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Subscribe to RSSFly over the mock wreckage of Disaster City with a Texas A&M student drone pilot.
Randal Franzen was 53, unemployed and nearly broke when his brother, a tool designer at Boeing, mentioned that pilots for remotely piloted aircraft – more commonly known as drones – were in high demand.
Franzen, a former professional skier and trucking company owner who had flown planes as a hobby, started calling manufacturers and found three schools that offer bachelor’s degrees for would-be feet-on-the-ground fliers: Kansas State University, the University of North Dakota and the private Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, Fla.
He landed at Kansas State, where he maintained a 4.0 grade point average for four years and accumulated $60,000 in student loan debt before graduating in 2011. It was a gamble, but one that paid off with an offer “well into the six figures” as a flight operator for a military contractor in Afghanistan.
Franzen, who dreams of one day piloting drones over forest fires in the U.S., believes he is at the forefront of a watershed moment in aviation, one in which manned flight takes a jumpseat to the remote-controlled variety.
Courtesy Randal Franzen
Randal Franzen went from being unemployed to earning a six-figure salary as a drone flight operator in Afghanistan.
While most jobs flying drones currently are military-related, universities and colleges expect that to change by 2015, when the Federal Aviation Administration is due to release regulations for unmanned aircraft in domestic airspace. Once those regulations are in place, the FAA predicts that 10,000 commercial drones will be operating in the U.S. within five years.
Although just three schools currently offer degrees in piloting unmanned aircraft, many others – including community colleges – offer training for remote pilots. And those numbers figure are set to increase, with some aviation industry analysts predicting drones will eventually come to dominate the U.S. skies in terms of jobs.
At the moment, 358 public institutions – including 14 universities and colleges – have permits from the FAA to fly unmanned aircraft. Those permits became public last summer after the Electronic Frontier Foundation filed a request under the Freedom of Information Act.
The government issues the permits mainly for research and border security. Police departments that have requested them to survey dense, high crime areas have been rejected.
Some of the schools that have permits have been flying unmanned aircrafts for decades; others, like Sinclair Community College in Dayton, Ohio, received theirs recently to start programs to train future drone pilots.
Alex Mirot, an assistant professor at Embry-Riddle who oversees the Unmanned Aircraft Systems Science program there, said this generation of students will pioneer how unmanned aircraft are used domestically, as the use of drones shifts from almost purely military to other applications.
“We make it clear from the beginning that we are civilian-focused,” said Mirot, a former Air Force pilot who remotely piloted Predator and Reaper drones used to target suspected terrorists in Afghanistan, Pakistan and elsewhere for four years from a base in Nevada.
“We want them to think about how to apply this military hardware to civilian applications.”
Among the possible applications: Monitoring livestock and oil pipelines, spotting animal poachers, tracking down criminals fleeing crime scenes and delivering packages for UPS and FedEx.
With U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan winding down, drone manufacturers also are eager to find new markets. AeroVironment, a California company that specializes in small, unmanned aircrafts for the military, recently unveiled the Qube, a drone designed for law enforcement surveillance.
The FAA hasn’t allowed police agencies to fly drones over populated areas – because of concerns about airspace safety, as drones have crashed or collided with one another abroad. But that hasn’t stopped some agencies from buying them in anticipation of their eventual approval. The Seattle Police Department, for example, has two small aircraft, which two officers occasionally fly around a warehouse for practice. For now, a police spokesman said, federal rules are too restrictive to use them outside.
The domestic market is so nascent that there isn’t even agreement on what to call unmanned aircraft – “remotely piloted aircraft,” “unmanned aerial vehicles” – UAVs – or by the most mainstream term, “drones.” The latter makes many advocates bristle; they say the term confuses their aircraft with the dummy planes used for target practice – or with the controversial planes used to kill suspected terrorists abroad.
Industry attracting engineers and pilots
Students at Embry-Riddle train on flight simulators that closely resemble the Predator, an armed military drone with a 48-foot wingspan, because the FAA will not issue a drone license to a private institution.
Without guidance from the FAA, Embry-Riddle has struggled with how to create a robust program that will turn out employable graduates.
“As of now there aren’t rules on what an (unmanned aircraft) pilot qualification will be,” Mirot said. “You have to go to employer X and ask them, ‘What are you requiring?’ And that becomes the standard.”
The bachelor’s degree program also includes 13 credits in engineering, so students understand the plane’s whole system, Mirot said.
Embry-Riddle recently graduated its first student with a bachelor’s degree, but those who graduated earlier with minors in unmanned aircraft systems have fared well, Mirot said.
“I had a kid who deployed right away and he was making $140,000,” Mirot said. “That’s more than I ever made. Yeah, he’s going into Afghanistan, but he had no previous military experience or security clearance.”
Mirot said many of his students aspire to be airline pilots. But with salaries for commercial airline pilots starting as low as $17,000 in the first year, they plan to start in unmanned systems to pay off their loans, then maybe apply for an airline job, he said.
The University of North Dakota, which launched its unmanned aircraft systems operations major in 2009, has similar success stories. Professor Alan Palmer, a retired brigadier general of the North Dakota National Guard, said 15 of the program’s 23 graduates now work for General Atomics in San Diego, which makes the Predator and Reaper drones used in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Engineering and computer science students, too, are in demand by the drone industry. At least 50 universities in the U.S. have centers, academic programs or clubs for drone engineering or flying. Many of the engineering students work on projects making the drones “smarter” – that is building more sensitive sensors – and studying how the robots interact with humans.
George Huang, a professor at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio, who builds drones the size of hummingbirds, said nearly all his 20 students work as researchers for the Air Force. This means they’re earning between $60,000 and $80,000 a year while still enrolled, instead of the $15,000 stipend that graduate students typically receive from their schools.
At the University of Colorado in Boulder, doctoral candidate Sibylle Walter said unmanned systems appeal to her because the results are immediate. In the past, she said, aerospace students typically ended up at Boeing or another big company and spent years working on one element of a project. Instead, she is working with her adviser to build a supersonic drone capable of flying up to 1,000 mph.
“The link between education and application is much more compact,” Walter said of the unmanned aircraft. “That translates to this new boom. You can build them inexpensively – you don’t need $100 million to build one.”
Ethical warfare?
Despite the promise of numerous civilian applications, drones continue to be controversial because of their role as weapons of war.
At Texas A&M University, which has an FAA permit to fly drones, computer science student Brittany Duncan is unusual among her peers: She’s a licensed pilot, a computer scientist and a woman. She probably could land a high-paying job for a military contractor, but she’s intent on staying in academia, studying robot-human relations, specifically how robots should approach victims of a natural disaster without scaring them.
John Brecher / NBC News
Doctoral candidate Brittany Duncan assembles an unmanned aerial vehicle in a lab at Texas A&M University in College Station, Texas.
On a recent hot, dusty morning, Duncan, 25, pulled a small aircraft from the back of a 4x4 pickup. Wearing black work boots and Dickies, she quickly assembled a remote-controlled aircraft that resembled a flying spider, then launched the aircraft – equipped with sensors and a video camera – over a pile of rubble to practice capturing footage.
At her side was Professor Robin Murphy, her adviser and a veteran of real-world unmanned aircraft operations, having flown over the World Trade Center after 9/11, the Gulf Coast in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in 2005 and the nuclear reactor in Fukushima, Japan, after the 2011 tsunami and nuclear disaster there (although she stayed in Tokyo). She believes drones could revolutionize public safety.
“I could show you a photo of firefighters from today, and it could be a photo of firefighters from 1944,” Murphy said. “They haven’t had a lot of boost in technology. [Unmanned aircraft] could be a real game-changer.”
Duncan knows there is resistance from communities where drones have been introduced. In Seattle, for example, the ACLU argued that drones could invade privacy. But as Duncan sees it, this makes her work even more relevant.
“That’s the most important thing to me – that people understand good can come from drones,” Duncan said. “Every technology is scary at first. Cars, when they went only 6 mph, people thought there would be a rash of people getting run over. Well, no, it’s going slow enough for you to get out of the way. And it’ll change your life.”
Duncan said she considers the implications of working on machines that are for now mostly used for war. Despite conflicting reports on civilian casualties in drone strikes, she’s convinced that unmanned aircraft offer a more-ethical battlefield alternative because they take the pilot’s “skin” out of the game.
Disaster City, a giant search-and-rescue training ground in College Station, Texas, is home to a destroyed strip mall, a mock-up movie theater and towering buildings all made to be torched in the name of emergency preparedness. Clint Arnett describes how Disaster City works.
“If you’re flying a UH-60 Blackhawk Helicopter and look down and think someone has a surface-to-air missile, you’re going to shoot first and figure it out later because you’re a pilot and your life is in danger,” she said. But with drones, “(You) can afford to make sure that someone is a combatant before they engage – because you don’t have your life on the line. It takes your emotion out of the equation.”
While that debate continues, the Department of Defense is showing no loss of appetite for drones, despite the drawdown in Afghanistan. This year, it plans to spend $4.2 billion on various versions of the unmanned aircraft, 15 times more than it did in 2000.
For Professors Mirot and Palmer, that is evidence that their programs will stay relevant, no matter how the domestic deployment of drones plays out.
Looking ahead
There is an ironic twist to Randal Franzen’s move to climb aboard the cutting edge of aviation: When he went to Afghanistan, he learned that his assignment was to monitor surveillance video from a tethered balloon near the Afghanistan-Pakistan border – a military technology that – minus the cameras – dates to the Civil War.
From the base miles away, he monitored the rural area for Taliban activity, but mostly watched Afghans going about their daily lives. The retrained drone pilot said he found it fascinating.
“I grew up in Montana, swam in irrigation ditches, and they do the exact same thing – they’re just trying to make a living, raise some cattle and kids and do the exact same thing as everyone else,” Franzen said. There were moments that caught him by surprise – such as when he saw a man leading 10 camels through the desert while talking on a cellphone, walking several feet ahead of his wife, who was dressed in a full burqa.
Now home in Colorado, Franzen figures he’ll take at least one more far-flung military assignment as he waits for the domestic drone market to open. This time, though, he’d like to put his newfound remote flying skills to better use.
“I had three offers yesterday to go back and do the same thing for three different companies,” he said. “I talked to them about flying. I’d rather pilot something. I’d like to go play with something cooler.”
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Leave a Comment:
These pilots will be replaced by computers as technology advances in the near future. They might be able to land a job monitoring some of the computers.
How many pilots do you need? Unless we are thinking in replacing the whole army with drones!
That actually would be nice!
I'm laughing at your ignorance when I should be crying. You are a fine example of the failed public school system. Good thing for you they have Internet in La La Land, because your 1/2 bubble off plumb.
Well that's comforting....(rolls eyes)
Boy! You are early insulting people. If I am an example of ignorance in Public Schools, you are an example of what is WRONG with people in this country: Instead of explaining things, resources to insult and name calling, thinking that nobody else is worthy.
I go back to my bubble if you back to the place where people like you exist. Think: Heaven for flies!!!!
Yes, because ad hominem attacks are the basis of rational arguments, right?
What's next? A class on the New Progressive Constitution? THIS IS WHY OUR 2nd AMENDMENT IS NECESSARY!
I hope they start the domestic drone program by using it to patrol the border with Mexico.
It's good to see that someone is profiting from our loss of liberty in this brave new world.
I hate poachers but the thought of thousands of drones whirling around spying on all of us all the time seems awfully 1984'ish, even if it is done by civilian companies versus the government. That sounds terrible, I hope that never happens.
@ Ranman87 Yay! Fallacy check! I enjoyed that.
@ lee Benjamin Franklin written that the Constitution was just for beginning of the New Country and one should be generated every 10 to 15 years. The Constitution when created was nothing more than a rewrite of 12th century Magna Charta.
@ max They have been using drones to patrol our border for almost a decade.
Unmanned vehicles are becoming more and more popular for actual practical purposes than killin bad guys and peeking in your windows. I am excited to hear about these programs becoming available.
America leads the way again! Congratulations to all in the Drone technology field.
I would take this as a grain of salt and do more research before jumping in. Private contractors working with the military in a war zone will always pay good. Hell, even truck drivers are easily making 80-120k tax free over there.
This should bother every American citizen. Sadly, the majority of Americans are too stupid to realize the danger in this.
The program will not be used for the borders. They will say it is but its only a cover. Open your eyes. It's going to be used on us, the American citizens.
Yeah, teaching people to fly drones to spy on and kill your fellow Americans, what a douche.
I don't know what to say anymore. Damn Internetz
It is amazing to see US government outsourcing jobs that used to be done by low paid US soldiers to private contractors with salaries in six figures. That seems to be the only reason we wage these stupid wars - to siphon money from the Treasury into the pockets of Washington insiders who own and run these 'service' companies. US 'defense' sector (it is actually always 'offense') = biggest scam in the world.
Please explain. That sounds somewhat paranoid from my perspective.
Money before country; this is what our Congress is and what we have become. The drones will be operated by the World Government's "contractors" to make sure any Americans attempting to restore American sovereignty are held in check. There are sellouts in every country and they just buy them out with money since they print the money. This should be considered treason.
There is no reason to operate 10,000 drones here. How is a drone operated remotely going to make Americans any safer than a local police officer? In addition, how do we know that American citizens will be operating the drones as well? Sounds like one way to make more people unemployed if you are going to cut back on the police force as a result.
smittg:
Obama and Assad think the same! These drones will be used for spying (and killing) Americans....
It will start with patrolling the borders and tracking forest fires, but will slowly and steadily morph into an all-country surveillance program where you could be watched and tracked at any time. I find it interesting that Roe V Wade is based on a constitutional "right to privacy", and yet in no other areas of life (and law) do we seem to have this same sacred right to privacy. Cameras are in stores, parking lots, intersections, etc. The administration just sold their mailing lists to leftist activist groups. Gun owners are pinpointed on a map....
My question is simple... Do we or do we NOT have a constitutional right to privacy?
Drone On! ... Privacy ... What Privacy ? ... Lol ... just a buzzzzz word used to imply something that is becoming non existent as technology pushes the envelope ..
You don't really believe our forefathers thought we should be protected by a Constitution with a Bill of Rights do you?
Just imagine ... one day soon you'll look up & see a bee or a dragoon fly sitting looking in your window wondering if it's real or a drone spying on you .. and of course, next they will become "Killing Machines" ... oHHhhhhh I forgot ... they already are .. we use them daily to destroy our adversaries ..
I want my property to be made a "No Fly Zone" ... I guess all of us will need to own SAM's just to defend ourselves ... maybe mini SAM's will catch on to defend your home .. "Drone Killer" for your home ..
STOP the insanity .... before you destroy everything that this country stood for ....and humanity as well ..
In your imagination Obama is waiting for Drones to kill Americans. Don't you know if that was his intention he could use F16's and every other weapon the military has currently available to him. You know those weapons that an armed group of people will stop with their assault weapons so they can take over an intrusive government, as they imagine it also.
lee @ post# 1.19 Please tell all of us where you got your information.
The use of drones is a cowardly way to fight.
The people who have contol of the drones in America, will have control of the new world order they are seeking.
This actually sounds like a really fun job. Makes me want to rethink my choice of college when I get done with my 2 year degree. :p
The article seems to leave off a few other possible applications; such as, spying on citizens, arming the drones, and disbanding Constitutionally provided peaceful protests. One invisible and unseen drone should be able to control large populations. Law enforcement is biting at the bit in anticipation of playing god without even getting a hair out of place. That little California rolling stop you make when you think no one is around and you're the only one on the road, will land you a surprise ticket in the mail, courtesy of a drone. Hopefully someone will invent a way to remotely screw up their electronics.
Jo Ann:
You're 100% accurate. One need look no further than our "border" checkpoints, set up miles inside any U.S. border. All illegal border crossers know they're there and avoid them; only citizens who are travelling on those roads and must pass through them are the ones forced to comply with their less than Constitutional interrogations and searches.
sandmantruth:
I live in a city with a population of approximately 180,000, not the streets of big, bad Detroit and we own a police helicopter. It is absolutely overkill, expensive and annoying at 3:00am to hear this damn rust bucket swirling over and over again over my home. Just as using a drone, the helicopter is a wasted status symbol and our taxpayer funds would be much better spent elsewhere.
Bruce:
Our Constitutional rights have been lost to the New World Order.
It is true there could be and are some very good uses for drones and I'm glad to see they are trying to focus on the benefits of them. However, that doesn't change the negative aspects which are primarily invasion of privacy and spying on people. Before (not after) any licenses or rules to allow drones are okay'd privacy laws and strict restrictions need to be put in place to ensure no misuse. If this can't be done and current track records of lack privacy concerns are going to continue to be the norm then I'd have to say sorry charlie no dice and they don't need to be allowed. Until we put an end to the privacy invasion and keep handing over rights in the name of safety (ie large parts of patriot act) and have the right rules in place we will have to forgo the uses of this tech that could actually benefit us. Though I doubt this will happen but IMO that's at least how it should be done.
I agree with the other comments, why are we not using military personal to fly these? Or at very least pay a reasonable amount? 80-100K + in this case to watch a video feed? Give me a break. The private contractor nonsense is just one other reason why we have such a bloated DOD budget yet continue to get less for our money. Maybe hire the guy as a trainer but certainly have no need for 10 or 15 civilians flying these or watching video feeds at that price, and even then the military should be able to train one of theirs to become a trainer. So screwed up.
Back to the story at hand, I know probably a waste of time but I really do hope our elected ones we do what is right and get the right laws in place so this tech doesn't get abused.
It is time
I wonder how that would work from several feet in the air.
#1.2 Urban Roman: Behave yourself and don't be rude to people, if that's possible. Your insults are juvenile and unwarranted.
I find it funny somebody is going to go pay for collage for drone flying. When kids are playing it on video games now for free.
It is time:
You cannot hope or have any expectations for the government to do the right thing. Citizens have no right to privacy as witnessed by the facility built in Utah by our federal government to monitor and record ALLelectronic communications; i.e., your emails, cell phone calls, home phone calls if connected by internet, etc. For those that argue for the impossibility to sort through all that information, they are currently perfecting the software to do just that.
This is not the "land of the free" you, myself and every other school kid were/are dutifully propagandized into believing.
Oh my gawd, stupid is alive and well. First, we have somebody predicting that computers will eventually replace the drone "pilots"; uh, the drones are flown by computers now!....the "pilots" are in an office, at the keyboard.
Second, what the hell are all of you folks doing that you so fear the government spying on you? If you're that paranoid, just stay indoors....the drone cameras can't see through walls!
Debi - sad isn't? I hate to think that way too and like to hope it doesn't come to that and we can turn it around but unless we as American citizens come together and make a stand, don't see it having much of a chance in a realistic sense.
@kaybeetoys, I'm not a paranoid person at all. I just know how Obama works and these are baby steps. What I laugh about is the double standard.
Obama just announced that he is sending $155 million dollars in aid to Syria. US tax dollars being thrown away. This is something Obama & the left criticized Bush for doing. I remember during the 2008 campaign Obama saying we have problems that need to be dealt with at home in the criticism towards Bush.
Yet somehow all we hear is silence on the left when Obama is the one throwing away our money, money that should stay here to help with our problems. Silence from the left with this drone issue too.
spider:
I don't know what is worse; your ignorance or the government. Educate yourself and become part of the solution instead of the problem:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2007/0706-seeing_through_walls.htm
At present, there are many problems with this technology, both physical and sociological.
These drones/U.A.V.s/flying cameras, etc., whatever one wishes to call them are being flown by young foot soldiers, that are earning nowhere near the salaries quoted in the article, given to civilian contractors. (I even have two small helicopters I bought in the local mall for my grandson and grandaughter to play with, and they are good at it.) The thing about these small units is they have such a short range, and air time endurance/weather endurance is very limited, as opposed to the large "killer" drones emplyed by the CIA and our military services, which are more like small to medium sized aircraft. A big problem outside of the exorbitant cost of the units and the contractors, is they take two people to operate them, not including the support staff to monitor every aspect of the flight, both electronically, and personally. One to actually do the flying, the other to man and control the video units. Nowhere is there an individual with a rotating neck/head to actually focus their binocular vision on possible collision possibilities, sitting in a cockpit to watch for other flying objects.
Right now, I'm waiting to hear of a mid air collision between one of these pieces of hardware/software and some civilian airliner, causeing massive loss of life. The government, in its infinite wisdom, is supposedly working on this problem, by limiting the airspace for civilian planes, all in the name of "National Security." Of course, it doesn't affect them, as they have the FAA declare "No Fly Zones" whereever they happen to be. Planes are not allowed anywhere near those bigshots, except MANNED, and armed, U.S. military aircraft.
This is an ongoing problem with our "national" leadership. They seem to think technology can defeat any enemy. One thing they constantly overlook is the ingenuity and deviousness of human kind, especially when it feels threatened. Look at the problems in every war in the last decades. The bigshots in Washington came up with all kinds of "smart" bombs, fighter planes with no guns, various other technology. In every single case, they have been delayed in gaining their objectives, and defeated, until they put "boots on the ground" in those conflicts.
And the enemy is just as smart as those politicians, if not smarter, in a lot of cases.
Wow! Where-oh-where to begin?
DUAL USE TECHNOLOGY
ABUSE OF TECHNOLOGY
HUMAN NATURE
ROBOTICS
CIVIL LIBERTIES
JUDGEMENT DAY (as in the Terminator movie series)
Hmmm. How 'bout something that didn't get mentioned in the article, unless I missed it. We can use drones to monitor forest fires, sheep herds, law enforcement/public safety, as well as spying on U.S. Citizens going about their lives. HOW 'BOUT THE FREAKIN' 2000 mile BORDER with our neighbor to the south?? Nope, can't go there. Too many potential Democrat voters streaming in--whether or not they ever get citizenship and therefore legally vote. Gotta continue to ignore them to ensure the completion of the demographic shift that will ensure decades if not centuries of one party rule. Nope, no perverse incentives here...
How about CIVIL LIBERTIES??? Does ANYONE on the right or left of the so-called political spectrum trust that, given the opportunity, powerful people won't abuse another powerful technology to maintain their own power? "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord Acton [www_lpboulder_com/quotes] Giving a government that knows no restraint, and does not abide by the law or the constitution to begin with now, new tools that allow it to have ever more power over its citizens, is there anything stopping an overwhelming totalitarian tyranny? You may not be paranoid, but that doesn't guarantee they aren't out to get you. Drones watching us? Wonder where the ACLU stands on this one? Civil Liberty advocacy groups, anyone? <<crickets chirping>>
How about the MOVIES??? Once command-and-control over the drones is given to networked computers, what would stop an enemy, or the computer network itself, from doing things with the drones we might not appreciate? The H-Ks (Hunter-Killers) of the Terminator series of movies comes to mind. As we increase our power over our environment and each other, do we have the wisdom (ethics, self-restraint and legal framework) to keep up with our new "toys?" Our "knowledge of good and evil" and culpability increases geometrically with each successive bite of the apple. Wonder if this is where Steve Jobs got his idea for his company's logo...
I want to have technology that helps us live, and I'm all for the peaceful use of dual-use military technology. Employing the unemployed is a laudable goal. Me thinks if you have reservations about how this technology has been used on the battlefield, you'll LOVE how it gets used on you.
@ eneagram1 - Actually, they are referring to the large courier planes... jets. FedEx and UPS have both been testing this with flights from Japan to California and Washington. They have already successfully taken off, flown and landed without any interaction from the crew that was aboard (in the event of a malfuction).
Between microwave and infrared scanners, I'm fairly sure they can see through walls, eventually if not now.
Very relevant posts by It Is Time and the Frost-man, by the way...
Yeah, they tyrany guys have a point with this one because they are out of (government) control and that is the most dangerous situation (Solent Green??) There is no imagining what corporations might do. But let me say this: When one drone colides with an airliner killing 250 Americans we will come to grips with it. Model airplane pilots know the danger to full size aircraft and carefully control their (drones, many larger than the military) aircraft away from any air traffic. A police officer/pilot, in a basement room somewhere has no clue as to the aircraft around him or in his way. There is no avoiding this it will happen, we have something like 3000 comercial flights (and thousands of general aviation small aircraft) in the air at any one time, none of these "agencies" will be able to follow those. Like the lady said, with the drone she has "no skin in the game", well those of us on an airliner have a lot of skin in that "game". Bascially this one should not happen in the US. Modelers have to fly within visual range by FAA rule. At the very least Police et all should have the same rule.
Oh, forgot: spider, your speeding ticket for doing 78 in a 65 this morning will arrive by email shortly after you get home. And yes we have the evidence....recorded of you and every other person on the road today. Might want to think about how far the police might go to raise a bit of "revenue". So basically, stick it if you think you have nothing to hide.
For those of you who travel on I-5 going South from the Canadian border towards Seattle at night just watch the sky in front of you.. You will notice a couple lights traveling in a small figure eight pattern at maybe 5000 feet. Been doing it for years now.
Oh. I envisioned the $3,000 Tiffany lamp that I ordered online being dropped on my roof.
One would think some schools would teach you how to build frequency jammers for drones not to fly over your home?
I agree! There sure are a lot of paranoid comments here...are you people smoking too much pot? ;)
What do you all have to fear from video cameras in store parking lots, malls, etc. if you're not breaking any laws? That surveillance keeps all of us safer and helps law enforcement catch crooks. What are you up to that you have to be so paranoid about?
I think the drones are a great idea. But then, I have nothing to hide.
Bryan-2698455
Please tell me you're kidding.
Spelling and grammar matter. At a certain point you lost credibility as a reliable constitutional historian. Please provide sources. The constitution is a document which lists the rules under which our government operates. It does, among other things, establish the three branches of government, establishes both houses of congress, and delineates the powers of each branch. The founders made it possible to AMEND the constitution, but they intentionally made it difficult to do. Are you saying the whole thing should be scrapped every 10 -15 years? Absurd. If something needs to be changed there is already a process for that.
kaybeetoys
If laws never changed and there was total concensus on what constitutes deviant behavior, maybe there would be nothing to worry about. That isn't the case though. The concern regarding the burgeoining police state (including the use of drones) is a concern to law abiding citizens because of over criminalization in our country. Something you do may be considered legal now, but there is no guarntee that it will remain that way.
Some additional reading:
http://overcriminalized.com/
http://voices.yahoo.com/crisis-america-over-criminalization-11106.html
http://www.nationalreview.com/bench-memos/337727/over-criminalization-and-tragic-case-aaron-swartz-ammon-simon
Swallow:
They won't even need email. They'll just program it to your implanted chip. No excuses that you never received it.
It's these kind of "Pollyanna" "I never do anything wrong" people who are enabling the destruction of our Constitution.
A friend of mine says he doesn't care if the government listens to his cell phone conversation because he doesn't have anything to hide. I say the government has no business listening to my phone conversation; whether I have something to hide or not.
kaybeetoys, you better go answer your phone; I think Peter Pan is returning your call.
"The story goes that as Benjamin Franklin emerged from Independence Hall at the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a woman asked him, “Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”.
Mr. Franklin replied, “A republic, madam – if you can keep it.”
Can we keep it, or is it lost already?
Hello folks, Bush gave us preemptive war and Obama has given us remote controlled war. What is wrong with our society when we are bragging about killing opportunities in the help wanted section of our newspapers.
Has anyone even looked into the damage this illegal killing technology has inflicted on innocent men, women and children.
These children are innocent. They are not different from our own children.
Their lives were taken away at a very young age as part of a military agenda, which claims to be combating “international terrorism".
Who are the terrorists? Enclosed is a partial list of the children that have been murdered in our name.
The List of Names was compiled by The Bureau of Investigative Journalism
CIA Drone Strikes in Pakistan 2004–2013
Total US strikes: 362
Obama strikes: 310
Total reported killed: 2,629-3,461
Civilians reported killed: 475-891
Children reported killed: 176
Total reported injured: 1,267-1,431
US Covert Action in Yemen 2002–2013
Total confirmed US operations (all): 54-64
Total confirmed US drone strikes: 42-52
Possible extra US operations: 135-157
Possible extra US drone strikes: 77-93
Total reported killed (all): 374-1,112
Total civilians killed (all): 72-177
Children killed (all): 27-37
US Covert Action in Somalia 2007–2013
Total US strikes: 10-23
Total US drone strikes: 3-9
Total reported killed: 58-170
Civilians reported killed: 11-57
Children reported killed: 1-3
Drone Infographics
Interactive map
by Drones Team
This map details the locations of CIA drone strikes in the remote Pakistani tribal areas.
Partial List of Children Killed
PAKISTAN
Name | Age | Gender
Noor Aziz | 8 | male
Abdul Wasit | 17 | male
Noor Syed | 8 | male
Wajid Noor | 9 | male
Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male
Ayeesha | 3 | female
Qari Alamzeb | 14| male
Shoaib | 8 | male
Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male
Tariq Aziz | 16 | male
Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male
Maezol Khan | 8 | female
Nasir Khan | male
Naeem Khan | male
Naeemullah | male
Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male
Azizul Wahab | 15 | male
Fazal Wahab | 16 | male
Ziauddin | 16 | male
Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male
Fazal Hakim | 19 | male
Ilyas | 13 | male
Sohail | 7 | male
Asadullah | 9 | male
khalilullah | 9 | male
Noor Mohammad | 8 | male
Khalid | 12 | male
Saifullah | 9 | male
Mashooq Jan | 15 | male
Nawab | 17 | male
Sultanat Khan | 16 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male
Noor Mohammad | 15 | male
Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male
Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male
Abdullah | 18 | male
Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male
Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male
Shahbuddin | 15 | male
Yahya Khan | 16 |male
Rahatullah |17 | male
Mohammad Salim | 11 | male
Shahjehan | 15 | male
Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male
Bakht Muneer | 14 | male
Numair | 14 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Taseel Khan | 18 | male
Zaheeruddin | 16 | male
Qari Ishaq | 19 | male
Jamshed Khan | 14 | male
Alam Nabi | 11 | male
Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male
Rahmatullah | 14 | male
Abdus Samad | 17 | male
Siraj | 16 | male
Saeedullah | 17 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Salman | 12 | male
Fazal Wahab | 18 | male
Baacha Rahman | 13 | male
Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male
Iftikhar | 17 | male
Inayatullah | 15 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Adnan | 16 | male
Najibullah | 13 | male
Naeemullah | 17 | male
Hizbullah | 10 | male
Kitab Gul | 12 | male
Wilayat Khan | 11 | male
Zabihullah | 16 | male
Shehzad Gul | 11 | male
Shabir | 15 | male
Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male
Shafiullah | 16 | male
Nimatullah | 14 | male
Shakirullah | 16 | male
Talha | 8 | male
YEMEN
Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female
Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female
Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female
Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female
Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male
Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male
Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female
Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female
Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female
Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female
Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male
Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female
Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female
Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female
Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female
Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male
Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female
Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female
Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male
Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male
Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female
AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male
Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male
Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male
Nasser Salim | 19
All of you who support war are complicit in these children's deaths and their blood is on your hands!
War, what is it good for, absolutely nothing!
I get the hint, Lee.
Lee said:
I have a bad feeling that these drones are going to be used in a bad way...as in 1984!
@ DingleB-
Source - Me the people: One man's selfless quest to rewrite the constitution of the United States of America.
I am sorry for my grammer and spelling.
I am pleased to find someone that actually passed a political science class.
It isn't under a concept of throw away and rewrite. The argument is to maintain and revise.
I appreciate your acedemic consul. And that is a very sexy Superman outfit you have there.
Boy, we are on the fast track now. Obama is not letting any grass grow under his feet. Well, here is the promised Revenge Obama said he would do to America in his second term. Those in political Power signed something they are not telling us about but we are now under the control of this International. It seems we will get to be killed by Drones. It does not surprise me because I said the day they made our CIA impotent, is the day they begin to kill us. Fred Rustmann Jr has said that the CIA does not do Covert Operations because they fear reprisals from the Obama administration. We no longer Interrogate terrorists again for the same reasons we do not do Covert OPS. The CIA does very little at this time. Obama will not let them do their job. It is a very sad day indeed to lose the CIA.
The International wants to take away our guns so it is easier to kill an unarmed person than one who can shoot back. We are loosing America in the first 6 weeks of Obama second term. First they took our CIA and military away from us. Then they take away our 2nd amendment right away from us. Then they want to use Drones against us. They still plan on removing our Safety Net from those in need. If this was not so sad I would quote Star Wars about the Droid armies of the Trade. I wonder how much will they get away with before Americans actually Do something in the active sense in the Real World? How long will it take before Americans stop talking on line and Do Direct Action on Earth Off Line?
This is the worst thing to be imagined. I read 1984, it's not long, it's not enthralling, it's not even that amazing, but the message in the text, and the story it tells, is something that should be used as an example to prevent abuse of powers.
It's not paranoia it's called using your brain. We are naturally greedy and power hungry as humans and the last thing we need is for dirty politicians to get their hands on this kind of technology.
If we can't trust them now, or even speculate their actions now then we can't trust em ever, that's just a fact. It's not paranoia its history.
Most people in this country don't believe what the government says either. And if congress can mesh words so appropriately in bills that we miss what its actually saying. Then I can't wait for the 3:00am vote on this to slip through...
Why does King Obama need the CIA? He employs his own personal assasination team, ready at his beckon call.
"Police departments that have requested them to survey dense, high crime areas have been rejected."
What a shame.
It's time to try something new.
Place high resolution video cameras at all strategic corners to provide continual surveillance, and then have both high resolution video and radar cameras with ground links in an unmanned (but ground controlled) drone, and then when a crime is reported at a location, the high resolution video cameras can spot the crime (in playback mode) and track the perpetrators (in high speed mode) to their current location, where the police can arrest them.
Such an 'eye in the sky' would have a chilling effect on criminal activity.
What ended the vietnam war? Was it not the fact that our boys were coming home in caskets by the plane full? The problem with drone warfare is only one side bears the the ultimate cost - death. It will lead to endless warfare.
It makes me very sad to see our country becoming this. very sad indeed. What is even more sad is individuals do not take the time to analyze our actions.
Any average Laser Pointer can burn the cmos sensors and render the camera usless.
Any Balistic tip projectile can bring down one of these.
As soon as there are armed drones in the air within america's borders, they should be shot down.
As well as a chilling effect on non criminal activity; such as loss of privacy and loss of freedom.
They are already arresting people who point the laser pointers at police helicopters. Somebody needs to invent something remote and undetectable to stop the government from infringing on our right to privacy and end their spying.
Debi
"Why does King Obama need the CIA? He employs his own personal assassination team, ready at his beckon call."
If your above statement is true, we are in DEEP SNEAKERS!!! Obama has a "Secret " Loyal hit squad. Well that surely explains his utter contempt for the US military and the CIA. Someone should get the intelligence on this to confirm if it is true or not. If true both the US military and the CIA should join forces with pro- American civilian populations to fight to get America back. It is the United we stand Divided we fall principle.
He sent his "team" of assassins to kill a suspected American terrorist. Bin Laden was not arrested and taken into custody, he was assassinated.
I read one of your links, DingleB, and the topic was sodomy and other private, consensual sexual acts. First, it's the CONSERVATIVES who want to control our bodies and our personal lives. Second, laws will change over time. But in the course of a generation we are not likely to see much change. If anything, our laws allow increasing openness and freedom (i.e. laws allowing gay marriage.)
LOL I'd rather be considered a pollyanna than a paranoid schizophrenic. My phone isn't ringing. You're hearing things again. Or maybe it's a drone!
A paranoid schizophrenic has intermittent time spans of clarity and can be helped with the use of medication. Pollyanna lives in her fantasy world 24/7 with no hope of ever seeing the world as it truly is.
Btw, Pollyanna does have a middle and last name; van Sheeple. Baa baa.
Clarity is not 100% trusting your government. If you do then you really really need to educate yourself. There's a difference between paranoia and awareness. Caution even.
paranoid huh?
why the @!$%# cant i post a link to an article
the article beside this was about the gov been able to attack US citizens without having any information that they plan to attack America...Al Sharpton laughed on some show saying they can have their guns cause with have drones...
DO we really need 30000 drones? Really 30000? What does this country need that many for? Even the Mexican border where most are needed. What the heck are they gonna watch with 30000 drones? This country seriously needs to look back to when and why this country began and get back to those ideals. Not this progressive B.S.
The government is on board with it and loves the drones, until the enemy develops the technology and uses it agains US. Suddenly, there is a problem.
Today, it's jobs flying a drone around USA cities and around the world. But these jobs won't last.
With the rate of Artificial Intelligence develpment, it's just a matter of time before some madman mates a drone with an artificial brain. 2025? 2050? 2075? It's not that far away. This isn't tin-foil hat stuff. This is a real possibility. GPS, avionics, robotics. Robotic helicopters already fly and have done so for decades.
Don't worry, in the very near future all these jobs will go to "undocumented workers" under the new immigration reform. It will give illegals the chance to show their patriotism.
Oh Please! give it a break! The last time I looked, Universities and colleges were there for everybody that WANTED to get an education!.
If illegal aliens wish to pursue an education, all the lazy US citizens that do not want to pursue a degree in math and science deserve to be REPLACED, either by drones or illegals.
IRESPOND, you seem to imply that the only education worth having is math and science. History might help a little, with a dose of morals and ethics, and maybe a little common sense. Drones are the first step to a police state. Its amazing how Americans are so obsessed with their 2nd Ammendments right but don't have sense enough to see how the real slippery slope argument applies to privacy. In 10 years, the only liberty will be to liberty to have a gun and that won't do a lot of good in a police state when your every move is under surveillance.
@ Irespond agreed. I am in the middle of my computer science degree and I am maybe one of 3 US citizens in all of my advanced classes. I am embarassed but it keeps me motivated because apparently we are representing our whole country.
@ James I wanted a History major (I really enjoy History) but the job market sees the focuses of the degrees you have mentioned as lazy and oversaturated.
I know I cannot speak for the entire country, this is just my personal experience of being an old f**t trying to finish my degree.
Does this mean we will no longer have a corporate state where the corporation is "Big Brother?"
Sorry, but providing illegals opportunities to go to school and jobs isn't fair to the citizens and those who entered this country legally.
Big Brother is watching you!
Irespond,
Illegals need to pay out of state tutition. Why should an illegal take a spot of a Natural Born US Citizen, and then pay in-state-tutition because they lied on the applications about their legal status?
A single shot shotgun will bring one down...........
With one hell of a choke! Considering how many clay pigeons hit the ground unmolested I wouldn't consider a shotgun a factor.
Please don't feed the trolls
Funny how you keep using words that portray sexual induendo and violent sexual offenses there, DICK.
Maybe you can't hit YOUR clay pigeons. But I rarely miss.
@ Dick
Corporate State and Big Brother government are one in the same. The highest bidder always gets their way.
Dick-2100935
Weren't you just criticizing someone else for having a wild imagination??
Bryan, I'm with you on the "adult learning" thing. It DOES get a little more challenging with the passage of time.
I think what James was getting at is PERSPECTIVE that is gained by a well-rounded ongoing education, including questioning everything you learn, and yes, having seen a thing or two over YEARS of adult life. A couple of paraphrased quotes on history.
George Santayana: "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them."
Karl Marx: "If you can cut the people off from their history, then they can be easily persuaded."
The Libertarian Party of Boulder Colorado has 1313 "Libertarian Quotes" on its website [www_lpboulder_org/quotes] you might like as well.
Heard tell Cassandra's Curse was that no one believed her in her madness, but she was right about the impending doom of Troy...
Finally, a Handicap Position!
@studio steve, Good notice!!
irespond, you're handicaped in the head, ever hear of H1B? It's where we are to cheap to Educate and Pay the Educated people, so we give this immigration status to people already Educated. They come here for a while but don't stay. Why? We don't pay Educated peopel as well as the rest of the world. If you don't believe it, fact check it. You will also find out that is why Republicans want to destroy Education Funding and chip at it every chance they get.
Now the only thing we have to worry about is a terrorist telling the instructor that it is not neccessary that I learn to land the Drone.
Might trigger a demand for camouflage netting to string over your backyard, too.
The way these drones are progressing, becoming simpler to build, & are expected to start showing up more commonly in the sky, how long will it be before the 1st guy builds one in his garage, fills it with sufficient explosives, & remotely blows up something or someone? You can fly one of these things low enough to where it won't be picked up on radar. Believe me, someone is already thinking about it out there.
Oh yes, that could happen, but to do a lot of damage, it would have to be a larger size model drone. However, they could use something that would start a fire, which would or could cause a lot of damage.
Or it is quite simple to rig a remote control car or ATV or boat and drive it into a school and blow it up. Drones are not so scarey when you start to think about them not as purely weapons of war.
True, but I'm not thinking of someone targeting a school or other mass attack scenario. I'm thinking of the chance of someone targeting a specific individual. Someone with a personal security detail to keep attackers on the ground at bay & a security cordon to prevent ground vehicles from approaching too closely. Someone who makes frequent outdoor speaking appearances would be very vulnerable to a remotely piloted aircraft flying below radar. It wouldn't need to have a large explosive payload, either. Just enough to kill one person or destroy a single car. I'm not mentioning any specific individual as a hypothetical target of such an attack, but I'm sure there are unfriendly people in the world, some within in our own borders, that are thinking along the same lines right now. And with technology progressing at its current rate, it will only be a matter of time before someone tries it.
So FCC says 10 thousand.
I got news 400 dollars worth of electronic equipment and one can down those flying drones. Where will all the spectrum come from? One does not print Spectrum like money; it is a finite resource. They all operate on spectrum so they can all be jammed.
So this ties in with waht you are saying. IRAN took over one? so how hard is it? simpler than most think.
I would look at another area of education..
Johneurope, No Iran didn't take over one, the US gave them an obsolete model, filled with false info. Part of a mis direction plan that is working. Surprised you didn't know that.
But yes, it is simpler than most, and would be hard to trace the jammer. But a lot more fun shooting them down, I would think. If everyone is correct, we all may have a chance at one or the other.
I hope someone comes up with a free app to download to our phones that will jam drones and crash them to the ground or send them back to the controller and crash them there.
Great, now all girls can be America's next top model and the boys can fly model airplanes. Reality check anyone?
I imagine you as the guy who said "a cell phone, that can call other cell phones, at any time, at any location? never going to happen."
Not long before the government requires cameras in every room in your house!
@lee, they don't need that stuff, got a cell phone, ccomputer, credit card (even a simple store account), insurance, take a pole, own a pole or dance on a pole. They already know about you. I guarentee you that the way Herbert Hoover did business did not go away, it just got enhenced and is easier to do now a days. Google has such good connection with the US Government I bet they sleep togather and will know about me saying this in about 10 seconds after I hit send.
GM 6dogs, you are correct, unless you live off the grid in a cave and pay cash they more than likely know what hand you wipe with.
Finally, a career path for all those people who spend their lives playing video games !
And a gay in every bed too! After all they push that PC @!$%# in everyones face already.
Put down the bong and stop listening to John Stossel.
Fox News is doing a great job making half of America freaking paranoid.
this makes me sick.
If you voted for Obama, you should have a drone assigned to you, you look suspicious. Why aren't you getting up and going to work? How did you buy that new car when you don't even have a job? Are all those kids on your front lawn yours? Drones have infrared to track your night-time activities. Oops.
AaaahhHH, real life Starwars at last. Let dust off my Light Sabre and load in a new Duracell.
Urban, You think Obama invented Drones? Wow. As long as you right wing nuts keep focusing on Obama you miss the point, it ain't Obama, he is gone, it is out of control corporate greed and all power hungry politicians, both parties, that you have to worry about, open your eyes and just think for a second. Then again if your agenda is nothing more than to spew hate for Obama just keep doing the stupid stuff you are doing and we will continue to dis your posts. Got any ideas? Probably not.
wow
with all the killing going on
do we actually need to train our kids so early on sneeky ways of killing others?
what will these kids do the first time they kill innocent people
i bet the government never even gave it a second thought
we need to tell our government figure out other ways without killing apperantly we need to send our government officials out on point so they can get a real life feeling of killing instead of a movie theater view
that is fu cking sadsadsad
What drone ever killed an innocent person? They were collaborators.
No you are sadsadsad, as you put it. I want you to tell me one thing. What were you saying when GWB/ Cheney lied through there teeth to invade Irag. I'll tell you where you were doing and what you were saying, like the other 99.9999% of the people of this country. You were chomping at the Bit and yelling Kil, Kil, Kill. Don't tell me you weren't. You were spoon fed that lie and believed that crap about WMDs just so Bush could cover the south east border to keep Al Qaeda from escaping to Iraq. Do you know that Iran is solidily geographicaly positioned between Iraq and Afghanistan? You didn't know it than and you didn't know it until I just told you right now. You are nothing but a troll and a stupid one at that.
6dogs , And you think Obama is telling us nothing but the truth. Typical lib resorts to name calling.
Little presumptive there 6dogs. Where did you even get the idea that your response relates to anything Keith said? It really did sound like you were just spouting information out of nowhere just to sound smart...which failed. More coffee is needed, me thinks. And then assuming that you know everything about Keith. Pretty presumptive.
stonepipe2
You mean aside from any woman or child in the immediate vicinity of said collaborators?? And aside from the occasional mistaken identity of the target?? Do you actually listen to the news??
6dogs
99% of the people in this country were not "chomping at the bit" to kill in Iraq and if I had to guess, based on the statements made here by Kieth, it seems a safe bet that he was not one of them.
What is truly sad, sad, sad, is morons who have to make up a bunch of BS so they have an excuse to rant and rave like lunatics.
Great, I can see the diploma hanging on the wall now "Bachelor of Science in Drone Spying and Killing". Colleges and Universities are to further one's knowledge in science and liberal arts not in killing, spying and flying remote control war toys.
Collages and Universities are in the educational business of of supply and demand of what the needs of this country and businesses need today and tomorrow. Things come and stay a while and than go. At one time we needed computer program writers badly. They were mwking good income, but the education system more than filled the bill so well that these people are a dime a dozen and aren'e making what the industry promised. These same under paid people wrote the programs for the Drones. Design is another that has several direction one can go in, everything from a toilet seat to the shape of the drone to the Space Station.
That actually sounds awesome! I would hang that on my wall.
What??? Do you have any idea what you are talking about??? Any good programmer can make six figures. I don't know what planet you live on.
advanced education is for whatever you want to learn about! you can get a BA in textile engineering (let's be real: sewing), grateful dead history, pop culture, etc. doesn't mean that is going to lead to a lucrative career but if you're willing to pay 100K for that degree, you should be able to study whatever the heck you want.
The crowded skies just got more crowded. Marvelous.
And all the FedEx and UPS drivers will be "restructured" and unemployed. Brave new world. (I really like our UPS guy--I'll bet a drone wouldn't be nearly as thoughtful.)
These Evil killing machine drones are now going to be turned on the American people. The future is bright.
Just like the evil helicopters, airplanes, motorcycles, cars and trucks were. If only someone opposed those becoming used for the public we would be so much more a free and safer populous right? But never take away my AR-15!
First it was the Black Helicopters. Now its Drones! It looks like most everyone has taken their paranoid pills. The paranoia is running deep here today. Some of you people need to get a life.
Ok Smitty, we will just stfu and when you start screaming we will say, oh my, maybe we should have given this some thought before it happened, typical.
Oh the horror of it all. All the teeth gnashing and breast beating being done over a drone. Just shoot the darn thing down when you see one. Sooner or later they would quit using so many of them.
Lolz!
You'll never see it. They fly high with high powered cameras and they are Quiet. Not like a jet liner. If it was easy to shoot one down more would have bitten the dust already.
Keep pretending Mary.
"we'll never see them" lol as if.....
They use high power cameras... to watch the guy 400 yards away as they hover right above you.
10,000 is alot. People will see them. And they will be shot down eventually. Not only that but they will start flyin patterns, people recognize patterns.
So now you can take a huge loan and be in debt the rest of your life to take Drone Killing 101.
Isn't the military supposed to provide this training?
The Drone is a CIA operated program. IF it only took 2 years to just to educate a train a soldier to do the job that would cost less or would it? First of all you would have to have a school with all the equipment in place, an education plan + an instructor(s). You than have the expense of operating tha building (which would probably have to be built), Than since the soldiers are enlisted you have to pay them, feed them and house them while they are in school. Not forgetting you have to pay their transportation to the school from where they come from and transportation to where they will be assigned.Also you would need support people to take care of the needs like food, shelter and cleaning supplies and guidance. I perceive it cheaper to let a person to get their need Education at their expense (even if we have to float them the money for later payback, a Government Education Loan) and than hire them.
Big Brother's future eye-in-the-sky. George Orwell's novel isn't so fictitious after all, only 1984 missed the mark by at least 30 years+. Coming to a reality near you. ps; didn't this current regime propose a civilian standing army? For what I dare ask?
You need to read the Military Comissions Act of 2006. To see that even if you take up arms in defence of this country the Government can classify you as a Terrorist. Your standing Military Forces are that of the Reserves and National Guards. FYI it was signed by GWB. Definition and Assumption are 2 different things. These so called States Militias are under the Assumption not the Definition.
I've been practicing shooting moving objects at long distances for about 20 years with various caliber rifles, these will be fun to shoot down.
Prepare for large fines or prison life. Destruction of property is frowned upon in the U.S A.
From 100 to 500 yards away I'm not to worried about being found.
A life living underground, hiding from the bogey man and shooting at the sky. Good luck with that.
Maybe you could build an unmamned drone gun to shoot down flying drones...
Ummm.... from what I have read drones can operate and live feed so high your 100 to 500 yds is kind of unrealistic. Unless of course you are riding a drone and have someone pull up next to it. YEEEE-HAWWWW!
If they are operating legaly they are restricted to 400 feet. 500 yards isn't very realistic and as an avid gun enthusiast I hope you don't plan on using anything but a shotgun.
Nobody should be shooting at an airborne drone 500 yards away with a .223 or a .308 for that matter.
Maybe you can get a small one if it is really close but trust me in most cases these we be more than high enough to evade anything you have to shoot at these. Many can cruise at several thousand feet and still send back more than enough detail of what you are doing. Not to mention most a rather quiet so finding or knowing it was there would be hard. So unless you have a AA gun or it is the aformention low and close flyer don't see many being in the shoot them range. Now jamming the signal on the other hand, that might be more plausible approach.
Yes, but once a local government buys an expensive drone, or a few of them, then the local taxpayers have to pay these salaries, and pensions, for both new operators and maintenance / drone mechanics to keep them flying. This will not be very cost effective in all but a few areas and for a few applications. If the costs come down, then so will the salaries. Also, there is the privacy issue and potential lawsuits when local operators think it's fun to fly over backyard pools with cameras. To quote a Phd friend of mine in the industry, "It’s complicated; the large drones can operate fine in IFR-only airspace, as long as they maintain the control link (problem A). But none of them can operate as an equal in mixed-use or VFR airspace, because they can’t effectively “see and avoid” (problem B). So we’re working on ways to alleviate these problems. A big problem lately is that local police units, realtors, you name it, have discovered the joys of tiny UAVs equipped with cameras, and are operating them in total ignorance of the rules. I keep waiting to read about an accident… but we don’t have coherent rules about those operations, and it will be a challenge to get agreement about them."
Look at the bright side,,,moving targets! Oh what fun we will have...a 50 cent bullet takes down a $10,000 dollar toy!
Just gotta be sneaky about it.
I'm going to keep track of how many I take down, calculate the cost/damage ratio, should be amazingly affordable.
A 50 cent bullet won't bring one down. 50 cents might get you a 22cal bullet.
Maybe someone will start shooting your cattle or your dog or maybe your car or truck. Stereo, TV, Xbox, Computer. Hey if you leave it out in the open its fair game for target practice right?
That's silly. My UAV cost lest than $1K. When I'm at 300' you can neither see nor hear me. Good luck finding me in the sky, and I laugh at the idea you might shoot me down.
Mary you have got to be the dumbest troll I have encountered today.
50 cents would buy you 30-50 .22 rounds, if not more. 50 cents would buy me 2 rounds of 7.62x39 JHP at internet bulk prices.
Get your facts straight or STFU
Frozencarbonite.... NOBODY is using any of those things (legally) to spy on law abiding, tax paying citizens.
First of all how do you know that no one is using a car or computer to legally spy on citizens. I have a feeling the FBI uses both of these things quite frequently in their work even the dog in some cases. Second you have no proof that domestic drones are or will be used to spy on citizens legally or illegally and if it is legal then it is no different than what I listed. It would seem you just want to start shooting stuff because it is new, you don't understand it and are afraid of it
This is great! Should dovetail nicely with my plans for running a training center for those interested in learning how to blow these pieces of sh*t out of the sky when they start spying on us here in the U.S. Jobs created, the feds lose their jerkwad idea for more domestic spying, and nobody gets hurt. What's not to like? And just think of the new business opportunities for manufacturing small, surface to air drone killers! Bring it on, morons in Congress... we love you guys!
I'm LOl about you guys. The chances of you bringing a drone down with bullits is extremely remote to nil. I think it was Iran that got One here a few months ago. Now just think of how many drone flights there have been in the area in the last, say 10 years. Now these guys had the equipment to do this for years. They got lucky (not skilled) one time. The Drones are still flying, only a little further out and still doing what they were doing.
You're LOL about people resisting police state? Are you just laughing at the idea of opposition or do you fully support the constant monitoring and breach of privacy of legal, tax paying citizens?
I'm a former Naval Aviator from the pre-Top Gun era. Six-figures to fly drones? Sign me up!
It's 2013, but it should be 1984. Like sheep, the American public simply sits by while yet more of our privacy gets stolen by the people we pay to steal it. Find out if your local government/law enforcement is anticipating getting this equipment and TELL THEM NO! You can also tell your Member of Congress it will be sure ticket out of office if he/she thinks so little of citizens privacy. Why is America full of sheep?
I'm serious about taking these damn things down. if they start flying them over our country, our cities, our neighborhoods. Maybe our own fleet of small, fast, remote planes able to simply hone in on these spy-drones and ram them. What part of privacy don't the jerks in Washington understand? What is it about the constitutional prohibition against unreasonable search don't these idiots get? We're fed up with them, don't give a sh*t what they say about this, and will blow these little f**kers right out of the sky every chance we get if the morons in Congress, and the President, try to allow this in our airspace.
You should research privacy laws. You have no expectation of privacy in regards to what can be seen from a vehicle flying over your property in a legal manner. You don't own the sky above your home.
Plus, you can't see a UAV like mine at all once it's above 300' or so. Good luck finding it to shoot at it.
Baja, why do you support the breach of privacy of private citizens? It's one thing to see something from the sky. It's another to go around with a camera attached to a drone for the specific purpose of watching people.
Do you not see the distinction or do you just think the government only "has your best interest in mind"?
Wake the phuck up idiot.
If you can find a way to keep it at 300' forever, you might be safe. What goes up, must come down. It has to originate from somewhere and people will pick up on the patterns.
I don't breach anyone's privacy. I adhere to the same rules as a police copter scanning for pot gardens, or a Cessna doing a low fly-over, etc. I am very careful to avoid breaking the law. If I am 300' up and I can see you in your yard, I am legally entitled to view as I wish, because I am seeing things from a perspective I am legally entitled to. You don't own the air above your home, the public does. Anyone viewing your home and property from a public perspective is legally entitled to do so. That's why you can't stand naked in the front window of your home and then call anyone who sees you a peeping tom - you have surrendered you right to be private in that moment by making yourself publicly viewable. Anyone who is capable and follows FAA airspace rules can fly over your yard and photograph it.
Of course, in the case of my UAV, this is all moot anyway. I have a small craft that can only carry a few pounds. A telephoto lens is out of the question. So really, I can see more about your yard by looking at it in Google Earth than I can with my UAV from 300'. You might want to check out what satellite images of your property are freely available on the internet - all fully legal because you have no expectation of privacy in that situation under the law. Besides, I'm too busy flying to really look and in any case most of my flights are in the mountains because that's where the scenery is. I'm not interested in what you are doing and I certainly have no interest in peeping.
But the point remains that you think you have a reasonable expectation of privacy that is not supported by law. This would be the case even if UAVs were outlawed outright. This is not new either. People just don't know.
Want privacy in your yard? Cover it. But don't go thinking that you are losing any rights because UAVs are now in the air. Read up on curtilage and reasonable expectation of privacy. You will probably be shocked.
As far as shooting me out of the sky, you might eventually pull it off, but the gunfire will draw a lot of attention unless you live in BFE. It is highly unlikely that you will hit an object 18" in diameter that is mostly empty space and moving at 40 mph. And when you get caught, you'll be buying me a new UAV, since I wasn't breaking the law but destruction of my property is illegal.
I love how these articles talk about the benign uses for drones: "flying over forest fires," "circling above traffic accidents," "providing views of dangerous situations," etc. when in reality these killing machines are targeted at the American people. Yes citizens, these are for you. To surveil, spy, and creep on your every move. And once they start putting armaments on them domestically, you'd better not go 1 MPH over the speed limit or get caught with one blade of grass out of place on your lawn. Otherwise...POW!
Look up the meaning of the word "drone" and it actually is benign.
So, that Piper Cub or Cessna 150 or Travelair that is at the county airport is secretly a Citizen killer, eh? A drone is a flying machine - with a sh*tload of different designs and uses. If the Army builds one with a weapon, then it is a military drone. If the National Park Service gets heavy lift drones built to drop slurry on forest fires, then what the hell is your problem with it? I lost a good friend from my Navy days when the wing broke off his S2 firefighting plane. If the Forrest Service had drones, and he was flying it from a van near the airport, he would still be alive.
If the universities can get drone use for civilian purposes going as a commercial concerm so much the better!
Disgusting
I've been telling intelligent kids (teens-mid 20s) who would otherwise WASTE the equivalent of 180 days a year playing World of Warcraft that they would be much better off if they learned MICROSOFT FLIGHT SIMULATOR or even the open-source http://www.flightgear.org, which is completely and totally FREE -- doesn't cost a DIME! Train for a career and have a freaking fun time doing it!
Ok? I heard China spends $11 Billion on preventing potential harm to its governmental structure. In comparison the mighty USA is currently chewing up a cool $400 Billion dollar apple pie in preserving its governmental structure. Do we really need more pie?
No ....what we need is a revolt .... There I said it .....
@ PValdes Good we now know who you are and are watching you. Just declare your home an independant country like the Singers in the 80's. I like watching tanks drive through a house.
Bryan ...watch all you want dumb azz... I am watching as well .....BTW drones,tanks,anything or anyone will have very tough time getting to my house. I kinda planned it that way...good luck to anyone who will try.
Whats wrong buddy? Did they 'took yer jerbs?'
Ha ha ....Go troll elsewhere idiot ....Just remember some of them fish have sharp teeth.