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Subscribe to RSSFrom a continuing series of articles, Who Can Vote?, a News21 investigation of voting rights in America. Read the previous article, Disabled and elderly voters face a new Voter ID hurdle at the polls.
By Ethan Magoc
News21
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Discuss this series of stories on the Facebook page for Open Channel, the NBC News investigative blog. |
A growing number of conservative Republican state legislators worked fervently during the past two years to enact laws requiring voters to show photo identification at the polls.
Lawmakers proposed 62 photo ID bills in 37 states in the 2011 and 2012 sessions, with multiple bills introduced in some states. Ten states have passed strict photo ID laws since 2008, though several may not be in effect in November because of legal challenges.
A News21 analysis found that more than half of the 62 bills were sponsored by members or conference attendees of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), a Washington, D.C., tax-exempt organization.
ALEC has nearly 2,000 state legislator members who pay $100 in dues every two years. Most of ALEC’s money comes from nonprofits and corporations — from AT&T to Bank of America to Chevron to eBay — which pay thousands of dollars in dues each year.
“I very rarely see a single issue taken up by as many states in such a short period of time as with voter ID,” said Jennie Bowser, senior election policy analyst at the National Conference of State Legislatures, a bipartisan organization that compiles information about state laws. “It’s been a pretty remarkable spread.”
A strict photo ID law, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures, requires voters to show photo ID or cast a provisional ballot, which is not counted unless the voter returns with an ID to the elections office within a few days. Less-strict laws allow voters without ID to sign an affidavit or have a poll worker vouch for their identity — no provisional ballot necessary.
The flurry of bills introduced the last two years followed the 2010 midterm election when Republicans took control of state legislatures in Alabama, Minnesota, Montana, North Carolina and Wisconsin. The same shift occurred in the 2004 election in Indiana and Georgia before those states became the first to pass strict voter ID laws.
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Who can vote? A national News21 investigation of voting rights in America. |
ALEC members drafted a voter ID bill in 2009, a year when the 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization had $5.3 million in undisclosed corporate and nonprofit contributions, according to Internal Revenue Service documents.
At ALEC’s annual conferences, legislators, nonprofits and corporations work together without direct public input to develop bills that promote smaller government.
The group’s Public Safety and Elections Task Force at the 2009 Atlanta meeting approved the “Voter ID Act,” a photo ID bill modeled on Indiana and Georgia laws.
News21 is a program of the Carnegie Corporation of New York and the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation that is helping to change the way journalism is taught in the U.S. and train a new generation of journalists capable of reshaping the news industry. It is headquartered at the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. Since 2006, nearly 500 top journalism students in the U.S. have participated in the landmark national initiative.
The task force convened in committees at the downtown Hyatt Regency Atlanta that July. Arkansas state Rep. Dan Greenberg, Arizona state Sen. Russell Pearce and Indiana state Rep. Bill Ruppel (three Republicans now out of office) led drafting and discussion of the Voter ID Act.
Critics of photo voter ID laws, such as the Advancement Project, a Washington D.C., civil rights group, say voters without a driver’s license or the means (a birth certificate or Social Security card) to obtain free ID cards at a state motor vehicles office could be disenfranchised.
They claim that ALEC pushed for photo ID laws because poor Americans without ID are likely to vote against conservative interests – a claim that authors of the Voter ID bills deny.
“By no means do I want to disenfranchise anyone,” said Colorado Republican state Rep. Libby Szabo whose ID bills have failed the last two years in the state’s Democratic senate.
“I can’t speak for each individual person,” Szabo said, “but it seems to me in today’s mobile society people have been able to manage transportation options for other necessary services.”
Szabo, an ALEC member, said she did not know ALEC had a model photo ID bill prior to submitting her legislation.
The late Paul Weyrich, a political activist and co-founder of the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, helped start ALEC in 1973. For many years, it steadily increased in state-level legislative members, developed annual conferences and had a relatively low national profile.
As ALEC grew, it began drafting and disseminating “model bills” that advocated free market economic ideas, such as eliminating capital gains taxes and weakening labor and consumer laws. Its website states, “Each year, close to 1,000 bills, based at least in part on ALEC Model Legislation, are introduced in the states. Of these, an average of 20 percent become law.”
This statement was difficult to substantiate until 2011 because ALEC’s model bills and membership lists were secret. After Ohio community organizer Aliyah Rahman helped start a spring 2011 protest against ALEC in Cincinnati, someone offered her 800 ALEC documents.
Rahman, who said she never learned the leaker’s identity, turned the documents over to the Center for Media and Democracy, a Wisconsin investigative reporting group focused on “exposing corporate spin and government propaganda,” according to its website. The group launched a website called ALEC Exposed in July 2011.
While that site drew attention to ALEC, activist and media scrutiny exploded because of the council’s support for model bills unrelated to economic issues.
In December 2011, ColorOfChange.org, a civil rights advocacy group founded after Hurricane Katrina, began asking corporations to stop funding ALEC because of the group’s role in pushing photo ID bills.
The seeds of a more serious challenge to ALEC’s funding were planted seven years ago. Florida Republican Rep. Dennis Baxley, who in 2011 would sponsor the state’s controversial early voting and registration changes, sponsored a “stand your ground” law in 2005 that gave “immunity from criminal prosecution or civil action for using deadly force,” according to the bill’s summary.
It later became a National Rifle Association-supported ALEC model bill, and 24 other states now have similar laws, according to ProPublica.
The February 2012 killing of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., brought unprecedented attention to the law. Police did not arrest his shooter, George Zimmerman, for nearly two months. That sparked national protests and led to the dismissal of the city’s police chief. Zimmerman eventually was charged with second-degree murder in April and is free on $1 million bond.
In March, ColorOfChange.org began asking ALEC corporate funders why they gave money to a group that supported “stand your ground” and voter ID laws, two controversial non-economic issues.
More than 25 corporations, including Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Wal-Mart and Amazon, have announced they would stop funding ALEC.
“In a lot of cases, companies didn’t know the full range of what they were funding" through ALEC, said Gabriel Rey-Goodlatte, ColorOfChange.org’s director of strategy. “With voter ID, it’s possible some companies believe it’s in their business interest to tilt the political playing field in one direction, but that would be a very cynical business strategy.
“It’s one that only works if it’s done in the darkness,” he said.
Both the Center for Media and Democracy and the open government advocacy group, Common Cause, have published internal ALEC documents, including model bills, membership lists and correspondence with elected officials.
Common Cause is challenging ALEC’s status as a tax-exempt nonprofit, claiming it lobbies legislators — specifically through “issue alerts.” Common Cause claims these emails from ALEC headquarters to state legislators “constitute direct evidence of ALEC’s lobbying because they are communications that are clearly targeted to influence legislation and disclose ALEC’s view on the legislation.”
Marcus Owens, a retired director of the IRS Tax Exempt and Government Entities Division, represents a progressive church group in Ohio called Clergy Voices Oppose Illegal Church Entanglement, or Clergy VOICE. In June, Owens sent a 30-page letter to the IRS alleging that ALEC has engaged in lobbying and violated federal tax law.
But Baxley called it “a healthy thing for legislators to come together and have dialogue about bills.” He said that ALEC’s operations are similar to, though more conservative than, the bipartisan National Conference of State Legislatures. “If they share ideas, I don’t start yelling conspiracy. It’s very inappropriate,” Baxley said.
Meagan Dorsch, public affairs director for the National Conference of State Legislatures, disputed Baxley’s characterization. “I’m not sure why we’re being compared — probably because we’re two of the larger legislative organizations,” Dorsch said. “The only people who vote on our policies are legislators. No corporate members are involved.”
Common Cause staff counsel Nick Surgey said the documents his group sent to the IRS provide “a snapshot of what ALEC’s been doing” from 2010 to 2012, but the group has not come across any ALEC issue alerts related to the Voter ID Act.
ALEC, whose staff declined to discuss the group’s role in advocating for voter ID bills throughout a seven-month News21 investigation, will not disclose which corporations voted for the model voter ID bill nor whether issue alerts were sent to states considering such legislation.
“It is vitally important to protect the integrity of our voting system in the United States and such protection must come from the state level,” a July 2009 ALEC newsletter said. “That is why ALEC members are actively working on these issues.
“Election reform is both critical and complex, with multiple possible solutions for different states. Therefore, ALEC is uniquely positioned to raise awareness and provide effective solutions to ensure a legal, fair and open election system,” the newsletter continued.
Andy Jones (a former intern) and Jonathan Moody (still an ALEC staff member) wrote that article. Jones declined to comment and Moody did not respond to an interview request.
Sean Parnell worked with state legislators Greenberg, Pearce and Ruppel when they drafted the ALEC model voter ID bill (Pearce did not respond to multiple interview requests). Parnell was then the president of the Center for Competitive Politics, an Alexandria, Va., organization that opposes campaign contribution limits.
“A number of organizations — on all sides — are a little too paranoid about talking,” said Parnell, who now runs a consulting firm, Impact Policy Management. “But you have to understand, as private entities, they have every right to say, ‘You know what? This is not something for public consumption.’”
“But I can tell you, ALEC private-sector members really didn’t care one way or the other when we discussed voter ID,” he said.
Ruppel said about 50 legislators and private-sector members voted on the bill, with a wide majority voting yes. “The private sector was a little quiet on it, but they were the ones who said people need IDs for everything these days. It’s common sense.”
News21 attempted to contact each of the 115 ALEC Public Safety and Elections Task Force members listed on a 2010 document that Common Cause published. The majority did not return phone calls. Former Michigan state Rep. Kim Meltzer, one of 108 Republicans on the task force, said she didn’t know voter ID was an ALEC initiative.
Georgia legislator Edward Lindsey said ALEC gradually developed “mission creep” and strayed from its economic-centered purpose. ALEC, facing intense media attention and corporate dropouts, disbanded the Public Safety and Elections Task Force in April.
“That should help them focus on core economic policies instead of on the machinations of democracy,” said Keesha Gaskins, senior counsel at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law, a group that opposes strict photo ID laws.
Legislator interest in voter ID
It is difficult to find exact matches between ALEC’s Voter ID Act and strict photo ID bills that appeared nationwide in the past two years. Much of the minutiae of the bills’ language differs, which Greenberg said is the objective.
“That’s the way ALEC works. We don’t give people an ironclad law to propose,” he said.
And because Greenberg’s bill was modeled on the Indiana and Georgia laws, many legislators interviewed for this story said their proposals were also based on those laws, not ALEC’s model bill.
Still, the Center for Media and Democracy’s Brendan Fischer said his group sees “pretty strong evidence” of the influence of the Voter ID Act: “We identified numerous instances where legislation introduced in state legislatures contained ‘ALEC DNA’ — meaning the state legislation and the ALEC models shared similar or identical language or provisions.”
State bill sponsors, including Republican state Rep. Cathrynn Brown of New Mexico, said their motivation did not come from ALEC, but from reports about the now-defunct liberal voter registration group, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN).
“We had groups like them going around doing registrations and discarding the ones they didn’t like,” Brown said.
ACORN, which endorsed Barack Obama for president in 2008, became the target of conservative activist James O’Keefe’s deceptively edited videos that purported to show employees encouraging criminal behavior.
ACORN folded in 2010 after Congress and private donors pulled its funding. New Hampshire state Rep. Jordan Ulery blamed the group for increasing partisan fighting about election fraud.
A News21 survey of the states found that there had been only about 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud in the U.S. in the past decade.
“Are both parties guilty of games? Sadly, yes,” said Ulery, a former member of ALEC’s Public Safety and Elections Task Force. Ulery, a Republican, supported his state’s voter ID bills, which have twice been vetoed by New Hampshire's Democratic governor.
“But only one political party in this past decade has actually been widely associated with an entity that was actively engaged in registration scams, trucking of voters and avoiding with the greatest possible energy vote-security measures,” Ulery said about Democrats.
Former ACORN director Bertha Lewis now runs a civil rights group in New York City called the Black Institute. She is still defiant toward ACORN’s critics.
“Our quality-control program was so good, and we were so strict, we would fire people on the spot,” said Lewis, who estimated that ACORN registered more than a million voters in 2007 and 2008 before Obama’s election. “I only regret that we weren’t as prepared, that we were naive when the critics started spreading lies.”
After ALEC’s 2009 Voter ID Act, ACORN’s 2010 collapse, and the 2010 midterm elections, 62 voter ID bills were introduced in state legislatures.
Legislators who would discuss how they wrote their bills all said they did not use ALEC’s Voter ID Act.
“I have a long history with this,” said state Rep. Mary Kiffmeyer, Minnesota’s former secretary of state and a Republican who wrote Minnesota’s voter ID bill. “For people who say this is just ALEC’s bill is demeaning to me as a woman and a legislator — suggesting that we couldn’t write our own bill for Minnesota.”
Greenberg isn’t surprised lawmakers have dissociated themselves from the ALEC model, given the recent backlash.
“Some of that is legislative vanity that is not confined to the realm of ALEC,” and Greenberg says he “can’t imagine claiming that I don’t copy good ideas when I see them, but I think for some legislators, this would be a scary admission.”
Discuss this series of stories on the Facebook page for Open Channel, the NBC News investigative blog.
Leave a Comment:
This is every bit as much news as "Flurry of illegal petition signatures tied to ACORN."
String up ALEC members !
The easiest vote taken away is one from a person whom doesn't care. By not simply requiring people to show an ID that they show every day for many, many normal activities shows that those in power are more concerned with pandering and divisiveness than maintaining/preserving the voting process. The line about the elderly won't be able to vote, the veterans won't be able to vote, the poor, etc. is such a complete load of political BS. I liken that tripe to "they'll kill your grandmother", "they'll take away your foodstamps", and "they hate you". It's all quite simple, if you care that your vote count (and not be offset by someone whom has no legal, legitimate reason to vote) then you should be ok with showing the same ID to vote as you do to pay with a credit card in a store.
It's time to grow up America.
Study after study finds no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
The goal is clear. The GOP want to suppress the vote in hope of electing Romney.
Voter ID is fine with me, just make it fair and free. Make transportation available for the elderly and immobile so that they can get their ID, or allow situations where officials come to the voter.
Eric, we all know the law is only a tool for Republicans to rally around, similarly as the Jews where for Nazis. A propaganda tool does not require evidence or facts, just emotions in the form of fear.
I think it was SC that provides free IDs and even free rides to get them and only 23 people have taken advantage of it. Doesnt sound like a lot of motivated voters to me.
joe, try this one on here in Fl., a birth certificate signed by a doctor, duly registered in the state of birth is an unacceptable proof of citizenship, why: because the document doesn't reflect birth in a hospital, right hospital. Neighbor lady, born in 1918 hasn't driven in years needed to obtain a state ID, off we go to the dmv and her birth certificate deemed unacceptable because signed by dr. she was born on a farm in Ky. at home and was lucky a dr. was in attendance. $30.00 later we were finally able to obtain documentation from SS admin. and the state of Ky., she finally got her id and now can vote. She also established her banking creds. years ago and no need at this time time to open a new account, and certainly doesn't id for to buy booze, or climb on a airplane. There are instances when American Citizens are denied Voting Rights because they are old, but it is the right of every American to vote. Please stop vilifying the least of our society. There is no voter fraud. Think before you vent your anger, might surprise you that the right arguments are not always valid.
Anybody who calls himself a Republican/ Conservative/ Tea Party member today is Un-American, and in fact Anti-American. Their goal is to destroy and enslave America's worker, women and minorities. They should be drummed out of every office across the land. They've vowed loyalty only to their own greed, the multi-national corporations and to China.
No surprise here...
Every intelligent voter, who is well informed, and paying close attention to this presidential (and down ticket)
elections kows...
The Republican-T-Party's lipstick on a pig:
Conservatism...
...is nothing more than a clever euphemism for...
White supremacist, advocates for the new Confederacy, misogynist, homophobic, greedy, lying, unAmericans...
...willing to SELL democracy to the highest corporate bidder (Kochheads, Adelsons, and Trumps Oh my!), hypocritical, BLACKMAILERS withholding jobs and artificially depressing the economy in order to make the President look bad...
Don't take my word for it...
John Boehner knows Republican-T-Party Confederate skanks are "KNUCLEDRAGGERS"...
Boehner's own words!
They brought the country to the brink of default, caused the country's credit rating to be downgraded, in a recless, irresponsible game of economic terrorism; and the pathological liar and acolyte of the criminal Cheney-Bush junta, Paul Ryan , had the audacity to stand at that (Massachusetts) townhall (held in NH), and blamed the President for that downgrade!
Paul Ryan and Todd (legitimate rapist) Akin are two peas in a rotten pod...
Akin was very confident in his statement, as though he knew what he was talking about...
...after all, he does have two daughters...
Of course Republicans don't want a huge voter turnout, because the more people who vote, the greater the chances are Republicans are going to be voted OUT OF EXISTENCE...
Only lowlife idiot would vote for ANY Republican scumbag!
Willard WHERE ARE YOUR TAX RETURNS! Inquiring, deliberative, intelligent voters want to see them!
There is a big difference
ACORN is now non-existent organization that was used by right wing propaganda outlets as the focus of their daily two minute hate.
ALEC is an existent corporate astroturf origination that is trying to suppress the right to vote to further the economic interest of the companies that fund and control it.
More wonderful laws from the corporate branch of our government.
I rarely have to show ID to use my credit cards at the major stores anymore. Unless it is a major purchase.
Boycott all companies tied to ALEC.
Kudos Jeff-1592116 my sentiments exactly!
This is the FOURTH VOTER FRAUD ARTICLE THE PROPAGANDA MACHINE NEWS21 has put out in the last week.
Just look at NBC's "recommended" to see the other THREE by NEW21
anyone else posting here not seeing the agenda of this infotainment crap is and idiot no matter what political side your on...
quit being sheeple people... NEW21 are totally horrible news people and would not know news if it bit them...
It is blatantly OBVIOUS, to anyone, that a company (news21) that writes FOUR articles, in one week, covering the same subject matter and keep saying one party is to blame, has a serious agenda... the agenda of BIASED INFOTAINMENT PERIOD.
NEWS21 and NBC are absolutely pathetic... if you believe this crap you are a total moron
Grover, that's perfect, Dork
I'm not afraid of poor people. I just know that there will always be someone poorer than the next person.
What are progressives afraid of?? Success?? Can you be successful in the United States of America without showing ID??
Jeff - The propaganda is from the left that success is ruining this country. What the hell are they thinking?
Flurry of voter ID opposition tied to NAACP and liberal groups.
WRITE AN ARTICLE ABOUT THAT YOU PATHETIC EXCUSES FOR JOURNALISTS.
0BAMA COULD CRAP IN YOUR CHEERIOS AND YOU WOULD WRITE A GLOWING ARTICLE ABOUT HOW 0BAMA ENCOURAGES A FIBER RICH BREAKFAST.
Who pays to operate this failing 0bama Super PAC?
The Republican Party has launched a full frontal assault on the Constitution and one of our most sacred rights of every citizen. The right to vote.
This assault has been underway for nearly ten years. A close friend of mine had a discussion with a GOP legislator we both knew here in Oklahoma. He was gleeful at the prospect of all these anti-immigrant, voter fraud issues because the victims of these legislative efforts, minorities and illegal immigrants had no voice. They were powerless. They were defenseless.
His proposed legislation was provided to him by ALEC.
Alec has been very successful nationwide. But that's only the tip of the iceberg. The NEW GOP has now begun a program designed to cut off traditional sources of contribution to Democrat candidates. Unions, Trial Lawyers and other have been targeted. Scott Walker is just one example. The unions are weak here because we are a right to work state, so the GOP-controlled legislature went after the trial lawyers under the false banner of "tort reform."
And now they are ready to move into their next phase. They plan to run ultra-conservative, tea party candidates against every GOP moderate at all levels of government, from school boards to the state house and Congress. They are going to stack these institution with more "my way or the highway" clones of Paul Ryan.
They've got Fox News to poison the debate and misinform their followers, they've got Rush Limbaugh and now, thanks to the Citizens United ruling, their wealthy controllers can dump unprecedented amounts of cash into our elections, even FOREIGN, non-citizens can pour money into the GOP coffers.
This is scary.
It is insidious, it is un-American and it is happening RIGHT NOW. They are trying to disenfranchise a large segment of our society in order to take control of our government.
You need to understand, you need to vote, you need to help us stop this now.
Obama/Biden 2012
We've had a whole 8 cases of voter fraud in our state in the past decade, yet our republican governor proposed IDs and took down the signs telling people that they could get one at the Motor Vehicle Dept. it turned out it didn't matter as 3 judges ruled his law Unconstitutional . Yes, I'm talking about Wisconsin and Wacko Walker! His law would have denied an estimated 140,000 people the right to vote. Mostly the elderly and college students!
Grover: LOL....I like the way you think!
"As ALEC grew, it began drafting and disseminating “model bills” that advocated free market economic ideas, such as eliminating capital gains taxes and weakening labor and consumer laws. Its website states, “Each year, close to 1,000 bills, based at least in part on ALEC Model Legislation, are introduced in the states. Of these, an average of 20 percent become law.”
So much for the honesty of our elected in pretraying just who they represent in washington. Going by just this statement it would seem that all or most all politicans go with whoever is throwing the most money at them..and by just what their political party members tell them to do..not what their voters are asking them to do.
VOTE! That's the answer. And I like whoever said to boycott all companies supporting ALEC!
The bottom line is that the Republicans cannot win fairly without cheating because they are so over the top with their beliefs so they have to force them down your throat. Talk about transparent.
What brings the allegation of voter fraud into this? Well, in the January 2010 special election for the Massachusetts Senate seat, Romney cast a mail-in ballot for Scott Brown. Of course, the fact that Romney was using his son's house at the time didn't escape notice: Here's a Jan. 8, 2010 item from Christina Bellantoni at Talking Points Memo, reporting the matter. At the time, Romney's spokesperson said that he "never gave up his Massachusetts residency." There seems to be no evidence that he cast ballots in any other state during this time.
nwnative
Come back and say that after November. The progressive/liberals are going to be kicked to the curb this year. President Obama has put their agenda out for everyone to see and most American don't like what they've seen. That is the best part of this failed administration.
Tea Party Trailer Trash,
Ignorant, arrogant, KKK members.
I don't understand what the big deal is, if they ask for ID to vote. I am from Mexico and they ask for ID over there before you vote, what's wrong with that?
@Eric-913730 Comment collapsed by the community
So where are your studies showing that ID laws actually suppress peoples ability to vote? Or do you only care about facts when they support your position?
The elderly and immobile WON'T NEED an ID because they'll be able to vote absentee and their votes verified in the same manner as such votes are now. The liberal argument might be a little more valid if they stopped to actually look at the facts of how these laws work rather than just jumping on the rhetoric bandwagon.
Where is the story as to why Democrats prefer this method? If, after all, Republicans are a bunch of stupid backwards hicks, wouldnt it benefit the Democratic party to have these woodsman come up with a photo ID as well?
All, a rebuttal is due. If, as you and John Stewart said the other night, voter fraud isn't an issue then it shouldn't be a big deal to implement voter ID requirements.
I contest that the "isn't an issue" is false- an example being the recent recall election in Wisconsin where Madison had over 119% voter turnout. The rationale for the turnout was "well more people registered because they wanted Walker out." If you account for the state average turnouts (69% in the last presidential election, 50% in 2010) then you have to realize that getting 100% of registered voters out is EXTREMELY unlikely- then to add an additional 20% on top of that is virtually insane. So I attest that it doesn't add up and it was likely that there were illegitimate votes cast.
I do agree that it should be reasonably possible to get a legal ID in your state. I like to think the 90 year old lady was an anomolie as she was born and lived most of her life long ago (when records were not computerized and compiled), most other people have needs for IDs- including credit, driving, banking, etc. etc. so the example is noted, but not the usual situation. Here are Florida's rules for getting an ID (as the example was in Florida):
"Applicants for a first time original Florida driver license must provide two forms of identification, proof of date of birth, proof of residential address, and proof of social security number. Non US Citizens must present proof of legal presence. All applicants must show proof that they have completed a traffic law and substance abuse education course and will be required to pass vision and hearing tests, road rules and road sign tests, plus a driving test. Applicants for a learner’s license must be at least 15 years old and must present a parental consent form. Go to the complete list of learner’s license information, rules and restrictions. The same identification requirements for citizens and proof of legal presence for non-citizens are required to get an identification card. See how to apply, and age and fee requirements."
So it's not that hard to get an ID, just a matter of due dilligence for most people- and states already have the means to give those IDs out, so they aren't exluding people by requiring someone to get one to vote.
For those spewing your vitreol against the Republicans- It's old and tiring. Clearly you don't have interest in a dialog and don't care what the facts are regarding voting rights and statutes. If you don't care that someone whom might not have a legitimate right to vote (illegal immigrant, felon, doesn't live in your state, using dead person's identity, etc.) might vote for Romney then far be it for me to persuade you to want to preserve the value of your vote.
When the number of people disenfranchised due to the Voter ID laws exceeds the number of proven election frauds, then the anti-democracy groups will have won. And, actually, wherever these Voter ID Laws have been enacted and actually used, then we have already exceeded the number of dienfranchised voters with respect to the number of voter frauds!
@ivan, NC
As long as the red and blue sheep in our country refuse to vote for anyone without a "D" or "R" after their names they'll continue to get nothing but the same. Personally I don't see how most people can bitch about getting what they've asked for.
All these righties sticking up for the republicans will be the ones crying when their party gets in office and they will no longer get their welfare checks, SS checks, medicare checks, food stamps, pell grants, child care deduction, earned income credit. When they get hit in the face of what they voted for, you will see them crying. As most informed know, its the red states that take advantage of the safety net than blue states. So keep voting against your own interests, but dont come crying when you are on the street with no food to eat.
The Republicans see their best road to victory paved by trampeling on the voting rights of others.
In the last dozen years, there have been only 10 cases of voter fraud of the type supposedly targeted by the legislation. The legislation will prevent hundreds of thousands of legitimate, mostly democratic votes. That is the real election fraud.
I thought Republicans = smaller Government? Then why are they creating more laws and bigger government by trying to suppress the vote - unless they feel they can't win a fair election!!!
Totally two faced if you ask me - if all other country's (Iraqi as a example) have to do is check their name and put their finger in indelible ink to vote then why in the world are we making this process so difficult???
It should be a national holiday - businesses and schools should be closed to allow plenty of time to vote and celebrate the winners!!!
Stop - disenfranchising the poor, the old, the minorities in this country. Very Un-American.
ALEC is funded solely through corporate "donations" and memberships.
In other words, someone is buying themselves an election. Don't you wonder who and why?
And for all you above saying it's all aboveboard and fine - don't you wonder why absentee ballots (the only kind ever actually shown to be fraudulent) are EXEMPT from these laws?
Couldn't be because absentee ballot voters tend to be Republican could it?
Shine the light on ALEC...!
I'm baffled at the notion that there was ever an option to not show your ID when you voted.
I think I'm going to go to Chicago, tell them that I'm Barrack Obama. Then I'll vote for Romney.
If you can't be bothered to get an ID, then what are the odds you can be bothered to vote? Anti voter ID people just want people that can't get an ID (illegals) to be able to vote democrat.
And why is that, one more time? Since absentee ballots are far more likely to be used fraudulently than voting in person.
And by "fair election" I assume you mean, one where all of the illegals are allowed to vote, using someone else's name.
The polls show the vast majority of Americans are behind voter-ID laws. So what's the problem?
It makes perfect sense to show ones ID to vote, as well as it makes perfect sense show ones ID to be allowed in to a press event hosted by Obama's top cop, Eric Holder.
What is a serious issue, is Obama going around Congress to implement his liberal, socialist agenda, i.e. giving 1 million work visas to illegal aliens when American citizens are already struggling to find work. For this alone Obama does not deserve to be re-elected in November.
Hey ...wake up...
330 million plus in America... 90 million voted last election. less then 1/3rd of AMERICA votes.
240 million Americans could give a rats ass about this issue because they have proper ID i will bet.
I bet most show it several times a week to get life done.
disenfranchised voters my ass....
I see all the pathetic liberal liars are out in force today. Here's some facts
It is liberals that are racist and always have been. It used to be overt, now it's covert. Only when a minority strays off the "entitlement" reservation do the white hoods come out. Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice, etc. Google George Wallace, Robert Byrd, etc. for a little democrat history lesson.
We the people are behind voter ID laws by 75%. That means either there are very few democrats or they feel we need our constitution protected.
It is Obama and fascist liberals that are out to destroy the constitution. Obama has bypassed congress, ignored court orders, totally thumbed his nose at the law, all to further his Marxist agenda.
It was democrats in congress that destroyed the economy, they inherited 4.6% unemployment and real unemployment is double that to this day. Under their leadership the rich have gotten richer while the poor and middle class has been decimated. Obama's own aides said he chose Obamacare over the economy.
It is liberals who have to lie to get elected. In 2008 they promised fiscal responsibility and health care reform, we got $1.3 trillion deficits year after year and Obamacare instead. The lies continue to this day but like the miderm, they just don't fly anymore.
2010 should have been a wake-up call but fascist liberals have completely ignored it. A wise man would have radically changed direction like Clinton did. Obama and his socialist minions in congress have a Marxist agenda and will not deviate, choosing to wage a propaganda war rather that debate facts and compromise on solutions.
Obama is so supremely incompetent that even ultra liberal US News and World Report is throwing him overboard. Despite his 205 fund raisers, (more that the last five presidents combined!), he is still not inspiring donors, a huge contrast with 2008. Sorry, he won't buy his way into the white house this time.
Lastly, for every ALEC there is a Tides foundation, for every Norquist there is a Soros. Fascist liberals pointing fingers are complete hypocrites.
Rev - You are a symptom of the problem with liberals. You know you are lying/misrepresenting the facts. ACORN does still exist, just under many new names, such as Community organizers International. ACORN did, and its new organizations will, violate election laws and propagate voter fraud. THAT is the need for the voter ID laws.
Nate Silver - statistician extraordinaire at FiveThirtyEight.com:
And here's the chart:
Estimated Effect of Voter Law Changes 2008-2012
Collapse all you want Republitards but the truth is the truth. :)
Eric, we all know the law is only a tool for Republicans to rally around, similarly as the Jews where for Nazis. A propaganda tool does not require evidence or facts, just emotions in the form of fear.
Colorado-man - you have no case. Not one person signed up by Acorn ever voted fraudulently.
The only thing they were cited for was turning in voter registration cards that didn't have accurate or factual information on them. That didn't have anything to do with vote fraud, however, as none of those people voted.
Nobody is giving ALEC millions of dollars to stop a few "Mickey Mouse" voter registration cards. They're doing it for the effect shown in Nate Silver's chart above.
It's an investment they expect to profit from. They wouldn't get diddly-squat from stopping inaccurate registration cards. And that's why absentee ballots are exempted.
Throw GRANDMA and GRANDPA in the car.
Get your COMMUNITY SOCIAL AGENCIES out to drive the poor to a photo I.D. spot.
The Republicans would HATE this.
Time to put our PATRIOTISM where our mouth is.
Our Nation's Voting participation is ABYSMAL.
Start telling, posting, tweeting, writing, talking, SHOUTING that going to the POLLS is the way individuals can make a difference.
No more whining...please.
.
.
.
Colorado Man... the fiction in your brain needs a FACT-CHECK
rod father...The KKK came from the democRATS not the right! BUT from the "wrong"! I can post it if your man enough to actually read it! You may not understand it though. after all you ARE a commi lib!
This has NOTHING to do with voter fraud, it is all political. How do I know? Because the Republican governor of Penn announced it, on camera.
He stated that the ONLY purpose of voter ID laws was to get Romney elected... the ONLY PURPOSE!
You can not claim "voter fraud" or any other bull-s*** excuse when YOUR politicians announce, on camera, their true intent.
So for everyone keeping track, every single Republican on here yelling "voter fraud" is a complete LIAR.
The Tea Baggers and their Republican allies are society's rats.
They offer nothing of value to anyone, hide behind the rhetoric of growth while pursuing economic suicide, claim to be holier than thou while harboring more hatred than any one person can carry without imploding, claim to be more productive while they hoard their wealth, and more greedy as they avoid taxes and destroy social supports..
To JoeNY:
You said:
I contest that the "isn't an issue" is false- an example being the recent recall election in Wisconsin where Madison had over 119% voter turnout. The rationale for the turnout was "well more people registered because they wanted Walker out." If you account for the state average turnouts (69% in the last presidential election, 50% in 2010) then you have to realize that getting 100% of registered voters out is EXTREMELY unlikely- then to add an additional 20% on top of that is virtually insane. So I attest that it doesn't add up and it was likely that there were illegitimate votes cast.
The voter turnout in Madison was actually 73%. Here is the breakdown from the City of Madison website:
Voter Turnout for Recall Election
In the City of Madison, 120,739 voters cast ballots in the June 5 Recall Election. Turnout was equal to 73 percent of pre-registered voters, and 63 percent of eligible voters. The City of Madison uses the number of pre-registered voters to calculate its ballot orders and turnout predictions because pre-registered voter data is available by ward.
The initial count of election day registration forms indicates that 19,052 voters registered at the polls in the City of Madison on Tuesday. A total of 34,291 City of Madison residents have registered to vote this year.
The polling places with the greatest number of election day registrations were Porchlight (617 registrations), Gates of Heaven (573 registrations), Eastside Lutheran (535 registrations), Capitol Lakes (535 registrations), Doyle Administration (487 registrations), Lowell Center (454 registrations), Coventry Village (440 registrations), Fire Station #1 (425 registrations), Madison Ice Arena (411 registrations), Meriter-McKee Clinic (402 registrations), Lapham Elementary (396 registrations), First Congregational (363 registrations), St James (375 registrations), and Glendale (354 registrations).
Two hundred thirty-nine eligible voters were not able to register to vote in the City of Madison on Election Day with the new proof of residence requirements included in the voter ID law.
The City of Madison issued 16,681 absentee ballots for the June 5 election. As of election night, 1,844 of those ballots had not yet been returned to be counted. Any absentee ballots postmarked no later than Election Day and delivered to the Clerk's Office by mail no later than 4 p.m. Friday, June 8, will be counted by the Board of Canvassers.
Just so you know, in order to register, you do need to provide an ID.
That's like saying Mitt Romney and Barack Obama are both rich men.
Mitt Romney 2010 income: $21.6 million (adjusted gross, after a bunch of deductions)
Net worth: At least $250 million
Barack Obama: $1.728 million (adjusted gross, basically the same as what he actually grossed)
Net worth: $8.3 million
Corporations and people like Sheldon Adelson and the Koch brothers are pouring hundreds of millions into our political system. Not $1 million or $2 million here or there. It's an INVESTMENT, Phil - they expect to get it all back, AND MORE.
Don't you understand? It's completely self-interest. Not your interest.
truetexan
The Democratic and Republican parties switched. You would know that if you had any education... but you are from Texas, and we all know where the education level in THAT state is.
Now go crack open a Coors light, turn on NASCAR, and yell "Yeeee Haaaa" from your double-wide. Who needs edumacation when you gots the bible, aint that right Tex?
So I guess you're pulling that straight "D" lever every election, texan?
@Debdem
Wrong! Personal welfare is dominated by blue states and cities. Federal money to the states includes things like infrastructure spending, ag and energy subsidies and military expenditures. How do you equate any of these things to a "safety net"?
"As most informed know...", ROTFLMAO!!
mguy...TRY THIS ON FOR SIZE IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND!!NO, you are NOT educated! Sen. Byrd from W. Virginia WAS a KKK member and ALL you little democRATS supported him. The parties did NOT switch. JUST because you spew B.S. doesnt make it true. Except in YOUR eyes!
This is pretty long but I would put money on the fact that MOST of you dont know this. The next time you are told that the consevatives are all about HATE, give some of this.
History Of The Democrats And The KKK.....(Why the Democrats started the KKK)
Live Leak ^
Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 12:59:36 PM by IrishMike
The original targets of the Ku Klux Klan were Republicans, both black a...
nd white, according to a new television program and book, which describe how the Democrats started the KKK and for decades harassed the GOP with lynchings and threats.
An estimated 3,446 blacks and 1,297 whites died at the end of KKK ropes from 1882 to 1964.
The documentation has been assembled by David Barton of Wallbu More..ilders and published in his book "Setting the Record Straight: American History in Black & White," which reveals that not only did the Democrats work hand-in-glove with the Ku Klux Klan for generations, they started the KKK and endorsed its mayhem.
"Of all forms of violent intimidation, lynchings were by far the most effective," Barton said in his book. "Republicans often led the efforts to pass federal anti-lynching laws and their platforms consistently called for a ban on lynching. Democrats successfully blocked those bills and their platforms never did condemn lynchings."
Further, the first grand wizard of the KKK was honored at the 1868 Democratic National Convention, no Democrats voted for the 14th Amendment to grant citizenship to former slaves and, to this day, the party website ignores those decades of racism, he said.
"Although it is relatively unreported today, historical documents are unequivocal that the Klan was established by Democrats and that the Klan played a prominent role in the Democratic Party," Barton writes in his book. "In fact, a 13-volume set of congressional investigations from 1872 conclusively and irrefutably documents that fact.
"The Klan terrorized black Americans through murders and public floggings; relief was granted only if individuals promised not to vote for Republican tickets, and violation of this oath was punishable by death," he said. "Since the Klan targeted Republicans in general, it did not limit its violence simply to black Republicans; white Republicans were also included."
Barton also has covered the subject in one episode of his American Heritage Series of television programs, which is being broadcast now on Trinity Broadcasting Network and Cornerstone Television.
Barton told WND his comments are not a condemnation or endorsement of any party or candidate, but rather a warning that voters even today should be aware of what their parties and candidates stand for.
His book outlines the aggressive pro-slavery agenda held by the Democratic Party for generations leading up to the Civil War, and how that did not die with the Union victory in that war of rebellion.
Even as the South was being rebuilt, the votes in Congress consistently revealed a continuing pro-slavery philosophy on the part of the Democrats, the book reveals.
Three years after Appomattox, the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, granting blacks citizenship in the United States, came before Congress: 94 percent of Republicans endorsed it.
"The records of Congress reveal that not one Democrat � either in the House or the Senate � voted for the 14th Amendment," Barton wrote. "Three years after the Civil War, and the Democrats from the North as well as the South were still refusing to recognize any rights of citizenship for black Americans."
He also noted that South Carolina Gov. Wade Hampton at the 1868 Democratic National Convention inserted a clause in the party platform declaring the Congress' civil rights laws were "unconstitutional, revolutionary, and void."
It was the same convention when Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, the first grand wizard of the KKK, was honored for his leadership.
Barton's book notes that in 1868, Congress heard testimony from election worker Robert Flournoy, who confessed while he was canvassing the state of Mississippi in support of the 13th and 14th Amendments, he could find only one black, in a population of 444,000 in the state, who admitted being a Democrat.
Nor is Barton the only person to raise such questions. In 2005, National Review published an article raising similar points. The publication said in 1957 President Dwight Eisenhower, a Republican, deployed the 82nd Airborne Division to desegregate the Little Rock, Ark., schools over the resistance of Democrat Gov. Orval Faubus.
Further, three years later, Eisenhower signed the GOP's 1960 Civil Rights Act after it survived a five-day, five-hour filibuster by 18 Senate Democrats, and in 1964, Democrat President Lyndon Johnson signed the 1964 Civil Rights Act after former Klansman Robert Byrd's 14-hour filibuster, and the votes of 22 other Senate Democrats, including Tennessee's Al Gore Sr., failed to scuttle the plan.
Dems' website showing jump in history
The current version of the "History" page on the party website lists a number of accomplishments � from 1792, 1798, 1800, 1808, 1812, 1816, 1824 and 1828, including its 1832 nomination of Andrew Jackson for president. It follows up with a name change, and the establishment of the Democratic National Committee, but then leaps over the Civil War and all of its issues to talk about the end of the 19th Century, William Jennings Bryan and women's suffrage.
A spokesman with the Democrats refused to comment for WND on any of the issues. "You're not going to get a comment," said the spokesman who identified himself as Luis.
"Why would Democrats skip over their own history from 1848 to 1900?" Barton asked. "Perhaps because it's not the kind of civil rights history they want to talk about � perhaps because it is not the kind of civil rights history they want to have on their website."
The National Review article by Deroy Murdock cited the 1866 comment from Indiana Republican Gov. Oliver Morton condemning Democrats for their racism.
"Every one who shoots down Negroes in the streets, burns Negro schoolhouses and meeting-houses, and murders women and children by the light of their own flaming dwellings, calls himself a Democrat," Morton said.
It also cited the 1856 criticism by U.S. Sen. Charles Sumner, R-Mass., of pro-slavery Democrats. "Congressman Preston Brooks (D-S.C.) responded by grabbing a stick and beating Sumner unconscious in the Senate chamber. Disabled, Sumner could not resume his duties for three years."
By the admission of the Democrats themselves, on their website, it wasn't until Harry Truman was elected that "Democrats began the fight to bring down the final barriers of race and gender."
"That is an accurate description," wrote Barton. "Starting with Harry Truman, Democrats began � that is, they made their first serious efforts � to fight against the barriers of race; yet � Truman's efforts were largely unsuccessful because of his own Democratic Party."
Even then, the opposition to rights for blacks was far from over. As recently as 1960, Mississippi Democratic Gov. Hugh White had requested Christian evangelist Billy Graham segregate his crusades, something Graham refused to do. "And when South Carolina Democratic Gov. George Timmerman learned Billy Graham had invited African Americans to a Reformation Rally at the state Capitol, he promptly denied use of the facilities to the evangelist," Barton wrote.
The National Review noted that the Democrats' "Klan-coddling" today is embodied in Byrd, who once wrote that, "The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia."
The article suggested a contrast with the GOP, which, when former Klansman David Duke ran for Louisiana governor in 1991 as a Republican, was "scorned" by national GOP officials.
Until 1935, every black federal legislator was Republican, and it was Republicans who appointed the first black Air Force and Army four-star generals, established Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday as a national holiday, and named the first black national-security adviser, secretary of state, the research reveals.
Current Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice has said: "The first Republican I knew was my father, and he is still the Republican I most admire. He joined our party because the Democrats in Jim Crow Alabama of 1952 would not register him to vote. The Republicans did. My father has never forgotten that day, and neither have I."
Barton's documentation said the first opponents of slavery "and the chief advocates for racial equal rights were the churches (the Quakers, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc.). Furthermore, religious leaders such as Quaker Anthony Benezet were the leading spokesmen against slavery, and evangelical leaders such as Presbyterian signer of the Declaration Benjamin Rush were the founders of the nation's first abolition societies."
During the years surrounding the Civil War, "the most obvious difference between the Republican and Democrat parties was their stands on slavery," Barton said. Republicans called for its abolition, while Democrats declared: "All efforts of the abolitionists, or others, made to induce Congress to interfere with questions of slavery, or to take incipient [to initiate] steps in relation thereto, are calculated to lead to the most alarming and dangerous consequences, and all such efforts have the inevitable tendency to diminish the happiness of the people."
Wallbuilders also cited John Alden's 1885 book, "A Brief History of the Republican Party" in noting that the KKK's early attacks were on Republicans as much as blacks, in that blacks were adopting the Republican identity en masse.
"In some places the Ku Klux Klan assaulted Republican officials in their houses or offices or upon the public roads; in others they attacked the meetings of negroes and displaced them," Alden wrote. "Its ostensible purpose at first was to keep the blacks in order and prevent them from committing small depredations upon the property of whites, but its real motives were essentially political � The negroes were invariable required to promise not to vote the Republican ticket, and threatened with death if they broke their promises."
Barton told WND the most cohesive group of political supporters in American now is African-Americans. He said most consider their affiliation with the Democratic party longterm.
But he said he interviewed a black pastor in Mississippi, who recalled his grandmother never "would let a Democrat in the house, and he never knew what she was talking about." After a review of history, he knew, Barton said.
Citing President George Washington's farewell address, Barton told WND, "Washington had a great section on the love of party, if you love party more than anything else, what it will do to a great nation."
"We shouldn't love a party [over] a candidate's principles or values," he told WND.
Washington's farewell address noted the "danger" from parties is serious.
"Let me now � warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party, generally. � The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism," Washington said.
Jorge - in the U.S., you vote by precinct, not in a national election. Lots of people don't carry state voter ID cards - mainly anyone who doesn't drive, and often college students. (The Texas voter ID law disallowed college ID's for voting, but allowed gun permits.)
And for some indefensible reason, people who vote by absentee ballot are exempt from voter ID laws. Mainly because those are Republicans gadding about to their vacation homes, the military and ex-patriots living in places like Israel who also vote mostly Republican. Why is no one so concerned about their "real" identity?
If this is really such an important issue, it should be done the year before a national election. Not 90 days in advance. The rush tells you that something else is really driving the push. Want to guess what it is?
truetexan - Obviously you're a product of the Texas education system.
Where they quit teaching any history but creationism some time ago.
Here, I'll give you the "easy version":
Self Educated voter: The Republican party IS for smaller role of government regulations- exceptions being Voting, anything dealing with gender equality (homosexuality, abortion), and the rights of non-Christian Americans. They especially want the government to be smaller when it comes for tax collection for rich folk.
JORGE-2541621...Dont believe his B.S.! We have bben trying to get this past for a LONG time!! The dems. have been trying to cancel OUT the vote for many years. It makes you wonder just WHY do the military mainly vote Republican. They dont trust the democRATS either. I have a voter id card AND show a drivers ID when I vote. ALL the dems have are lies and distortions! Class warfare, class envy, ETC.!! Thats IT!
Divide and conquer!
truetexan - I'm glad to see that you're happy with the policies of your new corporate masters. Hope you can stand to bootlick Koch for the rest of your life. 'Cause you're selling them your country.
Realamericansfirst...Did you ever GO to school?? Your posts are of an idiot. Do some REAL research. IF you can, READ...READ the article dufus.
The enemy of the state holds the HIGHEST office in the land! The democRAT party is killing America!
You need ID for everything else, including food stamps and welfare. Why would poor people not have these to vote, but have them for freebies?
How will it hurt minorities. Does the color of your skin affect your ability to have an ID.
And for all the people crying for the elderly, I have an idea. Lets poll the elderly and see if they are for or against this law. I can promise that they are probably more for this law than anyone else.
Stop spinning the truth. Lets cut down on fraud and make it a fair election. Whats wrong with that?
And to appease the left, yes, lets make it super easy to get an ID and help people who have a hard time with it. Im all for that. But if your too lazy or stupid to get an ID, quite frankly, I dont know what you are doing voting.
This is the standard of so-called "journalism" we can expect from NBC.
This News21 organization, where this dishonest screed originated, reeks of the filthy stench of the Marxist scumbag, George Soros, a frequent guest of the Obama White House.
You need only to do a little research to find the TRUTH about this nefarious organization. According to the sidebar of this propaganda piece:
"News21 is a program of the Carnegie Corporation of New York and the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation that is helping to change the way journalism is taught in the U.S. and train a new generation of journalists capable of reshaping the news industry. It is headquartered at the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. Since 2006, nearly 500 top journalism students in the U.S. have participated in the landmark national initiative."
What they don't tell you is that the Carnegie Corp and the Knight Foundation are a couple of the most radical, left-wing organizations in the country.
Or that the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University is run by a former Washington Post editor and has faculty positions funded by Soros's Open Society Foundation.
Or that the goal of this organization is to "change the way journalism is taught in the US" and to "reshape the news industry" in order to create a left-wing propaganda machine that is even more dishonest and biased than that which we now have.
Or that many of the "student journalists" that work for this News21 group are getting their schooling paid for by Paul and Daisy SOROS Fellowships (George Soros' brother and sister-in-law).
Again, you need only to look at the "sources" that these News21 types use in support of their position:
The Advancement Project
The Center for Media and Democracy
ColorOfChange.org
ProPublica
Common Cause
The Brennan Center for Justice
EVERY one of them is a Soros-funded propaganda outlet.
Soros has spent untold millions of dollars to subvert journalism more than it already is. He gave $1.8Million to National Public Radio and has ties to over 30 mainstream media organizations.
Among those so-called "journalists" that sit on boards or are members of Soro-funded organizations are:
Christine Amanpour - ABC News
Jill Abramson - Managing Editor of The New York Times
Len Downie - Vice President of the Washington Post
Kerry Smith - Senior Vice President of ABC News
Cynthia Tucker - Editorial Page Editor of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Paula Madison - Executive Vice President of NBC Universal
Matt Thompson - Editorial Manager of National Public Radio
Ben Sherwood - ABC News President
Phil Bronstein - President of the San Francisco Chronicle
David Boardman - The Seattle Times
George Osterkamp - CBS News Producer
Why do you suppose it is that there is virtually no mention of the close ties between some of the most powerful media operations in the country and George Soros, one of the wealthiest and most powerful figures in the Democratic Party and a person who has had unlimited access to EVERY Democratic White House for decades?
THERE'S the corruption story of the century. Unfortunately, most of the public will never hear of it.
JOENY -- You failed to report the result in Madison where the "turnout of 119%" occurred. If it was pro-Walker then that tells us something about the Conservatives, if against Walker, the reverse.
So, we are spending time, money, and resources on Voter ID laws to fix a problem that does not exist (10 cases over the last decade) while ignoring problems that actually do exist. Does anyone else find that to be completely ridiculous?
truetexan - just because you don't agree with someone's political philosophy does not make them the enemy of the state.
It's intended to be a diversion off real issues where Republicans know they'll lose. The whole point is to create controversy where there's none.
Strawman fallacy. No you don't.
apparently you are lost in wonderland because you cant see the damage he has ALREADY done. They refused to go after the new black panther group for voter intimidation. He forced obama care on us (60%+ didnt want it) He has refused to enforce the laws on the books JUST because HE, the little dictator doesnt like them. There is MUCH more but you get the idea. SOOOO, Yes The enemy of the state DOES hold the highest office of the land!
truetexan
Yeeee haaaaaa... look at dat dere good ol texas edumacation. Gee golly, aint you one of dem smart texans. Yeeee haaaaa.
There is, however, one little problem with your ultra-partisan rant. As I stated before, and as you clearly lack the knowledge to understand, the NAMES "Republican" and "Democrat" mean basically nothing, when you are discussing 19th century politics. Why? Because there was constant re-naming and party switching throughout that entire time period.
Actually, the fact that YOU left out any description of the Whig party, in the time period you quoted, is proof that you severely lack the education required to even understand that numerous political switching that occurred at that time.
I bet it would piss you off to know that in the early 1800's the Democrats and Republicans were all part of the SAME party. That's right, cupcake, one party. And did you know that in the 1870's many Republicans campaigned WITH Democrats? Ohhhhhh... I bet that grinds your grits. Republicans with Democrats, well Yeeeeee Haaaaaa, dems fightin words.
Of course, your bible doesn't teach you any of this... so I am not surprised you are completely oblivious to historical facts. Now don't you need to go watch some of your day time television? You're missing the latest Jerry Springer.
Some rt wing clown above said illegals are voting...........SHOW US THE NAMES< THE PEOPLE< YOUR SOURCE! YOU CAN"T! it does not exist. Repubs in Mn have an organization running around to nursing homes and printing these lies in small newspapers Opinion pages to scare old folks and the uneducated into believing lies. When repubs were questioned about it during hearing they laughed it off, they knew about it, but laughed it off. Now repubs in Mn are trying to stop same day registration that has worked flawless in Mn to keep 500,000 people from voting as that many each year update there records and new voters sign up.
REPUBS RIGGING THE ELECTIONS WITH VOTER SUPPRESSION LAWS!
MrBurns
It's this pesky little thing called the Constitution. You know, that document that says EVERYONE has the RIGHT to vote.
Perhaps you should talk to the Republican governor of Penn. He can explain how it will hurt minorities, as he also ADMITTED on camera that the ONLY purpose of the voter ID laws he passed was to win the election for Romney.
Don't you hate it when YOUR politicians put their foot in their mouth and admit to the truth about your scheme to win the election. Your argument would be so much stronger if YOUR politician kept his mouth shut. Oh well, now we know the truth behind YOUR intentions.
RealAmericansFirst...Have you looked into how much money George Soros has "poured" into our elections over the years, since he is a major funder of Media Matters & MoveOn.org, to name a few?
Also, I read Mitt Romney's 2010 Tax Filing - you know, the one posted on the Washington Post's (Wash Post - that bastion of Right-Wing idealogs that it is) website:
Line 22 This is your total Income: $21,661,344
Line 37 This is your adjusted Gross Income: $21,646,507
So, Please RealAmericansFirst,...tell us all where these "bunch of deductions" are...TIA.
So the Romneys are worth $250 million. So what? He earned it and it's his money. The John Kerrys are worth about the same and they didn't earn it - they both married into all of it. And the Kerrys paid an effective tax rate lower than the Romneys (13.1% vs 13.9%) - he even keeps his yacht docked in R.I. because the taxes are lower in R.I. But, you know what...I don't give a rats butt. I just don't care. I'm not envious of rich people. The Romneys paid more in taxes in 2010 than I will ever make in my whole life. So what! Good for them - that's part of the American Dream.
As far as Voter fraud not being an issue... Pennsylvania had to submit into evidence, in Federal Court, documented cases of voting fraud & irregularities, for their Voter ID lawsuit.
They listed 100's of documented cases of people who were deceased prior to the election voting, people voting using someone else's name, ineligible people voting, illegal aliens voting, etc, and, having submitted the evidence into a legal proceeding, the team representing PA are subject to criminal prosecution if what they submit is proven false.
truetexan - Just out of curiosity, when the Bush administration was misleading the American people into an unnecessary war in Iraq that cost 3 trillion dollars with no plan to pay for it, did you think that Bush was the enemy of the state?
My wife recently surrendered her driver's license due to MS when she had to renew. All it took was her Birth Certificate, Marriage License and a couple bills addressed to our home. She got a free State issued ID....because you must have a valid ID, period.
She made an appointment, we went and it took longer to get a new photo taken than everything else involved.
Elderly and disabled people manage to get to Doctors and anything else they need to go in person for. First visit to any Doctor and they photocopy your Driver's License or State ID. Want a Bank account? Gotta show a valid picture ID.
How is this not fair to anyone? Everyone living legally in the US must have a valid ID. If you do not have a valid ID, it's your own damned fault.
The only reason anyone is against valid voter ID is because they know it will keep those that should not be voting for one reason or another from voting.
mguy...you missed your calling. You should have been a standup comic. You can spew your B.S. all you want but its still B.S. Tell me again WHAT party did good ol sen. Byrd belong to?? HMMM? What party did m.L.K. belong to? HMMM? (that would be the republican party demwitt) What party doesnt want the military to vote? HMMM? (research gore for an example) MY party ran David Duke OUT of politics and YOUR party embraced Byrd! Now go back to your crack pipe.
If the GOP want to show us there good intentions they should simply have a voter registration drive.
It would prove once and for all they care about legitimate Americans voting and its not about suppressing the vote.
lost, would you rather fight the enemy here? The military says NO. There was WMDs, even the sex predator clinton said so and ALL the dems. The world knew they were ther because he had used them on HIS own people. One of his top generals said they were ther and went to demascus syria before we attacked. just a few things you wont here about in the "news". The military has been given rules of engagement which ties one hand behind their backs. Turn 'em loose and get it over with. We should have been out of there YEARS ago. Where were you when the democRATS demonized bush calling him outrageous names and basically wanting him and cheney dead. WHERE were you?? Screw the rats in office. They ARE just a bunch of rats!
DO YOU REMEMBER 911?? Kick the rats OUT!
Spencer,
No that doesn't happen and I've worked at our polling place in town that has 8 wards. I see, few if any, Hispanic voters even thought there are many working low paying jobs so businessmen and women can make bigger profits. Our local foundry has 6 guys with the same Social Security # and name. Do you think the business care? Not as long as they can find some poor soul who will work in a "Core Room" with temperatures close to 130 degrees that will take $9 an hour compared to the old worker who was not Hispanic and was paid $15! Greed does that both to keep people from voting and to make the biggest profits possible illegally.
I've gotten three pieces of mail in the last week from conservative groups soliciting me to be sure I am registered to vote, and asking me to pass the forms on to someone else if I am not. Liberals simply don't understand (or try to understand) the conservative mind. We are voter ID laws not because we want to suppress any legal group or voting block, but because the system as it is has no checks and balances and nothing to keep illegal aliens, felons, or non-registered voters from voting once or multiple times. We are not naive enough to believe it isn't happening on a large scale, given some of the examples of precincts having more votes cast than they have registered voters or seeing the dead continue to vote years after their funerals. Conservatives want FAIR elections where every vote cast is a valid and legal vote, and only those legally entitled to cast a vote are allowed to do so.
Liberals, on the other hand, rely on voting irregularities to win.
true - So during the Bush years, if you disagreed with Bush's policies and did not agree with him and called him "outrageous names" it was demonization. BUT when conservatives disagree with Obama and disagree with his policies and call him un-American and a secret Muslim and an enemy of the state and accuse him of hating America, they are just exercising their constitutional right to speak out against someone they don't agree with.
I respect your right to your opinion and to your adherence to your political philosophy although I strongly suspect that you do not respect mine. BUT I again state that just because you don't agree with someone does not make them the devil incarnate.
And for the record, I did not like Bush's policies, and I was opposed to many things that he did. However, I never questioned his loyalty to this country or considered him un-American. I just considered him someone that I strongly disagreed with.
And by the way, there is no connection between Iraq and 911.
Lee-1447916, don't death wish please. You are suspended for a week for violating rule # 5 of the Code of Honor.
starsailing
Some rt wing clown above said illegals are voting...........SHOW US THE NAMES< THE PEOPLE< YOUR SOURCE! YOU CAN"T!
I'd love to, but they are "undocumented"......
I ALSO disagreed with alot of what he did. Mainly he tried to pacify the left. He did try to bring the parties together. I dont have a problem with that to a point. The point is when you have to compromise your positions on what you were elected on. The one thing I do agree with the left on is when they are elected, come hell or high water they dont care what the right wants, they go forth with their agenda. They was elected and they could care less about the other side. BUT if you look at what THIS guy stands for and HAS done...It's horrible what he has done. I DO get harsh on here but its because "most" of the left starts out like that on here. You, on the other hand do not seem that way and I opologize for coming off harsh to you.
I think we should have gone into another country myself. Iran for one. The connection would be in funding of Al-Qaida.
True - Thank you. I appreciate that.
WRONG!
Truetexan
Please go away. You are giving us other Texans a really bad name.
Oh, and as for Democrats starting the KKK, you need to learn some history. Yes, the original KKK were probably Democrat (although I'm betting racism was something that local Repubs agreed with them). But times and party lines shift. LBJ lost the Southern Dems with the civil rights laws (as he knew he would). So the south simply moved parties. Sheesh.
As for when (or if) you voted in the past you could use your registration card (which, for those who don't know does not have a picture) or your ID if the address on the ID is the correct precinct AND your name is on the voter roll for that precinct. You have never needed both. And showing both didn't do anything.
I would not have as much an issue with the ID laws had they been implemented with enough time for older people to get an ID. My mother would have been disenfranchised because she had no photo ID. When we took her DL away due to eyesight she simply never needed one again. And getting a birth certificate for someone born in 1922 in a house in the country is pretty much impossible. Especially in a 4-6 month time frame. Even today, not everything is computerized.
Charles P. White, Former Indiana Secretary of State, 2011–2012 was convicted of voter fraud. As Secretary of State his job was to oversee the elections in Indiana. We had and have Voter ID laws here. Mr. White voted. He showed his ID at the poll. The problem was he did not live where his driver's license said he lived and entittled to vote at. He had his old address on his license because if he had his actual address he would not have been allowed to hold and get paid for another political job he held. He was convicted of voter fraud and fraud for excepting the pay he was not entitled to. Six counts in all. Voter ID is easily beaten. Especially since states allow people to renew their licenses on line and by mail. Most of the time they demand little or no proof you actually live where you say you live. In Indiana the clerks at the BMV make $10 a hour. Do you think that they get really good workers doing those jobs? The way they have to hire almost constantly the answer would be probably not. False documents are easily and not too expensively obtained by illegal aliens. Something like 30% of people that could cast a legal vote do so. Now they want us to worry about people voting that shouldn't? Everyone knows that voter fraud is mainly done by absentee ballot perpetrated by political party operatives and elected officials. You know the joke about in Chicago the dead vote and "vote early and vote often". So who is really committing voter fraud??? Voter fraud done in person is rare. The greatest voter fraud was perpetrated in Florida in 2000 and the GOP won. Hanging chads? Please. Suppressing the vote of your opponent is a much more effective tactic because you can to it in mass. Purge the voter lists of enough voters make it take a lot longer and cumbersome to vote and maybe the next election those people skipp the vote. Keep moving the polling place. At my current address I have voted in every election and the polling place moved 4 times in 12 years. Now the polling place isn't even in my district. Make it just a little more time consuming and a bother to register and people won't vote. My father was in his mid 80's had very poor eyesite and trouble standing along time. He was denyed his right to vote once because he could not see in the dark voting booth and the election officials would not let him fill out his ballot while sitting at a table in better light. He he protested. A election official threatened to have him arrested. The official was GOP my dad a registered Democrat.
dsb...you give Texans a bad name. YOU dont know anything about history with your post. I mean NOTHING! Did you read the article? I would say no. You arent interested in truth just spew B.S. with ZERO facts. When you TOOK her dl away you should have had enough common sense to get her a photo ID for her own good. You know checks and the like. And I give both when I vote because I WANT TO. Try reading my post...never mind your not interested in truth. Why dont you go away. The democRAT party has always been the party of hate. KKK, black panthers, etc. Always have been dems, always will be. Now go away you give real Texans a bad name.
Grover Dorkquist,
This is Just Lib Spin.
This is the GOP agenda of which they are so proud:
Actually Obama is taxing the poor tax on bottled water, cigarettes, tanning, alcohol and his health care bill now regulates what doctor you can see and what medication they can prescribe to you. You cannot pay out of your pocket to see a doctor either.
It is in fact the regulations by the Libs that are sending our jobs oversea thus making it harder for an American to bring home a decent wage. Once again you are wrong because the oil boom in North Dakota is paying wages between $65,000 and $250,000 a year depending on your roll. Plus North Dakota has an unemployment rate of 3% so you claim that Rep are trying to make people earn less is BS.
This is more BS Lib spin it is the Dem Lib that make regulation so stringent in the USA but will allow overseas companies to sell the same product without the regulations. So what advantage does an American company have if they don't move the only option is bankruptcy? You Lib friends at Apple are the best at outsourcing jobs to China so don't try and make it a left, right issue the only issue is the left regulates the American companies to death while letting the same product made in China come into the USA with no regulations on how it is made . Want to bring the jobs back to America change the Free trade agreements with overseas companies to make it fair to US companies. BUT AGAIN JUST LIB SPIN AND BS.
This is just a pure lie. Actually I know people on Medicaid and with private insurance my wife’s insurance has tripled since Obama's health care law came to be. Now I cannot get $3000 dollars from my medical spending account I can only get $2500 because of Obama's health care. Also it has been deemed a tax so as to #1 of you rant Obama has raised taxes on the poor and middle class. Under Medicaid you now have to go to their doctors you cannot see a doctor even if you pay out of pocket because one is not available under Medicaid. Plus they have cut in half the prescriptions they will now pay for. So Again Obama Not Rep. As most seniors us Medicaid or Medicare
Show us a link to all of these claims that you make. There is none unless from a blogger or the far Lib Left.
This is a LIE we all pay taxes and tax is what taxes are to be used for not to grow government even bigger. Since the rich pay more in taxes then you do they have actually contributed more to infrastructure then you? Also the businesses they own pay taxes which some of these taxes are to go to infrastructure. It is a nice try. If the Dem Lib didn't spend beyond its means then you would see more work in this area. Obama has spent $6.2 trillion that is $1.7 trillion more than Bush spent in 8 years but Obama spent it in just 4 years.
That is a lie they are for reducing pollution but also reducing the burden that over regulation has on the American business.
Speculation in the market place is the reason for the gas prices. We should not allow oil to be traded on speculation. Allowed By Dodd-Frank Dem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Dodd Rep actually want it Repealed http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-16/republicans-want-to-protect-wall-street-levin-says.html. As far as green energy goes Obama invested over and over trillions of wasted tax payer’s money. Anyone can make a green product that does not mean it works as good take the green cars you can only drive 70 miles before you have to recharge as of now there are not many recharging stations outside the cities so it is not a practical product plus it cost $60,000 dollars twice as much as a regular car so you would never see the $30,000 recovered in saved gas over the life of the car.http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/green-scam-80-of-green-energy-loans-went-to-obama-donors-19-companies-went-bust-video/
Evergreen Solar
SpectraWatt
Solyndra (received $535 million)
Beacon Power (received $43 million)
AES’ subsidiary Eastern Energy
Nevada Geothermal (received $98.5 million)
SunPower (received $1.5 billion)
First Solar (received $1.46 billion)
Babcock & Brown (an Australian company which received $178 million)
Ener1 (subsidiary EnerDel received $118.5 million)
Amonix (received 5.9 million)
The National Renewable Energy Lab
Fisker Automotive
Abound Solar (received $400 million)
Chevy Volt (taxpayers basically own GM)
Solar Trust of America
A123 Systems (received $279 million)
Willard & Kelsey Solar Group (received $6 million)
Johnson Controls (received $299 million)
Schneider Electric (received $86 million)
These arte Obama's bad investments with tax dollars notice most companies that he has given money to where top contributors to his 2008 campaign
Show me where Rep repress women it is actually Dem that do have you heard what they call the stronger Rep women and these women’s daughters. It is not suppressing a vote when you have to show I.D. you have to show I.D. to get a job, to see a doctor, to open a bank account, to visit another country, to get welfare, to get Social Security. So this is just fear mongering propaganda by the Lib Left. Afraid that illegal and those that are dead and not off the ballots will no longer be able to vote. Voting should be no different if you want to vote you show an I.D. It does not repress minority voting
Show me an example of this because this does not even make sense. As far as guns it is a Constitutional right for the purpose of on being able to defend their selves against a tyrannical government and so the government is not the only ones with guns. As far as religion you can believe anything you want in this country you just make up BS then write it typical lib. The Lib's keep trying to take these rights from us with your bigger government. What does FREEDOM MEAN TO YOU? Please tell me that.
This is what you Libs on the Left do not the Rep. Obama killed an American citizen suspected of terrorism. Now as this may seem fine to you he was an American and therefore had rights under our Constitution but Obama killed him and he did not have a right to do so as an America the suspected terrorist had a right to due process through our court system. If it can happen to him it can happen to any of us. http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/10/news/la-pn-senate-democrat-challenges-obama-on-killing-american-terror-suspects-20120208. This is not the attempt of fear it is the kind of thing Obama is doing and all should fear.
you already said this above and it is still a lie. Why do you say voter suppression because states are starting to require I.D.'s like I said above you need an I.D. for everything in this day and age. You cannot get welfare without I.D., no Social Security, you cannot open a bank account you must have one by law in most states just to be out in public incase a police officer asks for one, you taled about the Rep doing nothing but fear mongering but here you are doing exactally that. You are trying to instill fear in people. Most intelagent people will see right through your lyies as most sates that have passed these laws have also passed with it laws that make the I.D.'s free to peple and transportation to get the I.D.'s.
This why to support the GOP Because many of the GOP governor have gotten there sates out of defaces and now have a surpluses as to be able to help more people but Dem states like CA and WA still are unable to balance a budget see the Libs don't want to speak of this. The mess that the USA is in has only been made worse by electing a man that was nothing more than a freshman senator and before that just a community organizer were most for the events he organized ended in failures. Not hard to see since take office he has done nothing he said that he would do, he said he would bridge the gap in Congress it is time to work together to get America back on the right track but he has only divided the Congress more as well as the American people my fear is that with his radical agenda America will be transformed into some socialist country and we all see how that is going in Europe. http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/scott-walker-swing-state-job-growth-is-a-real-problem-for-romney.php
Bogus... Currently, only US citizens can vote in US elections.
Bill,
"many of the GOP governor have gotten there sates out of defaces and now have a surpluses as to be able to help more people but Dem states like CA and WA still are unable to balance a budget"
Your concluding statement is disingenuous. States with Democratic governors have also gotten their states out of deficits and are projecting surpluses this year. And states across the South - all Republican - are still unable to balance a budget. The budget situation varies state by state and is not necessarily a result of the party running the state.
And by the way, CA has had more Republican Governors than Democratic Governors over the last 25 years and we are still a mess.
You have no evidence to prove that. It is clear that its intent is to defraud eligible voters or why would it turn in fraudulent registrations? In states such as Colorado, where everyone can request a mail-in ballot, MoveOn and ACORN ARE fraudulently stealing elections.
RI Mommy - Democrats and Unions have been using your recommendations for years. Did you think you just thought of it? (It seems very unlikely that you would ever have an original thought.) Suggest that you pull your head out of the sand and check your own lack of facts.
OMG this certainly has struck a nerve with supporters of both sides of the aisle. If ALEC is so great, why does it operate under the wire, behind the scenes, secretly?
If voter fraud is such a concern, why was the recount of the Gore/Bush election stopped and all of the GOP applauded that decision?
The lack of FACTS surrounding the GOP take on their platform issues is astounding to me as it should EVERY American.
Why would ANYONE, left or right, want to suppress votes by making it harder to vote when in actuality, voter fraud is a very tiny threat to our voting rights?
arguesforsport:
100% false. Nowhere in the U.S. legal code is there any law against not possessing a government-issued ID. Not having an ID is perfectly legal, and no grounds upon which to deny any U.S. citizen their constitutionally-guaranteed right to vote.
Ah, but how do you guarantee or even know if someone is a US citizen prior to voting without some form of identification? That's the 8000lb gorilla that the liberals don't want to address. The only reason the liberals don't want voter ID is because they want the dead and illegals to be able to vote democrat.
Most recently NBC is becoming more of an Obama campaign ad and less and less of a news organization. They were always biased but used to make a pretense of being a news outlet. Now they are nothing but a liberal rag, a propaganda machine and they're not even good at that since true propaganda is less open.
mygirl - How do you guarantee those sending in absentee ballots are U.S. citizens?
And why does the GOP not care about that issue? Hmm?
I think every one of you who posted in opposition to voter I.D. laws are mentally deficient. EVERYONE wins when our elections are participated by people who are American citizens and can prove it. Our election system will ALWAYS be suspect so long as anyone can show up with an apt lease and a utility bill and claim to be anyone they want and vote.
If you think voting fraud isn't an issue, you are an absolute moroon. The entire process is set up to prohibit voting fraud from being documented....if you don't need to show a photo I.D. to vote, how can a poll worker verify that the person voting is who they claim to be?
Additionally, we don't NEED to "have a problem" to enact laws to ensure one doesn't develop so that whole "they're solving a problem that doesn't exist" nonsense is specious at best.
We live in an age of unprecedented identity theft...millions of people a year have their identities stolen or compromised. To think that voter fraud is immune to identity theft is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.
Absentee ballots should be restricted to military personnel and government employees who are stationed overseas such as State Dept employees, etc. If you decide that you want to take a vacation during the election, tough for you.
On a side note, if you're so stupid that you can't come up with $20 every four years for an I.D., we probably don't need you to be voting anyway as you would undoubtedly not have any relevant ideas as to what direction the country should be headed or who should be resonsible for getting us there.
this lools like a scene out of the middle east where imans do not want to give up their power and will do anything to keep that power.
also like hitler did, tell the people what they wanted to hear.get into office,then gradually take over the rights of the people to control how they will vote or in this case not vote.
also,there is no killing off of people like hitler did.just make sure that you can deny people the right to vote.
Denying people the right to vote? That's just stupid. You can't function in today's society without photo ID. You can't open a checking account. You can't cash a check at most places. You can't get a loan. You can't fly on an airplane. You can't use a credit card for purchases at merchants who verify the I.D. of the cardholder. You can't get a job. You can't purchase a firearm. You can't purchase alcohol or tobacco. You can't drive. You can't pick up prescriptions for controlled substances. The list goes on and on and on of things that require photo I.D.
Electing the leaders of our country? Nah, you shouldn't have to prove that you are who you say you are. Are liberals concerned that a fair and legitimate election system might hurt their candidates?
kg14051 -- Frankly, I cannot remember the last time I showed my photo ID. Haven't cashed a check in years. Nor got a loan. Never ask for photo id with credit card. You do not live in the same kind of world as some people, so stop trying trying to act like you know what everyone's life is like.
kg, oh yes you can if one is old and doesn't frequent bars, liquor stores, drive, climb on airplanes and born at home, or need to open a bank account. American Citizens have the right to vote, and there is no voter fraud.
kg14051,
You say, " You can't function in today's society without photo ID. You can't open a checking account. You can't cash a check at most places. You can't get a loan. You can't fly on an airplane. You can't use a credit card for purchases at merchants who verify the I.D. of the cardholder. You can't get a job. You can't purchase a firearm. You can't purchase alcohol or tobacco. You can't drive. You can't pick up prescriptions for controlled substances"..
Did it ever occur to you that the poor, older minority groups, and the young kids aren't cashing checks; they have no money. They are not getting loans; they don't qualify. They are not making purchases on credit cards; they do not have them. They have no drivers license; they don't drive because they don't have a car, or are too old to drive? They dont' have health insurance; therefore they are not purchasing controlled substances.
Every, and I mean every study done has shown such a minimal amoiut of in person voter fraud, these laws serve no purpose other than to disinfranchise those that vote more for the Democratic ideals. I read where there was a study conducted by a non-partisian group, who studied every election over the last 12 years, and they found only 10 cases of in-person voter fraud.
So, for you to pontificate about the dire need for these new voter id laws, is absolutely ridiculous. If you believe that we believe you are sincere in your motives, you're insane..Well,.........
And yet millions do. Not everyone had to just recently open a checking account or lives their lives on Facebook. I would bet you are young and have no notion whatsoever of what life was like before the internet or Photo ID.
How long do you think Photo ID has been a requirement to even open a bank account?
How do you think people who don't have it voted into 2008?
And what good is photo ID if it can be faked anyway? And since repeated studies, even those commissioned by Republicans like Bush when was president, have clearly demonstrated that there is virtually no voter fraud, what is the sudden motive behind all of this? Who does it serve?
A driver's license, a bank account, buying booze or smokes...none of those things are a constitutionally guaranteed right...none of those things were fought for years and nobody died trying to get them. But people did do those things for the right to vote.
You need to knock off the arrogance and learn some history. Do you even know what the 1964 Voting Rights Act was for?
Opening a checking account? Not a guaranteed right. Cashing a check? Not a guaranteed right. Getting a loan? Not a guaranteed right. Flying on an airplane? Not a guaranteed right. Using a credit card? Not a guaranteed right. Getting a job? Not a guaranteed right. Purchasing alcohol or tobacco? Not a guaranteed right. Driving? Not a guaranteed right. Picking up prescriptions for controlled substances? Not a guaranteed right. Indeed, kg, the list of things that are NOT guaranteed under the constitution goes on and on because they are PRIVILEGES, not RIGHTS. Voting is a RIGHT, therefore requiring people to obtain a picture ID when they have little to no means of obtaining the picture ID constitutes an undue burden on these citizens, thus denying them the basic RIGHT to vote, which is unconstitutional. Only a right-wing judge (or a right-wing voter) who sees the writing on the wall for his primitive, xenophobic, misogynistic political party (or are you unaware that the African-American and Hispanic minorities who aren't too crazy about Republican policies are fast becoming the majority in this country?) would find these voter ID laws constitutional.
kg14051
Don't be naive. There is a tremendously large population in this country that gets by without photo identification. The idea that photo I.D. be mandatory for so many things is a rather new concept considering the history of our country.
The elderly don't require flights, alcohol, firearms, credit cards, cars, etc. THE LIST GOES ON. The elderly lived in a time when the conventional wisdom of the day was honesty and community. Never did they think that our society would regress into a some culture of deceit and divide where you would have to pull out a photo I.D. at every turn.
Add to that the poor and young who also DO NOT require most of those things listed above.
Time to leave the Mc-bubble, doncha think?
So what, mklnd? Congratulations? The people who DO those things, and more, DO have to have photo I.D. Why is everyone so afraid of making sure that people who cast their votes for our elected officials are legal residents of their districts?
Wow, Thanks team!
I paused while writing this and you guys were on him like flies on $hi+.
Root out the close minded republi-bots!
Nice!
Why are those on the left so opposed to voter ID? Are you afraid that you can't vote early and vote often any longer because you cannot "vouch" for people?
Because it's discrimination. Nothing else. You're being naive again. Big surprise.
As mentioned in a previous thread:
Why isn't the special interest group who is initiated this crap also advocating (or funding) solutions for said people to acquire photo i.d.'s? All they want to do is make it harder for them to vote. They offer no solutions, just barricades.
I'm ignorant and naive? It is YOU that needs to pull your heads out. Voting is a guaranteed right (unless those rights are revoked-see many convicted felons), but that does not mean that reasonable safeguards cannot be put in place, just like anything else. Why are so many of you ok with the idea of voting fraud?
If you want to vote, maintain some form of photo identification. The state will help you do it. It's not as complicated as many of you useful idiots want it to be.
I am a registered indy who is a 48 year old white lady and the only time I ever have 2 show my ID is when I'm flying or checking into a hotel where I have used my CC to hold the reservation...and then there's the occasional traffic stop...LOL...get real peeps we aren't buying your REPUBLICAN BS about fraud....u want to keep the poor and disenfranchised from voting and u will make up any crap to try and justify it....SMFH!!!!
As I see it this is nothing more than a debate between those who want to be elected by American Citizens in a fair election and those who want to be elected by illegals and fraudsters.
Gil-2872519 where is your PROOF that anyone is being elected by illegals and fraudsters????
I'll check back and see how u are doing on this assignment....LOL!!!
Hmmmm and I thought the republicans wanted a smaller less intrusive government..oh wait that's right....they only proclaim that's what they want when the BIGGER INTRUSIVE Government benefits ONLY Them and no one else!!!!
The right to bear arms is also guaranteed, so why do you have to provide I.D. to purchase a gun? I have been asked to show my I.D. three times in the last week. Why would anyone want to live without an I.D.? When they find a dead body without an I.D. they are listed as a John or Jane Doe. So tell me why any legal U.S. citizen will lose the ability to vote. My grandparents obtained state I.D.s when they stopped driving because they thought they might need them.
As for voter fraud, how many cases have we had that we don't know about? We've had people in past elections who have received votes from the dead.
How the hell is it discrimination? The law applies to EVERYBODY, not just registered democrats. Stop being so hysterical and think like a conservative for once - with logic, not emotion.
like anything else Diamond60 it needs to be SHOWN that there is a problem with voter fraud BEFORE u can put something like this into place....just because peeps say there is voter fraud doesn't make it so....the burden is for folks such as yourself who want to change voting laws...I have been hearing this CRAP from the Republicans for YEARS now and yet wow there is NEVER any evidence to support it.....get your head's out of ur a$$e$ before u smother yourselves on this one.....
I don't get why this is such problem.
For example, I own shares of various stocks. The companies have my name, address and SSN for tax purposes. Every year I get emails notifying me of annual stockholders meetings and online forms for voting for, against or abstaining on various matters, ranging from appointment of board members to proposed amendments to the governing regulations of the company. I vote electronically, entering my PIN, make my choices, hit enter, review and hit confirm. Aside from reading the proxy or other materials before voting, it takes me all of a minute to cast my vote. And I do this many times a year.
Why we cannot do the same for elections I do not understand. Those without computer access could still vote with paper like absentee ballots. And there really is no good reason for limiting voting hours, seriously. There are plenty of good people who are willing and able (e.g. retirees) to spend a shift as an election worker. My grandmother worked the polls (getting up at 4 a.m., going home around 11 p.m.) until she was 80 - and loved doing it, would have continued had her eyesight permitted.
If there were a real valid reason for the ID to vote people would not be so against it but We all know this is just to suppress votes on the democratic side, why is it that all of a sudden the REPUBLICANS want this change, us Democrats already know the answer to that one, voter suppression, can't win so they have to cheat, bunch of pussies.
Funny, I have been asked to show my ID more in this last week, then I have in years. I see no problem in it. No ID, Can't vote.
@skyparrot
Perhaps if you libs would cut your puppet strings you'd realize that NOT having an ID will not infringe upon anyones right to vote. People who apparently have no life can still vote via absentee ballot, no ID required, and since these people you refer to probably have agorophobia that's likely how they vote now.
@kg14051
Hi! How are you? I hope you are well.
I wanted to correct a few things for you...
I have gone on 7 years? There abouts, without ever needing to use my license. In that time I have gotten 2 loans (including a car loan) and opened 2 checking accounts, one with Bank of America who supports this "group" and who I no longer support, and one with my Credit Union. They needed IDs but not Photo IDs. I had my SS card and they needed a bill in my name sent to my house. That was it! Oh, 2 year ago I had to renew my license, I guess you can say I needed it then.
I drive to work every day, I use my debit/credit card all the time to pay for everything. I buy booze (I don't smoke though) and I do go to bars to play poker with my friends. You don't need a photo ID. Heck there are still 1-2 states that allow non-photo drivers licenses.
Grover.... You are an uninformed hate spewer. Love your word choices (shows the tolerance & acceptance of yours for those with differing opinions). In fact, FACT key word here - much of what you spewed above is inaccurate! For starters, it is real simple to say take a women's rights, birthcontrol, etc... NO, the government should NOT be able to force PRIVATE hospitals to PAY FOR something that violates their religious beliefs... but it is interesting how you CHOSE to leave out a few key words to make this NOT factual in context along with your numerous other INACCURATE MIS-STATEMENTS about the GOP. But to get back onto the issue at hand...
This requests for VALID photo ID infringes on NO ONE. EVERYONE can get proper ID, at low cost or NO COST - it is called a state ID for those who are older and no longer need a driver's license. The ONLY group that can't get it (& shouldn't be able to) is an "illegal". Notice the word - illegal. It is illegal for them to be in this country yet they are & we have Obama who allows them to remain, referring to it as a "deference" - NICE TIMING OBAMA. This violates our country's LAW. The President allows this - 2yr reprieve - if they meet certain criteria, which is completely LAUGHABLE. Why? Because the very nature of being undocumented means one can NOT prove all of the criteria and those that crafted these FAKE criteria measures, know this. How can an UNDOCUMENTED person who is close to the age of 30, 31 - PROVE (he/she is UNDOCUMENTED - you know no proof, no papers, etc...) that he/she is not really 34, 35. OBAMA allowed this deferral and masquerade for his personal political gain. They have not followed the law, saw their parent(s) violate the law, saw our so called President look the other way, why would they NOT attempt to vote - no one is going to stop them if they don't need valid photo ID!
Am I suddenly supposed to believe they are going to RESPECT & FOLLOW the law of our land? Obama knows this gives him an edge because he is assisting them by allowing this reprieve.
We need ID for numerous things in this country, driving, check cashing, credit card purchase confirmation, travel, etc... This is a legitimate requirement that has been years in the making. The RELEVANCE to now is OBAMA needing this requirement to not pass/go away in order to be re-elected.
No self respecting US Citizen should care that they have to show valid ID in order to vote, which is NOT an inherent right but something between a right and a privilege.
GROW UP and use factual information not selectively remove key words & phrases to make your false POINTS!
Floretta -
There are multiple examples such as yours that could be used today to capture every ones vote - The main issue is that no one wants to make it simple. They want to disenfranchise as many individuals as possible. This election is going to be worst than the Bush-Gore election all thanks to the Tea Party/Republicans.
Voter fraud??...you want proof???
Wisconsin's recall vote.. 120% voter turnout... how do you account for 20% more turnout then voters?
here is the funny thing about LAW.... It is not broken until you get CAUGHT.
Once this law goes into affect many WILL GET CAUGHT..... by the bus loads... (union bus loads)
The "right to vote" is for REGISTERED LEGAL CITIZENS of the USA....show your proof that you are a citizen of the USA, and of your voting district, or STFU.
The GOP/Tea Tools are a bunch of saboteurs, vandals, and lobby whores.
The lack of an ID card doesn't make you a non-citizen and shouldn't prevent you from voting. I haven't been asked for ID for years except for airlines and car rental. I have applied for(and received) mortgage loans, picked up prescriptions from pharmacies and charged lots of stuff on credit cards. Maybe I just look like a trustworthy Democrat. P.S. Until 2000 I was a trustworthy looking Republican.
Chosyn -- What was the result of voting where the turnout was "120%"? As I recall Walker won that vote. Are you accusing the Walker camp of vote fraud?
And Who won in Wisconsin....with all that Special Interest Groups Money?...Are you sure it wasn't
the bought and paid for teabaggers voting illegally to keep that Reb/Bagger slime in office?
Sounds like a plot to me...Oh no wait, that would be your dribble.
The Queenie @ 2.16: Where is your poof that it is NOT occurring? Asking someone to prove a negative is asinine.
I am sure you are relying on studies based upon the number of people caught. Retailers, know from their inventories that there are very far more shoplifters out there than are caught. In comparison to the number of actual thefts the number caught is minimal. Polling places do not have inventories, so they have no idea how many people get away with illegal voting. Thus the studies you are relying on are fatally flawed.
I take it that you oppose retailers having video cameras and mirrors because, if they didn't, fewer shoplifters would be caught and you could back up your argument with "see there are very few shoplifters so, there should not be cameras and mirrors".
The easier it is to illegally vote and stuff ballot boxes, the more likely it is to happen. Tightening up the system might catch more people and change your flawed methodology, but I doubt it as you will use the "deterrent effect" to say see "I was right all along"
Goodbye.
Gil....you did not answer her question....yes....do run along and play outside.......it is a nice day.
Shoplifting ...equating voting to shop lifting...?........All studies show only 10 cases of in person voter ID fraud.. Yes.....proven cases where Voters were caught...so on your planet....we just make up a hjigher number because....of shoplifing...? Ya Gil....just ignore facts when they get in your way!
Sorry that you are incapable of understanding the methodology used, and clearly explained, in a "study" to which I think you are referring. The fact is that there is no methodology available to determine the extent of illegal voting. There is, however, a reasonable methodology, (inventory) to determine the actual amount of shoplifting. It is for that reason that I used it as an example. Do you understand "example"?
You are right it is a nice day -- go play in your sand box. or better yet, think in your sand box.
@starsailing
Wow, I didn't think even you were too dense to understand such a simple comparison. Just because X number of people are caught committing a crime of any sort doesn't mean that is the total number of people who committed that crime. Shoplifting is a prime example because store inventories clearly show that MANY more people get away with it than are caught. Imagine how bad it would be if stores made little effort to prevent shoplifting.
WRONG!
Well...since our pesky U. S. Constitution empowers the states to conduct Elections in accordance with "the legislature thereof" (Article I, Sect 4 & Article II, Sect 1), the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld the right of the states to require Voter I.D's - Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, 533 U.U. 181 (April 28, 2008)
Justice Stevens: "...The first is the interest in deterring and detecting voter fraud. The State has a valid interest in participating in a nationwide effort to improve and modernize election procedures that have been criticized as antiquated and inefficient."
Also from Justice Stevens: "It remains true, however, that flagrant examples of such fraud in other parts of the country have been documented throughout this Nation's history by respected historians and journalists, that occasional examples have surfaced in recent years, and that Indiana's own experience with fraudulent voting in the 2003 Democratic primary for East Chicago Mayor - though perpetrated using absentee ballots and not in-person fraud - demonstrate that not only is the risk of voter fraud real but that it could affect the outcome of a close election."
QUESTION: Why is it that the Libs call requiring an I.D to vote is a supression of a person's Constitutional RIGHT (to vote) in an election that effects the lives and welfare of millions of people, but, have no problem whatsoever requiring background checks, registration, I.D., waiting periods and restrictions, for someone that wants to own a firearm, which is also a RIGHT under that same Constitution?
Jed - I notice you didn't correct your earlier lie in light of the above facts.
Nate Silver - statistician extraordinaire at FiveThirtyEight.com, on the effect of voter ID laws:
And here's the chart:
Estimated Effect of Voter Law Changes 2008-2012
Backwhiner......so ignoring facts is just part of your makeup huh? Can't deal with facts....you just make something up and support people who like you ignore facts.......Too bad you are not as concerned about repubs and corporations buying voter suppression laws with repub politicians. Notice it is only repubs creating laws to prevent the elderly, the young, the disabled, the poor from voting. You want the money in Social security invested in wallstreet for the greedy rich to steal. You want the corporations to privatize medicare and medicaid for the greedy corporations to steal while killing health care for everyone but the rich!
BTW....your daddy Mittster made these comments in interview with National Review the other day. You had a problem with the FACTS I reported on what Romney said...
Secondly, the so-called offshore account in the Cayman Islands, for instance, is an account established by a U.S. firm to allow foreign investors to invest in U.S. enterprises and not be subject to taxes outside of their own jurisdiction. So in many instances, the investments in something of that nature are brought back into the United States."
Offshore accounts like his, created to avoid paying taxes....and Romney's problem is...He is not a foreign investor..he lives in the good ol USA! So he keeps offshore accounts pretending to be foreign investor! How American...or should I say typical republicon!
Obama/Biden 2012
Actually, no. It doesn't apply to all those Republicans who vote by absentee ballot.
Why not?
My mother would have not been able to vote here in Texas dispute to this law. She was born in a house in the country. Getting a birth certificate would have been impossible in the time allowed, if at all. She had no drivers license because we took it away when her eyesight went south. She never had to show an ID to write a check because she lived in a small town. She had a checking account for over 50 years with the same bank. She passed away a couple of years ago but there are still many older people alive today who are in the same boat.
She was born here, lived here and paid taxes, was a citizen and yet she would not have been allowed to vote and that's wrong. If we truly need a voter ID law then sufficient time must be allocated to overcome the issues people have getting one. But many states impacted the laws with insufficient time and refused to allocate extra resources to ensure that no one is disenfranchised. Ask yourself why the rush before THIS specific election. If you are truthful with yourself the answer is evident.
Gil....you do have a methodology....not using facts. The studies have all shown in person voter id fraud does not exist! 10 cases in the nation since 2000. State by state, when all records are checked in studies, it does not exist. You create a fathom illegal alien, busloads of them, and you imagine in your mind it might happen. Fcats prove we don't use your imagination/methodology because you want to.
Monsters under your bed...gonna getcha! Monsters in your closet...gonna getcha.....methodology....you think there are monsters under your bed there they might be there...create a lwa outlawing monsters under your bed!
BTW, I checked your room, I yelled out "Any monsters under Gil's bed?" They answered ..."NOPE"
BackCountry: I am glad to see that someone on this thread knows basic logic.
My grandfather would not have been able to vote either if he was still alive. He was born in a very small town in Nebraska in the early part of the last century, and there was a fire that destroyed several buildings in the town, including the building that held many official documents including birth certificates. My grandfather never had his birth certificate or a copy of it.
Here are the activities of that well-known Right Wing group trying to "steal" elections:
Yup...those low-down, no good, dishonest Republicans, can't trust them in an election...
Please, you libs, show us more of the Republicans attempting voting fraud and trying to steal elections.
State
Year
Details
AR
1998
A contractor with ACORN-affiliated Project Vote was arrested for falsifying about 400 voter registration cards.
CO
2005
Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury for submitting false voter registrations.
2004
An ACORN employee admitted to forging signatures and registering three of her friends to vote 40 times.
CT
2008
The New York Post reported that ACORN submitted a voter registration card for a 7-year-old Bridgeport girl. Another 8,000 cards from the same city will be scrutinized for possible fraud.
FL
2009
In September, 11 ACORN workers were accused of forging voter registration applications in Miami-Dade County during the last election. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the state attorney’s office scoured hundreds of suspicious applications provided by ACORN and found 197 of 260 contained personal ID information that did not match any living person.
2008
Election officials in Brevard County have given prosecutors more than 23 suspect registrations from ACORN. The state's Division of Elections is also investigating complaints in Orange and Broward Counties.
2004
A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesman said ACORN was “singled out” among suspected voter registration groups for a 2004 wage initiative because it was “the common thread” in the agency’s fraud investigations.
IN
2008
Election officials in Indiana have thrown out more than 4,000 ACORN-submitted voter registrations after finding they had identical handwriting and included the names of many deceased Indianans, and even the name of a fast food restaurant.
MI
2008
Clerks in Detroit found a "sizeable number of duplicate and fraudulent [voter] applications" from the Michigan branch of ACORN. Those applications have been turned over to the U.S. Attorney's office for investigation.
2004
The Detroit Free Press reported that “overzealous or unscrupulous campaign workers in several Michigan counties are under investigation for voter-registration fraud, suspected of attempting to register nonexistent people or forging applications for already-registered voters.” ACORN-affiliate Project Vote was one of two groups suspected of turning in the documents.
MO
2008
Nearly 400 ACORN-submitted registrations in Kansas City have been rejected due to duplication or fake information.
2007
Four ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City for charges including identity theft and filing false registrations during the 2006 election.
2006
Eight ACORN employees in St. Louis were indicted on federal election fraud charges. Each of the eight faces up to five years in prison for forging signatures and submitting false information.
2003
Of 5,379 voter registration cards ACORN submitted in St. Louis, only 2,013 of those appeared to be valid. At least 1,000 are believed to be attempts to register voters illegally.
MN
2004
During a traffic stop, police found more than 300 voter registration cards in the trunk of a former ACORN employee, who had violated a legal requirements that registration cards be submitted to the Secretary of State within 10 days of being filled out and signed.
NC
2008
County elections officials have sent suspicious voter registration applications to the state Board of Elections. Many of the applications had similar or identical names, but with different addresses or dates of birth.
2004
North Carolina officials investigated ACORN for submitting fake voter registration cards.
NM
2008
Prosecutors are investigating more than 1,100 ACORN-submitted voter registration cards after a county clerk found them to be fraudulent. Many of the cards included duplicate names and slightly altered personal information.
2005
Four ACORN employees submitted as many as 3,000 potentially fraudulent signatures on the group’s Albuquerque ballot initiative. A local sheriff added: “It’s safe to say the forgery was widespread.”
2004
An ACORN employee registered a 13-year-old boy to vote. Citing this and other examples, New Mexico State Representative Joe Thompson stated that ACORN was “manufacturing voters” throughout New Mexico.
NV
2009
Nevada authorities indicted ACORN on 26 counts of voter registration fraud and 13 counts of illegally compensating canvassers. ACORN provided a bonus compensation program called “Blackjack” or “21+” for any canvasser who registered more than 20 voters per shift, which is illegal under Nevada law.
2008
Nevada state authorities raided ACORN's Las Vegas headquarters as part of a task force investigation of election fraud. Fraudulent registrations included players from the Dallas Cowboys.
OH
2008
ACORN activists gave Ohio residents cash and cigarettes in exchange for filling out voter registration card, according to the New York Post. Some voters claim to have registered dozens of times, and one man says he signed up on 72 cards.
2007
A man in Reynoldsburg was indicted on two felony counts of illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote in two separate counties.
2004
A grand jury indicted a Columbus ACORN worker for submitting a false signature and false voter registration form. In Franklin County, two ACORN workers submitted what the director of the board of election supervisors called “blatantly false” forms. In Cuyahoga County, ACORN and its affiliate Project Vote submitted registration cards that had the highest rate of errors for any voter registration group.
PA
2009
Seven ACORN workers in the Pittsburgh area were indicted for submitting falsified voter registration forms. Six of the seven were also indicted for registering voters under an illegal quota system.
2008
State election officials have thrown out 57,435 voter registrations, the majority of which were submitted by ACORN. The registrations were thrown out after officials found "clearly fraudulent" signatures, vacant lots listed as addresses, and other signs of fraud.
2008
An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail.
2004
Reading’s Director of Elections received calls from numerous individuals complaining that ACORN employees deliberately put inaccurate information on their voter registration forms. The Berks County director of elections said voter fraud was “absolutely out of hand,” and added: “Not only do we have unintentional duplication of voter registration but we have blatant duplicate voter registrations.” The Berks County deputy director of elections added that ACORN was under investigation by the Department of Justice.
TX
2008
In Harris County, nearly 10,000 ACORN-submitted registrations were found to be invalid, including many with clearly fraudulent addresses or other personal information.
2008
ACORN turned in the voter registration form of David Young, who told reporters “The signature is not my signature. It’s not even close.” His social security number and date of birth were also incorrect.
VA
2005
In 2005, the Virginia State Board of Elections admonished Project Vote and ACORN for turning in a significant number of faulty voter registrations. An audit revealed that 83% of sampled registrations that were rejected for carrying false or questionable information were submitted by Project Vote. Many of these registrations carried social security numbers that exist for other people, listed non-existent or commercial addresses, or were for convicted felons in violation of state and federal election law.
In a letter to ACORN, the State Board of Elections reported that 56% of the voter registration applications ACORN turned in were ineligible. Further, a full 35% were not submitted in a timely manner, as required by law. The State Board of Elections also commented on what appeared to be evidence of intentional voter fraud. "Additionally,” they wrote, “information appears to have been altered on some applications where information given by the applicant in one color ink has been scratched through and re-entered in another color ink. Any alteration of a voter registration application is a Class 5 Felony in accordance with § 24.2-1009 of the Code of Virginia."
WA
2007
Three ACORN employees pleaded guilty, and four more were charged, in the worst case of voter registration fraud in Washington state history. More than 2,000 fraudulent voter registration cards were submitted by the group during a voter registration drive.
WI
2008
At least 33,000 ACORN-submitted registrations in Milwaukee have been called into question after it was found that the organizations had been using felons as registration workers, in violation of state election rules. Two people involved in the ongoing Wisconsin voter fraud investigation have been charged with felonies.
2004
The district attorney’s office investigated seven voter registration applications Project Vote employees filed in the names of people who said the group never contacted them. Former Project Vote employee Robert Marquise Blakely told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he had not met with any of the people whose voter registration applications he signed, “an apparent violation of state law,” according to the paper.
Jed - ACORN employees were paid by the number of people that they registered; so, is it any surprise that there were cases of dishonest employees who did some of the things that you described above to make more money?
But all of your examples involve ACORN, and you failed to mention the Florida Republican Secretary of State wiping thousands and thousands of valid Florida voters off the voter rolls in 2000 on the basis that they were all convicted felons. This action by the Secretary of State effectively disenfranchised thousands and thousands of Florida residents (disproportionately African-American), and it turned out after the fact that maybe 5 percent of the people wiped off the voter rolls were actually felons.
Well THIS is funny! In 2000 the libs were POSITIVE that some kind of voter fraud happened in Florida; but this year there's only 10 cases since 2000??? Really, you CAN'T have it both ways! btw, I think you are paranoid for seeing some kind of big evil conspiracy behind everything the GOP does - it's really pathetic. And dreaming up these scenarios where the elderly (who are more likely to vote GOP, btw) might not be able to get an ID for whatever reason, well that's pretty laughable, too. Last time I voted I had to show my voter registration card - BIG DEAL!!! You act like it's impossible to get a driver's license, yet thousands do it every day, so I fail to see how this in any way will disenfranchise anyone. Admit it, you just don't like it because it's a GOP idea, not because there's anything wrong with it.
While cross referencing Drivers Licenses with voter list each state has found thousands of immigrents registered to vote that had no right to do so! Under the liberal guidance now in place, they were all found to be just mistakes and states were ordered to cease and desist!
The liberals want no fair elections! In the custom of Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall, anything is fair in politics!
T Bourlon - There are different types of voter fraud, and Voter ID would not have stopped what happened in Florida.
All voter ID laws do is stop Tom Smith from going to a poll and saying I am Tom Jones and voting as Tom Jones. This particular type of voter fraud is almost non-existent.
The one thing that sticks in my mind is why now? How did all the voters go and vote for a century or better without needing I.D. Please ask yourself why is it so important now? Could it be the fact that the president elect was elected by a class of people who would have the most problems getting I.D's because of the cost. No matter how inexpensive some may tout ID's to be for those living on a fixed income or very little income the 40 or so dollars it cost to get the ID is a hit. Get your heads out of the sand the fact that it has come up now make me shake my head and say the movers and money makers are trying to stick it to the poor again.
Starsailing: @ 2.44
"The studies have all shown in person voter id fraud does not exist".
Thank you for supporting the cause for voter ID.
As to methodology, return to BackCountry @ 2.36, he explained it at a more elementary level that I. Just maybe, if you read him three or four times you might understand the methodology problem with your position.
BTW: From reading your last comment @ 2.44 I doubt that you even know what "methodology" is or means. I think I have been arguing with an idiot.
Farewell !!
The Blog story lays facts out....rt wingers can't handle facts...the facts show reopubs are creating voter suppression laws to stop anyone who votes against repubs. FACT!
mklnd - But you have an ID, don't you? Apparently your welfare and union pension checks are auto-deposit or you'd show an ID at the bank. You should get out more often, because just like kg14051, most of us have to show ID frequently.
HOME SALES TAX - BEGINS 2013
When does your home become part of your health care? After 2012!
Your vote counts big time in 2012, make sure you and all your friends and family know about this!
HOME SALES TAX I thought you might find this interesting.The National Association of Realtors is all over this and working to get it repealed, -- before it takes effect. But, I am very pleased we aren't the only ones who know about this ploy to steal billions from unsuspecting homeowners. How many realtors do you think will vote Democratic in 2012? Did you know that if you sell your house after 2012 you will pay a 3.8% sales tax on it? That's $3,800 on a $100,000 home, etc. When did this happen? It's in the health care bill, -- and it goes into effect in 2013. Why 2013? Could it be so that it doesn't come to light until after the 2012 elections? So, this is 'Obama change you can believe in'? Under the new health care bill all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% sales tax. If you sell a $400,000 home, there will be a $15,200 tax. This bill is set to screw the retiring generation, -- who often downsize their homes. Does this make your November, 2012 vote more important? Oh, you weren't aware that this was in the ObamaCare bill? Guess what; you aren't alone! There are more than a few members of Congress that weren't aware of it either. You can check this out for yourself at:http://www.gop.gov/blog/10/04/08/obamacare-flatlines-obamacare-taxes-home
Colorado-man - you and JedClampett have no case. Not one person signed up by Acorn ever voted fraudulently.
The only thing they were cited for was turning in voter registration cards that didn't have accurate or factual information on them. That didn't have anything to do with vote fraud, however, as none of those people voted.
Nobody is giving ALEC millions of dollars to stop a few "Mickey Mouse" voter registration cards. They're doing it for the effect shown in Nate Silver's chart above.
It's an investment they expect to profit from. They wouldn't get diddly-squat from stopping inaccurate registration cards. And that's why absentee ballots are exempted.
truetexan- I''m tired of your chain-mail BS.
From FactCheck.org:
A 3.8 Percent "Sales Tax" on Your Home?
Posted on April 22, 2010
Q: Does the new health care law impose a 3.8 percent tax on profits from selling your home?
A: No, with very few exceptions. The first $250,000 in profit from the sale of a personal residence won't be taxed, or the first $500,000 in the case of a married couple. The tax falls on relatively few — those with high incomes from other sources.
We’ve been flooded with queries about this one ever since the health care bill became law. At the last minute, Democratic lawmakers decided on a new 3.8 percent tax on the net investment income of high-income persons. But the claim that this would amount to a $15,200 tax on the sale of a typical $400,000 home is utterly false.
Footnote: Some of the chain e-mails that claim ordinary home sales will be taxed include a copy of an article written by Paul Guppy, a policy analyst with the conservative Washington Policy Institute (that's Washington state, not Washington, D.C.). The article appeared March 28 as an op-ed in the Spokane, Wash., Spokesman-Review, and Guppy claimed that "[m]iddle-income people must pay the full tax even if they are 'rich' for only one day." That brought a quick rebuttal from Sara Orrange, the government affairs director of the local Realtors association. She wrote a letter to the newspaper calling Guppy's article "inaccurate" and saying, "Most people who sell their homes will not be impacted by these new regulations. This is not a new tax on every seller, and that correction needs to be made." In a news article the next day, business reporter Bert Caldwell confirmed that only "a very few" home sellers would pay the 3.8 percent tax.
Tell the truth or get out of the voting pool.
And since you got that flat-out whopper from www.gop.gov, what more evidence do you need that they're leading you by the nose?
ALEC Alumni in Congress include[1][2]:
Former ALEC Alumni in Congress include Former Assistant Minority Leader Don Nickles, Former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Former Deputy Majority Whip and subject of the 2006 page scandal, Mark Foley.[5]
GET MOTIVATED
Throw GRANDMA and GRANDPA in the car and get them registered.
Your COMMUNITY SOCIAL AGENCIES should drive the poor to a photo I.D. spot.
The Republicans would HATE this.
Time to put our PATRIOTISM where our mouth is.
Our Nation's Voting participation is ABYSMAL.
Start telling, posting, tweeting, writing, talking, SHOUTING : VOTE VOTE VOTE
Going to the POLLS is the way individuals can make a difference.
No more whining...please.
.
.
Years ago Republicans were loudly upset because of a conspiracy theory that they made up about Democrats advocating a "National ID". They considered it a terrible invasion of privacy and there was a lot of Bachmann-like paranoia about how it was going to be used to control people and keep track of their activities for some nefarious purpose, like putting people in FEMA camps and such. Now, it seems the Republicans are the ones who want everyone to have a "national" (or State) ID. I find the switch very interesting, as they are also the ones who seem okay with the government spying on it's own citizens.
If you are one of the many elderly or poor people who were born at home and don't have a birth certificate, how do you get a photo ID?
Truetexan...TOTAL BULLSH*T!! Nice try a$$hole...
http://factcheck.org/2012/04/realtors-the-3-8-sales-tax-and-247-medicare-premiums/
It's just a matter of WHERE you live that determines your Voting Rights...a little border could disenfranchise you.
So much for the
UNITED
States of America.
http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx
GILLY GILLY, GILLY........METHODOLOGY IS STILL NOT A FACT!...... The facts are before you. Even republican studies show there is no in person voter id fraud. You are trying to create something that does not exist for your imagination by using the possibility of something that may exist in something else...shoplifting.... ......works in your mind........but not in the world of facts!
REPUBS ARE RIGGING THE ELECTIONS WITH VOTER SUPPRESSION LAWS. Now that's a fact!
Obama/Biden 2012 protect your voting rights!
Not ONCE in all the hoopla about "voter fraud" has even ONE case of such been presented to a court considering the legitimacy of voter ID restrictions.
If it exists, why don't they ever bring it to court?
Nah, the corporations aren't spending millions and millions of dollars to "prevent voter fraud", folks. They expect a RETURN on their investment. Now, wonder what that might be?
Colorado....who the hell are you to tell someone to get out more because their lifestyle doesn't require them to show some kind of ID?.....rt wingers piss and moan about less government, no to any kind of gun registration,etc....give me my liberty, my freedom....... then people like you create all kinds of laws taking away everyone else's freedom and liberties....trying to stop people from voting against your wishes. Go live in Iran if you like voter suppression! You want to take away women's rights to their own decisions with their body, go to Iran or Afganistan and live with your covered up women control. RT wingers are the American Taliban.....Just like Ryan said , like he pledged the night Obama took office. Ryan pledged to act like the Taliban, act like the insurgents do....all to make President Obama a one term president.....
VOTE AGAINST COLORADO GUY...vote Obama/Biden and protect your right to vote!
Real American...always great posts...keeping it real.......!
Star Sailing and Real American: Thanks for posting. Good catch on that real estate tax. There's another email about Medicare going up to $247/mo next year because of the new health care law. Or how about the one where Prez Obama added that anyone holding gold worth above $600 must report it to the govt.
Caution: Some of these repub/tparty emails have embedded code that will really mess your computer. Maybe that's why they use CAPS and lots of colors. A number of people in our moveon.org were burned getting these emails from "friends?"
I really like my candidate and/or some secret organization who backs my candidate has offered me a lot of money to violate 18USCODE PART1 CHAPTER 29 and impersonate another registered voter, which is a felony. They will give me all this money and bus me in to the place where I will fraudulently vote and commit this felony.
Oh shoot, it requires I go to Kinko's and make a fake photo ID, well just forget it then.
It's so worth disenfranchising an overwhelmingly Democratic-supporting voting population to put an end once and for all to these evildoers who are so enamored of a politician they are willing to commit a felony but can't be bothered to make a fake ID.
And don't tell me that because these are state-issued IDs the photo won't match, no one at the polls is checking the state's database for every voter. This is just another step in the Republican playbook of how to tip the scale in favor of the old white men for a few more decades until they are so outnumbered they will be swept out.
Patriotism is about more than waving flags and supporting our troops. It is also about paying the taxes you owe and supporting our Founding principles.
To try to gain political advantage by messing with the one man, one vote founding principle of our democracy is UNPATRIOTIC. ALEC and their Republicans are clearly messing with it. Romney is apparently all for it too. I know he can wave a flag, how is he at paying taxes?
I'd like to see just how patriotic Mitt Romney is. The 13.9% tax rate on the 20 million income he paid in 2010 is lower than what many middle class taxpayers (including myself) pay. But, I will bet he paid even less in the years he won't show us. I'll bet he had years he paid nothing in federal income tax because he could get away with it by using tax breaks few of us even know exist. If he did pay 0 in federal income tax because he could, what does that say about his willingness to put his money where his mouth is, and really support this country? What would that say about his patriotism?
Huh? You're the one asking someone to prove a negative! It's akin to asking someone to prove that there is no such thing as bigfoot? You can't. The onus is on proving that bigfoot does exist. You can't just say "well since you can't prove that bigfoot doesn't exist, then he must".
The first elected black American President is up for re-election and now the GOP wants to change the voter ID laws... Does anyone see anything wrong with this?
America, land of the free, home of the brave, the world must be laughing at us...
I say every citizen over eighteen should be made to vote, it should be a law that you have to vote...
Why don't the liberals just come out and admit that they don't want any restrictions on who can vote as long as they vote liberal.
Can't win on your own so why not block the competition from voting, eh?
Why should there be restrictions on who can vote? If you're a Citizen, you can vote. The intent of these laws is very clear: to prvent certain citizens from not being able to cast a ballot.
Why don't the conservative just come out and admit that they want voting limited to super-rich, land-owning Caucasian men? If you think they are going to stop at students, Latinos, Blacks, and the elderly you are fooling yourself.
Not a question of liberals or conservatives. There was NO voting irregularity except the Bush debacle where the system was irregular - not the voters. You support blocking the black and underprivileged votes - face it. Help on the way - people will over turn such attempts. It really boils down to the single fact that the so called "conservatives" and teabags despise the blackness of the president. If it's any solace the president is half white - rest easy.
Needing to be a citizen IS a restriction. You also cant be a felon.
Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.
you'realoser: Do you have a reputable source for this information? What is it?
Why don't conservatives just admit they're myopic, racist little s**ts, who can't get their tiny minds around having a black president?
There is no voter fraud, Lee County Fl. clerk of court says there may be have been one voter irregularity, maybe 1, maybe! Voter suppression a very real goal of ALEC and the republican controlled states.
@ Joe
Other than getting on an airplane, I go weeks at a time and never have to produce a government ID and there are 10s of thousands of older citizens without drivers licenses or a current passport.
Voter fraud in this country is now almost as bogus as Invasion by Martians.
What an idiotic statement!!
you'realoser:
And a photo id would have affected those situations? How?
Photo id does NOTHING to prevent absentee ballot fraud or fraud by those who have moved and are still registered at their previous address(es). What keeps people from voting at their old residence and at their new residence? If you're going to try and solve a problem you need the correct definittion of the problem in the first place. ALEC has mde NO attempt to solve the biggest problem I just described.
If ALEC was serious about this issue in a bi-partison way, they'd be proposing a national id card that accesses a national database of registered voters. NO ONE would be allowed to vote more than once. This solves the problem you describe and the one I described.
I think you are a loser and not doubt supported your loser Gov . during the recall -
You are wrong Jan, I want everyone to vote that is an American citizen. I could care less who they vote for. In our constitution its says "Right to Vote" not "Priveledge to Vote". When they start taking our rights away, they wont stop and soon you will have corporations telling us how to live our lives, that may be fine with you but its not fine with the majority of our country. America is a democracy not a corporacracy.
and who will pay for the ID's and who will maintain the voter Data Base.....it's MORE GOVERNMENT when u guys proclaim to want smaller government and also who will audit the database to make sure there is NO FRAUD there....LOL....this is a clu$$ter f00k from the get go and yet there is NO evidence to even support such nonsense in the 1st place!!!
I am in aw over all the people that couldn't vote because they don't have an ID. This is funny stuff.
@marc - you are a joke! We Republicans deal with FACTS. FACT is you should NOT vote for a person because he is white or black or a he instead of a she. FACT is you should vote for someone with solid policy that UPHOLDS the laws of this land. Obama needs the illegal vote to win re-election. The illegals will attempt to vote and people will attempt to vote in several places without the requirement of valid photo ID. Obama violates LAW by allowing the illegals a 2yr reprieve (the timing of this is NOT a coincidence) if they meet certain criteria. The very FACT they are undocumented (no papers, no proof, etc...) means they can NOT prove they meet this so called criteria - how can an UNDOCUMENTED 30,31 year PROVE (without documentation - you know undocumented = illegal) that he is not really 34 or 35. He can't. This whole charade of Obama's is a joke. He allows violation of the law, they saw their parent(s) break the LAW, they stayed & continued violating the law, but NOW all of a sudden they are going to RESPECT and FOLLOW the law of this land and NOT vote? You can't be serious. Any person with intelligent factual reasoning can figure the potential of voter fraud and Obama masterminded it all. His timing, his allowance of continued LAW violation - all for his own personal political gain! He is a disgrace!
We need ID for numerous day to day life issues in this country. The poor can get a low cost or NO COST State ID. For the Dems to think that the elderly are going to vote Democrat in large numbers is also stupid! It is all about the "illegal" vote - who DON'T have the RIGHT to vote. But hey, the so called President doesn't care - WHY? Hmmmm.... rocket science it is NOT.
Do you know if I go to Mexico to live as an illegal - They won't allow me a reprieve or to stay - I go to JAIL!!
What about all the Hispanics who followed the LAW of this land, made application and paid their monies, Obama is giving them one big FU.
Try making factual points next time when discussing the GOP instead of your narrow minded liberal slant; like this news station! This NEWS group has now written 4 articles on this subject and it is all slanted to the LEFT!
youraloser....I saw you in the Olympics riding a prancing horse...I saw you in the temple just before all those people were shot, ......I saw you in the book building when Kennedy was assassinated...I saw you putting Michigan plates on those Wisc cars.......I just used your handbook youraloser......You like it?
well rounded..?
The Republicans/Teas feed on scare tactics that don't exist (keeps the newly dumbed down in line), Conspiracy theories (more fear), Lies (makes the minions upset), Anger(see Lies) Hatred (gives the teas their fix) Bigotry (see Hatred), Religion (after all the rich Are gods). Voter repression is a Great sneeky way to only have "their kind" of people vote. They went all in after the "Bush debacle" Ya y'all remember that other Texan who Scr$%wed this whole country over?? What is it about "YOU" people?
My turn you right-wing-nut trolls.... Won't voter ID laws make it more difficult for the denizens of Kolob to vote for Mittens?
From ALEC Exposed at SourceWatch:
Learn more about corporations VOTING to rewrite our laws.
About ALEC
ALEC is a corporate bill mill. It is not just a lobby or a front group; it is much more powerful than that. Through ALEC, corporations hand state legislators their wishlists to benefit their bottom line. Corporations fund almost all of ALEC's operations. They pay for a seat on ALEC task forces where corporate lobbyists and special interest reps vote with elected officials to approve “model” bills. Learn more at the Center for Media and Democracy's ALECexposed.org, and check out breaking news on our PRWatch.org site.
ALEC Alumni in Congress include[1][2]:
Former ALEC Alumni in Congress include Former Assistant Minority Leader Don Nickles, Former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Former Deputy Majority Whip and subject of the 2006 page scandal, Mark Foley.[5]
References
This article is a stub. You can help by expanding it.
This is a list of groups or individuals associated in some capacity with the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).
Categories:
Mik......!....GREAT POST ON ALEC MEMBERS. Now we see who is feeding from the trough of greed like pigs!
Vote them out and give back America to Real American and not "Corporations are people too my friend!" Romney pals. ALEC CORPORATIONS ARENOT PEOPLE TOO. Did you see ALEC AND CORPORATIONS COME HOME FROM IRAQ IN A BODY BAG? Hell no! Did you see ALEC AND CORPORATIONS COME HOME WOUNDED? Hell no! Vets are getting the benefits gutted by Ryan and Romney plan to give more tax breaks to Romney and Ryan. VETS ....why in the hell would you vote for repubs who represent the war profiteers? Why would anyone vote for repubs who made money..(which is property)....into a person?
Vote President Obama/Biden and Democratic party to stop voter supprssion, to stop ALEC!
Make sure you vote for all the candidates listed on milk#i#s list.
Jim, are you talking about Obama, Pelosi, and the rest of the regime? As I said before, JIM 900084 is a liberal and he sees nothing wrong with letting anyone and everyone vote. To hell with the laws, lets just grab a train, go to South America, fill it with illegals and let them vote. Right Jim? Is there anyone that you would disqualify JIM?
Whatever, Jan. As the article stated, there have been only 10 cases of id related voting fraud nationwide. Must have been a damned tiny train you're talking about. And the Republican legislator (last name starts with a T-can't think of it now) in Pennsylvania admitted on television that the voter id act there is to prevent Democrats from voting.
So your attitude is just a little over the top. And the reason in each of these states that enact these laws is to disenfranchise people who are not likely to vote Republican or Conservative. Because of this, I will no longer vote for anyone who is Republican, even though I used to if I thought the individual would represent everyone in his/her district.
Exactly so and these highly RESTRICTIVE ID laws, instituted ONLY by RETHUGS, on the insistence of BANK OF AMERICA, is effectively a POLL TAX which are illegal. A rose by any other name smells as sweet and a rethug voter obstruction initiative by any other name reeks as much.
Of course any illegitimate voters are going to vote liberal. If you're commiting a crime, you expect to get something out of it and its the liberals that give all the money to the Takers. Criminals by definition are Takers.
Jan you really are a card-carrying member of the teabrained illiterati, huh?
The little barb about South Americans? Hello ya teabrained maroon, THIS President has DEPORTED MORE PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER IN HISTORY, but don't let the TRUTH interfere with your assinine fantasies about that.
Can anyone explain to me why in a country you need an ID to drive, ID to get on a plane, ID to collect welfare; ID to collect benefits; ID to take the SATs; ID to essentially do everything and anything how showing an ID when you vote does anything other than prevent illegals and those who failed to register from voting? We had ERIC say above that he was fine with ID's as long as we let people vote and as an example he used transportation for the elderly. Nice thought until you think, hey what does that have to do with ID? They can get to the polls without help, unless they have an ID then they need a ride? The simple fact is that voter fraud was never an issue until the illegals flooded in. AS illegals are criminals they obviously would vote Democrat. That's all that this is about: letting Obama's real constituents (foreigners) vote.
jan, there are no hoards of illegals storming the voting precincts, or felons your argument has no merit. There is no voter fraud and voter suppression is real and the republican controlled states have proven it.
Jeff, because all the things you listed are a privilege not a right. Voting is a right for any American citizen, simple.
Jeff,
It's not about having an ID to vote, that's always been true...it's about having to have a very particular photo ID issued by governments that no one has ever had to have before.
And what's really a piss off is that this out to lunch legislation was written and disseminated by some corporate quasi-governmental body in secret to benefit their members who, surprise, surprise, are all conservative Republicans.
Why are these guys writing template legislation in secret in the first place? They aren't elected representatives...they are corporate lobbyists foisting voter suppression laws across the country.
Deal with that.
Watch HBO Recount. ALEC is just another group using unconstitutional tactics to deter voters. This is scary
Jeff - voting is local, getting an id is not.
I can walk to vote, I have to get in a car and drive 12 miles to get an id.
People who have not registered can not vote.
Illegals have been flooding in for the last 30 years, and Obama has deported more illegals than the last 3 presidents. Reagan gave them all amnesty (which Obama has NOT done).
Any other lies you'd like to discuss?
I love how they spout that everyone has id. This may be true, however these states have enacted new laws saying you need a certain type of ID. College ID is not good enough, too many vote for dems, but oh hey concealed weapons cards are ok, since they mostly vote republican. If you really want to stop voter fraud, stop absentee voting...oh yeah mostly republicans vote that way and you dont have to show any id for that. Who is frauding who?
@blueunicorn
Well it said so on the internet so it must be true. LOL! So do you also believe the number of people busted for shoplifting is the total number of people who commit the crime of shoplifting? Do you guys think these things through at all?
culheath
Huh? Where's the secret? They write the templates and then make them available to anyone and everyone to see. So how do you equate that to being done "in secret"? Or do you make that blatantly false claim because it bolsters your argument? Kind of hard to make the case that you've got a legitimate gripe when you have to use gross exaggeration to make your point.
@blearyeyed
Or you can sit at home and cast an absentee ballot. Problem solved.
I have a valid government form of photo ID. I have a current US passport. Florida would not issue a drivers license to me because I use my married name not my maiden (as on birth certificate). They would not accept my passport (married name). I had to show legal documents of the name change. Getting the documents costs money.
To those who say they have to show photo ID for all sorts of reasons, I have not been asked for ID for any reason this year and I drink, smoke, use credit.
Except for renting a car once, I have not been asked for an ID for almost two and a half years.
Backwhiner ....Just refuses to let all the studies shown for months ...and above story.....because facts get in his way. He has been on blogs long enough to know all the problems the elderly, the poor, the disabled, the non drivers, the young all have in getting HIS TYPE OF ID HE CHOOSES WE MUST ALL HAVE! It is not just voter id laws, it is removing voting stations in Dem areas, changing times for Dems to vote while extending times and having more voting stations and booths in repub areas. Removing same day registration for new voters or people who wish to update their info on registration days. In short...Backwhiner does not want anyone but repubs and the rich voting. Anything he says denying the plan of repubs is disingenuous at best. When he is called out on his lies he always resorts to name calling.
Obama/Biden and Democratic Party...protect your right to vote!
Evelyn-518247
Sooo??? LEt's just get rid of the need for them altogether? Or did you have some other point you were trying to make.
okie joe-3728210
"Except for that one time I haven't needed an ID at all", Too funny! btw, what would you have done had you not had one? Walk to where ever you were going?
starsailing
No, I'm just waiting on all of the studies that show these laws actually suppress any voting. Funny how you libs clamour about studies unless you're asked to provide any to support your claims when they suddenly become unnecessary.
And Starsailing has been on blogs long enough that he should realize this isn't even an issue since all of these people can vote via absentee ballot with no ID required. Instead he slips on the blinders and only listens to and repeats BS that he can never manage to back up with any sources.
ROTFLMAO!!! The @!$%#ing republicans are EVERY BIT AS BAD as the ass hole democrats. Sorry but I will NOT be one of the mindless sheep who vote for one of two people because I'm too stupid to realize that the only thing that sets them apart is the capitol letter after their name on the ballot.
You must make that assumption based on the fact that it is the tactic you use. Or did you just misspell my screen name? durrrr You can always count on a lib to be a hypocrite
Backwiner...you are not WAITING for the studies that show voter suppression...you are ignoring them.
In Mn repubs are changing absentee ballot ..to...provide and ID when vote is presented at voting time. You would have to be present after sending your ballot in when it is counted...but never mind the wording is set up to change it later by repubs if they stay in power...uh Huh...sure...
Backcountry164
ALEC has intentionally stayed under the the public radar for decades which why you never even heard of them until last year when an expose was done in the media regarding the Stand Your Ground laws and many of the corporate member ended up leaving because of the backlash from the public.
Where's the gross exaggeration? Everything I said about ALEC is true, the are a right wing, corporate based group that has been writing legislation aimed at creating public policy to serve their corporate interests and frequently antithetical to the public interest. These recent state ID requirement laws were pushed by ALEC in order to assure conservative governments sympathetic to ALEC corporate interests.
http://www.thenation.com/article/161973/koch-connection
http://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/alec-the-voice-of-corporate-special-interests-state-legislatures
Some ALEC facts:
http://alecexposed.org/wiki/What_is_ALEC%3F
So basically ALEC has operated as non-registered corporate lobby group writing and pushing cookie cutter self-serving legislation through state legislatures behind the scenes out of public sight. If you don't have a problem with such political interference you have a problem.
From SourceWacth:
Learn more about corporations VOTING to rewrite our laws.
About ALEC
ALEC is a corporate bill mill. It is not just a lobby or a front group; it is much more powerful than that. Through ALEC, corporations hand state legislators their wishlists to benefit their bottom line. Corporations fund almost all of ALEC's operations. They pay for a seat on ALEC task forces where corporate lobbyists and special interest reps vote with elected officials to approve “model” bills. Learn more at the Center for Media and Democracy's ALECexposed.org, and check out breaking news on our PRWatch.org site.
ALEC Alumni in Congress include[1][2]:
Former ALEC Alumni in Congress include Former Assistant Minority Leader Don Nickles, Former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Former Deputy Majority Whip and subject of the 2006 page scandal, Mark Foley.[5]
References
This article is a stub. You can help by expanding it.
This is a list of groups or individuals associated in some capacity with the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).
Categories:
Backwhiner....and more than that!
@starsailing
Am I now? Well why don't you force me to pay attention by providing links to said studies or articles that quote them. I won't hold my breath waiting for you to back up your claims considering you never do, which is probably because you can't.
@miklkit
Using a ridiculously biased group as a source to point out the bias of another group is beyond laughable. The literal definition of the pot calling the kettle black.
Thanks Cul and Mik! Great posts again.
Backwhiner...I provide sources on anything when ignorant people or for people who are not up to current events need them . Back...you are not ignorant ......so you must be a troll being paid for your rants for the rich, or..you have an income of over a million a year and are trying to vote your interests. I hope for your moral compass in life you have a million in income this year. Being a shill is so...so.......tacky!...Durrrr!
Obama/Biden 2012
starsailing
Well how about this one time you provide them just to prove me wrong. As they say, put up or shut up...
Your excuses are becoming quite pathetic. In fact haven't you been bitching about Romney not providing his tax returns and here you are refusing to provide sources for your claims. Why am I not surprised.
bayllie
And surprise! No sources to back up that claim either Gee, what a shock. /sarcasm
The liberal position on this subject is a joke. You howl and scream about the lack of proof of something, seemingly unable to comprehend that lack of examples could also be attributed to the inability to catch those who are cheating. While at the same time you are utterly unable to provide ANYTHING to back your claims of suppression.
As to the absentee ballot issue, what is your point exactly? First you bitch and whine about people not being able to vote and then you bitch and whine when it is proven that they still have other options. You scream about there being no voter fraud but then you turn around and deny the obvious solution to the suppression issue by using voter fraud as an excuse. Would it be possible for you to make up your mind? Do you actually expect anyone to take you seriously when you flip=flop back and forth? Last I heard that was something of an issue for libs. Guess it's only a problem when someone else does it, typical liberal hypocrisy.
There's your response, now why don't you return the favor by posting some sources to back your claims of voter suppression. I double dare you.
bayllie
Starsailing has a habit of mentioning "facts" and "studies" but then refusing to back up any of them with any source. That's all I'm asking for. I would like some sources that reference these studies that show ID laws suppress voting. Is that really too much to ask? You libs get all bent out of shape when there is no evidence to support voter fraud but then refuse to provide evidence of voter suppression.
So again I'll ask you and anyone else (I know starsailing can't back up ANY of his gibberish) PLEASE provide me with some sources to back up the claims you're making.
This is not a huge surprise! The GOP knows their nutty know nothing base will vote for them and give them what they want, they just dont trust the rest of to give them what they want which is total power again. And they know that their nutty know nothing base has forgetten what happened before 2008, but they know the rest of us have not.
yep they do not trust the THINKING person..... They just want their trained puppets to vote.....
Its the liberal welfare state that treats people like pets; keeping them dependent without expecting anything in return except their blind loyalty.
Was is SC where the liberals ( DNC ) sued to have party affiliation attached to non-partisan positions because thier base was to stupid to vote and didn't know how to vote unless there was a ( D ) next to a name.
And how does the corporate state treat its subjects?
I don't expect an answer to that...it's just to demonstrate the absurdity of your comment.
Why is it that people always compare welfare recipients to pets? If you mean the kinds of pets who are locked in a cage, live in their own feces, and are fed maybe every other day - you would have the proper picture of 90% of the welfare recipients I have dealt with in 20 years in the ministry. The idea that they are living plush cared for lives is an outright lie - and none of them wants this existence, but those who have made a real effort have been so beaten up - many of them have given up.
I spent 5 years trying to get people jobs in the inner city - only so they could make less than they received on welfare. The only people making out like bandits were the slum lords and corporate interests that refused to hire workers for full time so they could get out of paying benefits.
Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps?? You could do that in the 50's, 60's, 70's. But now the system is so stacked against the poor that it's like asking them to swim with concrete galoshes.
As for being against success? There are two kinds of success. Success based on honesty, integrity, and hard work - or Success built on greed, wealth, and unjust laws. The first builds a nation, the second tears it down.
Peanut please dont generalize like that. I myself probably have more money in my purse than you will ever make in your lifetime. Look at the facts, red states use safety nets more than blue states, that means in simple terms for a simple mind republicans use welfare more than democrats.
Debdem-
FALSE FALSE FALSE - Want to make up any more fake so called facts without referencing where you got your statistics from? I can say the sky is Orange all I want but it doesn't make it FACT (you know - true).
Also, just so you know, the so called "safety nets" you reference means availability of, programs, number of people per capita, etc... MANY MANY factors & variables to compare, breakdown and then use to get an actual percentage. You outright made up a lie!
Hey, Wellrounded! Are you aware that the Red state Idaho demanded federal dollars and federal conservation officers because Idahoans wanted the wolves killed off in their state? And here I thought they didn't believe in entitlements. Well, except for rancher welfare.
Shameless destruction of equal rights movement in America. First step was to identify the origins. Next to squash such right wing "conservative" attempts to dismantle the core of America.
legitimate rape of voters
In no state has there ever been any significant voter fraud. Voter ID is a solution for which no problem exists. It's sole purpose is to suppress the votes of those traditionally vote Democratic. The GOP in Pennsylvania has openly admitted this. Click on the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8
Dailykos ? Are you serious ????
Do you know that photo ID is required to vote in many Liberal Utopia countries Progressives wish America was like ? The whole phoney progressive outrage over " Voter ID " is a big red herring.
I saw the actual newsclip of the Republican from PA who admitted the law was to lower the number of eligible Democrats who could vote in PA. No red herring, just a fact.
A red herring? Obstructing AMERICANS from voting? lmao.
I live in MA we have a VOTER ID LAW here, you DO have to show one of the following TO vote: A current and valid photo ID, current utility bill, a bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that is recent showing your name and address. THAT is SUFFICIENT to determine if the person is WHO they say they are. You don't get ON the roles in the first place without establishing that you are a US CITIZEN age 18 or over. So to make these RIDICULOUS requirements for STATE ISSUED ID's THAT ARE CURRENT, when we KNOW many ELDERLY VETERANS don't HAVE THAT SORT OF ID is disgusting. A move only REPUKES would support.
The issue is NOT requiring ID, it is how the REPUKES have limited what IS acceptable ID. Elderly people with expired driver's licenses, NOT GOOD ENOUGH-- elderly veterans with their military ID, NOT GOOD ENOUGH, students with their student ID's NOT GOOD ENOUGH, recent bank statements, with address and name, NOT GOOD ENOUGH. BS is what this is.
you'realoser:
You also need an id to prove membership at your country club, AMVETs, ELKS, MOOSE, etc. What does that have to do with your right to vote? NOTHING!!!
Heck, Righties, here in New York, once you are registered you don't have to bring ANYTHING with you to the polls. I have a non-driver ID on me that I used to need for check cashing but even that is rarely required these days as they have other ways of confirming identity. Anyway when you arrive at the polls, you state your name and address, they locate you in the book and you sign the register so the election worker can see that your handwriting matches previous votes. Our polls open at 6 a.m. and stay open until 9 p.m.
@Righties Don't....
The difference is you can be "Illegal" and have a student ID, you can be "Illegal" and have someone else's old expired driver's license, you can be "Illegal" and have a bank statement with an address & name on it (doesn't make it their statement). Now do you see the difference?
Yes, it may take a little effort for some elderly citizens, but this has been in the making for years. It is do-able at low cost (usually $7 for a valid state ID) or at NO COST. You need valid photo ID for many many daily life experiences in this country.
Well, you can't have someone else's ID if it has your picture on it.
Wellrounded
"You need valid photo ID for many many daily life experiences in this country."
Not in the daily life of every citizen. Especially older voters living in small towns.
I have read many of the comments referring to " OLDER VOTERS".I am past 80 years old and I lived in small towns most of my life.I had to show PHOTO ID almost every place I went.If My friends did not have transportation To get an ID I gave them a ride.I have always had to register to vote when ever I moved to a different district or State.My youngest children had to have a SOCIAL SECURITY CARD! I had to prove they were barn by showing a CERTIFIED birth certificate.They had to show this to get a Drivers license when they were old enough to drive.If a person lives way out in the country and has never voted it is not because they had no voter ID it is because they made no effort to get one.My grandparents lived way OUT IN THE COUNTRY AND THEY ALWAYS MANAGED TO FOLLOW THE LAWS OF THE LAND. My children could not be enrolled in school without proof that they had had their immunizations.All of my 80 plus years there have been rules & laws that are requirements and you must follow them.Why all the fuss and hateful messages over something that is required every where you go???It is really quite simple for anyone to get a photo ID unless they cannot move from their bed and then they likely would not bother to vote anyway . If all you complainers are so worried about the elderly who cannot get out to get an ID---- would spend your time and energy helping the less fortunate to get their Id , you would not have to worry about them so loudly!!! Try it , You'll like IT!!!!
Mary Lee,
Good for you, but it doesn't change the fact that it's possible (and completely legal) for U.S. citizens to live their lives without owning a government-issued photo ID, and even those U.S. citizens who choose to live their lives that way are guaranteed the right to vote.
youraloser........thanks for reminding me..When Romney spoke at NAACP meeting he bought and paid for and shipped his black to the meeting to applaud and to stand up and cheer for him.......buying blacks.....typical Romney buying his fake persona, ...Romney the strawman.....
States that require picture ID for voters should be required to provide those ID's to qualified citizens free of charge and provide application offices in every town in the state.
Right and THEY should be required to do ALL THE FOOTWORK needed and PAY ALL RELATED COSTS for the elderly and unemployed STUDENTS!
The documentation required to get a photo ID is not free of charge. Try to get a birth certificate in Texas. Practically requires and act of Congress and 6 months--two trips to the Vital Statistics and cash.
*ahem* they do.
And the range of documents you can provide to prove your identity is very flexible.
The thing I never understood about the argument that an ID card would exclude the poor is, how many poor people do YOU know that don't have at least a SS Card or a birth certificate? In nearly all states, one of these (plus a copy of your last utility bill) is all that are required for a photo ID.
Now, if we are talking about *homeless* people, then your argument might hold some water, but even then their are voters organizations out there that will gladly help, from providing transportation to helping them collect the needed documentation.
When I was a kid, my family was dirt poor. So poor, in fact, that we lived were forced to "live" in a shelter at one point. Yet, things like our birth certificates and SS cards and medical records didn't magically wink out of existence. We still had all those things. My parents were poor, not irresponsible.
SC does this. A grand total of 23 people have taken avantage of it. Does sound like a lot of disenfranchisement to me.
Stephen:
You need to read about the PA voter ID fiasco. What you describe is how we WISH it was in PA.
You are either a plant to spread mis-information, or you have not taken the initiative to research the laws in other states. The *ahem* was a give away. A 'tell' that says I'm smarter than you and you can believe what I'm about to tell you, which was 'called' when you showed your true ignorance on the subject in other states.
They do at low cost or NO COST. Low cost for a valid, photo STATE ID is about $7.
@blearyeyed - *AHEM* In PA you need a VALID PHOTO ID for a fishing license. I believe the potential for FRAUD is much greater in voting than in getting a FISHING license!! Why is it more difficult to FISH in PA than to vote??!?!!
I never really considered it before as I thought most adults had a photo ID however I read that over 9% of adults mostly elderly and minorities didn't. If that's true as is the claim out of several thousand suspicions of fraudulent voting only a hand full proved true then it's hard to justify keeping millions of eligible voters from voting when there's so little real reason other than trying to change the will of the people. There wasn't one single case of an illegal voting.
In Virginia you can't get a drivers license or ID card if you're over 21 without a passport or some recognized document with a photo such as military ID.It would be very difficult to get one unless you already had a photo ID. Under 21 parents can validate your identity.
From SourceWatch:
Learn more about corporations VOTING to rewrite our laws.
About ALEC
ALEC is a corporate bill mill. It is not just a lobby or a front group; it is much more powerful than that. Through ALEC, corporations hand state legislators their wishlists to benefit their bottom line. Corporations fund almost all of ALEC's operations. They pay for a seat on ALEC task forces where corporate lobbyists and special interest reps vote with elected officials to approve “model” bills. Learn more at the Center for Media and Democracy's ALECexposed.org, and check out breaking news on our PRWatch.org site.
ALEC Alumni in Congress include[1][2]:
Former ALEC Alumni in Congress include Former Assistant Minority Leader Don Nickles, Former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Former Deputy Majority Whip and subject of the 2006 page scandal, Mark Foley.[5]
References
This article is a stub. You can help by expanding it.
This is a list of groups or individuals associated in some capacity with the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).
Categories:
Wellrounded:
Um... maybe because the right to vote is just a tad more important than the right to fish?
The intent of these laws is very clear: to prvent certain citizens from not being able to cast a ballot. How does this prevent citizens from voting? Show an ID and you vote. What is your definition of a citizen? someone who is alive and inside our borders?
You can be a citizen and not have an ID thus preventing a citizen from voting due to them not having an ID. Its not that hard to understand. It doesn't matter what the definition of citizen is. The fact is that there are citizens without ID that will not get to vote.
How do you know they're citizens until they properly identify themselves? You think voting in the most powerful country in the world should be based on the honor system? I cant even take college classes without proving I satisfy the prerequisites.
Jan EVERYONE has the SAME DEFINITION of what a CITIZEN is. And ALL agree ONLY A CITIZEN CAN VOTE. So stop acting StUPID, as if you don't know it is all about the RIGIDITY OF THE RIGHT ABOUT WHAT IS BEING ACCEPTED AS AN ACCEPTABLE ID. The issue is that these sorts of laws are WITHOUT QUESTION INTERFERING WITH AMERICAN CITIZENS FROM CASTING BALLOTS IN THE UPCOMING ELECTION WHICH WILL BE CLOSE AND WHICH REPUKES hope to win by OBSTRUCTING the other side from being permitted to vote as if VOTING is now something that REPUKES get to BESTOW rather than a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT OF EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN!
RDSMH! - stop yelling. It contributes nothing and actually discourages people from reading your posts. We should have discussions, not yelling contests, even if the dunderheads on the other side of the issue are frustrating poopyheads.
Good point PntGallery...How do we know Mitt is Not a felon with out His proof.?
Where are the tax returns? We the people Need to see his Proof!
Many citizens live in the city where they've never had a DL, some live in rural areas far from a place to get a voter's ID - some places have entire counties where you can't get an ID that's acceptable. Making people pay to get IDs to vote is a form of poll tax which was outlawed many years ago. To the very poor, coughing up $10 to vote is cruel and it's doubly cruel when you can't get transportation to get the ID. In Ohio registration was restricted to 8am to 5pm when their attempts to curtail voter registration was shot down - they opted for highly restricted ID laws. So how are people going to get IDs if they work these hours? Getting the freedom to cast your vote should not be such a monunmental task - many countries make election day a holiday and have 70 or 80 percent turnout consistently. This is all about suppressing the Dem vote. Look at the comment by the pennsylvania congressman who bragged about how the voter's ID law they passed will give the state to Rmoney - "done" is how he ended his statement, suggesting that the law would be the difference. The video is all over the internet; get informed! That's the best tool against corruption, become involved and get informed. Please.
Yup. It looks like the dead in Chicago won't be able to vote in the future if this succeeds. How un-American! How totally unjust!
They will just do what the Democrats did here in WA, switch to "
voteFraud by mail " system.The stories about chicago fraud by mail are even worse. They're opened by union "volunteers" who look for union members and make sure they voted how they were told. There have been documented cases but they seemed to quietly go away when Daley was mayor. Not sure about the new crook.
ROMNEY COMMITTED VOTER FRAUD?
What brings the allegation of voter fraud into this? Well, in the January 2010 special election for the Massachusetts Senate seat, Romney cast a mail-in ballot for Scott Brown. Of course, the fact that Romney was using his son's house at the time didn't escape notice: Here's a Jan. 8, 2010 item from Christina Bellantoni at Talking Points Memo, reporting the matter. At the time, Romney's spokesperson said that he "never gave up his Massachusetts residency." There seems to be no evidence that he cast ballots in any other state during this time.
It's kind of funny, My father always voted Republican, every election.
Now that he has passed away, he's voting Democrat!
You libs are just plain STUPID, there is just no other way to describe it.
shinelight:
Just because they were on the rolls doesn't mean they voted. And if they did vote, it was in a way that would not have been stopped at all by voter ID laws.
peanutGalleryTheater:
Oh, I guess it's a good thing voter ID laws would do absolutely nothing to prevent that either, then.
States that require picture ID for voters should be required to provide those ID's to qualified citizens free of charge and provide application offices in every town in the state. They do. In Texas you go to the DPS office but it's not free. How do these people survive without state ID's? anyone?
If they are elderly and get direct deposit, and have an atm or debit card to shop with. Store clerks never ask for id anymore when you are making purchases, so a lot of people who don't own cars, and use public transportation don't have photo ids. If I come up with more examples, I'll get back to you.
so blueunicorn,
how pray tell did they open that bank account? you know the one who issued the atm card. if your bank doesn't require a ton of I.D.'s to open an accounti would suggest pulling your money out right now.' seams that someone should stop choking that unicorn ..its not only "blue" but is now blocking much needed air to the brain cells.
la, elderly established bank accounts years before id was required, my neighbor Lady has been banking with SunTrust here in fl. for 25 years, your argument has no merit. There is no voter fraud.
wrong skyparrot
we are not discussing 25 years ago, nor when i opened my account in 66 ( even then i had to be "known " to the bank, ie; father, mother, etc. banking with them. ) I.D.'s are merely a meens to prevent fraud. I do not know one single elderly person who is without proper i.d. do you? ask your neighbor lady if she has. she more then likely will PROUDLY respond a resounding YES. as will most LEGAL voters.
No, they don't. Some DMVs are 12-30 miles away from people and getting the necessary documents for older people can take weeks and cost $100's of dollars. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You've shown now repeatedly that there are many people who have zero need of a photo ID for their day to day existence and yet your persist in this stupid fantasy that everyone lives the way that you do. It's annoying and arrogant and can only be the product of either a naive young person or a troll.
And you haven't at all dealt with the aspect of an organization like ALEC being the source of these laws. What is their motive do you think?
Sky parrot:
I am 65 years old and I would suppose you consider me elderly. My uncle is 81 and he definitely qualifies as elderly. Both of us have had picture I.D.'s for at least 50 years. My mom, who died in 2005 also had an id card issued in Iowa in lieu of a driver's license(she never learned to drive). All of you liberal/progressive/socialists are singing a tune that anyone who has a brain dismisses as balderdash. You really need to find another issue to spout off about, like how Obama is spending us into bankruptcy.
How about they already had their banks accounts prior to photo ID requirements...you know prior to the Patriot Act.
My credit union used to require their id card to do transactions. Now all they need is an account number on the back of the check I want to deposit, and my employer only needed the credit union routing numbers for automatic deposits. If I want cash back they'll ask for id, but I get around that by depositing into my account and using my ATM card to get cash. How do I get a new ATM card? Give them the old one and as long as I don't change anything I don't need an id to get the new one.
Are you making this stuff up or have you recently gone through some of this yourself? Sounds like you're repeating something you've heard or read about.
Just because you have photo ID doesn't mean it will be accepted in your state ...the laws vary some states require that sort of ID have an expiry date on it and if the expiry date has passed the ID is not accepted. You'd better check what you state requires.
Just as an experiment, I asked several family members who are elderly at a large birthday party a fewof days ago who had the necessary Photo ID...of 7 people over 65 attending the party 2 did and the rest did not.
Scooter, unless there is a requirement that you revalidate your identity with your bank via a photo ID on a yearly basis, why couldn't they have opened it 20 years ago when they had a drivers license, but just no longer drive so do not have a current one? Assuming the bank required it when they opened the account. Contrary to popular belief, banking has changed over the decades and if you live your whole life in the same area, there is little need to change banks. When I opened my savings account 46 years ago at 4 years old, they did not require me to provide a photo ID. I did need a SS number. Prior to this new voter ID initiative, something like an expired drivers license (or military ID card) could be presented at the polling location to prove identity. This will eliminate that option and the elderly are the ones most likely to use those types of ID.
IA
My mother passed away a couple of years ago. But she wouldn't have been allowed to vote. She was born in a house outside Ranger TX. She banked at the same bank for 50+ years, didn't drive so no DL (her eyesight went south so we took away her keys). She never needed an ID for the last 10+ years of her life. Small town so even checks weren't a problem. But she never missed an election, a volunteer would help her read the ballot. She would have been furious at this.
FYI, we live in TX and the timeframe would have it impossible to get her documents together. Even though I live in Austin and could try in person. But there are more older people out there like her. If we need voter ID then time and resources must be allocated to ensure every citizen has a chance to vote.
This is just wrong - period.
LoisB
Why don't the conservative just come out and admit that they want voting limited to super-rich, land-owning Caucasian men? If you think they are going to stop at students, Latinos, Blacks, and the elderly you are fooling yourself.
LoisB, I guess you don't understand how stupid your comment is.
We just want it for legal citizens, all legal citizens, I have yet meet one that does'nt have some sort of ID.
This invasion of illegals demanding rights needs to stop, NOW !!
Have a glass of Kool-Aid and relax!
I am always asked to show ID by the TSA when I fly. Is that discrimination to.
as well as to...... LEGALLY....... hunt, fish, drive, work, buy beer, cold medicine, paint, cigarettes, etc...............
elev, not everybody climbs on airplanes, especially elderly folks. There is no Voter Fraud.
ROMNEY COMMITTED VOTER FRAUD?
What brings the allegation of voter fraud into this? Well, in the January 2010 special election for the Massachusetts Senate seat, Romney cast a mail-in ballot for Scott Brown. Of course, the fact that Romney was using his son's house at the time didn't escape notice: Here's a Jan. 8, 2010 item from Christina Bellantoni at Talking Points Memo, reporting the matter. At the time, Romney's spokesperson said that he "never gave up his Massachusetts residency." There seems to be no evidence that he cast ballots in any other state during this time.
SKY Parrot
Do you have something against old people? You moron!!!! All elderly people are not decrepit and in nursing homes as you insinuate.
But many are , you sweetheart, you.
I have NEVER had to produce an id to buy cold medicine or paint. Where do you get these examples?
Some states require it, I know FL does...don't want the teenagers huffing paint now do we?
Dave, I didn't insinuate anything, the claim that everybody that flies needs an ID, true, a lot of older folks do not fly, do not climb on airplanes, has nothing to do with being decrepit, slamming me regarding this fact does you no good service. Many elderly do not drive either, so what was your real point.
In Florida the war on voting has been expanded to include restrictions on early voting as well. They even went so far as to specifically exclude the Sunday before election day because traditionally African American voters head to the polls after Sunday church services.
Yeah, and Gov Scott's response was that he didn't know Blacks did that. What a turkey.
The right approach could have been to provide the states ample time to provide the necessary IDs to "ALL" citizens free of charge. Only then one could implement a voter ID law.
Assuming there is a bus and in a lot of the more rural country there is no bus or mass transit.
Kudo's to your son. He was 14 and went to Hartford on a bus, by himself? Hmmmm.
It will hurt ease of voting. I love the vote by mail, it's so much easier then voting at the polls. I wish they would stop this nonsense.
And with vote my mail, its easier to figure out how you voted.
Lawyers for the Obama campaign and the Democratic National Committee marched into federal court last week to argue that it is unconstitutional for Ohio to allow military voters to cast in-person early ballots on the Saturday through Monday before Election Day, given that early voting for all other voters stops on the Friday before Election Day. Apparently, Team Obama has decided to take a break from howling about the alleged injustice of voter-ID laws to argue that military voters don’t deserve an occasional accommodation.
Hmmmmm....If anyone is allowed accommodation it is the military. Hypocritical Democrats and liberals
Um, since you appear to not have all the facts, surprise, surprise, I'll be delighted to provide them.
The court case is because Ohio was only limiting voting on the three days prior to election day to military personel only. The lawsuit is to open those three days for EVERYONE who wants to vote to stop the discrimination against everyone else. EVERYONE should have the right to vote in the early voting if there is any, not just military personnel or any other group.
FYI, the republicans in Ohio have been trying everything they can think of to tamper with this election by revising their early voting which worked fine in 2008. Everyone that wanted to cast a vote was able to do so, unlike the Ohio voting debacle of 2004 when almost 200,000 people had to be turned away and were denied voting.
The GOP in Ohio has tried to extend voting hours to nights and weekends in republican counties only and eliminate nights and weekends in democratic counties. They did it openly and defiantly without one shred of shame, until it became national news. Now the secretary of state has been forced to limit all counties to no nights and weekends to prevent democratic counties from having the same.
The discrimination and strategies to keep certain groups from voting is exposed. It is despicable. The GOP does not even try to hide it anymore. It will be their undoing in November.
Lawyers for the Obama campaign and the Democratic National Committee marched into federal court last week to argue that it is unconstitutional for Ohio to allow military voters to cast in-person early ballots on the Saturday through Monday before Election Day, given that early voting for all other voters stops on the Friday before Election Day. Apparently, Team Obama has decided to take a break from howling about the alleged injustice of voter-ID laws to argue that military voters don't deserve an occasional accommodation.
Hmmmmm....If anyone is allowed accommodation it is the military. Hypocritical Democrats and liberals
And you of course can substantiate this by providing your source... correct ?
fine print, google it, very simple, check for yourself, the suit is for equal access, not suppression.
elevenpoint and you'realoser:
That didn't work for Romney and it won't work for you. Read the facts in Babina's reply (above). You people are such lemmings! Don't you dare question anything Rush or Hannity or Beck or Rove tell you - just go along with it. Don't you dare use common sense and question the rwnj henchmen whose only goal for 3 and a half years has been to see Obama fail, no matter what it costs the country. Party over country, you betcha'.
From SourceWatch:
Learn more about corporations VOTING to rewrite our laws.
About ALEC
ALEC is a corporate bill mill. It is not just a lobby or a front group; it is much more powerful than that. Through ALEC, corporations hand state legislators their wishlists to benefit their bottom line. Corporations fund almost all of ALEC's operations. They pay for a seat on ALEC task forces where corporate lobbyists and special interest reps vote with elected officials to approve “model” bills. Learn more at the Center for Media and Democracy's ALECexposed.org, and check out breaking news on our PRWatch.org site.
ALEC Alumni in Congress include[1][2]:
Former ALEC Alumni in Congress include Former Assistant Minority Leader Don Nickles, Former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Former Deputy Majority Whip and subject of the 2006 page scandal, Mark Foley.[5]
References
This article is a stub. You can help by expanding it.
This is a list of groups or individuals associated in some capacity with the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).
Categories:
Anyone who is even partially rooted in reality can make the connection between ACORN like groups and the need for voter ID validation. Of course, when it comes the the wacked out left, that is simply expecting too much.
If the left is whacked that makes the right warped.
Both extremes threaten the very roots of the Republic.
GodblessAmerica-178959,
You really need to do some research outside of FOX news. ACORN's problem was REGISTERING fictitious voters. You can register as many " Mickey Mice's " as you like but none of those 'people' SHOWED up at the polls to vote.
Here's a question for you:: We've elected 44 presidents in our nation's history, with only a handful of known cases of voter fraud. WHY NOW is voter ID and voter fraud such a pressing, urgent issue?
What's different? Well I'll tell you what's different. It's the right-wing, conservative, Tea-party cult members' obsession with getting the UPPITY black man out of their WHITE house. Given the constant opposition that the right shows towards anything that our president attempts to do for Main St., he's accomplished more in 3.5 yrs than both Bushes combined and that really PISSES your team off. Must really suck to be YOU! LOL
OBAMA/Biden 2012!!
The republicon operative who posed as a pimp only stayed out of jail by plea bargaining.
A federal judge ordered that all federal funding be restored to ACORN.
ACORN is still in business under a different name.
Who was committing fraud????
Great story. Kudos to NBC for exposing this. So it's exactly what it looked like..... a corporate drive to suppress minority votes. Hope this story goes viral.
loser, my 94 year old neighbor will do just that and they'll drive her home.
you'realoser -
I live in Illinois. Here is the complete text of the law requiring identification if stopped by a law enforcement officer:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=072500050K107-14
Please note the law does not require me to produce ID or any other corroborating evidence to back up what I tell that officer.
It's pretty funny how these conservatives didn't think to collectively push this whole ideology of voter fraud until Pres. Obama got into office. They know they can't win on their own merit so once again we're seeing that whole 'hanging chad' debacle.
From the "party of no" to the "party of dirty politics" the Republican rich have shown they'll go to great lengths to corrupt the voting process in order to win. With a stacked Supreme Court, bought-and-paid-for judges in the Federal Court system, and dirty workers at the polls the Repugnicans have a system better than anything we've had in Central America. It's hard to go up against the billionaires who finance the super-pacs, lobbyists, and so-called conservative think tanks who are undermining the democratic process. Lincoln would be ashamed. Nixon would be gloating.
You are forgetting Chicago, the epicenter of political corruption, fixed elections and gangsters. What do you supposed attracted a young Barack Obama to Chicago after growing up in Hawaii? Must be the nice weather.
you,
What is also interesting is all the Great Lakes states elected Republican governors in 2010 and are making a huge economic comeback and getting balanced budgets, except Illinois.
yup, after the auto rescue. duh.
Didn't Wisconsin just lose 15,000 jobs?
a picture I.D.restricts the poor?
i call B.S.
in this state it costs a whopping 4 bucks at the DMV. of course you have to have a VALID ss card, or birth certificate.
how much do these "poor" people pay for their cell phone?
I have no problem with having to show ID in order to vote. I live in Georgia and have to show my ID which I do without objection. I have to show ID to support other actions so why should I object.
No one should object unless they have something to hide.
I also am a 76 year old senior and know for a fact that anyone can get a proper ID if they qualify for it. I am sick and tired of people useing the excuse that seniors can't do something.
The Acorn situation should prove to you that voter fraud can and will happen so we need to prevent voting fraud any way that we possibly can.
A lot of elderly people don't have the money period. If they don't drive, they aren't going to shell the money out. Their direct deposit of Social Security is accessed by atm or debit card; I can't remember the last time a store clerk asked for photo id when I made a purchase with my debit card. People in cities where there is public transportation don't show photo ids. If I think of any more examples, I'll fill you in.
TGMcCallie. Why are the Republicans waiting until it's almost time to vote? Because the requests for photo ids are going to glut the state bureaus that have to issue these ids. A lot of people may not get their photo ids in time for the election. Can you imagine the limited office staff that will have to process hundreds of thousands photo ids before the elections? Notice a lot of these bills didn't go through until after the primaries.
How do they get to the voting location?
as i stated before unicorn,
how did they open that bank account WITHOUT proper I.D. ?? i for one wouldnt bank with anyone who would just hand out a card, do you?
la, I tell you this again, a lot of elderly established bank accounts years before id's were required, I know one who has had the same account with SunTrust here in Florida for over 25 years, your argument has no merit. There is no voter fraud.
s k y p a r r o t
How many elderly prople do you actually know?
skyparrot, you'd have to be incredibly naive to think there is no voter fraud. There may not be voter fraud on the scale of national conspiracy as many would have you believe, but to think there is no voter fraud at all is simply gullibility beyond comprehension.
Voter fraud does exist. And photo id won't do a thing to stop it. You still need to show recent utility bills to prove residence, and if you have that, a photo id is not required. You can submit absentee ballots without photo id, so what fraud does that stop?
Current voting procedures work better than the new photo ids and the new id requirements do not address the absentee ballot problem.
To come up with solutions you first have to define the problem. Obviously, the repubs defined problem does not include absentee ballots or proof of residence, it merely includes people who typically vote democrat.
TGMcCallie: Repeat after me - Voter REGISTRATION fraud is NOT the same as voter fraud.
If all you need is a VALID ss card or birth certificate to get a photo id, why aren't these valid to vote?
Congratulations NBC, a nice job of investigative reporting. I thought that was a lost art. Now if you can do the same for liberal causes and the contributions of George Soros. Soros just seem to hide quietly and shape liberal policies without media attention. Which candidates the Communist Party USA endorse?
The Communist Party did not endorse Obama in the first election. Don't see them doing it this time either, after the TARP.
Not true. The CPUSA did endorse Obama in 2008. Of course Obama is probably telling them to keep it low key this time.
ummmmm, BU,
who said "i will have more leeway after the election"? and it was said to ..........?
la, that was to the Russian Premier regarding the SALT treaty, get your head out of that old gnarly elephant's behind. There is no voter fraud.
Got any specifics of Soros influence? Or is this just an empty accusation void of any 'meat'?
Liar, liar, liar. ACORN turned in all registrations, as required by law, flagging those that seemed suspicious. Then they got slammed for turning in registration forms for 'Mickey Mouse.' At no time were they shown to have discarded registration forms.
This is another attempt by the GOP to manipulate things and in this case the ability to Vote, so that it works in their favor. It's as simple as that.
Anyone who believes this is being done because the GOP is so concerned about making things right, or justice for all, is naive. The GOP knows that most of the folks that may not have a Photo ID (But some other Non-Photo ID, etc.), are most likely the poor, who are less inclined to vote to a Republican and his BIG BUSINESS Backers.
It's that simple, and a case of deliberte manipulation to lean the elections in favor of Republicans.
Democrats had 40 years of reshaping voting districts to gain electoral advantage. You don't like it when the other side tries to beat you at your own game. What is more despicable, redrawing voting districts or requiring an ID to vote?
AJC: The poor also receive every kind of government benefit under the sun. And to receive any of those benefits, guess what?...they have to prove who they are by way of identification. So this BS that it will somehow disenfranchise someone who already has to prove who they are to receive benefits is total BS.
Beyond that, you have to prove who you are for almost anything else in life as well: To get a drivers licence, a student loan, a mortgage, fly on a plane, buy alcohol or tobacco, a gun, and a dozen other things in life.
If the illegal aliens in this country were likely to vote Republican, the liberals would be demanding that voter ID laws were in place.
Getting a valid ID for those who don't have them is not some incredibly difficult, arduous task. But it might be a bit harder if you shouldn't be here and shouldn't be voting in the first place.
I say the deliberate manipulation is on the part of liberals. And given the history of liberals doing exactly that combined with the refusal of congress (on both sides) to do anything about illegals, and the fact that ID is already required for government benefits, then requiring someone to prove who they are to keep them from voting illegally is totally logical. But then again, logic has never been a characteristic associated with liberals.
Road Warrior-252445
You don't like it when the other side tries to beat you at your own game.
Beat me? Who said I was a Democrat? I am an American, and I know when someone is trying to STEAL the Right to VOTE, to manipulate things.
Requiring IDs to vote in order to prevent people from voting is way more despicable.
Gerrymandering was invented by a dem governer of MA in 1812. Its a founding pillar of the party.
Republicans have also performed gerrymandering. It's in the history books. So not a new thing either.
excellent post, kuddos to you sir,......you may have a cookie..........:)
and with that, have a good day folks, im outta here..
LJ,
How do you figure that? If politicians redraw my district to take away votes from my party and hand the district to their party, my vote is automatically negated. That's why you have politicians like Rangel who has served a hundred years. You cannot take away someone's right to vote by asking for an ID, something they already have as pointed out by post #25-2.
This all boils down to us (the common people) against them (corporations and their cohort of Republicans)! These people want to control everything, and they'll stop at nothing to make that happen...
The Free Democratic Republic of America has been taken over!!
Peanut gallery- that governor belonged to what was called at the time the Democratic-Republican Party. I looked it up.
If "rights" are the standard, then there should be no identification requirement to buy a gun. Ever. Remember, the right is the standard here, not the common sense that tells anyone with a brain that it is perfectly logical to require an ID to buy a gun.
But, as usual in the liberal mind, one must make up one set of rules to support a specific argument, and those rules can not be applied to another argument even where the issue is also a right, because it will almost always contradict the original set of rules.
In this instance, liberals will tell you that the fact that buying a gun is a right does not matter, you must show ID, but when it comes to voting, then the right to vote suddenly is the dominant factor, and everyone should just be allowed to walk right in and vote without showing any ID at all. And hey, if they do it multiple times at multiple places, then that's just the cost of having that right, isn't it now?
Remember, the right is the standard, not the common sense that says knowing who is buying that gun is a good idea. The same goes for voting, but liberals can never make the connection...as long as most of those voting illegally continue to vote for Democrats that is.
Two arguments involving rights, but they must have two different sets of rules to support whichever side the liberal happens to come down on.
ConservativeNotRepublican:
Who would you be more afraid of - someone armed with a gun or someone armed with a vote?
I don't have a problem with trying to stop voter fraud, I just don't think a photo id does very much to stop it. Most voter fraud is via absentee ballots or people voting where they no longer live (including dead people).
Many polls required proof of residency, and that can be cross checked and verified. We have computers, and election workers could check utility bills against addresses.
Election workers could use E-Verify to check citizenship.
What more is needed? Why can't we use tools we already have instead of inventing new hoops for people to jump through? Unless, of course, the object is to target a specific class of citizen.
Given the supposedly "well regulated" militia intent of the 2nd amendment, there are far too many ways to purchase a firearm without an ID, ConservativeNotRepublican, such as from a private party, at some gun shows, and even buying muzzle-load and other types of guns directly without ID.
Sadly, there are not as many ways to vote in most states as there are ways to buy unregulated firearms. Are you in favor of the legislation that further restricts a right to vote that has worked for centuries, with 1 instance of voter fraud for every FIFTEEN MILLION VOTES? Then I'm sure, given your "common sense" test, you're absolutely in favor of new regulations on fixing those gaps in purchasing a firearm without ID.
How dare those terrible Republicans try and eliminate voter fraud. The nerve of them.
bleary: I guess that would depend on who has the gun.
However, my argument is based on the fact that owning a gun, as well as voting are both rights. Both of those rights are predicated on being an honest law abiding citizen. If you buy a gun illegally, then you have committed a crime. We have the right to own a gun, but we still have to meet a certain standard of responsibility to do it legally.
The same should apply for voting. And in the context that both are rights, both come with a level of responsibility on the part of the person engaging in either act. The right, in and of itself, does not exempt the person engaging in the right from a level of personal responsibility. That responsibility is set that so all citizens are protected from those who might abuse that right, whether it be in owning a gun or voting.
All I'm saying is be consistent in the level of responsibility you assign to those rights. If the concept of something being a right is the standard, you can not logically make the argument that right one should require ID, but the other shouldn't, since both have the potential for abuse and affecting the lives of others. Time frame of affect, i.e. shooting someone, which is immediate, vs. legislation passed because of someone voted into office, is not the point. The affect still takes place, regardless of when it may actually happen and both actions take place because someone exercised their right.
Enacting a higher barrier of attainment for one right over another (gun ownership vs. voting) is really saying that some rights are not as much of a right as others. If it is a right, then the same requirements that apply to one, should also apply to all.
Anyway, I'm gratified to know that you are also against voter fraud. At least we agree on that.
Jay: Not to turn this into a 2nd amendment issue, I will only say that if the Founding Fathers had only meant for the militia to have guns, then they would have said "the right of the militia to keep and bear arms", not the people. The writings of the Founding Fathers back this up, as well as numerous supreme court rulings.
As to your second point about buying guns. It might surprise you to know that I am actually in favor of having to show ID in order to buy a gun, regardless of who or where you buy it from. And I am absolutely in favor of closing the loopholes that would allow that to happen. Rights come with a certain level of personal responsibility. That responsibility must be applied to all rights equally.
If I am in favor of voter ID, (which I am), then I logically have to apply that same standard to purchasing a weapon. If someone says you should NOT have to show ID to buy a weapon, but SHOULD have to show an ID to vote, then I am just as appalled at the lack of logic in that argument as I am the other way around. Be consistent in the standard of attainment you apply to rights. That's all I'm saying.
jack-1792739:
Yes, "eliminate" a form of voter fraud that hasn't even been proven to exist in more than a handful of cases, while doing absolutely nothing about the forms that are actually significant.
But at least it will definitely eliminate that form, you know, because it would never occur to an illegal voter to do something like get a fake ID.