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Subscribe to RSSThe Texas Republican Party vows to defend the state's new Voter ID law, which requires a government ID to vote and makes it harder to get government IDs. The state has investigated 100 cases of election fraud in the past decade, and claims 50 convictions. Only one of those cases was for voter impersonation. Produced by Lizzie Chen and Ana Victoria Lastra/News21.
From a continuing series of articles, Who Can Vote?, a News21 investigation of voting rights in America. Read the previous article, Will new photo ID laws keep down the black vote in the South?
By Lindsey Ruta and Annelise Russell
News21
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Discuss this series of stories on the Facebook page for Open Channel, the NBC News investigative blog. |
Every month for the next two decades, 50,000 Latinos in the U.S. will turn 18 years old. With that many new eligible voters and dramatic population growth expected, Latinos could dominate voting in the Southwest, particularly Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, a project of the Pew Research Center.
Every year, 600,000 more Latinos become eligible voters, making them a potentially potent voting force. However, Latinos have a historically low turnout at the polls: Only around 30 percent of eligible Latinos vote, according to the non-profit Pew Hispanic Center in Washington, D.C. Advocacy groups see the national push toward more stringent voter identification laws as a way to suppress an already apathetic Latino vote.
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Who can vote? A national News21 investigation of voting rights in America. |
Of the nation’s 21.3 million eligible Latino voters, only 6.6 million voted in the 2010 elections, according to the Pew Hispanic Center. White and black voters had higher turnout — 48.6 percent and 44 percent, respectively.
“We haven’t been able to engage the community to really participate in the democratic process,” said Carlos Duarte of the Phoenix non-partisan voter education organization, Mi Familia Vota Education Fund. “To be focusing our energy on trying to generate another obstacle for the people to participate, I think is completely misguided.”
Duarte, Texas director of Mi Familia Vota, which also has branches in Arizona, Colorado and Nevada, said legislators should instead encourage Latinos to vote.
Despite the low turnout of recent elections, the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials (NALEO) predicts record voting by Latinos in November - more than 12.2 million voters. That would be a 26 percent increase in turnout from the 2008 election.
Latino voters discuss the new requirements for voter ID. Advocacy groups see the national push toward more stringent voter identification laws as a way to suppress an already apathetic Latino vote. Produced by Lizzie Chen and Ana Victoria Lastra/News21.
Evan Bacalao is senior director of civic engagement for the Los Angeles group NALEO, the leadership organization representing more than 6,000 elected and appointed Latino officials. He said the group’s projections are typically conservative. NALEO uses the Census and Latino voter turnout in previous elections to forecast turnout for November.
NALEO still is concerned about confusion over new ID legislation, Bacalao said. The organization is focusing on voter education so that Latinos are not discouraged from voting because they are misinformed about what documents they need, he said.
Of the eight states with the largest Latino populations, four — Texas, Florida, Arizona and Colorado ¬– have some form of voter ID law, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. The Texas photo ID law is awaiting a U.S. District Court decision.
Florida voters must show a photo ID that includes their signature, a student ID card for example. Arizona voters may show a photo ID or two non-photo forms of identification. Colorado voters must show ID, but that could include a bank statement, utility bill, paycheck or some similar form.
In the other four states with large Latino populations, voters in New York, Illinois and New Jersey are not required to show ID, but legislatures in each state have ID bills pending. California has no ID requirement and none is before the legislature.
With the exception of Rhode Island, voter ID legislation has passed by a party-line vote — Republicans for, Democrats against, said Richard Hasen, a professor of law and political science at the University of California, Irvine School of Law.
Supporters say photo ID laws will reduce voter fraud, but Texas Democratic Rep. Trey Martinez Fisher calls the legislation “a solution in search of a problem.”
Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott cited 50 voter fraud convictions since 2002 as justification for the strict photo ID law that passed in March 2011. Texas has more than 13 million registered voters. The majority of voter fraud cases in Texas involved mail-in ballots, according to state records reviewed by News21. Only one case resulted in a guilty plea to in-person voter impersonation, the type of alleged fraud a photo ID is supposed to prevent.
Other Southwestern states report little to no voter fraud.
New Mexico, which doesn’t require photo ID, has never convicted a voter of fraud, said Lyn Payne, records custodian for the state attorney general’s office.
Arizona, which has a strict, non-photo ID requirement to vote , has had seven voter fraud convictions since 2000 and none for voter impersonation at the polls, according to state records reviewed by News21.
Colorado, which has a less strict, non-photo voter ID requirement, has had 21 convictions for voter fraud since 2000. Three were for voter impersonation, according to state records reviewed by News21. It is not clear whether the voter impersonation was by mail or in person.
Despite increasing legislative action on photo ID bills nationally, the majority of Southwestern states do not have such laws.
News21 is a program of the Carnegie Corporation of New York and the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation that is helping to change the way journalism is taught in the U.S. and train a new generation of journalists capable of reshaping the news industry. It is headquartered at the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. Since 2006, nearly 500 top journalism students in the U.S. have participated in the landmark national initiative.
Photo ID laws have been proposed in the Colorado Legislature in each of the last eight years. The New Mexico Legislature has considered photo ID laws in each of the last four years.
Latinos make up 13 percent of eligible Colorado voters. In April, Democratic legislators defeated in committee a bill that would have let Colorado voters decide on a photo ID law by putting a referendum on the November ballot. The Denver Post reported that the bill’s sponsor, Republican state Sen. Shawn Mitchell, has said he may ask citizens to petition to put ID legislation on a future ballot.
New Mexico legislators struck down three photo ID proposals this year alone. The state has the highest concentration of Latino residents in the country and 38 percent of eligible voters are Latino, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.
A significant turnout by Latinos in Colorado and New Mexico could have an impact on the electoral vote count in November. President Barack Obama won Colorado in 2008 — after the state voted Republican in eight of the last nine presidential elections. New Mexico has typically leaned Democratic in recent years.
Latino voters accounted for 31.6 percent of the turnout in New Mexico for the 2010 elections. In Colorado, 7.9 percent of the 2010 vote was Latino.
Arizona requires voters to show proof of citizenship when registering by using a state form. A federal court struck down the portion of Arizona law that required citizenship proof when registering with a federal form. The Arizona secretary of state’s office website directs voters to prove citizenship, but does not inform them that they can register by using federal forms.
Arizona Solicitor General David Cole said the state plans to appeal the case to the U.S. Supreme Court.
Tammy Patrick, a federal compliance officer at the Maricopa County Recorder’s office, said if a voter tries to register without proof of citizenship, an election officer is not obligated to inform them of the federal form option. However, if a voter asks specifically for that form, the officer is required to provide it.
Civil rights groups cite the handful of fraud convictions as evidence that ID laws are unnecessary and could disenfranchise eligible voters.
“These measures are usually reported to be justified by fraud but in fact voter fraud — it has been demonstrated time and time again — is frankly minuscule in proportion to the number of folks that vote,” said Thomas Saenz, president and general counsel of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund.
MALDEF, a national Latino civil rights organization with headquarters in Los Angeles, has strongly opposed ID laws and has filed legal challenges to voting rights laws in Arizona, Colorado, California, and New Mexico — most recently against the Texas photo ID law, which, in July, was argued before a three-judge U.S. District Court panel in Washington, D.C.
The Texas Voter ID bill was signed into law in May 2011, requiring every voter to present a government-issued photo ID at polling places. Many in the Latino community and Democratic Party say the law will disenfranchise voters at a time when the number of Hispanic voters is growing. Produced by Lizzie Chen and Ana Victoria Lastra/News21.
Voter fraud pales in comparison to the number of voters who would be disenfranchised by ID laws, Saenz said. Estimates of the number of voters who lack ID under the new Texas law has ranged from the state’s 167,724 to the U.S. Department of Justice’s 1.5 million.
Despite opponents’ claims that voter fraud is rare, supporters of ID laws maintain that it threatens fair elections.
“It’s something that we hold very dear as a fundamental right in our country and in our state — the sanctity of our elections, that we have full and open, honest access elections to protect that right,” said Chris Elam, communications director and deputy executive director for the Texas Republican Party. “And we as Republicans feel that it needs to be protected and to make sure that we can do so.”
The push for ID laws comes at a time of dramatic growth in the Latino population.
There are about 50.5 million Latino U.S. citizens — native-born and naturalized — and the Census projects that number will more than double to 132.8 million by July 2050.
Latino political muscle first drew attention in the 2008 presidential election when 9.7 million Latinos voted — 2 million more voters than in 2004, according to the Census. And their potential is even greater.
Voting rights activists are focused on Texas, where Latinos accounted for 63.1 percent of all population growth between 2000 and 2009, according to the Center for American Progress, a Washington, D.C., non-partisan progressive think tank.
One in five registered Texas voters is Latino, according to the 2010 Census. The Center for American Progress estimates that nearly 2.15 million eligible Texas Latinos are not registered to vote. An additional 880,000 Texas legal residents are eligible to naturalize, and therefore vote, according to Department of Homeland Security estimates.
That exceeds the 950,695 votes by which Sen. John McCain beat Barack Obama in Texas in the 2008 presidential elections. Despite population growth and increased participation in 2008, Latinos did not make themselves a force at the polls.
Antonio Gonzalez, president of the Southwest Voter Registration Education Project, a non-partisan Latino voter participation organization in San Antonio, said the Southwest is not a voting culture. There are fewer independent organizations — unions, for example — to engage and educate the electorate, compared to other parts of the nation, Gonzalez said.
“It’s sad enough that Latinos don’t vote, now you’re gonna cut that group in half,” Austin, Texas, resident Rachael Torres said of the state’s new strict photo ID law. “There’s no reason for that.” If people have legally registered to vote, that should be enough, said Torres who is a registered voter.
Torres said Latino voters don’t think their votes count so they don’t see the vote as a right they must exercise. She encourages other Latinos to vote, calling the ID law another “scare tactic” to discourage them.
Photo ID laws deter voters for several reasons, Saenz said. Some people do not have documents that prove their identity — they were born before it was common to issue birth certificates or they were born in rural areas where they might never have received the documents. Others might be deterred by the time and resources required to get the documents, Saenz said.
The Texas voter ID bill, SB-14, is one of the strictest photo ID laws. The Justice Department denied approval on the grounds that Texas violated Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act because of the disproportionate impact the law would have on minorities and the poor.
Democratic state legislators and civil rights groups such as MALDEF question the intent of the ID law, citing the lack of state studies to determine the potential impact on minorities and the racially motivated rhetoric behind the bill in the state with the nation’s second-largest Latino population.
At the federal court hearings in July, several state lawmakers testified about reasons Republicans gave for the ID law — hotly debated in the Texas Legislature since 2005. Democratic state Rep. Martinez Fischer described the debate as “goal posts that kept moving.” Justification included stopping illegal immigrants from voting, preventing voter fraud and maintaining election integrity, he said of the floor debate.
Despite allegations of discriminatory intent, Republican lawmakers and supporters of the bill maintain that it was designed to strengthen Texans’ confidence in the voting process.
“The purpose of SB-14 was to prevent in-person voter fraud,” Republican state Sen. Tommy Williams said. He was one of several Republican legislators called by Texas to testify.
Williams said he supported the bill because he thinks that voter impersonation occurs more than the numbers indicate. He testified that someone voted under his grandfather’s name until 1994 — 60 years after he died.
Republican state Sen. Jose Aliseda echoed Sen. Williams’ sentiments that the bill was not intended to disenfranchise minorities.
“The public expected us to pass the legislation,” he said. Aliseda testified that his constituents supported an ID law. Whether the law curbs voter fraud, he said, what was most important was that Texans’ wanted the legislation.
Del Valle, Texas, resident Juan Rosa said the ID law is a valuable safeguard. Rosa, who is from El Salvador, became a citizen in 2002 and has voted since then, he said. Latinos will have an impact in politics, he said, but first they need to vote. “We can’t actually raise up our voice if we don’t vote,” Rosa said.
The Texas Democratic Party has called the ID law an attempt to disenfranchise a community that has the potential to change the politics in a state that has been Republican for 30 years. Sixty-five percent of Latino voters said they would back Democrats in the 2010 election, according to the Pew Hispanic Center; 22 percent said they would vote Republican.
The Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law, a group opposing strict photo ID laws, reported that 6.3 percent of Latino voters in Texas lack the correct form of ID, compared to 4.3 percent of non-Latinos.
Until the photo ID law passed in 2011, Texans could vote by showing a variety of non-photo IDs ranging from their voter registration card to a utility bill showing their name and address.
Under SB-14, voters would be required to show photo ID, which could include a U.S. passport, driver’s license, military ID, citizenship certificate with a photo, an election identification certificate or a license to carry a concealed handgun.
Opponents also cite the burden placed on Texas residents to obtain the documents to acquire a government-issued photo ID.
Under the new law, the Texas Department of Public Safety would offer free photo IDs to registered voters who lack a valid ID. Individuals still would be required to present a birth certificate, citizenship papers, or additional documentation to obtain a state ID — documents many do not have, said Denise Lieberman, a civil rights lawyer with the Advancement Project, a Washington, D.C., policy, communications and legal action group committed to racial justice.
Lieberman and other opponents have argued that low-income, Latino residents do not have the money to pay for documents such as a birth certificate, which costs $22 in Texas, and more if it is mailed to voters. Supporters disagree.
Republican state Sen. Williams testified in the federal hearing that owning a birth certificate is a “fact of life” because it is necessary for so many things. So requiring voters to purchase one to obtain an ID isn’t an undue financial burden, he said.
Voter ID legislation also has forced states to consider the efficiency and accessibility of offices that issue photo IDs.
Democratic state Sen. Wendy Davis and Democratic state Rep. Rafael Anchia said their Texas constituents — many of whom work hourly wage jobs and rely on public transportation — also would be affected by the cost and time-consuming process of obtaining ID.
Eighty-one of the 254 counties in Texas do not have a Department of Motor Vehicles office, meaning an individual living in West Texas in Fort Hancock would have to travel either 50 miles west to El Paso or 66 miles east to Van Horn, Texas, where the office is only open Thursdays.
Despite his support for the voter ID law, Republican state Rep. Jose Aliseda — whose constituents mostly are rural farmers — acknowledged that it would be a burden on his district to require people to take a day off and drive 60 miles round trip to get an ID. Paying for the documents required to obtain a free election identification card would also be a financial burden, he said.
Anchia opposes SB-14, but he does not oppose a Texas photo ID law in the future. Legislators need to balance access to the franchise with ballot box security he said, and the Texas law does not strike that balance.
Ana Lastra, Lizzie Chen, Khara Persad and Jack Fitzpatrick of News21 contributed to this article.
Lindsey Ruta, Annelise Russell and Ana Lastra were Ethics and Excellence in Journalism Foundation Fellows, and Jack Fitzpatrick and Khara Persad were Hearst Foundations Fellows this summer for News21.
Discuss this series of stories on the Facebook page for Open Channel, the NBC News investigative blog.
Leave a Comment:
Hey fellows, let's steal the election again. Yay! It will work, I know it will. It worked for Bush didn't it?
Typical republican reply, third grade name calling. You embarass your party.
If you can't beat them, join them... I decided to ask everyone that I know, "Are you registered to vote." I was shocked to find how many are not...
So far I've gotten six families in my neighborhood registered... This just might backfire on the right wing nut cases...
All that people have to do is go on-line to...
www.registertovote.org
Pick your state, correctly fill in the information, "Are you citizen etc.?
McConnell crossed the line the first day of this administration. We could cope with that because it was so obvious. Typical unhonorable politics we have seen from both sides for years now. Now this new so called republican party is screwing with voting? That is right up there and equally beside our right to bear arms! You folks voting for these phonies has got to stop. Too many soldiers have died for this country's citizens right to vote! All this horse hockey will lead to is "big brother" stamping ID on our f'ing foreheads you ignorant fools. You republicans have got to be taught a lesson on how to vent your candidates. You all are looking like TRUE polarized idiots. Because you are!
If people spent half the time to acquire their voter IDs as they do arguing everybody would have their voter IDs already. There are 75 days between now and the November election and it only takes an hour to get in a line with your documents and get your ID. It's noon, if everybody just took care of business everyone would have their voter IDs by the end of the day.
If you can't BEAT'em, Cheat'em!!! The RETHUG way.....
Everyone best get used to having ID to vote or get any kind of service. People who walk into a doctors office, clinic or hospital are required to prove who they are anymore. Heck you can't even rent a video without ID any more. It's no different than in Europe where one needs a passport (not a Driver License) to travel anywhere.
Interesting that there are two stories right now about voter ID. One is talking about disenfranchising blacks and this one mentions latinos. Now, they dont' explain how said disenfranchised group needs ID to buy alcohol or cigarettes or enter a federal building but somehow, these people are unable to vote because they need an ID? Please, this is BS. The only ones whining about needing voter ID are democrats, isn't that interesting? Guess without the dead and illegals voting they don't stand a chance? Democrats motto: Vote early, vote often.
News flash from someone who already lives in Texas to PEW. Latinos already control much of Texas' politics and elections. In my county they occupy almost all of the local, county, state and national offices. The election commisioner is Hispanic The mayors of most cities are Hispanic. All three county sheriffs in my area are Hispanic. All the constables are Hispanic. Even the republicans running are Hispanic.
The USA government is always so involved in other contries to prevent voter fraud. I seriously feel the justice department needs to file charges against all those who purposely work to suppress legitiment rights. I say CHARGE THE PERSONS WITH THE FELONY THEY ARE ATTEMPTING.
There are those who don't want to protect voter ID laws, supposedly due to lack of fraud. Well, you immunize your kids before they get polio, whooping cough, or TB. You get insurance before your house burns down, before someone t-bones your car, and before you develop a catastrophic illness. There are laws against theft, rape and murder which protect those who haven't been robbed, raped or murdered yet.
Those who don't have an id to vote, also don't have the id to legally get a job or legally drive a car.
1POV - based on your responses, you have never lived in a rural community. Based on your logic, you must have earthquake insurance for your home - since that is more likely to happen than in person voter fraud.
You need an id - ID 10 T.
You have a picture of a bull as your avatar, so I'm guessing you don't live in a major city, and if I'm wrong, I can guarantee you don't live in a predominantly minority neighborhood.
Because if you did, you would kinda know that requiring IDs are a little lax.
I hope I didn't shock your sensitive Republican sensibilities.
You might also want to know the following: people can buy illegal drugs, people drink and drive, and people can obtain weapons without a proper permit.
Seriously.
So, your argument kinda sucks.
Thanks.
Shosyn
This so called news organization has put out at least THREE articles, very recently, about three different groups of people, who they say will have a hard time voting because they have to show ID...
Fell free to click each name to see the propaganda...err articles.
1. SENIORS
2. COLLEGE STUDENTS
3. LATINOS
Imagine that.... I say they have an AGENDA and are NOT reporting news.
and guess what...today all three articles are at the TOP of the headlines lingering for no reason.
Dear NBC... print the news and stop the propaganda. This is why this network has a the worst rating in television. As for NEWS21, what a total joke.
this whole article, and it's sister articles are all CRAP.
CORRECTION: Correct link to the LATINO propaganda.
LATINO
this election and the voter id law is so racist it is the 60s all over; if obama was white would there be a voter id law;
How is it racist?typical liberal crybaby,why should you have picture ID?waaaaaahhhhh,no id no vote pinko
Typical republican reply, third grade name calling. You embarass your party.
If Obama was white he wouldn't be president
Hey Dan-410533...
Ever hear of ACORN???
here is a little minor history here for your uninformed brain...
It's racist because there is no reason for this voter ID law other than restricting eligible people from voting...
They didn't do this after Bush/Gore election in Florida... Did they?
But now, 34 states have decided to change the rules just before the re-election of our first black president... Give me a break, if that's not being racist I don;t know what is...
There are some people who ought to be ashamed to call themselves Americans...
Why is it racist? What's racist about having to identify yourself? If you want to cash a check, even at your own bank, you have to show an ID. If you get stopped for a traffic violation, you have to show an ID. I don't see what the problem is in showing an ID to vote.
Why is it restricting them? Who can go through life in this country without some form of legal identification? Drivers license, student ID, Military ID, passport, Welfare ID, gun permit, Liquor ID.
If they can manage to get to the polls to vote w/o a drivers license, they should be able to manage to get to the town hall to get a photo ID.
Republicans want everyone to follow the law, Democrats want people to break them. And no, this law or ANY other law that requires you to show I.D. isn't racist in any way! But we do have a large group of people who are illegally here, and voting!! That is not right!! One of the privilages of obtaining citizenship is the right to vote.
The only reason to not have ID is if you're hiding something. In which case, you don't deserve to have your vote counted. If ID was required to get free cheese none of those poor disenfranchised folks would have any problem getting an ID. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK TEXAS, THE ONLY STATE IN THE COUNTRY WITH AN EXPRESS LANE TO THE ELECTRIC CHAIR
Racist????
Charlie, in case you forgot Obama is white, his is half black and half white. This has nothing to do with racism it has to do with upholding our laws. I don't care where your from, just make sure you can prove you are here legally.
If you want to talk about trying to disenfranchise someone, you should look at what Obama is doing to our Military. Now that is disgusting! I don't hear any of you on here talking about how we should make sure ever member of the Militaries votes count.
It is racist - especially against hispanics. Conservatives are fearful of the hispanic population increase - so they have reinvented the Jim Crow Laws. Wake-up conservatives - you are more likely to be struck by lightning than to have someone commit in person voter fraud. Why did you support invading Iraq - that's right, because of WMDs. Once again, you conservatives are supporting an idea based on lies that has an ulterior motive.
The reality is that for each true case of voter fraud, this will prevent thousands of legitimate voters from voting.
Conservatives - your racism is unseemly - hiding behind these lies to perpetrate fraud, hatred and fear on your fellow citizens.
Bull@!$%#. Everybody is eligible to get an ID. Everybody with an ID is eligible to vote. If you don't take the time to get the ID that's not the fault of the law, that is your own fault.
Quote from the above article -
"Photo ID laws deter voters for several reasons, Saenz said. Some people do not have documents that prove their identity — they were born before it was common to issue birth certificates or they were born in rural areas where they might never have received the documents. Others might be deterred by the time and resources required to get the documents, Saenz said."
There are people in other countries that walk for days to vote. If someone here can't be bothered to find the time to get their documentation and go get their ID then they have CHOSEN not to vote because nobody has stopped them from voting but themselves.
What's next ? Poor and minorities being disenfranchised because we don't bring the voting machine to their house ? I mean if it's too much trouble to go get an ID it must also be too much trouble to have to actually go somewhere to vote.
There's no racism in this at all since it applies to EVERYONE that if you have no approved ID you don't get to vote.
I believe that the voter's registration and the regular ID should work for everyone in this nation. I think its a political mess to have Texas and other states near them to have a special voters ID. In Arizona its even hard to get a driver's license if you are hispanic. This is being racist against them. It sounds like the 1930's when they tried to send all latinos to Mexico even if they were born in USA or came here as a small child. How would you like to be sent to a country that you never been to or never spoke their language?
You don't need a voters ID. You only need one of the approved PHOTO IDs such as drivers license, state ID card, military ID, VA card or others. Most people are covered by already having at least one of those mentioned. The others have plenty of time to go get a state ID card that costs $10 which is about the cost of a six pack of beer, less than two packs of cigarettes, or three gallons of gas at $3.33 a gal, maybe two and a half gallons or less depending on the current price.
It's not expensive and as far as transportation goes the same pewrson that takes you to the food stamp office, the doctor, or grocery store can most likely find the time to take you by the drivers license office to get a state ID between now and Nov. 5. If you don't have your BC you have time to get one in order to get your state ID card, but maybe not if you wait til the day before election day, which would be ones own fault for waiting so long.
The 24th amendment to the constitution outlaws "poll taxes". Any financial impediment to voting is considered to be a poll tax.
I don't care if it costs 1 penny to cast a ballot, IT IS STILL A POLL TAX.
Hmmm...I have to pay to get myself to the voting booth. According to your logic, that's a poll tax. Sorry, not buying the "poll tax" argument. If you can be required to show ID for a million other things in life, there's no valid reason for not requiring it at the voting booth.
Gov't can assist eligible citizens in obtaining the requisite ID...and nobody said they shouldn't.
If they are legal, what's the big deal of showing ID?
Many older Americans were not born in a hospital and don't have a (required) birth certificate, many don't have the money (poll tax) to pay for an ID, many don't have the transportation to get to a registration site, etc. etc. etc. Maybe we should bar anybody that ever got a draft deferrment (draft dodging) from voting.
That's pretty feeble Dan. I'm 68 and NOBODY I know (including people as old as 94) was not born in a hospital. So don't use that as an excuse for liberals trying to steal ANOTHER election. another point; maybe only vets should be allowed to vote.
In response to Dan. My mother was born at home in 1925 she has a birth certificate. I was born at home, so were 7 of the remaining 11 children in my family. We all have Birth Certificates? What are you talking about?
My mother was born at home in 1925, and I still have her original birth certificate. So that's BS. That might have been true 150yrs ago....but not today.
With these "deferred action" folks getting IDs, how would a pollster know if they're eligible to vote or not?
Janine Maybe they took better care of you white folk. My mom was born in 1933 and her name is not even on her birth certificate. And my sister.. born 1949 and she only had a first name on her's and it was spelled wrong.
As for my mom's sister who was born in 1931 they keep telling her that my grandmother must be mistaken as to where and when she had her. So don't tell me it's easy to get a birth certificate. Don't associate getting a drivers license with someone having lived or not. If you are not racist, then you are just plain ignorant to facts and just following what MOX told ya.
Nice! Assume that the other poster is white, AND then assume that equates to having someone take better care of her? That's pretty racist behavior.
It has been nearly 50 years since passing of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, so what's the excuse for not getting one's identification documents straightened out sometime during the past half-century?? Dealing with idiotic bureaucrat BS isn't an excuse--we ALL have to deal with idiot bureaucrats from time to time. They simply don't teach kids to THINK in these schools anymore.
P.S. Nobody is requiring a "driver's license." The requirement is for a "gov't-issued photo ID"--those two are not automatically the same thing, although a driver's license IS a form of gov't-issued photo ID. Don't associate having a photo ID with having to have a driver's license. And nobody is questioning whether someone lived or not, either. If you're standing in front of me and breathing, it's pretty obvious that you're alive. The question is whether you are, in fact, the registered voter presenting him/herself at the ballot box to vote.
Can someone explain to me why requiring a person to pay for a government issued photo ID before he or she can vote isn't considered a poll tax? If we required voters to buy a $500 ID card we would call it a poll tax and it would be considered unconstitutional. The billionaire asked the pretty lady if she would sleep with him just once for $10 million. She said "yes". Then he asked if she would do it for $20. She replied "Just what do you think I am?" He says "We've already determined that...Now we are just negotiating the price!" This is a poll tax unless the government is going to start issuing ID cards at government expense.
My question is WHY do they not already have some form of legal ID to start with?
Lets see, without some from of Legal photo ID you cannot legally drive a car, fire a gun, be in the military, collect any form of welfare or unemployment, apply for SS or any other benefit, cash a check, use a credit card, fly anywhere, buy cigarettes or liquor.
I just don't get what the hassle is all about. If they legal citizens, what is the problem with having identification?
And they also need to provide the documents necessary to register for free. Because, contrary to right wing shills' claims to the contrary, the need for birth certficates, marriage licenses, and divorce decrees are not routine. If they are being purchased specifically to be able to register to vote, they need to be provided free of charge, and that includes documents from other states. The reason why state Voter ID laws have withstood scrutiny is because they have provisions for free IDs. Despite the claims of the Texas Representative, that includes any document specifically needed to register to vote.
This is nothing but the targeting of demographics likely to vote Democratic. Pure and simple.
And for those who bring up ACORN, learn the differences between voter impersonation fraud and registration fraud (and who is being defrauded; in the case of ACORN, you are blaming the victim).
Question4us, in Texas you can get a state issued I'd for free, we also have public transportation to take them there. What I don't get is if they can get to the polling place, whats going to keep them from getting an I'd. They have churches you can get Id's at plus you have Dems that will pick them up by the bus load, and take them to the polling places. This is just an excuse to let illegals vote, It's not that hard on them since everything is printed in English, and Spanish, they just want something to whine about.
Despite all the cries of disenfranchising minority voters, states who already enacted voter ID laws have seen no decline in minority voting. Georgia saw an increase after their recently enacted voter ID law. Most states do have a provision for free IDs (not necessarily driver's licenses) for those who need them. Florida will even help people obtain the required documentation if they need this help. In 2004 a bipartisan commission led by James Baker (R) and Jimmy Carter (D) concluded that voter ID rules are a good thing to reassure voters that the system is fair, and that it will not disenfranchise minorities IF free IDs are available. Why do Dems love to support or appoint commissions and then ignore their recommendations?
And the DOJ taking actions against southern states based on the 1964 Civil Rights Act is ludicrous. Does anyone think the makup of Floridians is anything like it was in '64? We have had over 300,000 New yorkers move here recently. Congress is long overdue to repeal the portion of the law that still levies special requirements on certain states or counties based on extremely outdated demographics.
You're right only in that nobody typically carts around their birth certificate in their wallet in their daily routine. However, those documents ARE routinely required for obtaining the IDs that are required for nearly everything people do in daily life anymore--bank account, driving, credit card, welfare, cashing a check, buying booze/cigarettes, travel outside the country (very common for people who live along the borders to cross frequently, so don't bother arguing that it can't be routine), etc. So yes, having a copy of your birth certificate sitting in a safe place IS a routine requirement for any responsible adult. As for marriage licenses and divorce decrees, those are both legal documents pertaining to life decisions a person makes as an adult that directly affect identification and eligibility for various things, so maintaining a copy of those IS also a routine requirement for any responsible adult. They are also not difficult to replace if you are unfortunate enough to lose them in a fire or accidentally spill something on them.
As usual, republicans make up a non-existing scenario to cover the tracks of their dirty tricks. Even though this is against the fifteenth amendment of our constitution, we'll make up a phantom reason, that everybody knows is hogwash, and get away with it. Welcome to 21st century America, where lying, cheating and stealing is acceptable, and ethics are only something to look the other way on. This is where the story gets muddled on "punishing success". We don't hate success, we hate cheaters.
Dan-410533
read the line I put in bold in your weak sauce statement and that is exactly how I see illegal aliens in the U.S.A.
You'd think there might be a little outrage that American citizens might lose their right to vote here, and that perhaps the people that introduced such bills might build in a little extra effort to make sure that doesn't happen. If you're outraged about the possibility that fraud might sway a vote, shouldn't you also be outraged if righteous Americans were not able to vote? Unless you really were trying to block them from voting that is.
Dan,
I get my ID out to do simple banking, get medical attention and go to school everyday. I also carry my ID everywhere I go. I use my ID at the DMV, the civil court house, the bank, even when a police officer pulls me over for a minor infraction...
but for you and your ilk to vote??? OH SCREW THAT HAVING AND ID IS AGAINST MY RIGHTS!!!!!
You know what I say to your candy ass agenda... if you are to much of a imbecile to carry proper ID, in the 21st century, then you are REALLY STUPID.
Personally, I do want ALL American citizens to vote, every election- as we all know the silent majority have been over run by the outspoken Liberals for years. Most of who does not vote now are the hard working middle class that simply want to earn a living for their family.
But, I do not want 1) non-Citizens to vote 2) activist (Acorn) to vote and vote often, 3) Mickey Mouse (Acorn) to vote.....
How many cases of people that you know get rejected from voting (except the Florida Military during Gores run), that came thru as they should have voted???????
Dan, I have no worries about losing my right to vote, and have no desire to stop any Legal American citizen from voting. If people are so worried about having an identification to PROVE who they are, what are they hiding?
Dan
You must be just like your picture.... a puppet. Your arguments are crap. I will agree that 75 years ago that record keeping had a lot to be desired but that was 75 years ago. What has been the excuse for the last 20 years or so to fix this problem? Could it be laziness?
Its the same as taking a drug test for work. The only people that complain are the ones that are on drugs.
YOU NEED A GOVT PHOTO ID (D.L.) to buy a drink, board a plane, buy a pack of smokes, enter security sensitive buildings, rent a car, use a major Credit Card at a hotel, cash a check, ENTER THE COUNTRY, hmmm.... what else am I forgetting??? GET OVER IT PEOPLE. Just because a group of people are apathetic towards voting doesnt mean you have to hold their hand and drag them to the polls. Its a free country. Maybe they dont WANT to vote. Maybe they dont understand how the country works because they NEVER WENT THROUGH LEGAL IMMIGRATION!!!
Voting is extremely important- not something that should be compared to renting a movie with your high school photo I.D. - its takes a well educated individual to make informed decisions - not something people look forward to doing these days... thinking for themselves that is!
Dan-410533
Many older Americans were not born in a hospital and don't have a (required) birth certificate, many don't have the money (poll tax) to pay for an ID, many don't have the transportation to get to a registration site, etc. etc. etc. Maybe we should bar anybody that ever got a draft deferrment (draft dodging) from voting.
This such a load of crap, you should be embarassed by writing it. If they live in this country, they have an ID.
But you don't present that argument at the liquor counter.
enough of this nonsense. It's time for a social uprising.
Not requiring proof of ID for the most important thing a Citizen can do is just non-sense. When the Liberals quit passing laws to show proof of ID to purchase a gun, finance a car, etc. - then I may change my mind.
How can you claim it will discriminate against anyone. All the arguments against it are weak (to be nice). Someone said it is hard for some to go get one cause they are so poor - well, how are they getting to the polls to vote, ask that person to take them to get a form of ID??? Someone said the Hispanics would go vote even less - they are at a 30% turnout, maybe they should be much more comfortable if they showed a proof of ID like the person in front of them, if they are not turning out because someone may think they are illegal...
The only reason to be against this that makes any sense to me and most other people is that not requiring one could make it a little easier to vote and vote often....
Explain to me why the Liberals and Democrats do not want voter ID laws, but they did their best on numerous occasions of the past three elections (and they have one challenge going on now) that trys to prevent our MILITARY from voting (remember Florida a few years ago)...
How stupid do democrats think latinos are?
Democrats think the average Mexican immigrant is far to ignorant to have ID? Yet their home country has drivers licenses, passports and ID cards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_Mexico
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matr%C3%ADcula_Consular
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country
Apparently every country on EARTH has passports, ID cards and/or drivers license.
Except the United States of America,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,where (according to Democrats) anyone not white is far to stupid to know about these things. Why have democrats let their charges slip so far behind the rest of the world? To deny minorities even the basic knowledge that ID exists is tragic, yet Democrats did it to their voters.
Oddly, I spent decades serving our nation in the military and NEVER once met a minority of any race who was totally surprised to get an ID card. Maybe we are picking the elite citizens after all?
Voter ID is a violation of the 15th amendment. This is Voter Suppression at its finest.
Watch the video and sign the petition to end Voter Suppression.
The Fifteenth Amendment (Amendment XV) to the United States Constitution prohibits each government in the United States from denying a citizen the right to vote based on that citizen's "race, color, or previous condition of servitude" (for example, slavery). It was ratified on February 3, 1870.
Show us the part about ID?
Not one voter ID law in the United States excludes or denies anyone the right to vote based on race or previous condition of servitude.
Any person without ID ( and the number of acceptable forms of ID are nearly limitless in most cases) is prevented from voting regardless of their race, creed, color, sex, age or nation of origin. It is a law, applied evenly and fairly across the country.
We know why you fear it. "Even", "fair", "honest" and "truthful" are scary words to a democrat. Without race-baiting, fear-mongering, terrorist threats and bribes in the promise of "free govt money, food, medical, housing, cars and cellphones, your party has no platform.
You have to have ID to vote, to be able to prove you are the person who is claiming the ballot.
Democrats fear this because they are the party of voter fraud.
What is so hard about showing ID for voting?
When you cash a check you need ID
When you go to a hotel you have to show ID
When you go to the court house you have to show ID
When you purchase a cell phone you have to show ID
WTF is wrong with these people?
You can get a Government ID at any state DMV or library.
Can I play?
What is so hard about not thinking that every county/city operates like yours
If I get paid cash I don't need to show government issued ID
If I don't go to hotels I don't need to show government issued ID
When I go to court, wait... I've never had to go to court.. so I don't need to show government issued ID
Cellphone? I only use my land line. I don't need to show government issued ID
WTF is wrong with people thinking that everyone lives the same way in this country?
P.S. for a great many libraries are a repository of books, not a place to get Government ID
Also some of those places/ services accept forms of ID in lieu of Government issued ID..ie a job ID and recent pay stub
Ever board a plane?
Buy a gun?
Buy a hunting or fishing license?
Pawn anything?
Rent anything?
Run a tab at a bar?
Enter a bar?
Buy smokes?
Pick up drugs at a legal pharmacy?
Take the White House tour so you can sniff where messiah sits?
Apply for a marriage license?
Request public records?
Enter a military base?
Sign a lease?
Test drive a car?
Apply for a car loan?
Buy insurance?
Purchase a home?
Ever attended a high school or college? They provide ID free with enrollment.
Left this country and tried to re-enter?
Tried to enter another country?
Impress us,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,tell us of the many ways you have escaped the "grid".
#14.2
Get a job?
Get a bank account?
Apply for Medicaid?
Apply for WIC?
Apply for food stamps?
Apply for HUD housing?
Go to the ER?
Buy beer?
Pick up certain mail at Post Office?
Lease a car?
Car rental?
But then the state that I live in has the voter motto: "Vote early, vote often, and here's the bus to take you to the neighboring state to do the same."
In California we don't require an ID to vote nor do we plan to. We have a had NO cases of voter fraud here in several decades, and I'm pretty sure there hasn't been any problem to speak of anywhere else. This is a NON problem is search of a solution, a law put together by "model legislation committees" in ALEC and then farmed out to states with Republican administrations for rubber stamp passage. The purpose is voter suppression pure and simple in both the Presidential and Congressional elections.Without this there is no way Romney/ Ryan would win the election. Who is pulling the strings on these puppets?
A challenge: CITE THE CASES OF "VOTER FRAUD" THAT MADE THESE LAWS NECESSARY. Try not to make anything up. Now, now - no tall tales!
Are you really sure about all that?
jvmusiciandart -
Don't be lazy. Do yoour own research. Google "Acorn voter fraud," then "voter fraud." It will take you a while to read all the reports.
One of the many reasons I am leaving California!! Before this state really goes down!
Actually, you are the one who is lazy if you think the ACORN cases (which have been overblown) are cases of voter fraud. Learn the difference between registration fraud and voter impersonation fraud. And, in fact, figure out the economics and logistics of election fraud. Voter impersonation fraud is the least effective and highest risk means to try to fraudulently influence an outcome.
The danger of election fraud in this country is not in the casting, it is in the counting, and I have seen very little concern or outcry about that.
I'll take Bell, California for $1000.00 Alex.
Wow just wow using California as a model/example for anything is a joke. I love Cali but please. Just because Cali has not, according to you, documented cases of voter fraud does not mean it does not happen.
When California can pay its own bills you can start to hold them up as a standard to us all.
this is straight out a chance for the ''republithugs,to disenfrnchise,voters,Texas didnt require a photo I.D.prior
to 2011,now you must have some form of a photo I.D.You can get a free photo I.D.from D.P.S.But you must show a birth certificate,or,citizenship papers,or a military I.D.or a license to carry a concealed handgun.But before 2011,all you needed was just a regisration card,or a utiility bill with your name an address on it.
Wow such a burden show some form of ID which proves your a citizen to get a free ID. I feel so sorry for you it must be quite the hardship. Those republicans really did it this time with those insurmountable requirements. I see you have child does she have a birth certificate?
You know what, you Repubs may be suprised...even with your skeems, it's gonna be Obama/Biden 2012. Bet you will scratch your head on the toilet when that happens want ya. LOL It's amazing all the lies and tricks you guys can come up with. I hope you can sleep at night. But Remember the bible speaks of this "if it doesn't happen to you, it will happen to your children" so keep up the good work and you claim to be so christian. Do you guys read the bible or not? It's not a coloring book people.
I've never understood the "utility bill" one. With that as the "ID" any clown could take your mail and head to the polls. And if you're talking about using it for registering to vote, a utility bill does nothing to prove the person is 1) a citizen and 2) eligible to vote.
The Latino vote would help them win. Oh well, Republicans will win anyhow.
I have no problem with showing an ID before I vote.
What I DO have a problem with is the reasoning behind all these Voter ID Laws. It has nothing to do with protecting America. (Cue the Star Spangled Banner, and wave the flag, please. "Vote for me!") It has absolutely EVERYTHING to do with keeping potential Democratic voters from voting.
I say go ahead and pass the Voter ID laws, and the Democrats can score big points by assisting these populations in procuring proper and legal ID cards; which I feel they should have anyway.
Unfortunately, I suspect the Democrats will screw up that operation as well. (Recalling the blotched ACORN voter registration drive.)
I am a hispanic but most importantly a Republican woman and I DON'T MIND ONE BIT showing my ID. I wish people would quit saying it is a scare tactic because the bottom line is that if a family regardless of color or race do not show the younger generation the importance of voting then chances are they will never go in to vote! Democrats are against it because let's face it they are after the minority vote because most of the people are ignorant of the issues at hand and they will convince them that Republicans want to take medicare, medicaid and jobs away etc. My parents used to vote Democrat until I started explaining issues to them when I turned 18 and went to vote a Republican ticket my parents went in with a clearer view and voted Republican as well since they understood the issues better....happy to say my aunt and uncle did too after being Democrats for all their lives!!!!
clear head would be voting democratic the repukes are idiots with failed policies and no ideas. They are all idiots there is not a single intelligient republican alive
Now THAT was a refreshing post. We DO need to teach our children the importance of voting and being good citizens. And no one should vote blindly without taking the time to educate themselves on the issues and the facts--not the factoid propaganda spin the media puts out, the actual facts (whether we think they are good OR bad).
What is a Latino?
If you call what we have now as good then one could see why you want four more years. Insanity is demanding four more years of THIS!
The timing of all these laws is suspect at best. We haven't had a voter fraud issue of any magnitude in the last century that this would fix; however, the GOP is hellbent on implementing a solution to a non-existent problem 120 days before a national general election. Why is that? Is there no reason to wait until 2013, or is there some underlying reason they need to do this before November? You tell me.
Only those who actually pay income taxes and those in the military should be allowed to vote. All the free loaders can stay home and watch the returns on TV's that we purchased.
Something that is missed by all but a few here is the idea of Government issued ID. They have limited the type of ID that will be accepted to a point where it tilts the playing field towards Republicans. If it is simply a photo ID, why do they exclude student ID's but allow gun permits. The insurance company often has photo ID's again not acceptable. In Pennsylvania the ID must be current or expired less than 1 yr. Come on, you can spin this anyway you want, it is geared to disenfranchise Democratic leaning voters. Dense city populations which in many cases never drive. Low income people which often use public transportation as they can't afford cars or insurance. There is no way to color this any color except a concerted effort to try and steal an election that they know they can not win otherwise. For the first time in our history all of a sudden voter fraud is a crisis. Why not make it an issue for the next presidential election giving everyone time to have an effective and fair policy in place. Cram them through just months before an election, really. Do not try to defend this. Call it what it is. Republicans are afraid of democracy, they truly in their hearts do not beleive that a certain segment of ur society is smart enough to vote. They truly believe this. As far as they are concerned if you are poor, or minority you are stupid and should not be allowed to vote. They have no interest in ruling by democratic majority, if you don't believe this check how bills the Republicans in the Senate have fillibustered instead of allowing to pass by majority. Th.e number is overwhelming compared to any time in our history
Oh please the densely populated cities always go to the democrats by a large margin, thanks the entitlement mentality and the democrat campaign of fear mongering. Voter ID laws are not going to win california or new york for the republicans.
Name one example of democratic fear mongering. I will name ten republican examples for every one of yours! Do you even know what fear mongering is? An example is: republicans walking up and down lines of voters on election day, warning minorities about the trouble they could be in if all isn't "proper", scaring them off, etc, etc, etc.
No problem brad...
Just the other day Biden told people the republicans wanted them back in chains.
Watch some of Obama's campaign commercials.
Romney killed a guy's wife cause the guy lost his job.
Ryan is going to throw old people over a cliff by reforming a broken system.
Want me to continue?
The whole voter ID outrage is in itself fear mongering.
You'll notice Obama can't run commercials touting his record all he can do is try to divide people and scare them.
I think you owe me 40 example now brad. Don't worry I won't hold my breath.
"There is no way to color this any color except a concerted effort to try and steal an election that they know they can not win otherwise. For the first time in our history all of a sudden voter fraud is a crisis. Why not make it an issue for the next presidential election giving everyone time to have an effective and fair policy in place. Cram them through just months before an election, really. Do not try to defend this."
You mean like granting pseudo amnesty to illegal aliens right before an election. Despite the fact that in his first two years he had control of congress and did nothing about immigration.
Brad, David doesn't know. LOL he just repeat repeat MOX wannabe NEWS heads. Repubs can not be this stupid. But then again, they do try hard to prove me wrong.
Actually I don't watch the news on t.v., but if that helps you sleep better.... My thoughts are own unlike the sheep who think that by making fun of fox they are making an intelligent thought through point. Try to actually refute anything I said as opposed to calling me a name. I did have trouble reading your gibberish though. Thing is you can not refute anything I have said just like brad could not which is why he never replied despite his pledge to do so. Oh wait, he's too busy I guess.
What in my post is wrong? Those are political ads paid for by democrats, and it is plain to see the point is fear and division. Exactly "here we go again", call me dumb again while making an error filled post that has absolutely no value.
Err...it is a "gov't-issued photo ID" not just any photo ID. Student ID? Typically NOT a gov't-issued ID. Gun permit? Yeah, those are gov't-issued. Insurance company ID? Are you kidding? And as for the PA law, I don't know why they should accept an EXPIRED form of ID at all. It wouldn't do you any good trying to use an expired ID anywhere else, so why the exception?
Now, regarding college students in particular:
College students must vote in their legal state of residence and not where they happen to attend school--so for many students that would actually be via the use of an absentee ballot mailed to their home state. For those college students that are going to college within their home state, PLEASE tell me what their excuse is for not getting a gov't-issued photo ID (assuming they haven't already gotten a driver's license--the majority of kids DO typically at least TRY to get one of those before they leave high school...)? I'm sure that Mommy and Daddy would be very happy to take their college student to get a photo ID and register them to vote at the same time. They could even do that before they GO to college (provided the student is at least 18 by then)--problem solved.
Way to make a mountain out of a non-issue.
Why does everyone assume that presenting ID's only affects Liberal voters or minorities? Talk about stereotyping or profiling.. How bout only allowing those who actually pay income taxes and the military voting rights after all, it is their money and lives at stake? What party do you think would dominate the elections? Everyone else can stay home and watch the returns on their flat screen TV's purchased by the taxpayers.
Ask for an ID and the hispanic vote might go down in numbers. Imagine that, of course we all know that illegals would never try to vote. That would be illegal
Notice how the people who squawk about this issue are silent about the same requirement at airports and liquor purchases! Hypocrites come in all colors, sizes, shapes and origins.
Agreed. If you do not have an ID how do you get by? How do you buy alcohol, tobacco, drive a car or even cash a check?
Oh, in their joke of an article on how the black vote could go down, they talk about this guy who says he has never had a photo ID in his life (yet somehow managed to register to vote and voted for decades) and he says he just lets checks sit around and expire because he can't cash them because he hasn't bothered to get an ID. Talk about LAZY!
To top it off...the guy's reason takes the cake: His birth certificate and Social Security card both have the SAME wrong name on them. That's right, he says the midwife wrote the wrong name on the birth certificate when he was born (of course, why his parents didn't fix that when they registered him and ordered the Social Security card wasn't addressed in the article). Anyhow, the guy goes through life using one name, while his birth certificate and Social Security card have a completely different name on them. He could have gotten a photo ID issued in THAT name any time he wanted! But instead of taking the time to get his documents straightened out (or his name legally changed) in his 59 years on the planet, or simply getting a photo ID in what is for all intents and purposes his LEGAL name--he opted to do neither, yet he now complains that he is worried he won't be able to get an ID to vote. He might not be able to get an ID in the name he goes by, but there's nothing stopping the dude from getting an ID in his legal name right now except his laziness (presumably he'd have to change the name on his bills, etc., although how he got those bills without an ID in the name he's using is also not addressed in the article).
Sounds like possible voter registration fraud to me...using a name to vote that doesn't match the name on your birth certificate and Social Security card?
Here's the link to the article: http://jim5769.newsvine.com/_news/2012/08/16/13323066-will-new-photo-id-laws-keep-down-the-black-vote-in-the-south-open-channel