: Do you have proof to back up your claims? It sounds a little too farfetched, just as any claims that Dems are encouraging illegals to vote and registering dead citizens to vote Dem as well. Perhaps the truth may be somewhere in the middle.
Martiniblues -
Great point
The whole idea a "voter fraud" is really a talking point for the GOP. Let's think for a moment about when we show up to vote for MAJOR mostly Presidential elections. Lines are usually long, then we wait to walk to the long table being maned by 6-8 retiree's in their 70 or 80's, who can barely find your address the first time you tell them, then you have to spell your name at least once, so they can still find you on the voter registar, then it takes the "official" an extra 20-30 seconds to grab a ruler, find the address line a second time after you've pointed it out to them again, so they can draw a red line through the address and your name, then turn the book around so you can sign it. Then it's on to the next volunteer to print out your electronic number and then you wait for a machine/booth to open.
Now imagine if you can - training "another qualified volunteer" to check photo ID's and make independent determinations regarding that ID? Come on.....These people are all volunteers, not trained in any way to manage individual forms of ID, they can barely find your address in the registrar books now. It's not like buying a boat, car, or fishing license....if you're registerred, you get to vote....period. Fraud comes into play when someone else shows up with the same name and address and tries to vote for you....and contrary to what people are led to believe...it simply does not happen. Where the problem is in the Voter Registration process. That is where ID needs to be shown, not at the polling booth on election day.
wje
Gov. Nikki Haley and the South Carolina DMV announced ... DMV announced Wednesday a plan to give a free ride to anyone who needs a photo ID to vote but doesn't ... the DMV will call the citizen back to confirm the request and provide an appointment for transportation…
Only 25 citizens respond .
Chris....the stories are on the local news, national news, and repeated daily here in Minnesota where repubs are taking massive changes. In Mn the Secretary of State had to change the repub wording of voter id laws because it does not just require id, it changes too many rules and is completely misleading.
Just like the repub politician bragged when voter id law passed in Pennsylvania. Voter id suppresion law done , now Romney can win the election. 758,000 voters are now not able to vote with/out new registration and there is not enough time to get them all back on.
Analysis of the resulting comprehensive News21 election fraud database turned up 10 cases of voter impersonation. With 146 million registered voters in the United States during that time, those 10 cases represent one out of about every 15 million prospective voters.
“Voter fraud at the polls is an insignificant aspect of American elections,” said elections expert David Schultz, professor of public policy at Hamline University School of Business in St. Paul, Minn.
“There is absolutely no evidence," Schultz said, that voter impersonation fraud "has affected the outcome of any election in the United States, at least any recent election in the United States."
I voted last Presidential election 4 times... Hello I said 4,4,4 times so is that right????????? All of you who say that NO ID is necessary are IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No wonder Dems are fighting ID voting for they know they can vote 4 to 8 times.... What a f*cking joke Dems are!!!!
Like the guy said on tv, "it is profane". Thousands have died fighting for our right to vote. Republicans are simply dishonoring these dead. Truly ... this new gop we are witnessing IS profane. Have PROVEN IT DAILY since this administration started.
Logic,
you lie like a penny in the parking lot. I'm sure you were blocked by the nbp???.........what a story you tell
BC Patriot,
Not everyone drives. People in big cities do not drive, they take mass transit. It is too expensive to own a car in large cities if you do not have off street parking.
Old people who signed up for services that they are receiving years, and years ago do not drive. They have someone drive them to the polls. There are people who have voted for decades who are now ineligible to vote.
Voting is not a "Right", per se. Voting is a privilege that can be revoked, (as in the case of being a felon), or not granted, (as in the case of being an illegal).
The only people against the idea of requiring photo voter ID are those who harbor or those who are felons, illegals or unregistered citizens who don't want to get a government-issued photo ID, because they would be arrested for crimes that they have warrants against them for or would be deported for being here illegally. They're afraid of being "found-out". And they shouldn't be allowed to vote until they fix those problems in their lives and start living the way the rest of us do: In the light of the day, unafraid to show our faces or our photo ID's when we, the real citizen's of this country, go to our polling place to exercise our "Privilege" to vote for the candidate of our choosing.
I don't care what gender, race, ethnicity, color, or creed you live by. If you want to vote here, have or get a photo ID and stand up and be counted.
How about a VOTER INCENTIVE to FACT CHECK the candidates when they go off on these fabricated "issues".
oskar,
The only clown here is you. I live in Minnesota, Al Franken has been a great Senator.
My parents always voted Republican, but since they died, they vote Democrat.
Steve,
You azzhat, it is a right. As soon as you turn 18 you have the right to cast a vote.
What people on this vine don't understand is that SOME people are unable to get a picture ID for very valid reasons; i.e., people in old-age homes, people who are unable to get birth certificates for one reason or another, disabled people who can't get out to get an ID card (but can vote by mail), etc. There are MANY plausible reasons why some people are unable to get out to get a voter ID card....it isn't just because they are lazy (a right wing idea)....it's because they can't for very good reasons. Why should they be denied the right to vote? Can we have someone go into old-age homes, retirement homes, hospitals, etc. and sign these people up and get them valid photo ID cards? If they can't get out themselves to get the required photo ID card, how do you expect them to be able to vote??? And, if they were born and somehow never got a birth certificate (which oftimes happens when you are born in your home without a doctor present), how do you apply for a photo ID....what else can they show to indicate proof of citizenship? The problem is that there are just too many problems for a large group of people to obtain the proper ID so they can vote (as is their right).
I don’t use to respond ignorant liber-tad but, I’ll make an exception to my rule. You are free to make your bias conclusion.
When 1100 felons vote in a tight election and the result was decided by just 312 votes, maybe there really is a problem with voter fraud.
And that's just what happened in Minnesota in 2008, when Democrat Al Franken beat Republican Norm Coleman by 312 votes, giving a filibuster-proof majority to the Democrats so they could end up passing Obamacare.
The Minnesota Senate result was contested by Franken and an army of lawyers who ended up litigating a win. Now, because of the work of a group Minnesota Majority and reported by John Fund and Hans von Spasky in their new book "Who's Counting," it seems Franken's victory may be based on inelligible voting by convicted criminals.
"Minnesota Majority began to look into claims of voter fraud. Comparing criminal records with voting rolls, the group identified 1,099 felons -- all ineligible to vote -- who had voted in the Franken-Coleman race," York writes.
"Minnesota Majority took the information to prosecutors across the state, many of whom showed no interest in pursuing it. But Minnesota law requires authorities to investigate such leads. And so far, Fund and von Spakovsky report, 177 people have been convicted -- not just accused, but convicted -- of voting fraudulently in the Senate race. Another 66 are awaiting trial. "The numbers aren't greater," the authors say, "because the standard for convicting someone of voter fraud in Minnesota is that they must have been both ineligible, and 'knowingly' voted unlawfully."
That means that at least 243 votes of the 312 margin of Franken's victory were fraudulent.
One Citizen, One Vote!
Recently, there's been a lot said about voter registration, voter fraud and voter ID.
Previously, the US Supreme Court ruled, in an Indiana case, that states can require photo identification from voters. Not only should all states require a voter ID, we need to ensure that only eligible US citizens vote in order to prevent fraud.
It's about time we introduce a secure, tamper proof voter ID, like our neighbors to the South, in Mexico, are doing since 2004. It is difficult to believe that in our times a person can exist without an ID, for it’s necessary to get welfare benefits, food stamps, unemployment benefits, even banking account…
"Mexico’s Instituto Federal Electoral (IFE) is an autonomous, non-partisan organization charged with ensuring free and fair elections.
In January, 2004, IFE entered into a four-year contract with Digimarc Corporation to design and supply secure, reliable voter ID cards to Mexican citizens in order to help ensure the ideal of “One Citizen, One Vote.”
In the three years since then, nearly 25 million credentials have been produced and Mexico’s voter ID card is now widely regarded as one of the most secure, reliable voter identification systems in the world.
So trusted is the integrity of Mexico’s voter ID credential that amid all the controversy surrounding the close presidential election on July 2, 2006, no one questioned the security, reliability, or authenticity of Mexico’s voter identification itself.
Indeed, Mexico’s voter ID has become the country’s de facto identification document and is readily accepted as positive proof-of-identity by merchants, banks, government officials, and citizens nationwide."
It's my opinion that we should communicate to our elected representatives that it's time they ensure
One Citizen, One Vote, and implement Federal, tamper-proof, Voter ID.
Frankly, I can't imagine any logical individual would argue against proper voter identification. However, lets look at this issue for what it is, the Dems don't want it because they believe it will cost them votes and the GOP wants it because they believe it will cost the Dems votes.
Anyone with any common sense knows that with large numbers of anything (i.e., voters) anything that can happen will happen. So there is definately some voter fraud occurring. We try to prevent every instance of robbery or murder or molestation, why are we any less concerned with voter fraud?
So for the people that are against IDs, are you saying that you believe that there are no cases where someone goes to the polling place and votes for another person?
You want IDs and strict control over firearms, which is also a constitutional right, but not over voting? What about all of those disenfranchised persons that want to own guns but do not have a photo ID, what is the difference. Technically, there is no difference.
Interesting that this innocuous post was collapsed by the community:
Study finds voter fraud nearly nonexistent
August 13, 2012|By Chris Durden | KWCH 12 Eyewitness News
(WICHITA, Kan.) — A new study finds in-person voter fraud is virtually nonexistent in the United States.
News21, a non-partisan project funded by the Carnegie and Knight foundations, conducted the study.
Researchers looked at the 2,068 reported cases of voter fraud since 2000 out of more than 600 million votes cast. The study found, "while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent."
Makes one wonder, it does, how our parents and grandparents and their forebears managed to register and vote with NO picture ID. Not to mention in the era before driver's licenses. And yet the Republic survived. The bigger problem is post-voting shenanigans ('lost" ballots etc.) Actual voter fraud (registration/voting) is like the Loch Ness monster - lots of Nessie sightings, not much to show for all the hoopla.
There should be NO changes in voter registration or ID requirements allowed in an election year. And redistricting should follow the one cookie/two kids rule: one cuts it in half and the other gets first pick. Republicans should redraw Democrats districts knowing Democrats will be redrawing Republican districts.
Is that so?
"zieg1087
Voter registration proves who you are. There. Done.
Laws requiring photo IDs to vote will encourage absentee voting, where voter fraud is a real problem"
Tell that to the illegal aliens interviewed in Chicago that admitted voting in the last election but claimed they didn't know they were not supposed to vote because someone took them to register!
You are right about absentee votes being where fraud occurs but the fraud is thier NOT being counted as in the last election when many military absentee votes were not counted.
Richard
So if, as you say
Then one would have to assume you are either self-loathing, a liar, or committing voter faud for the Republican party votes. Which is it? You are somehow obviously proud of the fact that you know how to commit voter fraud for the Republican or Independent parties and write about committing a felony in an open discussion forum......then call other people a JOKE. Really??
Those that are against Voter ID requirements are the ones that would engage in and/or endorse voter fraud of the type that anonymous voting promotes, and any claims of disenfranchisement are complete nonsense.
As this poll indicates, most people agree that the disenfranchisement claims are nonsense.
Didi....thanks for your post, always informative. So many Vets like you have served to protect our rights, the right to vote, and now repubs are trying to take away what you and other vets stood for when you served. The very thought of removing voting for ALEC to rig the elections, so ALEC can get more laws passed in favor of the rich is shameful to the worst degree.
Obama/Biden and Democrats will protect your right to vote. 2012
Shaking prove your SOURCE or be known for spreading a lie.
Willie prove your SOURCE.
Requiring ID to vote after one's identification is fully established by registration is just one more step toward A Brave New World of eliminating personal autonomy.
Republicans love government oversight when it works only against their opposition.
It never ceases to amaze me how liberals can seek to make the rational and totally logical sound completely absurd!
If the govt does all the footwork and all the cost, so be it. NO effort on part of the citizen should be considered. NO effort whatso ever. You start 'f'ing with american values that people have fought and died for, then you ignorant stained republicans have got something else coming. WE have heard "big brother " is coming and have witnessed it for years now. Big brother just keeps getting larger and no doubt will simply grow. Next will be the stamp on our foreheads as an ID. The price this country has paid with blood and treasure at the hands of you stained republicans has got to stop.
If it's really about fraud, why aren't absentee ballots covered by the voter ID laws?
Because of the handful of voter fraud cases, most are absentee ballots.
The reality is that it's not about fraud, it's about vote suppression, all gussied up and wrapped in a flag.
Elections are every 4 years, anybody interested in participate in the election process and exercise their right to vote , have time enough to get birth certificate, or any legal process to comply with the requirements in order to get an ID. No excuses.
Go to the Brennan Center website, look up The Truth About Voter Fraud. I hate doing research for other people. But for those of you who are too lazy to do it, the Brennan Center found that almost all instances of voter fraud reported by the media were made up, inflated, or due to mistakes by the voter, and not any intentional wrong-doing. Go check the article. It's 50 pages long, yes, but there's a nifty little table of contents section.
My 85 year old mother is not concerned with any of the items you listed. She is, however, concerned with the 15th amendment: The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
This issue is more complex than most of you realize. First and foremost a study performed by the Republican National Lawyers Association found that over TEN years there were 340 cases of IN-PERSON voter fraud. To put that in perspective, there have been nearly 500 MILLION votes cast in that time period. So that is a fraud rate of 0.00007%. Holy F-arino talk about over-reacting. Second of all, the voter ID laws do not, I repeat, do not prevent absentee voter fraud. This is a more likely arena for voter fraud.
These voter ID laws will adversely effect the ability of the elderly (who rarely leave the home due to ailments, lack of transportation, etc.) to be able to spend the time (2+ hours last time I went) in the DMV to obtain a new license or walker ID. The poor will be effected as well since they typically work hourly jobs where it is difficult to take time off. The most damning things about the voter ID laws are the fact that it is ignored after elections when there is more time for people to overcome the adversities that beset them when obtaining IDs.
Lastly,
Looks like the GOP is doing everything and anything to get Romney elected even if it violates the most basic right, voting, in a representative government… Talk about an ATTACK on democracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UehIqOg49P8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8
Can someone try to explain how the two links above DO NOT demonstrate a coordinated effort to suppress only DEMOCRATIC votes? How is this not considered treasonous?
And by the way, requiring an ID to vote sure sounds like government forcing you to do something. I thought the Right Wing was supposed to be against stuff like that?
Ok I admitt it the black panther comment was tongue in cheek. As far as me committing voter fraud in the last two elections I will say this, I have voted twice in the last two elections but I'm not sure if it is true voter fraud.
My point is democrats will only care if they are the ones losing votes, which is why no one cares about thugs outside a polling place, but want to vote without any proof of who you really are. My solution is if your state does not require you to show ID, and you know you can vote using someone elses Identity, do it. If dead people, felons, illegal aliens get to vote once I should get to vote at least twice. I'm not asking for new rules, just playing by the ones put in place.
We should make this voter ID crap the republicans waterloo. Completely anhialate the phony bastard party completely from the face of the earth. Idiots every one of em. Would not know honor if staring them straight in the face.
Why doesn't that elderly person get an absentee ballot, since they are so easy. If you are registered to vote you can simply request one be sent to your address, no ID, no money. Problem solved
It's called regulating, which Democrats are usually in favor of. The government has many different regulations for voting, must be a US citizen, must be over 18 years old, can not be a felon, can not be dead (unless chicago election), must be registered to vote, ect.. I don't think these things are to much to ask, and proving you are who you say you are is not that hard either.
One Citizen, One Vote!
Recently, there's been a lot said about voter registration, voter fraud and voter ID.
Previously, the US Supreme Court ruled, in an Indiana case, that states can require photo identification from voters. Not only should all states require a voter ID, we need to ensure that only eligible US citizens vote in order to prevent fraud.
It's about time we introduce a secure, tamper proof voter ID, like our neighbors to the South, in Mexico, are doing since 2004. It is difficult to believe that in our times a person can exist without an ID, for it’s necessary to get welfare benefits, food stamps, medicare benefits, unemployment benefits, even banking account…
"Mexico’s Instituto Federal Electoral (IFE) is an autonomous, non-partisan organization charged with ensuring free and fair elections.
In January, 2004, IFE entered into a four-year contract with Digimarc Corporation to design and supply secure, reliable voter ID cards to Mexican citizens in order to help ensure the ideal of “One Citizen, One Vote.”
In the three years since then, nearly 25 million credentials have been produced and Mexico’s voter ID card is now widely regarded as one of the most secure, reliable voter identification systems in the world.
So trusted is the integrity of Mexico’s voter ID credential that amid all the controversy surrounding the close presidential election on July 2, 2006, no one questioned the security, reliability, or authenticity of Mexico’s voter identification itself.
Indeed, Mexico’s voter ID has become the country’s de facto identification document and is readily accepted as positive proof-of-identity by merchants, banks, government officials, and citizens nationwide."
It's my opinion that we should communicate to our elected representatives that it's time they ensure
One Citizen, One Vote, and implement Federal, tamper-proof, Voter ID.
Wow, rocky etc etc, it didn't take long for me to find the most boorish, pointless, worthless comment of the day....embellished by awful spelling!
Oskar....just got off the phone with Secretary of State office on Mn. The convictions you stated.....actually only 132....not 243.... convictions of felons voted that should not have voted but....NOT counted as voter ID fraud. The Government does not have in place system, telling when felons regained citizen right to vote again. They all assumed they were reinstated. Some were actually told that.
Democrats and repubs put a bill in place to have each felon in future told when that right would be restored. Republican Gov. Pawlenty vetoed that bill, he would rather have felons not notified to continue the confusion. So according to the Secretary of State office of Mn, no fraud of voter ID. Error in everyones knowledge of when right to vote is allowed because the government does not have rules or plan to tell felons when actual time is restored.
Again, no voter id fraud as they represented themselves and no proof that they knew they should not have voted.
Well if you hadn't noticed from the headline of the article must Americans agree with Republicans on this issue. But I'm sure once you tell the worldyou want to commit genocide against them, everyone will see your true patriotic beliefs. KILL THOSE WHO DISAGREE! It's catchy, and much more truthful then hope and change.
REPUBLICANS WASTE BILLIONS TO SUPRESS DEMOCRAT VOTERS.
Republicans in 37 states have spent an average of 100 million per state, almost four billion tax dollars, on changing the voting system. They claim this is because Democrats cheat and vote illegally. Yet, almost NO voter fraud can be found in any state.
Read some facts, folks:
Study finds voter fraud nearly nonexistent
August 13, 2012|By Chris Durden | KWCH 12 Eyewitness News (WICHITA, Kan.) —
A new study finds in-person voter fraud is virtually nonexistent in the United States.
News21, a non-partisan project funded by the Carnegie and Knight foundations, conducted the study.
Researchers looked at the 2,068 reported cases of voter fraud since 2000 out of more than 600 million votes cast. The study found, "while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent."
So the next time a Republican claims to be fisically conservative, ask them how much they wasted on supressing votes!
VOTE THEM OUT OF CONGRESS!!! The party of "no" has got to go.
This is a made-up, faux rethug/teabag issue, plain, and simple. The is NO evidence of wide spread voter fraud in ANY state in America. Rethugs KNOW in order in win another federal election, THEY HAVE TO SUPPRESS VOTES. That's how busch/cheney got selected TWICE!!. I would be all for voter I.Ds for everyone, if the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT paid for these IDs. It must not turn into a POLL TAX (REMEMBER THOSE) that effect the most vulnerable of our citizens. It is funny how over 90% of rethug/teabag are all for the disenfranchisement of their fellow American citizens voting rights. That SPEAKS VOLUMES about that party!
Decide for yourself
Obama and Democrats seek to disenfranchise military voters! This is as low as you can get, you liberals support Obama and the democrats lawsuit against military voters? Sure you do, you lying, hypocrites.
On July 17th, the Obama for America Campaign, the Democratic National Committee, and the Ohio Democratic Party filed suit in OH to strike down part of that state's law governing voting by members of the military. Their suit said that part of the law is "arbitrary" with "no discernible rational basis."
Currently, Ohio allows the public to vote early in-person up until the Friday before the election. Members of the military are given three extra days to do so. While the Democrats may see this as "arbitrary" and having "no discernible rational basis," I think it is entirely reasonable given the demands on servicemen and women's time and their obligations to their sworn duty.
The National Defense Committee reports:
I think it's unconscionable that we as a nation wouldn't make it as easy as possible for members of the military to vote. They arguably have more right to vote than the rest of us, since it is their service and sacrifice that ensures we have the right to vote in the first place.
If anyone proposes legislation to combat voter fraud, Democrats will loudly scream that the proposal could "disenfranchise" some voter, somewhere. We must ensure, they argue, that voting is easy and accessible to every single voter. Every voter, that is, except the men and women of our military.
Make no mistake, the Democrat lawsuit is intended to disenfranchise some unknown number of military voters. The judge should reject it with prejudice.
The same head of republican party in MN who whined about none voter fraud issue resigned, Tony Sutton. Story from St Paul Pioneer press july 2012.
The state campaign finance board Friday levied $33,000 in civil fines against
Sutton, the party and Count Them All Properly for violating a law barring
corporate contributions to parties and for trying to circumvent a law requiring
disclosure of campaign contributions. The board left it to the city attorney to
consider criminal charges.
The board found that a GOP consultant registered Count Them All Properly as a
for-profit corporation shortly after the 2010 election. The corporation received
a $30,000 contribution a few months later and used the money to write $9,000
checks to each of the three law firms that represented the Republican Party in
the recount. The board ruled that the corporation was illegally paying the state
GOP's legal bills.
Dean said he filed a complaint with the administrative hearing office because
that's the first step toward bringing felony charges against alleged campaign
finance lawbreakers. If convicted, he said, the perpetrators could face up to 15
years in jail and a $60,000 fine.
Hey Logicrequired... Logic is important but faulty logic detracts from any point you might try to make. nothing to say about the videos I provided links for? Are you not concerned about attacks on the MOST BASIC principle of our democratic republic? Can you admit that the MAJOR reason for these laws IS, in fact, a blatant attempt (especially in Ohio) to restrict voter turnout for democrats?
Take your partisan blinders off....
"just last month Florida election officials were denied help by the feds to confirm citizenship status (and voter fraud) for an estimated 180,000 illegal immigrants already registered to vote in Florida."
"According to state records, Florida election officials have determined that massive voter fraud is taking place and that as many as 180,000 non-residents are registered to vote in the sunshine state, and it only came to the attention of state election officials early last year when the state’s DMV turned over a large data-set containing the population’s residency information. Upon sampling the data and running some preliminary checks, officials narrowed their estimate of illegally registered voters to 180,000"
Wow 180,000 in one state is a lot more then the one to two hundred number you guys have been throwing around. Try reading something that isn't a liberal rag.
@Rod Father: Thanks for the info...BTW in a discussion with a friend of mine he said he knew of someone in the country illegally who received a voters information packet (indicating he had registered to vote) although he swore he never registered...my friend believes this to be true because the person he knew had no reason, and nothing to gain, by making it up.
Perhaps some of the problem lies with unscrupulous registration efforts (the individual mentioned did NOT vote because he knew it was wrong to do so)!.
Sic---can you give a link to your info on the Rep. spending 4 billion to supress dum voters? I thought the party of NO was the dems from 2000-2008
Thank you for reinforcing my point.
Why not have it work like it does for your passport. Fill out the form (make them available in all libraries and post offices) and mail it in along with a picture. You could have those photo kiosks located in the same place as the voter forms. Enter your social security number into the machine and get one free ID photo a year. Put the two things together and mail it in or drop it off to an approved agency (DMV, post office, Vital records, etc.) Then they either mail it back to you or you wait and they hand it to you. Free of charge. Easy peasy.
C'mon people. We live in 2012. This is the digital age. We can't figure out a better way to register people to vote? One citizen = one vote. I've never been asked to show ID when I went to vote. They hand me the voter books and I point out my name.
Honestly if a person is not capable to get to a post office to get a photo voter ID card how the hell is he going to be able to make it to the poll to vote? Seriously.
Showing a valid photo ID to vote is a no brainer! What's the big deal? Why wouldn't you? You need a valid ID for everything these days so, again, what's the BIG DEAL???? Having an ID will prevent fraud while not having one certainly won't prevent fraud. The argument against them is just lame to say the least and, as usual, is supported by the left wing liberal loons who need those illegal votes to have any chance of winning.
Didi
Your arguement that people are unable top get picture ids like a Driver's Lisence or State ID card. Here are 2 examples:
1. My Father- in -law, who passed away a couple of months ago was born at home with no Doctor present. He never had a birth certificate as there was no hospital to issue one to his family. However,he was able to get a SS card, Drivers Lisence and Voter regristration card. He held onto those until the day he died.
2. I was born overrseas on a US Military base. Even though I was born in a hospital, Military Hospitals do not hand out Birth Certificates, instead we get what is called a "Report of US Citizen Born Overseas". I too have had no problems getting a SS card, Driver's Lisence or Voter's Regristration card.
3. Instead of being the part of the complaining crowd, help people out instead. They don't have a ride to pick up an id, give them one yourself. If they are in a nursing home, volunteer to help run an ID center there in order to get them their ids. As was mentioned earlier, a state offered to give people rides in order to get their free ids. They only had 25 people sign up.
So try again with how hard it is to get an id.
First of all I watched both videos and the first one had nothing to do with voter ID. I don't consider Rachel Maddow a credible source on anything but even if what she said was true it wouldn't be illegal and Voter ID would not have any affect one way or the other. The same could be said about Obama and the military vote like I mentioned earlier, so both sides are playing the same game.
Second video was a 13 second video showing me no context, or calrification on the topic. Selective editing is done on both sides using small sound bites, so I find nothing here to mean anything.
I will not admitt voter ID laws are made to restrict voter turnout because everyone including republican voters have to provide ID not just democrats. The law is equal across the board for everyone. Your argument that these people who were able to register to vote, fill out forms for housing, utilities, education, can't come up with some form of ID to vote is a joke.
The attack is coming from people who would like to cheat an election, being made to show you are who you say you are is not hurting democracy it is protecting it. Can you tell me one reason why I should be able to walk into a voting place and not show any identification but be allowed to vote just because I say I'm somebody? There will be voter fraud and yes the numbers convicted will be low becaue it will be impossible to catch anyone. Why is it I have to prove who I am for everything else, but when it comes to voting anyone can take my identity and say they are me without showing any proof. That is insane, and does not protect my rights.
So is the right to bear arms. Are you suggesting we not require IDs to purchase guns as well? Because it's the exact same logic. How is the gov't supposed to know who has what rights and who doesn't if you can't prove who you are. There is nothing in the constitution that says people who are simply standing on American soil are subject to EVERY single right that is written for its citizens.
You already have a way to vote when you are out of state. It is called a mail in ballot. I used them all the time when I was out of state at college. So tell me again how a voter ID would prevent this process that has already existed for years?
Face it. The only people that would be affected are the ones that don't have photo IDs. Those people can't do much else without one, so this is only really affecting procrastinators. How many of them truly get up to vote anyway?
LogicRequired -
Do you know why when linked with DMV there were nearly 180,000 inaccuracies in the voter registrar records? It is not because there are 180,000 ILLEGALS registered. It is because Florida is one of the states with the highest margin of dual-home ownerships in the nation. These are people who are BORN IN AMERICA, are legal citizens, and have a second home in Florida. That is what the initial report was based upon and conveniently falls under the label of voter fraud. These people have migrated to Florida from New Jersey, New York, and all along the upper Eastern Coast and choose to spend winters in Florida, hence, have a drivers license issued in their (first) home state, but register to vote in Florida because that is where they are living also in November. The Hypothesis that "illegal aliens" are hijacking elections in Florida is ridiculous.
Do some people commit voter fraud by trying to vote more than once, sure.....people have blatantly admitted to it on this newsvine discussion, actually bragged about it. This is not a Republican issue or a Democratic issue, it's a voting rights issue.
You know, all it takes to register for selective service (which is still required by law for young men age 18-25) is filling out a card at the local post office and dropping it in the box. And BRAVO, you get a 'draft card" in the mail. Even immigrants, including illegal aliens, refugees, and men in this country on green cards are required under federal law to register for selective service (even-though there has been no draft in this country since the early 70's). Did you also know that currently in our military, serving in Iraq and Afghanistan the state department has revealed that 30,000 troops have or are serving in war zones with Green cards, yet they are not allowed to vote in the country they are serving.
The Military DOES get ample opportunity to vote. They begin getting their absentee ballots 3 months prior to elections. None of our countries Armed Forces are denied the right to vote or don't have ample time to vote, the only ones who don't get a vote are those serving our country with a Green Card.
Did any of you even read this? Having a law that says you need an ID is completely in line with the constitution. You can get an ID no matter what race, color, or pervious condition of servitude, therefore it is completely legal.
This is a two way street, we know fraud exist to some degree, so why not fix it before it gets out of hand. if you don't have what it takes to get a simple ID card then its obvious you don't have what it takes to vote. the only disenfranchised people will be the ones that don't bother to get the ID, and they are probably not going to vote anyways. and just who are these people that cant prove who they are? don't they need to prove who they are to get benefits? don't they need to prove who they are to register to begin with? what if they need to cash a check, enter a bar, buy a pack of cigarettesor a bottle of Mad Dog 2020? hell illegals manage to get drivers licenses that are legal, and you are telling me that some minority person will be disenfranchised BS with all the government agencies we have to assist people this should not be a problem its just another excuse to not comply. if you can't prove who you are then you should not be eligible for any entitlement programs, I lost my ID once and it was hell to replace but I managed to do so and the time I was without it I could not function, how do these people function? you can't do anything without a picture ID in this society? its time they grow up and get a picture ID, then maybe they can get out of the house and find a job. if you can not prove you are a US citizen then what are you doing voting in the first place, why are you even living in this country? the only reason a person would not have a ID is because they don't want to and that is no excuse. its 2012 not 1776 go get your ID.
They can make this free and easy by just doing this electronically. everyone has there picture taken when they register to vote and when they go to vote the picture can be accessed at the voting precinct, with the last 4 digits of their social security no# problem solved, now whats next.
They require Caucasians to show a picture ID WHY NOT ALL OTHER RACES? I think you should have to show a picture ID to vote or get food stamps or medicare. You should have to prove you are a citizen to vote. PERIOD. You only have that right if you are.
Again.....the lead into this story links the same discussions said the other day with the posted studies saying that no voter id laws are needed. In other words repubs removing the right of dems to vote.
Lorraine Mn repubs have words written in new bill that voter id must be presented when vote is counted. All mail in ballots would be void because you have to be present. They say it can be changed later and or doesn't mean anything.....yeah until it is a dem ballot then it won't count! They did not establish what the voter id will be or who will pay for all of it. Scam all the way. Millions to be spent on non issue in each state.
Obama doesn't like it cause it would limit voter fraud. Therefore Eric will not uphold it or even block it. Thats the way this administration works. See the diffinition of Chicago style politics - my way or highway...
Change...pfffft
Lorraine,
I'm sorry Lorraine, but that is not correct. It may be a true statement but that is not the case in this situation. The problem is simple and could be solved if Homeland Security worked with Florida to help them quickly determine the citizenship status of those on the list and put the issue to rest, but they don't help Florida knowing it will allow for thousands of potential votes that should not be allowed.
SO How did this happen, you ask?
Florida’s Motor Voter Act of 1993 (which most states have some form of!) PROHIBITED even asking immigration status when an individual filled out their voter registration form while FAILING to require proof of citizenship!
One Naples voter admitted to NBC-2 Tampa reporter Andy Pierrotti that she was not a U.S. Citizen NOR A LEGAL IMMIGRANT – election records show she voted six times in the past eleven years!
This same investigation revealed Florida county supervisors of elections have no way to verify citizenship and are not required to ask for proof! Not having access to official state records, NBC-2 investigators were only able check a very small sample of “jury excusal” forms and cross-checking those where a person said they couldn’t serve because they were not U.S. Citizens with names in the database of Florida registered voters.
The office of Ken Detzner, Florida’s Secretary of State, says the Obama administration has been ignoring their repeated requests for access to Department of Homeland Security (DHS) databases that will allow them to quickly determine the citizenship status of those on the list and put the issue to rest. But the Obama administration doesn’t want that.
What is so hard to understand about it? Photo ID
This could put a damper on the Dems plan to launch "rock the illegal vote"
Chicago is known for having the worst voter fraud in the country. It is legendary for dead people voting, and which party gained from these practices? Democrats. By not allowing voter ID laws you are admitting that you want to cheat, that you want as many illegals, felons, and dead people to vote as possible. You are admitting that you don't care who shows up at the polls as long as they can check a box. If elections become just another scam in this country it won't be worth the dirt it sits on. Are we just another banana republic, just another pretend Democracy / Republic? It sure is beginning to look like it.
mitko,
so you will be happy to go door to door to make sure EVERY eligible american has a picture id right? if the voter laws in some of these states were required here, I wouldn't be allowed to vote! my birth certificate does NOT have an embossed state seal. i just sent for it a few years ago because the copy i had was a simple copy of a type written form from Nebraska. guess what i got? another copy of a type written form! no state seal! so, how could i vote if i needed to show a birth certificate, sealed in the envelope that had a state seal? my family has been in this country for more than 300 years. i couldn't be more american unless i was an indigenous native! but, i wouldn't be allowed to vote?
all of you who think that we have SUCH a problem, don't tell me YOU did it. i'm not impressed. in order to have REAL voter fraud amongst individual voters you would have to have a organized plot by thousands of people to actually affect an outcome. that JUST ISN'T HAPPENING! SHOW US THE PROOF that there is rampant voter fraud going on this country!!!!!! show us! show us election after election that has been affected by one idiot (like you logic) or another claiming they commited voter fraud. if that is true, by the way, logic, the people who regulate this blog should be obligated to turn you over to authorities, because you're admitting to committing a felony. i would turn you in. after all, we don't want people voting fraudulently, do we?
i agree, the problem with voting in this country isn't the individual voter, it is the system itself with polling places being run by and regulated by partisan groups. all polling places should be overseen by independent organizations like the guys who oversee voting at the oscars. waterhouse or whatever their name is. when the attorney general of a state who is an elected official is in charge, how are we supposed to trust that person to be fair. we might, if they were not allowed to be affiliated with anything in their party at any time before or after their election. but, that isn't going to happen. and we're not going to turn our polling over to independent overseers.
the whole idea behind voting is that it is a personal, local ideal that people go out and have their voices heard. you have to show your id when you register. that should be enough. if you move and have to re-register, you have to show your id again. that's the way it should be. maybe we should create a better system of keeping track of voters, such as when a person dies and his/her name is registered as deceased with the social security, it would also be sent immediately via the internet to the voting database and that person's name would be removed. name with ss#. then you wouldn't have dead peoples' names. if you become a felon, your name should be entered into the voter database so that you can't register, then you couldn't vote. if we kept better records of SS#s in this country you'd have fewer people able to use stolen ids. we don't NEED more ids. we need to better control the ones we have now.
i had to get my mother a state id when she moved here so i could take care of her. she doesn't drive, she doesn't walk, she never had a job, she has trouble holding a pen or pencil, she cannot stand without help. it took me digging up her marriage certificate before she could get an id. on by the grace of god did she still have it. what if she had not had it anymore? my mother would suddenly be a non person and in your universe no longer eligible to vote. well, until this year, it would have backfired on all you right wing radicals, because my mom was a repubican. i think, you should be careful what you ask for. you're not just going to be taking the vote away from the minorities, you may be cutting off your nose to spite your face. this will just encourage more people to vote via the mail and there is more fraud going on there than in person, although even that fraud is negligible. oh! and by the way, my mom's id was NOT FREE!
if i hadn't been able to help her, she would be left out. she probably has more right to vote than most of you. her family has been here for hundreds of years just like my dad's. she has never broken the law or even tried. she's a bright, honest, patriotic american and you would take away her RIGHT and it is a right, because she didn't have her picture on some card? well, we're not mexico that was so rampant with fraud that they had to do something and forcing individuals to get an id does NOTHING to stop fraud at the city, state and federal level. just go back and review the election of 2000. it will go down in history as the worst election in history for fraud, mark my words.
denver bill 2
Thank you for reinforcing my point.
Yeah Denver...I don't have a problem w/ US citizens voting...problem is it's tooeasy for illegals and unregistered people to just walk in and do it.....Dems are more concerned w/ disafranchizment rather than voter fraus because there banking on ilegals swing the vote in places like florida arizona and texas. If you have to show your ID to board a plane, or buy booze or if you need an ID to drive I don't see why you can show it to a voting poll to prove your a registered US citezen.
denver bill 2
Renting a car? Hell, Ive got to show a picture ID in order to rent a machine to clean my rug.
Sorry but it's hard to imagine just exactly what sort of person is unable to acquire an ID but still manages to vote. If you can't manage one it seems unlikely that you'll bother with the other either. Of course these "too lazy to think for themselves" types are an important constituency for the dems since all you have to do is offer them a ride to the polling place and they'll vote a straight ticket for the dems. Which is of course the reason liberals oppose it. I've yet to have a single person here on the Vine clamouring about voter suppression offer any real examples of such. Seems "voter suppression" is even more rare a thing than is "voter fraud".
alessa, do you have a job, or do you collect welfare?
If there are 180,000 people in Florida committing voter fraud which party are they voting for again? Which party has been cheated out of winning elections? It would require logic to figure out and a look back at history. Seems like every time there is a close race a R wins for some reason...hmm.
Florida is a messed up state, not only are there tons of people with homes in other states, but other countries too. Check the residency of many Israeli citizens and they will have Florida or New York listed as a place of residence so they can vote in our country's elections too since they have duel citizenship with BOTH countries. These states have some of the best systems/laws for absentee ballots is all.
What happens if Mitt does win? WTF is going to change? Is the debt going to magically disappear? Jobs going to magically be created out of thin air? Nothing is going to change. In the end the mega rich cannot keep all the money they have acquired. They will have to pay some of it back or else there will be riots and war. Why do I have to end up killing someone in the end to survive? I wonder how much they have spent already just this election? At what point does it just become easier to just pay your taxes, fair capital gains rates, etc. since we are only arguing over approx. 5% of the population. 1% to 2% at the top versus the 8% to 9% that are unemployed.
Sorry to say, but there needs to be some people that are unemployed like the people that are taking care of our children, that is a job in itself. I very important one I might add that saves society tons and tons of money. Instead both parents work to chase after material things that they don't really need, but have been brainwashed into chasing after while the children suffer. You have to keep up with the family next door...
This could take a very interesting turn, really. Progressive groups are targeting the people we/they believe will be disenfranchised by these laws, and literally taking them around to the places they need to go to get IDs. That leaves the low-information right voters to do it for themselves. I wonder how many stupid republicans will be turned away on election day? Hopefully this will turn around and bite the rethugs in the @ss just like every thing else they've tried to do over the last 2 years.
Tired-2176559
Then you are in favor of photo ID?
One of the problems with voter ID laws is that they limit the type of ID allowable. Why wouldn't a college id (even from a state school) not be allowed? If the student is not registered at the school address they will not be listed on the registered rolls and only allowed to complete a provisional ballot which gets checked to see if they should be voting there. But republicans know that students tend to vote democratic. This is why gun permits are allowed because republicans know that gun owners tend to vote republcian.
If you are already registered to vote, shouldn't any ID be acceptable?
There have only been a very tiny number of voter fraud cases that occurred at the polls where an ID would come into play. Don't agree? Please show me some citations.
Culheath...you are correct - Driving a car, cashing a check, boarding a plane, buying alcohol & cigarettes, opening a bank account, etc. are not RIGHTS.
And, because it's a RIGHT, no I.D. should be required.
So...applying your logic, NO ONE should be required to show an I.D. to buy a FIREARM. Afterall, the SCOTUS has ruled that a person has a RIGHT to own firearms under the 2nd Amendment (of that pesky Bill of Rights)
Question to you is, how would we know whether a person voted only once, or if a person voting was a resident of that state (Kansas City, Mo. is a bridge across the river from Kansas City, Ks), or if they were of legal age, or a legal citizen of the USA, if there were not some form of I.D?
The U.S. Constitution gives the RIGHT, and the authority to hold & run elections, to the states. The SCOTUS has ruled that it is REASONABLE that states require voters to have an I.D.
What's really at play here is that Obama's DOJ is setting up a premise for lawsuits and litigation charging voter intimidation should Obama lose the election. If he wins, you won't here another thing about it.
Not likely hehe
It amazes me that the people commenting about preventing voter fraud all sound the same, use the same arguments, and hardly back up their claims, when the vast majority of evidence shows theirs no real problems. I've read and heard stories on every media outlet, and the only one who's still worried about fraud is, of course, Fox News.
It amazes me that none of you conservative commenters are pissed at how much Republicans are spending to fix a non-existent problem while at the same time continuing to push the narrative that liberals spend too much. Remember, too, that the other issue Republicans are throwing most of their money at is the marriage issue. How are either of these things helping improve the economy of America again?
Denver Bill, your experience is so limited. You are saying anybody (like the Amish, maybe) who don't smoke, drink, drive, fly, write or cash checks, rent boats, hunt, fish or plan protests is simply a deadbeat who cares nothing about voting.
You lead a sheltered life, Denver. You should get out and smell the roses once in a while.
Albert Einstein definitely drank and occasionally flew, but didn't need ID to do either.
I'm betting that flying is the only qualification that Romney exhibits in your list. Accountants take care of writing checks, and driving would be too distracting.
Just how does smoking and drinking bring enlightenment to your voting priviledge?
Does hunting provide insight into national defense?
Does writing and cashing checks make one an expert in financial policy?
Does fishing teach one the value of researching problems?
It amazes me that the Dems are so adamant about no photo ID hehe. Just the passion of the resistance to this alone raises my suspicions as to why. It is not the disenfranchisement of minorities, you need an ID for a job, for social program assistance ect. It cant be the cost...so it leaves me to wonder what is to gain by the Dems. Using logic, I determine that it must be the disenfranchisement of the illegal minority. And this I would agree with.
Kornfed- you need a Social Security Card for a job. A Social Security card has no photo. It should never be a hassle to vote in this country. If you need a photo ID from say, motor vehicle to vote, then you need to go there stand in line and pay probably $50 or more for the piece of plastic that you will get in the mail 4-6 weeks later. If you don't have an official birth certificate with the raised seal, you will need to order that from vital records. Add another 8 weeks and $15.
It should never cost the citizen a nickle to vote under any circumstances. Not one red cent. Not even so he or she can gather the documents needed to show they are indeed the person who registered.
@culheath #1.2
It is my right to own a firearm, too, but I have to show ID and pass a background check to exercise that that right.
So what you are saying is, that I, do not nor, should I be required, to to show ID when I purchase a gun in any state in the Union, which should have identical gun laws, since my right to keep and bear arms is not only a right at the state level, but also at the federal level. (at least according to the SCOTUS)
For all the rest of you, See if you can find a copy of "How to Lie With Statistics" by Darrell Huff published by W.W. Norton & Co. Inc NY, NY 1954
If an election official can't ask you for ID, proof of citizenship, then how would they be able to show their is voter fraud? It's funny because democrats make it so you can can commit voter fraud without being questioned, then come out and say since no one was caught it must not be happening.
By this logic I'm willing to bet if I told cops they couldn't check drivers blood alcohol levels the number of DUI's would probably go down to where there isn't even a problem with drinking and driving.
Is voting a Right?
Yes.
But just because it is a Right doesn't absolve you from responsibility. In order to vote you need to meet 3 requirements.
1. 18 years of age
2. Citizen of the United States
3. Meet the requirements of your State of residence
All three of these require some degree of responsibility to prove. As a nation we have a responsibility to make sure that every CITIZEN of AGE and meeting the REQUIREMENTS of the State meets those responsibilities.
Our Right to vote is NOT simply an event we can participate in at specific times, you need to register. If there is no burden of proof on the person registering the essential benefit of those 3 requirements is lost.
As citizens, our ability to vote is the most fundamentally important Right we have. If you demand yourself to meet the basic requirements it should follow that you demand EVERYONE do the same. If the State requires photo ID proof, then that is the demand required of all citizens of that State.
As citizens we should all be concerned that only those eligible vote. Just because you are here does not give you the Right to vote. You need to prove your eligibility. This is called personal responsibility. The Right to vote has come about with much effort. From the 15th Amendment to the Voter Rights Act of 1965 it has been a struggle for many.
Today voting has become even more convoluted because of absentee voting. In many states the period varies between 4 and 50 days. Along with this we have created more confusion with multiple voting machines from mechanical, electromechanical and electronic equipment. As much as we would all like to believe that these things make our elections easier it also opens the door to more fraud.
It’s time we as citizens demand that every vote cast is by those meeting the above requirements. Your drivers license requires a picture to verify your identity. If this weren’t important it wouldn’t be included. For obvious reasons it is.
Every two years we have the opportunity to vote (absent special elections), this should give ample time to register and to obtain a photo ID. This is only common sense.
Hal-2824511
I needed one for my job. This leads me to my next point. SSC's have been stolen left and right by illegals in order to obtain these jobs. This leads right to the heart of the matter in my eyes. Right to the heart of why Dems are so concerned about photo ID
identification card. thats one. and for 2: your voters id card has your name, your address and your birthday on it so how in the hell can somebody walk in and claim they are you. these people have their voters id card already but they are being required to show extra identification and this is the problelogic reqiired: for one you cannot just walk into any place that allows you to vote without having a voters m. you and oskar are seriously pissing me off with your illogical statements and illogical examples. all states require you to have your voters identification card and that alone is all they should require. where in the hell have you been that they just actually let you walk in and vote without your voters id card? there is not one place in the united states of america that will just you or anybody else to walk in and vote without a voter's id card. another thing people are not trying to cheat or commit voters fraud just because they feel like they shouldnt need to have a photo id in order to vote which is their constitutional right. and i do agree.
your voters id card has all the information they need in order for you to vote. it is not necessary to require a photo id. the ignorant ass racsist ass people on here are sincerely starting to piss me off. they filled out the necessary documents in order to register to vote and obtain their voters id card so how in the hell are these people lazy? this is for every last one of you that posted a racist ass or a very offensive ass statement. this is voters suppression which is a viloation of their constitutional right.and the republicans know this and dont give a rats ass about it either.
now for the next one that staed that thought the dems were the party of no, are you serious? you know damn well the republicans are of the party of no. they dont women to have to the right to earn equal pay as their male co-workers, have the right to use birth control to prevent pregnancy or the right to do whatever they hell they want with their body, they dont want women to even have the right to have a say so in poloitics, let alone vote, so please how in the hell did you ever come to that conclusion. they dont even want to help out the little people who honeslty need those government programs that are in place to help them. they say no to all these things and the dems say yes. so there is no way between heaven and hell you could ever fix your mouth to say the dems are the party of no. republicans have that titled all sewed up. no rights for anybody except rich white men. they honestly believe that white males are the only people who deserve the right to do as they please. and like the author of the article was saying. all of the people that are conservatives are racists just like the repubs or conservatives whichever one you wish to call them.
but of course they are, because republicans are very racist and they are very sexists. and they want to control every aspect of every citizen's life as if the are god. and they are from my heavenly father. they are exactly what my lord and savior jesus christ called the pharaseeds and the saduceeds: "a brood of vipers." they want to oppress the american people just like the religious pharaseeds and saduceeds opress the townspeople back in the bible days in the new testament. and who in their right mind would desire to live like that? the townspeople didn't even want to live in those conditions orppressed by religious ass laws that infringed upon ther god given rights while they lived as they pleased. thats why the lord gives you freewill so nobody will be forced to choose him. in other words he felt the need to create freewill so you have the freedom to choose to serve him and live for him and not feel obligated to do so. which is a concept is your religious ass snake ass party dont understand or just simply flat out ass ingoring this fact in order to accomplish their evil ass agenda. but then again all you racist bigots who are religous fanatics are the exact same way and believe the exact same thang. you all have sincerely pissed me off which is why i typed this message in all caps and said everything i said.
as one other person sated this will be the party that will soon be incorporating the mark of the beast for these same identification purposes. a microchip implanted inside every willing citizen stupid enough to belive the identification bull@!$%#. so it does bewho everyone out there to not vote their evil asses in office. because i just saidis their agenda and they want to get rid of the dollar bill as a us currency so they can start asap assinging and handing out the mark. this is not a lie and i am not crazy. there is proof to back umake no mistake about it, th
sweetcancer2485,
Really? Well tell that to Eric Holder who had this undercover guy go into his precinct and was able to vote using Eric Holders name. Video for your enjoyment.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/04/09/Okeefe-Holder
ROFLMAO - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, HEHEHEHEHEHEHE!
Thank you sweet cancer, you were able to put every stupid liberal lie into one long incoherent, crazy, illiterate rant. Nobody can top this so I'm afraid I may not post much more today.
I never had a bank account,never had a car,cash my check at the deli,never flown on a plane etc: Everything I want in my neighborhood. I can go to the beach without a car ,cleaners,pharmacy,my doctor, etc:I only carry my medicare card and $20. when I go out. I voted for LBJ in 1964. We don't have that photo ID law in my state, We've never had all of that voter fraud in my state.
Mitko Pitko has interesting posts at 1.86 and 1.107. Please read'em. Then think about using that id and extending its use as proof of citizenship to help with the illegal immigrant problem, eligibility for social security and medicare (Obamacare), and to help prevent identity theft.
Everyone would be issued the card, free of charge, when they turn 18 and register for the draft and voting (mandatory), or when they become a legal citizen. It could be used to replace green cards as well. Perhaps the card would need to be renewed periodically at the DMV (I know, its not a license) to prevent a dead person from collecting benefits for an identity thief or voting long after death.
If the repubs want to do this, they should do it the right way and the same way across the nation. Having different rules in every state is a recipe for disaster. Repeal all current attempts by states to stop people from voting and make it a priority item for the next congress.
All those things the first writer mentioned are all middle class mostly white wants or needs. If someone lives in the middle of New York and has no car and doesn't smoke or hunt would have no need of that ID. And it is those people who vote mostly Democratic that the Republicans have focused on to make it harder for them to vote. It is clearly a political issue, rather than worries about people breaking voting laws. The voter ID is a farce and is an attack on the right to vote.
also i meant to write there is proof to back up everything im saying but my computer was messing up. i meant to say make no mistake about it, it is their intention to start assigning and handing out the mark of the beast which is a microchip with a number on it that does equal 666 which is the makr of the beast. why do you honestly think they were doing everything in their power to fight president obama on bailout wall street and the banks? so they could start that bull@!$%# asap. this is why they want to pass laws that infringe on our constitutional rights so they move ahead with their evil ass agenda. we will not be able to defend ourselves or and have no laws to protect us once they get rid of our constitutional rights. you can be delusional al you want. but facts are facts. and they need to be faced. you do not want republicans running this country. i can promise you that. im not rying to scare anybody but truth is truth. becasue first they are going to get rid of your freedom of religion which is what this abortion and birth control thing all about, attacking your first amendment right to practice whatever religion you want to and so a woman will not have the right to do what she pleases with her body, and destroying your right to free speech so you will not have the right to speak out against them, your right to privacy, so they can spy on you and make damn sure youre only practicing the religion they have put in place for you to practice, and the right to bear arms so you cannot defend yourself against the military troops that they are going to put in front of our homes once they get rid of the amending about the goverment not having the right to quarter troops in the homes of it citizens and of cousrse they gone have a bull@!$%# excuse for this @!$%# to to cover up their real agenda and the real reason why they are there, so we will be like those other countries totally defenesless against a corrupt ass government cause they are probalbly the ones funding the anti-gun organiztion that is probalbly behind all these mass shootings, so they can pass a bill getting rid of that amendent, i mean the list goes on. everything that i have read all makes sense now. because their probably was an organization behind these last three senseless shootings. they anti-gun would be behind these in order to push their agenda for stircter gun control laws or to abolish the second amendment all together so we cannot obtain firearms no longer. and thier funding has to come from somewhere and where exactly do you all think its coming from? dont be stupid. please open your eyes and your mind. they really are trying to bring us into this new world order. and at first i didnt want to believe it either until i startred doing research and watching movies and paying attention to what cnn, mnsbc, and all the other unbaised informative newsstaions started reporting about the republican party and what all they were doing and their secret agenda. so all of it is true and just like jeff daniels said on the newsroom, we all should be scared @!$%#less. the tea party or the republican party is a very dangerous party to have in office and if you really care about your rights and your future then will you do your research and you will not vote these evil @!$%#s in office.
I meant stricter and not the word i typed. sorry catching my typos. This is just the beginning. believe me. they are soon going to start asking for ids for everything only it will no longer be a photo id.
Oh sweet cancer! You should capitalize the first word of every sentence. I am a little afraid of you. sshhhhh... Don't tell anybody but I'm in on the conspiracy. Once the Republicans take over the Great Dark Lord will rise from the pits of Hades and ascend the throne of Night to rule supreme for all of eternity and NEVER will you ever see gummy bears again!!! All hail the Dark One!!! Your random movies and unbiased CNN and MSNBC can't help you!!! Bwahahaha! Bwahahaha!
Here's the wake up call for both sides: it DOES happen and many people simply are not caught (and the point of not being caught is that it can't be PROVEN so do not ask for proof), but it will always lean in favor of whatever side the frauds want it to, be it Republican or Democrat.
Here's the point everyone knows, but is too afraid to say: if Obama wins, the right will continue to cry about voter fraud and if Romney wins, the left will then complain about voter fraud (and many will just be on the "goes around, comes around" bus, but the majority will believe it).
Does any of it even matter? No, because unless you haven't been paying attention to even MSNBC's own writings, you'd realize that there is no individual vote that matters anymore. Illegal immigrant, absentee ballots, voter registration, it's all just to let you believe you have the power to make a change.
The ultimate goal: you don't have control in any election, popular or electoral. Be it big business, special interest, other firm or a combination of the previously stated, the individual does not control the vote anymore.
In the end, you have two choices: go out and vote and live the lie that you are making a difference or wake up to the fact that neither of the major parties care about you the individual anymore. Yes liberals, that very much does include the Democrat party. See Obama in his $20,000 a ticket shindig partnered with the likes of George Clooney and Sarah Jessica Parker.
@J E BURTON
That's interesting. Now why don't you explain why you won't or can't get an ID. Is voting such an insignificant thing to you that you can't be unconvinced JUST ONCE in your life in order to do so?
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you didn't register to vote in your neighborhood so in all likelihood you've already inconvenienced your self one time, so if you were willing to do it then why not again now?
JQ - I hope you realize that by failing to ignore the obviously demented ramblings of Cancer and letting the plan slip out you are now subject to retribution from the minions of the Great Dark Lord. The Angels of the Republic will likely pay you a visit and drag you screaming into the pit where your skin will be flayed from your body.... before they begin the real torture...... Bwahahaha!!!!!
Logic.... It doesn't matter what you think of rachel maddow because, unlike your right-wing-nut news she actually provides you with her source information so the viewer can look it up themselves. Your quotes are from where? Rick Scott won his battle to use the DHS db of non-citizens to purge anyone with a similar name off of the voting roles. This database is NOT meant for this purpose because the information is out of date, misspellings and contains KNOWN false positives thereby creating confusion. This adversely affects the latino (which romney has NO chance of winning) voting contingent because of similarity in names. This is 2000 (katherine harris) all over again.
So, just to be clear here, you think that allowing ONLY republican leaning districts in Ohio to have more time to vote than democratic leaning districts is OK. You are naive and/or traitorous if you think that is fair. The second video is NOT edited and spliced (unlike what the ads by the romney/ryan campaign)... google Mike Turzai and you can listen for yourself from a "trusted source".
Damn, I always do that. The Dark Lord is always like, don't screw up this time and I'm like, I know, I won't, Gosh get off my back. And then I do it again. He's gonna take my xbox.
Sweetcancer,
You are scaring people but not in the way you think.
I meant then you will do your research. Just caught that one. Let me go back up and catch the rest of them. LOGIC REQUIRED: For one I did make some mistakes i was typing entirely too fast. So you have me on thet, But illiterate rant i dont think so. I can read and write very ell and besides i didn't make up any illogical stories to get my point across. And for 2. what i said is very true and their are facts to porove everything I just said. You can believe whatever the you want. That is your right. And another thing like I stated I dont believe you. You cannot walk in any place in the United States of America without your voters id card and vote. Your story has no credibility. Everything I said can be proven. And im glad your ignorant ass is through posting for the day. You are an ignorant ass bigot also. So if you are done, thank you so much. And i also ment to say problem but my computer was messing up which is the reason that the message posted, while i was trying my best to correct my comment, in editing mode.
My main point was this, damn near every evil act or every scandal that goes down, republicans are behind it every single time. It never fails. Like clockwork these evil son-of-bitches are behind it every single time. It doesn't make since to keep voting this sexist ass racist ass party in office. They really do not want any women nor any minorities to have any rights. The anti-gay anti abortion is just a smokescreen. They just want to limit are personal freedoms for their political agenda. That's why they are really opposed to a woman having the right to have an abortion and a man having the right to marry another man. It has absolutely nothing to do with their beliefs. They just don't want Americans enjoying the rights and the freedom we have now.
And earlier I meant to say that's why they were against President Obama bailing out the banks and bailing out Wall Street. There are documents to back this up Logic Required. It is not a lie and it is not a joke. But off course you don't want to believe that about your beloved Republican party. But the truth is the truth. They do not mean anybody any good, including those stupid enough to vote for them. They figure if you cannot see through their bull@!$%# by looking past the religious bull@!$%# that they are spinning, then why should they get a legitimate platform to run on, why discuss relevant important issues, when they can get elected on attacking personal freedoms for bull@!$%# ass reasons by @!$%#s like you, that don't know any better but should. They count on ignorant ass racist ass rednecks, much like yourself, to vote them in office, then when they are in office they go ahead with their wicked ass agenda, and little by little turn America into another third world country. Where the citizens of that country have no rights and the government doesn't give a rats ass about them. That is exactly what they are trying to do here in America. The only people that will have rights and say so in any thing that goes on in this country are rich white males. And everybody else that does not fall in this category will be up @!$%# creek. This is your party's agenda. You and I both know that. So you can live in denial all you want to.
This is the other phrase I meant to correct earlier. I meant to say you can be delusional all you want to but the facts are the facts. My bad for those typos.
I just sincerely hope you are not poor white trash deluded into believing that they actually care about you becasue you are one of them. They dont give a damn about you because you are white. Your ass is poor and they have no intentions on helping your poor white ass out. If you are poor and white, then in their eyes you are equal to women and minorities, and therefore you do not matter whatsoever. They want to get rid of all government programs that is now in place to help out anybody who needs help, not just blacks and hispanics, like these racist ass white people would have you to believe. That means if you were to loos your job you would no longer be able to draw unemployment. Unemployment is a governement program that was implemented by the democrats for peole who lost their jobs for unfair reason. So all of you deluded white people who think that welfare is the only government assistance program, you better think again. It does include social securtiy benefits, medicare and medicaid, and unemployment. So you all better hope like hell they don't get in office because if they do you will seriously regret it.
How does not hearing much about voter ID laws mean they don't understand the issue? Perhaps they don't have it framed by the Democrats and MoveOn, but they understand the importance of ensuring that only elibile voters are allowed to vote.
Noticing a trend here. Republicans admitting THEY are the ones committing voter fraud.
Not surprising. Experts have said that absentee ballots have the greatest potential for fraud. Those same absentee ballots which always seem to be in the republicans favor.
Now that the Republicons have implemented laws to prevent voter fraud, when are they going to pass laws against vampires biting people's necks? Vampire attacks are almost as common as voter ID fraud. There have been zero instances of voter impersonation at polling places.
But to prevent against this virtually nonexistent crime, the Republicons will disenfranchise an estimated 700,000 people in Pennsylvania alone. And that's not some liberal spin, that's the estimated number of people in PA. who don't have the necessary photo IDs. The reason the Repubs need these laws is because they can't win elections fair and square when they've got miserable candidates like Romney; they have to steal elections.
Colorado-Man
If people are ignorant of the facts that voter impersonation is virtually nonexistent, and several million legal voters in the U.S. don't have the required photo IDs and will have considerable difficulty getting them, then they don't understand the issue.
As has been pointed out, the REAL voter fraud occurs in absentee ballots, but the Republicons don't want to do anything about it because the absentee ballot fraud benefits them.
Logic.... It doesn't matter what you think of rachel maddow because, unlike your right-wing-nut news she actually provides you with her source information so the viewer can look it up themselves. Yea she sends you to the leftist sites she gets her junk from, again nothing credible.
Your quotes are from where? My only quote was from a NBC-2 Tampa, a local station that did it's own investigation and had a women admit she voted as an illegal.
Rick Scott won his battle to use the DHS db of non-citizens to purge anyone with a similar name off of the voting roles. This database is NOT meant for this purpose because the information is out of date, misspellings and contains KNOWN false positives thereby creating confusion. This adversely affects the latino (which romney has NO chance of winning) voting contingent because of similarity in names. This is 2000 (katherine harris) all over again. Florida asked the Feds for help and were told no. No you can't see who is legal and who is illegal, so Florida in response said if your one of these 180,000 people you need to come and prove your legal status to vote or you will be taken off the rolls. The feds could have made many of these people who could be varified as citizens allowed to stay registered but they (obama and company) choose to not help so everyone gets screwed.
So, just to be clear here, you think that allowing ONLY republican leaning districts in Ohio to have more time to vote than democratic leaning districts is OK. I think everyone and every district should be given the same time to vote. Every Ohio voters can vote for 35 days before an election 24 hours a day from anywhere and then simply drop off their ballot, I don't know what extended hours Republicans get that Democrats don't get, but if you can't find time to vote in a 35 day 24 hours a day period you got other issues.
You are naive and/or traitorous if you think that is fair. I just said it would not be fair, but I don't think it would suppress any voting (35 days to vote). You and others have said there hasn't been but a few voter fraud cases so it's not a problem, well how many conviction have there been for voter suppression? Guess it must not be a problem right?
The second video is NOT edited and spliced (unlike what the ads by the romney/ryan campaign)... google Mike Turzai and you can listen for yourself from a "trusted source". The second video is 13 seconds long, I can't get any context from 13 seconds. Googling Mike T. gets me plenty of stories, but what the sound bite says is they accomplished voter ID in the state which will help Romney win. You assume because of voter supression but in fact what he was saying is now Democrats can't cheat. You can spin it your way, but that doesn't make it true.
Now that I have answered you several different times why don't you answer some of my questions? Like how many cases of voter suppression have been verified? Why don't you comment on the link to a video showing someone being able to vote using Eric Holders name? Why don't you tell me how we are going to insure illegals don't vote?
Is that why Al Franken won after several recounts?
Given that there are nearly 200 posts in front of this one and that not ONE provides a credible source that shows voter fraud, we can conclude that voter ID laws are not high on the "have to have" list.
That said, it seems like a good idea to require photo ID's to vote... it's more secure, it provides methods to assure that "big brother" is watching, and it otherwise makes the voter processing "easier" (we hope).
So the question becomes: Why would you risk disenfranchising voters for something deemed non-critical? Why not retain current voting requirements and "overlay" the photo ID processes to serve as a warning to those that would have been disenfranchised that they must act per the law or risk being excluded from voting in some future election?
To implement a strict ID law with no apparent or obvious benefit in the short term has obvious implications. We as a country should strive to eliminate ANY possibility of impropriety. Let 'em vote, give 'em warning, give 'em time, THEN make it law.
Wow, you have an "estimate"! Do you have any evidence of real voter suppression, any cases, convictions? I mean other then democrat talking points I find voter suppression to be as common as, Vampires biting peoples necks. Please don't give me a he said, she said response, do you have documented supression evidence that lead to a conviction? Yes or No
A year ago, I had an experience that illustated to me what voter ID laws will cause. I live in the city, walking distance from my job, and near public transportation, so I don't need a car. I gave up my car a couple years ago. But last year, my driver's license expired. I needed to get a new driver's license so that I can still drive when I'm on vacation in other states. I'm now in a different state than I lived when I got my previous driver's license, so I had to go to the DMV in person to get a new one. Because I don't have a car, I had to use public transportation. Well, the DMV isn't conveniently located, and involved a ride on the metro, followed by a long bus ride, then a half-mile walk. In all, it took about two hours to get there, and then two hours to get back home. Add to that the hour or so spent in the DMV. Five hours altogether. The DMV is only open Monday through Friday. So what happens to the poor person who lives in the city and doesn't have a car, is barely making ends meet, so can't afford to take the day off of work to go to the DMV for a driver's license? Or the old person who has difficulty getting around and couldn't walk the half mile after getting off the bus? By virtue of being poor or elderly in these circumstances, they must forfeit their right to vote? Can this really be happening in the United States of America? Hundreds of thousands of people are being affected by these laws, even though there have only been less than two dozen voter fraud cases in a decade. That's an awfully high price to pay for a problem that's virtually non-existent.
I meant to say very well. I aslo meant meant instead of ment. I also meant so you do have me on that. Again my brain was going too fast and my fingers were trying to play catch up. Sorry for the typos. Im trying to catch all of them and correct them. I meant loose instead of loos. And I meant for unfair reasons. And to the person that pointed out the Article published by NBC news, you do have valid evidence but again I think thats just an attack to keep people from voting. Our vote does count and it does matter. I dont care what they say, it does mattter. Although they do have a very valid point. Because come to think of it, even though when we cast our vote they are our reprensentatives and are supposed to vote for who tell them to cast our vote for, they can vote for any candidate they choose to despite this fact. This is why it would really be necessary to get rid of the electoral college, so this country honestly can be a government for the people by the people. Because honestly the officail that wins the popular vote really should be president. In these terms you are correct. I cannot argue with you on this point, however I do believe that our votes do count. Our votes do elect the electoral college, which casts our vote for us after all. So our votes do count.
i just caught my other typo. I meant official instead of officails. sorry again.
Wow, this is still going on? Guess what, I went and renewed my licence...(photo I.D.) since my last post! Its not hard to do! You can do it too!
Kornfed, it may be easy for YOU to do, but you are not everybody. I'm reposting my own story so you can understand the dilemma for many: "A year ago, I had an experience that illustated to me what voter ID laws will cause. I live in the city, walking distance from my job, and near public transportation, so I don't need a car. I gave up my car a couple years ago. But last year, my driver's license expired. I needed to get a new driver's license so that I can still drive when I'm on vacation in other states. I'm now in a different state than I lived when I got my previous driver's license, so I had to go to the DMV in person to get a new one. Because I don't have a car, I had to use public transportation. Well, the DMV isn't conveniently located, and involved a ride on the metro, followed by a long bus ride, then a half-mile walk. In all, it took about two hours to get there, and then two hours to get back home. Add to that the hour or so spent in the DMV. Five hours altogether. The DMV is only open Monday through Friday. So what happens to the poor person who lives in the city and doesn't have a car, is barely making ends meet, so can't afford to take the day off of work to go to the DMV for a driver's license? Or the old person who has difficulty getting around and couldn't walk the half mile after getting off the bus? By virtue of being poor or elderly in these circumstances, they must forfeit their right to vote? Can this really be happening in the United States of America? Hundreds of thousands of people are being affected by these laws, even though there have only been less than two dozen voter fraud cases in a decade. That's an awfully high price to pay for a problem that's virtually non-existent."
I saw a lot of minorities down there too, just so you know! Rick, if its that tuff for you to ever get an ID, how will you get out to vote?
How do they get groceries? How do they get other things done? If they have no help in these things, there are social programs to help.
RICK-IN SD. You are so right and I so agree with you. It doesn't make sense at all. Because whether LogicRequired wants to admit it or not, there is absolutely no reason for there to be any voter id laws preventing anyboy from exercising their constitutional right. It is absolutely one hundred percent senseless. But everything that the Republicans want to pass a law against or for is senseless and inconsiderate of the poor, the elderly, the disabled, and the minorities and women. They only care about themselves and people that are just like them, extremely conservative christians that have plenty of money that do not believe in the rights of women, minorities, poor people, and the disabled and the elderly.
kornfed, they do not have services where they actually come to your home to pick you if you are disabled or elderly. Certain companies have these services, but not the goverment. Now if you were referring to certain companies you have a point, But however if you are referring to the government, you are wrong. The government does not have programs like these. So Rick is right.
Wow, Kornfed, you're either illiterate or very dense. I'm talking about the DMV HERE and how it's inconveniently located for people who don't drive. THE DMV HERE, get it? What's that got to do with getting groceries? Grocery stores are all over the place and in most neighborhoods, the DMV is not. As for those poor people you saw at the DMV, they probably aren't so poor they don't have a car. Or they live in places where a car is a necessity. About half the people in this city rely on public transportation, so they don't own or need a car; thus, don't have or need a driver's license. And there aren't many DMVs around, and their hours suck.
I will post my comment for the third time since you're obviously having problems with reading comprehension: "A year ago, I had an experience that illustated to me what voter ID laws will cause. I live in the city, walking distance from my job, and near public transportation, so I don't need a car. I gave up my car a couple years ago. But last year, my driver's license expired. I needed to get a new driver's license so that I can still drive when I'm on vacation in other states. I'm now in a different state than I lived when I got my previous driver's license, so I had to go to the DMV in person to get a new one. Because I don't have a car, I had to use public transportation. Well, the DMV isn't conveniently located, and involved a ride on the metro, followed by a long bus ride, then a half-mile walk. In all, it took about two hours to get there, and then two hours to get back home. Add to that the hour or so spent in the DMV. Five hours altogether. The DMV is only open Monday through Friday. So what happens to the poor person who lives in the city and doesn't have a car, is barely making ends meet, so can't afford to take the day off of work to go to the DMV for a driver's license? Or the old person who has difficulty getting around and couldn't walk the half mile after getting off the bus? By virtue of being poor or elderly in these circumstances, they must forfeit their right to vote? Can this really be happening in the United States of America? Hundreds of thousands of people are being affected by these laws, even though there have only been less than two dozen voter fraud cases in a decade. That's an awfully high price to pay for a problem that's virtually non-existent."
I just received a voter information card in the mail last week for an election coming up in my district. That card specifically told me which polling play to visit, what it hours were and that I MUST have a valid Driver's license, valid state id, valid passport with my present address on it, utility bill in my name with my present address on it or a letter signed by two election judges stating that they are satisfied that I am who I say I am. It's been that way for as long as I have lived in this state. I had to show ID in the last state I lived in. Why is it such a big deal now?
Where do you live Rick. I want to help you get your photo ID. BTW, read the caption I have above where I addressed groceries. It was in reference to the elderly you spoke of. I will spare you the illiterate comment in kind.
PEOPLE ARE BRAINLESS, STUPID,AND RACIST!!!!!!
to all of you brainless people out there: there is ZERO EVIDENCE OF IN PERSON VOTER FRAUD!!!
ZERO!!!!!
your chances are greater to be struck by lightening!
its funny that all you righties will never get it through your thick skulls,MEXICANS CANNOT VOTE HERE!
prove me wrong!
why would anyone risk deportation just to vote in a country they cannot recieve benefits and according to you guys dont care enough about to bother with the process?
does that even make EFFING SENSE?
they dont care about the USA at all, but they want to VOTE????????!!!!!!!!!
this is done by smarter people than you, to SUPPRESS DEMOCRAT VOTes!
yes, there ARE perfectly legal citizens whom do not drive or have ID for whatever reason. it is THEIR CHOICE.
and they tend to be minorities and vote democrat. and THATS who these laws are designed to deter. it has NOTHING to do with fraud, but you are all too stupid to notice.
ask yourself this, for the party of "no new laws," "no nanny state laws," and supposedly hate restrictions on anything, why then are they trying to pass laws for an even that CANNOT BE PROVEN TRUE?
where are all these people who are supposedly voting illegaly?
out of the millions of people who cast votes legally, there have been about five cases ever of PROVEN illegal in person voter fraud. so ask yourself who is being fooled.
Libs are such angry and violent people hehe
Rick-in-SD
In your two examples, the poor person and the older home bound person, how do they get to their voting precinct?
I'm just curious?
Jim Spence, In Chicago they let the polls stay open longer, which is illegal but I have seen it go down. Or you can mail in an absentee ballot if you cannot get to the polling place. Romney/Ryan '12
Seems to me if 70% think a voter ID is a good idea it should be implemented, right? Oh, but that only applies to positions taken by and acceptable to Libbies... Otherwise it becomes a problem....
Voter fraud is basically 0% for the entire nation over the last ten years. Voter ID laws are 'solving' a problem that doesn't even exist. There is not a voter fraud issue in the country and the legislators of many of these voter ID laws have even said they are unsure voter ID would prevent fraud if it were to happen. Here is what voter fraud is really about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8
pjam09
So your saying that besides illegals to vote, we should also let people from foreign countries here on work visas, which is a picture I.D. with a US address vote? They vote and after two or three years leave and never come back, not giving a @!$%# what goes on in the US. Oh, I am and have always been a democrat, since 1969!
Logic... Maddow produced articles written by the vast majority of publications from Ohio. Are you saying that they are ALL left leaning? The problem with people like you is that you will not listen to anything unless it agrees with what you already think. This is the most childish activity I can think of when it comes to forming your OWN opinion and not having it spoon fed to you. That is what I mean when i refer to your bubble. You are a breitbart, Limbaugh, fox news, or any of their ilk only kind of news consumer and therefore are not FULLY informed (aka bubble boy).
When i form my opinions I try to read atleast three articles on any topic. Articles can and are from any of the following: WSJ (definite left leaning communist/socialist paper), WP (definite left leaning communist/socialist paper), NYtimes, LA times, NBC news, CNN, Maddow, AP, Reuters.
Your comment about 35 days 24 hours shows how little you truly understand about the Ohio voter laws and what sec of state Husted did.
believerof worked the last election at a polling station. We had a copy of pictures we could accept. One of those was the I-9 wth a utility bill with I-9 holders name and ward address.
You can try to prove me wrong but that is the way it has been in the 20 years I've been in Austin. I am 60 year old if you are thinking I'm only 20!
believerof
Also, Texas has a law the gives amnesty to illegals from INS with an I-9 to open bank accounts. Gov. Perry and the Texas legislature are currently attempting to ban the voting issue for illegals but a great number of those legislaters are US citizen Mexicans so the legislators are running into problems and will probably end up allowing Texans to vote on it as a propersition.
Oh, BTW, I am white, my wife is black, so do not call me a racist!!!
I was in two wars, Vietnam and the Gulf War, we all bleed red and are all brothers in arms! That's how I see people of a different race!!!
Instead of making it more difficult to vote, voting should be mandatory for every eligible American citizen...
Then and only then will the majority rule in this country...
Stop the filibusters and start doing something in Washington... Voter ID is not the problem... Making it impossible for some American citizens to vote is the problem...
I hope this comes back and bites those that denies anyone their right to vote...
True story...at my precint the only person challenged on their ID was a kindly old white lady with no picture ID...she said she never had or needed one and that damn Obama must be keeping her away...but it was HER republican legislature that did it...I just LMAO
Tell the old people lies and they will believe it. They should be ashamed of themselves. Someone called me up getting me to vote for a republican and she told me a story of when Obama was working somewhere he took her house. And both of them believed it. Have these people no shame or integrity at all? And when you win on lies I don't care how many votes you get you are still a loser and they know it. Mitt. I wish America would pledge to run on truth and honesty. Why don't you do that Mitt?
Being kindly and old does not exempt one from the law.
It is just amazing. When I vote in my local precinct -- it is my neighbor's that are there manning the polls. I can not even think that my next door neighbor that doesn't even have to ask my name would require an ID. Most polling places are like this -- it is your neighbor's that are manning the polls. This is just a ridiculous scheme to disenfranchise not only minorities but the elderly. Someone mentioned earlier that they need photo ids to bank, etc. Well most likely when they opened their account it was a different world. My own mother did not have a photo ID until she applied for and got her Passport at the ripe age of 67. So their are lots of Senior citizens that have no need for photo ID and this is the group that probably will be the most affected.
We don't all live in Mayberry.
Voting is a right. It's also a responsibility. Seems to be that voters should feel some sense of obligation to know the truth about the candidates.
Therefore, I would like to propose that Fox News, Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity fans be required to pass a basic truth-or-fiction test before being allowed to vote. Think of it as a current events literacy test. Now, why isn't that fair?
It's their responsibility as voters to have a clue what they're really supporting. Since they only get their information from the GOP's fact-free noise machine, they likely don't have a clue.
It just a matter of satisfying the prerequisite. What's this honor system thing? I cant even signup for a class without proving my prerequisites.
If you don't have a photo ID I don't want you voting, period. If you can't even get an ID then your to stupid and lazy to be allowed to vote. Being a "right" comes with responsibility to that person, and that responsibility is being able to prove who you are. What a pathetic issue, I can't even believe that something this stupid is even being discussed.
It's very rare that the people manning the polling stations would know or even recognize everyone in their "neighborhood". That argument is lame.
What's really fair is if your on the government dole, excluding SS / Medicare, you shouldn't be allowed to vote to continue to get your "check". How about that? And if we give honesty tests how about putting MSN, MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, CNBC and PBS to the "truth" and "fair and balanced" test. I'll go along with that, because three quarters of the citizens in this country can't even name their own Congressperson, they think the Gettysburg Address was where Lincoln lived, and that WW1 was fought in Mexico. Never underestimate the stupidity of the American public, it will serve you well.
Rick - Good, sounds like your precinct was at least enforcing the laws... clearly not a Democrat run polling location or you would have seen the buses of illegals arriving with Spanish translators to tell them which candidates were offering the most taxpayer-funded handouts for their votes.
Give a person food stamps,cell phone,welfare check,free medical care,free housing they'll vote Dem all their life.
Rorschach,
You may have something there. But why not give a test to the people who voted for Obama and the people who get their news from CNN, MSN, ABC, NBC, etc? I love how you libs get your information from far left media sources and only far left sources then have the nerve to call others stupid.
Because, if a current events literacy test was required of voters, don't you think that MSNBC, Maddow, Ed, etc. viewers would likely be disenfranchised in droves. I mean, really now, at least Fox makes an effort to appear "Fair and Balanced", whereas MSNBC doesn't even make an attempt to disguise their hard-left ideology.
Of course, if people make a point of getting news from multiple sources (CNN, FOX, MSNBC, HLN, etc.) they can actually get a pretty good idea of what the truth is.
Rorschach
Of course, just because you watch Fox you have to be a complete idiot. I guarantee you wouldn't want to place a bet on which side would have higher "current event" tests scores Fox viewers vs MSNBC viewers. Go ahead and try and pretend that MSNBC isn't the DNC's "fact-free noise machine". We would WELCOME that requirement........
Do search on........Fox news dumber.....That's Fox news dumber....and see the studies that prove that people who watch Fox news are actually dumber for watching Fox news. Lies and wrong info dished out daily to present The billionaire owners message.
Fox news idea was created back in Nixon days when the press was being responsible and the Nixon bunch was being exposed. These people wondered what if they made a fake news station that touted GOP plans and agenda and anti Democratic party views. After hundreds of millions spent, billionaire Rupert Murdoch created what Fox news is today. FAKE NEWS WITH LIES. It is why Rupert is in trouble in England. Buying off all those people have caught up to him.
Remeber.....people who watch Fox News are dumber after watching Fox news.
The problem is that everyone on the left assumes that everyone on the right (no matter how far right...or not) watches Fox news. Not even remotely true.
Martini........pretty easy to see now that it is exposed, you people will not admit to sucking up the lies and wrong info, however, in the instant that you preach what is said on Fox news, it shows.
Voter id law changes in Mn are based on a number of republican lies. Repubs are going to old folks homes, nursing homes, and writing in local news papers that bus loads of illegal Mexican immigrants going from voting place to voting place and illegally voting. When pressed about it during hearings it was admitted it happened, and repubs just laughed it off instead of putting out retraction. Typical repubs, rigging the elections.
"Wilson’s University of Delaware study found that the laws enjoy more support among those who had high levels of “racial resentment” when answering questions about African Americans receiving “special considerations.”"
More proof of high levels of racial resentment from our resident racist pjam09~"clearly not a Democrat run polling location or you would have seen the buses of illegals arriving with Spanish translators to tell them which candidates were offering the most taxpayer-funded handouts for their votes."
Now you repubs are whining about NBC, CNN, MSNBC, have no right to correct Fox news lies. So you say those news sources are tainted to the Dems because they produce factual stories that debunk Fox lies. So tell me...what news organization will you only allow to correct fox news? None?......Oh HELL NO.......Every News organization should be calling out fox news for their deliberate lies. Fox news is not news, it is Rupert Murdoch who bought his citizenship.
I feel that way about people who can't master basic spelling and grammar.
According to a new study by Farleigh Dickinson University, Fox viewers are the least knowledgeable audience of any outlet, and they know even less about politics and current events than people who watch no news at all.
Respondents to the survey were able to answer correctly an average of 1.8 of 4 questions about international news and 1.6 out of 5 questions about domestic affairs. “Based on these results, people who don’t watch any news at all are expected to answer correctly on average 1.22 of the questions about domestic politics, just by guessing or relying on existing basic knowledge,” said Dan Cassino, the poll’s analyst.
“The study concludes that media sources have a significant impact on the number of questions that people were able to answer correctly,” wrote Cassino and his colleagues. “The largest effect is that of Fox News: all else being equal, someone who watched only Fox News would be expected to answer just 1.04 domestic questions correctly—a figure which is significantly worse than if they had reported watching no media at all. On the other hand, if they listened only to NPR, they would be expected to answer 1.51 questions correctly.”
""
Today is Primary Day in Florida...I just put on my T-Shirt....
On the front it says "SOLO EEUU CIUDADANOS mayo VOTO"....
On the back it says "ONLY U.S. CITIZENS MAY VOTE" and I'm donning the U.S.BORDER PATROL ballcap I bought online and heading out to a particular polling place in West Palm Beach....
It's another beautiful day here in South Florida....Think I'll go for a walk....
Rorschach-558483, # 2.5 says
First, you'd have to 'splain to them what the difference between truth and fiction is - and that could take weeks. Colbert's "truthiness" is more easily realized because it is based on emotion rather than thought.
Those old folks with no photo ID better get one if they expect to go to a hospital for any kind of treatment. Hospitals in my area require photo ID for any and all medical services. Stupid is as stupid does.
Translation: "I'm a douche". Have a nice walk.
I voted today. Voted on the Republican side.
Chose the whackiest nutjob that they had to offer, so many to choose from.
If you can't even get an ID then your to stupid and lazy to be allowed to vote.
What's the matter Bikerchick, miss out on your fiber today? LOL You always pull the spelling grammar test out when your getting your clock cleaned on a thread, just like is happening on this thread. It's always the last vestige of a person wanting to change the subject or who has nothing credible to say as her credibility on an issue is being eviscerated so blatantly. If grammar and spelling were a perquisite for voting in this country, we ALL know who would win. The ignorance of the left knows no bounds, and their level of education surely is suspect. Just like your buddy Starsailing. His / her quote
We don't need the Banksters on Wall Streets or their Corrupt Political Flunkies in Washington DC to require our children or family to a carry National Identity Card.
For America that is actually what they are trying sneak around and implement here!
Well really if a honest "American Voter" has to carry a "Card" why shouldn't YOU....It's for YOUR Safety & Protection!
You wouldn't want UN Terrorists or UN Criminals to Drive or Walk or Eat or Sleep in America without one would you? Besides 750 Million Americans (out of 312 Million total) agreed to in the UN Poll so it must be UN OK!
BTW Did we mention we have to Implant it....It's all for YOUR UN Safety & Protection because YOU wouldn't want one of THEM "Terrorists" to steal it....Would You?
Well I for one refuse to Wake Up in these UN Criminals UN Gray State to be forced to eat their UN Soylent Green only available if we work in their UN Labor Camps......For the UN Educated Google it!
A National Identity Card is the Mark of the UN Beast and it is UN Acceptable and UN Compatible with US! Think about it are YOU willing to let your Children be forced to live in the UN World?
it is a Democratic Incumbent Vote Republican!
If it is a Republican Incumbent Vote Democratic!
And let US get Rid of this UN One Party System and their UN Incumbents!
@starsailing
You actually think Fox is the only media outlet that has a bais? Really? Does it hurt when the DNC shoves it hand up your ass to work you like a puppet?
Hell, I watch them all occasionally and I don't see any correcting going on. In fact most of the time they don't even report on the same things. If it anti-liberal story Fox covers it and if it's anti-conservative the rest do. Nobody tries to correct anything, just report the news that fits their bias.
denver bill 2 nothing you mentioned is a constitutional right.
Most probably favor id. Just don't make the id impossible to get. That is the problem. Besides with our technology we should have a list at every precinct showing you are registered there and you are checked off when you vote. Lists can be ran against others to see if double voting occurs. It does happen because of snowbirds. You can't vote twice even if you pay taxes and live more than one place. Besides if you are registered twice having an id won't matter anyway. You will show your id and still be voting twice. This is used to suppress votes and the people at the bottom of it know it. But ultimately they won't get away with it even if it is their conscience that eats away at them for doing it.
If ATM machines can keep track of your balance, I think electronic voting can track if you've voted already. Electronic voting would also make it possible to vote outside your home precinct. Like vote during your lunch break-- at a local mall or grocery store even. And with an ID, we dont need registration anymore. Swip the card, check for felons and vote. Maybe have the polls open for a week.
ID should be required to keep those who do NOT have the right to vote (illegals, felons, etc. .. ) from voting. They should not be allowed to influence policy in our nation when they are not legal to vote.
I agree KTLIN-2021409. SARSAILING- I really like you. You are speaking the truth and telling these dumb ass racist conservatives on here the truth. You are giving their stupid asses the facts and they cannot handle. I wish they would take their racist ass to school and learn some real information. I cannot stand these racist @!$%#s on here. They need an education. A real education.
Now to the dumbass racist ass rednecks. I will say this again. IF YOU ALREADY HAVE YOUR VOTER'S IDENTIFICATION CARD YOU SHOULD NOT BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A PHOTO ID. IF YOU HAVE ALREADY REGISTERED TO VOTE AND ALL OF YOUR INFORMATION IS CORRECT THEN THAT IS ALL THEY SHOULD NEED. AND BESIDES YOUR INFORMATION SHOULD ALREADY BE IN THE SYSTEM SO THEY SHOULDN'T EVEN NEED TO ASK FOR ADDITIONAL IDENTIFICATION.
And in case you didnt read the whole story: After the author of this srticle and the reporter conducted extensive research they found out that photo id laws are not even necessary. Please go back and read the article. The laws are not necessary to have in place. They are only doing this to suppress minorties and edlery people. They know that this demographic usually votes democratic which criples the republicans vote significantly. They know this and this is exactly why they are doing this.
Like I said before; Republicans are very evil, scandalous, racist ass, sexist people who pretend to care about everyday working people. They do not give a rats ass about you if you are not the rich white elite and share their ridiculous conservative views. They know exactly what they are doing just like we know exactly what they are doing. Everything in their power to suppress the poor, the minority, and the elderly vote. Truth is truth. It may hurt but it is the truth.
I love the liberal stance...if the public likes something that we don't that must mean they are uninformed! I think most people can understand "need an ID to vote" not much of a debate. And disenfranchised? these poor people that are disenfranchised cant drive either, can't cash a check, can't buy a beer, can't get on a plane, can't open a bank account.....we should do something about that
How about because the low life libs will vote at multiple polling places, Oh wait, They already do that in Chicago in EVERY election.
Do you actually believe this, or are you trying to be funny? I can't tell.
You do understand that the GOP has it's own poll workers assigned to each precinct to watch over those devious Democrats?
Absentee voting is the bigger fraud. Think about it. You send in your vote with your name on the envelope and its opened by union "volunteers." I've heard of retaliation against union members who got caught voting the wrong way-- in Chicago.
Wm -375815 - Of course they do, look at how Democrats behave even when they are being watched. Leaving them alone would be like giving the keys to a candy store to a group of fat kids.
I swear the liberals make even the most common task seem like an unbearable requirement. Please stop using the argument that not everyone drives and has a driver license. Ever hear of a NON-Driver ID. It looks exactly like a driver license without the driving priveledge attached. It is very easy for a legal citizen to get a photo Id and there are many agencies setup to provide the service for free. It doesn't matter if only one case of fraud has happened. Zero tolerence should be the rule. We just need to make sure that everyone casting a vote is actually alive, or legal, or not a felon. This isn't a design to stop black people from voting. Last i heard, black people are legal citizens with the same ability to get a photo ID as anyone else. It's the illegal's that need to be stopped from voting. Democrats always court the undocumented, disenfranchised groups and do whatever they can to allow an illegal vote to be cast because it is always for the Dems. Requiring a photo ID ensures only those that legally can, will be able to vote, legally folks. The only tricks being played are by liberals who don't want their fringe votes to go away.
Without having to show an ID, what's to stop me from showing up in Chicago on election day and claiming my name is Barack Obama and I'd like to vote?
You have to present forms of ID. These include many different forms of ID and are forms of ID that everyone has.
Because if you show up and claim to be Mr. Obama and he has already voted you'd be risking going to prison. And for what? Casting an isolated GOP vote in a very Blue state? And for your vote to make a difference, you and a really large group of your drinking buddies would have to agree on who to vote for and where - like maybe Iowa, AND know the names of registered voters AND count on the fact that they didn't show up to vote. More likely than not this type of conspiracy would get side tracked and stop at one of the casino boats in the Quad Cities and never make it to the polls.
You'd have to have a voter registration card saying you are indeed Barack Obama -- GOT ONE????
How about showing up right when the polls open? Or for someone who you know won't vote or will arrive late.
And what if instead of drinking buddies it's a busload of people in a city of a swing state?
There is nothing wrong with having to present identification.
They would probably know I wasn't Barack Obama because I got into college on my own merit rather than affirmative action.
And to further extrapolate CT's college experience he went on to enjoy being a professor at Harvard and then being popular enough to become President of the United States............well maybe not Potus but a plumber & President of the Elks lodge
ctviking, ok well since you're so sure there is all this fraud going on and busloads of illegals are showing up everywhere all over the united states to 'steal' the elections from on 'patriotic' republicans, show us. SHOW ME THE PROOF!!!!!! there is none. there never has been. and only since karl rove and his superpac got into the picture has there ever been any outcry about voter fraud!!!! he's a scumbag, low life , bottom dwelling machiavelli and you're stupid to believe all this. i proved who i was when i registered to vote. i will not show it again. i will not be sidelined by a bunch of right wing radicals. and i will vote. try and stop me. do you think that if you stand outside my polling place and try to intimidate me, it would work? i'd love to see someone try it. i may be only 5'2" and a little old lady, but by god, i'll vote and none of this 'voter fraud' mania will stop me. i know MY rights and i will exercise them.
Don't be stupid you can't go to the polls claiming you 're some else. Where does this happen? Only in the states that have all of the voter fraud. Who those people who a caught for voter fraud? How much time did they receive ?
this is to alessa. I love your comment. It was hilarious and real as hell. I do not blame you for that. My sentiments exactly. If you have already filled out the required forms to obtain a registered voters id then you should not have to prove who you are again. Your information should still be in the system. And thats all they should need. These laws are ridiculous. It doesn't make sense at all. The intentionally put these laws into place to suppress the minorities, the elderly, and the disabled people vote. They are not slick. We are not stupid. Their evil asses just want office so they can carry out their evil ass agenda.
The "right" to vote will get more and more difficult to exercise because the more people vote the worse it is for republicans.
Actually, I heard an interview on NPR recently talking about some studies done in states that enacted voter ID laws. Overall, the effect was generally negligible, although one state (Georgia?) had increased Democratic turnout after the law was changed.
Nevada - When the "more people" voting are foreign criminals imported by Democrats of course it is worse for Republicans, it is worse for all Americans.
Wow, I hadn't heard that story. That sounds really interesting. Can you post a link to where this happened?
What possible reason could someone have against showing that they are who they say they are ... And I'm not talking about the process over how to obtain the "ID". If the "ID'S" were free then what would the next issue be. People will find anything to complain about. If you are who you say you are then where is the issue ?
It's not a matter of being against "showing who they are", it's the change in what is accepted as proof of who they are. You shouldn't need anything more than a recent utility bill and one other piece of ID like a social security card. Students should be able to use their student card, etc.
If the "ID'S" were free then what would the next issue be.
Do you think for one minute you get disability without proving who you are?? Guess so, under Obama. Do you think seniors, who by the way are receiving SS benefits get them without proof of ID? chit, even infants born in the last 20 years have to have a SS number to be claimed as a dependant. The only people NOT wanting to verify ID are those that want to steal someones vote and thereby steal an election...PLAIN AND SIMPLE. No matter what you bring up that IS the reason.
culheath - READ man,Read ? Did you read my post ... I said I was not talking about the process of how to obtain the "ID" only the issue people are having about proving who they are ... But you managed to take your jab at me anyway and then tell me to "think" ?
Good idea -- let's spend the NEXT FOUR YEARS preparing for an ID election NOT foist this crap on the country 90 days before a presidential election!!!
Jeff,
Exactly. Why the sudden rush...what does that say? Like suddenly there is all this voter fraud?
Jeff
Some of these laws have been on the books for two years. However, the DOJ is now suing to overturn these laws. Culheath would have you believe that it is about keeping people from voting but read his post in 1.2 and you will see his true story
Why the sudden rush? I've been reading about this for 4 years... You are truely a mouth piece for the stupid.
State-issued IDs ARE free. Just got mine last week. No biggie.
Jeff and Culheath,
The issue of voter ID has been raised since the 2008 election. Eric Holder and the DOJ have been sueing 13 states on this issue since then. This was not raised in the past 90 days, this was just reported in the past 90 days and people who actually pay attention to what is going on in this country and get their news from multiple sources (not just MSNBC) have known about this for the past 4 years. In that time most, if not all states DMV's have instituted FREE photo ID's as well as transportation to obtain these FREE ID's to everyone regardless of income. So what is the problem? Who is being disenfranchised?
I do not know where you people get your information from, but as a senior citizen I will give you some. To get Social Security in the USA you have to present a raised seal version of your birth certificate. I live in Ecuador and had to go to the USA to get mine. SSA will not accept Pasports, Drivers License, or a state issued I.D. as proof of who you are. If that is the case all of the SSA recipients have since they turned 62 or now 66 have copies of their birth certificates. As far as voting, I believe all people need to present a Photo ID to prove they are US Citizens and that this gives them the write to vote.
The word needs to get out on TV ads about this, explaining just who these voter ID laws will keep away from the polls. Republicans are messing with something that does not need fixing. Voter fraud just does not happen very often. You have a better chance of getting hit by lightening twice. They are way overcompensating for this non-problem by making it harder for millions of people to vote, most of which tend to vote with the democrats; so you can see why republicans are so adamant about passing these idiotic voter ID laws, especially before the upcoming election for president.
Why would you think that people who won't take responsibility and get a photo ID would tend to vote democrat. Is it perhaps because they're on the receiving end of the government handouts?
that's exactly what he/she said.
You say it ( FRAUD ) dosen't happen very often ... What if it only happens once and that is the deciding vote ?
Hmmm. I'm not getting any government handouts, I've always worked, I've always paid taxes (without whining about it) but I left the Republican Party when they started going bat$hit crazy. Doesn't your hypothesis take a hit on that one?
Edward-
Then, how would this voter ID stop fraud? What's to stop someone from voting with a fake ID? Thus, the people who are dead or illegal would still vote...
zieglo87 - Never said it would stop anything ... I simply said "what If ". A person bent on circumventing the system will do so and that is a fact.
Its not about responding to any wave of fraud. Its about implementing a prerequisite laid out in the Constitution. Why is anybody comfortable with this "honor system?" Just like pres candidates should be showing birth certificates up front anyway. And what do we dwell on? Tax returns. WTF.
zieglo - "Then, how would this voter ID stop fraud? What's to stop someone from voting with a fake ID? Thus, the people who are dead or illegal would still vote..."
So you're saying that we might as well not have any I.D.'s for anything because they are pointless?
mt-480555 - I agree with the TV ad idea. But you saw how long it took to get people just to switch to digital receivers, and you know there's still people lagging around wondering, "What's an analog?". It can't be done in 3 months.
So starting Jan 1, 2013, start blasting TV and radio ads telling people they have 4 years to get off their duffs and get their free photo ID.
D Gerrow - don't know where you live but photo ID is NOT free in NY ($9-$14 depending on term, reduced to $6.50 if you are 62+ and on SSI.) Driver's licenses are $64.25-$105.00 depending on renewal length. And to get these you need a certified birth certificate ($10-$45 depending on county) or a passport ($55-$165.) Plus transportation, wait times, etc.
pjam-
No, I'm not saying that we should get rid of IDs or stop requiring information for people to vote. However, if these are the people that we are worried about, then why not target them? That is, why not make a law that makes it harder for these people to vote illegally. The problem with voter fraud really lies within the absentee ballot system, so this should be targeted.
My house has not been burglarised yet. I still put a security system in and pay for insurance. So you don't appreciate voter fraud, so you say we don't need ID's. Well we should have voter ID's. And with everyone complying we can work on something else. IF you have to show the harm to society as a whole because we require ID's you can't list anything that is credible because it's a good thing. I have known old ladies in thier 80's and 90's who can't drive and never missed an election. IF a person is interested in it they can get it done. IF you are able bodied, help an infirm person get their ID and get to the polls. Become a contributor, fixer and make good things happen. You'll feel better.
If someone lacks the ability or desire to obtain a photo id then do we really want them voting? Who in this country can't get some type of photo id? If they can't muster up the energy to accomplish this very simple task then voting must not be very important to them. Therefore I really don't want their vote canceling out mine.
Why yes we do. You obviously lack the imagination or information to realize that for many people circumstances are indeed a huge impediment to their ability to afford or get the necessary documentation or to make the necessary travel requirements. The efforts of these Republican administrations should be to expand the voter franchise, not to diminish it. Your view is repugnant in it's willful ignorance.
Thank you cul for that meaningless commentary. Tell us, how many people do you know without some type of photo ID? I don't know anyone, never have as a matter a fact. Again I know it's a liberal doctrine to want to pretend it's all about fairness but life isn't fair pal. If someone can't put forth the effort to get a photo ID then I don't want their vote canceling out mine. The only reason liberals are so upset about this is because those people who rely heavily on government handouts are the people who you say can't get an ID.
Lots. But then I know a lot of older people, obviously you do not.
It's not life that's unfair, it's you...own that.
How very patriotic, empathetic and understanding of you.
Well the primary flaw in your argument is that you suppose the only people who will be affected by this voter ID ruse, are liberals. Older and disabled conservatives don't exist in your world I guess. Pretty dumb, dude.
If someone only gets their information from the GOP's media machine, do we really want them voting?
"expand the voter franchise"
How are we supposed to do this? Voting is open to anyone willing to spend 5 minutes filling out a form that they only have to fill out once every move. The fact that people don't so this is a great representation of our sad sad society.
EVERYONE who is a CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES is entitled to vote whether or not they have a photo ID. There are lots of other forms of ID. This is simply the Republicans trying to disenfranchise voters for whom it is difficult to obtain a photo ID (specifically a drivers license or a state ID card). One should only have to show their voter registration card and a current public utility bill. Jim Crow is alive and well in the GOP. Just look at Ohio - let's limit early voting hours to weekdays during the day in the largest urban counties, but expand it in the rural counties. How blatant can you get?
It's called voter registration drives. Something that freaks the minority Republicans out. Republicans know they are the minority and that is where all this voter fraud crap is coming from. They are trying everything they can to rig the election in their favor. It's obvious.
I'd argue against the mentality of "we want them voting" but if they're so disconnected from society that they dont have ID, I wonder why THEY'D want to vote.
Matt, the rich own property and as a consequence are less likely to move.
I have a solution: chip everyone at birth.
Put an encapsulated RFID chip inside the skull- right through the soft spot on every baby's head.
No id required, forever; you're unique at birth, and so is your chip- and everyone (in range) would know your name.
Scanners at the entries of every institution would associate your identity with your image- as most already have cameras.
Burglar alarms could also report who did the B and E, courtesy of scanners throughout the home being protected.
There's a million apps for this- some friendly...some not.
One example is a reader/safety built into guns- so only the owner could fire them. You could keep a loaded gun in your nightstand again, or wear one with no permit.
Of course, the same device would record every use- which would make it tough on criminals.
Die or commit a felony, and you can't vote- or do a lot of other things.
In fundamental concept, this is identical to the requirement for a photo I.D.- just writ a little larger, and done a lot better.
Furthermore, as part of the universal federal database, you could go on line and verify your vote, duplicate votes would be impossible, and everyone would have the right to vote no matter where they lived or how often they moved.
Make readers available for your mobile device, and you could prove who you are with every call.
Of course, that would totally freak out all the folks in the "mark of the beast" crowd...which remains strangely silent.
Perhaps that silence is due to their partisan alignment with the same group so intent on pushing the I.D. agenda- which will have a significant impact in their favor at the polls.
That would be the right.
Oh, yeah...no more passports or illegal immigrants either.
No more cheating on the wife or husband, no more unreported overtime...why, there are thousands of really good reasons for doing this.
All in favor?
Many people established their bona fides ages ago. Those that did may not have a driver's license anymore. If it were easy to get a photo Id many would not object. Pennsylvania's law requires that you have a raised seal birth certificate, if you are/were married you must produce a marriage certificate, if you were divorced/remarried you must have those documents as well, you must have a utility/tax bill in your name (how many married women have that), and you must go to a photo center to get your ID which is only open two days a week and may be a long drive away (for me it is 20 minutes) . I can say from experience that it takes a long time to get these documents especially if you were born/married in another state. And what happens if you are like my mother. She was adopted 90 years ago so never had a raised seal birth certificate. Her adoption papers were destroyed in a flood years after she established her bona fides, she did not have a driver's license for years...she would not be able to vote in this commonwealth in spite of the fact she voted for many years in the same place because she cannot get the documents required (after 90 years they probably do not exist anymore).
Add to that registered voters have not been notified that this law exists nor the requirements needed to get this ID. If you do not have the internet you do not know the requirements. If a law like this must be in place then give registered voters notification and a reasonable amount of time to get the ID (Rhode Island's law takes effect in 2014). As far as needing an ID for all the things quoted here..BS. The only time I have been asked for my photo ID is when a clerk actually looks at my CC and sees "see photo ID" on the signature line. At almost 3/4 of a century I established my bona fides long before photo driver's licenses came into effect (here in PA in the late 70s)..fortunately I still have a current license because tho I have a birth certificate I no longer have any of the other documents in my posession.
Given the time frame and the fact no one has been notified this is definitely voter suppression for a specific election here in Pennsylvania.
Never under estimate the Republicans ability to steal an election.
The entire arguement is bogus. People who are against an ID being required are trying to defend an a position that cannot be defended. They know it and we know it. It is all about what they want to be rather than what should be. Truth is most of the same people are for open borders and most other liberal causes. They don't give a crap about the poor or the sick. It's all about them and their interests.
Nope, raised atheist and lovingly.
Nope, A student through even into college. Have several skills and lots of work. Even own my own company.
Nope. You couldn't be more off base. And I am rarely on here all day by the way.
What explains my pro-Democrat socialist agenda is my education level and general smarts. Oh, and I can spell, unlike some posters I know who assume I was beraded as a child. Did I mention that I am not even slightly bitter about much...ok, you got me.. I do really hate that kids these days get to grow up with computers and I didn't, but I'm in therapy about that so I can't really discuss it.
Anyone who is here legally is 99% bound to have a photo ID. My green card mother-in-law has a photo ID, my 19 year old nanny who doesn't have a drivers license yet has a state issued photo ID. I have never been hired at ANY job from my first job at McD's or to my current where I didn't need a photo ID. To say it is expensive and cumbersome for some to get a photo ID is just outright misrepresentation of your reason for supporting no-ID voting. How are they working? how are they purchasing items? how are they banking? how are they getting an apartment? how are they getting utility service to their residence? How are they doing practically anything without a photo ID in today's society unless there is something unlawful going on.
pine walker,
i can answer your allegations. my mother didn't get a picture id until she was 84. she never needed it. AND, AND if I hadn't been there to help her, she still wouldn't have one. why? you ask? i'll tell you. my mother is disabled and has been since she was 20 years old. she never drove a care, held a job and god forbid she wasn't allowed to go to college because my father wasn't rich enough to hire a full time companion to push her around while he worked to support our family. she never had a bank account, or rented or own a house. everything was in my dad's name. she never had any utilities in her name. she never went out by herself, BECAUSE she can't walk and she can't use an electric wheel chair. you see, not everyone lives their lives the way you do. you apparently have grown up in this information age where everything in your life is out there for the whole world to see and you can find out everything you need with the touch of a button.
my mom can't push those buttons, my friend, her hands don't work as well as yours. her whole life, she has had trouble writing. how did she get along without an id? just fine, thank you. she raised two children who grew up to be fine, honest, hard-working, patriotic adults. AND, except for me, REPUBLICANS. she is a better person than you will ever be and i'll tell you why. she would NEVER judge you the way you are judging everyone else whose lives do not reflect your own narrow-minded, ignorance.
she when i did get her id, i had to come up with not only her birth certificate, which by the way, does NOT have an embossed state seal AND a marriage certificate since the name on her birth certificate was different than her signature. AND it DID cost money! it was a major pain in the @ss, but i did it. if I hadn't been there, what would she have done? i suppose if she were unable to get an id, ya'll think she shouldn't have a right to vote. where does it say that in the constitution?
But that's the whole point...making it hard to get is exactly what the plan is about. This isn't about protecting democracy, it's about subverting it. Nothing, and I mean nothing upsets a republican more than knowing most people don't agree with them.
Come on man, you can't possibly think that only republicans are guilty of this! It is stinking human nature to get bristled up when someone doesn't agree with you. Just look at the gay marraige issue for liberals and the gun ownership issue for conservatives. Take off the partisan blinders man and try to see that others have differing opinions, but can *gasp* still be good people.
It appears you re upset that conservatives disagree with you over this issue. How do you know conservatives want to subvert voting and not just protect the integrity of it? Since less than 40% of those registered ever really vote, and we have anywhere between 12 to 20 million illegals in the country that may or may not know they can't vote just how is voter fraud to be discovered without any way to confirm the ID of voters? I hope you understand that voting can determine the direction of a nation, state, county and most conservatives don't understand your problem with ID when you use them in every other part of your life. We don't see you stating how this is subverting you day to day life but it does when we leave the door open to fraud in voting in the 21st century.
I've read your posts and have come to the conclusion that ... Wait for it ... You must be a ... Wait for it ... A Republican ... Whew !!! ( I mean you DO disagree with everyone posting here today ).
Mike - how do we know that conservatives want to subvert the voting process? Just take a look at Ohio. Each county has an elections board with three members from each party. When deciding upon early voting hours in the counties, if there is a tie, then the REPUBLICAN secretary of state casts the deciding vote. Interestingly, early voting hours in rural, largely Republican counties has been expanded while the larger, urban, heavily Democrat counties have had their early voting opportunities restricted. Coincidence? I think not.
@culheath:PLEASE keep up your "political profiling",since you're supposed to be so "fair " and "objective"!(not) So, according to you, voting as/ professing to be a Democrat makes you some king of superior life form and all those that disagree with you and your philosophies (Republicans/conservatives) are to be demonized?!What's next, special "camps" for the "unbelievers"? I suppose that you're just a "legion in your own mind..."
As a tea partier I am shocked that my fellow conservatives would ask to require ID at the time of voting that gives way to much control over our lives by the government
If fraud was THE issue and a real problem in elections, how could a RepubliCON ever get elected?? This is a ficticious, made up problem to disinfranchise a very big population of minorities, ie the elderly and the poor!
If the race is that close and Romney wins, he is going to have a HUGE law suit on his hands. We will strip him of any executive privledge and not accept him as president of the US!!!!!
It's unconstitutional at its foundation. Illiterate people that could not write their own names a hundred years ago could vote by just signing their initials. They can not take away peoples right to vote...NO matter what they pull out of their a$$es.
Even illiterate people have to have an id if they want to cash a check, buy alcohol/tobacco or obtain some type of employment. Good luck with your lawsuit too and keep trying to defy logic and common sense. I'm sure it will get you a long way in life.
Try not to be so obtuse...it's not ID in question, it's the type of ID...that is what has changed.
Are you that willfully stupid or are you just spouting what you've been told to. Pushing voter suppression and calling it voter fraud is perverting democracy
Borrowing and spending us into trillions of debt while accusing the dems of tax and spend.
30 years of @!$%#ting on the middle class and calling it "trickle"
Classic NAZI lies and fear mongering, you fools dancing merrily down the right-wing nut-job road apparently are completely ignorant as to where it leads, look up Moussolini.
Trickledown...
Pushing voter fraud & calling it voter suppression is perverting democracy.
Borrowing and spending us into trillions of debt & creating poverty to buy votes while accusing the republicans of only caring about money.
40 years of f&@#ing the middle class in the nalme of helping the poor to create more poverty and dependence on the government. All while hiding behind poor children and expectant mothers that you then pay tocreate more poor children & expectant mothers, to bribe with welfare & purchase votes for the "needy" and "poor" that you yourself have created.
Classic Nazi lies & communist social engineering. You left wing crybabies in a drug induced coma state, stumbling down the road with your hands out, apparantly only want to live lives that give someone else full control of your happiness, completely ignorant as to where it leads (look up the Soviet Union & Greece).
Why not let people keep more of the money they earn & make government live within their means (& on less). Take responsibility for yourself & your family, don't give that job to politicians in government!
Really? Last time I checked the democrats were in the white house and controlling the senate so how is it the republican's fault now? I agree with having to have a state ID to be able to vote. Let's be honest you have to have an ID to sign a lease on an apartment or to have a checking account. Who is being cut out of their right to vote? People that don't know who or what they are voting for except for what some democrat told them when they picked them up from the park or senior center, fed them a meal and told them they should vote democratic because they'd get more hand outs.
It is a very good idea to identify the person who is voting. The problem is in the details of what is required by the Politicians to prove who you are and can you vote.
Look at Ohio, they are making a mockery out of the Election Laws by changing the time allowed to vote based upon how the County voted in the last election.
States are saying you can't vote because you did not vote in the last Election.
States are saying you can't vote because you have a different address on your License than is on the voting rolls.
States are requireing a Drivers License or State Issued Identification ( Fee driven) to qualify.
You can see the problem.
If the Federal Government were allowed to establish a uniform ID system for the States the problem would get solved. That is not going to happen. The local Politicians want control of who votes!!!!
Typical NBC biased report: Common sense tells all American citizens that showing an ID to vote is a basic no-brainer; but NBC says that belief is only because we are "ill informed" and "don't understand the effects".
YES WE DO UNDERSTAND THE EFFECTS OF DEAD PEOPLE AND ILLEGAL ALIENS VOTING!
It doesn't really matter if it is 10%, 1%, or .000001%. They just don't have the right to vote, and showing that you are who you say you are is the minimum requirement for ANYTHING.
Really, "common sense?" Like the kind of "common sense" about illegals and dead people voting which has been debunked numerous times?
How long have you been alive? In how many elections did you have to use an ID to vote? Why are you all so upset about this issue now?
Follow the money, folks.
Why do those mean old Republicans want to DISENFRANCHISE people just because they are dead or aren't really American citizens ?!?
Oh! The Humanity!!!
Right, because these people are already presenting IDs at the polls. If they want to vote illegally, then they will get a fake photo ID. If they already has stolen the identity of a dead person, then fake IDs are much easier to obtain.
zieg...
No if they want to vote ilegally all they have to do now is walk in & say a name of someone on the list.
And actually if these laws don't get put into effect then my plan is to vote quite often.
I have a friendly critique: when you post things in bold font it implies you can't get attention by virtue of merit. This gets you ignored by a lot of the people you'd like to reach, and it makes them more likely to discount your opinion in future posts.
Nice-
Where are you voting?
You have to present more than your name to vote, according to any state.
Zieg -
Thats not true. All I have to do when I vote is tell them my name & they put a check mark by my name on the list. I vote in Iowa but I am not going to be specific because I want to offset some of the voter fraud on the left by doing some voter fraud of my own. If nothing else it will allow me to tell all you liberals about the voter fraud that is happenning.
FeO2 - just a friendly tip, telling people how & what to type gets you looked at as an A$$hole.
Nice,
You're not very...
Nice-
Okay, I will give you Iowa. I've just looked up their requirements and am disheartened by them. This is by no means the normal voter ID requirements. Most every state requires your ID to be verified through a variety of different means. That Iowa does not and still only has a turnout of 70% means that voter fraud may occur, but certainly is not a huge issue.
GLOBALOVE & KTLIN.... Suppress Votes????
GLOBALOVE & KTLIN, ok you've convinced me to become a liberal.
I am now an official Liberal & here are my liberal thoughts.... NO VOTER ID!
I believe it is wrong to ask people to prove the following things (just because they want to vote):
1. Prove who they are.
2. Prove that they are a citizen
3. Prove that they have not already voted
4. Prove that they are alive
5. Prove that they have not already voted
6. Prove that they are old enough
7. Prove that they are not a felon
8. Prove that they have not already voted
9. Prove that they haven't been born yet.
10. Prove that they are responsible enough to carry ID's
11. Prove that they have not already voted
12. Prove what color they are
13. Prove they are "rich enough" to afford the free ID's which don't cost anything, that are free... (You stupid rich right wing freak nut job snob wealthy look down your nose nut job freak balls!)
14. Prove that they have not already voted
You racist pigs make me sick. UGHHHHHH I am so mad!!! What about the CHILDREN!!!! God bless you Mr. President & thank you for my roads!!!!!! (speaking of which, since I have been using those roads... can I please have my successful business mailed to me?)
Thank You Mr. President. I LOVE YOU!!!! LOVE YOU !!! LUV YA MR PRESIDENT!
GOOOOOO Government!
HEY Romney!!!! SHOW US YOUR Tax SLIPS, or tax forms, or tax brochures, or tax cards, or whatever they are (I am a little unsure what the official term for the tax paperwork is called because I am one of the 48% who don't pay any federal income tax). BUT SHOW US YOURS ROMNEY!!! YEAH
An entire post in bold type must equal truth to some...even if the words themselves are a complete load of crap.
culheath - Why ... Because you once again disagree with them ?
Culheath ..
Whatever do you mean? I am on your side! I am a liberal & believe as you do. What specifically about that post is wrong? please educate me on how to be a good little liberal. Please!!!
I am sooo sorry about the bold (i won't do it again)... please forgive me.
Now what were you saying about the actual topic? Ohhhh thats right .... nothing, you were complaining about font. Is that what good liberals do? avoid discussing the issues?
Yeah that's something a real liberal would say. hahahaha
rightwingscrewball,
I can see your handle is apt. I live in my own house with no dogs. Keep trying though, sooner or later you'll have me pegged even if just by accident.
There's isn't a problem with voter id. The problem is implementing such a system. You need to implement it in a way so that it does not prevent anybody who wants to and would be voting. To successfully implement voter id, you need to have a system where people could get a voter id in a reasonable time and cost. How many people will need a voter id, how many minutes does a person spend actually taking photos and getting a voter id, how much does a person need to pay for the voter id. These parameters and more need to be taken into account to determine when voter id can be actually implemented in an election. It will probably be a year or two between the time voter id is determined to be implemented and the first election that it is.
Otherwise, it could well be a case of voter suppression.
Marshall -
what? You think the problem is "implementing such a system"? ok how about any state or federal approved id with a picture? Lets have that count (that would pretty much cover 99.8% of the population).
For the rest of the people we could (try to follow me now) build a bunch of buildings and have state and federal workers stationed there to issue ID's with pictures on them. We could call them DMV offices or Courthouses or the Public Fickin Library. OHHHH we have those!!!!
If you have trouble getting an id because it is too difficult you will have just as much trouble voting at all.
You are the same type of idiot who thinks its NO PROBLEM at all for the federal government to "implement a system" for Healthcare (you know 300 million peoples individual health needs, health issues, health concerns, and how each & every one of those people should be treated, processed, paid for, documented & set up in a system).
You liberals are a joke & your arguments are blatanly transparent. You need the corruption to win. You need to enslave an ever growing number of people on welfare to buy votes. Sad & Sick.
Gee, that 99.8% figure seems to be wrong given that hundreds of thousands of people in each state, adding up to millions nationally are affected by these changes in ID requirements.
Culheath...
thats your sticking point? that my percentages aren't correct? LOL
Ok lets go with your numbers and say 30 million people dont have ID's or 60 million... thats 20% of the population. sooooo fing what?
The argument is the same regardless of your wanting to change the subject...
I don't know if you are who you say you are or if you are legally voting unless you can verify who you are!!
Nice-
Fine, let's call these mythical places DMVs. If you don't have a photo ID, how do you get to the said DMV? Drive? No. You have to rely on public transportation or friends/family. Fine, let's say you get to the DMV, but you are elderly on limited income. This means that once you get to the DMV you have to pay for your card, about 17 dollars in most states. So, you pay 17 dollars, but that means that you don't have the money to pay for food for the next two days. Yep, this is not seeking to disenfranchise anyone.
Let's take a different scenario. Instead of being elderly, you are a low-income individual living/working in a small town...which has no DMV. So, now how do you get there? Well, you get your buddy to drive you, but because you both make minimum wage, the drive is not insignificant cost to either of you. Additionally, you have to take some time off of work, because the DMV, especially is small towns/counties, are only open during working hours. So you have to pay 17 dollars, which is about 2.5 hours income. Plus, add in the time waiting for the DMV (at least half an hour), plus add in the driving time, plus add in the fact that you have to pay for gas, and finally, take into account the fact that most minimum wage jobs don't allow you to take off the morning or afternoon, but just require you to miss work. So all told, this could be anywhere from about 4 hours of wages(including missed) or 10 hours(including full day off of work and cost of card). Ten hours of work is huge for people making the minimum wage. This doesn't sound like disenfranchisement at all, does it?
The important thing to note is that states already require ID. This would eliminate anyone without a photo ID.
What is considered reasonable time? The article said 18 states passed laws in 2010. Is 2 years not long enough?
This is the same BS reason the liberals use while not wanting a e-verify system in the work place which by the way uses the social security database that issues over 100 million checks monthly.
zieglo...
since you are so concerned with the elderly, poor, etc... why not add $50.00 to that piece of Shjt low income tax credit redistribution plan for all low income people who can provide receipts for the expense. I am fine with that.
Again, you think its about voter suppression. ITS NOT! Its about voter fraud.
BTW... You think the government can manage every americans health care but can't get them an photo id card? Your lack of faith in the all powerful, all knowing government makes me ashamed to call you a socialist pig!!! Shame.
That would leave 32 states that didn't. Obviously the complaints are about the states that are trying to implement these requirements weeks before the next federal election. That doesn't raise any flags for you?
@ culheath: I've been following your posts with considerable interest.
I happen to agree with your stance on this, but the whole debate is a demonstration in microcosm of one of the most interesting elements of the partisan divide- and element putting me on the left in many cases.
That element is the humorous patience with which you've attempted to convey your position- and the overweening arrogance, profound ignorance, frothing hatred, and lack of any logical consistency often (not always) demonstrated by those who disagree with you.
Thanks for trying- because the option is another civil war.
Thanks, FeO2 and back atcha.
All in all, they're just another brick in the wall...so it goes. :)
Oh, and regarding the civil war thingy...they'll lose this time too, they always have and always will. Nothing is more relentless than social progress.
FeO2 -
The fact that you agree with the liberal voter ID argument shows that you either have no depth of understanding regarding the actual concern or that you are purposefully trying to perpetuate the problem. If the latter is the case; why would someone from the left attempt to ensure that voter fraud and corruption continue to exist? You obviously recognize the lefts advantages of illegal & corrupt voting ID laws in order to ensure enough votes to advance your liberal agenda and shackle the American populous in the binds of government control. Knowing full well that rampant poverty is the only logical end to socialism, it must bring you great joy to know that the ever tightening hand of the all powerful grasping government will be able to strangle the final individual freedom, life, & liberty from this country as we gasp our last breath.
Congrats, quite a plan there Spanky!
You are correct about one thing. Civil War may be the last resort.
If so, the battle lines will fall between those who fight for their right to make decisions, care, and provide for themselves (the right) ...vs.... those who fight for their right to be "taken care of" by society and others (the left). Sadly for you, I doubt your side (the left) will show enough initiative or effort to rise from their government provided housing slum/project beds and actually fight for their right of everlasting infancy (most likely they will assume someone else will "take care of" it for them).
Speaking of Civil War -
Slavery is dead my liberal friends, I know you don't like it, but the North (Republicans) have won & slavery is abolished. So I say, let the citizens of this great country be free from slavery once & for all. We Republicans have worked too hard to allow liberals to push us back into the cage of government slavery. Do not fall into the liberal trap of giving up your freedom and control in exchange for bribes and promises of comfort, treasures, & security. Slavery of every kind must be abolished (including government slavery & control). Let men be free to lead their own lives. Liberals, I beg you, get over your racism, jealousy, & hatred. Enjoy the freedom that can be yours if you just refuse to be shackled by empty government promises/handouts. Liberals stop the racism you display everyday when you segregate people with diversity labels. Help conservatives bring all US citizens together in commonality. Liberals stop searching for what separates us and incessantly labeling our differences in order to keep us separate from each other. Instead celebrate what we have in common! Celebrate what we share! Hallelujah.
wow, you guys (culheath and FeO2Dreams) should go pick out curtains, and have a good old fashioned 'love in'. At least somebody agrees with you...Anyway, I've also been following your posts on this issue, and every time I was going to respond, I'd find something you wrote even more absurd and condesencing. You must write this stuff down and fall in love with yourself for writing it. I see that you are an atheist. Predictable. Hell, I'm a lapsed Catholic myself so I should'nt talk...(go ahead and dispense with the 'pedophile priest' comment that's sure to be forthcoming from you, I think that's a little too mainline from someone of your obvious intellect).
What did really catch my eye though was that you said earlier that you were "actually a business owner". You were doing fine until here!! Why the deception? Was it to give you street creds? It was an obvious fraud on your part. Obvious...and as someone who checks his words as thoroughly as you do, I'm a little suprised you didn't catch it yourself. Hell I could tell by the very way you wrote it. It had NONE of the conviction of any of your other comments. It was almost apologetic even. None of the self-righteous, condescening zeal to which you respond to everyone, save for your 'curtains' buddy...
So, come on man, cop to what you really are... a flaming liberal, probably with NO job, who's either still in college, or just out, and living with mom and dad. It's nothing to be ashamed of bro. A lot of kids are in your position because of this fool in the whitehouse. It was inevitable. Anyway, if your'e wondering how I know this? It's simple. No 'real' business owner in their right mind would say some of the drivel that you've said here. A real business owner would be in complete agreement with this very worthwhile reform in order to get the playing field leveled. They are being killed by this admin.
Yes, exactly, why the deception? There was no deception...except on your part deceiving yourself.
I own a business and you obviously have no idea what many business owners think. Not everyone who owns a business is Republican or conservative, just as all seriously wealthy people are not conservative or Republican. Just the fact that you think so indicates you are brainwashed by your conservative echo chamber. You should get out in the real world once in a while and realize that you have been living in a FOX News bubble.
Also, I found it strange that you found two posters being friendly to one another an indication that they were gay. I think you have a problem.
The people on the right posting on this vine keep implying that all the liberals are unemployed living on welfare. I find this funny since more people living on welfare live in "red states" than live in "blue states". REd states take from teh fed more than they give in while blue states give in more and take less. Surely that is not the personal responsibility that you tout in action.
Why do you think that is? It can't be that all these people are democrats because why would they be red states surely democrats would elect democrats.
So I put it to you conservatives posting on the vine: Why do the states run by republicans take more from the federal government then they put in?
@ Nice-2149067 : You say:
"You either have no depth of understanding regarding the actual concern or that you are purposefully trying to perpetuate the problem."
I understand it perfectly- you want to win elections based on institutionalized vote suppression, and you believe I'm willing to tolerate the resurrection of the Jim Crow laws.
I have no interest in perpetuating something that exists only in your fevered imagination- voter fraud on a small scale is no issue.
If you claim otherwise, show proof beyond your misinformed and unsubstantiated opinion.
Voter fraud on a large scale- an institutional scale- is huge by definition.
Gore lost the election over it. Jeb Bush had his puppet disqualify fifty thousand Floridian voters- enough to put the electoral college votes of that state behind his brother- like some third world despot rigging an African election.
It was despicable- and acceptable, apparently.
By the way, slavery is far from dead; just because the Republicans were a rather different and far more ethical party under Lincoln gives you no right to sully his reputation by claiming an affiliation.
Ask anyone now doing the work of three for half the wages- and you'll understand that it's been reinvented under the guise of "employment" by a creeping southern conservatism- and there are still plenty of tall white mansions and little shacks to prove it.
The balance of your post rests on assumptions I just debunked for you.
Oh...Aardvark of doom...sorry. Epic fail. In the real world, you have to respect someone before they can successfully insult you.
Among those who actually know you, that demographic would likely be solely comprised of your dog- who's likely just faking it until you're too drunk to fight him off.
Thanks for according me what I can't reciprocate- being hated by you is high praise indeed.
Iron Oxide,
Oh Snap! :)
GOP needs to find a way to get photo ids for all voters who do not drive. We register and are verfied by our signatures here. Has there ever been any real fraud..except losing voting machines and/ror ballots?
“African Americans bring up race only when they need to make an excuse for their failure.”
That's the only time Obama brings it up.....
Huh? Did you think that was relevant?
If you actually read the article, you will find it's a direct quote.
I saw it, I just don't get the relevance to Obama.
I think you're beginning to really like me.
I love the liberal explanation. If the majority of the public likes something they don't it must be because they are uninformed. And disenfranchised?!?!!? Yes I am sure there are some people that do not have an ID, so as most states do when this law is implemented they eitehr have other forms of ID (utility bills or birth certificate) and/or they have arranged for people to get free state ID's. Where does the disenfranchised come in?!?!?
Logical? Ya, changing the rules in the middle of the game is LOGICAL.
If you're elderly, fought for your country in two wars and have an invalid/ expired drivers license and have voted for the last fifty years... YOU DON'T COUNT NOW!!!
The Repukes have decided to change the laws right before elections.
No where, no where, no where in this country IS THERE FREE PICTURE ID'S. Get up the money, find a location and if you don't drive,, spend more to take a cab or find someone to get you to the location where you can get your new ID. Hundreds of senior citizens will have to do this.
Global love,
You are concerned about the cab fee & $7.00 for a photo id, but are you ok with a system that tracks each & every persons health care?
What's the cab fee to travel 15 to 20 miles? No ID costs $7.00 either. What;s the cost to get replicates of birth certificates from another state, if they still exist after that major town hall fire back in 1962?
That is the weakest argument I have ever heard. First of all why would the Republican party want to discriminate agains the elderly? Most of the elderly are conservative Republicans.
Voting for a President is not a game, so what is this BS about changing the rules? We change laws all the time, that is what a progressive government does, so if you really are a Democrat and want progressive government then don't complain about "Rule Changing".
You made the piont, no where is there a free picture ID, so people who collect welfare need an ID to get their welfare cards and checks. Senior citizens need an ID to get Medicare, the poor still need ID's, that is just a fact of society.
The real problem here is that those who don't want voter ID's are the ones who benefit from not having them. Illegal immigrants (who do have ID's, illegal ones, and they pay alot for those), they will vote for whomever tells them they can stay in the country illegally.
The poor - many of whom will vote based on who will provide them the most help, (I'm okay with that), but then don't offer the right kind of help to them.
uh, "globalove!", I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you don't give a rat's ass about military, wars, and certainly not our WWII vets. If you did, you would understand that these guys would be the FIRST people to have their id's in order, and are probably the FIRST people to be at their polling station. They remember what they fought for, and you and your ilk are an affront to the very freedom and liberty that they gave to us. So, with all due respect sir, stf up...
You've polled that have you? Ever been to Florida? Obviously not.
You know, it's weird but young Democrats eventually turn into old Democrats.
Ok, This just sounds like another expense to be pass on the all of us who pay taxes. How are they going to create these IDS and distribute them? How much will that cost us? Wouldn't our driver's license be ID enough or if you don't have one you can obtain just a photo ID from the sheriff's office. Most people already have one of these, even my mom who has never driven has one. Just say'n.
Yes, your driver's license if enough. As long as it is a government issued photo ID.
Cant believe this is even debatable.....only way to verify one vote for one person is to have some sort of an id. I still remember the hand inspections of the hanging chads to ensure an accurate count yet now some are against a simple id's. I'd bet that if there were conservatives busing people across state lines to vote, the progressives would lose their sh*t!
What's wrong with a current utility bill as ID along with one other form like a SS card and say a record of having voted for 40 or 50 years prior?
What's wrong? A utility bill cost money. The voter ID's are free in most, if not all, states. You tell me which is more universal.
State picture ID's are not FREE. Anywhere from $40.- $100 dollars!
A SS card and two utility bills (same name, same address) are what WAS required to register to vote in my state.
Matt-
Tell me which states have free photo IDs, please? I've heard of this, but have not be able to find many. The states that I've found are WI, PA, and GA.
culheath - Utility bill ... Really ? I know more than one unsavory character that has utility bills in the names of children and ex's without the utilities ( or person's ) knowledge ... So using those "bills" ... (that would be legalized fraud ) ... this is your answer ? You are missing your calling as a politician.
Your name is only the utility bill if you're the one paying it. How about everybody else in the house? This isnt the "leave it to beaver" crowd ya know.
IT is not discrimination... This is just liberal fear mongering.. NO substance just slander.. thats the political way.
like are we that powerful that we can instill fear, lol. Can't spell stupid without "u" (you) in the middle of it. Oh yes Obama will be re-elected, don't be scared it will be all right. Even with all the junk the conservatives and teabaggers try and tell us they can't bring fear cause we know better, Obama is the man.
lu,
Try convincing the people that have already passed 99 weeks......
This is the perfect example of INSANITY! We are required to show a photo i.d. for SO MANY THINGS and the thought that voting should be an exception is freaking mind boggling. Living near Chicago, there have been DOCUMENTED cases of DEAD people voting!
Anyone who is against this is an idiot plain and simple.
And unions retaliating against their members who voted wrong via absentee ballots opened by union "volunteers."