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Subscribe to RSSFrom a continuing series of articles, Who Can Vote: a News21 investigation of voting rights in America. Read the previous article, Poll: Most favor Voter ID laws, but public awareness of their effect is low.
By Nick Andersen, Kassondra Cloos and Caitlin O’Donnell, News21
New voter ID requirements in Alabama have stirred a debate: Will the requirement disenfranchise black voters, particularly the elderly? A black voter registration worker, Danita Agee, is registering voters and helping them get IDs in Pratt City, Ala. A white state legislator says the idea that anyone will be disenfranchised is "a bogus argument." Produced by Khara Persad and Jack Fitzpatrick/News21.
Raymond Rutherford has voted for decades. But this year, he doesn’t know if he’ll be able to cast a ballot.
The Sumter, S.C., resident, 59, has never had a government-issued photo ID because a midwife’s error listed him as Ramon Croskey on his birth certificate. It’s wrong on his Social Security card, too.
Rutherford has tried to find the time and money to correct his birth certificate as he waits to see if the photo voter ID law is upheld by a three-judge U.S. District Court panel, scheduled to convene in Washington, D.C., in late September.
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In June, South Carolina officials indicated in federal court filings that they will quickly implement the law before the November election if it is upheld. Voters without photo ID by November would be able to sign an affidavit explaining why they could not get an ID in time.
An estimated 81,983 voters in South Carolina do not possess a government-issued photo ID, mainly because of missing or inaccurate personal documents. These are mostly elderly, black longtime residents.
South Carolina’s photo voter ID law is similar to a series of restrictive election measures passed by Republican-controlled state legislatures in states of the former Confederacy, including Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, Tennessee and Virginia. North Carolina’s General Assembly failed to override Democratic Gov. Bev Perdue’s veto of a photo voter ID bill.
Opponents of photo voter ID in South Carolina point to thousands of primarily black, elderly residents who don't have access to the necessary paperwork, such as birth certificates, to obtain a government-issued photo ID. If the state's photo ID bill is upheld in federal court later this year, these voters would be unable to cast a ballot in the November election. Produced by Caitlin O'Donnell/News21.
Thirty-seven states have considered photo voter ID laws since 2010. In November, five states — Georgia, Indiana, Tennessee, Kansas and Pennsylvania — will vote under new strict photo voter ID laws. A judge soon could decide whether the Pennsylvania law violates the state constitution, as voting rights advocates claim.
Pa. judge refuses to block state's voter ID law
Supporters argue the laws are important protections against in-person voter impersonation fraud, but civil rights organizations and election historians see evidence of a more sinister legacy. Obtaining certificates of birth, marriage and divorce needed to get a proper photo ID can be an obstacle for otherwise eligible and longtime voters like Rutherford.
“Today, there are more laws restricting access to polls" than at the time of the "initial passage of the Voting Rights Act,” said J. Morgan Kousser, professor of history and social science at the California Institute of Technology and author of two books on race and voting rights in the South.
The Voting Rights Act requires local governments with a history of voting rights discrimination to get U.S. Department of Justice approval for changes to their election laws. The federal law faces a sustained legal challenge. Voting-rights supporters call those challenges an uncomfortable reminder of the poll taxes and literacy tests that prompted the law in the days of Jim Crow.
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Who can vote? A national News21 investigation of voting rights in America. |
States such as Georgia and Indiana point to increased turnouts across all demographic categories in the 2008 election compared to elections immediately before the states passed photo voter ID laws.
Kousser said such comparisons are moot because of the unprecedented enthusiasm that Barack Obama generated among young and minority voters. A July 2012 National Urban League study showed that black voters tipped the election for Obama in North Carolina, Indiana, Virginia and Florida.
“People died for the right to vote — friends of mine, colleagues of mine,” Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., said in a May 9 House floor speech on an amendment to cut federal spending for Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act. The amendment was withdrawn.
Lewis was a pivotal figure in the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s. He was beaten severely on March 7, 1965, called Bloody Sunday for the attack by Alabama state troopers on about 600 voting rights marchers after they crossed the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Ala., on the way to Montgomery. The attack on the nonviolent protesters was so brutal that historians credit the day with swaying votes in favor of the 1965 Voting Rights Act.
The fight today is in federal court. The state of Texas and the Department of Justice clashed over that state’s photo voter ID in U.S. District Court and it could go to the Supreme Court. In another case, an Alabama county attorney said he would take his legal challenge of the Voting Rights Act to the highest court possible.
A July report from the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law, a public policy group that opposed many of the voting rule changes nationally, estimated that more than 10 million eligible voters nationwide live more than 10 miles from a state center that issues IDs.
Seven of the 10 states with photo voter ID are among the lowest-ranked states for public transportation funding. ID centers in many Southern states have limited or reduced hours in rural counties with high concentrations of minority residents.
“I reckon it’s like back during the days when they were slaves and couldn’t do nothing unless their masters signed for it,” Rutherford said. “They didn’t have proof what their name was, they took whatever name their masters gave them. It seems to me they’re trying to send us years back where they can control who we vote for.”
The tide of Southern election changes began in Georgia in 2005. Former state Rep. Sue Burmeister, a Republican, introduced a photo voter ID bill that quickly became the target of Democratic attacks and lawsuits.
“It was never my intent to try to make it harder for people to vote,” Burmeister said in an interview. She had heard stories of fraud in the state from members of both political parties, she said.
“I just grew up believing that it was very important that all people voted,” she said. “Yet, I didn’t want people voting two or three times to take away the votes.”
Gov. Sonny Perdue signed the bill into law in January 2006. Georgia, which falls under Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, adopted changes to the law intended to avoid getting blocked by the Justice Department. Free voter identification cards and an expansive voter education program were among the changes Georgia lawmakers used to win the approval called preclearance. The state increased election education funds from $50,000 to $500,000 in 2008, when the law first took effect, according to the secretary of state’s budget.
The Georgia law was cleared by President George W. Bush’s Justice Department.
News21 is a program of the Carnegie Corporation of New York and the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation that is helping to change the way journalism is taught in the U.S. and train a new generation of journalists capable of reshaping the news industry. It is headquartered at the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. Since 2006, nearly 500 top journalism students in the U.S. have participated in the landmark national initiative.
South Carolina’s 2011 photo voter ID law became the first election law to be blocked in nearly 20 years. The Texas law also was blocked by President Barack Obama’s Justice Department. Hans von Spakovsky, the former Bush Justice Department lawyer who approved Georgia’s law, has become a leading advocate for photo voter ID laws.
“These are laws to protect voters,” said Matt Carrothers, media relations director for the Georgia secretary of state. And voters largely agree. A March 2012 Elon University poll of 534 people showed that nearly 75 percent of North Carolina residents supported the state’s photo voter ID bill.
North Carolina Republican gubernatorial candidate Pat McCrory has campaigned on photo voter ID. He pledged to enact the failed legislation as a part of his administration.
“The polling is so strong on that issue that it’s easy to build some support when you note that in a long list of issues,” said John Dinan, a political scientist at Wake Forest University. “If you’re in support of voting rights and upset that your party has blocked it, you might look at McCrory.”
Sid Bedingfield, a journalism professor at the University of South Carolina, said the South’s changing demographics tell a different story.
“There is certainly something to be gained from those in power now, especially in states with Republican legislatures, in trying to limit turnout from certain demographic groups,” Bedingfield said.
Most of the states in the South have been sure Republican bets in presidential races since President Richard Nixon’s ‘Southern Strategy’ in the 1972 election. State and local races have been more mixed. The 2010 election placed North Carolina and Alabama legislatures under Republican control for the first time since Reconstruction. Political party caucus shifts moved Louisiana’s House of Representatives to Republican control.
Bedingfield said photo voter ID laws are an attempt to solidify that power shift for years to come in view of an increase in black and Hispanic voters who traditionally vote for the Democratic Party.
“In the long-term, it’s a dead-end strategy that will only cement Democratic Party support among these new groups and create a winning coalition,” Bedingfield said.
Republicans are painting themselves as anti-minority through photo ID laws and demands for citizenship proof to vote, Bedingfield said. That will push even more minorities into the Democratic Party.
Minority voters in the South face additional hurdles this election year.
An extensive purge of suspected ineligible voters that disproportionately targeted minorities in Florida was halted by the Justice Department in June, and a nonpartisan investigator will be appointed to determine why thousands of voters were removed from voting rolls in Tennessee earlier this year.
Florida cut its early voting hours almost in half to save money, state officials said. The state also eliminated early voting on the Sunday before Election Day in November, what had become known as “Souls to the Polls” for the large number of black voters who went straight from church services to vote.
In North Carolina, the Republican-controlled General Assembly used the 2010 congressional and state legislative redistricting process to create controversial minority-majority districts that concentrate black voting power in a reduced number of legislative seats.
“They stacked and packed and bleached black voters out of districts for strictly partisan reasons,” said the Rev. William Barber II, president of the North Carolina National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.
Courts have intervened 24 times in the last 30 years to alter North Carolina redistricting plans, and new lines this year divided hundreds of voting precincts into different districts. This means that neighbors voting in the same precinct may have different people running on their ballots for state and federal races. In some precincts, there were 30 or more different ballots offered during the May 8 primary.
“One precinct in Wake County has more than 17 different kinds of ballots,” said Carol Hazard, a precinct judge in Orange County, N.C., which includes Chapel Hill.
Georgia Secretary of State Brian Kemp and his office have worked to show opponents that targeted demographic suppression is more talk than reality. According to state records, the 2008 election saw Hispanic turnout increase by 140 percent and black voter turnout up 42 percent over 2004.
“These claims that our law is ‘akin to Jim Crow,’ that there is not voter fraud — these are disgustingly racist claims,” said Carrothers, Kemp’s spokesman.
Kemp has promoted the bill to other Southern states. Carrothers is in regular contact with the secretary of state’s office in Tennessee, he said, where a similar photo voter ID law took effect in January.
Tennessee, which is not subject to Section 5 preclearance, has followed a different path to photo voter ID.
Tennessee state Rep. JoAnne Favors already has heard from several voters who don’t have photo ID. The two-term Chattanooga Democrat, who is black, strongly opposed the bill, which could prevent residents — including Favors’ elderly mother — from voting because they lack a birth certificate or government-issued photo ID.
“Most of the people who began to call me when the law was first enacted were elderly white women,” Favors said. “I think that might cause concern for some of the people who did support that bill. They might not realize what they’ve done.”
A report from the Durham, N.C., Institute for Southern Studies — a nonprofit research group for activists, scholars and policy makers — estimates that more than 380,000 Tennessee residents lack the photo ID required in the law. Many of them are elderly voters who have opted for an older, separate state law allowing residents older than 60 to get driver’s licenses without photos.
Legislators passed that law out of concern for “frail” elderly voters unable to easily renew their driver’s licenses. But the photo voter ID law, which permitted “no questions asked” absentee ballots for voters aged 65 and older, left Tennessee voters between 60 and 65 disadvantaged. The “no question” absentee age was lowered to 60 after the state’s March 6 presidential primary.
“What I’m really concerned about are those folks that don’t ask or don’t call and you don’t know where they are,” said Madeleine C. Taylor, executive director of the NAACP in Memphis. “They just say, ‘Well, hey, I’m not going to all the trouble. I’m not going to vote.’”
Unless Favors and other Democratic activists in Tennessee can prove that voters are facing insurmountable difficulties at the ballot box in November, the state’s law will go unchallenged. This frustrates lawyers such as George Barrett of Nashville. He has worked with the American Civil Liberties Union on civil rights cases. Identifying plaintiffs has been nearly impossible, he said.
“It’s more difficult if you’re not under the Voting Rights Act,” Barrett said. “You’ve almost got a prima facie case if you’re under the Voting Rights Act.”
Hedy Weinberg, executive director of the Tennessee ACLU, said this difficulty stems from the photo ID law’s “chilling effect.” Many people shy away from voting or trying to get an ID because they presume they do not have the correct documents.
“Just because we can’t present the individual to you, doesn’t mean there isn’t a pretty serious problem taking place,” Weinberg said.
Opponents of photo ID warn of potentially hundreds of thousands of disenfranchised voters. Supporters allege there’s a great potential for voter impersonation.
Both Carrothers and Kemp in Georgia said that they were surprised to see so few free photo voter ID card applications — 26,506 as of February.
“When the bill passed, opponents said there were hundreds of thousands of citizens who would be unable to vote,” Carrothers said. “Opponents of photo ID keep changing the way they oppose the law, and now they know they can’t oppose the law in Georgia by claiming ‘disenfranchisement.’”
Those legal and public challenges to voter ID laws might be less frequent very soon if lawsuits against the Voting Rights Act in Alabama and Texas go to the Supreme Court.
Frank Ellis Jr., attorney for Shelby County, outside of Birmingham, Ala., has said that Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act is outdated and unconstitutional. Although local demographics in many of the municipalities named in the Voting Rights Act have changed in the nearly 50 years since the law passed, few adjustments have been made to Section 5 preclearance.
“To require governments to spend tens of millions of dollars — local governments that need that money for other purposes, for education, for police protection, for facilities and infrastructure — it’s archaic and out of date,” Ellis said.
Brenda Williams, a physician and civil rights activist in Sumter, S.C., has spent thousands of dollars helping more than 100 local voters prepare for the photo ID law.
For the majority of voters who do not have photo ID, applying means they must pay for required personal documents.
Khara Persad/News21
Danita Agee, 53, secures a banner at a voter registration drive in Pratt City, Ala. She handed out flyers: "Democrats! Go get your I.D. to vote. Start working on that right now. The Republicans are using every trick they can to keep Democrats from voting."
Donna Dubose, 63, was delivered at home by a midwife who recorded her name as Baby Girl Kennedy. She attended college for three years, aided by federal grants. Although financial strains prevented her from graduating, Dubose was trained as a nurse’s aide and retired about a decade ago.
“My life wasn’t a pleasant road,” Dubose said. “But in my mind all I wanted to do was take care of people.”
With the help of Williams and attorney Murrell Smith, a Republican state representative who voted in favor of photo voter ID, Dubose obtained a corrected birth certificate and a government-issued photo ID.
Williams is now helping Dubose’s husband, James, who lost his personal documents when his childhood home burned. James Dubose, a former railroad worker who is illiterate, has voted for the majority of his life and said he has never been asked to show a photo ID at the polls.
“It makes me really frustrated to not be able to vote all of a sudden,” James Dubose, 75, said.
Williams has been registering voters with her husband, Joe, for the 30 years she has owned the Excelsior Medical Clinic. Many elderly, rural voters in and around Sumter do not have access to photo ID, Williams said. The majority of these voters were born at a time when hospitals refused black patients and babies were delivered at home, and their births were not recorded accurately.
“I know scores of people who have never had government-issued photo identification,” Williams said. “They’re not criminals, never broken any laws, never been incarcerated. They don’t have photo ID because of rules made years, decades ago.”
Williams carries an NAACP membership card issued for $2 to her father, Frederick Chapman, in 1961. A message printed on the back, part of the association’s mission, is particularly close to her heart: “To secure a free ballot for every qualified American citizen.”
Half a century later, Williams said she is still willing to fight for that right.
“It’s so frustrating trying to help poor people, people who are indigent, people who have low self-esteem, people who have a low sense of self-worth,” she said. “The majority of our society and nation couldn’t care less about poor folk.”
Raymond Rutherford, a Sumter, S.C., said he has let checks go uncashed because he didn’t have a photo ID. With Williams’ help, the Sumter, S.C., Walmart store employee, isn’t waiting for courts and legislatures to agree on the legality of photo voter ID.
“As a citizen, I think everyone should vote,” Rutherford said. “If you don’t get out there and vote, who’s going to talk for you? We can’t talk for ourselves because nobody is going to listen, so we have to put someone there to help us.”
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Leave a Comment:
Everyone should have some form of identification with a picture. I am asked for mine everyday.
Why didn't this man take care of business from the get-go once he learned there was a problem.
The first time I got my SS card there was a typo in my name. I immediately went to the SS office and had them to correct it for me.
This man should have done the same. There is no excuse for being LAZY or a PROCRASTINATOR.
Did you read this article at all? The point is that either people do not have birth certificates and other documents they would need under these ID voting laws, or the burden to obtain them is so great it is an undue burden and so they give up. These laws are deliberate voter disenfrachisement and should be outlawed by the Supreme Court. Shame on my country.
dzygote
Yes I read the article, but if you don't have your birth certificate, then the person should have looked into it and got it taken care of.
I think if they voted the last time, they should be allowed to vote again, but Robme and his hoard want to try and cripple as many voters from voting if they can.
A lot of people don't have birth certificates. I had a friend years ago that didn't know his birthday. He had no record of his birth and didn't know who his parents were. Just saying, it's not always that simple. The Republican right are a vicious, nasty lot. I think its better to point that out than suggesting the elderly man is a lazy procrastinator.
he's 59 hardly elderly
Fine, 59. That should not detract from my point.
Are you telling me all these folks have been without driver's licenses or any form of id all these years? Something doesn't add up.
Everyone should have identification. I show mine to someone for something about everyday. If it is needed for any number of minor transactions in my personal and daily life then it should certainly be required to cast a vote in MY COUNTRY. Not having an ID at 59 only shows that there was little if any concern to obtain one earlier in life and as it hasn't been a problem throughout life for any of the other minor transactions it should not be the focus of a news commentary on the injustice of not having an ID card to vote with. If there is anything fishy about your identity at MY COUNTRY's polling booths you should not get a vote. Get off your butts, get your papers in order and get an ID card or do not plan on voting it is up to you; not me or my government to allow you to vote because of an identity problems. Anyone that has nothing to hide should not have a probelms with showing an identification card to vote. Shame on you and others like you that demand it. If you want to do something to help out then write an article on how these poor disadvantaged people might resolve their problems with obtaining an identification card.
I have always had to provide photo ID, even when registering to vote at 18; I am now 45. Blaming this on the Republicans is rediculous. It isn't to keep poor black votes away from the election, it's to make sure that the people voting are who they say they are,and to keep people from voting more than once. I live in California (a major democratic state) and we have had that law for decades. If this reporter really wanted to help, he should provide with the article the steps to fix this situation. He isn't afraid of government.
There is help available for these cituations. Start with a phone call to social security and ask a friend who isn't afraid to help. Paperwork is probably available on line.
59? Viet Nam was going on when he was of age to register for the draft. So I suppose he didn't do that either? Never served in the military? This story has so many holes it's pathetic. It's very easy to get a birth certificate, or any other legal document...such as a DRIVERS LICENSE...what? This guy has never had one of those either?
All you libs who are complaining about having to show your ID to vote are insane. I've been voting for over 30 years. I have shown my ID each and every time I voted. Exactly where are these places that one can vote without some form of ID?
You register to vote...showing your ID. You get assigned to a voting precint. You go there...and only there to vote...showing your ID and they check your name off the list.
How the heck else are you supposed to verify who it is that is voting at any given place or moment? What? We don't need to verify someone is eligible to vote? We don't need to know if they are even registered in this precint? We don't need to know if they have already voted?
You're insane.
ID’s are required in almost everything we do these days. If the dems and the repugnant people at the ACLU were really worried about everyone’s right to vote, they would put their money and time where their mouth is and help them get what they need rather than playing the race card at every turn. Chances are, if you started a volunteer voter assistance program, you would have tons of people, from both sides of the isle, out helping.
But then again, doing that would take away the “evil” you are trying to paint the conservatives with and we can’t have that now can we...
For years I voted in the one-room schoolhouse located on the edge of a field 2 miles from my parents' farm, heated by a humongous wood stove. Nobody showed ID, and if you hadn't appeared by suppertime someone in the township would call to remind you to get over there. When I moved to a city of 100,000 people, I couldn't find my driver's license and brought a copy of my electric bill to get into the precinct book. For many elections they would simply look up my name in the precinct book. Now the book is on a computer and now I have to show ID. So far, in my state, you can fill out an affidavit of residency or I believe you can be vouched for by another voter who does have ID--we are the only state where you do not have to register before election day.
Why do all the dems/libs assume republicans are trying to prevent people from voting? For that matter, why the assumption that anyone who doesn't have/can't get an ID must not be republican? I strongly support the photo ID voter laws because I remember all the stories about dead people voting, that type of fraud. In Florida a few years back the entire ballot almost had to be wiped out and everyone had to vote again because the voter fraud was so bad.... stuffed ballot boxes and all that. THAT is what the republicans are trying to prevent. Stop being such damn haters all the time.
How convenient to come up with such a law with a black president when the minority vote means even more than ever before and when there has not been any epidemic of voter fraud to warrant bringing it to the forefront till now.
Why do u think this law is coming to light now as an election is approaching when voting fraud has never been a problem ? Get your head out of the ground, man.
I don't know what part of California Cindi lives in but I have lived here my whole life and never once showed any identification. We NEED an ID LAW for voting. How humiliating it must be for everyone to assume that this law would hurt black people. What, are they supposed to be unable to figure out how to get an ID? Give them, and everyone else some credit please. You can't live without ID - even in the article he gets a check but doesn't cash it??? Really???? Smells fishy to me - just another way to try and sway the vote. If they aren't planning, and counting on, cheating then why not ID our voters? Just common sense!!
This article is nothing but pure B******. The Voter I.D. Law(s) has/have nothing to do with RACE.
The Voter I.D. law will only determine would only confirm that a person is eligible to vote. I do not want some Illegal Alien (Immigrant) casting a vote within the United States of America. Apparently, that is what the Democrats~Liberals want.
The Democrats~Liberals should be on-board with this one. If NOT, they are totally and completely Un-American.
I guess the gentleman never registered for Selective Service, served in the military, opened a bank account, had a driver's license, applied for social services/assistence, etc. Most states have set up a program to give free state IDs to those who need one. I can empathize with him but he brought it on himself. He had years to correct his birth certificate and didn't bother. The article was written with a biased slant (what else is new?) by left leaning NBC writers. I wonder if Obama approved this? Hmmmmm???
These laws are coming to light now because identity theft (which is what voter fraud is) is running rampant. In this day and age, if you do not have photo id, something is terribly wrong. You need it for so many things - to purchase alcohol, tobacco, open a bank acct, write a check, cash a check, get a library card, gain access to office buildings, etc. How difficult do you think it is to check the obituaries over a recent period of time and show up at the polls and vote as that deceased person? Who would know unless someone who knew that person died checked to see if they had voted? Back when it was more common for people to be born at home, there were ways to authenticate identity...baptism records, sworn affidavits from ministers, family doctors, teachers, etc. who knew the person over a period of time.
As a legal citizen of this country, you have the right to vote. As a legal citizen of this country, I have a right to know that my vote is not being marginalized by illegal votes. Every citizen should be required to have state issued identification. The gentleman in this article should have addressed the inconsistency with his birth certificate and SS card years ago. He is over 50, and is well aware that there is an error. There are ways to address these sorts of errors. If his legal documentation is incorrect, how can he ever receive any government services? If his SS card is incorrect, is it legal for him to receive benefits?
The excuse that to get photo id places a burden on someone is unacceptable. With rights come certain responsibilities. This is one of them. To claim that this violates voting laws is ridiculous. Are you being asked to pass a test to vote? No. Are you being told you have to pay to vote? No. Are you being told you need to have an ID that's only purpose is so you can vote? No.
Every adult U.S. citizen should have a government issue ID in this country. And ONLY U.S. citizens should have the privilege to vote... It's that simple.
If you think this has something to do with race or political parties, you must be an idiot... It's that simple.
Did you like that race-baiting title. Preventing 'blacks' from voting. As if a white person couldn't be in the same predicament.
Isn't it funny how all the Dem/Lib organizations can jump through hoops and fall all over themselves getting people registered to vote and then providing transportation to the polls, but taking someone to get a free photo ID, it's OMG!....THE HORROR!!!!
"Will new photo ID laws keep down the black vote in the South?"
So Liberals expect blacks to not be capable of acquiring an ID?
What about having illegal immigrants cancel out the votes of black citizens? Do you think that will "keep down the black vote"? Oh, right, you are assuming they are all ignorant enough to vote for Obama so therefor it is OK.
Considering the number of people that died to make sure we have the right to vote, I wouldn't think it would be to much to ask that people take a little time out of their life to get the right paperwork in order or is that just to much to give for your right to vote?
MQ1968 - "If you think this has something to do with race or political parties, you must be an idiot... It's that simple."
This has everything to do with political parties, not the law, but the opposition to it. Democrats know that their anti-America agenda requires them to import foreigners to vote for them.
pjam09, I do agree with you on that.
Questions:
Q) How on earth did this Mr. Raymond Rutherford get a voter registration card under the name Raymond Rutherford if all official documents seem to say Ramon Croskey?
A) ACORN questionable/illegal "registrations" perhaps? This is one example of exactly why we need voter ID laws...guys like Rutherford with one or more aliases.
Q) Why doesn't Mr. "Rutherford" simply get a voter registration as Ramon Croskey until he can clear things up?
A) Sounds like a whole bunch of excuse making. If he truly wants to vote the answer is as simple as getting a voter registration card under his LEGAL NAME.
There is quite a difference betwen Raymond Rutherford and Ramon Croskey. Is he even sure who he is? Seriously. He needs to take care of it before he hits Social Security/Medicare retirement age anyway, or they will reject him.
Either way, he can take his social security card to a state DL office and get his photo id and vote even if it is in the wrong name.
Can't imagine why anyone thinks it would hold back blacks from voting, unless they are here illegally. The only people it will keep from voting will be those here illegally. Chew on that one for a while.
I find the race baiting and partisan moaning as vulgar and unfortunate as I do the fact a subsection of presumed US citizens are unable to receive correct and valid identification. The organizations who are bemoaning the ID requirement should focus less on press conferences and media soundbites and more on providing the citizens impacted with sound legal aid to fix/acquire photo ID.
So much talk and so little action..
I accidently hit I agree, pjm, but I definitely don't. It's a tradition for Republican to try again they can to sway, block, and omit votes against them, and no, Democrats don't need illegal votes. Nice talking point, though.
If "Raymond Rutherford" could get a voter registration under that assumed name even though his legal documents are under another name, then what's to say he can't get another second voter registration under the assumed name "Henry Washington" and another third registration under the assumed name "Andre Green" and another fourth under the assumed name "Thomas Ford"?
This is a shining example of why voter ID laws are vital.
What this article is saying is this gentlemen has committed voter fraud all of these years and knew it. Plain and simple, he knew he was voting under a false identity! Isn't that what this is all about. Don't start giving me poor old black man couldn't get this or that, he now wants our sympathy for a crime, he new it was wrong admits it and thinks it's alright because he was too lazy to correct it.
How does anyone NOT have an ID?
if you dont have an I.D....get one plain and simple, or dont vote, or cash a check, or drive a car, or have proof of who you are at any doctors office. i fail to see how anyone can get by one month in this country without a valid I.D. This is not a Black thing..its everyone, and not everyone wants to vote anyway. these media idiots want to spin this and turn it into a racial issue..pure B.S.
dzygote,
No, shame on you for promoting an environment where some people are help to lower standars than other. Obtaining an ID can be done, and is not difficult. Bottom line though, the goal is to prevent people from voting who should not vote, yet your type continues bending the truth and telling people it is about race or some other deflection.
clearly most of you didnt read the article in full, or if you did, didnt comprehend what it was talking about.
MOST of the people who do not have ID's are elderly people - people, for the most part, who were born during a time when our nation was EXTREMELY hostile to black people...
the hurdles they had to jump over to get "proper documentation" cleared up was nearly impossible, for the EXACT PURPOSE of ensuring these folks could never get ahead in life.
it's absoulutely MIND NUMBING that most of you are too stupid to comprehend how atrocious our nation (and white christians) were to black people just 50 years ago...
im a white 33 year old, born in chicago, raised in a small michigan town, who legally changed her last name at the age of 18, because my father (who is not my biological father) could not afford to legally adopt me. the 2nd best option (and cheaper) option was to legally change my name. the court SAID they would process the paperwork so I could get a new birth certificate, but that never happened. since that happened, I have not be required to present my birth cert for anything...but if i were to have to do that, my birth cert has a different last name than my drivers license and my social security card. I have TRIED to get a new birth cert, it's not easy...especially since I do not live in chicago.
I can ONLY IMAGINE how much more challenging it would be to get proper documentation in order to get proper ID - when you dont even have a birth cert, and you were never born in a hospital...
PEOPLE - take just a simple moment and try to picture what YOU would do. how differently your life would be if every possible obstacle were intentionally put in your path? it sounds so easy on paper, but in reality, not so much.
This has little to do with id theft. Id theft was as big a problem several yrs ago as it is now. Why is the repulsive i mean republican party jumping on the bandwagon now. It has everything to do with a well coordinated strategy by the conniving conserves to strengthen their vote for the upcoming election.
In the Middle - it's not difficult if you have all the proper paperwork.
nearly impossible if you do not have the proper paperwork. I cant get a passport because my birth cert doesnt match my social security card or my drivers license.
the cost and effort it would take to get my birth cert corrected, is definitely do able...but since I dont NEED that birth cert for anything, I havent seen a point in correcting.
though, at this rate, republicans might decide women shouldnt vote anymore either...not without a birth cert, so maybe i'll be just as screwed as black people soon enough.
Jessica,
Your women not voting thing is stretching it just a bit, and that exageration is part of the problem with our political differences these days. If you really think that, I'm guessing your not too intelligent.
At any rate, I know exactly how difficult it can be, but I also know there are solutions (the reality is these cases are few and far between). I worked in public sector health care for several years, and a common task was obtaininig ID's for those with mental illnesses, coming out of state hospitals or coming off the streets. It can be done, and as far as I can tell, has not killed anyone yet.
Jessica,
What do you think the men and women who have died to give you the right to vote would think of how little people are willing to do to excercise that right? How petty is it to argue over people not willing to go through the process of getting the right paperwork must seem to those who have fallen protecting that right. My opinion is if you are not willing to deal with a little bit of paperwork then maybe you shouldn't vote. I mean other people only died to allow you that right and your giving up on them over paperwork. Wow, that is just amazing.
'Ole white Joe say he gonna put da black folk in chains!
Is the ACLU going to sue to prevent banks from requiring photo ID to open a bank account, or to access your funds? It is disenfranchising minorities and is racist for a bank to require a photo ID. It is disenfrancising minorities and is racist to require a photo ID to drive a car. It is disenfrancising minorities and is racist to require photo ID to fly in an airplane. It is disenfrancising minorities and is racist to require photo ID to cash a check. It is disenfrancising minorites and is racist to require a photo ID to order a beer. It is disenfrancising minorites and is racist to require photo ID when going to a doctor or hospital.
Let's see, you need a government issued id to drive, to get on an airplane, to buy tobacco, alcohol, pick up prescriptions, jury duty, go to high school, college, apply for any type of government benefits, open a bank account, even a library card for goodness sake. This is such b.s. I spent 20 years serving this country to make sure that all American citizens have the right to vote. I think I also have the right to make sure that ballot boxes are not being stuffed with dead voters, felons, foreigners, etc. I do not care who Americans vote for, or what color they are, or what sex they are, just make sure they are VALID!
Jessica, You're insulting. Just how stupid do you think the rest of us are?
Like the millions of women who get married or have their names legally changed every year, your birth certificate will never be changed. However, it doesn't matter at all if it is. Funny, all of these millions of women have different names on their drivers licenses and Social Security cards than they do on their birth certificates and yet they're able to get passports with no problem. If you changed your name, you have official papers that say you changed your name or you have papers that say you got married. That's all you need.
We're not as stupid as you so arrogantly think we are.
How ridiculous - you folks are either the most incredibly naive (read that as stupid) folks in the entire galaxy or just spouting your left wing radical failed mantra. Bottom line the ONLY people that have the right to vote in a Federal election are US Citizens. The excuse of no birth certificate holds no water - the moron currently holding the office of President of this Country also did not have a birth certificate until some obliging Democratic party flunky in Hawaii created one for him (at a price of course). So get your picture ID if you want to vote - don't want to vote then who gives a damn what you do.
Inconvenience my ass - the only folks that fight to prevent getting a picture id to vote are convicted felony's that lost their right to vote or illegal aliens oh and democratic party flunky's holding out for that free ride at the cost of those that actually do hold a job.
Obama bribed how many folks to get his "birth certificate"? So go get yours loser
Just my two cents worth as an Independent, somewhat left leaning voter(partisan politics are destroying America) I have to agree with having to show a legitimate ID to vote. In fact, if this would have been a national law back in 2000 and 2004, chances are, all of those deceased voters in Ohio(2000), would not have been able to vote for George Bush. And once again in Florida 4 years later, where the actual vote for Bush vs. Kerry, is still extremely questionable. As so many others have stated, I too, have to show my ID for all sorts of transactions throughout the year. I also fully understand, that the timing of this Republican backed tactic, is to remove as many older, rural, black and or white, poor Americans from voting for Obama or any Democrat period. Before the right wing attacks me and calls me a liberal loon, the last major election, I voted about 50% Demo, 45% Repub, and 5% independent, as I stated above, partisan politics is destroying this Great Nation.
My Uncle Ralph never had a birth certificate, the middle child of five. He never had trouble getting a driver's license, or for that matter drafted. Guess what he wasn't a minority. Now when he died and we found out he didn't have a birth certificate because SS wanted one for the death benefit. They gave us a list of six different items that could be used to prove birth day and place. I have stood behind people in Texas positively ancient people in Texas with the same kind of documentation. The nice clerk speaks to them in the language of their choice. All Texas state offices are bi-lingual. And then she processes their paperwork, gives them a number and tells them to take a seat and wait to be called. They then go back get the picture taken and the thumbprints encoded and leave with a photocopy of their new ID which will be mailed to their house within ten days just exactly like mine was. Guess what the DPS office isn't hard to find it has this big Texas flag flying in front of the building. For very small towns a roving DPS office schedule is online with day and time for your area. I mean does a town of 500 need a full time office?
Jessica...if you were oging on a trip ouitside of the country and decided you needed a passsport, I imagine you woul take the couple of hours to fill out the paperwork to get your birth cert corrected. no one, and I mean NO ONE, should be walking around with names on IDs being different. When I went to enlist int he military, my borth cert wasn't corerct..guess what, I got it corrected. The name on my SS card was spelled the same as my brith cert..I got IT corrected as well.
How have these elderly people who allegedly don't have a birth cert have ever gotten drivers licenses, medicaid or social security benefits. To get an SS card you have to show a birth cert or some other form ID. Directly from the SS Site...note that they indicate a birth cert is NOT a form of acceptable ID:
**********
We can accept only certain documents as proof of identity. An acceptable document must be current (not expired) and show your name, identifying information (date of birth or age) and preferably a recent photograph. A birth certificate is not a form of identification. As proof of identity, Social Security must see one of the following primary evidence documents:
I guess the author would expect me to believe that in 59 years, this poor soul has never cashed a check, gotten a credit card, purchased alcohol, cigarettes or flew on a plane? PLEASE!!! How gullible are these people?????????????????? If you cant figure out how do get an ID, then you don't DESERVE to vote!
It took 10 weeks and $100 to get my drivers license renewed in Florida. I have been living here since 1995. I married in 1971 in PA. Florida refused to accept my passport and birth certificate. They wanted legal proof of how I went from my maiden to my married name, so I had to send for my marriage license.
I am black and affluent, one of the lucky ones. I will never vote for a republican in this life.
Stop looking at excuses and do something... I'm sure that they must have computers down south... Get your neighbors, friends and family on-line and register to vote...
www.registertovote
Pick your state and your registration will be in the mail...
So far I've gotten six families in my neighborhood registered... I was surprised how many people just didn't care about voting...
you can blame that on 9-11 as the islamist extremist terrorists had FL drivers licenses....so why are you blaming Republicans 11 years later????
www.registertovote.org
It's pretty confusing to me how "civil rights" heroes like John Lewis can talk about the battles that were fought to win the right to vote...and then moan about the so called "burden" placed on a potential voter by simply requesting that he or she come up with a simple, valid ID card. It appears that many states are striving to help put an ID card into the hands of anyone who contacts them and requests one.
Is that really, really too much of a "burden" for any human being to bear ???
Fedup...
I don't think some folks will be happy until the 'voting rights' folks are able to pull homeless people out of abandoned building basements...register them in a paddy wagon en route to the voting booth...and show them a photogragh of the correct levers to pull.
You forgot to mention giving then ten bucks.
Well, Barry just lost 53,000 votes in Florida! Thank you RICK SCOTT!!!!!
Judicial Watch Prompts Florida to Remove 53,000 Dead Voters from Voting Rolls
Published in the August 2012 Edition of VERDICT
http://www.judicialwatch.org/
http://usahitman.com/drvifmn/
So this lazy bum has had approximately 40 years to fix his paperwork problem, but now suddenly the world is ending because he wont be able to vote in Nov? And don't give me this garbage about "how difficult it is"..."how many hoops he has to jump through"...he's HAD FORTY GOOD YEARS TO WORK ON IT. If he doesn't have it fixed by now, it's on his shoulders, not some tinfoil conspiracy plot by Republicans...
Eveylyn,
Really? Being an affluent Black doesn't make it any easier for you to keep your papers in order. It is standard to have ALL documents locked up in your possession including your MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE. That is asked for routinely. No one did you any wrong. Has nothing to do with political party. I was married, widowed, went in the military and remarried. Never had a problem because I kept my paperwork in order. When I remarried, got my Military ID updated with my Marriage Certificate, went to the local DMV and SS office with my Marriage Certificate & Military ID and got my Driver's License and Social Security cards updated with my current name. Later in military moves my sealed Birth Certificate was lost. Contacted my County Court House back home and got a certified copy to replace it. NOT difficult! I'll go you one better speakin of old timers. In going through my Dad's old documents, he had a Birth Certificate that was a replacement when he went in the military in WWII, and he was born in the 1920s to parents from the late 1800s. It can be done.
This whole article is simply intended to distract from the real issue; illegal immigrants not being allowed to vote. No illegal votes, less Democrats elected. Less Democrats elected, less money being spent on entitlements. Less entitlements, less purchased votes. Less purchased votes, the likely extinction of the Democratic party. Can't have that happen; otherwise, who'll tell me what to eat and how much, what to think, who's truly responsible? Gods forbid that I might actually be required to do for myself. It isn't difficult to get ID; if you can't do it before the election, then do it before the next. I'm tired of all the excuses.
sierratango
I find the race baiting and partisan moaning as vulgar and unfortunate as I do the fact a subsection of presumed US citizens are unable to receive correct and valid identification. The organizations who are bemoaning the ID requirement should focus less on press conferences and media soundbites and more on providing the citizens impacted with sound legal aid to fix/acquire photo ID.
So much talk and so little action..
I had to repost this......a perfectly logical solution which will, of course, be completely ignored by "voter's rights" activists.
Having to show your marriage license (or divorce papers, or court approved legal name change papers) as proof of a name change isn't something unique to Florida. It also has zero to do with whether anyone voted for a Republican (or a Democrat).
Jim, "should" and "do" are different, no? As the story explains, many people, especially the elderly poor (which in the South are predominantly an African-American group) do not have the documents one would have to provide to get that ID.
Surely in all this time someone somewhere figured out how to correct the situation? Did these folks never want to vote before? How do they have jobs or recieve government assistance without proper identification??
Anyone can get the documents necessary to get an ID. If they are incapable of understanding how to do that, how could they be a responsible voter? Having said that, I think that if we have an ID requirement, there should be a no brainer way to get a picture ID.
smh29, you ask, "Did these folks never want to vote before?" As the story explains, they have voted before. A photo ID was not required until now.
So they have voted before....as whom? How do we even know they actually voted? How were they correctly and legally identified previously in order to vote, but not able to be identifed now? Surely if there was enough information acceptable for these people to vote once, that same information can be used to get photo identification??
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that there has been virtually no proof of any real cases of "voter fraud" in the US (other than a small handfull spread out over the entire country during the last decade). If that is true, then why are all the new voter ID laws even necessary? I hate to use this as an example, but the Mayor Adam West character from "Family Guy" keeps coming to mind after passing a law that required all buried bodies to be encased in concrete, so they could not return as zombies. His quote was "You'll thank me when nothing happens".
How do they work? How do they drive? How do they receive social services without ID?
Lots of them don't drive or receive social services. If you're doing handyman work or similar day labor, you don't have to have a photo ID.
Why are u all up in someone else business ? How is that relevant to this topic ? Knowing that will not get them any id's.
No ID, no vote, simple as that. These "stories" which is what they are, are beyond pathetic. You need a photo ID to open a bank account, drive, get medicine at a pharmacy, get your utilities turned on, and everything else important in this life, including getting a library card. You must be able to prove who you are, and if you can't, simple, you can't vote. If you can't get a real ID your just lazy and are an excuse maker. My Mom had an ID till her death at age 80. If your that far out of the "real world" I don't want you voting anyway. Prove who you are or stay in some third world reality you live in. What a biased and demeaning article, published for political reasons only. Nice MSN, good garbage you got here.
rkb - "How is that relevant to this topic ?"
To highlight how fake these sob stories about U.S. citizens with no ID are.
Think for yourself, that's the democrats telling you there is little to no voter fraud. That's because they don't count illegal immigrants (ILLEGAL not legal) and dead people voting as fraud. They have used that system to get elected for a century or more now.
A water bill? Birth certificate? Nothing? How do they live?
When I wanted to get my passport I need a copy of my birth-certificate It cost me $90.00 That was 20 years ago, I still have a copy, my mom had died and who knows where my original copy went to. I have a Drivers license $16.00, Social Security Card $8.00 35 years ago to replace the original which was free. Water bill since I own a home, that with other documents can be use to obtain a State issued photo I.D. It can be done, why don't you want to do it, you don't want anybody to know who you are. Most of the time it is because you are or have done something wrong, or you just want privacy.
what's fake about not having a driver's lic, many people work w/out id's. How do u think illegals work w/out id's. Not everyone requires or demands photo id. A lot of the homeless may not have id's either.
Bill,
Now, you are insulting my intelligence.
Let's see, you need a government issued id to drive, to get on an airplane, to buy tobacco, alcohol, pick up prescriptions, jury duty, go to high school, college, apply for any type of government benefits, open a bank account, even a library card for goodness sake. This is such b.s. I spent 20 years serving this country to make sure that all American citizens have the right to vote. I think I also have the right to make sure that ballot boxes are not being stuffed with dead voters, felons, foreigners, etc. I do not care who Americans vote for, or what color they are, or what sex they are, just make sure they are VALID!
rkb5555
Read what you wrote. You just answered why having a valid photo ID is necessary.
Bill Dedman have you applied for a job since 2000? In that year the I-9 regulation went into effect and required employers to check if you were legal to work in the US. It requires 3 forms of ID including a photo ID. So any employer not checking your 3 forms of ID is in violation of the law if they hired you. BTW a survey in Texas found that percentage wise more white people don't have IDs than either Black or Hispanic people.
It's obvious that Bill Dedman is going to ignore anything you show him that contradicts the article.
Bill: Anyone that has never bothered to get an ID has made a deliberate decision to stay out of modern society--whether it is due to laziness or being anti-government doesn't matter. They are legally unable to bank, cash a check, drive a car, get on a plane, visit a gov't building, buy beer/cigarettes, rent equipment, get a job, obtain welfare/Social Security benefits, etc. The list of daily activities that require a photo ID goes on and on.
This article actually indicates that the man featured in the article may be engaged in voter registration fraud, by using a name that isn't his legal one to register and vote. I love how NBC ignored that. It wouldn't support the narrative, would it? Media bias is alive and well, but it thrives at NBC (and its affiliates). If I see any actual "journalism" from NBC, I think I'll die of shock. Until then, I'll keep calling you twits out for being leftist stooges for the DNC.
These laws seem unnecessary. From what I've read, this form of voter fraud is so uncommon it's laughable.
What's not laughable is how difficult it can be to get an I.D.
From getting the right certificates and whatnot, to getting down to the center; most places that you would get a state I.D. from are also only open during "normal business hours". What about the people who have to work during those hours?
And yet... from the article - “Just because we can’t present the individual to you, doesn’t mean there isn’t a pretty serious problem taking place,” Weinberg said.
That was an attorney trying to BLOCK voter ID laws. They can't find people affected by the law, but they still say people are affected. We know that in some districts they have more votes that registered voters. We know that dead people have cast votes. But, it is VERY difficult to catch the perpetrator without requiring any form of ID at the polls.
BTW, I have been to the poll and told I couldn't vote because I already voted. But, I hadn't voted. Some criminal STOLE my vote. I don't have a single issue in the world showing an ID. I need to it to drive, cash a check, and even buy cold medicine or spray paint. Why shouldn't I be required to present it to vote?
BTW, this wasn't an article, it was a blatantly one-sided editorial opinion piece.
Stop reading the Huffington post and MSNBC and you might learn something.
i agree with you on how difficult it is to get documentation from a goverment source. I lost my SS card and found out that the office is open 9-3 with a gooood hour lunch. Then they wanted to keep my drivers license while they worked to get a SS card. So how do I legally drive while you have my license? Not our problem... All said, I got my SS card a month later. Figuring that this battle for voter ID has raged for over a year, those really wanting to vote should do what they need to and quit whining!
DUH ... if no one has an ID how would we know if there is voter fraud ... get a brain !!!
Winkster - Hard to believe you waited 1 month for a replacement SS card. All one has to do is go on line and apply for a new one. That's what I did and the replacement arrived in the mail within 2 weeks. As you mentioned, people who want to vote should get the ID and stop their whining. And stop finding every excuse in the book so as not to. And to those people who scoff and say there's little or no voter fraud had better do some research. Voter fraud has been around for years. The Dem's motto - Vote for us today and vote often. That's why they're so against voter ID. Of course they do have the New Black Panthers and Acorn to "watch over" the voting places......just in case.;-)
hambone,
If a person is not competent enough to get an ID, they should not be casting a vote. They should stay at home with their crayolas and fruit coloring book, trying to remember that apples are not blue.
Well,
I'm currently in the process of getting my driver's license. The hours at the DMV are 8 - 5. Guess what my work schedule is?
Fortunately for me, I have a good job that allows for paid time off and I already have a passport, so no problem there. I'm just imagining the difficulty a person less fortunate than I might have.
@in the middle, you seem like an unpleasant person.
@Lane, you have a point. But I'm also aware that the occurrence of this type of fraud is somewhere well below 1%.
@Nana, I don't read Huffington post but do (obviously) read MSNBC. But so do you. I also visit several other news sites. Question: where do you think I should get my news?
hambone I stood in line right behind someone who tried to vote in the wrong city. They knew they didn't live in that city and had no right to vote in the municiple election. But gee they moved out of town three years before and were still receiving their mail at mom's house. It wasn't caught by the election worker but by the guy behind me in line. Not all voter fraud is in national elections. But State issued ID cards require both a physical address and a mailing address if different. This was a hotly contested local race. In this area if the national isn't an interesting primary everybody votes democratic because the GOP doesn't always run a full local slate.And local races often have more effect daily on your life than national ones do. Nana I used to read huffington post online but I quit because if you don't say exactly what everybody else wants to hear you will get 25 really nasty replies in your e-mail. I got tired of wading through hate mail including one idiot who said this third generation native born American should be deported because he didn't like my opinion.
I have never voted before, but I thought that was a prerequisite at the polls to begin with....seems pretty stupid hearing all of this now. Talking about people dying for the freedom to vote and making out all these victims. I believe people also died with the intentions of votes being fair and not washed out by thousands of fake votes...
Correct. We want validation for buying on credit, purchasing beer or getting into a night club, but to elect the most powerful man in the world (who has his finger on the button) we'll take you word for it. It does not hurt anyone to require identification.
With that kind of thoughtful logic, you must be a hateful, bigoted racist.
You need ID to go to the movies, buy a beer, pick up your prescriptions - so all of these ID-less people do none of these things? BS. Go get the ID and then you can vote. No ID - no vote. If that offends someone, deal with it.
From Texas, lived in New Mexico, North Dakota, Hawaii, California and every time I have voted, I have been asked for a photo ID (Drivers' Lic, Military ID, State Photo ID for those who don't drive, etc.) This is not new people! Only time I didn't need an ID was when I voted absentee while stationed ovrseas and that was because the State I was registered in sent it to me. Oh yeah, because I keep all my information up to date whenever there is a change. Not new.
People who don’t have a photo ID should not be able to vote. They should not receive any government subsidy’s either. If you do not have an ID then you will not be able to get a legal tax paying job.
And they should not be allowed to pay taxes.
I venture to say the majority of those with no ID are NOT paying taxes.
Nana-2180798, what on earth leads you to that conclusion?
right, bring back that poll tax and those literacy tests too, let's make sure only the RIGHT people get to vote
Thanks for admitting that a literacy test would exclude the LEFT people from voting for taxpayer-funded handouts for themselves.
Add to that people who are net contributors get to vote, and people who don't pay a dime can just wait for the outcome.
Arnold Clapsaddle said "what on earth leads you to that conclusion?" Assuming he meant payroll taxes. All people pay taxes when they purchase things.
If they dont have the proper info to get an ID, how can they possibly have the proper info to register W-4's and file with employment to have taxes withheld? And if they can produce that information - then why cant they get an ID? You have to have a social security number to have your taxes withheld - so if they are paying taxes, they have that. If they have a social security number, they can go and get a birth certificate. If they have those two things they can get an ID.
So 1 of 3 things is happening. 1) the people with no ID's are not working - therefore paying no taxes. 2) The people with no ID's are working & paying taxes and are just to lazy to go get an ID or 3) The people with no ID are working under the table - not paying taxes.
Also, if you are working a job that does not require an ID - its safe to say its not a very high paying job - so they are probably getting all the monies paid refunded to them come tax time - IE - NOT paying taxes.
A little bit of logic and common sense go a long way unless your being willfully ignorant.
Well according to my friends who do get government subsidies they need ID to get them. In fact the only reason my ex started to pay his back child support was so the state of Texas would give him a photo ID so he could get his welfare check. The state puts a hold on any license or ID issued by the state if you are in arrears and have not made a deal with the state to pay your child support through the states attorney generals office. maybe that is why some people don't have IDs to cheap to support their kids. Any employer who has not requested and checked 3 of six required forms of ID and hired you for any job in the US is in violation of Immigration law I-9.
Idiotic fear-mongering hyperbole.
Seriously?....".Rutherford (59) has tried to find the time and money to correct his birth certificate ..." how much time or money does he need? So...immigrants can find time (years!) and money ($$$) to become citizens, but this guy couldn't find the time or money in his entire life to get this corrected and get a photo id? Come on!~
smh29, you clearly have never tried to correct a birth certificate, or obtain documents in lieu of a valid birth certificate.
Both my mother and grandmother had enormous difficulty when the time came for them to apply for Social Security benefits. My mother finally managed to obtain an affidavit from the doctor who delivered her (!) who was, amazingly, still alive at nearly 100 years of age and remembered her (she came from a locally prominent family). I do not know how my grandmother finally resolved the issue.
Courthouse fires were common in years past, and in many states all birth records were maintained in the county courthouses.
Arnold Clapsaddle- what exactly makes it "clear" to you that I have never had to correct a document? Is it the fact that I am not blaming someone else because something is "difficult"? The people in the article aren't filing for SS, they are upset that they have to have proper id to vote...my question is...how have these folks survived this long if this were truly an issue? Why only now is paperwork an issue. I have needed an id since I was very young to get everything from medical care, school registration, jobs, actually just about everything. A better question is this: how were they properly identified when they voted previously? A secret handshake?
Arnold,
my mother was born with the help of a midwfe who screwed up her name too. And yes she had to jump through a few hoops to get it corrected when filing for SS. Of course the goverment had no problem collecting SS for 30 years. The problem was when she asked to get it back. After a few hoop jumps the checks started rolling in and not once did she whine like the people I hear whining now. Set on your duff and complain or do what is needed and shut up. it's not easy, but it can be done and everyone has had time to get it done if they wanted to. ID's YES!
smh29, okay, I'll presume you're young and haven't voted in decades past. You presented your voter registration card and had your name checked against the list of people who had voted. The card did not have a photo. You confirmed your residency with utility bills, bank statements, tax receipts, etc., or a drivers license, and your voter registration card was mailed to your home. It worked fine for a very long time.
My question is, why are we going out of our way to make it difficult or impossible for people to vote who have been voting without problem for decades?
Arnold Clapsaddle - Maybe many of those people were not legally entitled to vote all those years? And maybe the reason it's become an issue is because of Obama's Acorn and the New Black Panthers and the number of dead people, dead dogs, etc. who voted in 2008? I am all for voter ID. Not only that, I don't believe a driver's license is proof of U.S. citizenship. Proof of citizenship (birth cert, Natz. cert, U.S. passport) should be the only identification one should provide as proof. A birth certificate should be accompanied by another form of photo ID. I will now don my suit of armor for when you libs start hammering on me. Have a nice day. Romney/Rand in 2012!!!
Joan, why do you think those people weren't legally entitled to vote? Do you have any evidence, any evidence at all that would support that?
As for the issues you mentioned about 2008 - they're not even issues, except in the right-wing press. All the dead people voting? Didn't happen. ACORN and the New Black Panthers? Come on.
What's happening is that thousands upon thousands of people are having to jump through hoops in order to vote - or even being prevented from voting at all in many cases - in (supposed) reaction to a couple of dozen incidents over 20 years.
The "accidental" side effect of this is that it is mostly Democratic voters who are being shut out.
ok Arnold, care to explain how in the heck you come to the conclusion that it's just democratic voters being shut out? I think I've earned the right to expect a 'fair' election, no dead voters, no felons, no illegal aliens voting for whoever their candidate is. This law would take care of that. I recently moved from one state to another, the new state would not accept my original birth certificate (with my actual footprint), I had to go through my birth state to obtain a new certificate. Yes, I was upset, but actually glad to see that not just anyone who lives in Pennsylvania can vote without proof of citizenship.
Arnold my mother resolved the issue for her deceased brother to claim the death benefit rather easily. She got his baptismal certificate from the church and signed affidavits from an aunt and uncle still alive who remembered when he was born. How anyone could forget a 5'2" woman delivering a 14lb 15 oz baby I don't know? I think the reason he didn't have a birth certificate is the doctor went out and got drunk immediatly afterwards.
Ramon/Raymond says he can't get an ID to vote because his name isn't right on his birth certificate AND Social Security card? Hmm, seems fishy to me. Would Raymond then not cash a social security check made out to Ramon? I mean after all, that's not his name. Looks like he is just too lazy to get a photo ID and is making up excuses.
The right to vote is something too many people in this country take for granted as shown by the percentage that actually go to the polls. Instead of complaining about having to show a photo ID you would think people without one would be doing everything in their power to get one before the election. It can be done!Whenever I see an article on how hard it is to obtain one for some people and how unfair it is,I think of my son who oversaw a polling place for the first Iraq election in 2005. He witnessed people who came from villages miles away and waited in line for DAYS for the right to cast their vote. They faced great personal danger but took the risk for this right! The very groups that say the US voter ID law is unfair are the ones whose ancestors struggled and fought for the right to vote just a few decades ago. Sad that now no one wants to put any effort into making sure their voice is heard because it's "too hard".
So why are we deliberately making it harder?
The goal is not to make it harder but to keep it HONEST!
Arnold it's to do away with fraud. I have ALWAYS had to show a photo ID to vote. Just because you haven't doesn't make it right.
Exactly TxTess! Does that answer your question Arnold? Times have changed & there's more fraud in this world than ever before...
If the goal was fairness, it would be different. The goal is to place reduce the number of votes from people likely to vote for Democrats. That's why it's not only about photo IDs, but also about reducing the number of voting machines in predominantly black neighborhoods, shortening poll hours in heavily Democratic areas, and other transparently partisan dirty tricks.
Arnold,
How does it feel being that full of it? The goal is not about either of the things you mention. It is about integrity of the system.
Fair is not a word that should be used in this context, as our definitions of the word are very different. I, for example, don't think it is "fair" that I work my butt off and do the right things, like waiting in line for an ID, while others don't and still get the same rights as me. You, however, probably feel that fair is only fair when that lazy person gets the same rights regardless of their unwillingness to go out and get their stinking ID. My god man, this is not a big thing to ask of someone.
Clapsaddle you are on something. Conspiracy theory run wild. I've lived all over in states Pro-Dem and Pro-Rep. Each district had set polling places and it matters not if statistically one group or the other seems to be predominant there. They will be open. Again, lived in 4 states scattered all over and each one required ID. Nothing new.
He has had 59 years to correct it. My birth certificate had a error because it had my middle name wrong. My parents fixed it when I started little league baseball when I was 8. I called my mother just now to ask her how hard it was to do and she said it was about 25 dollars and a couple of trips to the health dept. But that was 30 years ago. There is no excuse in not getting a ID. I will bet anyone 1000 dollars that if a government ID was required to get welfare or any monetary benefit from the government people would have their ID's in hand quickly.
TxTess, I'm not sure you or many others who have posted here understand the difficulty facing people who have errors or are missing records to get photo ID. I work with poor and indigent peoples in my city everyday who are struggling to find housing and employment to feed theirr children, and one of the major obstacles they face is getting or replacing ID. This is deliberate voter disenfranchisment. Shame on my country.
So I assume that they do not have to have any form of ID to secure housing or cash their welfare checks?
Shame on my country for running such a poorly managed system.
They do not need photo ID initially. Sorry to be unclear about that. I hope you are never in a position to have to use emergency benefits, or you lose all your documents in a fire, or you lose your job, benefits, and health insurance and then become sick. The people I work with come from a wide range of backgrounds and often carrying aweful and recent tragedy. Don't make assumptions about people just because they recieve emergency assistance.
Many of these new laws are extremely restrictive on what ID will be accepted for voting. It's not simply a photo ID, it must be a photo ID issued by specific state agencies. Some states won't accept university or school IDs, for example, and others are similarly restrictive.
Yes, I do understand how difficult it can be to obtain proper paperwork to get an ID. My great-grandfather was Native American. His birth record was in the missionary's bible. When he wanted to get a social security card later in life he worked with a rep from that agency and she helped him get what he needed. Did he feel "disenfranchised"? No, he knew that in order to work and get a drivers license he had to obtain the necessary documents. He didn't whine about how difficult it was he just did what was needed. And this was WAY before computers! And don't assume that you are the only one who helps the unfortunate. I have worked for a non-profit for over 20 yrs and have taken many employees and clients to register to vote and have helped fill out paperwork for any social services that they may need as well as supplying funds for emergency situations. You say "shame on our country" for having Voter ID, I say shame on my country for making people so dependent that they are not motivated to help themselves anymore!
The shame is in purposefully trying to keep certian voters from the polls. This is not about "whining" or pulling oneself up from ones bootstraps.
I never implied I was the only one who helped the unfortunate, I was only trying to illustrate the difficulties facing people. I'm not sure where you got from my comments that people are not trying to help themselves. I just dont see the point in making it more difficult for less advantaged people to vote when the ostensible reason for voter ID laws is "voter fraud", which there is little to no evidence to support. This is so obviously a way to discourage certian voters that I'm astounded that people don't see it.
However, I shouldn't be surprised. It is the American way to turn a conversation about disadvantaged people into a conversation about how people should "stop whining" and just take care of themselves and do what they have to. I'm so sick of the culture that says everyman for himself and anyone who is without must be lazy or have personal faults.
This is how right wing ideologoues have pulled the wool over so many eyes as they steal the entire country right under our noses. Shame.
I'm curious how you know whether or not your great grandfather felt disenfranchised or whether he complained (sorry, I mean "whined") about he was treated in his life in general in a country that slaughtered so many of his people and left the ones who were alive in dire poverty in third world conditions. I assume you had many heart to hearts with him about this?
TxTess you are absolutely correct.
@dzygote I am not right wing and totally agree with voter ID laws. I personally don't understand people who don't think voting should not be treated with the utmost accuracy and checks and balances to make sure it is fair.
Fair for who? To Txtess, if you are worried about people being dependant, why are you helping them register to vote and fill out social services forms?
dzygote
I couldn't agree with you more! It is so easy for some to judge others. And even easier for smooth talking politicians to convince ppl there's something that needs fixing even though it's not broke.
I think it is blatantly obvious why these laws are being pushed and being pushed by republicans. I am not sure why ppl are so quick to jump on the voter fraud bandwagon.
There will be proof disenfranchised voters AFTER the election!
Actually, I did have many conversations with him about his life. He lived to be 104 and I already had children. As a teenager I was fascinated by this side of my family. He was very philosophical about life and the injustices perpetrated on Native Americans. He would tell us that man had always commited atrocities against his fellow man and that it was no excuse to be bitter. If we wanted a better life and wanted things we didn't think were fair to change,we should do something about it. He sought an education and worked hard to provide for his family. One of his daughters recorded his stories and had a family book created from his conversations. The book is 280 pages long. So I can say I do know how he felt. And by the way, he NEVER missed voting in an election. In his last one he rode the bus to the polling site because he wanted to do it in person as he always had. And just so you know,I am a registered democrat!
SouthernAmericanMom is proving the point of this article. Did you not feel even vaguely racist when you assumed that blacks receive welfare checks?
It's wonderful that you know so much about your great grandfather. I'm being sincere about that. I understand his attitude about not being bitter, I just think it is important to be aware when there are attempts to disenfranchise voters like this one. Obviously, people need to ge their ID straight in anticipation and in response to what is going on, because the purpose of these laws are to keep democrats from voting in the next presidential election.
I think the situation is sad and I am exhusted from seeing people crushed day after day. These laws are designed to get rid of democratic party votes. Beware folks. I've said all I can say about it.
dzygote,
I hope you have said all you will say about it, because you are wrong. The goal is to add some integrity to the system. That's it.
Your party solicits votes from people who are often less motivated and less capable, resulting in a many of them not being able to meet these requirements. Your party should spend more time telling them to be successful, and less time encouraging failure, and more of them would have their ID's.
This problem of no ID's is just another sign that Democratic policies have failed a large portion of our country. Republicans say you need to go do this for yourself. Democrats say that since you won't, we'll just bend the rules to accommodate you.
Tess, If you hadn't that last sentence in I might have believed you.
This idea is to "get around" the "POLL TAX" that african americans had to pay in order to vote and to "get around" having to read a section of the US Constitution, and then interpret it to the satisfaction of the "white" voter registration person who was usually a Ku Klux Klansman or Mason. The US Supreme Court cannot agree on how the US Constitution is to be interpreted, so how is an african american supposed to interpret the US Constittution? The Republicans are seeking to "disenfranchised" black voters every way they can.
So more to the point that the NAACP should've seen this coming. The South has been at this sort of thing since Blacks got the right to vote. Someone has not been paying attention...
Poll Tax...please
dzygote, I am not opposed to people needing social services. My job is to help guide disadvantaged women through the system with the goal of someday being self sufficient. Helping secure grants to complete their education, find subsidized child care so they can work, get on WIC so they can have healthy children, find affordable housing. Many of these women have never voted so we make sure they are registered. I never ask "are you going to be liberal or conservative". Texas has had more than it's share of voting scandals over the years so I know fraud goes on and I would like everyones vote to count for something and not have the pool tainted. Just my opinion.
Why did these PHOTO ID states wait until OBAMA won to enact these laws? I haven't any problems with the new laws. My state haven't any new laws to suppress the vote. To those people who want to vote go get a state issud ID card.
What's the big deal about a photo on an official document. Every Latin Ameica counrty puts both photo and finger or thumb print on the individual voter ID card. Been done for years and nobody has the hysterics that the US democratic party members, have in the US. Go digging for a sob story about someone who can't find his/her birth certificate. Whose fault is that? The individual. Get real.
Exactly!
How is it the individual's fault if they have no birth certificate? In some states it's a pretty simple, inexpensive, straightforward process to have a certificate created or replaced. In other states - especially Southern states - it's expensive, time-consuming and complicated. In some cases it's actually impossible, i.e. the state will simply not issue the certificate.
How right you are, Dave. Each infant should be responsible for checking that their birth certificate is correct before going about the business of being an infant. They should also demand one of mother should they be born at home or the hospital refuses her for being a woman of color.
More infants need to take personal responsibilty for their own paperwork in this country. Then we wouldn't have these problems! USA!
So, let me get this straight. If I drive across the border from Canada, where I have was born and lived my entire life. Go rent a house, sign up for electricity and get a bill. I can now vote because I can show them my electric bill? How cool is that, I didn't know it so easy. In Canada, we must prove that we are legal residents to vote!!
dizzygoat - A) Infants can't vote, only adults can.
B) "They should also demand one of mother should they be born at home or the hospital refuses her for being a woman of color" - WTF? Hillarious.
Thanks for proving that democrat desperation is reaching new lows.
pjam - Please Google "sarcasm."
Actually, in reviewing requirements in four Southern states to receive a replacement birth certificate, Arkansas and Alabama only required a fee ($10-15) and a form with basic info (no id necessary). Mississippi and Tennessee required some sort of id and a fee of about the same amount. In all four states you could either mail in the application or go the Vital Records office. I didn't have time to look up the other nine Southern states. So don't say that it's "expensive & complicated" to get a birth certificate in the entire South; some states obviously require ID and some don't.
Don't worry pjam, once you look up sarcasm (thank you capecodmom), don't feel badly that
1) Not everyone can read on the same level (and by reading I mean comprehension by way of context clues among other skills) and
2) its never too late to further your education and expand your horizons.
Try traveling outside of your zip code, for instance. Read a book without illustrations, or perhaps just talk with a person who looks a little different than you.
I have all the faith in the world that you can do it!
I am amazed that even Williams carries a NAACP card that states on the back “To secure a free ballot for every qualified American citizen.” The word qualified should be an indication of proper documentation ie; birth certificates, state issued drivers license.... once again our founding fathers knew the importance of having educated voters direct this countrys well being. Seems Williams should understand why the word qualified is used in conjunction with American citizen.
This is just another example of the hypocrisy of " I pledge allegiance to the United states of American... with liberty and justice for all..." (except if your skin is darker or if you are hispanic ). Growing up in the north I was "floored" to learn that there were public schools for "white children only" and buses that were for "white people only". I never imagined that waiting rooms were divided by the color of your skin or that drinking fountains and bathrooms were divided by color. The legacy of slavery will still be with this country 200 years from now if the country lasts that long which it probably will not.
John, are there still public schools for "white children only"? Buses? No? I am "floored" that although a majority of the country are trying to heal and evolve...people like you feel the need to keep picking at a wound that needs to heal. Most of us were "floored" when we read about these things in history or heard about one of our family members dying in riots or hate crimes so that we could end segregation. Every country has it's dirty history, most also had slaves...yet most have found a way to move on. The sooner you start seeing the progress the sooner everyone else can too. After all...did you not realize we now have a black president? Seems like enough people were able to live in the present and think about the future of this country by voting him into office....maybe you would like to join us instead of living in the past?
The legacy of slavery will only continue because we refuse to move on and instead wish to wallow in the past. Food for thought John - if "whites" are the majority in the US as everyone claims, then do you think they are all rich? They aren't. There is a huge percentage of poor "whites". Maybe as you learn more about history you can next study the history of Appalachia. Tons of poor white folk living in the hills with no medical, in shanties, etc. Coal mining long gone, no livelihood. They would likely have the same photo ID issues getting their papers in order.
If all the people behind this bill are worried about is voter fraud, do like they do in other countries. No early voting, you go to the polls on election day, and you get your finger inked when you vote. That's it. It doesn't wash off, it has to wear off, so no one can vote more than once. If someone votes using your name, they can only do it once, and you get a provisional ballot to vote on. Yes, I think everyone should have a form of ID, but I also know, living in the south, there are lots of groups that can't come up with the documents required to get a government issued ID. I have an ID, but I also used to just show my voter card at the polls, it was easier to get out of my wallet than my ID.
The funny thing is how the libs will spin the fact that blacks wont come out by the millions to support obama this time as they did the first time. Now blacks know what a failure he is, how he's done nothing for them or for anyone, and they just wont care to vote as they never had in the past. Voting will be down by the +-7million votes that it always has been before 2008.
But again, libs will pretend it is due to IDs.
WAY too much early voting-Go to the polls,unless you can't.The old,infirm,or away fighting for us.
I predict that if Pres Obama is not re-elected the Dems will not only claim it was the issue of photo IDs but they will also say it was pure racism. Then, we argue another four years with the fact that Pres Obama wasn't re-elected because he is black versus those people that voted him out because of his record (or lack thereof) and the great divide will live on.
Reps and dems,Whos cares?It is the 21st century.Get your lazy granson who you are 'raising' to get off his ass and take you to get ID.Bonus: you have 'til next election.
Really? All this story is about, is the poor me attitude. Maybe if people stopped being victims long enough to find a solution to their problems, we wouldn't have discussions like this. How horrible, you have to prove you are a citizen to vote, oh no. I live in a state where you have to have a state certified copy of your birth certificate to obtain or renew your drivers license. I had my license for over 20 years, but had to provide a birth certificate. I understand why it needs to be done. This story is just bad swayed journalism, written to place the victim stance on a race and class of people. How can you ever end oppression if the media creates it?
How can you go through life with no legal identification? How do you get jobs? How do you get educated or receive social services? This is another BS argument made by Oblunder and his Liberal/Socialist buddies.
Who is this Oblunder and where is his opinion mentioned in this article? I guess it is impossible to obtain work without legal ID... Who picks your produce?
Nana-2180798, many of these people are not educated and don't receive any social services. Lots of them are elderly, and education in the rural South - especially for blacks - was poor to nonexistent in many, many places before the civil rights movement in the 1960s.
Actually Bad...if, as you say, the people "picking our produce" don't have IDs, which I am thinking you mean the illegals, the person that HIRED them shoud also be in trouble. In this country it is illegal to employ an illegal immigrant. Does that rule get broken, often, which is a part of the ongoing problem.
Clapsaddle, I recommend that you read Condolezza Rice's book "Extraordinary, Ordinary People" While some lived in the sticks, true, and didn' thave much access to education - despite segregation Blacks created their own communities, educated, had universities, etc. Great stories about her parents.
Voter ID laws will take a hugh number of Democrat off the voting rolls: the grave yard vote, the felon vote, the voters that are registerd in another state/country, and pets of Democrat voters. Also registered Dem voters Spiderman, Charlie Brown and Bart Simpson will also not be able to vote.
Just another racist action by ultra conservatives to keep non whites from voting.
Bringing the country closer to class and
racialupheaval and possible riots and chaos.To the commenter who made the racist comment about someone quickly getting ID if food stamps were at stake-- remember there are more white people on government aid then non white. The news media just rarely publicizes this. (Like Americas drug problem)
Ooohhh, okay.......and purple monkeys just flew out of your butt. Where did you get your info, out of the box of idiot flakes you had for breakfast? Mr Rutherford's parents are more than likely to blame for the name and SSN screw up, but hey..........he's had a hell of a long time since he was born to fix this issue, and so because ONE guy makes this story as the focus, I guess all southern blacks are in the same predicament? - NOT!! Who are your trying to kid? As a white voter, I'd just like to say that if no voter ID is needed, then I'm going to do exactly the same thing as alot of black voters without ID have done - I'm going to vote at every available voting station within my area under 100's of different names (dead, incarcerated, former felon, or even non-existent) so that I can sway the vote in my local area. How's that for justice and equality?
True, but only a half-truth. Care to talk about percentages of whites on government assistance as compared to percentage of minorities receiving aid? Not the total number, but the percentages of each group on their own.
Percentages are too complex for democrats.
The numbers come from the USDA.
2012 Food stamp recipients: 36 percent were white (non-Hispanic), 22 percent were African American (non-Hispanic) and 10 percent were Hispanic. 18% didn't report race in 2012, so we also rely on the 2010 Census numbers: 49 percent were white (non-Hispanic); 26 percent were black or African American; and 20 percent were Hispanic (of any race).
Let's put this into terms that are easily understood, rather than using propaganda.
Let's say the total number of people receiving benefits is 1100. Now let's say group "A" (the minority) is made up of 100 people, of which 20 receive benefits. Group "B" (the majority) is made up of 1000 people, of which 40 receive benefits. Now let's look at those numbers and put them in perspective: Of group "A"; 20% are receiving benefits. Of group "B"; 4% is receiving benefits.
Apply that same formula to the recipients of food stamps. The statement that "more whites are on food stamps" while on the surface is correct, is at the same time purposely used to be misleading and a flawed argument.
I love your screen name, arguesforsport.
I don't think Census data falls under "propaganda," but nevertheless...The data wasn't reporting the percentage of white people who get food stamps. It reports the percentage of people getting food stamps who are white.
Since the Census includes all the data on each statistic, I'll use those numbers and apply your formula. Census data reports that 78.2% of Americans are White, 12% African American and 11% Hispanic. That would mean, out of 1000 people, 782 are white, 120 are black and 110 are Hispanic. USDA Data recently (Nov. 2011) showed that 15% of the country is on food stamps. If the country is made up of our fictitious 1000 people, 150 of them are on SNAP. If white people make up 78.2% of that 1000 (782 people) and 49% of the 150 are white, that's 73 people (actually 73.5%, but...), or 9% of the white population. 12% of the 150 are black, or 14 (.4) people, which is 11.6% of the black population. Slightly more, but really a lot closer than the general assumptions being made on this board.
That was way too much math.
Those numbers would change again if you used the percentages of each group that you used in your previous post.
You're getting closer to the total truth. I don't really care to break it down further to show the even greater difference (it would be 36%, not 49% of the 150. The percentage of whites getting stamps, not the percentage of the total population and 22% of blacks, not 12%) at this time because I made my point. The statement "there are more whites on food stamps" is a statement made to mislead for purposes of pushing an agenda.
That's like them saying (And they do) that you can't execute black murderers because your not executing as many whites. Even though there aren't as many.
"Rutherford has tried to find the time and money to correct his birth certificate..." If he's technically Ramon Croskey, can't he register and vote under that name? And then "take the time" to get the error corrected. Something's going to hit the fan when he tries to collect Social Security!
We should and need to show an ID to vote, we also should ask and tell people that you need to be a citizen to vote , here is why, have you ever heard of being a victim of Motor Voter at the DMV. My wife is from the Philippines she came here in 1991 and became a Permanent resident green card holder in 2000, in 2003 she went to the DMV to get a State ID, she gave proof of who she was by showing her green card and military depandant ID, she was then asked would she like to register to vote, even after she showed her green card which means she is not a citizen, SHE WAS STILL ASKED!!!!, she thought wow I can vote, this government employee is asking me even after I showed my green card, she said OK. She got in the mail a few weeks later her voters card and then voted in 2004 for the President, the DMV has to ask you, citizen or not would you like to register to vote, even when they know you are not a citizen, they have to ask, it's the law called the Motor Voter act of 1993, and they cannot tell you that you have to be a citizen, people say that is racist. These Immigrants get confused, here is a DMV employee asking me to register when they know I'm not a citizen, it must be OK, in 2007 my wife applied for her citizenship and passed all her tests and went in for her interview, she was asked have you ever voted and she said yes, she also told them she put that in her application, this is when we found out that she did something wrong, voting as a non-citizen, she told the Immigration officer how this happened at the DMV, well they did not care!! her citizenship was rejected and she was put in removal proceedings, or another word is DEPORTATION, they want to deport her back to the Philippines for making this one time mistake 8 years ago, her final hearing is this December to see if she gets deported, THIS IS BULL, we have been going thru this for 5 years now, we have a normal life, 3 kids, jobs, house, cars, savings, 401k, medical issues, all at risk because of the Moter Voter act of 1993. Immigration rather do this to her for voting, OH MY GOD SHE IS BAD, instead of looking for Illegals, gang bangers, drug dealers, OH LET'S GET THE PERSON WHO VOTED ONE TIME AND DID NOT KNOW SHE DID SOMETHING WRONG
Are you really telling us that YOU did not know she needed to be a citizen to vote? That's basic Civics 101.
I did not think nothing of it, because non citizens can vote in some elections, she was asked by a government employee after she showed her Green card, they should have not asked her, it's entrapment, Immigrants will listen and follow what is asked of them by government employee's, ie the Immigration office, Social security, Dmv and so on. More than 40 states or territories, including colonies before the Declaration of Independence, have at some time allowed non-citizens who satisfied residential requirements to vote in some or all elections. This in part reflected the strong continuing immigration to the US. Some cities (Chicago), towns or villages (in Maryland) today allow non-citizen residents to vote in school or local elections. Again I did not really think about it when she voted for Bush in 2004, but because of her mistake she shouid not be deported for it, like she is some big time criminal, or treat her like she knew what she was doing, it was a mistake, it happened one time 8 years ago, having her citizenship denied should be punishment enough.
To iamfree, By what you said above you sound just like the Immigration officers, rude, mean, make someone feel small and dumb, she made a mistake because of the system of Motor Voter, this is a big problem, just go on line and read about it, attorneys have in there web sites articles about it because of how much of a problem this has become. Read this link
My link did post above on the motor voter problem, see an attorney web site the law offices of Richard Hanus, and read about the motor voter problem.
The correct thing to do, when you KNEW she wasn't eligible to vote, should have been to call and ask. AS far as I know every voting board in the state(s) has an e-mail address and phone number to contact.
I do agree, however, the denying her citizenship was harsh especially after she told them the truth. A warning would have been in my mind.
Addendum: people in the DMVs work on automatic and say exactly what their little mental checksheet tells them to say regardless of whom they are talking to. When I changed my state residency and had to go through the turture oif chaning my vehicle registration and license, I walked into the DMV with all the paperwork in hand. I handed it to the "lady", my birth cert and SS card paperclipped together on top of the stack (the word "Certificate of Birth" was clearly visible); she looked at me and asked to see my birth cert.....I just pointed at the stack of papers she had in her hand.
She then typed my name into the system incorrectly, twice, and was peeved when I corrected her spelling. My name is spelled Lynn...she kept spelling it Lynne.
To get SS benefits, you must have a birth certificate; along with most city, county, state and federal interactions.
If you're too dumb to obtain an ID you're too dumb to vote.
You don't have to be smart to vote, Republicans do it all the time...
with an ID in their pocket =D
Doug - "You don't have to be smart to vote, Republicans do it all the time.."
Thanks for the proof that smart people are not excluded.
How smart do you have to be to get a photo ID? Dems can't even get past a basic requirement to buy a beer or pack of cigarettes.
Dem ol ID's ams racist