E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
John Makely / NBC News
Mark Wallace, right, talks with United Against Nuclear Iran Executive Director David Ibsen in the group's New York City offices.
Editor’s note: This story contains a graphic image that some readers may find disturbing.
Perched high above midtown Manhattan, behind security-locked doors in an unmarked office, a half-dozen 20-somethings sit at computers, looking for ways to inflict hardship on the Iranian government and the people it rules. The “war room,” as its occupants call it, is a mere 20 blocks from Iran’s Mission to the United Nations and even closer to the hotel where Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad stays during his visits to New York.
But this is not a U.S. government intelligence facility brimming with incoming feeds of classified data. The offices belong to the private nonprofit group United Against Nuclear Iran, and the computers contain a wealth of (mostly) open source economic data culled from Iranian and other sources.
UANI, as it calls itself, has one mission: to wage “economic warfare against the Islamic Republic of Iran ...The regime must be forced to choose between having a nuclear weapon or a functioning economy."
That’s not to say the group doesn’t have roots in government. It is headed by Mark Wallace, a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, and former heads of the CIA, the counterterrorism office of the National Security Council and the Mossad, Israel’s national intelligence agency, sit on its advisory board.
John Makely / NBC News
UANI printed up T-shirts for a recent protest against Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Part of what UANI does is psychological warfare, though it’s the smallest part. The group pays for a billboard high above Times Square that takes shots at Ahmadinejad and placed a blow-up Ahmadinejad punching-bag doll outside the Hotel Warwick when he stayed there recently while in town to address the United Nations. It also lobbies effectively, working with friendly congressmen to get sanctions strengthened.
Using 'name and shame' tactics
Mostly, it uses “reputational risk” to achieve its aims, trying to shame U.S. and international companies to end business dealings with the Islamic Republic or Iranian businesses, particularly those with Revolutionary Guard ties, even if those dealings aren't clearly in violation of economic sanctions against Iran. If those efforts don’t succeed, Wallace isn’t averse to using a bigger hammer: If you work with Iran, he is fond of saying, you shouldn’t get contracts from the U.S. government.
While the group’s impact is difficult to quantify vs. the overall impact of economic sanctions against Iran by the U.S., European Union and the United Nations, Wallace’s private network has contributed to some significant successes. Those include persuading an international money exchange to ban Iran and forcing Ahmadinejad out of his preferred New York hotels in September when he visited to deliver his final speech at the U.N. General Assembly as Iran’s president.
U.S. officials welcome the private group’s efforts, telling NBC News that UANI’s “name and shame” campaigns complement the government’s efforts to enforce the sanctions, which are limited to pursuing civil or criminal cases when companies are found to be in violation.
The public shaming is a familiar strategy -- with a twist. Activists demonstrated and demanded U.S. pension funds and university endowments divest stock in South African companies during the dying days of apartheid in the 1980s and ‘90s. The AFL-CIO and Harry Wu, a Chinese labor activist, exposed U.S. companies that used Chinese prison labor in the 1990s. And Chinese companies doing business in Sudan were accused in the early 2000s of aiding genocide in Darfur.
But UANI’s mission is more comprehensive and it’s led by a high-profile political figure, not a celebrity or anonymous activist. In addition to serving as U.S. ambassador, Wallace worked in the presidential campaign of Republican Sen. John McCain in 2008, working as vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin’s debate coach.
It’s also riskier and could backfire. Iran is not without the capability of striking back.
But Wallace feels comfortable that he’s on the side of right and believes he has a unique opportunity to affect history by forcing Iran to abandon its nuclear ambitions, which Tehran insists are intended to meet its energy needs, not build nuclear weapons. In his view, that begins with “crashing the currency.”
“You have all the elements that are there with the currency,” he said. “We measure everything we do. I challenge you to find a better mechanism of judging the impact of economic hardship that we're placing on the elites.”
UANI has a modest budget -- less than $700,000 in 2010, according to federal records – that it says it raises only from U.S. donors. It declines to identify them, citing security concerns.
But it claims some big results.
'Stealth sanctions' have big impact
The biggest was its lobbying of SWIFT, a Belgian-based international financial clearinghouse, to expel Iran, then pressuring the U.S. Congress to demand that SWIFT ban Iranian financial transactions from its worldwide network. Without SWIFT codes, international financial transactions become difficult, if not impossible, to complete. Since SWIFT expelled Iran on March 15, the value of the Iranian currency, the rial, has dropped precipitously.
Dan Yergin, the energy historian and author of “The Quest: Energy, Security, and the Remaking of the Modern World,” calls the SWIFT expulsion the “stealth sanctions.”
“Much of the international focus on sanctions has been on the oil side,” Yergin told NBC News. “But the SWIFT and other related banking restrictions have been the ‘stealth sanctions’ that are impacting on Iran’s ability to do business in the international economy.
“Less attention may have originally been paid to them, but they rank with the oil sanctions in terms of their effects on Iran. Overall, the … sanctions are imposing a much bigger cost on the Iranian economy than Tehran would have anticipated last winter and thus are creating a much bigger problem for the leadership.”
Now, UANI and Wallace want to strike harder. Iran’s currency, the rial, is near collapse, by some estimates having lost 80 percent of its value in the last year and 15 percent in the last week as measured against the dollar and euro. One dollar now equals 36,000 rials at the unofficial rate.
Iran, which for months resisted the suggestion that the sanctions were effective, now acknowledges that inflation, much of it caused by sanctions and the SWIFT ban, is hurting the economy.
In recent weeks, Wallace’s group publicly pressed European companies that it believed were supplying Iran with the special paper, inks and presses used to print Iranian currency to stop doing business with Tehran. In a letter early this month to the German company Koenig & Bauer AG, which had provided the Central Bank of Iran with presses in the past, Wallace demanded to know if the company was still supplying Iran, then raised the possibility that continuing work with Iran could threaten its business with the U.S. government.
Related stories
Man pleads guilty in plot to assassinate Saudi ambassador to US
Officials see Iran, not outrage over film, behind cyber attacks on US banks
Skulduggery at sea: Iran uses tankers off Malaysia to evade oil embargo
“UANI finds KBA’s apparent business in Iran particularly galling in light of its extensive contracts with the U.S. Department of Treasury and its role in U.S. banknote production,” Wallace wrote. “KBA has been the recipient of over $131 million in contracts from the U.S. Treasury’s Bureau of Engraving and Printing, in addition to $2.39 million awarded to KBA subsidiary KBA North America by the U.S. Department of Defense.
“UANI strongly believes that the only responsible action for KBA in light of the fact that the CBI is a sanction-designated entity under U.S. and EU law is for KBA to immediately and publicly reject CBI solicitations for KBA services.”
On Wednesday, KBA told NBC News that it had stopped supplying printing presses to Iran nine years ago.
But in a written response to Wallace dated Oct. 10, KBA acknowledged it had provided “spares and auxiliary equipment” to its “Iranian client” since then. KBA also said that early this year, it submitted a “conditional offer” to the Central Bank of Iran when it sought bids on a contract to for new banknote machines.
Ultimately, KBA decided to discontinue sales to Iran, not long before it received Wallace’s letter, it said.
The lack of such equipment could have the added benefit of making Iranian currency more susceptible to counterfeiting, perhaps by an enemy of Iran, Wallace said. That uncertainty about the rial would make it even less valuable on whatever open markets on which it was still exchanged.
KBA’s rapid response to Wallace is indicative of UANI’s growing clout in the international business community.
As a result of actions like these, “regime change” in Iran is now being discussed seriously in Washington policy circles. Wallace won’t say whether that is his specific goal, but acknowledges that virtually any alternative would be preferable to the current “theocratic regime.”
Beyond SWIFT, Wallace said UANI’s efforts have led to dozens of agreements from U.S.-based and other international companies agreeing to stop doing business with Iran.
In some cases, trading partners have credited UANI in announcing their decisions to stop doing business with Iran. In others, they have not.
Targeting Iran's auto industry
Iran has the world’s 13th largest auto manufacturing industry and the largest in the Middle East and Central Asia. The industry is a major employer and a prestige piece for the Iranians. Not every country’s president can boast that his limousine is built in a local factory. Ahmadinejad can.
Numerous European and Asian auto companies had supplied parts and “build kits” to Iran. But UANI lobbied the companies early this year and again “called them out,” as Wallace put it. He again cited the EU and U.N. sanctions and suggested that a publicity campaign would hurt U.S. sales of their cars.
Of the companies targeted in the campaign -- Hyundai, Fiat, Peugeot, Porsche and Renault – Wallace says only the latter continues to supply Iran.
A Renault spokeswoman, Raluca Barb, told NBC News on Thursday that the company's Iranian venture, Renault Pars, in which it owns a 51 percent interest, does not violate the sanctions.
“Renault respects the regulations,” she said. “The automotive business is not included in sanctions against Iran.”
The Hyundai Motor Co. said it decided to discontinue operations in Iran after being contacted by UANI. The other auto companies that are no longer doing business with Iran didn’t cite UANI’s campaign, but numerous Iranian press accounts have connected the pullout to the threatened publicity blitz.
The auto company withdrawals contributed to a 42 percent nosedive in Iranian auto production over the past six months, Agence France Press reported last week, citing industry ministry figures.
UANI also says it forced Caterpillar, the huge U.S.-based construction company, to stop supplying equipment to Iran. After a letter-writing campaign failed, UANI bought a billboard opposite the company’s headquarters in Peoria, Ill., showing a piece of earth-moving equipment alongside a photo of Ahmadinejad and the words, “Today’s work, tomorrow’s nuclear Iran.” As soon as the company halted the sales in February 2010, the billboard came down.
At the time, Caterpillar said it did not have extensive business dealings with Iran, and that it couldn’t control sales in the secondary market. But it did bar non-U.S. subsidiaries from accepting orders that it knew were destined from Iran.
The company did respond to requests from NBC News this week for comment.
Vahid Salemi / AP file
Two Iranian police officers look at the dangling body of Mohammed Bijeh, convicted of raping and murdering 16 children, after he was hanged from a construction crane in a public execution in Pakdasht, Iran, on March 16, 2005.
The most vivid of UANI’s efforts was its “cranes campaign.” After grisly images emerged showing of Iranians being hung by construction cranes, UANI tracked down all the crane manufacturers who had done business with Iran and asked them to divest. For the most part, they did.
There are other less obvious successes, like pressuring all 13 of the world’s major shipping registries, including those in Russia, South Korea, and Japan, to deny Iran access to their services. That, in turn, has prevented the regime and from insuring their tankers. UANI also quietly obtained pledges from Moldova, Mongolia and other nations to stop reflagging Iranian vessels.
Not all of its initiatives have worked, however.
Its biggest campaign has been against MTN, the South African cell phone company that owns 49 per cent of Irancell, which controls the mobile market in Iran and has been accused of tracking Iranian dissidents. But MTN has refused to get out.
Last week, Wallace excoriated MTN’s leadership in typical, no-holds-barred language. “It is widely known that MTN has carried out orders from the Iranian regime to shut off text messaging and Skype during times of political protest in Iran, and reportedly has a floor in its Tehran headquarters where Iranian military officials compile and access data to track, apprehend, torture, and murder regime opponents,” he wrote in a letter to the company that also went out as a press release.
“MTN has blood on its hands … We call for a global boycott of MTN's products and services and divestment from its stock, until it ends its reckless partnership,” he concluded.
'A liberating force for Iranians'
MTN did not immediately respond to Wallace’s most-recent broadside, but in a press release in February in reply to an earlier letter, it said its investment in Iran was “in compliance with applicable sanctions regulations and law” and that it viewed its non-controlling stake in Irancell as being in keeping with its core mission: “to speed up the progress of the emerging world by enriching the lives of the people within it.”
“Our success in widening access to mobile technology has been, and continues to be, a liberating force for Iranians, whatever their political allegiances,” it said. “Mobile technology has brought communities together, empowered individuals and helped raise living standards for millions in the developing world. MTN is proud of this legacy.”
Swatch, the Swiss watch manufacturer, has also resisted UANI’s appeals, saying in a letter to Wallace that it “sells to consumers, not regimes.” Why would UANI, which is concerned with nuclear proliferation, care about watches? Because, Wallace said, the high-end watches Swatch sells and other luxury items go to the “elites,” particularly officials of the Revolutionary Guards, and he wants them to feel the pain of sanctions, even if only on their wrists.
UANI’s allies in Congress give it high praise.
“What I like,” said Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the Florida Republican who chairs the House Foreign Affairs Committee, “is they are in the weeds. You name a sector in the Iranian economy and they have been inside it, putting a lot of pressure on them. We’ve worked with them, especially on embargo and sanctions legislation. So many of the bills had their genesis with them.”
The campaign also finds favor on the other side of the aisle.
“Part of their approach involves putting pressure on corporations to end existing business relationships with Iran,” said Rep. Steve Israel, D-N.Y. “Along with their success on that front, UANI has used that experience to communicate effectively with members of Congress on how best to strengthen existing sanctions and ensure companies are complying with our laws.”
One major concern about the success of the sanctions is that the Iranians might lash out, having tired of seeing their nuclear scientists assassinated, their nuclear research sabotaged, their currency ravaged.
That may already be happening. U.S. officials ascribe continuing attacks on U.S. banks’ computer networks that began last month to Iran, perhaps in response to U.S. and EU sanctions on its banks. Israel claims Iran was behind the drone mission Hezbollah carried out over northern Israel this week, and Hezbollah acknowledged that the unmanned aircraft that was shot down was manufactured in Iran. And Tehran still has many other options for retaliation, experts say.
“The main concern for the market is that the Iranian regime acts out in desperation, as the financial noose tightens,” said John Kilduff of Again Capital and a CNBC oil analyst. “If Iran attempts to make good on its threats to close the Strait of Hormuz or attempts some other attack, prices will spike higher, at least temporarily. If, however, there is regime change in Iran, resulting in a Western-friendly government, we could see the mother of all price breaks at the gasoline pump.”
'Punishing the innocent'
There are those who also characterize what Wallace and UANI are doing as harming the Iranian people rather than the government.
John Makely / NBC News
UANI Executive Director David Ibsen works in the "war room" of the organization's offices.
“It is profoundly immoral. It is punishing the innocent,” said Haroon Moghul, a fellow at both the New American Foundation and the Fordham Law School Center for Security, speaking of UANI’s campaign.
“I'm no fan of Iranian government,” he continued. “I wish it would go away. But what do the people have to do with the government? It is weakening the people of Iran. We are making harder for them to change their government. Sanctions empower criminal elements, make it harder to civil society to operate, make it harder for Iran to become a real democracy.”
Reacting to that kind of criticism, Wallace acknowledges that his and his colleagues are involved in “a proxy war,” but adds, “I'm comfortable fighting that war.”
The Iranian Foreign Ministry said it is aware of the efforts of UANI and Wallace, but says the group’s campaign is misguided.
“I think that the nature of this organization is known to all of us,” said the spokesman, Alireza Miryusefi. “They take actions based on the false presumption that my country is pursuing a nuclear weapon program. As we have emphasized on several occasions, Iran's program is fully peaceful and their presumption is totally wrong.”
Wallace, however, has no doubts that Iran is bent on becoming a nuclear military power, and remains convinced that the pressure that UANI is bringing to bear will ultimately succeed.
“Our message is clear: You have to choose between doing business with our checkbook or their checkbook -- with the reality being we're the biggest checkbook in the world,” he said. “Notwithstanding the purported demise of the United States, we're still the biggest checkbook in the world.”
Richard Engel is chief foreign correspondent of NBC News; Robert Windrem is a senior investigative producer.
More from Open Channel:
Follow Open Channel from NBCNews.com on Twitter and Facebook
Leave a Comment:
Sanctions work. So does bad publicity. Good job UANI.
I like that T-Shirt..I want to get on of those. I think ALL Americans should get one, and set aside one day that EVERYONE..from CEO to Janitor wears that to work. Kids wear them to school. Pass them out to the homeless on the streets. EVERYONE.
I was thinking the same thing. I'd love to have one of those.
I want the same shirt, but with the word China.
Morning Chef! Whats for breakfast? Now WHY did MSN bury this story already?
Why isn't Obama the one doing this? Where is HIS intelligence? Could it be he REALLY doesn't care about Israel?
UANI should post a list of all of the companies doing business with Iran so the American consumer can decide whether or not to do business with that company.
I'll not buy a Swatch watch or a Renault.
GM FED!!!
i'd love some breakfast before i hit the hay. haven't been to bed yet.
Thank GOD for responsible organizations.
Just another example of private enterprise doing a job better and cheaper than the government.
I have no problem with the hanging, as long as the man was found guilty. A rapist of that many children should be hanged.
However, Islam doctrine says children at the age of seven can be and regurlarly ARE married and soon aftewards consumated.
I don't know where the pope or vatican is in all this, or why he hasn't called Crusade to Mecca and Terhan. Since the last crusades, South America or Central America were not part of the Catholic Church yet. That's just one outlet friends. Understand that Islam will and always have a war against NON MUSLIM, that includes atheist. I wish people would understand how heavy handed Islam is, perhaps this can explain it better than I ever can....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qrybtztJw&playnext=1&list=PL_PliyQdJ90HkagR_Mr4birabxQuCjYUM&feature=results_video
Understand that is the Co-Founder of Hezbollah, the Co-Founder of the Iranian Revolutionairy Army, an Islamic militant, explaining what Islam is and how he changed. The fact that he KNOWS the Quran, and states that Muhammed married and consumated his wife (one of) at the age of 7 to 9, this is scripture people, according to Islam.
Do not believe the liberal media when they tell you Islam is a peaceful religion. There are hundreds of verses in their scripture that preach violence against ALL non-muslim. TO those of you who say the Old Testament preaches violence as well, I encourage you to get out of the Old and into the New Testament as it is the foundation for Christendom.
We've become so civilized that we think sanctions are going to change their views on the United States.
It only makes them hate us more, expel Muslims from the U.S. for in knowing the principles of FREE WILL we know that everything cannot be introduced into the same place, it introduces conflict. A non-muslim cannot even fly over mecca in a plane! Such is their tolerance of non-muslims. Get a Crusade going, get bombers and cruise missles running round the clock strikes, kick in every one of their doors, expel them or kill them all together, it is the lesser of two evils.
"If we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved." Niccolo Machiavelli
"Kill them all, God will recognize his own." ~Arnaud Amalric
I can understand the worries people may have on some of the worlds issues. I am concerned however of private citizens medling in foriegn affairs. Anglena Jolen and Brad Pitt and other celebrities poking around for publicity and groups like this one may be doing more harm that the good they are trying to do. It is had to see if there is a net positive or net negitive from actions like this.
I notice nobody mentions Koch Industries and their sales to Iran....
Name names!!
Barry needs tougher sanctions!
I bet NONE from Barry.......he prefers to spend OUR money on his "friends" in the middle east!
That's nonsense! It's all nice for the feel good factor, to titillate Americans and make them feel their country is still able to bully everyone around the world. But as you go on doing this, resentment against the U.S. around the world rises, sometimes even legitimising reactive dictators that otherwise would have been pushed off the scene by their own people. There is something seriously wrong with the American imperial psyche. But who can make Americans see the light?
Let's do the same for Isreal since no country in the world is more dangerous or more ruthless than they are - and they have 50 nukes! They dragged us into invading Iraq which killed 4500 U.S. Serviceman and almost destroyed whatever goodwill we have left with the world. If Israel is allowed to drag us into a war with Iran - both of us will be relgated to a downward spiral we won't be able to climb out of. Good for Zionism - not good for us! BSD Israel - leave Iran alone...
Ha ha! What a great 'non profit' front for a joint CIA and Mossad operation!
Astounding, you DO know that the quote "Kill them all the lord will know his own" was said in regards to the slaughter in the French town of Minerve...the pope was going after OTHER CHRISTIANS, the Cathars, who were considered a heresy, NOT Muslims. This was in response to a question by a soldier who wanted to know who to kill because the heretics looked just liked everyone else.
Good morning RIght WIng Ideologues FedupwithFed, Janine, etc. Trotting out the old Obama hate regardless of the story, huh? long for the good old days when if we didn't like a regime we would merely start a trilllion dolllar war with no hope of achieving anything. GOood luck, ideiologues; I believe it willl be a rough fouyr years for you coming up as you watch the President use his displomatic skillls o keeep a lid on alll the turmoil in the Midddle East. BTW - have you noticed that there is no major new war in the MIddle East, Iran stilll has no nukes and we are bringing trooops home. NOt bad for the "Worst President ever" as you subnormals call him from time to time. ANd a tip of the hat to the poster who was clever enough to refer to the President by the name Barrry; that shows true wit. Oh, and the scorecard - Dead on U.S. soil due to terrrorism during Buish Presidency approximately 5,000 - dead on U.. Soil due to terrror during Obama Presidency - about 20 - even alllowing for doubling of Obama's numbver that makes 40 which is much bettter than 5,000. ENjoy thse facs as they are invontyrovertible - unlike your crazy claims about Obama being a Muslim etc.
It's program is peaceful, which is why the have hundreds of facilities spread through out the country and located under ground?????? And pay no attention to the daily rhetoric of how soon they will be able to destroy Israel. Who buys this nonsense?
How can you afford to have a full time staff of 20 highly skilled professionals in NY and a big office in a midtown Manhattan high rise on an annual budget of less than $700,000? You can't. That is why it is clearly a front for a covert CIA/Mossad operation.
Hey FedupwithFed,
I'll betcha 9 out of 10 people caught doing business with Iran are HARD CORE GOP.
Yea he is doing such a good job, how many embassies have been attacked and protested again? Yemen, Egypt, Jordan, Libya, ect... I mean just because the deaths in Libya were the first of it's kind in 30 years no one should think he is doing a bad job.
Iran has been getting closer to getting nukes, and we have had more deaths and injuries in Afghanistan under Obama in four years then Bush in 8 years! Do some research before you talk out your a$$.
"Under former President George W. Bush, 575 American soldiers died and fewer than 3,000 were wounded in Afghanistan. This means under Obama, at least 1,405 soldiers have died and nearly 15,000 additional soldiers have been wounded, which means 70% of the deaths and nearly 80% of the injuries in Afghanistan have occurred under Obama’s watch."
http://www.unitedagainstnucleariran.com/about
"It is headed by Mark Wallace, a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, and former heads of the CIA, the counterterrorism office of the National Security Council and the Mossad, Israel’s national intelligence agency, sit on its advisory board."
This says all about UANI. Sunni Saudi, oil companies and lobbyists funding may be behind the scenes!
The same bunch of seventh century dancers were busy before Iraqi wars.
Remove sanctions on Iranian oil to crash oil prices.
It was around $40 in 2009 and now more than $110 with sanctions.
Were they sleeping when Pakis got nukes?
Iran can buy/steal Paki nukes!
Talk about interest groups hijacking a democracy: here they go again!
It's people like you who think America's goal should be to be liked around the world who make things worse. I don't care if murderers and thugs in the middle east who oppress their people like us. I want America to be respected, not liked, and not feared. (Although I would rather we were feared then liked). It is easy to be liked, just let other countries screw you over, and don't stand for anything other than getting along. I would rather America consistently stand on some principles and beliefs than change their views and stance more than the seasons change. Stand up for what is right and the thugs will hate you but everyone good and evil will respect you for standing by your beliefs.
LOL....and let me guess, you're voting for Romney, who not only has investments in China, but he puts American companies out of business, fires American workers, and move's those jobs to China.
It's ok, they're republican, and Romney supporters.
And how many deaths in Iraq under the Bush administration, when many republicans say Iraq was the wrong place to be, that we should have continued the fight in Afghanistan since that was the Taliban/al Queda stronghold? Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), was not founded until 2003 in response to the illegal invasion of Iraq under Bush. The Taliban is most definitely Afghanistan...what's funny is, The Taliban gained diplomatic recognition from none other than Saudi Arabia, one of the "Bush" family's BFF's!
Talk about talking out your ass.
exactly, as these acts of war against iran punish only the people, not ahmadinejad who is leaving the presidency next summer. as pat buchanan recently noted "...the consensus by 16 U.S. intelligence agencies in 2007, reaffirmed in 2011, that Iran has no nuclear weapons program." there is ZERO proof that iran has enriched uranium past 20 percent, 90 percent needed to make a nuclear weapon. iran has no nukes, wants no nukes, and no proof to the contrary. sanctions and embargoes are an act of war. we need to stay out of this altogether, as our founders told us ....
If Jimmy Carter had a set of balls and not peanuts we would not have this problem today...NO BO IN 13...
Lizard is right, looks like they missed the Kochs...
625000 dead Civil War, 116000+ dead WWI, 405366 dead WWII, 36516 dead Korean War, 58209 dead Viet Nam War 6000000 Jews dead holocaust. There. Does that make your day? I hate it when people use the death of our servicemen to beat some one over the head with. And I'll bet if you were able to ask the soldiers who died in the war on terror who dragged them into that war, not one of them would say it was the Jews. They would say it was radical Islamist and radical dictators like sadam and Mahmoud. So the Jews have 50 nuclear weapons. So what? It is a credit to them that they haven't blown Iran off the face of the earth. Instead they live every day with the threat that the madman of Iran hurls at them.
Good; then if sanctions don't work Morgan Stanley can invade. Nothing spells success like a CEO in battle-rattle.
Because the Kochs are protected by the GOP.
Ahhh but, Enrich John, the unpaid for Afghanistan and iraq wars are coming to an end and the welfare queens of this country (defense spend is ~700b for 2013, 3rd largest outlay of all budget funds) are in need of another war so that they can validate their ever increasing budget request.....
An individual cannot change the world, however by avoiding or not purchasing products that directly affect the human race negatively. So as an example, we have a store in our community that trades in Ivory products, so although I enjoy the other products sold in that store, I refuse to do business with them as I have seen the cruelty that animal poachers have done to elephants. So I'm probably not going to change their business practises, I know I am not contributing to that trade.
So if you feel strongly enough and you know that a company is doing business with Iran, then just stop doing business with them, if they ask why then tell them directly. If you are anti China, then you just stop buying Chinese products, simple.
How do you know their land lords aren't supplying the office as a tax deductible write off?
They are a non-profit, and there are numerous scenarios as to how their budget could be adequate!
There goes astounding and his uneducated, uninformed hate mongering !
Logic Required. A goood p[iece of sophistry about Afghanistan. Obama has acted prudently in regqards to the military since he's beeen in offfice. It would have been nice - but probabloy bad for U.S. long term interest if he had just pullled the plug on the whole operation a la' the Soviets before us. As far as the embasssies being bombed -there is no way you can control thugs on the streeets of a hostile nation. e.g. look what happpened to the marine barrracks in Lebanaon during Reagan's term.He cut an ran.
The challenges for America are obvious. Time is running out for a diplomatic solution to the nuclear program that Israel regards as an existential threat. We’ve come to a very critical juncture where important decisions do have to be made. Iranian leaders have given “no sign of reacting” to sanctions and “no sign of showing flexibility at the negotiating table! A nuclear-armed Iran would be able to “commit incalculable atrocities” and that the window for diplomacy to avert that “is now almost closed.” America has reached the tipping point in a global conflict in which victory for freedom over world tyranny lays in the balance. Iran is one step away from establishing a nuclear terrorist empire. In reality, the greatest threat to our nation and the free world is now Iran and Obama‘s foreign policy. Once Iran has nuclear weapons, there is no question they will use them against Israel, America and American interests around the world!!! Those in the intelligence community say “End this dangerous game. Destroy Iran’s terrorist nuclear facilities now. America, Israel, and the Free World will not survive a nuclear-armed Iran.“
Others say the threat of a counter attack that will ultimately destroy Iran will hold them in check. However, experts in understanding radical Islam suggest Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, hopes to use a nuclear war in a misguided and mentally unbalanced effort to set in motion the return of the 12th Imam. It is said, “There is a radical difference between the Islamic Republic of Iran and other governments with nuclear weapons. This difference is expressed in what can only be described as the apocalyptic worldview of Iran’s present rulers.” In other words, Iran doesn’t fear retaliation if they attack Israel or the United States because due to their mentally unbalanced and radical view in which they believe a final global struggle against an evil enemy will present them with the privileges of martyrdom as taught in Islam.” In other words, death is not a deterrent to nut cases. Ahmadinejad seems to believe “that the hand of God is guiding him to trigger a series of cataclysmic events which could precipitate the return of the 12th Imam and that these cataclysmic events to prepare the way for Shiite Muslims’ awaited messiah.
I applaud the America patriots at UANI and thank God for their efforts!!! In dramatic contrast to the American patriots at UANI, President Obama continues to pledge American financial support and friendship to Islamic leaders whose followers are being directed to kill American infidels while he simultaneously undermines our relationship on Israel! This is why many in the intelligence community believe Obama‘s misguided and weak foreign policy combined with what is perceived to be mentally unbalanced leadership in Iran, presents the greatest threat to our nation and the free world in our history! Without strong leadership in the Whitehouse and unless we face Iran now, it is suggested it will not much matter who will be President in 2013.
Wow, the idiocy here is astounding. I am an American who follows politics, both domestic and international closely and have since I was young. Measures like this should certainly not be supported by Americans and definitely not by our elected leaders.
The reason the younger population within Iran is discontent with their government is because of the slow Westernizing of their culture through amenities that have come into their country, namely businesses and products that make daily life easier. So let's take away all we can, so these people can live in dirt with no technology, no common amenities to have a stable daily life or a daily small business. Let's get mad at their cell phone carriers...yeah..let's take away their cell phones and other technology. The only thing connecting them to the rest of the civilized world. It was precisely that kind of technology that allowed for the free flow of information when Egypt revolted and gave us details about what was going on ground level...which was at the core of the revolution in It seems you're not seeing the big picture here. Yes, we want the people to revolt. Yes, we want them to see why the principles of a free economy are better than a highly controlled one and protest their government to change its ways. Yes, we want their leaders to not arm with nuclear weapons. All of these goals though have to be targetted at the government.
It is morally bankrupt to make no distinction in targetting the people rather than the government...it is not the people's burden to bear because they happen to geographically live in a place with a failed leader. The people are just living cyclical means of life,very apart from their government- having no bearing on intrinsic details of what ensues, just getting by...just like most Americans. Your hatred for their government is blinding you to the real damage you are doing to people who are much like you.
I understand people here in America wanting revolution there, but you can't hope that we'll have any type of influence when their leader falls if the Iranian people's economy has collapsed due to American influences. None of these measures UANI pursues ever hit the elites that run/have power or influence anyway. They always have other means of getting by. They only hurt the people at the basic, bare-floor consumer level... the exact people that we're relying on to revolt.
As a sidenote, we have enough problems with our own failed economy. Congressmen should throw less weight behind things like this and worry more about how we're gonna dig out of this hole. Just another distraction for all the sheep to rally around though. Don't think about our screwed economy, brown people are dangerous.
Remember, we need an overthrow there, yes. But we need it to be from the people because they realize that their theocratic government is wrong for them. We need them to replace that leader with someone who is better and more progressive. If you starve these people through means like this, they will revolt when their daily lives get bad enough and put into power anyone who will make their lives even slightly better (even if he's the same type of tyrant). The cycle will then repeat itself. We need the people to stand up themselves, and we will back them when they do. We do not need to meddle through the daily economy level and force this situation before it's ready. As we've seen with Iraq, it can have disasterous consequences.
Undermine our relationship with Israel? If only he would. F Israel. Stop all aid to Israel. Renounce every agreement we have with Israel. Stop voting for dual loyalty Jews in our government. People like Eric Cantor, Steny Hoyer, Diane Feinstein and Eliot Engle, do not care what happens to America. Their concern is Israel, Israel Israel. I made a mistake calling them dual loyalty. They have but one loyalty and that is to Israel.
Those would be concrete steps to get America back on track. The "special relationship" must end.
Hey Neo-Con...have the Kochs violated federal law? Why would the president go up against them? That's a waste of his time and our tax dollars. And speaking of weaklings...Do you know who Willard's main donors are? Yep...Koch Brothers, Karl Rove and Karl's Crossroads GPS. Willard has hired GW Bush's old Neo-Conservative advisers. He is owned by the same people who owned GW Bush.
By the way, all his talk about not lowering taxes on the wealthy...Grover Norquist and the Republicans in Congress will decide what he lowers or raises.
If you liked Bush you'll love Romney!
@wire557,
Silly.......Maybe he is a Heterosexual and doesn't like Koch
:)
@And the fact still remains,
Re: "Because the Kochs are protected by the GOP"
Would that make the GOP athletic supporters with a cup to protect their Kochs ?
Are you kidding me? Why are you so frightened? We survived a nuclear armed Soviet Union, a nuclear armed communist China, a nuclear armed Pakistan and India, a nuclear armed North Korea, a nuclear armed Israel...how exactly is Iran a greater threat. We are the only nation on the face of the earth to have used nuclear weapons on another country. It seems to me we are a greater threat to world peace than Iran.
If Iran developed a weapon today...what do you suppose the yield would be? You state "Israel regards as an existential threat". Not all Israeli's consider it so. Even the Israeli military tends to play down the actual threat. Either you simply don't understand or your fear mongering is intentional. I suppose if Iran developed a weapon this afternoon and managed to come up with a delivery system they could, possibly strike Israel. What do you suppose the response would be? Do you think the Iranians are so ignorant that they do not understand how quickly they would burn in a nuclear hell?
You neo-conservatives seem to have a problem with equivalencies. Not only as it relates to politics but even concerning world events. Iran could possibly, within a couple of years, field perhaps a couple of weapons in the 18-20 Kilo ton range. Where as they would be subject to retaliation from the United States...5,113 warheads averaging perhaps, what...25 Mega Ton? Do you suppose the US has at least 1 Ohio class boomer within range of Tehran and every military base and nuclear facility in Iran?
What creeps me out is the possibility that young Americans who never experienced the Cold War will actually take you seriously. I would suggest you seek treatment but unfortunately there is no effective treatment for "the conservative brain" ...google it.
You really should change your moniker from ClearVoice to FearVoice...much more fitting.
Why yes...yes it would.
.
Lets not forget those Centifuges (used for uranium refinement) that was sold to Iran by Cheeny, Haliburton/KBR. Oh -- but I bet these guys will give them a free pass of course -- (Biased much?). See I noticed they also went after Catapillar Industris, yet ignored the GOP/Reagan heavy equipment company "Grove Industries".... I have no problem with them going after the companies and nailing tehm to the wall... As a matter of fact I think that is long overdue.. But If your going after the companies, make sure your going after all of them equally.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html
jmcrowle - excellent post.
The reality is that sanctions bring ordinary citizens to their knees - not the government of the country , if anything the people will rally with a government they formerly disliked.
Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/17/iran-sanctions-lives-at-risk
How quickly we forget the number of children under five who died under US led sanctions in Iraq: 500,000 dead CHILDREN - not counting adults - and that was during the first 5 years of sanctions...the actual number now is well over a million dead - starvation, no medicine, etc...
Does anyone really think that killing the most innocent of civilians (children) - is going to win the hearts and minds of the country we did that too? It's barbaric at best - it's a slow painful death.
Link: http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1084
I do not think the price is worth it - if the US wants to feel safe - it should be in the business of not killing innocent children!
I vote to stop giving Ralph H his antipsychotic medication because it has not benifitted him and is costing us taxpayers a lot of money. Just keep him in a padded room with IV feedings and occasional feeds from the news agencies in Teheran until he completely decompensates and believes he is Ahmadinijad. Then send him to Iran where he'll be able to enjoy the right to post his hateful messages. Ralph H: How about providing a balanced view for a change? Also, would you please direct me to one of your postings where you have condemned the shooting of the Pakistani girl?
then please explain why you need nuclear material at 20% enriched and why you are going even higher than that? this is not an assumption by any means its a fact. just for you that do not know, you cant use anything 20% or higher for energy (they use Oil for energy because they have tons of it) you cant use 20%+ for medical uses. It is only for further enrichment into weapons grade you cant use 20% for ANYTHING else.. No Iran we don't buy your crap (in more ways than one)
U.S. taxpayers do not pay for whatever medications they use in the middle east.
@Black kettle
I think sanctions are a bad idea and Iran does not care about its people. We should just go blow those Nuclear facilities to hell and blame the attack on hmmm Canada :)
If the majority of the World wants to truly get tough on Iran, we should refuse to do business with any country which does business with Iran.
Start refusing to accept the import any iPads, iPhones or anything being shipped into Wal-mart and you would see CHINA change their stance on Iran REAL quick.
THAT is how you end this. $$$$, its what makes the world go 'round.
Three Cheers for the technogeeks at UANI!!
Thank God there's still a few "20-something" aged people that know what to do with their computers besides play video games.
Ol_Doc
By virtue of your own handle, one can only assume your are well past your prime and unable to grasp today's for complex social and geopolitical issues as a function of dimished mental acutity! Your grasp of the facts at hand is appaling!
There are two basic types of intellegence relating to the “application of reason” in this matter. You see, what scientists refer to as “fluid intelligence” or the ability to analyze, process and retain new information actually peaks around age 20. However, the requisite component required in the “application of reason to such analysis” is actually “crystallized intelligence” which tends to increase with age.
Unfortunately for you Old DOC, these two divergent trajectories intersected at 53.3 years of age with the optimum cognitive function sweet spot being proven to be between age 43 and 63. In your case, you should also be cognizant of the fact mental acuity and the ability to
analyze, process and retain information drops off "rapidly" on the right side of the bell curve beyond age 63.
Sorry to rain on your delusional liberal parade, but you are out of your league here!!! So, for the benefit of slow learners like you I will repeat that “There is a radical difference between
the Islamic Republic of Iran and other governments with nuclear weapons. This difference is expressed in what can only be described as the apocalyptic worldview of Iran’s present rulers.” Read that twice and write it down once. Maybe you can learn something in the process!
FlearVoice2 -
Exceptionally detailed attempt to deflect, remarkable really. You used four paragraphs to impress me with your knowledge of senile dementia, would that be first hand knowledge? ...but I digress.
In the course of four paragraphs, you didn't actually dispute my statements...not one! The best you could do is to provide your interpretation of the Iranian world view (at least as seen through the FOX filter). If you remember I mentioned as one of the nations, North Korea. This is a nation which has not only invaded it's neighbor, threatens other nations in the region, threatens this country directly on a semi-regular basis, killed innocent civilians as a political provocation but also sold weapons to rogue nations and terrorists. Yet you in your deep and dark anti-Muslim paranoia, consider Iran, who has only offered up rhetoric, a greater threat than North Korea.
In two specific cases the United States very nearly fought a nuclear war with the Soviet Union, once during the Cuban Missile Crisis and later a NORAD computer screw-up. We're talking about a full-on thermonuclear exchange capable of obliterating not only the US and the Soviet Union but most of the Northern Hemisphere...and to you Iran is a greater threat.
If you can't attack the message...attack the messenger.
"When they show you who they are...believe them"
Derek-381097, you have lost your reporting privileges since you are abusing them.
These people are Israeli agents. There is no evidence that Iran is producing a nuclear weapon. There is considerable evidence that they are not. They never said they would take action to wipe Israel "off the map" as Western propagandists contend. On the other hand, Iran needs a nuclear weapon in order to forestall Israeli aggression.
How's the weather today in Iran???
indigena, no evidence? Why does Iran continue to refine materials uranium beyond the requirement for a power plant?
Hate Israel much?
Old article but it gets the point across.
http://articles.cnn.com/2005-10-26/world/ahmadinejad_1_israel-jerusalem-day-islamic-world?_s=PM:WORLD
Of course, there's a lot more where this one came from.
wow...indigena is either the product of our failed inner-cities schools or the spawn of some hippie in the 1960's conceiving while on LSD.
I bet they never said they would strike US bases either?
liarinpolitics. you should study politics a bit more. the liars are people like joe lieberman, graham, and mccain and nutcaseyahoo who want to get us into another unjust war. If you believe your own spy agencies, all 16 of them have said that iran is not working on nuclear bomb. the 20% enriched uranium is for the medical isotopes to treat cancer patients, which Iran has agreed to stop, if u.s eases the sanctions and then provide them with the isotopes. It is all about isreal and I agree with indegina that this is not a non profit organization. It is an isreali backed organization which profit israel. as of yet Iran is #1 buyer of u.s grain. that is a huge income to us and the farmers who are strugling and has nothing to do with the iranian government. I think this whole sanction policy is out of touch with the reality that if you weaken people, the likelihood of them to try to change things for the better diminishes. we should really worry about isreal and how they are running the u.s government through their agents here. It seems to me that the priority for isreal has become more important than america.
realitychuck
Piss on Israel if you are so worried about that nation of racist pack your bags and move there. There is no proof Iran is trying to build a bomb other than the delusions of Benny Nuttyahoo. He has been crying Iran is getting the bomb for two decades now and still no bomb. All intelligence agency's even Israels saying they are not trying to get a bomb. So of you idiots need to do a little research instead of blindly believing Zionist propaganda.
Sad ,,, the blind hatred for a country just trying to defend its people. I have seen first hand the little Iran school girls and boys reciting prayers to Alla. That the nation of Israel be destroyed. News flash never going to happen.. The good guy wins in the end.. over and done. No amount of child brainwashing will help you now. Your time is near its end ,,, I hope you like barbecue, because its hot down there.
It is funny how North Korea openly claims to have atomic weapons capable of reaching US mainland (which is most likely true) and nobody in Washington DC seems worried, but every US politician is foaming at the mouth whenever there is a mention of the Iranian nuclear program which may or may not actually produce a bomb years down the road. All these traitors care about is pleasing Israel.
allahu snackbar!!!!
Today's special - Mighty Prophet brand fried pork rinds on sale, buy one, get one free. Full of mohamatty goodness!!
In any conflict between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. DEFEAT JIHAD!!
Total Mossad/AIPAC operation.
Americans are so easily led and succkered.
If Iran needs nukes, they are on sale in Pakistan. Why don't the tenth century Islamic religious nuts (Shiites) get them from Pakis?
Yes, Americans are easily mislead. Our top intelligence organizations have consensus. Iran stopped pursuing the bomb in 2003.
But to these trolls, that might just be a conspiracy by Barry and the boys.
I don't believe North Korea has nowhere near the amount of oil Iran has....LOL!!!
In the Middle East, for America and Israel, it's ALL ABOUT THE OIL!!!
These 'trolls' are all AIPAC employees
indigena,
Iran has purchased the materials needed to enrich uranium far further than is needed for Nuclear power or medical purposes. Russia and China have been assisting Iran with the enriching process. If Iran's intentions were so ignoble I seriously doubt they would see the need to produce enrichment above the 20% needed for medical purposes.
rameshm2,
Iran has already produced the Nuclear material they would need for "legitimate" reasons. Why would they need to purchase materials used to further enrich uranium? The ONLY reason they would need to enrtich beyond 25-30% is to produce a "dirty" bomb or for Plutonium.
Iran received shipments and further offers from Russia last year to assist in enriching Uranium far beyond 30%.
I applaud the efforts of these folks. I would like to see efforts to sensure Russian and China for their activities assisting Iran. Even if Amhadinijad weren't such a crack-pot, the fact that the Ayatollahs are the true power in Iran should worry the Hell out of the rest of the region.
Don't doubt that the interest of the Iranian government has more to do with taking over the region, once they are done with Isreal, they will focus on the Arab countries around the Gulf. They aren't interested in "friendly" relations with Islamic Arabs any more than sharing anything with Isreal.
Iran was supplying Shia Iraqis and insurgent Iraqis with weapons and explosives meant to target US/Coalition operations the entire time we fought there.
Iran has done FAR more in regard to actions against the US than Iraq/Saddam EVER did.
It is all for distracting the world from how Israel tearing down the homes and farms of the poor Palestinians to build homes for someone from Kansas! All under the name of all the BS they feed us from their Holy books. Shame of us to allow Israel run a nation as jail on their land for 100 years. Look at Arab Springs and ask questions like why we didn't help people of Bahrain in achieving democracy? Or, Saudis killing the minorities almost every day and we do not see anything on the news here? There is no difference between Assad of Syria than these dictators in most of these Arab countries. The difference is that don't have someone like Liberman or McCain to back them up. And of course the oil companies. The best thing for Israel is to recall this war monger Nuttyahoo. America wants to get rid of the Islamic government of Iran by making life harder for average Iranian? The fact is, this will make the Islamic government more strong. Instead, we should let Iran prosper that way the people could decide if they want this government or not? The days of changing regimes and putting puppets on thrones are gone.
Ray,
I won't ask what you've been smoking, I really don't want any.
If Iran gains Nuclear weapons grade Plutonium, or even a dirty bomb, you can bet it will find its way here at some point in the not too distant future.
By the way, you may want to go back and look at the consensus of the region prior to the formation of Isreal. You may be a little surprised at the numbers of different religions that lived there.
There was a fairly large population around Jeruselem, consisting of both Muslim and Hebrew. Somewhere in the 1 million range. There wasn't much population in the rest of the area. Most were Bedhowin who ranged through the entire area from Turkey to northern UAE. Until Isreal was formed there was NO noise from anyone there about the country of Palistine. It simply didn't exist.
I won't doubt your claims of encroachment on the settlements, but most of the people living there are those who were deported from Seria, Lebanon and Jordan after 1948. The non-Jewish population has more than tripled since then.
Do you have any idea how much uranium needs to be enriched to make a nuclear weapon ? 95% enrichment.
Last I heard Iran has only enriched to about 20% in all the years they've been working with nuclear energy.
It is possible they are acquiring nuclear weapons, I will not dispute that, it's POSSIBLE.
It's also possible they are doing it for defense.
Israel hates them and they have a large stockpile of nuclear weapons, and nobody bats an eye or says a word about them having nukes.
It's also a fact that Iran has NEVER attacked another country first, only in response to an attack.
So where is the evidence that even if Iran had a nuclear weapon they would be more of a threat than Israel, or even our own government for that matter.
Swatch makes high end watches??
you mean you don't want one like this???
http://store.swatch.com/watch/specials/dia-de-muertos.html
☺
It all looks nice but until they are willing to take on someone like David Koch...they are pissing up a waterfall.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html
Great idea, I just wish the target country was China. Iran is not really an immediate threat to us, although very soon it is likely the US will intervene to prevent any further nuclear progress. However, China is destroying not only our economy but the global economy with its dirty trade practices. The number one reason our economy is suffering is because our big corporations are taking all their business overseas especially to China to save a buck and get richer than they need to be. The Waltons started it and shame on that family-(what a disgrace they have become to Sam Walton)- and all the other big box giants followed. If more nonprofit groups put pressure on these countries selling out to China, then maybe we could see some real change. At least make concerted advertising campaigns to not buy "made in China", that would definitely help. If the big companies see there is no longer profit for them to go overseas, and that we won't buy Chinese products, then those jobs and factories will come home. Yeah, prices will go up, but its better than having communist China the most powerful country on earth and millions of jobs would make up for it.
you forget that our country cant tick off China becaquse we borrow tons of money from them- we now borrow 40 cents of ever dollar we spend- and who says our govt is reckless and wasteful- it will fall to the next generation so they dont care and line their pockets themselves- it wont change until we throw all of them to the curb
Yes it is a shame how much spending and borrowing is being done, but make no mistake- even though it may appear that the US is dependent on China, it is actually quite the opposite. If we were to stop all trade to China, we would feel short term effects and then recover stronger than ever, but the Chinese economy would be set back 50 years. The American people still have the buying power to make a change if they could ever unite together for the boycott of China. Even if the Walton family stopped betraying their own country and stopped everything Chinese, that one move would cripple the Chinese economy, and all the other big box stores copy whatever Walmart does so that would be a dream come true, but yeah just dreaming there. We have to start by not buying made in China.
Korea and Vietnam saw Chinese in action too! Too late and too far!
Let internal turmoils in China take care of itself! Just watch the castle on sand collapsing!
Jon,
Good point. I was going to chime in, since China has been the "shadow" sticking it's fingers into a large chink of turmoil happening around the globe.
The one thing to keep in mind...they may make the computer chips, and even some of the components, we use in many of our weapons systems, they don't HAVE the weapons systems. If the US went to war with China the result wouldn't be the kind of "conventional" war that was fought in Korea or Vietnam. We wouldn't have a 30 day war, like Iraq (both 1991 and 2003) because the have a much larger military. We could decimate their army from a distance. We are not too sure what kind of airforce they have, but I doubt they have much that can stand against an F-18 or F-22.
Wow, talk about a Fruedian Slip...that was supposed to be "Chunk" (an honest typo) LOL
?
I agree with some of what "astounding" is saying. I would take the bet that if I was wrong I would be homeless the rest of my life...on the bet that.....Most Americans would have no with expelling every Muslim from the United states if they did it in a humane way. Such as setting up housing for them elsewhere, then leave them to make their own way.I'm not saying dump them on a deserted Island with no food or shelter. Do yo know how many Americans lives would have been saved up to this point had we done this 20 years ago? We all are sick of hearing how peaceful Muslims are and the next day a Muslim blows one of our ppl up. They are no friend of ours and I do not know why ppl can not get that through their heads, mostly libs. Do you really think you are so likable there is no way someone that has never met you wishes you were dead, along with your whole family? Are ppl really that naive? Islam should NOT be recognized as a religion and be given tax breaks. To me stoning ppl, beheading them, locking their women up, that isn't religion that's out right torture, murder and it's the same as communism, a few men control hundreds of ppl. As I said I do not think you would hear much complaining if we got these enemies out of our country. And Americans are tired of bending over backwards for these enemies, they get a job then want to sue their employer b/c they want to go pray every 10 min. and get paid for it, or they want to be a cashier but not handle pork, when an American would kill just to have a job that pays. And we actually make allowances for these ppl that hate us. When was the last time you got to stay home from work on a Sunday b/c Christians shouldn't work on Sundays, that's right, the employer says, too bad if you don't like it get another job. These libs think we should wait on these Muslims hand and foot. WHY do we owe them anything? What have they EVER done for us, but kill us? And EVERYONE is sick of then coming here, they open a 7-11 type business and for SEVEN years they do NOT have to pay taxes, well after the 7 years are up, they leave the country and they have one of their brothers cousins etc take over that business and that person gets the clock reset with ANOTHER 7 years of no taxes, of course they are sending all this money back to where they came from also. So no I don't think you would see too many intelligent Americans crying if they left the USA.
Please, don't forget to name me! I have zero problem with a nuclear Iran... After all, it's Israel that has said it would nuke Europe if it "goes down"... It's also Israel that has not signed the UN non proliferation treaty and has never once allowed an inspection of it's facilities.
When did Isreal say they would "Nuke" Europe? Where is your proof?
You are correct that Isreal hasn't signed it, and Iran, Lebanon and Jordan have. Seria has NOT. Iran signed but it was 7 years BEFORE the Shah was deposed. Since the Iranian government is NOT the same one that signed the treaty, how can they be held to it?
They didn't actually say they would attack Europe, but they made it perfectly clear that they can and would attack Rome, Moscow, and other cities if they ever fall. I believe they called it the Samson Option.
Israel didn't sign it and they have one of the largest stockpiles of nuclear weapons, about 5th in the world the last I checked.
Just because the media propaganda machine didn't report this, and our backwards education system doesn't teach it, doesn't make it untrue.
Israel is not a dictatorship led by a religious zealot that is genocidal. Do you hear Israel talking about how they will genocide Iranian's? do you hear them stating that Iran does not have a right to exist and its people do not have a right to be alive? Tell me how many Jews live in Iran? how many Christians? how many of any other religion than Islam live in Iran? then tell me how many of those live in Israel and how many Muslims live in Israel..
Read about the Samson option, military man. Also, look at what Golda Meir did to extort America for U.S. airlifts in the Yom Kippur War in 1973. She ordered 13 nuclear weapons be armed and ready for use, sent out a nuclear alert, and warned the U.S. that they did not airlift supplies, there would be "very serious consequences." Nixon then had no choice but to airlift and get involved to prevent Israel from starting a WWIII. This all was because Israel was outnumbered and were losing ground in a war we were not to be involved in. This was the first example of the Samson Option, and if for nothing else....should give insight as to why we need to disarm Israel's nuclear capability as well. They are just as reckless with this power as we presume the Arab Nations would be.
No mention of Koch Industries trading with Iran, eh? If you are going to out companies you should not hold back!
Frankie....do you have proof of Koch Industries trading with Iran??? Or is that just your tired old diarrhetic mouth spewing more crap??? Wonder if GM has trade ties with Iran, though their favorite "back door" China??? Hmmmmmm.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html
What are the companies owned by Koch that are/were trading with Iran? Can someone give names, please.
I am an American Citizen, non-brainwashed by our media and corrupt government propaganda. I think it is horrible the lies our government and Israel are spreading throughout the world, and i think it is even worse that the rest of the world is so blindly following in the US and Israel's footsteps. Iran wants nuclear power purely for peaceful purposes, what right does a government such as the US or Israel who have nuclear warheads have to tell Iran they can't have nuclear power? This is absolute bullying from our country and I wish more people would wake up and stop following so blindly to the USA and Israeli lies and bully tactics.
If you don't like where you live and can't support you own country then move away and fight for your cause against all of us brainwashed warmongering Americans. Do you even know how many Israels you can fit into Iran or Syria? It's a tiny volatile strip of land often divided against itself constantly fighting for it's own existence, and yet our strongest and most important ally in the region.
Chuck it is an American right to be able to disagree with what our government is doing don't like it then move to a fascist nation where people can't speak their minds. And if you think Israel is our ally then why won't they sign a treaty like all our real allies do? Do America a favor pack your bags and move to Israel. Hope you like getting spit on because that's the welcome you will receive there.
Ah the old, "If you don't like it, then leave, Get 'Er Done, YEE HAW !"
That's exactly what the Founding Fathers of this country should have done when they didn't like what Britain was doing here, just left.
That's exactly what the Abolitionists should have done when they didn't like slavery, just left.
That's exactly what the Women's Suffrage Movement should have done, just left.
That's exactly what the folks who supported the Civil Rights Movement should have done, just left.
Do you get my point and realize how ridiculous that sounds ?!?
Do you even know how many innocent civilians Israel has slaughtered in Lebanon alone over the last 30 or so years ?!?!? Israel is FAR from innocent or incapable of defense. As a matter of fact they have the largest military in that region by far.
I wouldn't call it brainwashing, I'd call it more conditioning, and it obviously is working on most of the posters here.
@Ageeta
You cant use 20% enrichment or higher for peaceful purposes..
If this was Iran you would be could be hanging from that crane if you wrote articles like this about Iran as you have this great land.
Why,How, where, when, has Israel ever been our "Ally"??? I read somewhere that Israel has more spies in our country than all the other countries combined. Anyone old enough to remember the Liberty and it's Thirty seven sailors that were killed?? Ally? Tell me how.
"The Iranian Foreign Ministry is aware of the efforts of UANI". Time to beef up the security and change locations. If this group really did pose a big threat to Iran, then I am sure we would see a few attempted attacks on their headquarters. Then and only then can they say they are doing a great job.
If the only auto choice the people of Iran have is Renault, that could bring them to their knees !
In a move of crushing sanctions, Obama is going to sell the Chevy Volt in iran.
stevejc42
He'll be competing with the Koch Brothers who are already there.
Sanctions usually hurt the citizens more than the leaders- look at Cuba- but I guess Israel is the only country in the region who should have nukes as we know they would never abuse their power- ask any Palestinian- China will end up buying all the oil from Iran as they did in Iraq after we spent a trillion to secure it- seems we never learn
I know my country's government is responsible for the largest genocide in history.
I know my country's government is the only one to drop a nuclear bomb, not targeting military installations, but targeting and killing hundreds of thousands of women, children, and men.
Superskunk--and YOU'RE making comments about others being "brainwashed Americans"?? LMAO! Why don't you check the actual geography (including military factories and installations surrounding Hiroshima and Nagasaki) before you make more idiotic comments like this one (among others). "Your country's government is responsible for the largest genocide in history"?? Sure... You need help in your history, especially that prior to the formation of the USA. People like you will say anything to try to convince others that you're "enlightened" while the rest of us are "brainwashed". Educate yourself, then speak.
I don't consider it brainwashing, I consider it conditioning.
I am quite educated on these subjects. I make sure I can back myself up with facts and objectivity.
Yes, the genocide of the Native Americans IS the largest genocide in history. Close to 10 MILLION.
I agree there was a rather large military headquarters in Hiroshima, but not Nagasaki. And they weren't chosen for their military installations, they were chosen because there were major ports and weapons manufacturers in those cities. Our government also knew that Japan was out of weapons and finances before they dropped the bombs, meaning they would surrender soon anyway.
You can attempt to defend our government by saying that it was okay because of the munitions and weapons being made in those cities.
But that's like saying it's okay for our enemies to bomb New York, Boston, and any other major US port. Or it's okay for our enemies to bomb Radford, VA, Arlington, VA, Geneseo, IL, Las Vegas, NV, Murfreessboro, TN, Anywhere a Boeing plant is, I won't continue with the other 50+ arms manufacturers in the US, I made my point.
@Superskunk
The attack in Japan was not near the "largest genocide in history" it actually ended one of the most barbaric that focused on targeting women and children in China. The "Rape of Nan King" is part of the Japanese invasion of China. Right after the Bombs were dropped the attack on china stopped. The death toll just in Nan King alone was more than the death toll from both of the atomic bombs dropped in Japan. "Flowers of War" is a movie about the Japanese invasion of China. It was very well made and has the main actor from the new Batman Movies in it (Christian Bale). Its hard to watch.. Its hard to even read about in wikipedia. The people in china were tortured to death in some of the most horrific and sadistic ways you can imagine.
Superskunk: Not as simple as that Re; Native Americans. The following is by:
Guenter Lewy
Guenter Lewy, who for many years taught political science at the University of Massachusetts, has been a contributor to Commentary since 1964. His books include The Catholic Church & Nazi Germany, Religion & Revolution, America in Vietnam, and The Cause that Failed: Communism in American Political Life.
"That American Indians suffered horribly is indisputable. But whether their suffering amounted to a"holocaust," or to genocide, is another matter.
II
It is a firmly established fact that a mere 250,000 native Americans were still alive in the territory of the United States at the end of the 19th century. Still in scholarly contention, however, is the number of Indians alive at the time of first contact with Europeans. Some students of the subject speak of an inflated"numbers game"; others charge that the size of the aboriginal population has been deliberately minimized in order to make the decline seem less severe than it was.
The disparity in estimates is enormous. In 1928, the ethnologist James Mooney proposed a total count of 1,152,950 Indians in all tribal areas north of Mexico at the time of the European arrival. By 1987, in American Indian Holocaust and Survival, Russell Thornton was giving a figure of well over 5 million, nearly five times as high as Mooney’s, while Lenore Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr. suggested a total of 12 million. That figure rested in turn on the work of the anthropologist Henry Dobyns, who in 1983 had estimated the aboriginal population of North America as a whole at 18 million and of the present territory of the United States at about 10 million.
From one perspective, these differences, however startling, may seem beside the point: there is ample evidence, after all, that the arrival of the white man triggered a drastic reduction in the number of native Americans. Nevertheless, even if the higher figures are credited, they alone do not prove the occurrence of genocide.
To address this issue properly we must begin with the most important reason for the Indians’ catastrophic decline—namely, the spread of highly contagious diseases to which they had no immunity. This phenomenon is known by scholars as a"virgin-soil epidemic"; in North America, it was the norm.
The most lethal of the pathogens introduced by the Europeans was smallpox, which sometimes incapacitated so many adults at once that deaths from hunger and starvation ran as high as deaths from disease; in several cases, entire tribes were rendered extinct. Other killers included measles, influenza, whooping cough, diphtheria, typhus, bubonic plague, cholera, and scarlet fever. Although syphilis was apparently native to parts of the Western hemisphere, it, too, was probably introduced into North America by Europeans.
About all this there is no essential disagreement. The most hideous enemy of native Americans was not the white man and his weaponry, concludes Alfred Crosby,"but the invisible killers which those men brought in their blood and breath." It is thought that between 75 to 90 percent of all Indian deaths resulted from these killers.
To some, however, this is enough in itself to warrant the term genocide. David Stannard, for instance, states that just as Jews who died of disease and starvation in the ghettos are counted among the victims of the Holocaust, Indians who died of introduced diseases"were as much the victims of the Euro-American genocidal war as were those burned or stabbed or hacked or shot to death, or devoured by hungry dogs." As an example of actual genocidal conditions, Stannard points to Franciscan missions in California as"furnaces of death."
But right away we are in highly debatable territory. It is true that the cramped quarters of the missions, with their poor ventilation and bad sanitation, encouraged the spread of disease. But it is demonstrably untrue that, like the Nazis, the missionaries were unconcerned with the welfare of their native converts. No matter how difficult the conditions under which the Indians labored—obligatory work, often inadequate food and medical care, corporal punishment—their experience bore no comparison with the fate of the Jews in the ghettos. The missionaries had a poor understanding of the causes of the diseases that afflicted their charges, and medically there was little they could do for them. By contrast, the Nazis knew exactly what was happening in the ghettos, and quite deliberately deprived the inmates of both food and medicine; unlike in Stannard’s"furnaces of death," the deaths that occurred there were meant to occur.
The larger picture also does not conform to Stannard’s idea of disease as an expression of"genocidal war." True, the forced relocations of Indian tribes were often accompanied by great hardship and harsh treatment; the removal of the Cherokee from their homelands to territories west of the Mississippi in 1838 took the lives of thousands and has entered history as the Trail of Tears. But the largest loss of life occurred well before this time, and sometimes after only minimal contact with European traders. True, too, some colonists later welcomed the high mortality among Indians, seeing it as a sign of divine providence; that, however, does not alter the basic fact that Europeans did not come to the New World in order to infect the natives with deadly diseases.
Or did they? Ward Churchill, taking the argument a step further than Stannard, asserts that there was nothing unwitting or unintentional about the way the great bulk of North America’s native population disappeared:"it was precisely malice, not nature, that did the deed." In brief, the Europeans were engaged in biological warfare.
Unfortunately for this thesis, we know of but a single instance of such warfare, and the documentary evidence is inconclusive. In 1763, a particularly serious uprising threatened the British garrisons west of the Allegheny mountains. Worried about his limited resources, and disgusted by what he saw as the Indians’ treacherous and savage modes of warfare, Sir Jeffrey Amherst, commander-in-chief of British forces in North America, wrote as follows to Colonel Henry Bouquet at Fort Pitt:"You will do well to try to inoculate the Indians [with smallpox] by means of blankets, as well as to try every other method, that can serve to extirpate this execrable race."
Bouquet clearly approved of Amherst's suggestion, but whether he himself carried it out is uncertain. On or around June 24, two traders at Fort Pitt did give blankets and a handkerchief from the fort’s quarantined hospital to two visiting Delaware Indians, and one of the traders noted in his journal:"I hope it will have the desired effect." Smallpox was already present among the tribes of Ohio; at some point after this episode, there was another outbreak in which hundreds died.
A second, even less substantiated instance of alleged biological warfare concerns an incident that occurred on June 20, 1837. On that day, Churchill writes, the U.S. Army began to dispense"'trade blankets' to Mandans and other Indians gathered at Fort Clark on the Missouri River in present-day North Dakota." He continues: Far from being trade goods, the blankets had been taken from a military infirmary in St. Louis quarantined for smallpox, and brought upriver aboard the steamboat St. Peter’s. When the first Indians showed symptoms of the disease on July 14, the post surgeon advised those camped near the post to scatter and seek"sanctuary" in the villages of healthy relatives.
In this way the disease was spread, the Mandans were"virtually exterminated," and other tribes suffered similarly devastating losses. Citing a figure of"100,000 or more fatalities" caused by the U.S. Army in the 1836-40 smallpox pandemic (elsewhere he speaks of a toll"several times that number"), Churchill refers the reader to Thornton’s American Indian Holocaust and Survival.
Supporting Churchill here are Stiffarm and Lane, who write that"the distribution of smallpox- infected blankets by the U.S. Army to Mandans at Fort Clark . . . was the causative factor in the pandemic of 1836-40." In evidence, they cite the journal of a contemporary at Fort Clark, Francis A. Chardon.
But Chardon's journal manifestly does not suggest that the U.S. Army distributed infected blankets, instead blaming the epidemic on the inadvertent spread of disease by a ship's passenger. And as for the"100,000 fatalities," not only does Thornton fail to allege such obviously absurd numbers, but he too points to infected passengers on the steamboat St. Peter's as the cause. Another scholar, drawing on newly discovered source material, has also refuted the idea of a conspiracy to harm the Indians.
Similarly at odds with any such idea is the effort of the United States government at this time to vaccinate the native population. Smallpox vaccination, a procedure developed by the English country doctor Edward Jenner in 1796, was first ordered in 1801 by President Jefferson; the program continued in force for three decades, though its implementation was slowed both by the resistance of the Indians, who suspected a trick, and by lack of interest on the part of some officials. Still, as Thornton writes:"Vaccination of American Indians did eventually succeed in reducing mortality from smallpox."
To sum up, European settlers came to the New World for a variety of reasons, but the thought of infecting the Indians with deadly pathogens was not one of them. As for the charge that the U.S. government should itself be held responsible for the demographic disaster that overtook the American-Indian population, it is unsupported by evidence or legitimate argument. The United States did not wage biological warfare against the Indians; neither can the large number of deaths as a result of disease be considered the result of a genocidal design.
III
Still, even if up to 90 percent of the reduction in Indian population was the result of disease, that leaves a sizable death toll caused by mistreatment and violence. Should some or all of these deaths be considered instances of genocide?"
Well superskunk, you get the point. I guess more reading on the topic is warranted by us all.
Just another "get rich quick" scheme put on by another organization full of dolts
People are so gullable, they will fall for anything to make others rich....so STOP complaining about the top 1%
Good you have your blinders on the 1% likes their slaves blind and stupid.
Sanctions don't work. They haven't worked for Iran and they haven't worked for N. Korea. The only people they hurt are the powerless. Government corruption will always make sure it is taken care of. Shame on the US. End the sanctions.
@eringobragh
If "powerless" people are making nukes, which are intended to kill you and me and the rest of the humanity, then these people should suffer until they stop their evil deeds.
Nice moral judgment on your part but you are aware we are the only nation on earth to have nuked another nation...right? We also recently invaded another country without provocation? ...right?
I don't want Iran to develop a nuke but let's not get too feisty with our accusation until we clean-up our own back yard. They are one little nation and if they develop a nuke they'll have one little bomb...we have 5,113 big bombs.
I have no problem with the hanging, as long as the man was found guilty. A rapist of that many children should be hanged.
However, Islam doctrine says children at the age of seven can be and regurlarly ARE married and soon aftewards consumated.
I don't know where the pope or vatican is in all this, or why he hasn't called Crusade to Mecca and Terhan. Since the last crusades, South America or Central America were not part of the Catholic Church yet. That's just one outlet friends. Understand that Islam will and always have a war against NON MUSLIM, that includes atheist. I wish people would understand how heavy handed Islam is, perhaps this can explain it better than I ever can....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qrybtztJw&playnext=1&list=PL_PliyQdJ90HkagR_Mr4birabxQuCjYUM&feature=results_video
Understand that is the Co-Founder of Hezbollah, the Co-Founder of the Iranian Revolutionairy Army, an Islamic militant, explaining what Islam is and how he changed. The fact that he KNOWS the Quran, and states that Muhammed married and consumated his wife (one of) at the age of 7 to 9, this is scripture people, according to Islam.
Do not believe the liberal media when they tell you Islam is a peaceful religion. There are hundreds of verses in their scripture that preach violence against ALL non-muslim. TO those of you who say the Old Testament preaches violence as well, I encourage you to get out of the Old and into the New Testament as it is the foundation for Christendom.
We've become so civilized that we think sanctions are going to change their views on the United States.
It only makes us hate us more, expel Muslims from the U.S. for in knowing the principles of FREE WILL we know that everything cannot be introduced into the same place, it introduces conflict. A non-muslim cannot even fly over mecca in a plane! Such is their tolerance of non-muslims. Get a Crusade going, get bombers and cruise missles running round the clock strikes, kick in every one of their doors, expel them or kill them all together, it is the lesser of two evils.
"If we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved." Niccolo Machiavelli
"Kill them all, God will recognize his own." ~Arnaud Amalric
astounding....what is yor opinion about israeli allowing counted calories to gaza to just keep them alive. read cnn
Astounding is full of anger and hate for some reason.
He/she attempts to channel it with his hate towards islam in general, something he knows VERY little about.
I am no fan of islam, but people are allowed to practice whatever they want. just remeber that these extreme groups were created by united states. al quida, taliban, junallah, heck even bin ladin was trained by cia.
astounding
Seek help. I'm not sure I've read a post by a more disturbed person.
astounding...
Parts of your rant is so very true others are so very wrong and disturbing your just as bad as them.
Swatch, the Swiss watch manufacturer, has also resisted UANI's appeals, saying in a letter to Wallace that it "sells to consumers, not regimes...Weasel words from a manufacturer of @!$%#ty watches. You all remember the Swiss whose currency was once Nazi gold.
You do know that most of the products you buy here in America is owned by companies that did business with the Nazis don't you?
Shhh Buster, don't point out their ignorance or they might get angry.
Business with the Nazis ?!?!?
Our government put them to work in Korea and Italy right after WW2 during Operation Paperclip, destroying up and coming democracy and putting the same fascist leaders removed after WW2 back in place.
if Iran didnt have oil no one would care the US and Israel would love to secure them- except they forget they will go to China and Russia who now buy their oil- if the US wants to end a big part of terrorism they would give the Palestian's their own state- but no one will talk about that- I respected Obama for originally stating that but now he's another brainwashed fool w/Nuttin' but a yahoo directing how we proceed
There is no such thing as Palestinians. They are castoffs from Arab countries scared @!$%#less of Israel who has repeated kicked their combined sandy asses.
When Israel was given to the Jews there were people living there....just like there were people living in the land of Canaan when god "gave" the land to the Jews back then. Just sayin'. It's not like the land was empty. How would you like it if we gave one of our states back to the Native Americans. Not all that different, really. And I'm sure you'd bitch about it and get pretty violent.
cathy I agree with you, but the idea of god gave isreal this land is really stupid. If god gave them the land, he also kicked them out of that land and as far as I know he hasn't sent any new notice that they can go back. but you are right that how would people feel if the indian want to claim america since they owned it, but wait god didn't say that america belong to indians.
Bill
Your are an ignorant fool. The Europeans who call themselves are not descendants of the tribes of Israel. They have no claim to that land. Would you move if people showed up saying this land belonged to us 2 thousand years ago?
Give a few states to Native Americans (Dakotas?), give Arizona, New Mexico and Texas back to Mexico.
Great post !
I'm baffled how so many Americans defend Israel's "right" to their homeland/holy land, but nobody says anything about giving Native Americans their rightful homeland/holy land back.
American Indians have way more turf than Israel.
....And they are free to buy land anywhere and live anywhere in the USA. The Brave New Palestine has vowed to make Judea and Samaria Jew-free.
Yes, they are, now.
That wasn't the case when our army was slaughtering them. That wasn't the case during the Indian Removal Act and The Trail of Tears.
Just goes to show you the American resolve to reform--a "no-go" when it comes to Islam. Can you imagine a muslim country 100 years from now crying cocodile tears over 911?
I don't have an opinion of it, whether it's crocodile tears or sincere, but some muslim countries are doing it now. Even Ahmadinejad has shown sympathy over 9/11 and has called it tragic in the past.
I'm confused by your post, are you saying that our government attempts to reform islam in the Middle East ? Or are you saying islam can't be reformed ? Or both ?
I disagree that our government is trying to reform islam, and I strongly disagree islam itself needs to be reformed. Well no more than any other monotheistic religion needs to be reformed.
Islam is not an evil or violent religion in general, it's just some crazy fundamentalists convince young impressionable people that are frustrated and angry with the foreign occupation that "jihad" and violence are the answer.
There's more muslims that disagree with that way of thinking and speak out against it then there are violent muslims.
But we've strayed some from my original question. It's just curious and maddening to me when so many Americans defend Israel's right to their "homeland" when they really know nothing about the history or geopolitics of the area, but don't even consider what our government did and still does to the native people of this land.
You said Native Americans are free to purchase land (which in itself for any American isn't true since you NEVER own your land) anywhere in America. They are, but why should they have to purchase back land they inhabited and cared for in the first place ? We are talking about a very large group of very proud people that have been broken by "the system" and expect them to recover just like that, that simply ?
It's the history of what our government, and on a larger scale, the elite have done for hundreds of years now. It's not in Native Americans, Latino and Blacks cultural history to be poor and subservient, they've been physically, emotionally, and intellectually beaten into submission. It's only the last 400+ years it has been like this. For 2000 years before that these cultures gave so much to the world in the forms of mathematics, forms of government, science, and agriculture.
Are you okay or just like to ramble on and on about something you know very little about. Just enough to say a lot about nothing.
Lest we not forget too Skunk, that the Israelis were handed the land at the behest of Britain and the U.N. because they saw it as a better option than housing Jewish refugees in their countries. ...and the holocaust had provided the perfect timing to establish a Jewish homeland in the middle east, a policy goal of the Jewish to establish a middle-eastern homeland even before the war that had not fully come together.
For Americans who do no research:
The turks occupied this contested land for hundreds of years, and were defeated by the Allied forces in WWI- who had made an agreement with the resident Arabs saying that if they were to fight and die alongside the Allied forces, they were to have this land as a homeland (Palestine). This deal was formed by Henry McMahon and Hussein bin Ali. For those who disagree with the details of the current land of Israel within the McMahon-Hussein agreement, look up minutes of Cabinet Eastern Committee chaired by Lord Curzon (it shows Britain's intent of the deal.)
The Palestinians fought alongside the allies and the British won the land. Fast forward to post World War II, the British reniged on this promise, since now borders within the region were up in the air and once again in britain's hands, and weakly turned the issue of the land over to the U.N.. The U.N. then decided that splitting the country in two was a good idea (because of global anti-semitism and a non-interest in refugees). Both the U.S. and Britain, not shockingly, supported this splitting of the land...and hence, you have the conflict.
Super Skunk
I'm saying that the issue is religious at its core. Islam will never have a "Reformation" It has built in safeguards and will never change. Unlike the Jewish and Christian bibles the Koran spells out by name peoples and religions that are around right now. Jews have been the historical occupants with nation and nation building in Israel that has been indelible for 3000+ years. Jews everywhere pray for Jerusalem at every meal ever since the diaspora. The jews didnt get any "reservation land" until the venetians invented the "ghetto".
Who knows if the American Indians, "First Americans" pray for a single sacred mountain- a Jerusalem if you will..... to be their capital once again- if they had one(?) well who knows? But, if they can be driven off their reservations except for a few clinger-ons. Incorporate a National wish into a prayer recited after every daily meal and worship services maybe in a couple thousands of years and at least one more major genocide who knows? (other than it is a really weird analogy). But in the USA Indians are citizens (sorta) and have full rights in our society. I am happy for that.
You are Right its been a long time since anyone believes a good Indian is a dead one. Unfortuanately we cannot say the same for Jews. As for turf... traditionaly that is settled by wars. At one time The league of Nations and a few enlightened Brits thought it was time the Jews stop wondering subject to the whims of other nations. The Jews should be able to be self determining in the area that they have historically been a nation on both sides of the Jordan River. At the end of ww1 that represented a little less than 2% of what the Arabs got: 98%- a pretty good deal for the "Other Native people". Not good enough the Palestinian Arabs that later got 80% (transJordan) of that pittance as well. Now they are trying to whittle Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem. I trust you are fluent with Picot-Sykes, the British Mandate, the San Remo Conferance, UN Charter Chapter 80 etc as well as the Role of the grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the Muslim Brotherhood then and now.
I do not share your view that Islam is a religion of peace on par with the other world's major religions.
There is only one Islam. There is no mythical Militant Islam or Extreme Islam. Just Islam. Murder is their stock in trade as practiced by thier spiritual leader. If people have ideas in their heads that contradict Islam; Well, just cut of their heads. End of problem.
"Radical Islam" is redundant, and people who don't understand that are dangerously ignorant. Islam is a social system, not a religion. It encompasses politics, economics, law, science, the spiritual – everything. Saying Islam isn't bad because most Muslims aren't terrorists completely misses the point: Muslims by definition support the imposition of Sharia law and the destruction of every aspect of social order that doesn't conform to Islam.
What spineless people we in the West have become.
By not dealing with Islam now , We are swapping a horrific future for our grandchildren for a bit of comfort today.
Islam is a hostile totalitarian political system that dishonestly presents itself as merely a religion, and dishonestly asks for religious tolerance.
Other Hostile Totalitarian Political systems are:
Communism
Fascism
Nazism
None of these Political systems have moderate and extreme versions, and neither does Islam.
JMcrowly,
Too funny you were typing what was on my mind while I was typing. Hussein bin Ali acknowledged that they were getting a GREAT deal.
The issue with Israel and the muslim world is a religious issue at its core, I will agree on that.
The issue with US/Israeli relations and the Middle East is financial at its core.
The idea that we used to form this country of a confederation of provinces where one federal government controls the states came from the Iroquois League.
Again, you're still missing the point I was trying to make. I'm not arguing the Jewish peoples right to Israel, that's another debate for another time. The reason I used the Native Americans as an analogy was this, I was questioning the American publics quick defense of the Jewish land of Israel, yet they never seem to question pressing issues here, or our federal governments involvement in the Middle East as a whole. It always becomes a bipartisan, religious, or race issue amongst the public to keep us atomized, isolated, and distracted from a questionable domestic and foreign policy that our "elected" officials have created.
From an objective aspect, your view of islam is seriously incorrect. Throughout history and to this day there are more peaceful, non-violent muslims than there are violent extremists.
I also disagree with your view of extreme islam. Extreme islam , or "Radical islam" as you call it, didn't ever attack the US because of our society or religious beliefs. We were attacked because of our governments foreign policy and global occupation.
While I am extremely horrified by, and strongly disagree with sharia law, it's not common throughout the muslim world. And the bottom line is a large reason the Middle East hasn't been able to advance and evolve socially, economically, and technologically is due to the Wests eagerness to destroy and occupy over building and advancing.
Ixor: Excellent post!
I'm Sorry SuperSkunk
You either glossed over or ignored what I wrote. The only other alternative would be incomprehension and I don't want to venture there. I'm not convinced it applies. yet. Its obvious you are not arguing in favor of the Jews right to a self determining state: Israel. I recognize that a certain part of you is appalled that so many Americans are quick to supped Israel over apologies/comforting her foes. Your American Indian analogy just doesn't really fit- it never does. For some bizarre reason folks keep trotting it out but, I played along and gave it a try. I suspect you are steeped in the writings by the late Edward Said, first hand or second hand..
I stand by my words describing Islam and any serious secular academic inquiry free from the restraints of Sharia will bear that out the veraacity of my statements.
I disagree that it is the fault of the West that Islamic Societies have not evolved on par with the west. That is the fault of Islam and the world-view it purveys.
I didn't gloss over or ignore anything you wrote. You asked why I was using the Native American as an analogy and I explained it, quite clearly. You accuse me of incomprehension, but I comprehend your fear of freedom, conditioning, and anger/hate quite well.
You can disagree all you want about the Western interference in the Middle East, but objectively and based on facts and evidence, it's the truth.
Operation Chaos, where billion of American taxpayer dollars went to arm and train the mujahadeen, yet a few hundred thousand were denied to help rebuild Afghanistan. Our elected officials got what they wanted, USSR defeated, but could have cared less that they destroyed Afghanistan, or how to deal with the refugees that returned after the war.
How about Operation AJAX, where our government and the UK government destroyed democracy in Iran and ousted the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh (who you proved earlier you know nothing about).
And your views on islam are allowed, you can think it's evil all you want as well. But that also doesn't change facts and evidence. The fact is as a whole islam isn't a violent religion.
There are 196 countries in the world. It is such a shame that there is always just a handful that ruin it for the rest of us. Can you imagine if there were no Iran, China, Russia, or North Korea? The chances or WWIII would be zero and for the most part we could live with the peace of mind that we won't destroy each other on a global scale. Yes, we would still have the Syrians, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq and the terrorist cells they give shelter to, but without China and Russia always impeding our efforts and vetoing suggested interventions at the UN we would have those problems resolved already. Russia is basically the worlds arms dealer that just undermines everybody, and also a big reason they won't go against Assad's regime in Syria, because they are making money off supplying firearms to them.
The chances would be better if there was no Israel. It is a nation run by bloodthirsty savages who have done nothing but start wars since it began.
You're kidding right ?!?
You forgot out government as well. The only country in the world that has a military budget of global conquest proportions.
It's not even close, we're number one in military spending at over $1 TRILLION annually. China is number 2 at just over $100 Billion. That's about $900 BILLION MORE than the second largest military in the world. You can't tell me that's not a budget for global conquest.
These are numbers we can't even comprehend. And we wonder how we have such a large deficit and failing economy. Conditioning and propaganda at it's finest.
realitychuck....IWW AND IIWW did not start from any of those countries,and if there is going to be another one, it would be from eu and u.s end. you are so full of it. just imagine that isreal didn't manipulate american policy, how nice would that be, but then again most people wouldn't know the difference in u.s
well Buster, you certainly do not sound very opinionated
How is the weather in Tehran today?
It should not take private entities to expose these companies, since the sanctions are being put in place by the government. The government should expose and shame the cheaters, especially since the UN is one of the offenders. The government has over 1000 agencies, yet none of them are in a position to enforce the government's actions -- until you owe them money. Isn't that what it's all about?
This is the perfect adjunct to U.S. policy without the bureaucracy of government. This organization can delve into the fringes where official government could not go, also providing "Plausible Deniability".
This is the entrepreneurial spirit that makes America great!
actually this is a true example of isreal manipulation in u.s policy.
As usual the people doing the most toward success of the sanctions are not government but private. I am an old man and remember when the relationship between the USA and Iran were as friends. I doubt Iran's people consider their present state an improvement. The citizens of Iran are responsible for the pain they live under. They have only to put reasonable people in position of leadership and their world will get better. Those who accept their governments actions are responsible for those actions, good or bad. Remember that when you vote. If you don't try to make our government better you are guilty when it does wrong. People get the government they deserve. Vote.
I, too, liked them better when they were Persians
wallacej . how about when iranian elected a democratic government in 1953, and it was over though by cia and mi6 to bring the shah back. they were some study done recently that the closest ally u.s can have in the middle east are the iranian people, the government of iran will eventually change, but people will remeber what the u.s government is doing with the livlihood of iranian people. sanction is the worst kind of war. when iraq was sanctioned prior to war, nearly a million iraqi children died from starvation. iranian people have their back against the wall. they have a government who is opressive and corrupt inside, but they also have the sanction from outside which is making them even weaker to rise up against this government.
They were "friends" because the CIA and MI6 overthrew the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED Mohammed Mossadegh because he wanted to take control of Irans oil from Britain and give it back to the people.
In response the MI6 and CIA overthrew him and replaced him with the Shah, an authoritarian dictatorship and UK/US government puppet. It was called the TPAJAX Project aka Operation Ajax.
The misinformation in this country is astounding !
It was one of the best things things the CIA ever did until Ford and Carter undid it all. Mossadegh would have ushered in an oppressive Islamic regime that would make life under the ShaH look like a church picnic. Like what we have now.
Besides the sanctions are a sham. North Korea lost hundreds of thousands of lives due to 'sanctions". I'm sure the ayatollahs of Iran are willing to part with 5% or more of their shahids/population to get their bomb and holy war.
You are kidding, right ?
Beyond the fact that the American government has no right to destroy democracy outside this country at their whim, let alone another countries whim.
And I will allow you to embarrass yourself a little farther by explaining how Mossadegh would have made Iran an oppressive islamic regime, since you obviously know nothing about the man.
I do know a little about Mossadegh, because I thought once like you do now. That if our government removed him from power, he must have been a bad, bad man. I found out this was quite untrue.
Besides being a humanitarian, when he was elected PM he introduced nationalization of oil (which for some reason was controlled by Britain) to benefit THE PEOPLE of Iran. Which the Iranian public supported. Peasants were freed of indentured servitude. He introduced a form of workmans compensation insurance. He introduced unemployment benefits. He introduced taxes on the rich to benefit public housing, pest control, and public baths.
Such a bad, bad, terrible man, you're SO right.
Wallace J. Meir Dagan the head of the Mossad recently said that the Iranian government is rational. You only repeat what you read in our papers. Iran has not started a war in 300 years. They have not threatened any country since even though the zionist want you to believe that. Israel on the other hand threats Iran and every country around it daily. Netanyhoo said they may have to attack Egypt, Lebanon and Syria. Israel has been at war with her neighbors from the start of their country. They were the ones who attacked in 1967 and 1973, not the other way around. And for those of you that say there is no Palestine read the Balfour act of 1917. It calls for an arab state and jewish state in "PALESTINE".
The sanctions are hurting the Iranian people, but the arguement that the people are not the government makes no sense. Governments are their people. Not all the people in a given country may agree with the government but many if not most, do. The current government in Iran is the result of a popular revolution. The previous government was the result of a western supported coup. Government, even those created by force, exist because people either support them, tolerate them or have not organized yet to topple them.
Americans think a simple election will change a government. Not so. We have had the same basic government for two centuries and we more or less like it. All that changes is the players. True government change, as occurred in South Africa and in the former soviet republics are the result, usually of violent clashes and revolution carried out in a messy, long term struggle, both political and insugency.
Even when we perceive winners and losers, the government is still the results of actions or inactions of the population in general. People may have the government they want or the government they deserve, but in the long range scope of history, they are the government they have. Toppling the current Iranian government will no doubt be an ugly spectacle, but it will be the result of the decisions by the Iranian people. They installed this theocratic government by popular revolution.
Maybe these guys can find and release Mitt Romney's Taxes.
Even if this thread winds up with 3000 comments, I will wager that nobody will say anything more worthless and stupid.
Or maybe they can find Obama's birth certificate Terry?
Maybe all the superpacs should consider donating their funds to this organization so we may all be safe from nuclear proliferation. Much better use of money than being wasted on political ambition!
I bit aipac is
The Swiss have a long history of looking the other way, for example in recent times during the Second World War when the Swiss were the favored international bankers for the NAZI Third Reich and had no problems using gold extracted from the teeth of NAZI concentration camp victims in their coins and jewelry, which makes it no surprise that Swiss watch company Swatch® has no qualms about doing business with the patently demented paramilitary Satanic cult of death, destruction, and hate called "Islam" in Iran . . .
SWATCH=EVIL SWATCH=EVIL SWATCH=EVIL SWATCH=EVIL SWATCH=EVIL SWATCH=EVIL
Swatch: Timekeeper for the most evil nation on the planet! :-o
Mazel tov
An article about companies who do business with Iran and not one mention of Halliburton? Author's credibility 0.
Remember Dick Cheney was once Halliburton's CEO, admittedly to get them military contracts.
Or GM through their favorite "back door", China?????
When you go to sleep at night is it really Iran that you are afraid of? There are only two threats to the existence of the United States of America and they are China and Russia. We can defeat China easily by simply refusing to trade with them until they play fair. Once it is not so cheap to do business in China anymore then our own economy will skyrocket. Shame on anyone that has betrayed our country by giving China our ideas and inventions or having your product made there. Do you know how much damage you have caused by lining your own pockets? Is it worth it to sell out future generations and give all the power to China? As far as Russia goes, just get tough with them like Reagan did and give them ultimatums to stop feeding the fires in the world by supplying weapons. I believe that if huge companies can form mergers, then it could happen with countries too. Russia should merge with the US and it would benefit us both. I mean when you look at the condition of Russia compared to that of a struggling company, now would be the time for us to combine our forces.
Russia and China are smart enough to know nuclear war would not be beneficial to anyone. Iran is ran by Islamic clerics who have the people believing that if they die while fighting infidels they go to heaven. Nothing could be further from the truth but they believe. With idiots like that at the controls of nuclear weapons the threat is far more real than Russia and China. If Iran attacks Israel we will have ww3. No question about it. And as fer as threats to the U.S....Remember 9/11???
First of all you know nothing of Iran, it's history, or our government's involvement in Iran.
Second of all, what does 9/11 have to do with Iran ?
Thirdly, Iran has never attacked another country first since overthrowing the UK/US puppet dictator during the '79 Iranian Revolution.
Stop relying on the propaganda machine to give you information, find it on your own.