Ummm... Gun show... LOL

In the name of sane gun laws I'm willing to throw this guy under the bus and see some teeth in the law that says felons can't have guns. Start following the existing law and put him away until global cooling starts. Maybe he'll tell his friends.

Pretty simple, money talks, BS walks. If you have enough money, someone will sell you what you want to buy. No law or laws going to stop supply and demand, just look at the war on drugs.

So glad the President closed the loop hole and everyone has to get background checks now as I understand it. If I'm wrong, and I hope I'm not, then Reid better get with it and do away with assault rifles, high capacity magazines, the loop hole and the blue laws keeping the ATF from doing their jobs.

In a country where there are so many legal weapons, getting one illegally should not be difficult.

Aren't 100,000s of killing machines, er, I mean guns, stolen every year?

And this will be the same result closing the "loopholes". Felons will just find another way around any new mandate. People that want them will get them illegally again while law abiding citizen go through hell for nothing......

in california ALL gun shows run background checks to purchase weapons ! know there is a loop hole for old rifles made before 1890 that can be purchased as a display (wall hanger) without a check...

This guy owns a sporting gods store, so I am sure he knows many other sporting goods store owners. Since many sporting goods stores also sell weapons, he probably had one of his fellow store owners who he is friends with buy the weapons and then sell them to him as a private sale. This is, unfortunately, a fairly routine thing that happens to get around the background checks and waiting periods. The store owner sells the gun to himself and then does a private transaction selling the weapon to someone who should not have it. The store owners that do this do it because all they care about is the money from the sale, not whose hands they are putting weapons in. While I do not support a lot of Obama's proposal, the one to require background checks on private sales would put a stop to this practice. Unfortunately, stopping this practice will only lead to people who should not have guns finding other ways to get them. I do not think it will stop anyone who really wants to get their hands on a weapon.

I think by" sports " they mean football and not hunting.

And where do you think the black market gets guns? They don't have to go far. Right next door is a state with lax gun laws or a gun show or some other NRA protected loophole. These guys go to the same place everyone else does or steal them from a "responsible" gun owner or have someone buy them for them. President Obama's executive memos won't solve the problem but they are a start. It's easy availability of firearms, gun manufacturers' greed and the gun lobby's rabid refusal to accept even a reasonable compromise that has led to incidents like Newtown, the murder rate in Chicago and this psycho having an arsenal.

This guy is the type of people Obama needs to be going after and leave us law abidding gun owners alone.

The law enforcement officials said the case appears to illustrate some of the gaps in current background checks for gun purchasers that President Barack Obama has proposed – though authorities don’t yet know how he acquired them.

Another idiot write up from MSNBS....so which is it??? HUH?? Good Grief.

Witchking. The problem here is the NRA lobby puts these loop holes in these laws so the masters the gun makers and sell more guns. The gun show loop hole was given to us by the NRA. Along with all the other loop holes in out gun laws. The NRA could care less if a person is a felon or mentally Ill, If you have the cash, you got the gun. Got to protect peoples 2nd amendment rights, felons mentally Ill included. You got to have a gun. The NRA is done they just don't know it yet. They will cry foul to there millions and tell the the Government is going to take there guns away and the stupid little people will give the NRA all there money. Why don't you people let the Gun makers pay the bill for this fight. All your doing is helping them keep there profits. Just like the rich. Get the working people pay for your fight. What fools.

All the so called gun laws do is punish the law abiding citizen

I don't see how you can have it both ways. How can you have so many legal guns and not have guns fall into the wrong hands? When you have so many guns, and America has so many guns, bad guys are gonna get them easily.

I have an idea, let's discuss the following...Pretend that you are writing the constitution of a new country. You want people to have guns, but you also want a way to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

How do you write the law so that only responsible people get and keep guns, and you can find out if a bad guy has a gun. (And, yes, I will be VERY surprised if your law begins with "A well regulated Militia".)

Go ahead, discuss.

How did he get the guns? Pretty simple, illegally. Doesn't matter what the laws are, these kinds of guys aren't going to obey them.

The "gun show loophole" is more myth than fact. It does exist as far as private sales are concerned, but the reality is at all the shows I've been to, these collectors rarely sell anything. Their sales are nowhere near the BS 40% claim. I'd be surprised if they are 4%. And even of those there is no way to know if they all weren't made to people who could pass a background check. I know guys, completely legit who can pass background checks and who even hold permits, but they buy this way because they don't believe the background check records are destroyed like they are supposed to be. They see it as a quasi-registration.

I doubt that convicted felons hang out at these shows very much because they are crawling with cops. Most of these have video surveillance too. If he gets caught buying one, he's going right to jail. More than likely he gets some other criminal without a serious record to buy for him or simply buys from the stolen market. Millions of stolen guns circulating out there. The thing is, I don't care how illegal you make his purchase, he's still going to be able to buy what he wants.

Frankly, one law we ought to have is any thief who steals a gun ought to get an automatic 30 years. Typically these guys get charged like it's a piece of jewelry or whatever. If stealing a gun got you 30 years automatic, a lot of these thieves would leave the guns.

Seems just a bit odd that this guy somehow managed to own a business. You have to wonder if this wasn't a front for someone else. May not even be "his" guns. Maybe stored for somebody in his "club". I kind of find it hard to believe that this guy is a lone wolf of sorts. I'd guess he has some strong ties with like minded people in the area. Seems to me that there is a strong neo-Nazi, white supremacist movement in prisons. These guys probably take care of their buddies when they get out. I think these guys are like the mafia, they have branches of their organizations both inside and outside or prison.

So why have all the gun shows if no guns are sold ? It costs money to have a booth in a gun show are saying these "collectors " are just there to show off their collection

Andy, not everyone has that kind of money to purchase an illicit AR-15, and effective laws that operate before 26 innocents are dead not after will raise the price still higher.

One good place to start would be to ban ammunition sales in non-sporting calibers like .223. Existing stocks will dry up and eventually these assault weapons will be nothing but expensive, unsuitable clubs.

Law abiding gun owners argue there should be no laws, then it's easier to be law abiding. Criminals don't obey laws so why should we have them. Laws limiting gun ownership just punish the law abiding gun owners. Is it just me or do these statements make no sense at all. I find it difficult to imagine the stupidity it takes to think that this is a valid argument against making any guns illegal. If the NRA had its way, nothing this guy has done would be illegal. Except of course killing somebody, now that's bad. Let him keep the guns and tell him not to do it again.

Nungman Every caliber of ammunition has at one time or another been a military round. Civilian sales of excess military weapons have been part of our culture since the revolutionary war.

Doesn't matter what the laws are, these kinds of guys aren't going to obey them.

That's not the point. The point is that they are easy to get. Bad guys aren't getting machine guns. Bad guys aren't getting dynamite. We have awesome laws that control machine guns and dynamite. A bad guy with a machine gun would be bad news. A bad guy with dynamite would be bad news.

Bad guys get what is easy to get.

We need to see which guns are cause the most damage when they fall into the hands of bad guys. And we need to put those kinds of guns under the same kind of controls that we use for machine guns and dynamite.

I'm talking about hand guns.

To those claiming those guns came from the "black market", who do you think you are fooling? They could of just as easily been bought from private sellers or gun shows. As for the ammo, anybody can buy that online, ANYBODY...

The status quo has gotta go....

How did he get the guns? Pretty simple, illegally. Doesn't matter what the laws are, these kinds of guys aren't going to obey them.

That NRA argument has dried up and been blown away with the wind. He could have easily obtained them at gun shows or from private collectors.

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

It's pretty simple really.... claiming that criminals obtain guns illegally is asinine. I'm sure some do, but the laws are pretty lax for private gun sales..... The NRA used to promote sensible gun laws and owner responsibility before they became paid spokespeople for gun manufacturers...

interested observer

Another upstanding NRA member bites the dust. Gee - I wonder where he 'stole' the guns from. The president of the NRA just stated that criminals all get their guns from stealing them - not buying them.

I guess this shows that the NRA is lying again (or still).

You have no idea if he is a member of the NRA.

You have no idea how the weapons were acquired.

How exactly did the NRA lie?

If there were fines for making stupid comments, you'd likely be in debt for life.

No doubt about it, meanold, gun control is bad for business. That is what all the obstruction by the gun lobby comes down to.

Why should civilians like Nancy Lanza have ammunition for a 10mm automatic pistol--the kind the FBI uses? Is that for keeping woodchucks out of the tomato patch?

Maybe it's time to require a license for fire arms and ammo. ANY gun, accessory, or ammo transaction shall require a "right to bear" license, even if the sale is private. Sellers that do not file a transfer report subject to 10 years in jail.

We record VINs and transfer of cars, why not guns?

davey-526272,

Bad guys aren't getting machine guns.

Really? A 2009 report from California.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/publications/Firearms_Report_09.pdf

Bad guys are getting machine guns. A law is not going to stop a criminal. If someone wants a fully automatic weapon badly enough then they will get one.

Bad guys aren't getting dynamite

I that so? An incident in Oceanside, CA.

Drugs, cash, firearms and four sticks of dynamite were seized when investigators from the North County Regional Gang Task Force served three search warrants in Oceanside during an investigation into weapons and drug trafficking, the Sheriff's Department said Thursday.

Gee, bad guys are getting dynamite as well. How are laws stopping bad guys again? Oh, they don't stop bad guys from getting what they want.

Wow, Ray in Jax, 10 years for not reporting a sale? A guy was just granted parole after serving only 5 years for his wife's murder. Try putting things in perspective.

Satanick

Despite a federal law that prohibits convicted felons from buying firearms
Obama needs to this guy that he can't legally buy firearms since he is a felon. I'm sure this man was just unaware of the law and that he would not have obtained his arsenal otherwise. It's a good thing we have gun laws to keep these weapons out of dangerous peoples hands!

Yeah we have guns laws and obviously this guy slipped through the cracks somehow. Based on your attempted sarcasm, I guess you'd prefer we didn't ban felons from owning.

Actually, Chris, I think his point was, since outlawing felons from having firearms does not stop them from acquiring them, why enact additional laws limiting a law abiding citizen's rights to own?

Ron B,

First of all, T H A N K Y O U. I love data and the report you cited is really great.

Listen though, the report you cited shows that there are almost no machine guns involved in crimes. We are talking about three machine guns in 2009 used for crime, that was reported for the focus area.

How good would it be to bring the number of hand gun related crimes down to that level? How much safer would our country be?

Your point was that criminals do NOT get machine guns. I was pointing out that they do.

I would, with sadness, trade tragedies to ensure that I continue to have my 2nd Amendment rights. Here is something to explain why I fully support the 2nd Amendment and why every person who loves our country should support it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946) The battle of Athens, TN in 1946, in summary, was a group of hundreds of armed citizens who laid siege on a corrupt Sheriff and his deputies at their station. They even used dynamite to blast open the Sheriff's office doors. The Sheriff for years had usurped the position through voting fraud and was in the process of doing it again by illegally removing the ballot boxes from the polling station on the day of the election. I will fight tooth and nail to retain my arms and the Constitutional right to retain them.

It is unfortunate that criminals use guns to commit crimes. However, outlawing weapons of any type will not stop criminals from obtaining or using them. Decades of outlawing illegal drugs has done nothing to stop their import, trade or use. It would be the same with any weapons bans.

In 10 years, any bans would be moot. With the the advent of the 3D printer, anyone will soon be able to print their own firearms at home. It has already been done and in a decade those printers will be common place.

The gun ban in the U.K. has been ineffective. Gun crime has nearly doubled (some areas have seen as much as a 500% increase) since the ban was instituted and British police are now carrying sub-machine guns, for the first time ever, during routine patrols.

A Terrorist is a Terrorist, regardless of race, color, religion or politics. Take them all out.

Zardoz, WTF are you talking about?

Richard Schmidt (and people like him) is a home grown terrorist, plain and simple.

The Neo-Nazi movement, White Supremacists, Militias and the like are terrorist organizations and should be treated as such.

Militias are not necessarily terrorist organizations. The Constitution provides for the forming of militias by the people and for the appointment of officers by the members of the militia. Remember, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Colonial militias would be examples of terrorists, if you were Brit.

Read the link that I posted above about the Battle of Athens, TN. Would you label those men, who formed a militia, as terrorists who laid siege to the sheriff's office?

Ron B-2757074

Actually, Chris, I think his point was, since outlawing felons from having firearms does not stop them from acquiring them, why enact additional laws limiting a law abiding citizen's rights to own?

No it doesn't stop all of them. But what would it be like if there wasn't a law restricting felons? That's MY point.

More and more of you guys subscribe to the Perfect Solution fallacy, which states that until a perfect solution is found, don't even bother trying. And I'm sorry but that's a load of horse @!$%#.

Chris

We don't have to worry about not having laws restricting felons from possessing firearms.

More and more of you guys subscribe to the belief that a ban on certain weapons or magazines will somehow stop bad things from happening. Taking away guns from law abiding citizens opens the door for bad things to happen to us by our own governments. Did you look at the link to the Battle of Athens, TN in 1946? If those law abiding citizens did not have arms equal to those used by the sheriff and deputies then the outcome there may have been different.

If the government had been even remotely successful in stopping the illegal importation and sale of drugs over the last five decades then I might have faith in their ability to keep banned weapons out of the hands of criminals.

Gee he is a felon with a total disregard of the law, who would of thunk he could have broke the law again to get weapons illegally? Dah

Maybe we should make a new law for people like him, another one he would not follow anyway.

Ray in Jax,

How did he get the guns? Pretty simple, illegally. Doesn't matter what the laws are, these kinds of guys aren't going to obey them.

Your response was:

That NRA argument has dried up and been blown away with the wind. He could have easily obtained them at gun shows or from private collectors.

He is a felon. No matter how he acquired the weapons it was done illegally, since he is not legally allowed to purchase or own a firearm. The NRA's position that most criminals obtain weapons illegally holds true.

As long as it is not costly, I am all for private sale background checks. That still won't stop criminals from selling and buying guns illegally but it will limit their sources to people who are selling strictly outside of the law.

The ignorant politicians in CT, who want to have a 50% tax on ammunition, are just going to push purchasers across the state border. (Being such a small state it would not hamper anyone's ability to purchase ammo at a reasonable price.)

NY placed a ban on any magazine with a capacity of more than 10 rounds and limits a magazine to having no more than 7 rounds loaded. Why? It was done as a means to make nearly every semi-automatic pistol useless, until magazines are manufactured and sold to fit the new law's requirements. (I will never turn in my magazines.)They cited Sandy Hook and the Webster shootings as reasons. If the State of NY had kept a murderer in prison then he would not have been free to commit the Webster shootings. Just like politicians to deflect the cause of the shooting onto the means.

Wouldn't a WHITE supremacist stand out at a BLACK market?

I can agree with you on that Ron, except for the fact that the average person doesn't have access to a persons criminal/mental health record that authorities and deals pay to have. There are online companies that will do it for a charge, although I'm not sure how secure and accurate they are.

There will always be the private sales of guns that will never be registered, just as there will always be the illegal gun trade like in this article. All the laws in the world won't stop it.

Schmidt was charged with murder and felonious assault in 1989 after killing a Hispanic man and shooting two others with a semi-automatic pistol during a traffic dispute. He later pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter and was sentenced to 10 to 25 years in prison.

Seems to me that the loophole we should be talking about is the one that allowed him to plead to a lesser charge instead of being tried for the actual crime he committed and spending the rest of his life behind bars.

The NRA written, Republican additions to unrelated spending bills, have gutted the ATF's ability to track weapons, they are not allowed to maintain databases on weapon transfers or inventory, and background check data must be destroyed within 24 hrs, (so mistakes cannot be corrected). ATF funding has been kept so low that there are only 2500 agents to cover all alcohol, tobacco as well as the 100,000 gun sellers.

The NRA hypocrits as making America less safe.

We are living in the "Wild West" mentally again in America. Stop All guns sales! My relatives in Europe can see it and say, "If America is so great why all the fear of government and crime!" I have no response back!

Actually I do! We have a bunch of gun nuts led by the NRA who want to arm every American and flood the market with guns regardless of who buys them and who uses them!

This guy is the type of people Obama needs to be going after and leave us law abidding gun owners alone.

Newsflash. By expanding background checks to cover gun shows and by going after straw buyers, THIS IS the kinda guy Obama is going after. Hello?!?

He is a felon. No matter how he acquired the weapons it was done illegally, since he is not legally allowed to purchase or own a firearm. The NRA's position that most criminals obtain weapons illegally holds true.

Your logic is a bit flawed. He could have easily went through legal channels to obtain the weapons. That was my point. It is too easy to obtain firearms in this country with the private sale and gun show loopholes. The fact that he had 40k rounds of ammo and high cap mags further illustrates the point that something is fundamentally wrong.

He bought them just like most people! Not much of a story here in that question.

There is no flaw in my logic. If he purchased guns then he purchased them illegally. There is no legal channel for him to purchase a gun. A private sale is not a legal channel for him to purchase a gun.

I stated above that I am for background checks on private sales as long as they are not cost prohibitive. That still would not have stopped this guy from buying his guns from somebody selling them illegally. The government can not now, nor has it ever been able to, stop black market sales of any product.

davey,

Aren't 100,000s of killing machines, er, I mean guns, stolen every year?

Why not increase sentences for burglary and theft of firearms? If there were a 20 year mandatory sentence with no parole then perhaps there would be fewer guns stolen. Punish and take away the rights of the criminals and not the rights of law abiding citizens.

clwyd,

We have a bunch of gun nuts led by the NRA who want to arm every American and flood the market with guns regardless of who buys them and who uses them!

References, please. I would like to see just one single link to the NRA advocating a criminal's right to purchase and possess a gun. You will not be able to provide one because you are talking out of your a$$.

Ron B-2757074

Chris

We don't have to worry about not having laws restricting felons from possessing firearms.

More and more of you guys subscribe to the belief that a ban on certain weapons or magazines will somehow stop bad things from happening. Taking away guns from law abiding citizens opens the door for bad things to happen to us by our own governments. Did you look at the link to the Battle of Athens, TN in 1946? If those law abiding citizens did not have arms equal to those used by the sheriff and deputies then the outcome there may have been different.

A single incident 67 years ago is not proof we need to be as well armed as the government. I can list a dozen occasions in the last 10 years where the Feds have come in and arrested corrupt police officers and/or entire departments. Something that apparently wasn't possible in that Athens case. So maybe the Athens situation was needed at that time, but you have to have a lot of fear and paranoia inside you to actually believe that we'll be in a gun battle with our own government soon.

And I acknowledge that it's not a perfect solution to restrict the sales of assault weapons and high capacity magazines, but perhaps used in conjunction with the mental health and background check proposals, it might help. The thing is though, you guys are worrying for nothing. There is not a chance in hell Congress is going to re-institute the Assault Weapons Ban and a tiny, tiny chance they'd do it for high cap. mags. And Obama won't craft Executive Orders banning those 2 items. I'm sure he'll still submit a request to the House for legislation, the House will look at it, some people will stand up and make fiery speeches full of vim and vigor and rhetoric, and the bill will then quietly die in some committee and we'll roll on.

Until the next guy with a Bushmaster cracks...

The government can not now, nor has it ever been able to, stop black market sales of any product.~RonB

So have you been down to the local gun dealer and picked up your nuclear bomb? We "produce" quite a bit of high tech weapons but due to strict enforcement we have been able to keep them out of the hands of gunners

So what's the problem? The guy was just exercising his Constitutional rights.

Here in Colorado the Larimer County posted on his blog this week that he thinks that requiring a criminal background check for any gun purchase is unconstitutional, and that he would refuse to perform them in the future.

He later backtracked a little, but still...

Ron,

I'm not a computer wise on producing or even knowing how to get quotes to you, but I did note until this Sandy Hook Incident the NRA had been against all background checks. I think I finally read that they would now support it. Maybe not! As this radical group changes their mind in regards to everything in favor of increased guns sales!

As gun enthusiasts, we buy & sell at gun shows all the time. The law states we must verify residence & age. No driver's license, no sale. We prefer to sell to people that hold a CHL (concealed handgun license) these people have met any requirement to own a firearm, but it is not required by law.

If the wrong thing is said in the course of a sale.... it's OFF. Any impression of illegal intent or questionable credentials and it's over.

We are gun enthusiasts and enjoy fine weapons. We are not criminals & we would hope no one would accuse us of any crimes without basis.

We are being profiled & persecuted for the deeds of others. If this was to happen to any ethnic group or "alternative lifestyle" group the media would be yelling RACISM or BIGOTS, but since we are law-abiding citizens expressing our Constitutional rights, we are being forced to pay for the crimes.

Today, we are under attack. Who will it be tomorrow? Maybe you?

Steve,

You should be under attack! Background checks are a must and how can you sleep at night knowing what you might have let loose on America with such flimsy information about who you sold to? Stop the NRA! Stop guns sales!

To heck with the 2nd Amendment!

Ladies and Gentlemen, your NRA.

Because the people arguing that only law abiding citizens follow laws have any reason to not want a background check for everyone who buys a gun...

BTW, the list you are worried about the government keeping, isn't that essentially the list the NRA keeps of membership?

Ron, it may not seem simple to you but NOT requiring background checks for all private sales is tantamount to allowing criminals to buy guns without repercussions. If you don't see that HUGE loophole in the law then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Yet another neo-nazi felon walks to this day ....

Primary Name: Authur James Dicken

Aliases: AJ Dicken, Arthur James Dicken Jr.

Aurthur James Dicken, a white supremist and convicted felon, carries a full United Nations WSA IGO diplomatic passport and makes claims to be both a retired SEAL as well as current CIA operative. He claims to have worked at Executive Outcomes in Sierra Leone and that he planned that operation with the EO founders.

Dicken has been observed handling weapons that are possibly illegal for felons. (See photos and video captures below). Videos found online indicate he has handled pistols, AR-15s, and even a Barrett .50 calibre rifle.

Dicken is the chief of security and is named as the sole provider of security and logistics for all 28 sovereign nations of WSA (wsaigo.org), part of the United Nations Millenium Goals for 2015/2025. You can see him making presentations during the WSA Burundi meeting back in September 2012.

The diplomatic passport which Dicken carries, along with various forged documents, have been reported to be used in attempts to create international bank accounts and conceal funds.

Source: cryptome ... search for AJ Dicken

Chris,

A single incident 67 years ago is not proof we need to be as well armed as the government. I can list a dozen occasions in the last 10 years where the Feds have come in and arrested corrupt police officers and/or entire departments.

Please, list just 3 of the dozen in the last 10 years. I can't find one instance of federal authorities having arrested an entire law enforcement department.

You sound as if you believe that unimpeded cronyism and corruption don't occur now nor will they ever have a chance to occur in the future. 1946 was not that long ago. There are some 40 million people alive today when it occurred.

You have no idea what the future holds. If the economy tanks, massive inflation takes over, 30% unemployment, severe drought resulting in food and water shortage, enemy invasion, a corrupt faction of the government initiates a coup, any number of things could happen where the right to bear arms will become a right required for survival. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend that no bad things will ever happen and that the U.S. Government will be a wonderful caring take-care-of-your-every-need entity for eternity or you can use a little foresight, as did our forefathers when they wrote the Bill of Rights, and at least acknowledge that terrible circumstances like those could occur. Bear in mind that every government will fail. It is inevitable. No government could possibly continue for eternity. You would be arrogant and foolish to think otherwise.

Naquada,

If he is pictured holding firearms outside of the U.S. then he is not in violation of U.S. laws prohibiting felons from possessing firearms.

This wasn't a 2nd amendment issue, the guy tripped over counterfeit football jerseys. LOL. So much for neo-Nazi mental agility. The NRA can run defense in Congress and they can gut ATF enforcement but they can't fix stupid. Usually I feel a bit of sympathy for both victims and perpetrators of our 2nd amendment gun culture, but not this guy. Perhaps he should re-think his life style.

basedrum,

I've stated multiple times here that I am in favor of private sale background checks, as long as they are not too costly. I have also stated that they will still not stop criminals from obtaining guns on the black market. Has the importation and sale of illegal drugs been stopped? Neither a ban nor background checks will stop an illegal weapons trade.

keep it loaded...never know when a armed felon will come call'n...and if he do...he better be quick and a good shot the first time...cause that pump 12 with buckshot don't give a dam...

Statistically, it's more likely that the armed felon will come calling when you are not home and will steal your shotgun. Oh.

Ron B:

People are still of the failed belief that you can legislate the prevention of bad behavior. Even the supposed top daddy laws of them all, the Ten Commandments, isn't enough.

As long as there is bad in this world, just as the Second Amendment allows, everyone should have the right to arm themselves and shall not be infringed.

The law enforcement officials said the case appears to illustrate some of the gaps in current background checks for gun purchasers that President Barack Obama has proposed closing as part of his package of executive actions and legislative proposals released this week aimed at curbing gun violence.

It does? They have no clue where this guy got the guns. How can they say it illustrates gaps in the current background checks for gun purchasers? Nice, we have retarded law enforcement officials and the Left just slurps it up like starving babies eating Pablum.

Richard Schmidt is a felon because he murdered one man and injured two others with a handgun during a traffic dispute.

How many "assault weapons" would he have stockpiled if he was serving a life sentence or was sitting on death row for his original crime? None!

Where's the outrage over the fact that he was let back into society in the first place?

Just another NRA supporter exercising his 2^nd amendment rights.

This guy was convicted of manslaughter...that's killing somebody. So, why is he roaming free in our society? Answer: because our liberal "justice" system is a joke and allows many killers to do their thing because they "paid their debt to society". Don't blame guns, or any other weapon for the violence; blame idiot judges and lawyers.

You have no idea what the future holds. If the economy tanks, massive inflation takes over, 30% unemployment, severe drought resulting in food and water shortage, enemy invasion, a corrupt faction of the government initiates a coup, any number of things could happen where the right to bear arms will become a right required for survival. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend that no bad things will ever happen and that the U.S. Government will be a wonderful caring take-care-of-your-every-need entity for eternity or you can use a little foresight, as did our forefathers when they wrote the Bill of Rights, and at least acknowledge that terrible circumstances like those could occur. Bear in mind that every government will fail. It is inevitable. No government could possibly continue for eternity. You would be arrogant and foolish to think otherwise.

You are right, There is a small chance those can happen. But I'm not going to live my life hoarding guns and digging bunkers and live in fear the entire time. And while no government lasts forever, this one is doing a pretty damn good job hanging in there. I'm happy, my friends are happy, and as I turn 40 in a few months, I'm happy with what the future holds. I spent 13 years on active duty, 27 different countries, and there isn't a place I'd rather be than right where I am. So take that anyway you like, and feel free to live in paranoia. I'm not.

Watching many of you bantering back and forth over the effectiveness of gun laws is hilarious! Did anyone catch the part where he was sentenced in 1989 for manslaughter to ten to twenty five years? He certainly didn't do the max as he would still be in jail. He probably did about 7 years and was let go on parole for good behavior. If he was still in jail he would not be hoarding guns now would he. He plead guilty to shooting two men with a gun he had no permit for at the time and all he got was 10 to 25. What does that tell you about our laws and how they are enforced? What does that tell you about our legal system? The punishment must fit the crime! There are over 2000 gun laws on the books in our 50 states that are there to restrict the use, ownership, and sales. Each state already has regulations about gun ownership and the federal government also has their own restrictions already in place. How is one more written law going to make a difference? Enforce the ones already there before wasting more time and tax dollars on another effort doomed to fail because of apathy. The countries in the world that have much lower rates of gun violence than the US have one thing in common, that is they punish the guilty and hold them fully accountable for their actions. They do not let them go after a third of their sentence for good behavior. Another point to make here is that jail in the US is far different than Jails in the rest of the world. Remember that when a person commits a crime he or she forfeits their liberty and their rights until their sentence has been served and their debt to society paid. This nut should never have been allowed back out in the streets. He showed violent tendencies when he shot the two men he was doing time for, and should have been evaluated several times while in jail before any thought of parole was even considered.

Ron said ...

Your point was that criminals do NOT get machine guns. I was pointing out that they do.

Aww, c 'mon Ron, cut me a little slack. There is an exception to every rule. The statement that I made, that bad guys are not getting machine guns is true, with a few exceptions. Machine guns are not a problem in our society today because hardly anyone has them and the people who do have them have been screened for their suitability to have a machine gun and because they are so expensive and because they are so difficult to replace if lost or stolen. So, the gun control laws for machine guns are working very, very, very well. We should all be proud that gun control can be so effective. It is the model that we need to follow, if we want to reduce hand gun abuse. I promise you that America will be a safer country if we apply the same rules to hand guns, that we have for machine guns.

I would, with sadness, trade tragedies to ensure that I continue to have my 2nd Amendment rights.

With sadness, I understand what you are saying and I appreciate the fact that you said it. Many people feel the way you do.

But there have to be limits. What are your limits? At what point does 2A abuse become so destructive to a society that something needs to be done? I'm asking you. Have you thought about it? We know approx how many gun deaths there are in the US each year. Above what number would you say that we need to do something? If there were 1,000,000 gun deaths in the US next year, would you say that something needed to be done, to curtail guns in the US?

Here is something to explain why I fully support the 2nd Amendment and why every person who loves our country should support it.... I will fight tooth and nail to retain my arms and the Constitutional right to retain them.

Calm down Ron, you can keep your arms, and your legs, and your guns.

I'm not against armed citizens. But I am against certain types of arms.

Look, we have tough laws for buying a machine gun. Are you glad those laws are in place, or do you wish it was as easy to buy a machine gun today, as it is to buy a hand gun? If the latter, tell me how you are suffering because of your inability to buy a machine gun. Why is your life bad because you do not have a machine gun? Why do you need a machine gun?

It is unfortunate that criminals use guns to commit crimes. However, outlawing weapons of any type will not stop criminals from obtaining or using them. Decades of outlawing illegal drugs has done nothing to stop their import, trade or use. It would be the same with any weapons bans.

I can't believe that you are saying this. Look at the report from California that you cited earlier. There are almost no crimes being committed with machine guns. Gun control laws make that possible. Gun control laws do work.

Why not increase sentences for burglary and theft of firearms? If there were a 20 year mandatory sentence with no parole then perhaps there would be fewer guns stolen. Punish and take away the rights of the criminals and not the rights of law abiding citizens.

Sounds good to me. But you know, lots and lots and LOTS of guns are stolen each year. Can you think of something that gun owners can do, that they are not doing now, to keep their guns from being stolen? Can we put some of this responsibility on the gun owner, to make sure that their guns are not stolen?

Would you agree with me that the cost to society of stolen guns is huge (just huge)? Is the cost of stolen guns to the society huge? Are stolen guns used to commit crimes, inflict injuries, and even death? What is the cost of stolen guns to our society? Who pays that bill? Is it the tax payer? My taxes? Am I paying for the mistakes of gun owners? Because you know Ron, any damn moron can buy a gun. You don't have to be smart. Or emotionally stable. You don't even have to know how to use the danm thing. And, society pays. Why should I pay? I don't have guns. Should gun owners have insurance, to pay for the havoc that their toys have on our society? What is the cost of guns to our society? Ron, what is the cost of the damage being done with guns? Why is this situation fiscally responsible?

Those who "want," WILL get........Background checks at gun shows won't work when his buddy, wife, girlfriend, or just some moron on the street (with no record) he meets, will buy the guns for him.

What a LOT of the problem is and has been, are the F'ing judges who let these dirt bags out of prison on early release programs because some state legislator wants to save the taxpayers money. A lot like kicking surgery patients out of the hospital early because the insurance companies don't want to pay anymore than they have to. You can thank Judges who usually don't make good lawyers anyway (that's why they're judges); cheap ass state legislators; liberal groups who want these felons out early because society continues to harm their relationship with their families, ect., ect., ect.

My "cure" is to build Quonset huts 200 miles north of the arctic circle; drop these filth off there; no roads in; no walls, no barbed wire, no gun towers, no phones, no visitation, no HBO, no basketball, no gyms, NO NOTHING except COLD, WIND and POLAR BEARS and one hell of a long walk to freedom, if they choose, without winter clothing. I would bet that that would deter some of these filth.

The one question that came to my mind first thing was how did a convicted felon get a business license to own/operate a sporting goods store?

@davey: require all gun owners to keep ALL weapons secured in an authorized tamper-proof gun safe in their home.

Chris,

I do not live in paranoia. I don't believe these things will happen in my lifetime but I am not going to roll over and allow laws to be encated which will keep me or future generations from having the 2nd Amendment rights when they are needed. I am glad you are happy. Good for you. I am happy as well. I don't hoard weapons or have a bunker. I live my life. I also do not ignore or refuse to see the bad and evil things that can happen.

I spent 10 years Army Infantry. I have travelled the world and filled one and a half passports. I also would rather be nowhere than right here in the U.S.A.

I have a question for you. After having sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution for the United States of America, why would you be so willing to allow it to be diminished just for the sake of a false sense of security that certain weapons and magazine bans would bring? You know full well that there is no law which will stop a criminal from getting any gun he wants.

The ban has already happened in New York State. That libtard piece of crap Cuomo pushed through some more overreaching legislation which he is proud of. Why are liberals so happy when they get to sh!t on the Constitutional rights of others? A maximum 7 round capacity magazine (which don't even exist for any semi-auto pistol or AR style rifle that I know of). "Assault" weapons are defined as having just a single "military characteristic" instead of the national standard of two. If it has a pistol grip it is an assault weapon. If it has a flash supressor it is an assault weapon. If it has a folding or telescopic stock it is an assault weapon. Why would a flash suppressor be considered a danger? Why would an adjustable stock be considered a danger? Why would an ergonomically functional pistol grip be a danger? Of course he didn't address light sentences for murderers which allowed the Webster, NY firefighter ambush to take place. Can't put any blame on a faulty judicial system with ridiculously out of whack sentencing guidelines. Let's not blame the murdering felon who purchased a gun and ammunition illegally through a straw purchaser neighbor. No. Let's diminish the rights of law abiding citizens and tell them it's for their own safety.

From the World Health Organization:

The latest Murder Statistics for the world:

Murders per 100,000 citizens

Honduras 91.6

El Salvador 69.2

Cote d'lvoire 56.9

Jamaica 52.2

Venezuela 45.1

Belize 41.4

US Virgin Islands 39.2

Guatemala 38.5

Saint Kits and Nevis 38.2

Zambia 38.0

Uganda 36.3

Malawi 36.0

Lesotho 35.2

Trinidad and Tobago 35.2

Colombia 33.4

South Africa 31.8

Congo 30.8

Central African Republic 29.3

Bahamas 27.4

Puerto Rico 26.2

Saint Lucia 25.2

Dominican Republic 25.0

Tanzania 24.5

Sudan 24.2

Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9

Ethiopia 22.5

Guinea 22.5

Dominica 22.1

Burundi 21.7

Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7

Panama 21.6

Brazil 21.0

Equatorial Guinea 20.7

Guinea-Bissau 20.2

Kenya 20.1

Kyrgyzstan 20.1

Cameroon 19.7

Montserrat 19.7

Greenland 19.2

Angola 19.0

Guyana 18.6

Burkina Faso 18.0

Eritrea 17.8

Namibia 17.2

Rwanda 17.1

Mexico 16.9

Chad 15.8

Ghana 15.7

Ecuador 15.2

North Korea 15.2

Benin 15.1

Sierra Leone 14.9

Mauritania 14.7

Botswana 14.5

Zimbabwe 14.3

Gabon 13.8

Nicaragua 13.6

French Guiana 13.3

Papua New Guinea 13.0

Swaziland 12.9

Bermuda 12.3

Comoros 12.2

Nigeria 12.2

Cape Verde 11.6

Grenada 11.5

Paraguay 11.5

Barbados 11.3

Togo 10.9

Gambia 10.8

Peru 10.8

Myanmar 10.2

Russia 10.2

Liberia 10.1

Costa Rica 10.0

Nauru 9.8

Bolivia 8.9

Mozambique 8.8

Kazakhstan 8.8

Senegal 8.7

Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7

Mongolia 8.7

British Virgin Islands 8.6

Cayman Islands 8.4

Seychelles 8.3

Madagascar 8.1

Indonesia 8.1

Mali 8.0

Pakistan 7.8

Moldova 7.5

Kiribati 7.3

Guadeloupe 7.0

Haiti 6.9

Timor-Leste 6.9

Anguilla 6.8

Antigua and Barbuda 6.8

Lithuania 6.6

Uruguay 5.9

Philippines 5.4

Ukraine 5.2

Estonia 5.2

Cuba 5.0

Belarus 4.9

Thailand 4.8

Suriname 4.6

Laos 4.6

Georgia 4.3

Martinique 4.2

And

The United States 4.2

ALL the countries above America have 100% gun bans

Remember that when a person commits a crime he or she forfeits their liberty and their rights until their sentence has been served and their debt to society paid.

You must not be speaking of America. In some states, even when their debt to society has been paid, those caught and prosecuted for committing a crime have their right to vote removed forever.

Just imagine the lack of eligible voters if our system were truly just and everyone committing a crime were prosecuted and convicted, including so called "white collar" criminals such as corrupt politicians, Wall Street and heads of corporations.

Ron B-2757074

davey,

Aren't 100,000s of killing machines, er, I mean guns, stolen every year?

Why not increase sentences for burglary and theft of firearms? If there were a 20 year mandatory sentence with no parole then perhaps there would be fewer guns stolen. Punish and take away the rights of the criminals and not the rights of law abiding citizens.

The left can't get behind that way of thinking. If the death penalty doesn't deter crimes a measly 20 years wont do much. If the 20 year mandatory sentance was enacted the only difference between that and the death penalty would be that the death penalty is 100% guaranteed to prevent repeat offenders.

Just sit back and watch, "assault weapons" are way down the list on weapons used for murder, but once they get a toe hold they willgo after more, just like taxes. Did you notice as soon as our taxes went up Pelosi was already telling the rich "we'll be back for more."

ALL the countries above America have 100% gun bans

That is a false statement. For example, I am familiar with Russia. You can get a gun in Russia.

Why would you make such an obviously false statement?

Why do you keep bringing up and focusing on machine guns? I could give a fuc*ing rat's a$$ about machine guns. Having served in the Infantry, I would much rather have a semi-auto rifle with hard sights than an automatic weapon. They are more accurate, easier to move and less wasteful of ammunition. 9 out of 10 times I will hit a target at 300 meters with a single round from an AR style rifle.

We know approx how many gun deaths there are in the US each year. Above what number would you say that we need to do something? If there were 1,000,000 gun deaths in the US next year, would you say that something needed to be done, to curtail guns in the US?

1,000,000 gun deaths? Yes, something would need to be done. Martial law would need to be declared and the streets should be filled with National Guard.

I'm not against armed citizens. But I am against certain types of arms.

You are against ALL handguns. Let me ask you. Do you think a handgun ban would keep criminals from getting them? Gun crime has nearly doubled in the U.K. since their gun ban. Some areas of the U.K. have seen an increase in gun crime as high as 500%. You appear to be against all guns which have a capacity for ammunition higher than what is needed to hunt animals. What would you have us armed with? A short range shotgun? A low capacity bolt action rifle?

I can't believe that you are saying this. Look at the report from California that you cited earlier. There are almost no crimes being committed with machine guns. Gun control laws make that possible.

That report showed the number of crimes with machine guns. It is not an indication of how many machine guns are actually owned by criminals. Handguns a more easily concealed and is the weapon of choice for criminals while in the commission of robbery, assault and murder. I'd be willing to put all of money on the fact that the major gangs have automatic weapons stashed for when they need them.

Gun control laws do work.

Gun control laws do not work. There has been a gun ban in NYC for 100 years. Just about the only people licensed to have guns are retired NYPD cops. Visiting police from upstate NY have to turn in their weapons when entering the city, even if they are on official business for prisoner transfers. How safe has NYC been for the last 100 years? They recently made national headlines for having a murder free Monday. How fuc&ing bad does a place have to be to make national news when nobody is murdered?

Sounds good to me. But you know, lots and lots and LOTS of guns are stolen each year. Can you think of something that gun owners can do, that they are not doing now, to keep their guns from being stolen? Can we put some of this responsibility on the gun owner, to make sure that their guns are not stolen?

Many gun owners do lock their guns in their cabinets. They are not that hard to bust up. Most just don't own big gun safes. Ever priced one? Stop focusing on blaming the victims of burglary and start focusing on the criminal.

What is the cost of stolen guns to our society? Who pays that bill? Is it the tax payer? My taxes? Am I paying for the mistakes of gun owners? Because you know Ron, any damn moron can buy a gun. You don't have to be smart. Or emotionally stable. You don't even have to know how to use the danm thing. And, society pays. Why should I pay? I don't have guns.

Why am I paying school taxes for everybody else's kids? Am I paying for someone else's kid to waste my dollars by screwing off, flunking classes and dropping out? I don't have kids. Why should I pay? Why am I paying taxes to fund prisons? Am I paying for the mistakes of criminals? I've never committed a crime. I've never been arrested. Any damn moron can commit a crime. You don't have to be smart. And, society pays. Why should I pay? I don't commit crimes. Why am I paying taxes for welfare benefits? I've never collected welfare. Any damn moron can collect welfare. And, society pays. Why should I pay?... We all pay for things we don't agree with in our society. You don't have to be happy about it. There are a lot of things I'm not happy about having to pay for.

davey,

That is a false statement. For example, I am familiar with Russia. You can get a gun in Russia.

Why would you make such an obviously false statement?

Apparently you are not familiar enough with Russia. This is in the news today.

Russian Gun Lobby Seeks Right To Bear Arms

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-gun-laws-newtown-massacre/24804185.html

This speaks directly to my point. You can get guns in Russia, even though they are banned. Criminals get what they want. You can't stop a black market.

p.s. google is your friend

Under current law, Russians can own smooth-bore, long-barreled shotguns and nonlethal weapons for self defense, like gas pistols and stun guns. Handguns, as well as assault weapons, are illegal.

Convincing the broader population of the need to expand gun rights in Russia, where the murder rate is higher than any country in Europe, will likely be a difficult proposition.

The gun bans don't seem to have helped their gun crime problem.

cannonballer,

Unfortunately, the only reason capital punishment is not a deterrent here is because the death sentence is rarely carried out and the convicted person will likely spend at least 20 years in prison before their appeals run out.

The United States 4.2

ALL the countries above America have 100% gun bans

Most of the countries listed above us in this dubious stat also tend not to be westernized, 1st world, democracies either. Great company we keep, eh?

Hey, at least we're better in terms of gun violence than Swaziland and Equatorial Guinea, and our rate is half that of Kazakhstan. We should be so proud...

Unfortunately, the only reason capital punishment is not a deterrent here is because the death sentence is rarely carried out and the convicted person will likely spend at least 20 years in prison before their appeals run out.

well that, and a person who is capable of committing a crime that would warrant the death penalty is generally F'ing crazy and not particularly worried about things like "laws" and the "justice system."

You can get guns in Russia, even though they are banned.

Ron, you are losing it. You can get guns in Russia.

Can you agree with me that when 'Where's Waldo' said, "ALL the countries above America have 100% gun bans" that he was wrong? Do you agree that Russia does not have a 100% gun ban?

Can you tell 'Where's Waldo' that he is wrong?

And, 'Where's Waldo', how many countries that have a lower murder rate than the US have much more restrictive gun laws than the US?

Gun crime has nearly doubled in the U.K. since their gun ban. Some areas of the U.K. have seen an increase in gun crime as high as 500%.

Show me the data to support this statement.

Why am I paying school taxes for everybody else's kids?

You don't understand the benefits of living in a prosperous society?

Why am I paying taxes to fund prisons? Am I paying for the mistakes of criminals?

You don't want to live in a country that has a strong criminal justice system?

This is one of the characteristics of gun people. They only focus on themselves. They don't see themselves as part of a large society. They are under the serious illusion that their guns protect them, and being part of a stable, safe, educated society is not the biggest factor for safety.

La Raza and the black panther is a hate group! so why don't the feds go after them. This guy owns a sporting goods store too. This story has liberal communists and propaganda media writen all over it.

davey, you are being ignorant. The out of control murders in Russia are not being committed with shotguns. Handguns, sniper rifles and semi-auto and automatic rifles are used by massive crime syndicates. There was an assassination of a mafia boss recently in central Moscow with a silenced sniper rifle. http://rt.com/news/king-russian-mafia-killed-112/

This is one of the characteristics of gun people. They only focus on themselves. They don't see themselves as part of a large society. They are under the serious illusion that their guns protect them, and being part of a stable, safe, educated society is not the biggest factor for safety

OMG!? You are completely focused on your own desire for a total ban on handguns and screw anybody else's rights. I was being sarcastic, for the most part, (except for the out of control welfare) on that post by parroting your ridiculous complaints about the cost of guns to you.

Gun crime has nearly doubled in the U.K. since their gun ban. Some areas of the U.K. have seen an increase in gun crime as high as 500%.

Show me the data to support this statement

Jesus, dude. Do you even know how to use google? I will provide you the data and you still won't acknowledge it's validity.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

The area to see the highest increase was Lancashire and had a gun crime increase of 598%.

Ron, I am probably more familiar than most Americans about what is happening in Russia.

Please provide a reference for your statement:

The out of control murders in Russia are not being committed with shotguns.

Can you agree with me that when 'Where's Waldo' said, "ALL the countries above America have 100% gun bans" that he was wrong? Do you agree that Russia does not have a 100% gun ban?

Ron, you also said,

OMG!? You are completely focused on your own desire for a total ban on handguns and screw anybody else's rights.

I never said that I wanted a total ban on hand guns. Why do you say that I have a desire for a total ban on hand guns? Where did you get that?

Jesus, dude. Do you even know how to use google? I will provide you the data and you still won't acknowledge it's validity.

Ron, you are starting to sound a little testy. If you do not enjoy chatting with me, may I suggest that you find someone else to chat with? I do not want to upset you.

Yes, I know how to do an internet search. Thank you very much for asking. Please forgive me, but I wanted to see the data that you saw. I'm sorry if I imposed terribly on your busy schedule.

I read the article. Not data, like I wanted, but a newspaper article. The article made no reference to a gun ban. Can you clarify that for me? You said that gun crime has nearly doubled since the gun ban. When was the gun ban?

The article does say that gun violence has risen in the UK. But did you see the numbers? Tiny when compared to the US. What point are you trying to make by citing this article? That gun bans do not work? Look at the small amount of gun violence in the UK, even after it has doubled. I think the UK gun ban is working well.

the point of making laws about assault rifles isn't to stop EVERYONE from getting them. yes, criminals will get them but there will be fewer who can steal them if citizens don't have them in their homes. fewer will buy them fromprivate sales since the people doing those private sales won't be allowed to legally sell or possess them. the price on the black market would go up so low level criminals wouldn't be as likely to be able to afford them.

the criminals will still get them argument is stupid. yes, they will but not in the amounts that they currently do making tragedies like the shootings alot less likely. it's not perfect but i'm not hearing anything close to it from the NRA side either.

I have recently heard from the libtard supreme, Piers Morgan, that murders are at an all time low in the U.K. He was trumpeting it as a gun control victory. I was waiting to see the anti-gun crowd start trumpeting this so that I could shoot down their imagined victory.

The drop has been attributed to a 40% reduction in domestic violence.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/19/falling-murder-rate-domestic-violence

In 2001 crown prosecutors didn't even monitor domestic violence cases, but the figures have risen from 35,000 defendants in 2003-04 to more than 74,000 in 2009-10, with an ever increasing conviction rate.

Hmm... tackling the root of a problem to prevent murders. What a novel idea.

You never stated that you want handguns banned? Technically, no. You just think that a person should be federally licensed and have to pay thousands of dollars for the privelege of owning one. (Only the wealthy and priveleged should be able to protect themselves.)

We need to see which guns are cause the most damage when they fall into the hands of bad guys. And we need to put those kinds of guns under the same kind of controls that we use for machine guns and dynamite.

I'm talking about hand guns.

Yes, that fool stated 100% bans. He is an idiot. That does not negate the fact that some have complete bans and others have very rigid restrictions.

I read the article. Not data, like I wanted, but a newspaper article. The article made no reference to a gun ban. Can you clarify that for me? You said that gun crime has nearly doubled since the gun ban. When was the gun ban?

The handgun ban was enacted in 1998. The article was written in 2009. Let me extract the data for you.

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

Lancashire suffered the single largest rise in gun crime, with recorded offences increasing from 50 in 1998/99 to 349 in 2007/08, an increase of 598 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .

Gun crime and gun deaths were far lower prior to the ban. How can you call the ban successful? I don't get it. Gun crime and gun deaths have increased. You think we have a problem with handgun deaths now? What if there were a handgun ban here and in a decade the number of handgun deaths had doubled? Would you count that a victory?

Ben Franklin said, "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead"

This guy obviously didn't hear about that.

davey,

I apologize for being testy earlier. I'm battling insomnia and strep throat but that is really not an acceptable excuse. I appreciate your input and can appreciate you wanting to do something to try to curb gun violence, even if I think a ban of any type would be ineffective and counterproductive.

I think more could be accomplished by finding out why certain types of murders take place and addressing the root cause. If your check engine light comes on you don't just pull the bulb and expect the problem to go away. You find out what's wrong with the car and you fix it.

Pass a law and then it's left to become everybody else's problem because society has "fixed" it.

Quick fix bans and enacting laws in an attempt to circumvent society's bad behavior is much more conscious cleansing than the more healthy, successful and time consuming method of healing the root of the problem.

Laws are not the be all to end all key to curtailing bad behavior. Our country focuses too much time and wasted energy worrying about the caliber of my bullets when we should be focusing on why we need those bullets.

Witchking - "the government if they had their way would take away all guns and leave us at the mercy of criminals and madmen like this guy"

You mean the police?

Hi Debi, I'm not trying to change people's behavior. I'm trying to make it more difficult for people to get guns that are used most commonly to commit murder.

Ron, I looked into the UK gun ban. Not everyone is convinced that the UK gun ban is a rousing a success.

But, the UK's murder rate and gun violence rates are so low, that I would not draw too many conclusions yet about the long term success of their law. Interestingly, not many in the UK are demanding that the law be revoked. So, they seem to be happy with it. Not withstanding, of course, some die hard gun people.

Hi Debi, I'm not trying to change people's behavior. I'm trying to make it more difficult for people to get guns that are used most commonly to commit murder.

Hi davey. Before guns were invented, has murder and crime ever been successfully curtailed? It's not the method that needs fixing, it's the reasoning. Until we as a society figure that out, we're just spinning in a hamster wheel.

The U.K.'s rates are low because of a fundamental difference in how our societies work. Their gun crime is on the rise because of a rise in gang culture.

Stats in the U.S.

45.3 percent of females murdered in 2008 were murdered by an intimate. Address domestic violence and you address a large number of gun deaths.

Homicides fall to lowest rate in four decades

That was not due to any overreaching gun control measures.

http://www.ojp.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/2011/BJS_PR-111611.pdf

Blacks were six times more likely than whites to be homicide victims and seven times more likely to commit homicides than whites.

The number of homicides known to involve adult or juvenile gun violence has quadrupled since 1980

Address the causes not the weapons. Gangs, poverty, education, family structure, family values, etc...

Wait a minute - I thought President Obama was the Nazi! Not these good, godfeerin' white folks from the heartland just exercising their 2nd amendment rights and preparing for the coming battle against insurrection. Darn it all, now I'm all confused. I wonder if the investigators found a stash of Glen Beck books too?

Debi,

Before guns were invented, has murder and crime ever been successfully curtailed?

Well, I don't know. What was the murder rate in England in 1200? Are you saying that you know for a fact that there are the same (or fewer?!?) murders today than there were when there were no guns? How do you know that there are not more murders per capita today, and that guns (easy way to kill) are the reason?

It's not the method that needs fixing, it's the reasoning

Well, tell me more about that. What are your thoughts about coming at the murder problem from a 'reasoning' point of view?

Ron..

45.3 percent of females murdered in 2008 were murdered by an intimate. Address domestic violence and you address a large number of gun deaths.

How do you do that, address domestic violence? And, what percentage of those were murdered with a gun?

Well, tell me more about that. What are your thoughts about coming at the murder problem from a 'reasoning' point of view?

That's the problem, davey. You would think that after thousands of years of murder history, man would know more about that subject and how to stop it.

Man's priorities and spending are/have been war and how to escalate it, with very little being spent on peace and achieving that through the healing of the mind.

Man's priorities and spending are/have been war and how to escalate it, with very little being spent on peace and achieving that through the healing of the mind.

What better example of that is there than gun ownership in the US? You need a gun because the bad guy has a gun ...

What better example of that is there than gun ownership in the US? You need a gun because the bad guy has a gun ...

Like I said, man still hasn't figured it out; but until that happens, yes, I want the ability to protect myself.

How do you address domestic violence? First, if physical evidence and initial contact with the victim shows violence perpetrated by the partner then take prosecution out of the hands of the victim. Arrest and put abusers on trial without testimony from a victim who frequently refuses to press charges.

Put people in jail for first offenses and eliminate the need for protective orders.

For all crimes, start actually punishing people instead of cutting deals and handing out probation and reduced sentences like it's halloween candy.

Result in an overwhelming load on the courts? Too goddamn bad. A guy who murders his wife because she wants a divorce should not be able to cut a no trial deal in exchange for a 5-10 year sentence. Just because you admit to doing something heinous should not mean a thing.

And, what percentage of those were murdered with a gun?

Overall, more than two-thirds of victims murdered by a spouse or ex-spouse were killed by a gun.

Like I said, man still hasn't figured it out; but until that happens, yes, I want the ability to protect myself.

I protect myself. I don't have a gun. I think that I am safer without one. Guns turn confrontations into deadly confrontations.

I understand the urge to want a gun to protect yourself. Guns give you a power. Who wouldn't want a power?

But what does not make any sense to me is also advocating that those guns be widely available. That means that the bad guys can also have a gun. They have the power, too. And, an armed attacker has the advantage over an armed intended victim. That is why the FBI stats show, murder with a hand gun is 20 times more likely than a justifiable homicide.

Especially hand guns. So easy to conceal. You'll be on your victim before he knows what happened. Just like Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald. Hand guns give the attacker a real advantage.

I understand that the vast majority of hand guns will not be used to kill. But when they are used, it is usually not a happy ending.

And then they can be stolen. Just like that nice Nancy Lanza. Her hand guns were taken from her and used to kill her. Oops.

Look at the US murder rate, when compared with other western, industrial countries. More guns less crime? I don't think so. Compare the US crime rate to Canada. Fewer guns equals less crime.

The best way to protect yourself is to live in a safe place. Would you rather live in a bad place with a gun, or a safe place without a gun?

Wow, is anyone at all surprised that a white supremacist was discovered in Bowling Green?

This is the same city that had signs on the city limits saying that black people better be on the other side of the signs after sundown. It might be a college town but the locals also have a large TEAparty organization and the town tends to vote GOP.

I don't have a gun. I think that I am safer without one. Guns turn confrontations into deadly confrontations.

I have a gun. I think that I am safer with one and fortunately, confrontations have never turned into a deadly confrontation.

I understand that the vast majority of hand guns will not be used to kill. But when they are used, it is usually not a happy ending.

Same thing when using poison or knives as a weapon before the advent of the gun, as I'm sure Julius Caesar would attest to, if he could.

The best way to protect yourself is to live in a safe place. Would you rather live in a bad place with a gun, or a safe place without a gun?

For most people living in a bad place is not a choice. Which leads us again, back to square one of dealing with the cause to combat crime and violence and not the method.

Most gun laws are pointless and do nothing.

You may be right. But, I know one gun law that is not pointless and does do something very well. It is the gun law concerning machine guns. The laws concerning the puchase of a machine gun seem to be doing a very good job of keeping machine guns out of the hands of criminals. Machine gun violence is not a problem in America today. Other gun laws are not as good as the law for machine guns. laws governing the purchase of machine guns are enforced at the national and state level. Very good set of laws. really

For most people living in a bad place is not a choice.

Can you provide proof for this statement? If someone is living in a bad place, they need to get out. ASAP. To choose to live in a bad place is the biggest mistake you can make. As far as I can tell, the only reason someone might be stuck in a bad place is because of stupidity. Hmm, stupid person, with a gun, in a bad place, what could go wrong?

Same thing when using poison or knives as a weapon before the advent of the gun, as I'm sure Julius Caesar would attest to, if he could.

But here is what we do not know, were there fewer murders per capita before guns? If fewer murders are commited with knives and poison, that is not an argument in favor of guns.

I have a gun. I think that I am safer with one and fortunately, confrontations have never turned into a deadly confrontation.

Very fortunate. You think you are safer, sure, but are you? Some people think they are happier when high on heroin. But, are you safer with a gun? Having a gun is a big decision. We all have heard the stories of guns being stolen, or used against a family member, even if only by accident. You know there is an element of danger to just have a gun. You have to be very careful, to be sure that children do not get them. Such a responsibilty. How can you be sure that you are safer with a gun? There must be some evidence? How can you be sure that you are safer with a gun, when everyone else has them, too? I'd love to see some data about this.

If someone is living in a bad place, they need to get out. ASAP.

You must be unfamiliar with the restrictive nature of poverty.

Some people think they are happier when high on heroin. But, are you safer with a gun? Having a gun is a big decision

Making the decision to own a gun was done with a clear mind; while thinking I'm happier when high on heroin is not.

The point is legislating bad behavior and its tools is a proven failure, whether that behavior is carried out by weapon, physical force or psychological. Quantitative success will only be found in healing the mind.

You must be unfamiliar with the restrictive nature of poverty.

I am unfamiliar with the restrictive nature of poverty. I am, however, aware of the restrictive nature of stupidity. i.e. life is hard, but it's even harder when you're dumb

The point is legislating bad behavior and its tools is a proven failure, whether that behavior is carried out by weapon, physical force or psychological.

Canada in the 1970s passed strict gun control laws. Their murder rate went down immediately.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada#Violent_crime.2C_suicide_and_accidents_in_Canada

Quantitative success will only be found in healing the mind.

Maybe the gun control laws also heal the mind?

It only makes sense that if guns are used a lot to kill, that if you remove or reduce guns, that there will be less killing. So simple.

I am unfamiliar with the restrictive nature of poverty. I am, however, aware of the restrictive nature of stupidity. i.e. life is hard, but it's even harder when you're dumb

Humans can't control the IQ capacity they were born with, but they can control ignorance. Enlighten yourself.

It only makes sense that if guns are used a lot to kill, that if you remove or reduce guns, that there will be less killing. So simple.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, if you're so inclined.

Humans can't control the IQ capacity they were born with, but they can control ignorance. Enlighten yourself.

I'm trying. Can you contribute anything?

There's more than one way to skin a cat, if you're so inclined.

By all means, elaborate.

I'm trying. Can you contribute anything?

The wonderful advent of the Internet. For starters, just google the word "poverty".

By all means, elaborate.

All the ways mankind used to commit crime and violence before the introduction of the gun.

davey, are you just trying to make conversation? If so, that's alright, but sometimes I get the feeling I'm communicating with someone who has never lived on this planet. Lol

I can assure you that I have lived on this planet. Your confusion on that point is one more thing betrays a not so firm grasp on reality. :-)

For example, you seem to think that because guns were not invented until around 700 years ago, that any damage that they cause is not specific to the gun. You don't know if there was more crime or less crime before people had guns.

Yes, there was crime and violence before guns. There is crime and violence now that we have guns. But, have guns increased the amount of crime and violence? Do you know the answer to that question?

I don't believe anyone could have that answer because stats on violence were not being kept 700 years ago.

davey,

Prior to gun proliferation there were swords, crossbows, maces, halberds, etc. Rulers did not allow the peasant class to own these weapons so that it would be easier to control them through force.

Our rights to bear arms is necessary to retain our freedoms. Start banning certain weapons and magazines now, under the guise of public safety, then where will it stop? A disarmed, or severly disadvantaged population is eaiser to control through force or even the threat of force.

Hi Ron B., nice to see you back.

A disarmed, or severly disadvantaged population is eaiser to control through force or even the threat of force.

Which is why we are one of the most free countries of the world.

TheEndOfTheUS,

I have a friend who was arrested. He is a Vietnam veteran. He was making guns for his own enjoyment. He was sent to prison for making guns. He no longer enjoys guns.

With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is
not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However,
a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or
non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA
firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a
machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that
the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.

[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]

Making firearms is legal. Apparently your friend did not follow the law surrounding the manufacture of firearms. Did he make fully automatic weapons? Did he make semi-auto weapons with imported parts for non-sporting purposes?

davey,

Currently, shooting and stabbing represent the two most common mechanisms for homicide in Canada, each accounting for approximately 30% of murders

Overall suicide in Canada peaked in 1978 at 14.5 per 100,000,^[34] declining by 22% (11.3 per 100,000) in 2004.^[35][36] During this same time period, firearm suicides declined by 55% (1287 individuals to a low of 568) ^[37] while the number of non-firearm suicides increased by 52% (2,046 in 1977 to 3,116 in 2003).^{[citation needed]} In response to the 2001 registration requirements, some psychiatric doctors have argued that the legislation is not as effective as treatment in the prevention of suicide, given alternate mechanisms are available for suicide

Murders with firearms in Canada decreased but it is still the most commonly used weapon, along with knives, in murders. Suicide by firearms dropped but there was an increase in other methods.

It only makes sense that if guns are used a lot to kill, that if you remove or reduce guns, that there will be less killing. So simple.

That sounds like a logical statement but it can't be proven. This is not a methematical logic problem with absolute variables. Canada saw a decrease but other countries have seen an increase. There are overriding social factors to consider.

Russia has very restrictive gun ownership laws. You can't own a handgun or a rifle in Russia. Their murder rate is about 4 times higher than the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Russia

Schmidt was charged with murder and felonious assault in 1989 after killing a Hispanic man and shooting two others with a semi-automatic pistol during a traffic dispute.

This is a classic illustration of road rage carried to the ultimate extreme. Had Schmidt not been in possession of a weapon, the other man would still be alive and Schmidt would not be a felon.

Guns are not the best way to settle disputes in a civilized society. Guns only make the situation worse most of the time.

Funny thing is before 1989 this man was a law abiding citizen. So gun laws don't work? Fine. Is there anything we can actually do that won't result in us living in a police state? I think the real question we need to be asking is why are Americans so violent? All these people with fragile psyche gathering weapons for the coming apocalypse. Nothing to worry about there.

Anyway they are looking into how this man aquired his weapons, likely just like everyone else out there who can't pass a background check. He had someone who can pass a background check buy them for him. Its called a "straw" purchase. My favorite is how the gun rights people always say that "but its illegal to participate in a straw purchse." as if the simple fact that it is illegal is stopping it from happening. While technically it might be illegal but under current laws it is almost impossible to prosecute.

Ron B-2757074

davey,

Prior to gun proliferation there were swords, crossbows, maces, halberds, etc. Rulers did not allow the peasant class to own these weapons so that it would be easier to control them through force.

Our rights to bear arms is necessary to retain our freedoms. Start banning certain weapons and magazines now, under the guise of public safety, then where will it stop? A disarmed, or severly disadvantaged population is eaiser to control through force or even the threat of force.

I am tired of this BS. The 2nd amendment is not a license to stage an armed uprising against the government. Also please if the sad day ever came where our own government used its military force against its own people, will there be a senario in which the population is not at a severe disadvantage? Unless your militia is one of those that has a fleet of armored vehicles and attack helicopters.

People like you act as if there will be some clear signal that will mark the divide between freedom and tyranny and once the government goes beyond that then all patriotic gun owners are going to rise up and fight. You act like your ownership of a gun would somehow impede the march toward tyranny. But no, what will happen is people will slowly give thier rights away in the interest of feeling safe. I am not taking about gun control either, I am talking about the stuff already happening, things like the Patriot Act and the AUMF. Where is the widespread outrage over these laws?

No on the day the government comes for you and your guns you will be alone and far from being a hinderance to a tyrannical government, your ownership of guns will just make it that much easier for them to paint you as a "criminal" or "terrorist". You neighbors might look on and somewhere in the back of thier minds they might think "this can't be right." but ultimitely they will reconsile it by telling themselves, "The government wouldn't be coming after them if they were doing something wrong."

That is the way it will happen, the scared little people will slowly give thier rights away so they can feel safe at night. By the time anyone gets a notion in thier heads that they don't like the way things have turned out it will be to late. Using guns at that point would actually help the tyranny by giving them a perfect excuse to brand you a menace to society and send you away to some secret prison somewhere.

Well, when you can show up to a gun show and buy these guns without a background check or ANYTHING else then no wonder criminals end up with guns.

All FFL dealers have to run background checks weather they are at a gun show or not.

Dowhatisright76, So he bought from somebody that wasn't an FFL dealer...

Yeah well, not all are FFL dealers. And who says they follow the law? We need methods to trace weapons back to the people breaking laws, so we can put them out of business. A gun registry and licensing for example, and thorough record keeping, along with micro-stamping and other measures. Its time to close every possible loophole there is. Its time to lay down the law.

MoreJ- Dose serial number tracking ring a bell. If the guns were originally sold to a licensed FFL dealer than law enforcement would already know the original seller of the firearm. I personally never dealt with a dealer that did not follow the law.

Darren- That is what i am saying. Equipment of that amount likely did not come from a private seller. Most likely black market.

Moron Silver please tell us who is a muslim leader you must know something that the CIA and FBI doesn't know since they check all of the senate, congress , and major politicians in Washington. You show that you are metally handicapped so you have no business owning a gun.

Ps; also shows you are uneducated not knowing how to spell muslim. Are you a KKK member or a Neo_Nazi as this guy was.

National Socialist Movement? RNC? NRA? There all "radical" organizations with little care for ordinary Americans and their values. "Silver" posting above me is probably a member of all three and he is so scared of our President he can't even spell Muslim!

The Great majority of the people that are buying these Ar 15's and guns like them are these Neo-Nazi that are afraid of the Black taken over. They join militia's and really talk big and say they are going to take over the Government, any time we elected someone they don't like, they are gonna take there country back. I am a 57 yo white man and I think we took out and my country back in 08 and kept it in 12, Now all we have to do is out vote the Tea party and Rep's out of control of the House and keep them out of the senate, then we will have taken our country back. I wish these crazy Gun nuts would all take there guns, move to Tx and leave the Union. We will close the boarders off tight and Mexico will take Tx back with in a year. I am sick to death of these back ward people saying they want to leave the union and be there own country. I say good reddens. The first thing they well do is ask the USA for aid. You dumb asses should be careful what you wish for, you might just get it. Then what?

Just go google "private gun sales" and add your state name to the search... there are literally thousands of forums and sites around that promote NO QUESTIONS ASKED private sales.

To make the claim that criminals break laws to obtain weapons is flat out ridiculous. Why bother breaking the law when you can find what you want online and conduct a private sale?

silver-594739

Gun Control, Hows that working for you oh great and powerful muslam leader of America?

Don't you just love retarded comments? It makes Newsvine so entertaining at time.

Selling a gun to a convicted felon is already illegal. No dealer worth the name will risk losing a very expensive license or the time in prison. Knowingly selling, Providing or procuring a fire arm for a convicted felon is also a crime. Whether it is a private sale or by a dealer. Who ever sold or gave him the guns needs to be charged with the crime and the existing laws enforced. We don't need any more laws to not enforce, we need to use the laws already on the books. A famous out law of the past found he couldn't get the guns he wanted even on the black market. So he broke into National Guard Armouries and stole the guns he wanted. The outlaw was Clyde Barrow. The weapon was the Browning BAR. Make the "assault weapon" illegal and the criminals will just do the same thing.

No background check guns shows ARE the black market. Our dummy lawmakers, always trying to please an interest group, write self defeating laws on every subject in the books. They never see to an objective as stated. The hidden agenda for the interest groups always dominates the bill while the media concentrates on telling the public about the Title on the bills being voted on. Bet if someone studying the sheer weight of laws enacted in the last 60 years in every country and compared them, the pile of paper in the US is 3 times heavier than the next country. Our society has no critical thinking ability anymore. They think passing a law equals job well done. So we pass tons of laws (literally, printed they weigh tons) and we have the most dysfunctional society on so many levels we have become the laughing stock for the world. The ATF is actually forbidden to inspect dealers more than once a year, no surprise inspections at all. This was put in a spending bill years ago by a congressman shill of the NRA - a bill provision none of the other congressman noticed while voting to pass it. Other similar restrictions were allowed in so a congressman here or there could get fed money for some local project in his/her home district. After 235 years this system has gotten so corrupt they could not agree that water is wet. TJ may say we need a re-do on this.

We don't need any more laws to not enforce, we need to use the laws already on the books.

that would be realistic, if the NRA didn't craft language to be inserted into unrelated legislation by Republican congressmen and women (let's be honest, mostly men) that effectively neuter the ATF and prevent them from "enforcing the laws already on the books."

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Now how does this law, as written, require a private seller to know if a buyer is a felon or not?

Selling a gun to a convicted felon is already illegal. No dealer worth the name will risk losing a very expensive license or the time in prison. Knowingly selling, Providing or procuring a fire arm for a convicted felon is also a crime.

No dealer would, but private sellers are just looking to make a sale. There is NO requirement that the seller obtain information about the buyer, so your logic is flawed. I assure you this wording was done this way at the behest of the NRA lobbying arm.

Right. IF private gun sales had to register, like a car title used to register a vehicle, then the Police Department could do the background on the buyer for a fee (like registering a car). Private owners should not be expected to know how to do a background and should not be required to do it personally, but they should have to register the sale and either the buyer or seller should pay the fee to the PD to do the check and make the registration. The NRA got a law in that makes maintaining a registration list of gun transfers illegal. That law has to be reversed.

Old Dog; Citing a case of an NG armory using cheap locks 80 years ago is not relevant. They use better locks now. What is relevant is that laws the NRA shills in congress put in to thwart the good practices of law enforcement. SO it's illegal for ATF to trace gun sales. IT's illegal for ATF to inspect dealers more than once a year. IT's illegal for ATF to conduct surprise inspections. Now we learn 1% of the dealers are responsible for 40% of illegal dealer sales activity. 99% of the dealers are good guys. But 1% need enforcement on their necks but the law won't allow it. The law put in by the NRA. And none of this restricts a persons ability to legally buy what they are entitled to buy. So there is room for the pro-gun forces to help make the children safer. On the other hand, the idiots who did fast and furious need to be fired, no pensions, no retirement. Just fired, banned from working anywhere else in gubmint. A few ( the leaders who designed it and tried to cover it up) should be prosecuted.

"Criminals will get guns anyway so let's do nothing".

Sorry this doesn't do it for me.

Just when I think people are starting to get it, and then they fail . . . .

Anyone who thinks that the gun laws, new and old, will prevent criminals from doing crimes, please raise your hand.

Anyone who thinks criminals obey the law, because "the law says so," raise your hand.

Now, go back and read and define the words crime and criminal. Since many of you have both hands in the air, I took the liberty to look up for you:

Crime: 1. An act or omission in violation of public law, esp. a felony. 2. Any grave offense against morality or social order. 3. (informal) Any apparent injustice; a shame.

Criminal: 1. Implying or involving crime. 2. Pertaining to the administration of penal, as opposed to civil law: a criminal court. 3. Guilty of crime, as in one who has committed a crime.

A shorter definition: Persons or acts which are disobedient to the law.

Please put down your hands, some will think your are being a victim of a crime.

Criminals don't follow the laws. That's why they are CRIMINALS! You may write as many laws as you wish, and the honest citizens will do their very best to be obedient and honest. CRIMINALS, on the other hand, sit around and laugh their butts off at the law makers and honest citizens, because CRIMINALS do whatever they want, laws or no laws. They can get whatever they want, whenever they want, just by breaking the law. They will get guns or any other weapon anyway they can. Making a law will not matter one whit to them, they'll just ignore it (and laugh). Do you get it yet?

The answer is not more laws. The answer is catching the criminals and applying the already existing laws.

Right at this very moment in time, I know where there is a registered assault rifle sitting in locked gun safe. It's been sitting there for years, never moved except to be dusted around, and used only to pick off the occasional varmint in the garden. It has never been used to commit a crime--NEVER. The owner has never (knowingly) committed a crime of any type. He is a good honest, hardworking, responsible citizen. Why should he be penalized for anything because some evil criminal using an identical firearm has murdered, stolen, robbed, raped, or otherwise cause mayhem in the world?

QUESTION: What is the difference? ANSWER: It is NOT the firearm--IT'S THE PERSON. Use the laws to go after the criminals. The criminals are the problem, not the tools, and NOT law abiding people.

Bushwa. Look at this case. The man is busted, yes, but now the cops have a good opportunity to find each and every supplier of those assault weapons and bust them, too. If this is done consistently, publicly, the word will get out that it's not worth it and we will reduce the number of wannabe's and dealers out there. Evil will always be among us, but good men fight it, they don't say, aw, shucks, what's the use? If you're serious about opposing the practice, grow a set and back the new laws. The NRA would like for us all to think we are helpless against the profiteering of their weapons mfr. friends, but the line has been drawn. In Newtown, in a classroom of little children.

Chuck, granted that Silver there made a really dumb statement, do you have to go ahead and make another one yourself? Do you know that the individuals purchasing these despicable(Sarcasm) ARs are racist followers or did you pull that out of your 3rd point of contact? All of the gun owners I know or have ever dealt with were pretty level headed. Now you take those that sell the "Zombie"related items, they are not firing on all cylinders and the ones who think they can sell a 22 rifle for 10 times what it is worth or an AR 15 clone for $4gs, they are not in the real world.

When it comes to the individual mentioned in this story and his cache of hardware, I want to wait until all of the facts come in. I would like to know how the long the feds were watching this guy before they swooped in.

Sorry about that Chuck, I got you confused with RanDogM. But I still disapprove of your racist categorization fo gun owners in general and those who purchase ARs in particular.

What I am wondering is who gets to keep the 18 guns and the 40,000 rounds of ammo. You and I both know and as soon as this story is off the front pages we will never hear about these weapons and ammo again.

As far as where the guy got the stuff, my guess is that it is all bushmaster PRE-1994 serial numbers and record keeping back then was virtually non-existant. I was robbed once (home burglary) about 20 years ago and when I told the troopers about my 2 missing guns, the troopers did not care on whit when I tried to offer up the serial numbers. When I asked why they did not care, (I was afraid they might be used in another home invasion and I would be held to blame) their attitude was that although they could trace the manufacturer (bushmaster) they could not trace the ownership paper trail. I had to DEMAND that they take a report about the stolen guns including serial numbers, insist upon a troopers signature and then demand a copy of the report.

OUR police (nationwide it seems these days) only care about putting in their minimum 20 years and collecting their disgustingly HIGH retirement pay and lifetime medical bene's. Sounds just like our local, state, and federal politicians, doesn't it.

Never, EVER, forget people, when SECONDS count between a life and death situation and the police you can count on to come to your rescue, are only minutes to hours away, and you have to make a choice between dialing 911 and waiting till your knight in shining armor arrives, or defending your life so you can live till another day, I can guarantee you which path I am going to choose..... and GOD HELP the perp who was stupid enough to attack myself or my family.

Hey Ana @ 1.5:

How fast do you think the President can close loop hoes with slow congress? And how long ago do you think he gave his speech? It's not happen girl. And the guy in the story all ready had the weapons and the NRA/GOP will never put forth any thing that will kill the golden goose. And as the President said it's up to Congress to pass any laws and the American people to put pressure on the congress if they truly want these laws.

The Drug Lords are business people. Like the NRA they lobby Congress to make loop holes to allow Drug to plow freely into this country. I think they may have bribed the Supreme Court to pass the law that anyone can pour money into our Election. So if the NRA can buy off our Congress People, Why would you think the Drug lords couldn't. They have a lobby just like the NRA. There is nothing you can't get in this country as long as you have money. Congress could care less what happens to people as long as they can make money off it.

"Criminals will get guns anyway so let's do nothing".

Sorry this doesn't do it for me.

Eric-913730 #3.4

"Criminals will get guns anyway so let's do nothing".

Sorry this doesn't do it for me.

How about we lock up convicted killers for good instead of letting them plead guilty to a lesser charge and letting them walk after a few years behind bars.

I always wanted a Quad Bofors myself. Much more fun than Swartzeneggar with a mini gun. Not portable unless mounted on a ship. Requires lots of friends to help operate it, but plenty of people will volunteer if you let them shoot a few rounds. But if a Bofors didn't arrive for Christmas, happiness is a belt fed weapon.

I have boughten 2 hand guns at the gun shows in Phoenix...background check both times. peace

boughten?

Dave, I can help. I speak Southern Drawl.

What Royal is trying to say is he has previously purchase two hand guns at a gun show in Phoenix, AZ and was background checked in both instances, and lastly for you have a pleasant and fruitful day.

So glad I could clear that up for ya. LOL

Peace out man!

And yet you are afraid to try.

Someone steals your car and kills another with it and you go to jail also?

Yea you know what if someone steals you car I absolute guarantee that you report it. And if it happens and they kill someone 10 minutes later of course not but thank you for the comment is it clear now or did you actually think you had a valid point and we being smart. I think you thought you were being smart. Wonder do you own a gun? If you do maybe you shouldn't

how about ol' fast & furious ? Or Waco ? Excuse me i must have forgotten, democrats and republicans do as they damn please. peace

Well Ill put it to you this way then, If any of my possessions are stolen I would report it to the police. Doesn't most or Im sure you have another theory on that one right. Plus you are the last person one Earth that should have any say on what I can own and cannot. So if Im being smart? no Just sensible which is lacking in your post but then again I'm sure you will have a theory for that also.

Independent, no he did not. He got them from a woman who bought them for him and lied on the required forms, according to what has been reported so far. So technically, he got them from someone who got them illegally.

Your logic seems a bit flawed - I am not held liable if someone steals my car, gets drunk and kills someone with it. The person who stole the car, got drunk and killed someone is liable.

And while we are speaking of drunks and killing - and you can check the FBI and CDC numbers on this: more people are STILL killed each year than are murdered with a firearm. Why not ban cars? Or better yet, ban the sale of alcohol -- oops, tried that already and seems it was a miserable failure, so miserable that the "law abiding" public was actively seeking out speak-easy's so they could get drunk (and drive and kill people).

I'm also trying to figure out how a ban on "assault rifles" or rifles of any type is really going to help things since 99.9% of all murders by firearm are committed with a handgun.

NRA haters, are you also ACLU haters? Both groups share one common goal - to ensure that the rights afforded to us all are not infringed on. I actually question why the ACLU isn't more active in the anti-gun battles, they should be. I don't agree with either group's actions and ideas at all times, but I do recognize the need for watchdog groups like them to protect the rest of us from the withering effects of a few overzealous nut-cases who've managed to land a seat in some white marble building in Washington, D.C.

Would I support a limit on magazine capacity - probably, although it makes it more inconvenient for me when I go target shooting.

Would I support more stringent background checks - definitely, I don't have anything to hide.

Would I support registering my firearms at any level - absolutely NOT. If the ones who would desire total control over the general populace know where and how many weapons providing the ability to defend from a malicious government at any level (local, state, federal or foreign) then they have an easy and effective way to disarm the general populace. I took an oath over 40 years ago to " ... support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; ..." and I consider the ability and RIGHT to own a firearm potentially a requirement to keep that oath should the occassion arise.

Sorry, but Aspirin will not fix stupidity / so you are screwed.

So would you say MORE laws are the answer? This guy obviously didn't follow them in the first place, but somehow creating more seems like a logical solution to everyone?

Anybody who has an opinion different from yours is "stoopid", right Boozer?

Fact is that violent crime and gun related deaths have been decreasing over the last decade while at the same time gun ownership has been on the rise.

You can check that with the FBI if you do not believe it.

So if guns kill than should gun related deaths not have gone up along with increased ownership?

No. Less f-ing guns are the answer.

"Despite a federal law that prohibits convicted felons from buying firearms, Schmidt was still able to acquire his stockpile – though authorities don't yet know how he acquired them."

Did you even care to read the article? Nowhere did it state that he "bought" them. You're just injecting your own biases into these comments without facts.

He could have stolen them, traded them through a straw purchase, etc. Hell, we're sending Mexican drug lords guns on purpose without any means to track them, so who knows?

You think somebody just gave them to him? Maybe he stole them. Maybe he found them. Doesn't matter much to me. Still too damn many guns in this country.

Got- How do you explain the fact that gun related deaths have been going down every year while at the same time gun ownership has been rising?

The ATF has pretty much been stripped of its powers to investigate illegal gun sales so what exactly are the laws good for? Repeal the 2003 Tiahrt amendment and see if that doesn't help. Oh, and get the ATF some more people.

Do - Maybe it's because of mandatory sentencing. Or a hundred other reasons. I'll say it again - correlation is not causation.

What I do know is that guns do not decompose or somehow go away. The factories that produce them keep cranking out weapon after weapon after weapon. Day after day, after day.

We have a glut of weapons in this country...so many, in fact, that people like this guy apparently have no trouble getting as many as they want.

And if you don't think that the NRA is a shill for the manufacturers....well, then I think you're dreaming.

Repeated coloration suggests causation and certainly demands more study.

Really, do you have any idea why there has not been a war on our soil since the civil war?? Simple question. And here is your simple answer. ANY force that has ever contemplated attacking the mainland US knows it is in for a disaster. Why?? Because worldwide it is believed that EVERY american home contains at least one firearm. NO other place on the planet has as many guns per capita. Just like the cold war between the US and Russia for 40 years. It was a MAD, MAD, world.

MAD standing for: MUTUAL ASSURED DESTRUCTION

So you go ahead and you support this president and the ultra liberal left with the removal of the guns of americans and at the same time the repeal of the 2nd amendment, and let the rest of us know how that works for you.

In the meantime while those people in your utopian future have the guns and you have willingly surrendered your right to self preservation and then under some sort of executive order for population control, they subsequently line you up against a concrete wall and execute you as one less mouth to feed, clothe, and house........ myself and my family will be hunkered down somewhere FAR off the beaten path, still breathing fresh air and seeing the sun rise and set in a place your utopian type society can not find us.

Think it can't happen?? Then you need to repeat your HS History 101

Nuff said.........

The gun manufacturers will find ways of selling guns to whoever and whatever wants them for a price. . They most likely operate the black market and bet they have salesmen going into Mexico and take orders from the drug dealers.

Mike - is there no place in your mind that could be middle ground between your holocaust-style-end-of-days scenario and the almost limitless proliferation of firearms we have in this country?

Some place where we don't have to arm teachers? Some place where mental patients can't get guns? Some place where it is nearly impossible for people to amass an arsenal?

Or are you really so afraid of the government that, as a trade-off, you are willing to accept the deaths of 900 people in the last 30 days?

Asspirin. I will type this very slowly, hope you can catch up. Congress has a 12% approval rating and you want to turn the Second Amendment over to them? Hahahahahahahahahaha! Smart.

If Congress sucks, it's our fault.

Anyway...better them than the NRA....at least members of congress are elected.

Wow. I am constantly amazed by the presumed power of the NRA.. Hilarious.

"... This is proof that the laws need to change. ..." Actually it's more of a proof that the laws DON'T WORK as intended - to keep guns out of the hands of those who really want them whether they are permitted to own them legally or not. Enforce the laws you have (we don't know how he got the guns) and, yes change the laws relating to gun related criminal acts to put some serious mandatory behind-bars time on those guilty of committing a crime with a firearm. We don't need more laws, but we do need to enforce the ones we have and bolster them up to pose a real threat to the criminals who don't respect them (or you) anyhow.

Put the bottle down.

Actually, gun laws have so many holes in them, you can drive a truck full of AR15s through them.

Thats why they want to strengthen gun laws.

People still murder and steal, should we forget those laws too?

Smart telephones can track us down, know who you are calling and for how long, can tell where you are going and when you will get there, your last battery charge and how long to can use it before recharging, knows just about everything about you and has a unique password to lock and unlock... on and on, a constant "black-box" in your pocket, hands, when sleep, in the car, home or down the road.This technology is fairly cheap and easy to implement. Smart guns is something a lot of people can live with.

Unfortunately, no one can tell you that. Because it makes NO sense.

Sorry, there has been no "confirmed" director of the ATF in a decade.

Didn't Bush nominate an ATF director in 2007? Who had the majority in the Senate in 2007?

Precisely, because in their infinite wisdom, the GOP defanged the ATF to the point where it has not even had a senate confirmed director in the last 6 years. And I thought Righties were all about "Law & Order"???

In 1996 NRA push for and got a law that would stop the reseach that was on guns because they didn't like the results that it provided. The research showed that homes with firearms had more homocides and suicides than homes that didn't . The results NRA got stopped in its tracks.

Grants for causes of is ; 89 for rabies with only 89 cases< 212 grants for cholera with 400 cases, and the grant number for firearm injuries was the the big amount of 3 grants which had well over one million injuries and deaths.

All FFL dealers have to run background checks weather they are at a gun show or not. The so called gun show loophole is a myth.

Well, let that be your secret.

Gun Shows:

"Under the terms of theFirearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, individuals "not engaged in the business" of dealing firearms, or who only make "occasional" sales within their state of residence, are under no requirement to conduct background checks on purchasers or maintain records of sale"

Me:( . The difference between a M16 and a AR 15 is how many times you have to pull the trigger. That and about 700 rounds a minute.

absolute truth... all one has to do is read a blog like this one to ascertain that!

According to John Chapman an expert in defensive tactics who trains military, law enforcement and civilians the AR-15 chambered in 5.56mm NATO is Ideal for home defense as it is easy to point, has low recoil and is easy to train with. The 5.56mm round is less likely to over penetrate or pass through walls with enough energy left to seriously injure anyone on the other side unlike 00 buck from a standard shotgun. He recommends at least two 20 round mags loaded with self defense ammo at the ready. Chapman is the founder and director of training for LMS Defense.

I herd on the news that the shooter in Newtown had tried to buy guns from a dealer and was turned down.

How hard is it to figure out that he either bought stolen weapons or went through a crooked gun dealer.If somebody wants a gun or multiple guns bad enough they will get them.This man has some deep mental issues that need to be dealt with.

As gun enthusiasts, we buy & sell at gun shows all the time. The law states we must verify residence & age. No driver's license, no sale. We prefer to sell to people that hold a CHL (concealed handgun license) these people have met any requirement to own a firearm, but it is not required by law.

If the wrong thing is said in the course of a sale.... it's OFF. Any impression of illegal intent or questionable credentials and it's over.

We are gun enthusiasts and enjoy fine weapons. We are not criminals & we would hope no one would accuse us of any crimes without basis.

We are being profiled & persecuted for the deeds of others. If this was to happen to any ethnic group or "alternative lifestyle" group the media would be yelling RACISM or BIGOTS, but since we are law-abiding citizens expressing our Constitutional rights, we are being forced to pay for the crimes.

Today, we are under attack. Who will it be tomorrow? Maybe you?

I agree. Mentally ill people are typically quite intelligent, crafty and above all, extremely paranoid. Arming them is like juggling lit cigarette butts in a powder room. Both will go off at some point, the only question is when.

I don't care if he joins the NRA or the NAACP while he's in jail. Jail is where he needs to be, for at least twenty years. He is not mentally ill, but is just an evil, nasty POS that needs to be behind bars.

Liberals keep yammering about gun show loop hole. Most states require a background check for gun show sales the same as if you bought it from a store. Most weapons used in crimes are stolen in burglaries of homes and businesses or from the police. The theives know that most cops keep their rifles in the trunk of their cars. There was a whole rash of thefts from police cars recently.

A felon does not care what law the government passes they will get a weapon one way or another. They are not the brightest bulbs or why would a covicted felon enganged in non violent criminal activity, such as counterfit goods, take the risk of a harsher penalty for possession of firearms.

you "speak" from experience, I presume Mike?

SPAM