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Steve Cannon / AP file
Fla. Gov. Jeb Bush looks at a chart showing Florida's Comprehensive Assessment Test results in Tallahassee on May 10, 2004.
Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush soared to rock star status in the education world on the strength of a chart.
A simple graph, it tracked fourth-grade reading scores. In 1998, when Bush was elected governor, Florida kids scored far below the national average. By the end of his second term, in 2007, they were far ahead, with especially impressive gains for low-income and minority students.
Those results earned Bush bipartisan acclaim. As he convenes a star-studded policy summit this week in Washington, he is widely regarded as one of the most influential education reformers in the U.S. Elements of his agenda have been adopted in 36 states, from Maine to Mississippi, North Carolina to New Mexico.
Many of his admirers cite Bush's success in Florida as reason enough to get behind him.
But a close examination raises questions about the depth and durability of the gains in Florida. After the dramatic jump of the Bush years, Florida test scores edged up in 2009 and then dropped, with low-income students falling further behind. State data shows huge numbers of high school graduates still needing remedial help in math and reading.
And some of the policies Bush now pushes, such as vouchers and mandatory online classes, have no clear links to the test-score bump in Florida. Bush has been particularly vigorous about promoting online education, urging states to adopt policies written with input from companies that stand to profit from expanded cyber-schooling.
Many of those companies also donate to Bush's Foundation for Excellence in Education, which has raised $19 million in recent years to promote his agenda nationwide.
Sherman Dorn, a professor of education at the University of South Florida, says some of Bush's policies as governor, such as an intense focus on teaching reading, made a real difference to Florida students.
"It's pretty clear Governor Bush should get credit for giving a damn," he said. But by teaming with for-profit corporations to push cyber-schools, which have produced dismally low test scores in many states, Bush is "throwing away whatever credibility he had coming out of Florida," Dorn said.
Bush's allies disagree. For them, the former governor -- widely considered a top contender for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination -- is a visionary striving to build on his record of success.
"I've been very impressed with the thoughtfulness of his policies," said Joel Klein, who ran New York City schools for eight years and now heads News Corp's education division, Amplify, which donates to the Bush foundation.
Klein and officials at several other education companies that support Bush's foundation say they do so not for their own financial interest but to promote a broad policy debate.
Any implication "that corporate donors give to us for us to advance their agenda" is simply false, said Patricia Levesque, the foundation's executive director.
The Florida formula
Bush, who declined to comment for this story, says often that he has one abiding goal: to give all students the chance to reach their "God-given potential."
His "Florida formula" rests on the principles of increasing accountability and expanding parental choice. Among its tenets:
* Grade schools on an A-to-F scale, based mostly on student scores and growth on standardized tests. Give students in poorly ranked schools vouchers to attend private and religious schools.
* Hold back 8-year-olds who can't pass a state reading test rather than promote them to fourth grade.
* Expand access to online classes and charter schools, which are publicly funded but privately managed, sometimes for profit.
In Florida, Bush paired his tough-love measures with generous support. Schools that improved their grade or got an "A" received extra funding. Teachers got bonuses for successes like getting more kids to pass Advanced Placement tests. And students required to repeat third grade got intensive help at free summer reading camps.
States adopting the policies now, in a time of austerity, tend to leave out the costly support systems. That has stirred protests from school superintendents, school board members, teachers unions and parents who see the policies as punitive, humiliating and too narrowly focused on a single test as a measure of success.
Voters have spoken loudly, too. In this month's election, overwhelmingly Republican electorates overturned Bush-style reforms in Idaho and South Dakota and ousted the Indiana state schools chief, who had enacted much of the Florida formula.
In Florida, meanwhile, the durability of the Bush-era gains has come into question.
NBC News' Education Nation case studies
High school graduation rates rose during Bush's tenure but remain substantially lower than in other large and diverse states, including California, New York and Ohio, according to new federal data. Students' average score on the ACT college entrance exam has not improved and remains well below states such as Missouri and Ohio, where a comparable percentage of students take the test.
Florida's scores on the National Assessment of Educational Progress, widely considered the most reliable metric, dropped on all four key tests last year -- fourth- and eighth-grade reading and math. On all four tests, low-income students fell further behind their wealthier peers.
Jaryn Emhof, a spokeswoman for the Bush foundation, said the slipping scores are an indication that "schools were getting complacent" and need to be pushed with higher standards.
Opponents contend Bush's reforms never deserved much credit for the gains in the first place.
Other factors were at play, they argue. Florida voters passed a constitutional amendment to limit class size in 2002, for instance. And Bush's tenure coincided with soaring property tax receipts, thanks to the housing boom, which led to more local funding for schools. Per-pupil spending in Florida jumped 22 percent from 2001 to 2007, after accounting for inflation. It has since fallen sharply.
"There's this single-minded notion that only the program has supported yield improvements," said Ruth Melton, director of legislative relations for the Florida School Boards Association. "There's more to this than meets the eye."
Some recent research has cast doubt on the long-term effectiveness of the Bush policies.
A Harvard education research group reported this summer that Florida students who were held back in third grade notched a big boost in test scores initially, but the effects faded to insignificance before they entered high school. And annual studies commissioned by the state have found no evidence that low-income students who receive vouchers to attend private schools do any better at reading or math than their peers.
As for Florida's charter schools, a recent report found their students consistently outscore kids in traditional schools on state tests. The charters, however, serve fewer poor and special-needs students and fewer students still learning English.
Meanwhile, researchers have found that other states, such as Massachusetts, have boosted achievement without Florida-style reforms, using more old-fashioned remedies such as increasing spending and imposing rigorous curricular standards.
After an exhaustive study of state-by-state academic gains, the Harvard researchers concluded in a July report that "the connection between reforms and gains ... thus far is only anecdotal, not definitive."
Emhof, the Bush foundation spokeswoman, said that while "there is no silver bullet" to improve schools, the Florida formula "is the path with the most proven results." The state's size and diversity mean "if something works in Florida, it can work anywhere," she said.
Meet and greet
Indeed, the Bush foundation touts the Florida test gains as "perhaps the greatest public policy success story of the past decade" and aggressively presses its formula on other states.
Hundreds of emails obtained under a public records request by the nonprofit advocacy group In the Public Interest, which opposes privatization of schools, show the foundation working closely with allies in Maine, New Mexico, Florida and elsewhere to craft public policy.
Foundation employees write legislation and edit proposed bills line by line, then send in experts to testify on their behalf, the emails show.
The Bush foundation also funds trips and events to introduce Bush's donors to policy makers. At last year's national summit in San Francisco, the foundation set aside two hours for several state superintendents of education, dubbed "Chiefs for Change," to meet the foundation's sponsors.
In an email forwarded to Executive Director Levesque, an official from Apple Inc. also requested access to the chiefs to tout the company's products.
"This is a great opportunity. ... But there are a dozen other companies that want access," Levesque responded. She couldn't accommodate Apple, she wrote, unless the chiefs first found time to meet with "all the other companies including those actually funding" the Chiefs for Change network.
Apple declined to comment.
Bush foundation donors include family philanthropies, such as those established by Microsoft founder Bill Gates and New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. Corporate donors include Connections Education, a division of global publishing giant Pearson; Amplify, the education division of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp.; and K12, a publicly traded company that runs online schools.
Many of these donors sit on a Digital Learning Council that helped draft the Bush foundation's policy agenda. Key planks call for states to require online course work in high school and to lift restrictions that hinder cyber-school growth, such as limits on class size.
Studies in several states including Pennsylvania and Colorado have found that online students fare far worse than their peers in reading and math. Bush has said bad programs should be shut down, but he believes online schools have great potential to offer personalized, self-paced education.
"This is not about our commercial success," said Sari Factor, chief executive officer of E2020 Inc., which develops online curricula and recently signed up as a foundation sponsor. "We're focused on what's right for kids."
Still, Factor acknowledged that E2020 has "absolutely" benefited from Bush's advocacy.
In particular, Bush often talks up an Arizona charter school called Carpe Diem, which uses the E2020 online curriculum, employing just four teachers for 225 students because the kids do so much work online. Bush has flown policy makers from across the country to admire the school's innovation and cost cutting. That has brought more clients to E2020, Factor said.
Arizona data shows Carpe Diem test scores have fallen sharply over the past two years, a drop founder Rick Ogston attributes to a new curriculum and the sudden death of the principal.
That has not slowed its momentum; after visiting Carpe Diem on a trip paid for by the Bush foundation, Indiana officials urged Ogston to apply to open a branch there. The head of the state charter school board, Claire Fiddian-Green, says the school's "fairly strong track record" impressed her despite the recent slip in test scores. The new Carpe Diem campus in Indianapolis opened this fall.
Ogston said he and other charter and online school operators count on Bush's foundation to remove obstacles to their growth, such as state laws that require students to put in time in a physical classroom.
"We come to them to say, 'These policies are in the way, and it would be great if you could change them,'" Ogston said. "That's what they do better than anyone."
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Leave a Comment:
Jeb Bush is a strong proponent of Reading, Riting and Rithmatic.
That, and using taxpayer funds for promoting religion. Seriously, I think that regardless of the school's accreditation, rating, or any other metric, if they force their students to undergo "religious instruction," they should not be receiving taxpayer funds.
Jeb has been talked about too highly lately even some mentioning 2016.
Time for the NBC/MSNBC Media Mafia to take him down.
Why pick on NBC/MSNBC they didn't take that goofball Romney down... and this country is NEVER going to go for another Bush... they simply are not that good.. fine someone else....
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Fool me three times........
Or to quote President George W. Bush, "fool me once, shame on(long awkward silence) shame on you. Fool me (even longer more awkward silence)you can't get fooled again."
Ah, the Conservative goal of dismantling public education in America hits a speed bump. Guess the facts have a Liberal agenda as usual.
It does, however, provide a good example of how "Conservatism" is not Conservative in the traditional sense;
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conservative
Today's "Conservatives" are in fact radicals, seeking to fundamentally change the nature and practice of our American society.
So why didn't the GOP run Jeb instead of Rummy & Ryan????
Ok, here's the fact, children's time is valuable! The amount of time that a child can afford spend on book learning is very limited, there are so many more important things for them to learn. What to do then?
Trying to get them to spend more time, is not only a lost cause, it is wrong. Teach them things that deliver the most, for the amount of time required. Hint, "new math" aint it. Yes, keep it simple. Reading, 'riting and 'rithmatic. The first is the most important because, if you can read you can dig the rest out. Teach the basic skills, the things they need to survive, if they want more they can graduate or go to higher education.
Sees thru gloss,
He also helped with brother George's home schooling. Duh
Devil's Son--Here's the ending to that old saying: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me three times, kill me, kill me now,"
If Republicans are looking to another Bush to bail them out of the mess they're in, all I can say is good luck with that. Remember -- Bush 41 lost after one term. Bush 43 was so bad Republicans didn't want him near their convention. The Bush name is poison in US politics.
Elliot -- you've resurfaces after the drubbing Romney and Republicans took in the election!! Where's your buddy Fed up in Ohio and the rest of your friends who were telling us how Romney was going to win in a landslide?? I'll give you credit -- at least you have the courage to show up again.
I-wonder I agree with you. Reading is the tool above all tools, for knowledge retrieval, processing and critical thinking. They are complicating education for kids in manners that are not benefiting them( nor the country later on of course).
I have seen 12 years old homework requirements in sciences that are making something easy complicated, confusing the kids. Many schools are asking kids to do Research on-line, i.e. search through all the Internet low quality and garbage info to find the knowledge and the facts. Send a twelve year old on a wild goose chase see how motivated and connected he feels with the concept of "school". I personally think it is a way for teachers to forego their responsibility which is to make difficult material accessible to kids, not the other way around.
Yea,a charter school just had to close down in Florida for bad performance but not before giving the principal a couple hundred thousand "salary" out of school funds also unaccountable to state for anything.
JohnRN,
Good point. And we all know how much the conservatives love to hand out taxpayer funded performance bonuses to "top talent."
Yea I was going there but sometimes this smart @ss self censors.
I guess we're in the "fool me twice" part with Obama now.
Yea he's what he's done to fool you.
Bureau Of Economic Analysis: GDP Up 7.1 Percent, $905.2 Billion During Obama Administration; Consistent Positive Growth Every Quarter For Over Three Years. According to data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, in the first quarter of 2009, gross domestic product (GDP), adjusted for inflation, was approximately $12.71 trillion. The next quarter it fell to $12.7 trillion and has since risen for thirteen consecutive quarters. Since the first quarter of 2009, GDP has increased by $905.2 billion, or 7.1 percent.
Bureau Of Labor Statistics: Private-Sector Jobs Up 759,000 Since Obama Took Office, 3.8 Million Since Recession Ended; Growing For 32 Consecutive Months. According to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), when Obama took office, there were approximately 110,985,000 Americans employed in the private sector. When the recession officially ended in June 2009, there were 107,933,000 Americans employed in the private sector. Since bottoming in February 2010, private-sector payrolls have increased for 32 consecutive months by nearly 5 million jobs. Since the recession ended in June 2009, the economy has added roughly 3.8 million jobs.
If only Obama hadn't dug such a big hole before Jan 2009! Oh wait he didn't dig that hole at all now did he!!!!
Devil's Son
If we have had "positive growth for every quarter over the last 3 years" why is the GDP 2%???
Devil's Son
Wasn't Obama in the Senate in 2007 and 2008? Those were the years of the INCREASE in spending during the Bush Administration. Looks like Obama voted himself a 500 Billion Deficit BEFORE he was elected President!!
Just another example of the Republican smoke snd mirrors approach. They want to privatize everything, and this was their 'proof' that education was better off in private hands. This is now proven to be wrong, but in typical Republican fashion, they will never admit that they were wrong.
This is simple. If A Bush did it is probably a cluster@!$%#.
The definition of 'fascism' is corporate control of the government. Most news outlets, print and other media, are owned by corporations. Now they want to control what our kids are taught and how they teach it. Sounds pretty Orwellian to me. Add to this, taking art, music and physical education out of curriculum because its too expensive and, viola, you have MacEducation; it makes someone lots of money but there's no educational nutrition to it and it all tastes the same.
Any implication "that corporate donors give to us for us to advance their agenda" is simply false, said Patricia Levesque, the foundation's executive director.
====================================================
Okay, everyone that believes that, raise your hand, and remember to keep your mouth open so you don't suffocate.
Elliot, go find E.T., maybe he can help you to accept the reality of things.
The changes in education made in Florida are a disaster. Schools are now strictly teaching to the test in order to get an A and additional funding. That is all the students hear about for several months prior to the exam. Also, not just for reading. Math and Science are included. The kids get pamphlets that are completely geared to passing the exam.
Definitely not successful or something to brag about.
Fed up. That is not just a Florida problem. I wish more time would be spent observing what countries whose students score well on rigorous tests do. I believe Finland is a good example. If we do not straighten out our schools, we will continue to decline.
What a tag team effort by the Bush brothers, one puts into place "No Child Left Behind" which actually leaves entire schools behind if they don't score well on the tests, and the other designs his educational system around studying for that test. These educational reforms are a burden on teachers and schools and lead to less educated children, which is what much of the Republican party wants.
Schools have to teach to a standardized level of education. If they didn't, they would be graduating kids because they made gains but not to a standard high enough for them to become productive to society. Public education isn't just about making progress in education from a varying baseline, its about getting kids to a level where they can join the workforce. You'll know they are at that level by grading their work. You standardize that level with a test.
riverboy -
And don't forget that Jeb elected his brother POTUS with the hanging chads and exclusions of eligible voters and massive fraud. What a team! This is the man of integrity I want to bet on to educate our children.
Elliot, do you really believe that the education should be focused on memorizing dates and names, and cutting funding the schools receive if the tests scores are lower than other schools? Seems like it's hurting those that need the help.
Elliot; I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with other statements you’ve made,” that I’ve read”. But this one is absolutely correct. The problem is what method or methods do we use to achieve that standard! I believe a student’s mental interactions with educators and peers are the most important aspects for this development in the early formative years. The “biggest” impediment to this is the amount and quality of the educators.
Riverboy; I don’t believe Elliot is advocating teaching the test, at least I hope not.
The problem with that is that with so much on the line, almost all the schools are dedicating their efforts to teaching students how to pass the test. And that's it! Any other learning is secondary to that objective.
I know a teacher in Florida. She is afraid that the combination of NCLB and the Bush "reforms" have damaged education so badly we may never recover.
Head in a Jar; There are needs and wants, wants are extracurricular.
Folks this is the reality of education in America. The NEA is/has killed educating kids. They are dumbing down America. Whether you like Jeb or not test scores did rise while he was in office. Seems funny how this comes out now 5 years after he left office and now that he is bashing the education union.
As I have had over two decades of teaching English and Debate at high school and college levels, you might say I am a tad "dyed in the wool" against the Ticky Tacky Techie Toys that abound in today's society. And you folks may disagree with me further, but I do not permit cell phones iPods, uPods, hisPods, et al and I do mean ALL, into my classroom.
Neither do I permit laptops there.
My job is to teach English communication skills and literature, and perhaps even more important, logical thinking and problem solving. Cybering? Nope. Not in my classroom.
The State in which I live and work decided to encourage students to be "happy" in their studies and some years ago, the appointed chairman of the State Department of Education changed the rules for English class requirements to achieve a state's twelfth grade diploma.
The law stated only one semester of English would be required between grades 9 through 12 for graduation. This vaunted politician had a State education credential himself, but only a few hours of substitute teaching experience behind him.
It could be said to be amusing that since I was teaching in a senior high school (grades 10 through 12), a student could satisfy the English requirement in Middle school, making all our courses "an elective."
What a challenge! English an Elective? Wow! My boss, (the Principal of the school), gave me an assignment for the following year: start a Debate Team to compete in tournaments not just with other schools in the state, but those across the nation.
duh... I told him I didn't know anything about formal debate. He smiled and said, "Then learn it." (Of course, although our English Department had 30 teachers in it, and he decided to point at me, it may have been because in Faculty Meetings I rather often raised my hand questioning a procedure.... It may have decided him to occupy me away from such interruptions? lol)
Making a long story ... longer? I broke away from the favored philosophy of maintaining small classes. I studied harder every book I could find that spring and summer (there were no classes in Debate in our town, but I grabbed a course in Logic during our University's Summer School) and listed the class for sign-ups. I had bargained with my boss to be sure it would give English credit.
I called it "The Art of Winning an Argument." (Hope you are still with me here... I had a profound surprise on a couple of levels)
Over 45 students, in a line around the corner of the hallway, showed to sign up. I admitted them into my classroom, they filled all the desks, sat on the floor, and leaned against the wall. I think my reputation of never limiting class sign-ups to keep the class small may have been partly the cause.
However, I proceeded as I usually did to explain the goals of the course, and the kinds of lessons and homework to expect. I figured this might change some minds, and yes, a few did and I signed them back out with a smile of encouragement for the other classes available. Still, those who remained created the largest class in the department... that first year we never dropped below 35 young people.
What I really want to say here, though, is how and why I altered my lesson plans to something just a bit different. Without announcing this to the class, I realized that first week where I included my usual written assignment... in a few paragraphs on one notebook page, written right then, in class... "tell me what you want most to discover and learn in this class."
This is what I want to share with you I hope are reading this. The overwhelming response with only a few exceptions I could summarize this way: "I can never win ...." whether with parents, friends, teachers, bosses (a number of the youngsters worked after school)... I devolved to that one sentence.
Those otherwise confidential small essays (only the student and I were to read it and that was part of the assignment I made as subtlety as I could), reached my heart. I changed the course in its focus. In my mind it became "The Art of Persuasion."
The students who had written more pragmatically (creating a Debate Team) also needed my help and attention, and they got it. The challenge for me was not making the two goals contradictory. We all learned together and I did a lot of one on one (which I was also noted for).
Never doubt that the teachers in a school are constantly evaluated among the students with each other as to what to expect, and thank goodness for that. Right on, perhaps wrong, or in between, they are thinking. And isn't that a teacher's job, after all?.
The results of the Florida deterioration in test scores tell the tale. Perhaps the event I describe above you may think out in left field. But Individual Differences is what we teachers must accommodate. But more, we must add to that, being proactive by instilling in students Self Discipline, Self Respect, and most, Self Achievement to be proud of, is also a teacher's job.
I think the Florida educational programs began to fall away from those essentials. And we can never quit teaching them. Never.
And that, it is my conviction, is only achievable by human beings who can instantly adjust back and forth actively to interactions. Now you know why I don't allow Cybering implements in the classroom while I teach.
What the students do away from school is their responsibility. Helping them to find their own sense of responsibility, is mine.
SecondSight, I applaud your success in the class you described.
I would like to know how and or what you did to have success in classes where the students were assigned to attend, or were disinterested in the subject matter.
Don't forget that the co-author of No Child Left Behind was the late and great hero of the Democrats, Sen. Ed Kennedy.
SecondSight, I don't really see the relevance of your story. While it is impressive that you
managed to succeed in stating a new course at your school, it does not really
have much to do with the idea of education reform or electronic learning (also,
if you are not utilizing technology, you are probably missing out on checking
for plagiarism using sites like Turnitin.co, which might be a problem if you
still teach English).
Regardless, I do feel obligated to point out that during my 4 years of English in
high school, I spent 2 of them making cookie-cutter essays with the
general-specific-general format and reading books that were approaching a 5th
grade reading level. The other two were in AP courses, and I spent most of
those classes memorizing vocabulary an adapting my essay technique to collage standards. However, logical
thinking and problem solving were never really part of the curriculum. It does
not take much thought to pump out 50 essays on why people are, deep down,
actually evil (or good, it really doesn't matter, as they both can be BS'd in 10 minutes). With the amount of time I wasted having to pick out metaphors
and literary elements in books that were, quite literally, pieces of trash
(many of the were actually falling apart when I got them) just so I could write
an essay that was complete bs, get an A, and then get on to do my actual wok in
other subjects, I could have been Valedictorian. Instead, I got stuck with a
bunch of A-‘s for classes where I didn’t have time to study for tests do to
some idiotic English assignment (which I always seemed to have).
Now, don’t get me wrong, your state may have a different curriculum.
But from my experience, English has always seemed like it should have been an
elective, since the skills taught in it did not really ever really apply to any other class (I had to
learn a different paper format for every single one). However, while I do believe it should
still be available, and if they modified the courses curriculum to focus more
on writing, creativity, and critical thinking it should probably be mandatory
for at least 4 semesters, in its current state it is basically useless for
everything except getting the vocab for the SAT.
Finally, as an unrelated side note, students (especially
those in elementary School) need time in the classroom, socializing with their
peers. If they do not get any, they end up lacing the social skills necessary
to succeed once they either go to college or get a job. So, while computerized classes
are useful, utilizing them to such an extent that you only need 4 teachers is both
excessive and not conducive to the children’s education.
Oh please, not anopther Bush? Jeb and his policies are just as bad as George W's but the scariest thing is Jeb is smarter.
What's smarter than a bag of rocks, a Hammer?
I predict Jeb Bush will run in 2016. I even predict that he'll win himself a whole bag full of Republican primaries because of his perceived electability. But against any decent Democratic opponent, he'll do worse than McCain and Romney in the general election because of Bush fatigue.
We have precedents in this country of two close relatives being elected president. Three from the same nuclear family, particularly where one left office so unpopular that he didn't get invited to or mentioned at his party's next nominating convention (and the other was voted out of office after only one term) is going to be more than a lot of people will think is good for this country.
Let's face it, if we had elected three presidents from the same nuclear family because they provided good government, a lot of people would begin to smell a whiff of monarchy. But from a family that has yet to prove it can handle the job?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no.
Bush's grading system has led to teachers spending the whole year 'teaching to the test' so that their kids pass the FCAT tests. Its basically a failure of a system.
But losses in test scores have been compounded by the recession, and the heavy hand of our ridiculous Governor, Rick Scott.
Bush does get credit for caring, though, and he deserves credit for at least trying. No one else in Tallahassee gave or now gives a damn. It was a bold move to make in a State that was obviously lagging behind.
Bush is human, and therefore he has his flaws. He has flirted with pandering to the hard-core GOP a couple of times (ie. Terry Schiavo) but as a Florida Democrat, I respect him, and would be happy to hear what he had to say if he ran in 2016. I know many Democrats here in Florida who feel the same.
"Bush's grading system has led to teachers spending the whole year 'teaching to the test'"
Which is EXACTLY what Democrats said would happen with this bull crap system - but would anyone listen?
No - because your heads were all up Bush's ass so far you could smell his tonsils.
Hey Sam, if the test covers the material in the curriculum, then teaching to the test is exactly what's needed -- stop using NEA talking points!
LOL. The Dallas Cowboys' Jerry Jones "cares" about winning. He "trys" to win. He's still stupid.
CME - the problem is that these skills are not real life applicable. Wouldn't you prefer your kids were learning about accounting, financial responsibility, business, cultural studies and developing their critical thinking skills instead of memorizing facts for a test they'll only need to take once?
I wish they would learn simple math. My four year old grandson is learning addition and subtraction in his preschool. Last weekend I bought Girl Scout cookies in a strip mall. The girl, aged 10 or so, could not compute the change for an eight dollar purchase when given a twenty. In my younger days, I taught high school math. What has happened to these kids who cannot do simple math?
Question: Was it a "bold move " of a caring person, or just a business opportunity?? (and a chance to push religion)?
Lulu -
Pardon my skepticism, but I saw the same lack of math skills 45 years ago when I got out of HS. The difference is that now most places use cash registers that do the math for the cashier, along with scanners so they do not have to enter numbers.
Lulu - she was probably nervous! my girl scouts used to clam up all the time around new people but i assure you they could do math. give the girl a break!
PatriotTom, Really mot of my friends had no trouble with simple math.....trig maybe!
Mind, I have seen it so many times. It is why we need to import techies which I really do not approve of. Math scores are in the dumper. How do we get engineers if no one can do math and science?
That's the point. It doesn't. The curriculum is designed around passing the test.
And the test has become the curriculum.
My guess is the CME runs a for-profit charter scam school.
And that's the problem with Democrats and why we keep losing offices. You seem to think that as Democrats we HAVE to listen to others of differing views when you haven't yet figured out that you cannot trust a Republican, ever! People like you keep saying you want to vote for the best qualified, not realizing that if you did that, you'd vote a straight Democratic ticket. Wake up fool...
How about his reputation for raising a convicted felon & prescription drug abuser?
I hope you have no family issues.
Education of children is roughly 25% teachers and 75% parents. Poor children due poorly because they have piss poor parents to help them. Good luck fixing that
So is your solution to just leave poor kids out to dry because their parents suck?
No its called Special Education. Heard of it? Teachers cannot instill all the virtues needed for someone to become successful in life in a classroom. Straight A students have a hard enough time getting by in the current state of the country - so please - fill me in on your solutions to fix bad parents. More entitlement programs?
It's not just poor children who have bad parenting -- I live in a middle to upper middle economic neighborhood and there are many children being ignored by their parents who couldn't be bothered with overseeing their children's education. In some cases, they complain that the kids have too much homework and when the subject of extending the school year comes up, they really start screaming.
Clearly i've heard of special education programs. Don't be condescending. My solution is to supplement schools in poor neighborhoods with additional tutoring programs, afterschool programs and programs designed to take some of the bad influence away from the bad parents and more on programs like girl scouts, boy scouts, big brother, etc., as well as additional funding for schools with poor test scores. Sorry you feel as though those are entitlement programs but a child doesn't deserve to abandoned and given up on because they have lousy parents. I work with kids in poor neighborhoods and they don't deserve a life of minimum wage just because their parents have given up on themselves.
Food and shelter might be a good start. Or maybe you think those kids should just suck it up and live on the streets. Bad parents are found in plenty of rich homes, by the way, maybe more of them.
MindYa, I agree that positive influences need to be focused on these kids and, actually, all kids. Throwing money at poorly performing schools is not the answer. Check out the DC schools, very high per capita funding, yet poor results. We have to get to why.
Lulu- so how do you help struggling public schools then? You don't give them money, good teachers don't go there to teach and the kids continue to struggle. What other option do we have here?
I said DC schools are well funded. The money is wasted on too many administrators. Look at Chicago....very highly paid teachers who are not held accountable for anything.
So you're proposing low-paid teachers who would be held accountable for everything?
CME: I don't need you or Jeb Bush or the school to give my kid homework. Now I KNOW you have no clue. More than an hour of homework is not beneficial at all. Maybe you should do some research?
Severed. No point trying to converse with you since you just twist it all. Where did I say a damn thing about paying teachers poorly. That said, the unions protect poor teachers. And there is no return on the money just thrown at a problem without understanding what really works. Other countries have better results without just tossing money at it.
And back to accountability....are you proposing teachers should not be accountable?
lulu - teachers can't run a school WHILE trying to teach kids. administrators are vital to the process and because their job requires more education, they are paid more than teachers. are you encouraging GASP socialism?!?
I think you need to improve your comprehension skills, Mind. There are too many administrators and it takes funding away from the classroom. Where did I say pay administrators less? I know many teachers and most agree with this assessment.
lulu- where do you think the money comes from if they raise teachers' salary? oh thats right! they take it out of the salary for administrators.
Bingo. I've read a lot of idiotic stuff here, and this is the first post that comes to the crux of the matter. All riverboy and samual adams want to do is keep giving each other reach arounds. They have nothing to offer except their hatred of anyone named Bush. They both probably think Van Camps beans are better than Bush's beans on virtue of the name alone.
KCBONES - I am a democrat through and through but those are the kinds of liberals I hate. I wish I could up vote your post a million times.
Mind. Something seems to be wrong with you regarding this issue. I have never seen administrators have money taken away. Are you seriously going to tell me that we need all these paper pushing administrators rather than better functioning classrooms? Give me a break!
lulu- you know nothing about the education system if you think they're just pushing paper around lol BUT let's just pretend you're right and we laid off 2 administrators at each school. That's like $100,000 a year (minus overtime for the other employees who have to fill their shoes), which wouldnt even make a dent in a 500+ student school. Your economics is flawed and you don't understand how a school budget works.
So mind.just throw more money after bad. Lets raise property taxes and other taxes to throw more money. And never understand what really works. We spend more than most countries on Ed. Many are way more successful....Finland, South Korea, Singapore. Why do we have to have so many foreign born scientists and engineers? Why can we not educate our children?
BTW , the per capita spending on education was $28,170 in 2020. Do they really need more money? Where does it go? Some of the schools are in disgusting condition. Why?
And another thing, Mind.....you sound like you are part of the problem...just spend money and not have any accountability.
oh lulu. you don't know anything about me. I have done more efficiency research for nonprofits and school programs than you could imagine. It is MY JOB. I'm not advocating throwing an excessive amount of money at things without knowing for certain that it will positively affect those students education. Administrators survey whether or not certain teaching tools are effective and get rid of them if not. You think they're pushing pencils and wasting time. I know from first hand experience they're tightening up the budget. Because once again, it's my JOB. But let me ask you this. What is your job? Do you work with non profits or the public education system?
Hypocrite.
And ,Sam, tell us your solutions?
Why don't you offer some. He hit the nail on the head except for some wording. I think what he meant was poor parents in the bad sense, not in the financial sense. Parents need to step up and help their kids achieve. Many think the schools are for dumping your kids in the morning and getting them back after work. In middle school and up, teachers may only have 30-40 minutes of class time to spend teaching, and a couple disruptive kids can totally ruin that. Teachers have no means of discipline in the schools today. My wife has called parents on many occasions to talk to them about their disruptive/disrespectful kids, only to be asked "what did you do to provoke them"? This is typically from the entitled minority single mother. Absurd. Many of the truly appreciative parents are the illegal immigrant parents that know they want their kids to have an education, but can't speak English well enough to help. Florida education is a mess, and it can't all be blamed on Jeb Bush.
KCBones - spot on minus your generalization of minority single mothers. I actually have more issues with the white suburban moms not wanting to punish or take responsibility for their kids than i do with minorities. let's avoid the stereotypes and generalizations in the future please.
Minda, who made you the board chairmen? If someone wants to speak from experience and first hand accounts, (i.e. KC), he has every right to. It seems he is living it and not "consulting" for it. Screw your PC bs.
You realize you're being hypocritical right? KC is allowed to share his stories but I'm not?
Nice spin Minda. Where did I say you couldn't share your stories? Typical...trying to rationalize when you are called out.
my name's Mindy and that's the way a forum works. you post a comment, other people respond. i AGREED with KC and put in my two cents. Keep in mind that I also work with non profits and the public education system. I did exactly what KC did: offer insight and criticism. Now you tell me exactly what I did wrong.
Start holding back students unwilling or unable to pass end-of-school-year tests in math, reading, science and social studies, and then watch what happens. Eliminating social promotions and having a load of 11 and 12 year olds in 4th grade for a few years should do the trick!! Nothing like a little humiliation to light a fire under Johnnie and Susie.
What if they have a learning disability? How is humiliating the kid going to "light the fire" under them?
Children with legitimate learning disabilities are accommodated on standards of learning tests in my state (VA). If their disabilities are severe enough, they get an individual education plan (IEP) which sets and measures their individual progress towards goals established just for each of them -- they are not subject to the same testing as children without learning disabilities.
If they have a learning disability, then get it addressed. There are programs and laws around this. Not all kids who cannot read or even make change are learning disabled. We need to find ways to help all kids learn.
Not all public schools are effectively handling learning disabilities and in california, i've noticed a pretty big issue with kids learning difficulties not being addressed. Good for Virginia for tackling the issue head on but not every state works like that.
My main point is - how does humiliating a kid force them to learn quicker if their schools are still in a state of disrepair and teachers who just dont care about teaching them anything but what is on the test?
You seem to think that teachers should be teaching material that isn't related to the tests. Since the test material is drawn from the approved curriculum, your comment makes no sense. Also, you need to learn what these tests focus on -- very basic stuff. The problem is partly due to the students' disinterest in learning anything. It has little to do with the physical condition of schools. Feeling sorry for the students may make you feel good, but it does nothing to help them achieve a level of ability to allow them to survive in today's highly technical society where we need more brains, less brawn.
CME - not true. I think the material on the test is just as important as skills needed to be an adult like financial responsibility and proper nutrition. The approved curriculum is the problem. Also, cool. You can choose to feel no compassion for the students who are struggling and blame them because you think they just don't want to learn but that doesn't help the students either.
"Poor children due poorly because they have piss poor parents to help them."
And what is YOUR excuse for bad grammar? Your parents done didn't teach you right?
Just look at the No Child Left Behind policies in Texas that Junior enacted. The first four years after he left as governor the high school dropout rates doubled due to his policies.
Provide some evidence that the drop out rate doubling was due to "his policies".
He destroyed higher education in Florida and added layers of bureaucrats and costs while stabbing the Republican University Chancellor in the back.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let it be Bush in 2016. Political suicide. Let's nominate the brother of the guy you were too embarassed to even invite to your convention. Yeah, that'll work.
For VP, how about somebody like Palin/Santorum/Perry/Trump. That ticket will be a huge hit, I'm sure.
GOP. The gift that just keeps giving. lol.
Silly me, I thought this article was about Jeb Bush and his education policies.
Nope CME, every single article is about the next election.
Seriously, CME? You think they just decided to do an article on JB? That's so darned cute!
NAB
Not
another
bush
Not ever.
When George P. is ready, watch out. Smart and Hispanic.
They said Jeb was smart.
lulu in lala land
We had a very similar Dog & Pony show from brother here in Texas. It seems they both tried to pass themselves off as something they were not and now their phoney-baloney ways have caught up with them. This country has had more than its share of the Bush family.Now Jeb's son is about to continue to try to extend the family's unwarranted sence of entitlement [ like the Kennedys] and is posturing to run for statewide office.
More than four years out and the media WHORES are already at it. Try doing some work on the Pathetic One you helped elect. Ever hear about Four DEAD Americans in Benghazi that Hussein, Hillary and Panetta were RESPONSIBLE for protecting, but did NOTHING and then LIED about it? Try sticking your brown noses up their _asses or at least your Own.
No but I have heard of 4,000 Americans killed in the middle east for WMD that didn't exist.... I didn't think that you'd bring that up.... get over Benghazi.... the American public doesn't really care... jobs, jobs, jobs.... the rest is bull dew!
Of course they don't care, mainly because they've been told not to care. Someday the truth will become known about who gave the order not to support the ambassador when the attack came. This should not be the political football it's become. Everyone should be interested in uncovering the truth -- 2 months and counting!!
Kevin that number is much higher if you count private contractors, like the ones killed in Benghazi.
riverboy - and a hell of a lot higher if you count Iraqi civilians.
Yep Dale you're right. But I'm just saying they are so upset about an ambassador and three private contractors, so exactly how many private contractors is worth one ambassador life? Because thousands of private contractors died for the Bush WMD lies but nobody cares, if one ambassador died in Iraq would that be the straw that broke the camel's back? And until then nobody cares?
How many more will die in Afghanistan for Obama's lost cause?
I was just thinking last night.........we need a 3rd Bush in the White House, that would just be perfect.
Bush II might be just be unseated as the absolute, without a question, WORST president in our history.
Sorry Dog. Obama has taken that over without question. Maybe he can turn his legacy around in the next four years but it doesn't seem promising.
I live in Florida, I was educated in these schools. Big difference once FCAT came in, used to be a lot of kids in high school that can't read here. We were 49th in the nation. We are 10th now, with the fastest rising test scores, and 1st in the nation for native spanish speakers and their children. That is results, and Bush did it. After years and years of Democrat control of education in the south, things are turning around now. Lets encourage change, lets embrace policies that work, instead of sinking into our "Bush, republicans, brothers, conspiracy, big scumbum liars" etc...
Didn't you read the article?
Rick, this is an opinion piece, not facts. And of course the traditional Ed people will find fault with anything different.
Before the guy gets secret service protection, can someone please put him out of our misery?
Are you insane?
I hope you get reported. You are part of the problem.
If anything happens to him, you will be vulnerable to a hassle you don't want.
You have just made a public request for someone to cause him harm. Don't try to squirm out of it by saying that wasn't what you meant.
I'm not a Jeb Bush supporter but your kind of rhetoric goes too far. Just like when Sharon Angel suggested 2nd Amendment remedies. But you were more specific.
Don't be like those crazies.
Time to go on the run Levity, I don't think you realize the gravity of what you just said. Threats against politicians are not taken lightly, Secret Service and FBI come down heavy on those who make such posts even on facebook.
Woooo, think I got all the puns out of my system for 2012.
What you're saying is really not true except for minorities. The real test of improving scores would be student's scores on the ACT or the SAT. These scores did not improve under Jeb Bush they actually declined. So using a test that changes favorably toward students in an election year and then raises the criteria in non election years as a gauge of success... well that's just not credible. If Bush's family was not employed by Pearson publishers ( see Neils)Bush would not have introduced one or more of their testing and test prep products to the state for purchasing at a cost of millions. These products brought the Bush family riches. Minority scores on the other hand did improve because Bush's policies shifted some of the best teachers to lower achieving student's classrooms. The irony is that many of the Florida republicans are teachers and got what they deserved when they voted for Bush and the current governor who is getting away from the FCAT ( the Pearson test of student achievement). The new governor wants to move dollars over to a different kind of testing for teachers and students ....drug testing . That's because he has drug company cronies oh and he also has an interest in charter schools. So to all you Florida republican teachers good luck. Maybe next time you can elect a governor who really cares about children maybe just a little more than his or her wallet....
Jeb's education plan in Florida is, at it's root, geared toward replacing public schools with private, funded with tax dollars. It's appalling that vouchers in tax dollars can be used to attend private, even religious, schools. Some of the teachers are barely qualified, the on-line mandate creates horrible teacher-student ratios, religion classes are mandatory. Follow the dollars.
As an Independent voter, when Jeb decided not to run in 2012, that told me the GOP made a calculation that Obama would likely get re-elected... because I think Jeb would have appealed to a wide array of voters (same could be said for Mitch Daniels). At least for me, it was like the GOP threw up the white flag and ran out less than stellar candidates.
I understand clearly that Jeb has his detractors and not everyone will agree with me, but he's a Republican I could support. Not saying he would have got my vote, but I would have taken him much more seriously than any of the other GOP candidates that were put out there in 2012, except for maybe Huntsman.
Oh, Look! Karl Rove wrote a whole article for NBC! Isn't that helpful, though.
Perhaps Neil Bush could run after Jeb.
There is no way this country will a vote another Bush into office but the GOP is just stupid enough to try.
Why not? We have an never ending number of Kennedy's running all the time.
911 and the subsequent economically devastating war in Iraq, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Black Water and Halliburton is why not.
Jeb and his partner were in the savings and loan disaster-Jeb's PARTNER fled the country with a pot of money. That scandal was probably why George could step in front of him for the candidacy in the first place. Jeb had to disappear a while and he pretty much did, years ago. Can you imagine if the Kennedy family were involved in the savings and loan debaucle???
The point was why do they keep voting Kennedys in? No matter the legal problems and scandals.
The single best way to improve academic performance at all levels is PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT. Take an interest in what your kids are doing and pay attention to their homework. Turn off the TV and video game console and it all will fall into place. Simple, isn't it?
Finally! U.S. "journalists" are actually looking at what Jeb has done to education. His goal was to destroy public education and make college too expensive for the "less-than-wealthy" that he and all Republicans would rather not educate. Educated people are much harder to control and manipulate. Beginning with what he euphemistically called "accountability testing," which sucked all critical thinking out of education and replaced it with practice filling in Os. Then base teacher pay on those test results, which any fool could have foreseen causing massive cheating in order to keep one's salary, while our kids got dumber and dumber from being taught only "the test." No one ever asked why those who went through public schools before "accountability" are so smart they can tell that educators needed to be held financially responsible for their students' test scores. And yet, America's educational standing in the world has fallen drastically since Jeb and his ilk decided to "fix" education. What Jeb really knows best is how to fling red herrings to the people to keep them upset and unaware of things like Jeb's white elephant airport built on hundreds of acres of beautiful wetlands.
If the republicans think that the country is ready for yet another Bush in the Whitehouse they can stop their dreaming right now.