'Travesty of justice': State quietly dropped violations and fine in workplace death

L.V. Hall via Center for Public Intergrity

Tina Hall and her husband, L.V., in 2005. Tina Hall was fatally burned in a workplace accident in Franklin, Ky., two years later. Courtesy of L.V. Hall

Around midnight on June 1, 2007, Tina Hall was finishing her shift in a place she loathed: the mixing room at the Toyo Automotive Parts factory in Franklin, Ky., where flammable chemicals were kept in open containers.

A spark ignited vapors given off by toluene, a solvent Hall was transferring from a 55-gallon drum to a hard plastic bin. A flash fire engulfed the 39-year-old team leader, causing third-degree burns over 90 percent of her body. She died 11 days later.


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After investigating the accident, the Kentucky Labor Cabinet’s Department of Workplace Standards cited Toyo for 16 “serious” violations and proposed a $105,500 fine in November 2007.

“You’re disappointed because you think, that’s all they got fined?” Hall’s sister, Amy Harville, of Moulton, Ala., said in a telephone interview. “But then I thought, at least they got 16 violations. I was thinking they’d stick, as severely as she was burned.”


The violations didn’t stick. Every one of them went away in 2008, as did the fine, after Toyo’s lawyer vowed to contest the enforcement action in court. Last month, in a move believed to be unprecedented in Kentucky, the Department of Workplace Standards reinstated all the violations because, it said, the company hadn’t made promised safety improvements.

 

 

The case was another black eye for state-run workplace health and safety programs nationwide. In all, 26 states administer their own programs under federal supervision. Several have been criticized in recent years for capitulating to lawyered-up employers, performing subpar inspections and shutting out accident victims’ families.

Officials in Kentucky didn’t tell Harville and Hall’s husband that the Toyo violations had been dismissed. They found out in 2010 only because Ron Hayes, a fellow Alabamian who runs a nonprofit advocacy group for families of fallen workers, had taken an interest in the case and checked in regularly with the Department of Workplace Standards.

Hayes — whose son, Pat, died in a Florida grain elevator accident in 1993 — lodged a formal complaint against Kentucky with the U.S. Department of Labor’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which concluded in June 2011 that the state had erred.

“Deleting citations in their entirety sends a signal to employers that they need only contest to alleviate the burden of history,” OSHA’s regional administrator in Atlanta, Cindy Coe, wrote to Hayes.

In a written statement, Kentucky’s Department of Workplace Standards said it dismissed the violations after determining that “the case would not have withstood legal challenge.” Instead, the department and Toyo entered into a settlement agreement, which provided for follow-up inspections. Toyo’s alleged failure to meet the terms of that agreement led to the reinstatement of the violations last month.

The reinstatement showed that the violations never should have been dropped in the first place, Hayes said. “It’s vindication, because we said all along this was wrong,” he said.

The president of Toyo Automotive Parts did not return calls seeking comment. In a 2008 legal filing, Toyo denied responsibility for Tina Hall’s death, calling the accident “the result of unforeseeable, isolated acts undertaken by an individual employee.”

Problems in the states
Under the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970, states that choose to regulate workplace health and safety must ensure that their programs are “at least as effective” as the federal one. OSHA pays up to half the cost of such programs and is supposed to keep tabs on them.

By some accounts, it hasn’t done a particularly good job. After press reports about a rash of construction worker deaths in Las Vegas, OSHA reviewed the Nevada program in 2009 and found a long list of flaws. Among them: State inspectors weren’t sufficiently trained to identify construction hazards and were discouraged by managers from issuing “willful” violations — which suggest an employer showed “plain indifference to the law” and can lead to stiff penalties — to avoid protracted court battles.

OSHA looked at the programs in the 25 other states that administer their own, finding deficiencies such as uncollected penalties in North Carolina and misclassified violations in South Carolina. Kentucky, OSHA found, was taking too long to issue citations and wasn’t making complainants aware of “specific official findings.”

In 2011, the Labor Department’s inspector general reported that OSHA hadn’t found a suitable way to measure the effectiveness of state programs. In his response to the IG, OSHA chief David Michaels wrote that the agency was developing a new monitoring system that would involve, among other things, reviews of state enforcement case files.

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Still, Hayes believes that “systemic problems” persist. “Oversight from federal OSHA has been lacking for the past 42 years,” he said. “There are so many different problems from state to state.”

Indeed, Hawaii’s program — described as “poor” in a 2010 OSHA report — has been severely hampered by budget and staffing cuts for the past three years. Things got so bad that state officials recently asked the federal government for help.

‘The Five Commitments’ 
In its 2007 annual report, Toyo Tire & Rubber Co., a Japanese conglomerate that makes tires, auto parts and chemicals in plants around the world, lists what it calls “The Five Commitments.”

“We make safety our highest priority in the provision of products and services,” reads Commitment No. 2.

Tina Hall thought otherwise, according to her husband. At the time of the accident in June 2007, she was trying to transfer out of the Franklin plant’s adhesive department because the job required her to spend time in the mixing room, where toxic and flammable chemicals were stored.

“She talked about how bad the fumes were in that room,” said L.V. Hall, who lives in Bremen, Ala. “She said something about the disposal of chemicals — they weren’t doing it right. I’d been wanting her to get out of that mess.”

Tina Hall and other team leaders would go into the mixing room to fill plastic bins, known as totes, with solvents such as toluene. They’d clean gummed-up machine fixtures in the totes. Team leaders also would fill five-gallon buckets with solvents and carry them to adhesive machines on the factory floor. The solvents were used to take residue off the machines.

Kentucky’s Department of Workplace Standards would later cite Toyo for obstructing exit routes in the mixing room, not keeping flammable liquids in covered containers when they weren’t being used, failing to control vapors and having inadequate fire-protection equipment.

On the night of the accident, Tina Hall was cleaning fixtures by herself when a spark, likely caused by static electricity, ignited toluene vapors and set off an explosion in a 55-gallon drum of methyl isobutyl ketone, another solvent.

Then a General Motors assembly line worker, L.V. Hall was awakened at home in Auburn, Ky., by a call from a Toyo team leader around midnight. His wife, on fire, had managed to get outside and roll on the ground. “How she got outside I don’t know,” Hall said. “It was like an obstacle course to find the exit door.”

Tina Hall was taken to a local hospital, then to Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, about 45 minutes away. L.V. had a brief talk with her before the doctors put her into a coma to shield her from the pain. “She said, ‘I did everything the way I was supposed to do it,’” Hall said. His wife drifted off and never regained consciousness. She died on June 12, 2007.

'Travesty of justice'
Not long afterward Tina Hall’s younger sister, Amy Harville, was directed to Ron Hayes by an acquaintance. Burly, white-bearded and tenacious, Hayes lives in Fairhope, Ala., and runs the FIGHT Project, which helps families navigate the bureaucracy of workplace fatality investigations. Hayes counseled Harville and L.V. Hall as the state’s inquiry into the Toyo accident progressed.

When the Department of Workplace Standards issued 16 serious violations against the company in November 2007, “I was OK with it,” L.V. Hall said. “I didn’t realize that once that’s done, these attorneys can get in there and just do away with it.”

Documents obtained by the Center for Public Integrity under the Freedom of Information Act show how Toyo’s lawyer, Mark Dreux of Arent Fox in Washington, D.C., fought the state of Kentucky from the beginning. Dreux declined to comment on the case.

In March 2008, the state offered to reduce the penalty from $105,500 to $74,000. Dreux refused. In June 2008, the state proposed a further reduction, to $15,000, for three violations. Dreux said no. In November 2008, Dreux got what he wanted: No violations and no fine.

It was Hayes who first learned, in July 2010, that all the violations had been deleted. He alerted Harville.

“I was devastated,” she said. “It takes you back all over again, like Tina was killed for the second time.”

She called L.V. Hall, who reacted similarly. “I was just shaking I was so upset,” he said. He called the Department of Workplace Standards and finally reached “the lady attorney who was over the case. I basically told her, ‘I cannot believe y’all dropped every one of those citations.’ She said, ‘Well, Mr. Hall, I am an attorney and there was not enough evidence.’”

Hayes knew what to do. He filed a CASPA — Complaint About State Program Administration — with OSHA’s Atlanta regional office, calling Kentucky’s dismissal of the citations a “travesty of justice.”

After an investigation, Regional Administrator Cindy Coe, in essence, agreed, writing in June of last year that “the violations were well documented and legally sufficient and there was no definitive evidence in the file that indicated that they could not be supported.” Deleting all the citations, Coe wrote, erases an employer’s safety history and deprives regulators of critical information should subsequent enforcement actions commence.

“It also signals to compliance staff that their efforts are for no good end, if the point is to drop everything at the threat of going to court,” the administrator wrote. “It further signals to employees in the workplace that there is no entity on their side.”

In his response to Coe, the commissioner of the Kentucky Labor Cabinet, Michael Dixon, wrote that the state “does not retreat from litigation” but didn’t believe it could defend the case before the Kentucky Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission, an appeal body.

In May, a state inspector returned to the Toyo plant in Franklin to see if the company had done all the things it said it would do after Tina Hall’s death — making sure supervisors were trained in the correct way to clean fixtures, for example. It hadn’t.

In a July 5 letter, Susan Draper, then director of the Kentucky Labor Cabinet’s Division of Occupational Safety and Health Compliance, notified Ronald Wyans, president of Toyo Automotive Parts (USA), that the 16 original citations had been reinstated, as had the proposed $105,500 penalty. The Tina Hall case had come full circle.

Sometime in the next few weeks, Amy Harville, L.V. Hall and Hall’s lawyers expect to meet with Dixon and Toyo counsel. They expect to learn whether Toyo intends to accept its punishment or continue fighting.

“When somebody gets killed in one of these workplaces, it shouldn’t be this way,” L.V. Hall said. “I had Ron Hayes on my side and he knew what to do. Most people don’t have Ron. These citations never would have been brought back without him.”

The Center for Public Integrity is a nonprofit, independent investigative news outlet.

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Accidents don't just happen, she was there because people work in this world and people hire people to work for them. The people that hire people need to insure the safety of the work as well as the people doing the work need to be aware of the dangers and make the decision whether or not to put them self in harms way. The problem comes when the dangers are known and people don't do enough to assure that bad things do not happen. Often times the cost of safety over rides the doing something about it. Fines are the States and Federal Governments way of telling people that hire people, that its cheaper in the long run to implement safety measures. If its cheaper to lawyer up then lawyer up it will be. People suffer and safety suffers and business survives.

  • 48 votes
#1 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:26 PM EDT

the commissioner of the Kentucky Labor Cabinet, Michael Dixon, wrote that the state does not retreat from litigation

But maybe a nice big backhander would help things back up a bit.

  • 14 votes
#1.1 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:36 PM EDT

Many "human" Corporations are sociopaths/psychopaths that are above the current law.

Unfortunately, the raison d'etre of Corporations is like a virus.

America = Money.

  • 45 votes
#1.2 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:53 PM EDT

See folks, this is why corporations want to move enforcement to the lowest rung of government they can get.

The guys at the state and local level are so much cheaper and easier to control than the feds.

  • 95 votes
#1.3 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:56 PM EDT

I guess possible injury and death is what the worker must put up with in order to eliminate those goldarn "job killing regulations."

  • 78 votes
#1.4 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:00 PM EDT

For more relaxed standards for Business...

Romney/Ryan 2012!

  • 55 votes
#1.5 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:08 PM EDT

Exactly RealAmericansFirst, especially in red states where they know greed trumps safety, plus it costs less to bribe local and state officials than it does the federal inspectors.

  • 54 votes
#1.6 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:10 PM EDT
Comment author avatargeorge pauljohnExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

wow, good thing they didnt have a union making sure things where safe. I mean if they had the kind of standards that California has, this guy might still be alive. keep voting republican and get what you deserve ,

  • 45 votes
#1.7 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:28 PM EDT

For everyone on this discussion line who rants about "big government in our lives", take heed. OSHA should, but often doesn't, make sure things like this don't happen. But without government oversight the person who finally brought this forward would probably not have even learned of it.

  • 37 votes
#1.8 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:30 PM EDT

This is a fine example of the drift of the US, under the republican Koch lickers, to a form of government that might be called Neo-Fascism.

We have a law. We begin to act against a lawbreaker, which happens to be a corporation. The corporation objects. We stop prosecution; re-define the law or make it go away; de-fund the regulatory/enforcement agency; make speeches condemning interference with the private sector; the corporation offers some politicians jobs at three times their current salaries; the law disappears or becomes a lame duck. Or a dead duck.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

  • 58 votes
#1.9 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:32 PM EDT

And under the GOP's oh-so-euphimistically named "tort reform", none of the injured can sue the corporation, either.

Must be nice to be a "person" who can't go to jail and can't be sued.

  • 46 votes
#1.11 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:36 PM EDT

This is the best example of large corporations and greed and complete lack of respect for life.

  • 41 votes
#1.12 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:40 PM EDT

You are right that accidents don't just happen. What caused the spark?

    #1.13 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:44 PM EDT

    Just curious, why didn't she push back if the chemicals seemed dangerous? The company should be forced to pay puntative fines and the government is at fault, but couldn't she have registered a complaint?

    • 1 vote
    #1.14 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:44 PM EDT

    Why blame the corporation for RED state thinking. "Corporations are people too", at least in Kentucky.

    • 8 votes
    #1.15 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:47 PM EDT

    This is why Big Business recruited illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants don't complain about lack of safety standards, they work at their own risk. Thus, it's cheaper and more profitable to hire people who cannot complain about the kind of labor protections workers have fought for since the industrial age. As a Business will tell you, it's more expensive to hire an American citizen because laws and regulations prevent worker exploitation.

    Of course, now, given the looting of America, all workers are the illegal immigrants now.

    • 20 votes
    #1.16 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:48 PM EDT

    KY the workers, common baby we can do this again, Boss Man sez it's cool!

    • 5 votes
    #1.17 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:49 PM EDT
    Comment author avatarJQ 12261891Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

    Corporations are evil...Rabble Rabble...Profits Kill!!...Rabble Rabble...American greed...STOP Big Toyo...that's a thing now...Rabble Rabble...Factories make profits on the backs of people they pay to make profits on the backs of...Get rid of Factories!!!...Send them to China!...Wait, what?

    • 11 votes
    #1.18 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:49 PM EDT

    In the aftermath of the infamous Triangle Shirtwaist fire [NYC 1911] during which many young women were burned to death or died when they threw themselves out of windows and off of ledges onto the concrete far below -- young men too -- it was found that the fire doors had been nailed shut in order to prevent employees from leaving early.

    One year later the same sweatshop owners were back in business at a new location and the fire doors there had been nailed shut once more. New York State never prosecuted the owners beyond a very small fine exacted under the existing fire regulations.

    In memory of all those young people who died-- then and now -- errant owners and politicians of today should be made examples of. Prison sentences as well as large fines might change things for the better.

    • 41 votes
    #1.19 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:01 PM EDT

    @BodyDouble

    ...it costs less to bribe local and state officials than it does the federal inspectors.

    As you base this reasoning on what exactly? Please do share.

    Federal inspectors and bureaucrats have been shown to be no better. What do you think those billions of dollars spent by lobbyists in DC is buying? Duh

    • 7 votes
    #1.20 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:04 PM EDT

    yep, nothing but blame the right by those rabid dem dogs.

    • 3 votes
    #1.21 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:07 PM EDT

    Backcountry - there's an entire cottage industry of corporate lobbyists working to move regulation back down the government ladder.

    You think they're getting paid to do something for your benefit? Or do their corporate masters see it as an "investment"? Think about it.

    • 20 votes
    #1.22 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:13 PM EDT

    Wonder how much money passed under the table on this one.

    • 16 votes
    #1.23 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:14 PM EDT
    Comment author avatarMr. BinkieRestored

    I bet she was smoking!

    • 1 vote
    #1.24 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:21 PM EDT

    "Right to work" states should be renamed "right to die at work". For the GOP, corporations are people but people working for these corporations are not really peoples, just cogs in the machine and as such disposable. Now, fertilized eggs, these are real people!

    • 29 votes
    #1.25 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:29 PM EDT

    OSHA is like a Pit-bull without teeth who would be scared of a toothless dog?

    • 3 votes
    #1.26 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:32 PM EDT

    Then let's buy them some dentures!

    • 13 votes
    #1.27 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:33 PM EDT

    The case was another black eye for state-run workplace health and safety programs nationwide. In all, 26 states administer their own programs under federal supervision. Several have been criticized in recent years for capitulating to lawyered-up employers, performing subpar inspections and shutting out accident victims’ families.

    JQ... Let's go through a rewind of the past 70 years, and we'll need to talk about Tariffs. For many years, tariffs were used to collect Federal revenue and were designed to protect start-up industries, giving them a chance to become competitive.

    This is important to remember: Tariffs were a source of income for our Federal Government (at times accounting for most of our Federal Government's budget - Prior to the 16th Amendment granting the Federal Government rights to levy Income Taxes on individual citizens [1913]). Tariffs were also designed to keep us safe from foreign imports, protect our businesses from foreign competition, and to create an economic loop within our own economy - We make the products, we buy the products we make, we use the products we make, in order to buy the products we use, we must work at the places that make the products we want to buy, etc... A self perpetuating economy.

    70 Years ago. The United States was THE producer of much of the world's goods. Being the benevolent victor following World War II, we instituted the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade in 1947 that effectively diminished tariffs and liberalized trade between all capitalist countries.

    50 Years ago - Most products bought, outside of the United States, were junk. It use to be a running gag that if you bought something with a "Made in Japan" stamped on it, you were guaranteed to have bought a cheap piece of junk. The free trade and greatly reduced tariffs aren't bothering most of our citizens yet. America continues to manufacture the best products in the world.

    40 Years ago - American consumers start to accept Japanese made items, Toyota, Datsun, Honda, & Kawasaki become household names in America. American's are increasingly buying foreign products. Working to make money on American soil, only to purchase products from foreign manufacturers that sends American dollars out of the country.

    In the 1980's and 1990's, more tariff restrictions are reduced. Globalization starts to rear it's head. The USA and Canada sign the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement in 1987. In 1994, the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is passed, reducing additional barriers. In 2000, The USA agree with the WTO to allow China to join earning "Most Favored Nation" status and effectively reducing their tariffs to practically nothing.

    All of these changes were promoted as a promise to the American people of lower prices for consumers. What it actually meant in the long run (and what we're seeing now) is we've become a nation where all our products are imports, all our money is spent purchasing imports from other countries, and all our companies are attempting to compete with other country companies that have lower minimum wages (in some cases $1.00 a day will buy a textile worker), and much more lax safety measures in place.

    There has been opposition to liberalized trade tariffs and rules, but these usually came from American Labor Unions who correctly argued that this new system would mean lower wages and fewer jobs for American workers.

    However... Global American companies like the way things are. Profits are up, outsourcing is key, and its slowly making the American Worker more "Pliant" and "Willing" to accept greater risks, less safety, and lower wages for much more work in order to compete as the CEO's enjoy huge profits, golden parachutes, and higher wages than any other rank of executives before them.

    Welcome to the Corporate States of America. Where you're just a number, if you get hurt, that's okay... We have plenty of lawyers to exhaust your appeals for humanity, and where you really should just be lucky you have a job. At least for today.

    Expect things to get worse (unless you're a CEO or top executive, then... Expect things to get better... A lot better).

    • 27 votes
    #1.28 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:34 PM EDT

    Ky sucks almost as much as McTurtle...

    • 4 votes
    #1.29 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:34 PM EDT

    It's all about money, the real issue is that the company that disregards safety because it costs money has admitted the company has either a money problem or a management problem or both in any case the corporation needs to get a handle on it before someone decides to put some teeth in the OSHA dog.

    • 6 votes
    #1.30 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:38 PM EDT

    Welcome to the new age of manufacturing! Actually we are heading back to the pre-union days.... no regard for employee safety, less wages, less benefits (if any), mandatory overtime, etc. just so the corporations can pay millions to their executives and CEOs in salaries and bonuses. Since there are so many unemployed, it is easy to replace workers who are injured, disabled and/or killed. Wonderful isn't it?

    • 19 votes
    #1.31 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:38 PM EDT
    Comment author avatarJ R BrowensteinExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

    This is a fine example of the drift of the US, under the republican Koch lickers, to a form of government that might be called Neo-Fascism.

    We have a law. We begin to act against a lawbreaker, which happens to be a corporation. The corporation objects. We stop prosecution; re-define the law or make it go away; de-fund the regulatory/enforcement agency; make speeches condemning interference with the private sector; the corporation offers some politicians jobs at three times their current salaries; the law disappears or becomes a lame duck. Or a dead duck.

    "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

    I'm certain that you don't understand this but I'll put this out there for you just the same:

    ObamaCare is the largest "fascist" movement of our government in its history. For the first time, every single American is compelled to buy a product brought to the market by private, for-profit industry "for the good of the country".

    The bolstering of private industry/companies by the government under the guise of "it's for the good of the country" is one of the defining qualities of fascism in government.

    Before you start whining about the fascist GOP, you should look at your fascist ObamaChrist first...he's the greatest "fascist" President in the history of the United States.

    • 4 votes
    #1.32 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:39 PM EDT

    JR - we're up for single payer anytime. Just write your GOP boys in the House and we're on our way out of that "fascist" (GOP-created) mandatory insurance scheme.

    • 10 votes
    #1.33 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:42 PM EDT
    Comment author avatarBob-434277Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

    File a freakin civil action in court and then shut the f up.

    • 3 votes
    #1.34 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:46 PM EDT

    Ah... J. R. Browenstein...

    You state the problem, but you misinterpret the cause of the problem. Let's look at your statement:

    For the first time, every single American is compelled to buy a product brought to the market by private, for-profit industry "for the good of the country".

    This has been an ongoing state-by-state issue with the Automobile Insurance Industry. In California, it went like this: "Please pass this new law. It'll ensure that all people have auto insurance, and will cause your auto insurance rates to decrease. It's a good thing." Once the new auto-insurance-bill has passed, suddenly the state is now involved with a private corporation in compelling it's citizens to purchase auto insurance or they stand a chance of not having their driver's license renewed or having their car impounded if they're pulled over without insurance. People caught driving without insurance also have to pay MORE for their insurance when they finally are compelled to buy insurance AND people who have little history with insurance must pay more for insurance.

    In the end, costs of Auto Insurance have continued to rise, and their is no benefit for the consumer. All the benefits are realized by the Auto Insurance industry.

    It's not an issue with Republicans, it's not an issue with Democrats. Both parties ARE EQUALLY bought and used by the Auto Insurance industry.

    Same with the HealthCare initiative. This is the bill we were going to get regardless of whether a Republican or Democrat authored the bill. In the end, this bill was edited and tempered by an army of Health Insurance lobbyists and lawyers who made damn sure that the Health Insurance industry would continue to not only profit, but reap new levels of profit under any new governmental regulation.

    Period. Welcome to the Corporate States of America.

    • 13 votes
    #1.35 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:48 PM EDT

    @Anjisan1963

    Welcome to the Corporate States of America. Where you're just a number, if you get hurt, that's okay... We have plenty of lawyers to exhaust your appeals for humanity, and where you really should just be lucky you have a job. At least for today.

    Best quote I've read in this site ever. It also makes me wish I've had studied law. :)

    • 10 votes
    #1.36 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:51 PM EDT

    ObamaCare is the largest "fascist" movement of our government in its history. For the first time, every single American is compelled to buy a product brought to the market by private, for-profit industry "for the good of the country".

    Insuring all Americans isn't fascism, it's humanity. If you want to call this plutocracy a Republic, go ahead. It doesn't make it so. Our corporations and the military industrial complex have taken over the government.

    Washington believed in a strong central government, limiting states rights. In this case, I believe that the state of KY sucks.

    • 11 votes
    #1.37 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:54 PM EDT

    Deregulation will fix this crap!

    • 2 votes
    #1.38 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:54 PM EDT

    The cost for the Washington lawyer probably exceeded the fine.

      #1.39 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:03 PM EDT

      Right to work State.

      • 3 votes
      #1.40 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:04 PM EDT

      This has been an ongoing state-by-state issue with the Automobile Insurance Industry

      By comparing ObamaCare and auto insurance in your very first sentence, you made it easy to ignore the entirety of your post. They are not comparable. It's an apples to oranges argument and you demonstrate your complete ignorance of the issues by even bringing it up.

      Auto insurance is required if you own an auto and want to drive it legally on public roads. ObamaCare requires you to buy health insurance to be an American citizen in good standing. You don't have to buy auto insurance if you don't have a car or if you have a car but don't operate it on public roads (such as farm vehicles). If you don't understand that they are COMPLETELY different issues by now, I'm certain I'm not going to be able to give you that epiphany moment.

      • 5 votes
      #1.41 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:10 PM EDT

      As a retired construction union carpenter I have worked many jobs where, truly, safety was first, and it was a real pleasure to work for these companies. One Company, Wright, Shouhart, and Harbor, actually paid a safety bonus for no lost time accidents. Every month or two, a crew with no lost time would get $300 or $400 to split. I have also worked on jobs where safety was third or forth. When OSHA would come on the job the foremen would start to hide all the defective stuff or put up signs saying "unsafe don't use", right after the inspectors would leave the job site, all the illegal stuff was up and running. This is why some in corporate America hate regulations and national safety standards. It cost money, greed is a powerful personal and corporate flaw!! This is also why they hate unions and union workers, we have been trained to work safely and know the regulations. Why do you think there has been no comprehensive solution to the immigration problem. The Dems wants them for their votes and the repubs want unskilled workers for these dangerous and unsafe jobs. There are several really big issues riding on this election, one is OSHA and it's continued presence on constructions sites, if the rebubs win big, OSHA's days will be numbered.

      • 12 votes
      #1.42 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:18 PM EDT

      Insuring all Americans isn't fascism, it's humanity. If you want to call this plutocracy a Republic, go ahead. It doesn't make it so. Our corporations and the military industrial complex have taken over the government.

      See...you don't get it. We, as a society, are not "insuring all Americans". We are compelling all Americans to buy health insurance. There is a HUGE difference.

      Given the fact that Obama publicly stated after his election that he, as President, was the head of the Democratic Party and that the Democratic Party which held a supermajority in Congress when ObamaCare was created, then I most certainly can argue that he enacted law which required every American to purchase products from private industry/corporations "for the good of the country" in a fascist, dictatorial fashion. The fact that the Democratic Party were mere lapdogs and rubberstamped his every whim while excluding the participation of the minority party would absolutely qualify Obama as a "dictator" in more than hyperbole regarding the implementation of ObamaCare.

      Read Mussolini's words...he advocated a system of corporatism known as "state capitalism"...which is when the government requires the citizenry to support corporations deemed "good for the country" and "in the country's best interests". This is the absolute foundation of Obama and the Democrats' argument for ObamaCare...that it's in our country's best interests to make everyone buy health insurance.

      • 3 votes
      #1.43 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:20 PM EDT

      Gimme a break...

      Anyone here want to say how one insurance is completely different from another insurance. Insurance is insurance. Home insurance, auto insurance, health insurance, flood insurance....?

      You're paying money to a corporate entity on the off-chance that you'll have bad luck and your house will burn down, your car will get wrecked, or you'll get a bad case of cancer.

      COMPLETELY different issues, huh?

      No. They're not. You're not delivering an epiphany moment, because you're looking at a Red apple, and a green apple and saying that I'm trying to compare apples to oranges, when in reality, I'm comparing apples to apples.

      This is all irrelevant to the core of my statement which is the Corporations behind the provisions added to the laws which continues to ensure they remain profitable despite which political party was pushing for reform? My primary thesis was this: If a healthcare reform bill could make it through our broken political process, it would be so watered down by corporate interests and lobbyists that it ceases to be a Republican reform or a Democratic reform. It simply is a reform and whichever party has it's name attached to the bill must take the heat for it...

      That's the new role for our political representatives... To take the heat for whatever piece of crap bill they pass. This time it is the Democrats who'll take the heat. Next time it'll be the Republican party's turn.

      Republicans and Democrats exist only to fight amongst themselves, divert our attention, and to take the blame for the direction our country is taking in order to allow our Corporate Citizens to run the country the way they see fit.

      That's it. Go ahead and hate Obama. If McCain had won in 2008, we'd be demonizing him. Whoever wins the election in 2012? We'll be hanging him in effigy in 2016. Whoever has control of the Senate - They're ineffectual. Whoever is in charge of the Congress - Jerks! That's the nature of American Politics right now.

      Romney would probably be a good President for the direction we're going in. He can leverage all the American assets, get a larger line of credit, engage in a little shuffling, sell the whole lot off, and start again with a new country. Obama would be a good President to reelect. He'd sit there saying how we need to do this, that, and the other thing, and do none of those things while telling us he remains committed to enacting those changes he said he'd be doing while doing nothing.

      American Politics..:

      Joshua: Greetings, Professor Falken.
      Stephen Falken: Hello, Joshua.
      Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

      • 5 votes
      #1.44 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:26 PM EDT

      Anjisan (post 1.28)...

      While you have presented historical facts you have oversimplified the connecting of the dots in your conclusions, for example...

      Smoot-halwey tariffs did us no economic favors in the 30's. I submit that its effect is still weighing negatively when economists and politicians do any planning today.

      Effectiveness of tariffs are moot if the ratio of imports and exports is way out of balance. You know, those enjoying a favorable balance of trade have less to lose than who they import from.

      Multinationals will go where the markets are and with the lowest cost supply/demand lines. Based on population alone, china and india are the up and comers with brazil and russia also in the mix. Many posters may want to think that business should always be socially conscious first and profitable last, but isn't that really the function of government? With appropriate balance of course between the two.

      I have no doubt that many in upper management are paid/compensated for far more than they are worth. However, like the star athlete or those in silicon valley with skill sets in demand they simply rely on the scarcity of talent to generate the large pay packages they get. At least in the past year many upper managers have gone to the unemployment lines because they couldn't perform.

      You did make an interesting point when you brought up what consumers wanted, low cost goods. Pretty hard for any business to compete when someone offers an equivalent product at a lower price point, especially if they don't have a strong branded product like Apple and a few others. Historically governments have created many subsidies to keep consumer prices low. Should we let the subsidies end with only the market determining costs?

      Like it or not, we have a global economy and the days of past American market dominance is in decline and is based more on global population shifts than anything else. Not even sure if a serious global recession would change this. Other than a war or an epidemic it will be the population distribution determining growth here or abroad.

        #1.45 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:18 PM EDT

        george pauljohn

        wow, good thing they didnt have a union making sure things where safe. I mean if they had the kind of standards that California has, this guy might still be alive. keep voting republican and get what you deserve

        i work in a union shop. if we have a double numbers for days without lost time its not very often. i think we hit 18 days once, lol. thats a good run imo. safety falls on one person... YOU! no union... no company lawyer.... no federal government.... YOU!

        MSNBC, as well as anyone else thus far has failed to mention, the employee had rights union or not. here is how the federal/state government has your a$$, in ways the union doesnt want you to know.

        had she decided this was an unsafe enviroment (and obviously inspectors did as well) she could tell her employer due to those conditions, fix the problem, or i refuse to do that portion of the job that puts my welfare at risk. the employer can then make a choice, fix it, put her in another dept, other options to yes include, fire her.

        say for instance the company fixed the problem, because OTHER employess effected stood by her. or... say they make her job harder, or fired her. she then could have taken legal action, and the state/fed gov would listen to her case, before a labor board. she automatically qualifies for unemployment after review. in WI it takes no more than 3 weeks, and you can still fight it no need for a lawyer. once that gets solved, you contact a labor lawyer, or put in a formal request for lost wages do to unsafe working conditions. this is where it gets to be a long process pending the nature. in this case, as any she would have to prove the unsafe enviroment at a risk level to deem taking her stance. by this time, in her case the exsplosion would have taken place, and pending the original cause (static electricity) some one else would have been inside, backing her claim, and giving those who do the same from that point on a stronger leg to stand on.

        then into the play comes.... union, lol, a joke! union is a brotherhood, of hard workers who have eachothers back. WHY would hard workers, who work together, not make a a stance the same as any person in the same dept. when it comes to safety, much less the entire company workforce? the same reason we the people as a nation, cant agree on one simple thing..... other than you need someone to do it for you. be it the person needing it, giving it, or balking at it. when unions started out, there was a crook there with his hand held out to take your money, to make a stance for you.

        people want change... but you exspect some one to make it for you. does anyone think this plays a role in who we elect? if you want change bad enough, make your fight, and if worthy enough, others will join. im not saying go burn the streets, because we dont need to do that to be heard. unlike we have seen in CA, and else where. like the occupy movement other will join... just to bad you were so misled as to who you needed to fight against. the media even put it in your nose, but you missed it. its WHO makes out from wall st you needed to be the front stoop of, that help control the waste of our $. they all mingle in this huge white house on penn. ave, in a little kingdom of its own called DC. look at where your all time long runners in the capital, and every president you could possibly remember. it was in the news of all times, at the peaak of the occupy movement, and it went ZOOOooooommmm.... right over the people it should have meant most to heads.

        how fast did the DC occupy get shut down? wasnt it the same day it started?

          #1.46 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:57 PM EDT

          Look up the word backward. The definition is KENTUCKY. I know, I've lived and worked there. Still have kin there..

          Hey J. R. (post 1.43)

          Make up four freakin mind. Is Obama a Commie or a Fascist? They are from opposite ends of the political spectrum. No matter how badly you cons want it he can't be both. Unfortunately YOU don't have a clue: he's neither. The more yopu cons post the more I believe the studies I've read saying uyou are of lower intelect and LOVE being a herd animal. So sorry.

          • 5 votes
          #1.47 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:19 PM EDT

          The worst part of this is, no one in Kentucky will be the least bit bothered by this. The governor, legislators, the Chamber of Commerce, none of them will see the slightest problem.

          • 3 votes
          #1.48 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:21 PM EDT

          Mossy-

          You must not have to work much for a living. Most of the people would not work in a place like that if they had a choice in the first place. Now she is working there and, with the crappy economy, doesn't want to lose the job. If she says she will not do that job any more because it's unsafe, she's gone. Do you think the employer will let people tell them what job is safe and which job is not, like they need a safety revolt. They fire one or two people that complain, problem solved. With this shi#y economy who wants to be first to lose their job. I worked on an office remodel once, they were removing asbestos from the job site without any safety precautions, I took a piece of the materiel, sent it to OSHA, they said it was asbestos and came to the job site the next day to make sure it was disposed of in the safe way. The people around the office had no idea they were working near a project where asbestos was in the air. When all you care about is making money safety issues are way on the back burner.

          • 4 votes
          #1.49 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:38 PM EDT

          Corporations have their hands deep into the pockets of officials and Congress. Plus, Corporations know that the people don''t have the money to compete against them in Court. They want to get away with as much as they can with the least amount of money spent. They are the "Puppeteers of Congress", etc. They are willing to give Congress/lobbyists/officials the money before ever making a fair settlement to the injured working class people. In another words, you are their "Corporate Slaves".

          • 2 votes
          #1.50 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:59 AM EDT

          My guess is that the Turtle and Rand Paul intervened to make the original sanctions go away, but in an election year, they would like to keep this case as quiet as possible. Let's see what happens next.

          • 1 vote
          #1.51 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:45 AM EDT

          Hey now - be fair. Kentucky is a pro-business state. And those corporations are people too - their feelings were hurt by the penalties and fines. Even worse, the corporation had to deal with that horrible smell of burnt flesh - and it offended their sensibilties.

          If you people only cared for these poor downtrodden corporations, you would understand that the corporations are suffering. It costs them money to train the replacements of people who die, and losing that training money is very painful for them - they probably deserve another tax break for their pain. And when President Romney removes these horrible regulations that constrain the corporations - it will free up the corporations to lower their safety standards even more and enable them to hire more (to replace those who will be injured & killed). After all - corporations have more money than the people in Kentucky, and are therefore more important - right?

          • 4 votes
          #1.52 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:21 AM EDT

          Good Grief....Scht happenes. One terrible tragedy and every corporation in the world is at fault? Leave it to the Libs to leave NO disaster left behind to forward any agenda. As if Toyo just couldn't WAIT to burn somebody up - ludicrous. How in the world is 120K gonna make this situation any better??!!

            #1.53 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:20 PM EDT

            @justoneguy, and every other person that doesn't get it.

            I'll get right to the point, because it's not worth explaining to you.

            You won't understand until something happens to your wife, husband, or child. And while I wouldn't wish anything bad happen to your relatives, I hope that you suffer the same fate. Unfortunately, that would leave said relatives without an income (if you even work) and with many bills to pay.

            See, you're right about one thing. The school of hard knocks is sometimes the only way you'll learn.

            I think there is a serious mental deficiency people like you have that someday science will find the cure for.

              #1.54 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:13 PM EDT

              enuf-uuu

              @justoneguy..... I hope that you suffer the same fate.

              You are truely the definition of a 'hater'....pathetic

                #1.55 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:59 PM EDT

                Hey J. R. (post 1.43)

                Make up four freakin mind. Is Obama a Commie or a Fascist? They are from opposite ends of the political spectrum. No matter how badly you cons want it he can't be both. Unfortunately YOU don't have a clue: he's neither. The more yopu cons post the more I believe the studies I've read saying uyou are of lower intelect and LOVE being a herd animal. So sorry.

                Show me where I said that Obama was a communist. The rest of your post is tripe.

                • 1 vote
                #1.56 - Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:22 AM EDT

                Anjisan1963

                Gimme a break...

                Anyone here want to say how one insurance is completely different from another insurance. Insurance is insurance. Home insurance, auto insurance, health insurance, flood insurance....?

                I can explain how one is different from the rest:

                ObamaCare requires you to buy health insurance merely to exist as an American citizen in good standing...the rest are insurance policies you take out voluntarily to protect your assets. You don't HAVE to buy flood insurance if you don't live in an area prone to flooding....you don't HAVE to buy home insurance if you don't own a home and you don't HAVE to buy auto insurance if you don't own an auto.

                I didn't expect you to have an epiphany so I'm not disappointed in the fact that you still just don't get it.

                • 1 vote
                #1.57 - Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:27 AM EDT

                @justoneguy

                Not so much a hater as a 'despiser'. And I despise people that make comments like yours.

                Like I said, not worth explaining.

                  #1.58 - Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:51 PM EDT

                  As soon as you don't have a body, you can stop being mandated to have health insurance. The reason that auto insurance is mandatory is because uninsured drivers that get into accidents burden the taxpayers. When the uninsured need medical care the cost of that care will also burden taxpayers.

                    #1.59 - Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:29 AM EDT

                    JimD - Sounds just like your retarded Obama on Illegal immigration.

                      #1.60 - Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:32 PM EDT

                      Insurance companies offer uninsured motorist insurance that can be purchased by any person. That reason alone makes the Law for freedom of travel with out intrusion from the government as long as you have insurance while driving a vehicle UN-constitutional and a direct violation of my citizenship. Medical care that is paid for by all equally is far different. If you don't have money to pay your share there is help, like the way it was suppose to work with our churches helping needy people, the member donated to the church to achieve the same out come. But church members are depleting and that system can no longer support the needy. So rather separation of church and state for this type of question, the church is simply left behind and the state has taken the reins. Lawyers are over rated, because our judges allow them to control the court room based on legal mumble jumble rather then common sense in which the sole reason we have judges. The constitution protects individuals, judges protect the constitution. Business are not protected by the constitution, because despite what you may have heard corporations and business are not people. Business can and should be the ones to help the needy, its part of doing business in this country. People should not be told to help the needy or be forced to pay for health care. Business also needs to be held accountable to create a safe work place. As long as Judges allow Lawyers to use the constitution to defend a business, unsafe work conditions will forever be. I'm told its a privilege to drive, I say its just apart of my freedoms, but I believe its a privilege to do business in the United States. I can't loose my freedom to travel but business can loose the privilege to do business. The government shouldn't be able to say how I live and what I pay for, but government certainly can tell business how to do business and what the cost are going to be. You say if you don't like it go live somewhere else or in the case of business go do business somewhere else. And they have been.. good rid-ens

                        #1.61 - Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:38 AM EDT
                        Reply

                        There are no words for this kind of situation. Our way of life is under attack, but it is apathy that will make us lose. It is great that Mr. Hayes was there for all concerned, but like L.V. Hall said "if you do not have an advocate" you DO NOT GET JUSTICE. The deck is stacked against us and if we allow it Unions, Human Rights, Employment Rights will further diminish or deteriorate.

                        Under G. Bush many employment laws for the protection of workers were decimated. Whistle-blower laws, Title VII & Freedom of Information Act watered down and then there are the Courts themselves (recently had to settle because the Court would have thrown out under Summary Judgement irregardless of the facts) the case I had successfully fought (other side losing 3 Motions to Dismiss) mattered not on merit or law just that some Judge could dismiss it so SETTLE! The Worker's Comp. element of my case was interesting too, I worked for a company who profited off my specialized talent, injured me and then fired me without medical attention:

                        Reason "we don't have Worker's Comp." never mind most States have provision for treatment w/out $ assessment against employer.

                        Litigation isn't something people enter into (esp. Worker's Comp. issues) lightly, but you ultimately find that the Law is stacked against you for $$ reasons and the MOST IRRITATING of all reasons - the representatives of the people HAVE ABANDONED THE PEOPLE and the organizations there for the protection of the people DO NOT WORK FOR THE PEOPLE ANYMORE & employers' have lawyers and deep pockets - this is our future people unless we Fight Back!

                        The EEOC works with the Companies that BETRAY the people & circumvent the Laws; they work in conjunction with BIG BUSINESS an have working lectures on how to circumvent the LAW for the very people who they are suppose to defend against, yet the people are whiny and BLAH,BLAH.BLAH.

                        I wish all concerned the best of luck and keep up the good work - FIGHT ON!!!!

                        • 34 votes
                        Reply#2 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:42 PM EDT

                        Welcome to the world of the 1%ers !!!!!

                        Yes sir. Profit at any and all cost. It's cheaper and easier to pay off government officials than do the right thing and obey the law. If they do not like the law than they pay off government to change that law or the overseers of that law to look the other way. Funny how everyone says China has slave labor . This is a good case to show we are headed that way. Use and abuse your employees any way you can. Yes sir our government is really looking out for us in the work place. I guess OSHA and the EPA were just a pipe dream of mine.

                        • 23 votes
                        #2.1 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:21 PM EDT

                        V-1797921 how did they get away without workers comp? If you have more than 3 people it is a requirement?

                        • 3 votes
                        #2.2 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:37 PM EDT

                        Soon this country become plutocracy run by the Elite which own corporate America, international corporations and Governmemt. We the worker worry about be layoff and work for peanuts. Welcome back to 19th century

                        • 14 votes
                        #2.3 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:55 PM EDT

                        Well, if you look on the bright side, companies no longer hire gun thugs to shoot down striking workers. OTH, because we are living in the Age of the Rise of the Stupid, we are removing the right/ability of workers to strike.

                        Here's how it goes: Jeez, the republickers are letting people die on the job. Maybe it's time to vote democratic.

                        Republican ad: Obama is a Kenyan muslim communist, the Democrats will let 1000 illegal aliens live in your back yard, take away all your guns, close your church, and make you go to a mosque!!!

                        Jeez, better stick with the republickers.

                        • 14 votes
                        #2.4 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:57 PM EDT

                        One needs to look at the number of people actually fighting for workers rights in this country. The thousands of "new" workers entering the workforce daily and the dwindling number of state and national workers assigned to protect these people aregetting smaller every day. Without FUNDING no one can do their job. The republicrap legislators have continually taken funds from every agency needed to protect our workers while allowing "lawyers" AND THE COURTS TO LITIGATE MORALITY. China's vast population is a powder keg, without freedom they cannot survive, we HAVE freedom AND WE WILL NOT SURVIVE----GREED CANNOT BE TAKEN WITH YOU, money cannot be taken with you, when you die you either are done, or you have everlasting "life in peace" or everlasting misery. I used to think heaven would be so full, but now I know HELL WILL BE BRIMMING OVER, WITH FALSE PROPHETS AND THOSE THAT BELIEVED THEM. The "Christian right" is SOOOO WRONG, and they will populate HELL to capacity.

                        • 6 votes
                        #2.5 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:43 PM EDT

                        This reminds me of what happened to another corporation, Toyota Motor Corporation, when they had the unintended acceleration scandal. Lie, stonewall, and work behind the scenes, to ge out from under responsibility! I will never buy from either!

                        • 3 votes
                        #2.6 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:55 PM EDT

                        Kent McMillen

                        This reminds me of what happened to another corporation, Toyota Motor Corporation, when they had the unintended acceleration scandal. Lie, stonewall, and work behind the scenes, to ge out from under responsibility! I will never buy from either!

                        i guess you never followed up on that story. there was no problem with the pedals or any electronics. IT WAS DRIVER STUPIDITY! the only thing they could pin on toyota is that the design of the pedals was no adequate enough for aftermarket mats, which was the main cause of all the crashes. that and people who cant drive. but hey go ahead and believe whatever, makes no difference anyhow.

                        • 1 vote
                        #2.7 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:12 PM EDT

                        I followed up on the case with NHTSA and found that Toyota hired the government experts away during the investigation, so of course they found nothing.

                        • 4 votes
                        #2.8 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:19 PM EDT

                        Fred, it's just getting too expensive to manufacture these parts. OSHA is killing us with regulations. Every chemical has to be segregated, in spark-free environments. Working here in America is hell. And then there's the Unions wanting days off, overtime, health benefits. But every month, my wife still runs up the American Express, if you know what I mean.....

                        Ah, hellfire, Jim, let's just move the whole plant to Kentucky, we can get third world rates and regulations there.......

                        • 3 votes
                        #2.9 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:37 PM EDT

                        and we need less regulations why again? This is disgusting and the way injured workers are treated is disgusting, anyone that has never been injured better hope it never happens to them or a family member. The laws are not with you they are with the comp boards and employers.

                        • 4 votes
                        #2.10 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:43 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        Comment author avatarbubba-1946427Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                        Wantnot, accident do just happen that is why they are accidents. This was no accident it was preventable with the right safety precaution put in place this should not have happened. If I get up in the morning and trip over my own two feet that is an accident if I trip over a shoe I left in the middle of the floor it was no accident, I should have put the shoe out of the way. There were and are rule for storing these chemicals and containers safely.

                        • 17 votes
                        Reply#3 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:48 PM EDT

                        ...I'm with you on this one, @bubba. I got a weird feeling while reading the story that, just maybe, it was not really Toyo's fault.

                          #3.1 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:56 PM EDT

                          Yes bubba, there are rules. But when they are not enforced that is the companies fault. It seems this case the woman who died did everything she was instructed to do and died as a result. This is INDEED the companies fault. I retired from a profession where we had many safety rules and when they were broken the employee was disciplined. If they broke enough safety rules they were terminated for cause, so don't sit there and infer it was the workers fault.

                          • 14 votes
                          #3.2 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:34 PM EDT

                          If it was static electricity that caused the fire shouldn't the 55 gal. drums had some sort of grounding? The racks that held the drums should of been grounded so no static sparks could of happened.

                          Mr. Ron Hayes you sir are an honorable man the world could use more people like you.

                          • 7 votes
                          #3.3 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:44 PM EDT

                          Remember all the mine accidents a short time ago and it was discovered that the owners had lax safety precautions, people died and apparently so did the fines, crinminal charges and the story.

                          • 6 votes
                          #3.4 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:55 PM EDT

                          they have no idea what caused the fire, they are assuming static discharge but i highly doubt that or this is not the only fire that has happened there if the safety was poor.

                          if you work around things that you think could be dangerous to your life and you do not speak up about perceived dangers, then you are just as responsible as the employer for not protecting yourself. how long did employees stare at the safety violations and not do a damn thing about it? being ignorant of your surrounding is not a valid excuse and neither is being lazy about safety.

                          • 2 votes
                          #3.5 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:18 PM EDT

                          Attention lower class workers, even middle class folks. The government regardless of being Democratic or Republican, doesn't give a crap about you, your family, your health or your well-being. We need a government for the people again. The corporations, the greedy rich are out to get us, not help us or the country. They suck the life out of the many to feed the pockets of a few.

                            #3.6 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:52 PM EDT

                            if you work around things that you think could be dangerous to your life and you do not speak up about perceived dangers, then you are just as responsible as the employer for not protecting yourself. how long did employees stare at the safety violations and not do a damn thing about it? being ignorant of your surrounding is not a valid excuse and neither is being lazy about safety.

                            Of course they would have all shortly been unemployed. After all Toyo could have replaced them all in about three days in today's job market.

                              #3.7 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:00 AM EDT
                              Reply

                              Let's make this political - lower taxes, less regulation, because the job creators and the free market are looking out for us. Or even if they aren't really looking out for us, it would be worse for us to try to "shackle them" with regulations. When you create an environment that regulatory government is bad - instead of regulatory government is necessary and we need to improve it - this is what you get.

                              • 21 votes
                              Reply#4 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:51 PM EDT

                              Kentucky is a Libertarian State right? Workplace regulations have no place in such a Capitalist paradise.

                              • 14 votes
                              Reply#5 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:54 PM EDT

                              4 words -

                              God Knows
                              Boycott Toyota

                              • 2 votes
                              Reply#6 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:03 PM EDT

                              It is not Toyota... they make cars. It is Toyo... they make tires.

                              • 8 votes
                              #6.1 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:09 PM EDT

                              But I'm sure that the deceased is pleased to know that Toyo is a person now and can donate unlimited funds to the Republicans so they can gut OSHA and keep KY "lubed" for business as usual.

                              • 15 votes
                              #6.2 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:20 PM EDT

                              If Toyo is a person then they need to invoke capital punishment for premeditated murder!

                              • 4 votes
                              #6.3 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:43 PM EDT

                              wow that is stupid. you dont even understand the ruling but you sure repeat the lies. corporation are made up of people who share the same goals as one. a corporation is not defined as a single person nor does it gain 'person-hood.' the ruling allowed corporations to use the first amendment to contribute funds to political contenders as it should have been. the first amendment does not stop just because someone is running for office and giving people money is protected under the first amendment. campaign monetary restrictions of american citizens and companies to political contenders is unconstitutional.

                              • 1 vote
                              #6.4 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:26 PM EDT

                              Safety is not a political thing, it's a money thing. Safety programs protects both the company and the employees. Any company that has the idea that safety is not for them, have a few accidents that damage or destroy factory's and watch insurance rates go up, and the cost of a few law suits then watch the profits go down . Yes, safety programs cost money but so does the cost of not having one.

                              • 2 votes
                              #6.5 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:51 PM EDT
                              Reply

                              Kentucky - so what's the big deal if you want to live in a Conservative Free Market - I hate Government state - don't expect the government to help you out.

                              I suppose the state would allow God Fearin' Second Amendment Rights to prevail if the family wanted to go that route?

                              Or is the family just SOL - Government says "Too Bad" and they take away the right of the family to personally take the issue to the company outside of the government system?

                              • 5 votes
                              Reply#7 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:04 PM EDT

                              Toyo should pay 1,000,000 +; their chem storage and transport sound like jokes. Companies taking advantage of a tough economy that they are responsible for making. POWER TO THE PEOPLE Fight employee injustice by becomming a whistleblower. If there is a profit to be made the corporate office will make changes.

                              • 3 votes
                              Reply#8 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:14 PM EDT

                              Back in the days of the Sugar Cane plantation, no effort, or sacrifice as too much, because when Sugar Cane is ready to be harvested it had to pressed for molasses as fast as humanly possible. In fact if had to be milled faster than humanly possible, feeders at the mouth of the press would sometimes get caught in the tangled cane being fed in, but to make sure work was not slowed or stopped, guards were standing by with machetes to hack off an arm or leg in the case worker had an accident.

                              Perhaps this helps add a flavor in the sugar need to make Tea less bitter?

                              The world is made for the employer, not for those who choose to accept payment to do the employers bidding.

                              To those who think this is unfair, you really might vote in an election some time; just don't fall in to the machinery before your endless fight for human dignity succeeds.

                              • 12 votes
                              Reply#9 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:21 PM EDT

                              This story makes the case for not giving waivers or block grants to be handled by the State government. Too many States will quickly water down rules and regulation and/or distribute funding in a discriminatory manner. This is precisely why Medicaid programs cannot be delegated because some States will cheat on the program and siphon of any so-called excess for its own budget. As to States like Kentucky (read Mitch McConnell) and West Virginia (mine deaths are collateral damages), it is clear that in the absence of regulations administered fairly the competitive playing field is in jeopardy. The same rational applies to all safety/environmental matters. It is where the term "all politics are local"is not a good thing. Business "cheek to jowl" with the local pols in the search of the extra dollar is the norm.

                              • 10 votes
                              Reply#10 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:35 PM EDT

                              @ FE You are absolutely right. State pols are a lot easier to reach and cheaper to corrupt than national pols.

                              • 9 votes
                              #10.1 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:44 PM EDT

                              Damn right! The Koch Bros, ALEC, the US Chamber and Rove are buying state legislatures one by one. What the idiots see as a Tea Party movement is in fact a concerted effort to capture the legislative process by the monied interests. Just look at the recent elections in Kansas. It wasn't enough that the GOP already had a super majority. Instead they purged the party of every GOP state legislator that opposed the governor.

                              • 4 votes
                              #10.2 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:44 PM EDT
                              Reply

                              I almost cried reading this.It sickens me to know that I once had Toyo tires on my car.This tragedy should not have happened.It would not have cost this company any money to put workplace safety as number 1.If I were in charge.one accident like this and Toyo would be closed down for good.

                              • 3 votes
                              Reply#11 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:39 PM EDT

                              Hmm, I thought Texas would be our version of China, but maybe it's Kentucky, a right-wing state where dumbos vote in dumbos and people die unnecessarily. Or maybe Missouri, where they took a shot at getting rid of child labor laws and are now in the process of defining "Legitimate rape." Or maybe, if the ignorant, paranoid and bigoted keep voting republickan, it will be the whole country.

                              We live in a country where the people move all over the place, and the older I get the less and less the concept of "states rights" makes any sense. Particularly when I see 10 or 15 states determinedly trying to suppress the vote in November.

                              • 12 votes
                              Reply#12 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:41 PM EDT

                              States rights are un-American. We fought a civil war over states rights and the "states-righters" lost. That war gave us a stronger federal government. Now the "states-righters" are back trying to weaken the federal government. You want to bust the "states-righters" up? Then, vote Democrat - up and down the line - local, state and federal.

                              • 6 votes
                              #12.1 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:42 PM EDT

                              ...hmmm I thought the Govenor Steve Beshear was a dem in his last term.

                              • 2 votes
                              #12.2 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:59 PM EDT
                              Reply

                              Static electricity set off vapors that caused the death of an employee. The corporate attorney wanted the fine and violations dropped...so Kentucky folds? They didn't have a case? Seriously??!

                              Something is seriously wrong with our system when a dumb broad can sit her arse on a slab of black marble in 101 degree heat and sue the Cowboys...meanwhile, this company can snub their noses at the death of an employee...and the State let's them.

                              • 6 votes
                              Reply#13 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:44 PM EDT

                              Do workers have ANY protections in Kentucky? A corporate lawyer threatens appeal and the state agency responsible folds. Very nice. If this doesn't show exactly who's in charge, what will? When does the "Tombstone effect" kick in?

                              My heart goes out to these people.

                              • 10 votes
                              Reply#14 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:45 PM EDT

                              Well if they don't want to pay their fine well then they should get what she got. Burn them!

                              • 6 votes
                              Reply#15 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:48 PM EDT

                              Further reason why we as a nation need to move to national standard concerning many issues that face all Americans like workplace safety, education, transportation, infrastructure, etc. People always talk about the important of state’s rights but not all states are responsible, not all states are equally educated, and not all states have the necessary experience in many industries to provide for their constituencies. Yet, if we pool our collective intelligence as a nation we should be able to establish standards that provide a national view of what education is, how roads, tunnels, and bridges are built and maintained, and how our workers are protected. Shouldn’t all Americans be guaranteed the same protections and rights wherever they live or work?

                              • 5 votes
                              Reply#16 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:56 PM EDT

                              Is "right to work" now "right to die".

                              • 6 votes
                              Reply#17 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:57 PM EDT

                              Kentucky is not a "right-to-work" state.

                              • 2 votes
                              #17.1 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:29 PM EDT
                              Reply

                              Romney...Corporations are people. It seems that workers are something less

                              • 8 votes
                              Reply#18 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:59 PM EDT

                              THANK YOU BARRY ! I hope people wake up before the election.

                                #18.1 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:14 PM EDT
                                Reply

                                Another Republican controlled, Right to Work state. Lower wages, less regulation and few safeguards for workers. This is the conservative nirvana - corporations free to make a profit at any cost with a disposable workforce. My sympathies to this woman's family, first for losing a loved one and then because they were slapped in the face by the government that should have been protecting her.

                                • 8 votes
                                Reply#19 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:00 PM EDT

                                Kentucky is not a "right-to-work" state.

                                • 2 votes
                                #19.1 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:30 PM EDT

                                My mistake , I apologize.

                                  #19.2 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:00 PM EDT

                                  It's OK, I just like to keep the facts straight. No malice intended.

                                  This kind of discussion took place many years ago in the context of forming unions. Too bad they fell out of favor. This was exactly the kind of thing they were created to deal with. We all see how effective the "toothless" OSHA really is. Really getting our tax dollar's worth there, huh? I don't pretend to have all the answers and that frustrates me. It's the twenty-first century. How is it that here, in the USA, this stuff is allowed to happen? I can't imagine the pain and agony that poor woman suffered before mercy took her. How many more? What's the body count have to be to get some action on BASIC workplace safety? I'm not talking about the safety rules actually designed to protect the company's liability, but to protect the workers who make those profits and bonuses possible for the owners? Anyone?

                                  Thanks for the space.

                                  • 6 votes
                                  #19.3 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:03 AM EDT

                                  I'm passionate about this because I'm a miner - and yes, union. Thankfully my union stands up for me concerning workplace safety. I'm further protected by MSHA (Mine Safety and Health Administration) - they tend to be tougher than OSHA, although I think they could be better concerning coal mining. You are correct about OSHA, they have become a toothless tiger.

                                  I love it when my company makes a profit from my hard work. They make money, I make money and our local economy is strengthened. I think that businesses have a moral obligation to protect workers from harm. If they have no morals, then make them financially responsible.

                                  • 4 votes
                                  #19.4 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:23 AM EDT

                                  YooperJim

                                  I agree with everything you said in your post. Mining, is serious business. I've worked in offices most of my life -- almost felt like a miner myself. Take care of yourself and stay safe.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #19.5 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:06 PM EDT
                                  Reply

                                  No surprise, its Kentucky home of Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul. Ky. safe for Corp. killers, no justice for the workers, no never mind people are expendable. Despicable.

                                  • 9 votes
                                  Reply#20 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:02 PM EDT

                                  Ah, yes. Rand Paul. When the SCOTUS declared Obamacare was constitutional, this thoughful man said, "Just because the Supreme Court says it's constitutional doesn't make it constitutional." God bless Amurka. And Rand Paul too of course.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #20.1 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:13 PM EDT
                                  Reply

                                  This is what you get when you vote for the business candidate.....

                                  • 10 votes
                                  Reply#21 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:03 PM EDT

                                  "Travesty of justice" Yep, and people wonder why Unions came about. Sad for her and her family.

                                  • 11 votes
                                  Reply#22 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:03 PM EDT

                                  If corporations want to be people. Charge them criminally, like a person, and sentence them similarly. Jail would removal from society, for societies protection of course, for a period of time. If utilities and property taxes are due sell said assets as needed and return the remainder upon completion of the sentence.

                                  • 14 votes
                                  Reply#23 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:07 PM EDT
                                  bicfjDeleted

                                  The first thing you got to remember is You are nothing but a number on a timeclock to them They wont do squat to protect you. You got to look out for yourself. I fthey wont fix things then report them to the authorities until they do. this is why you need unions..top protect you from these bureacrats who only care about profit. This was a japanese company too wasnt it?

                                  • 11 votes
                                  Reply#25 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:08 PM EDT

                                  Its Kentucky a right to work state and all the state has give all the power to employers. Workers are just serfs there.

                                  You can't really be surprised by this are you.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  Reply#26 - Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:08 PM EDT

                                  Kentucky is not a "right -to-work" state.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #26.1 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:10 AM EDT
                                  Reply
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