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Subscribe to RSSChina has offered a rare criticism of Pyongyang, the capital of North Korea, after the country fired a long-range rocket that has been described by U.S. officials as a weapons test. NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.
North Korea does not appear to be making preparations for a nuclear weapons test following Tuesday’s test of a space launch vehicle, which was believed to be cover for a long-range missile test, U.S. intelligence analysts told NBC News.
South Korean and Japanese officials had feared that a nuclear weapons test — its third after previous detonations in in October 2006 and May 2009 — would quickly follow the launch.
But word that the North isn’t thought to be preparing for a test is providing little solace for Seoul or Tokyo, mainly because recent intelligence suggests that the North has made significant advances in its nuclear weapons program.
According to a recent analysis, North Korea has a weapon stockpile that could threaten both countries and, in longer term, the United States. Some of the weapons have already been deployed, say U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity. Moreover, the North has begun research into more advanced and dangerous weapons, possibly even thermonuclear weapons, they say.
At the high end of the stockpile range, U.S. officials and other researchers said North Korea may already have up to "a few dozen" nuclear weapons that could be fitted atop its vast fleet of ballistic missiles. Those missiles are limited to an intermediate range, capable of hitting targets in Japan, South Korea or elsewhere in the northern Pacific, including U.S. military bases as far south as Guam, the officials believe.
South Korean Defense Ministry / Yonhap via AP
South Korean navy sailors carry debris from a rocket launched by North Korea, in the Yellow Sea, off Gunsan, South Korea on Wednesday. The debris is believed to be a fuel container of the first stage rocket. Defense officials said South Korea has no plans to return it to North Korea because the launch violated U.N. council resolutions.
'Highly provocative'
The U.S. believes the space launch test is part of a development plan for an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) capable of reaching the continental United States with a payload of several hundred kilotons — 10 to 20 times the size of the bombs that destroyed the Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland hinted about that Wednesday, calling the launch "highly provocative" and a "threat" to regional security. The U.S. is "concerned that all of this launching is about a weapons program and is not about peaceful uses of space," she added.
More North Korea coverage from NBC News
For the past several years, the U.S. also has been monitoring North Korean research into thermonuclear weapons — hydrogen bombs and bombs known as boosted fission weapons, in which plutonium and uranium are combined for a higher energy yield. (The problem is that if the North conducted a test and claimed that it was thermonuclear, the U.S. would have difficulty determining if the North was telling the truth. The test site at Kilchu is far enough inland that the U.S. would not have access to the particulate matter needed to make an accurate determination, experts say. )
David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security, or ISIS, a nonpartisan nuclear arms research group, said earlier this year that any tests in the future may also be about ensuring the reliability of North Korea's current weapons design.
There was anger, dismay and some surprise as North Korea launched a rocket in defiance of its critics abroad. NBC's Ian Williams reports from Beijing.
"Once you get beyond a dozen, it makes sense to test type and reliability of your weapons," he said. Albright said then that his group's estimate of North Korea's weapons stockpile is a bit less than those provided by the U.S. officials, but that ISIS, too, believes Pyongyang has "missile-deliverable weapons."
The design of the weapons is believed to be based on Chinese models (as were the first generation Pakistani nuclear weapons). The design is basic, and was developed in the 1960s with help from the Soviet Union, which used it to produce a whole line of nuclear warheads.
ANALYSIS: 'Spoiled child' North Korea snubs key ally China with rocket test
While some analysts suggest that the North is using its space rocket launch to gain attention ahead of next week’s presidential election in South Korea -- and possibly to force talks with the U.S. — some in the U.S. non-proliferation community think otherwise. They expect that once the North feels comfortable with its ICBM technology, it will deploy the missiles. They point to the Musudan intermediate range missile which was tested in middle of the last decade, then deployed — presumably with nuclear warheads — and aimed at Japan.
Once the North has confidence in the long-range missile based on the space rocket, U.S. officials believe they will deploy it as well, making North Korea the third nation to have nuclear weapons targeted at the United States, after Russia and China.
Many in the Obama administration see that as a more frightening prospect than Iran gaining nuclear weapons, believing that Tehran is a rational actor that will serve its own national interest and preserve the regime, compared to successive generations of North Korean leaders who have shown that they are unpredictable and erratic.
David Guttenfelder / AP
In this March 9, 2011 photo, a girl plays the piano inside the Changgwang Elementary School in Pyongyang, North Korea. (AP Photo/David Guttenfelder)
But would it force the U.S. turn to conduct face-to-face talks with the North? Nuland said Wednesday that the North has a better option.
Speaking of the North’s 27-year-old leader Kim Jong Un, Nuland said: "He can plot a way forward that ends the isolation, that brings relief and a different way of life and progress to his people, or he can further isolate them with steps like this. He can spend his time and his money shooting off missiles, or he can feed his people, but he can't have both."
Robert Windrem is a senior investigative producer for NBC News.
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We should be very rattled by North Korea having nuclear missiles.Nuclear missiles have only on purpose and that is mass destruction.In the hands of a country like North Korea it is not a matter of how they would use them but when.
They cannot feed their people or provide fuel to keep them warm but have the money to build billion dllar missles and nuclear arms? Their sat did not work and their missles are at best primitive.
Looks to me like they have been having both for a long time... back to the days of KJI.
They don't feed their people or keep them warm because all the money and relief packages, like the ones we keep sending the stupid little pygmies, goes straight into the military.
Translation: The Obama administration is not going to do a damn thing about it except continue on with ineffective sanctions that result in starvation and death for innocent people, while the N Korean leadership goes about its business unaffected. Ditto Iran. In the meantime, Mr Obama will continue to weaken our military by shutting down missile shields and getting rid of our nuclear deterrent.
Well! This story kinda makes me wonder why we invade Iraq and not N. Korea. I mean , like we all know they HAVE weapons of mass destruction. And what gets me is that they seem to forget that the USA is very capable, as we have seen in history of nuking you or invading you if need be. Without a doubt there is something wrong with their thinking process. What??? A food for nukes program???? They really should be careful about wanting to join the club of countries that haves nukes pointing at us. We as we have seen in the past been very capable and willing to use preemptive strikes.
By sanctions you mean the ones that the Bush administration started? I mean like come on. He ( Bush ) could have invade them . Like you know? They actually do have WMD.not like Iraq. Just saying since you just had to bring Obama into this seed and totally forget about Bushy..
Night Hawk, are you ever going to let it go? Bush is gone man, Obama is president, so enjoy his successes, and accept his obvious failures. Otherwise your credibility is as worthless as KJU's. Like his campaign slogan said, "forward".
they legitimately put a satellite in orbit...I dont see why we should suppress them. Suppression leads to hatred..rightfully so.
It seems NK will do what they want to do, back in the days before sanctions the citizens at least had a better diet.
Come on now RLTed, this certainly is not about suppression. Propaganda leads to hatred. Do you honestly believe that what most of the civilized world is asking of NK is suppression?
What we should do is stop playing their game. If they want nukes, fine, but fire just one off, and we guarantee it will be the last. They cant nuke the whole world before the whole world responds to such a threat. They are school yard bullies, lots of talk, but no real action.
Obama needs to get off his a$$ and do something to halt North Korea's progress toward weapons of mass destruction. Its too late after they have the weapon.
We should've just shot it down with a patriot missile to send them the message that even if they ever "do" try a warhead on a missile toward the USA, it'll be shot down anyway so save your breath.
I mean hey, we told them not to do it and they did so why shouldn't we do it?
I know two wrongs don't make a right but in this case, we needed to send them a message...
JK,
It's never too late. We have an extremely intelligent missile defense system that will take them another 50 yrs to figure out but by then, we'll still be two steps ahead of 'em.
Not true, nuclear missiles have two purposes, first like you said is for mass destruction, but the other is for mutual deterrence. Meaning, now that they have the nuclear missiles, we will tread allot lighter with them. I think they understand what would happen to them if they launched one on anyone. It would be genocide for them, a no win situation.
I do see your point, maybe suppression is the wrong description. But I dont see any benefit to them to have nuclear weapons. Just testing the weapon itself is very dangerous, hazardous, and not very effective..against the large part of the world. I say this because my grandfather died from cleaning up the radiation in NM from the Manhattan project, of course many years later, it was horrible. I do admit, even the US was willing to sacrifice many lives to put a nuke out there...but given the NK technology and ineffectiveness, they are likely to blow themselves up before anyone else.
But lets just say this is about a sat....why would they not be allowed a satellite? Do they have to ask the US for global communication?? If so, do we say NO...because if we do, then yes we are suppressing them.
I 100% support the issue that money is being spent on crap instead of the people...but I dont know much about that place to be honest. Like I said in another post somewhere, I dont think I can handle knowing much more about the horrors of this planet..the knowledge just from learning about the ME gives me a heart problems (literally).
Worry more about North Korea than Iran.
There has been so much saber-rattling about Iran, that the biggest possible threat is going unnoticed. What is wrong with this picture? Shouldn't the international community be taking a lot more notice?
Really Alex? You want to let them fire off one nuke so we can obliterate them. So, how many people would you be willing to sacrifice so that we can strike back? Hmmm. 100,000? How about a million? Or maybe the entire city of NY? Isn't the point to PREVENT that from happening?
And roadlesstraveled - You live in a fairy tale world. Those in power in NK have shown they could not be responsible with such power and would use it to blackmale everything they could out of the rest of the world. Even China understands that.
What astounds me is the fact that the administration was unprepared for this event. But our foreign policy is so weak, we are reduced to just "give them a good talking to" with nothing to back it up. Kinda like our position with Iran. The senate passed a bill with 100% approval(that means everyone - Dems and Repubs) to increase sanctions on Iran....and what does our president do? He vetoes it. Really? So we have 100 senators in PERFECT agreement over what to do and Obama strikes it down. I suppose we'll just wag our finger and tell them we condemn their launch and they will get the picture. In reality THAT alone is our foreign policy.
And Night Hawk - EVERYONE thought there were WMDs in Iraq - even Dems. You are trying to rewrite history by placing all the blame on Bush. The FACT is that they HAD WMDs, they could not explain where they went or HOW they were "dismantled" and had no records of when it happened. The information that Bush had was given to Congress - exact same information, and the consensus was that Iraq STILL had the WMDs. So CONGRESS approved going there at his request of Bush. So, if you are going to place blame on sending troops to Iraq...you can blame congress - BOTH dems and Repubs. Of course you won't because you will believe what you want in SPITE of the facts.
You should watch the Nat Geo special that Lisa Ling did. Then you will understand why N. Korea is such a propaganda based country. They literally make their people believe their leaders are nothing short of gods. Its quite sad really, because no outside information is allowed that would distort such a ridiculous ideal.
Closing your eyes and pretending it does not exist is never a practical way to live. Ignorance is bliss, but ignorance is also dangerous. If you do not know why you believe what you believe, someone will make that decision for you. The world is a beautiful place, but the people that inhabit it are capable of horrendous atrocities, and ignoring that will never help anyone, including yourself.
Im sorry to hear about grandfather, but the price he paid paved the way for countless others to be saved. I imagine if he had to do it over again, he would not change a thing. Without those bombs, the death and destruction that was sure to follow with an invasion of Japan would have had an even more catastrophic effect than dropping the two bombs.
breadex, Night Hawk,
http://money.msn.com/investing/11-things-wrong-with-congress
GET AN EDUCATION breadex, Night Hawk
President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Justification Section 2 WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein (aka Regime Change), with US Congressional Appropriations. President Clinton's Failed Attempt as 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox, with the Islamic World condemning the US as the Great Satan.
President Clinton's US Law H.R.4655 was amended by US Senate to the US Military Use of Force to accomplish the President Clinton US Policy of the Overthrow of President Hussein.
Later President Clinton's US Law H.R.4655 became 2003 US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom. President Bush (43) accomplishes President Clinton's standing US Law H.R.4655, as the US Military Overthrow of President Hussein.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
When Night Hawk are you going to get an Education.
Again from firsthand experience with 2001 Operation Viking Hammer and 2002 Operation Hotel California, how about this Night Hawk you research the Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility at Sargat Iraq.
Uh, huh, Night Hawk TOO OBVIOUS BUYER'S REMORSE. You bought a Rotten Lemon (cannot even make Lemonade from), and now you are attempting to deflect blame for your failed individual choice(s). Most people read the Labels of things before they buy them or are you illiterate as the only acceptable excuse.
They already have Nuclear Weapons. And are now working on the Delivery Systems (Launch Platforms, aka Missiles) with the Technological Support of the Technological (aka "Scientific") Trade Agreement with the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran.
Get an Education, Creek Dog, and if you do not know why, even more so.
brenda1964,
Deterrence ONLY works if both sides agree that a Nuclear War is not survivable for both sides.
roadless,
North Korea "says" they wanted to put a satellite into orbit for weather and crop reasons however, they would not let us in to actually verify that there was a satellite on board. If indeed it is a sat, then why not let us in to prove it to us if they have nothing to hide?
Brenda's last two sentences sums it up....
"Really Alex? You want to let them fire off one nuke so we can obliterate them. So, how many people would you be willing to sacrifice so that we can strike back? Hmmm. 100,000? How about a million? Or maybe the entire city of NY? Isn't the point to PREVENT that from happening?"
Do I want to let them, obviously not, but at this point if they decided to do so, there would be little we could do to stop them. I believe consequence is the only deterrent we have left, and is the only thing keeping them in check. We have spent 2 decades trying everything else, and yet they still have nukes and continue to develop weapon systems to have the capability to deliver them around the globe.
If you think you live now, or ever will, in a world where these possibilities do not exist, you are living an impossible pipe dream.
Alex,
Check this out. It'll help you sleep a little better about your statement below....
Missile defense technology being developed, tested and deployed by the United States is designed to counter ballistic missiles of all ranges—short, medium, intermediate and long. Since ballistic missiles have different ranges, speeds, size and performance characteristics, the Ballistic Missile Defense System is an integrated, “layered” architecture that provides multiple opportunities to destroy missiles and their warheads before they can reach their targets. The system’s architecture includes:
Missile defense elements are operated by United States military personnel from U.S. Strategic Command, U.S. Northern Command, U.S. Pacific Command, U.S. Forces Japan, U.S. European Command and others. The United States has missile defense cooperative programs with a number of allies, including United Kingdom, Japan, Australia, Israel, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Czech Republic, Poland, Italy and many others. The Missile Defense Agency also actively participates in NATO activities to maximize opportunities to develop an integrated NATO ballistic missile defense capability.
N Korea might have a bunch of weapons lying around but they're more bark than bite. If they ever tried to launch some weapons, even at S Korea, they'd be met with some serious opposition and be taken out.
Alex - I believe the best "deterrent" is kill the program while it's still young. If they want to pursue it then they will have to start from over from scratch. But allowing them to create a nuclear weapon and then use retaliation as a means of consequences is far too risky. Ben Franklin said it best...an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
And no, I don't live in a world where I think these possibilities do not exist...but if I have to power to prevent 100,000 or a million deaths by being proactive instead of reactive, I think that the higher moral ground. I would find it hard for anyone to disagree with that logic anyway.
Creek Dog - as much as I am fascinated by our strides in technology as a preventative shield against missiles, I would sleep even better knowing their program has been decimated....rather than the missiles already in flight aimed at us. I'm all for missile defense technology, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather not have to use it if my life was depending on it working perfectly. I'm glad we have it...but let's hope we don't HAVE to use it.
As to why the US government invaded Iraq. Iraq was easy-pickins. Saddam was being cooperative and they couldn't fight back. It would appear that North Korea has learned the lesson well.
Now, people here are right in that North Korea can't start anything without pain. But they can create a standoff. They may well create a condition where the US would have to think twice before invading.
As for isolating their economy: That can only do so much. Sooner or later, they need to be able to grow their own food and build their own housing. It is foolish for any country to remain dependent on the rest of the world. International trade can have benefits. But one must never be dependent on it. Something the US should consider as well.
Chas- You do realize that NK already has nuclear weapons, don't you? There is no longer the possibility of causing them to "start from scratch."
Creek Dog- I am well aware of our missile defense capabilities, but thank you. I was talking more along the lines of an ally like S. Korea. N Korea hopes of sending a missile here will ever only be just that.
Get an Education, Creek Dog, and if you do not know why, even more so. Corrected as below, President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordered US Defense Budget Cuts:
US left with US Army THAADS, USN Ageis. Hint: Intercepts Over the Intended Target (Nation) is considered as Short Range.
As far as the other things; GET AN EDUCATION Creek Dog, copying and pasting crap is still crap. You want to learn about ABMs start with the project at Utah, then read all the other crap the US gave away (scraped) since the ABM Treaty.
Perhaps if we would have sat at the table years ago and signed a peace agreement, with mutual guarantees of not invasion and removed most or all of our troops from S. Korea, the North wouldn't be paranoid about we attacking them and wouldn't have developed nuclear weapons and a very large army.
If there were 40,000 Chinese or Russian troops stationed in Mexico or Canada, I think we would be a little paranoid too. Why is that our troops are in so many nations to protect, but if there are other countries troops somewhere else they are there to attack? I remember the Missile Crisis of 1962, the Soviet missiles were a threat, but our missiles in Turkey were not, give me a break.
Obamma will do nothing as usual. They are our friends you know. He might hava a beer summit. That will fix it.
The North Korean Negotiators are a Hell of a lot Smarter than ours and will wring every Damned Concession they can out of the U.S.. They will get food for their Army, fuel for their Military, Technology for their Nuclear Reactors, and a whole lot more, and we will get Zip, Nada, Zero, Nothing, from them. Just like last time we Negotiated with them.
After what Japan did in Korea they should be concerned,downright scared.
David,
Although we all have our opinions (just as we all have @!$%#s) Let me ask you a question;
Does it make you feel like "Big Man on Campus" to put somebody down as you did? Feel better now? Do you feel as though anyone reading your post is like, "Wow" david is a really smart and tough guy?! Heh heh.
Anytime I see people comment and trying to put somebody down without simply saying something like "Sorry, but I think it's more like blah blah," It's obviously they either have an anger issue or are geeky and been pushed around in their lives and the only way to make themselves feel better is to cyber bully since if you were face to face with me, you'd look as though someone yanked the rug out from under you within .5 seconds.
You may want to get an education on the reality of life before you get your tit in a ringer dude.
I don't know where you've been in your life or what you've done, but where I've been and what I've done proves to me that you don't know what's going on in our military today. You don't know what you're talking about brotha.....
Believe nothing of what you hear, and only 1/2 of what you see. Not even the fact that you voted for yourself for 1 point but it's a start...
Have a nice day...
CD
After what Japan did in Korea they should be concerned,downright scared.
No statue of limitations? Viet Nam is doing business with us at a brisk pace and that was HALF as long ago!
we just sit back and do nothing just like 9-1-1 . we wait until some of our enemies blow up some part of america. maybe then we might do something like little george did after we we're hit uhh huh. like jap and pearl harbor. as far as ir^$n,i&%%$q, and north k*($a its time to enola gay and drop it k_&*(*$#^m.too bad we dont have FDR to save america now.
@texastornado55:
Look... just because that's what happened with
9/11
the Gulf of Tonkin
Pearl Harbor
Columbus, New Mexico
the USS Maine
and the Alamo
...is NO REASON to assume it'll happen again. :-\
Guess this administration is JUST going to get RATTLED when Iran reveals it has test fired a Nuclear warhead after a high ranking senior White House official announced anonymously that they have years to go to get enough nuclear material.
Wait a minute....this administration is more likely to take out homeowners who threaten water supplies near streams.
As long as NK has China covering their back the U.S. (lead by republican or democrat doesn't matter)is not going to do anything even remotely pre-emptive so you all can quit with the sabre rattling. A war with NK will kill more innocents than military. The Military and the people of NK aren't the problem. The problem is that their leadership has taken on the reigns of demi-gods to the NK people, who have been brainwashed, starved and sacrificed for the benefit of the state for generations.
NK is already in a state of war with SK and you can be certain that the border will be over run with their million plus man army, resulting in the deaths of the SK and American troops stationed there. They would have to respond to any attack on NK thus, since a living god can't be proved weak or wrong, therefore the heads of power must strike back. The deaths of hundreds of thousands SK citizens would follow shortly.
Nothing is going to happen until the day comes that China has turned it's back on NK and in being isolated ,NK becomes weaker and more dangerous. The heads of state might decide that there's nothing to lose. So they fire one off at us and the consequences be damned.
I wish we could send some of you neanderthals to North Korea. You war-mongers make me sick. If you are scared of North Korea then you need to snap out of it and realize that they aren't going to do a damn thing to us. Don't give into the fear. It's mostly there to sell advertising, make news where there's none and gain ratings.
China could stop this North Korean behavior and military expansion immediately. But why would they? It suits them to have us rattled and to have us direct our attention on N. Korea instead of on them. After all, China is not at all happy with our interference in “their” area e.g. South China Sea.
Excuse me, but are you aware that we're still at war with North Korea, and do not recognise them diplomatically?
As for the rest of your sentiment, I've seen it before. Like when we left Afghanistan alone after the Soviets withdrew. Or when we left Korea alone the first time (after WW2). Or when we left Germany alone when the allies withdrew (WW1). Or when we left Haiti alone (4 times now). It's not as good a solution as you might think.
Night Hawk said it perfectly. Everyone of the Obama haters here won't acknowledge that bit of fact.
And the President said, ?. I'm in way over my head!
Mark:
Since you say that we are at war with North Korea (although I can't find any official declaration of war) why would they honor our request to stay helpless so that the US could just move in at any time?
I don't need to support North Korea's general behavior (I don't support it.) I don't need to think the leader is a nice guy (he's not.) All I need to do is recognize that if China were stationing troops in Mexico, the US would be ramping up its nuke program.
Pvblivs:
While the US has only declared war 5 times in over 200 years, this one is covered under United Nations Security Council Resolution 82, which passed 9-0. As the North has never seen fit to sign a peace treaty, we are still at war.
Helpless? You call a million man army vs. our 28,500 helpless? Let me ask you this: suppose NK builds a capable nuclear missile. Suppose they build 20, or 200. (I think that's a stretch, even France and the UK only keep 200-300 each). What good does it do them? They can't nuke anyone WITH nukes without getting nuked themselves, and they can't threaten non-nuclear states (Japan, SK) because of the US.
Let's go a step further: why should the US keep feeding their people if they want to build nukes and feed their army instead of feeding their people?
If they want proof they won't be nuked first, they have 58 years' worth so far. Oh, and the fact that Truman did NOT let McArthur use nukes when things were really bad in 1950/51.
I don't see your point. NK invaded SK. The UN goes in and pushes NK back to the old borders after 3 years of horrible combat. The US (as a part of the UN, and by the request of the South Korean government) keeps 28,500 troops there today, an all-time low. For every US serviceman there are 35 North Koreans under arms.
Now, if China were to send troops to Mexico because the US has invaded it for the first time in almost 100 years, then I'd say you have a point.
Why is the U.S. has all the scientific knowledge and ability, didn't they surreptitously destroy the missile?
Give the North Koreans something to think about, even if they were able to find out it was shot down?
Not sure where you get your information from, but We are not friends with North Korea, we are with South Korea, but not North. Oh and please explain what you would do in President Obama's stead. We already have a bad rep for interfering in other Countries affairs so just what would you do? Standard Republican response is go in guns blazing and kill anything that moves. President Obama is trying diplomacy by sanctions that are actually hurting the Country.
I smile when I read that some people are predicting kju,s actions. Don't you realize that these people are jokes. I guess you don't remember chou en-lai? He made fools of many much smarter presidents than we have now, kju may do the same. They would not be called inscrutable, if we could figure them out! If we ever had anyone, general mccarthur was it.
Obama picked Kerry Obama also made remarks Missile Defense does not work. Please explain why now Obama is deploying this defense system around the world? http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/kerry-86-missile-defense-system-cancer-our-nation-s-defense
Obama needs to flat out scold north korea with a stern look like he had to with iran! This is the only way these rogue countries will fall in line!
No need... we are totally safe with Ronald Raygun's old star wars missile defense system, which cloaked us with a nuclear shield umbrella... right?
Ok you got your anti Obama post in for the day go get you milk and cookies.
It seems we are at junction and it is strange that we think of Iran as rational - Both Iran and NK are as irrational as any of history's despotic leaders! Neither needs to have nukes because they both act on a whim. Keep up the sanctions on both!
The DPRK even going into launch mode of a nuclear weapon will mean their destruction. Using a nuclear weapon would be the suicide of NK. They know that we know that.
The nuclear capability is far more valuable being unused than used. NK has got away with "alleged" sinking of a SK sub. They have got away with bombing Islands off SK. The responses from the U.S and N.K were very muted comparibly, we all know why. The leverage of just posessing nuclear arms is incredible. This is why we must stop Iran from having nuclear arms , as they would follow suit the same as NK, and use it for brinksmanship to their advantage and the disadvantage of the world.
We need a solution to these problems without thousands or possibly millions getting killed. My hope is for a coup in the DPRK. The seeds for this have already been laid. This will be a bloody day in the DPRK.
The U.S and S.K sorry.
Stern look with no backbone to it...yea that should work......ROFLMAO....
For the past four years we have been sitting on our hands watching this rouge nation attempt to achive what they have. What are we going to do the next four years? I hate rice.
I also take this position. More likely to happen
Uh, huh, breadex TOO OBVIOUS BUYER'S REMORSE. You bought a Rotten Lemon (cannot even make Lemonade from), and now you are attempting to deflect blame for your failed individual choice(s). Most people read the Labels of things before they buy them or are you illiterate as the only acceptable excuse.
Typical Uneducated where do you think most of the current technology (funding) started from.
David
A lib has no conscious. That's obvious or Obama would not have been re elected after his first four years of absolute failure.
conservatives have business for their own families only (small government you call it). everybody who cant own their own business instead of big corporations who attempt to epmploy lots of people for the betterment of america.libs you call them. the conservatives dont care about the majority of americans only their rich 1% the rest of us can go yo H$*$&*(%&*%(LL.
We need to send a message to that little inbred running the show over there. Hell, they can't even feed their own people, but they can sure get missiles up in the air on occasion. China will crush them like the cockroach they are if it came down to it.
Greg S - So by bluffing the Russians and making them cry uncle was useless? Dumbass!
Greg_S Remember that the missile defense system proposal broke the back of old Soviet Russia and exposed how weak and desperately poor Russia was. It also freed many captive countries.
Ronald Regan was the only president that pushed back the doomsday clock. Now the pressure is on to stop the population bomb.
All in all Ronald Reagan didn't do bad with an all democratic congress.
Obama couldn't do anything with his two years with his all democratic congress.
Obama picked Kerry Obama also made remarks Missile Defense does not work. Please explain why now Obama is deploying this defense system around the world? http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/kerry-86-missile-defense-system-cancer-our-nation-s-defense
sounds like a job for
"SUPER SEAL TEAM" quietly go in and take the idiot boy out of power, no need for war just a simple "covert operation"
In a country as paranoid and crazy as North Korea,they would'nt have to look very far for a replacement.
While that may Sound like a good idea, you must remember that this is the Information Age. Even when we took down Bin Laden the whole WORLD "watched it" in live time on Twitter. "Covert Operations" aren't "covert" the way they used to be. No country seems able to do anything anonymously any more. Everybody around the world has a camera in their phone for both pictures and video. Everybody has internet access, except Syria(did they get it back last week?). Spec Ops can't operate the way they used to in the shadows.
Not so "live" when it came to Benghazi...media makes up the rules who gets what information...like the poor reporter who got his a$$ kicked by union folks...where's that news "live"?
Correct to:
I still think that nuclear weapons are too destructive for any country to have. Drop one and the effect will be felt by generations to come. It is an unnecessary means to achieve an end. Ban them all.
And when we disarm and other countries like NK, Iran,Pakistan, Russia, or non-state actors like Hezbollah or Al Qaida decide they don't want to adhere to your "ban" then what?
Yeah, and I imagine you also believe that the war on drugs is working. Tell people they cant have something, and they will find a way to get it regardless. Short of invasion, there is not a strong enough deterrent, obviously.
And when we disarm and other countries like NK, Iran,Pakistan, Russia, or non-state actors like Hezbollah or Al Qaida decide they don't want to adhere to your "ban" then what?
KingK - I'll give you a hint. It doesn't MATTER what anyone does or doesn't do. Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda (and others) will not stop until every Jew is dead and the US has become a third world country...or worse. There is no policy that can be adopted that will take the desire to kill every Jew or ruin the US from the heart of Muslims. They have spoken freely about it and have made no bones about going through with it. It's part of their doctrine and it's there for all to see. Our problem is the stupidity of trying to reason and negotiate with people who have proven to be unreasonable. They do not hide their agenda; it's there for all to see and read. What don't you people understand about that? I'm no war monger, but when you are dealing with people who want nothing but the total annihilation of a race and nation what is left to do? You answer.
Chas01c,
This is what I would be more worried about (President Obama's April 2009 Policy of "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders"):
History Channel, 2009, Day After Disaster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCme_K6MYLY
Previous Tom Clancy, 1991 Book, The Sum of All Fears.
By the way you should not talk bad about President Obama's Allies as the "Libyan Rebels aka President Obama's Libyan People" of Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), etc.;
the "Syrian Rebels and Freedom Fighters aka President Obama's Syrian People" of Al Quada Iraq (AQI), Kurdistanis (PKK, HPG, KGK), etc.;
the "Egyptian People" of the Muslim Brotherhood;
the "Palestinians aka President Obama's Palestinian People" as the Hamas Warlords and Hamas Foreign Fighters, Army of Islam Gaza, etc.;
the "Citizens of Yemen" as the Al Quada Yemen (AQY);
as previously Trained, Armed and Funded by the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's Special Forces, Quds.
For years and years all NK wanted was to make their devided country a whole and Communist State. Since the fall of Communism I'm not sure what NK wants. If they still want to make Korea whole, this is not the direction to be moving in.
Ask yourself- how come North Korea all of a sudden was capable of launching the Unha rocket? North Korea has experts from Iran (they have been very successful with their mid-range and long-range missiles -their plutonium enrichments- their copying of drones-minisubs. They have been helping North Korea's one leader to snub his nose to China- to Russia-to the World. Now there is a new element- subterfuge in concealing their rocket launch while the rest of the world was slumbering. South Korea is truly in harm's way. If North Korea's new leader executed in plain sight the upper echelon of his contry's military without blinking an eyelash- what do you think -he would have constrains in attacking others with his deadly arsenal? Reminds one of Nero or The Mad Sultan in Ottoman Empire. Who celebrated with North Koreans of the successful launch- Iran;s Revolutionary Guards Corps who have been advising and collaborating.
North Korea will nuke Japan first before they nuke anyone. North Korea will never nuke South Korea. If you do not understand this, go to your history books.
MarsRover,I see that you have been studying history,there are a lot of people in south Korea that would like to nuke Japan also, because when Japan invaded Korea,three times in about ten or fifteen years,and enslaved the men and made prostitutes of the women and destroyed the country it was one Korea then,
News outlets need to stop with the sensationalist headlines.
We have not, nor have we ever been, "rattled" or "shaken" by the pygmies in North Korea.
The minute the pygmies attach even one warhead to a rocket and fire it, we will 1.) shoot their rocket(s) down and 2.) turn their little island into a glowing wasteland, like we should have done long ago.
Of course, I suggest the South Koreans get their travel visa's for one-way trips to China filled out before then, because there 's no real way to only nuke half an island.
Hey boss, whats with the racial rhetoric? Like it or not, those "pygmies" are 99.9% just like you. Disagree of course, but placing yourself above anyone based on race is, well, pathetic. Nice pic by the way; tough.
The "pygmies" I speak of are Kim Jong Il ( remember the little pygmy Elvis impersonator? ) and now his son.
right....the South Koreans will want to go and live in China. Great Plan. I'm glad you've got it all figured out.
yeah.....sarcasm.
It seems odd to me that the US trys to tell everyone what they can/cant have. Especially when we are the only ones to ever nuke anyone
And your lack of understanding is "odd" to most everyone else.
J Gato Correct...and the pig phucker usa nuked those civilians not once but TWICE
@usasucs: Yes, that's what happens when you decide to not surrender when asked. And the US took pains to not destroy Japanese cultural treasures and hit smaller cities deliberately to minimize the damage. Further, had the US had to invade Japan like Europe, there would have been a million more US and several million more Japanese dead. Assuming we didn't just nuke Tokyo.
...so, remember the context. The US is the only country to use nukes so far, but it will again IF the circumstances warrent it. Want proof? The Inchon Landing, The Berlin Airlift, The Bay of Pigs, Operation Rolling Thunder, Guld War 1 and even 9/11: none of these (or dozens of other incidents) have ever caused another nuke to be dropped. Can we say that the North Koreans and Iranians will act with similar restraint, given that they keep calling for the elimination of other countries? I'd say no.
As a rule we negotiate with countries that have nuclear capability and it won't be long that we will do the sae thing with North Korea! Lately we are only capable of attacking small defenseless nations of the Balkans and the Middle East. Iran is on a cusp of having their own nuclear program . The biggest threat to world harmony and peace is the United States and its puppet NATO nations. So if you want to survive you have better get your nukes at all costs and not limited to total starvation.
Leave then.
OK Drago answer me this. If the US is the biggest threat to world peace and harmony, then why are we constantly asked to come to the rescue all the time?
And the use of "we" in your comments is very suspicious. You speak as an outsider. I could be wrong, but it looks as if you gave it away by using "you" later in your comment.
Busted!
The U.S. is a corrupt country.....it's people ...trash.
Come call me trash to my face douchebag.
THEN Get out or stay out whatever the case may be......don't need idiots like you around anyway....probably some middle eastern nut case .....
Come on Bob, don't fall for a a belligerent teenager on his mother's computer. No sense following ignorance with racism.
Not racism.....just call it like I see it.....
And how could you possibly know that the person is middle eastern, and why is that the first group you reference over all others? Seems like a predisposition for racial prejudice to me. It is racism, a watered down version of it, but racism nonetheless.
Alex - I'd say he was making an inference. Statistically, he's probably right, but no way of knowing for sure so go with what's most likely. Of those who hate the US, the Middle East is at the top of the list with the US media a close second.
Hey, it's just a little humor thrown in there, don't get so uppity. The US media is probably third anyway.
I would say his "inference", while statically highly probable, still singles out a particular race with no real evidence to support it. So again, by its definition, his comment was racist.
Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.
Well BOB, if I can"call it as I see it"...I would assume you live in a trailer, watch Nascar, drive a pickup, have a 6th grade education, come from an inbred family, and rock a mullet. Not as nice to assume when its you now huh?
I have two goats please! Trade for your??
Is it the country are the people that run the country?
Oh and Bob people have the right to say what they want, but you are right if it is so bad over here then why don't they leave.
I love all the right-wingers and Obama haters, who say "Obama better do something other than sanctions". What? Invade? Start another war, bigger than the Iraq mess? Seems like that is always the answer from the right wing. "We gotta do something! Lets bomb them into submission". Great answer. Ha.
I can see North Korea's young leader being pressured by the old staunch military guard to position missiles at the United States and Japan. It will be critical to show the world how powerful North Korea is. Especially with such a young ruler.
Just as the Russian philosophy used to be flex ones muscles through demonstrations of the force of ones power on certain sectors in the population, so too, I can see North Korea being willing to strike out. Possibly at South Korea.Then a pathetic little...oops! Our missile was a test that went wrong folks!Really! As it points some at China boldy.
After all, the Korean Conflict has never ended officially.We are still in a state of war technically with a military presence and neutral zone. If they were to bomb that country, who would be willing to go there, with all the radiation fall out? If North Korea also happened to have nuclear weapons aimed at the U.S., what would our response be, would we risk an attack? China also has missiles aimed at us.
Then throw in the Middle East. Should things get dicey there, can we afford to have two wars on the East and West sides of the world?Wouldn't that be the ultimate nightmare. The more countries that get nuclear weapons, the more the terrifying ramifications might be. And when you add in allies taking sides, oh boy could things get ugly fast.
"Rattled"? Really? I doubt it. What a dumb word choice. Anyone with half a brain knows they have been working on this stuff for decades. And yes, we all know they just launched a piece of junk into space to really test an ICBM.
Carter sealed their ability to do that when he went over there in the early 90's, assured them of food and fuel, got a worthless piece of paper saying they would not pursue this sort of thing, and came back and said it was all taken care of.
That's exactly when we all knew the NK's put the petal to the floor as far as going on a quest for this sort of thing.
The US rattled? Clinton was in N Korea numerous times and she and Obama stated that there is no threat and the Country is cooperating. Either both lied to us or they're both so incompetent they put us in danger.
Or a more likely possibility, both.
Of course they are no threat...and neither is Al-Qaeda, they are "on their heels" and no longer a threat to the US......oh wait...
Well, at least there is Iran and they are no threat because they have stopped their....oh wait...
more propaganda from washinton.
if were going to overthow any government, it should be our own
Ore own government has been a treat since the Clinton admin, hasn’t slowed down since
Oh, goodie - a little more hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth by our current regime - now THAT'LL scare those Koreans.....
The narrative elements in this NBC story by R. Windrem, are idealistic in hope but lack insight on the downside harm enforced by the North Korean dictatorial elite on its own defenceless people.
Like its ideological clonal source, a track record is described in the habitual oppression by the Bolshevik/USSR ruling elite over its own people [ eg documented by the British historian Simon Sebag Montefiore in his book "Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar" 2003/2004 ]. Gulags and the Magadan slave gold mine in Siberia north of North Korea testify to the absence of human rights, on a grand scale, let alone the civil values described in the CONSTITUTION of the U.S. of A. promoted by Thomas Jefferson and other leaders.
Co-operation from the Chinese leadership with US diplomacy powers, is a rational pathway to avert irrational solutions. The ideas by Nuland [eg the quoted paragraph below ] ignore gulag history, and the dominant influence of China over North Korea.
"Speaking of the North’s 27-year-old leader Kim Jong Un, Nuland said: "He can plot a way forward that ends the isolation, that brings relief and a different way of life and progress to his people, or he can further isolate them with steps like this. He can spend his time and his money shooting off missiles, or he can feed his people, but he can't have both."
as reported by Robert Windrem from NBC News.
The U.S., and I would suspect, the countries in the region like South Korea and Japan, have the capability to determine the trajectory of these launches within seconds. So it would depend on who has the balls to send up an interceptor to knock down any errant NK launches.
A strong statement and show of force needs to be made, and soon, to discourage NK...and Iran, from doing something stupid. But like I said it will take balls and courage, something Obama has not shown to this point.
Dont worry, Obama will do something after one lands on the west coast.
MX6X3---you're right---Obama would probably apologize to NK for not sending them food!
Listen these scare tactics by are goverment is bs. We have nothing to fear from NK, we have nuclear subs off their coast that will destroy their country before the missle are airborn.
What other threat is there to N. Korea? China? We saw how N.Korea snubbed their noses at them. The U.N. ? All sanctions, no bite. S.Korea? Well the U.S. has their back. Russia? Not concerned with N.Korea. Japan? Not likely. Philippines? Taiwan? Vietnam? Not even in the same sentence. So N.Korea fears no one. All sanctions have done, is hurt the people. Their economy continues, but the world knows what N.Korea spends it's money on. So N.Korea has advanced it's program have they? How? From what other country, have they received help from? China? Pakistan? Iran? All three? Probably. So no nuclear deterrent to N.Korea except China and the US. Any launch, at any country by N.Korea, will be their last. They know it. So does the rest of the world. Should S.Korea have nuclear armed missiles aimed at N.Korea? That might change things, but it could be worse too. Japan? All the other countries around N.Korea. Hey we all have nuclear missiles now. BFD N. Korea. Still living in the cold war doctrine. Not of the 21st century. Military dictatorship is how they roll. Some say cut off the head, and the body will die. Not for N. Korea. Changing of the guard means nothing to them. Continued policy as before. N.Korea is paranoid of everything and everyone. Their country can not function without their ever present military controlled cold war fear. It's still 1950 to them. Time capsule. End the truce. Declare a peace. U.N.? It's a start. 60 years and it's still a truce? Get the peace settled or lets get back to fighting. Everyone except N.Korea wants that. Their thought is let's keep fighting. It's not over for them. It will never be. Ever. That's how they roll. No nation today fears a nuclear weapon dropped on it's population. Why? No one of today has experienced it. Japan is the only nation. N.Korea could learn from Japan. The first strike by any nation today, will result in a retaliatory strike from a nation with that kind of power, should put the fear in to all of us. Not N.Korea. Still in the 1950 mindset.
We're rattled by North Korea achieving a technology that we can buy at the local hobby shop??
https://www.google.com/search?q=multi+stage+model+rocket+kits&hl=en&tbo=u&biw=1280&bih=577&source=univ&tbm=shop&sa=X&ei=ndTJUMSND5KJ2AXY-oHoAg&ved=0CFcQsxg
Putting a satellite into space, albeit a rudimentary one, is far from "hobby shop". Let's just keep underestimating them...that's what they are counting on. Let's do nothing until we have another Iran on our hands.....great idea. I'm a Monroe Doctrine kinda guy, but sitting around pointing our finger and "scolding" as someone has suggested, is getting us nothing but trouble in the future. These rogue nations that openly admit hatred for the US and all other "western" countries are going to do what they want regardless of our "strong rhetoric" because our current administration is incompetent. Of late it has been shown and proven that these people will lie to protect their political hopes even if it means people die. Not the kind of Statesmen and women we need to lead our country. Honestly, I don't know if they actually exist any more. I think Reagan may have been the last.
I get mine from the local army surplus!
We can believe the world ends in a few days OR we can believe a threat is real...either case....MSN will not cover this story in a few days and WE will forget what we wrote about here because some "other" more important story will be used for subtrefuge...i.e. what ever happened to the US drone Iran has of ours? Did our potus wave his little girl hand and get it back?....nope...while we look for leader in chief to grow some, it appears he's going to have a worst set of circumstances than Bush....but no worries...he can continue to blame Bush...Obama's compaining is not a plan, it's his agenda....this is a complete success of Obama, as he intends to destroy our country from within....that's why he "MAY" not care what goes on from the outside....my opinion
China and it's allies will become the worlds strongest economies and militaries. Due to the ball less regime in the white house! Oh well, that's what this country voted for.
The land of tattoos, nose rings, tongue rings, gangstas, vulgar rap, greedy bankers, spoiled suburban kids, idol & celebrity worshipers, abortions, narcotics, crime infested cities, daily shootings, etc. welcomes North Korea. The wishmasters in the land of the decadent wish the north koreans to put down the missles and give in to our devilish ways.
I don't see that anybobdy on this forum has any real solutions to the North Korea problem. Frankly I don't see a first strike as an option. It doubt it would be clean blow. Wars are messy and costly and right now we can not afford a costly war. Plus the risk to our allies South Korea & Japan would be great.
I say don't negociate with them. They cannot be trusted.
a soultion should be....maybe...just a thought here....our POTUS?...anyone?...POTUS should take the reigns here?...
Why do we have to come up with a solution? Isn't that what we pay the President and all his minions, all the way down to Congress and Senate, for? If all they need to do for their checks to give interviews, go on talk shows and vacations, we could have found much prettier people for that!
John-1944141,most of the bodies on this forum could not find North Korea on a map if it was written in.
Think about this; The Obama Administration doesn't have the guts to call a Soldier who shoots other Soldiers after yelling "Allahu Akbar" a terrorist attack. Then goes on the Sunday morning News shows and lies to everyone telling us that the Embassy in Libya was attacked because of a YouTube video.
They are not rattled.
You have been infiltrated.
So what would you Obama haters have him do pray tell? Maybe cave in and cut taxes on the top 2% or just eliminate taxes altogether? Then we could invade North Korea, since that worked so well in the 1950's when we didn't even invade them. When that doesn't work, just lob a few nukes over there... as I'm sure China or Russia won't mind or back them up. Our economy is strong enough to sustain another war or two... you guys are just brilliant in your assessment of blame against the President of our nation. Maybe if he would just bleach his skin, ya know... like Michael Jackson, you could get past your hatred and see that having a level-headed Prez ain't such a bad thing to have.
The POTUS is the leader....just wished he'd come out and show it once in awhile....he can stop campainging....we are all settling in he's the leader again....give him a chance...you won't be dissapointed in his accumulation of failures....
BUT PRober....perhaps you make enough money were you can be sustained but the country is hurting right now and you think our economy can afford another war or two....should we start with putting you on the front line? All people are racist to some degree....I'm a wetback (born and raised in the US)and not crying over it....
Alex, I totally disagree that "all people are racists" to any degree. And you aren't a "wetback" as you apparently don't even know what that term means, if you were born and raised here. Most of all, you don't recognize sarcasm whenever you read it. Reread my post... maybe you'll get it the second time around, but I kinda doubt it. Lack of education has nothing to do with race. But you might look up the definition of "sarcasm". You don't even need a dictionary, just google "definition of sarcasm". Have a great day my fellow American!
I am of Mexican desent (aka Chicano etc) ...so don't lecture on things because you read in a book. You haven't lived through or in a barrio or been a gang.
I have been called a wetback but I am not crying about it....goes with the territory when you live in an all white neighborhood. If you been sheltered from this...good for you...your parents probaly didn't have to endure racist coments as my parents did...I would pit my education against yours any day of the week. As far as scarcasim goes, you're missing the point...but that's ok..I'm not here to argue, just voice an opinion...as you are...
Thanks for the fellow American comment...
Prober...do you not prefer your own race?
no Greyfox... in fact I prefer people with empathy for others