Death takes no holiday: Tracking gun violence over one long January weekend

Interactive map: A long weekend of gun deaths. Click to enlarge.

A special weeklong examination of gun violence, gun ownership and gun legislation. NBC News journalists will report across "NBC Nightly News," "TODAY," MSNBC, CNBC, NBCNews.com, and more. The conversation will also extend across NBC News and MSNBC's social media platforms using the hashtag #GunsInUSA.

It was after midnight, early on a Saturday in the college town of Moscow, Idaho, and student Jason "Cowboy" Monson was at the police station to get back his Desert Eagle .45-caliber handgun.

In McDonough, Ga., about the same time, two teenage brothers were still awake. A friend was sleeping over, and their mother had let the boys handle her .38-caliber revolver, which was unloaded. She'd gone to bed.

In South Valley, N.M., it was quiet at the Griego household as 15-year-old Nehemiah waited for his father to come home from the night shift at a homeless shelter. The son was holding his father's AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.

In the next few hours, the freshman in Idaho, one of the brothers in Georgia, and most of the Griego family would be dead, victims of three forms of gun violence — suicide, accident and murder — that are everyday occurrences in the United States.

Their deaths, and scores of others, occurred over a holiday weekend, the third weekend in January, when America celebrated the memory of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., a victim of gun violence. It also was the weekend the nation swore in a re-elected president whose inaugural address referred to guns, though he didn’t actually say the word: "Our journey is not complete until all our children, from the streets of Detroit to the hills of Appalachia to the quiet lanes of Newtown, know that they are cared for, and cherished, and always safe from harm."

San Antonio Express-News via Zuma Press

One of 91 deaths identified by guns across America on a long holiday weekend: Officers with the Bexar County, Texas, Sheriff's Office investigate the shooting death of Jesse Rosas, whose bullet-riddled body was found on the side of a road near San Antonio on Jan. 21. Police have not identified any suspects.

 


By the end of the long weekend — after President Barack Obama had spoken and the red, white and blue confetti strewn along Pennsylvania Avenue had been cleaned up — at least 91 people across America had been killed by guns. That's more than three times the number of caskets needed in Connecticut after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. These 91 people died, not in a single burst of violence over a few minutes, but spread over a three-day weekend, like an autoworker stealing an entire convertible one part at a time to escape notice.

In the aftermath of the Dec. 14 Newtown shooting, during a renewed national debate about gun rights and gun control, NBC News picked the weekend of Jan. 19-21 to examine gun deaths across America. Today and on Monday and Tuesday, we'll tell you what we found and introduce you to some of the victims and their families. We also invite you to look at our online map and to draw your own impressions from the stories of violence.

We don't pretend to have found all the gun deaths over that weekend. There is no official census of gun deaths, and it takes the federal government many months to compile national crime and suicide statistics. We drew our list from the deaths that were reported in the press, and confirmed the details with authorities in all but a few cases. If you only want to know how many people are killed by guns on an average day in America, simply divide the annual figure, about 31,300, by 365 days, and there's your average: about 86 people a day.

As part of a weeklong special report, "Flashpoint:Guns in America," NBC News charted every death attributable to firearms that we could find over the three-day weekend in January ending on Martin Luther King Jr. Day. We found that, as President Barack Obama was being sworn in for his second term, at least 91 people were losing their lives to gunfire.

Why did we find “only” 91 in three days? The main reason is that hardly any suicides get reported in the media. Suicides by gun are twice as common as gun homicides. Some homicides don't get any publicity either. Unless a killer chooses a public place, annihilates an entire family or shoots up a Wal-Mart, he might not even get on a website, in the newspaper or on TV, not on a holiday weekend competing with the festivities in the nation's capital and the Ravens-Patriots and Falcons-Seahawks games. The Griego family massacre in New Mexico was the only incident that long weekend to get significant national news attention. It also could be that holiday weekends with NFL championships are safer, with so many young men – who are statistically far more likely to shoot someone — inside instead, watching the games.

Guns by the numbers: how violence adds up

Our goal was not, however, merely to count the deaths, but to share the stories of the people who died, to see what lessons one might learn from those whose deaths usually go unnoticed, that don't prompt the president to order the White House flag to half-staff.

#####

It's an inescapable conclusion, even from our small sample, that there are many ways to get killed with a gun in America.

Based on interviews with police, prosecutors and family members in all but a few of the cases, we tallied 53 homicides where one person killed another. There were another three homicides where multiple people were killed. There were six murder-suicides, and six suicides. Five accidental shootings. Three shootings by police, and at least two by civilians in self-defense. That's 78 horrors with 91 dead. On a different randomly chosen weekend, the count might shake out differently.

You can get killed throwing your daughter a 17th birthday party, if your angry estranged husband shows up. Without a gun, you might have an angry confrontation and maybe some tears. With a handgun, the birthday girl in Grapevine, Texas, lost her mother and father in a murder-suicide, police said.

Or you can get killed buying a taco from a vendor on the street in Los Angeles, if you get into an argument with the wrong person, and that person has a gun.

Or catching a train: A bystander was killed at a Bay Area Rapid Transit station in San Leandro, Calif., when a couple of gangs started trading shots.

You can get killed spending an afternoon with grandma. Just as the president was beginning his inaugural address and talking about making children safe, a gunman in Cocoa, Fla., burst into a home before a children's birthday party, shooting to death the mother of several of the children and seriously wounding their grandmother.

Or visiting a strip club. A U.S. Army soldier from Oklahoma's Fort Sill was killed outside a strip club during a dispute over a woman.

Manatee County Sheriff's Office

James Brady, 26, was shot and killed in Bradenton, Fla., Jan. 20, as he and two other masked men attempted to rob a resident in his carport, police said.  One alleged robber, Jared Lee, has been charged with felony murder in Brady's death. Authorities are seeking a third man, Charles Jones.

You can get killed for what may seem like like a pretty good reason, if, as the National Rifle Association’s Wayne LaPierre put it after the Newtown shooting, you're a “bad guy with a gun” who happens to run into a “good guy with a gun.” There were two shootings by citizens that apparently were justified over the long weekend, including one by a man in Bradenton, Fla., who was ready with his own handgun and a concealed weapons permit when three armed robbers wearing masks confronted him and his roommate in their carport, according to police. He killed one of them, and authorities determined it was in self-defense. There also were three shootings by police officers that have tentatively been ruled as justified, including one in which an ex-con was shot dead after he threatened to kill his hostage following an armed robbery.

Las Vegas Police

Las Vegas Police Lt. Hans Walters, 52, killed his wife, former police officer Kathryn Michelle Walters, and their 5-year-old son, Maximilian, called 911 to confess and then set his house on fire on Jan. 21, according to police. Walters killed himself with the handgun as police moved in.

But as we saw last week when a former Los Angeles police officer allegedly went on a murderous rampage against fellow law enforcement officers, the “good guys” aren’t immune to the demons that trigger gun violence. Over the inaugural weekend, a Las Vegas police lieutenant used a handgun to kill his wife, herself a former police officer, and their 5-year-old son, before killing himself, according to police, just as the president was taking his seat on the West Front terrace of the U.S. Capitol on Monday morning.

You can get killed when your fists are outgunned, like the 22-year-old man who his family said was standing up for his friends in a brawl, when someone else pulled a gun and shot him dead, according to police. They were in Torrance, Calif., attending a punk rock festival headlined by a band called "Aggression."

You can become an ironic headline, like the 20-year-old man in Lafayette, La., who was shot dead about 60 yards from the Martin Luther King Jr. recreation center, on Monday, the day when Dr. King's legacy of nonviolence was being celebrated. That shooting occurred about the time the Obamas left the White House for their inaugural ball.

Or you can be ignored as just another victim of a street crime or a drug deal, barely making the local newspapers if you're killed in a "confrontation at a mobile home park" or "shot and killed in an argument in a parking lot."

#####

One of the surprises in our snapshot of gun violence was how young many of the victims were.

Oregon State Police

Kayla Ann Hendrickson, 16, was killed alongside an Oregon highway on Jan. 19, by her boyfriend, Jacob Allen Green, 24, after an argument, according to police. Green committed suicide near the California border, they said.

Twenty of the 91 were too young to buy a beer at a baseball game. There's the 16-year-girl in Oregon named Kayla, who was shot to death by the highway, apparently by her 24-year-old boyfriend, who then shot and killed himself with the handgun, according to police. The 6-year-old girl in Cleveland —  her name was Navaeh, and her family called her "Nae Nae" — who somehow got her hands on what police said was the illegal handgun of her felon father, and shot herself in the face. The 18-year-old in Baton Rouge, Terrance, who was playing with a .357 Magnum; when it went off, the bullet missed him, and hit his 2-year-old brother, Travin, in the chest.

It's hard to miss how male the victims are: Out of 91 dead, 75 were men or boys. And the men were even more likely to be the ones pulling the trigger.

There's no way to count them all, but the press accounts of these deaths are sprinkled with deadly encounters fueled by drugs and alcohol. We didn't trace the race or ethnicity of victims or shooters for this project; though research indicates that blacks and Hispanics are more likely to be involved in gun violence. But the cases over this weekend were not limited to "urban" violence, with the deaths happening in cities and small towns and suburbs across many class and ethnic groups.

Looking through the deaths from just that one weekend, one wonders how many of these deaths could have been prevented by the gun-control and gun-safety changes that are being discussed in Washington. There are no easy answers, but one can draw an overall conclusion: Because the types of gun deaths vary greatly, so the solutions would have to vary as well.

David Hemenway, a professor of health policy and management at the Harvard School of Public Health, says it will require a national mindset shift to make big inroads into the number of gun deaths, similar to the change that occurred in how child abuse – a condition once considered so endemic that it couldn’t be addressed – was viewed after new laws against it were passed in the 19th and 20th centuries.

"If it was in your safety to have a gun in the home, people in public health would try to get you to own a gun," he said last month at a forum on gun violence sponsored by the Harvard School of Public Health and the Reuters news agency. "But what evidence we have is that it's against your self interest."

Improvement in mental health efforts, as proposed by the president, might make a difference, particularly in the 12 suicides and murder-suicides. But many of the cases will forever remain a mystery.

Warwick, R.I., Police Capt. Robert Nelson, who is investigating the murder-suicide of a longtime married couple on the MLK Day weekend, said the law enforcement system is set up to find and punish wrongdoers, not determine root causes: “We don’t have clear motive, and you know, you rarely do,” he told NBC News. “… As seen around the country, when someone kills somebody else then kills themselves as a result of that, you very rarely have any clear motive.”

In the Griego family massacre in New Mexico, as in the Newtown school shooting, there still is no clear understanding of what may have driven a young man to commit mass murder. Nehemiah Griego, 15, is facing murder charges in adult court. Police say the minister's son shot his mother and three younger siblings with a .22-caliber rifle as they lay in their beds early on that Saturday, then waited to shoot his father with the father's military-style AR-15 rifle.

What about the proposal to take "weapons of war" — or assault-type weapons —  off the streets, as Obama put it? Police are reluctant to give out details of the type of weapon used in a crime, because that's the sort of fact that they can use when interrogating witnesses and suspects. You'll see a lot of "unknown" for gun type on our map, and we don't have reliable information in most deaths about whether a gun was purchased or owned legally. There are several cases in which guns were not possessed legally.

The weekend of gun violence does leave an impression that few crimes are committed with the assault weapons whose legality is being debated in Washington. We saw one Detroit homicide where a witness said the gun was an AK-47, but police won't say one way or another. And Nehemiah Griego is said to have used a .22-caliber rifle, then a .223-caliber military-style AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.

Most of the killing, however, is done with handguns that are not on the political radar, one or two victims at a time, not crimes that depend on high-capacity magazines with more than 10 bullets.

“Certainly I’m not naive enough to say that if we were to ban military-style assault rifles and if we were to ban high-capacity magazines, that we’re not going to have killings or murders," said George Gascón, the San Francisco district attorney, an advocate of banning those weapons and high-capacity magazines. He was discussing the death of Daniel Colon, 44, who was killed with an unknown weapon on the morning of the inauguration, as he was walking home with his cousin from a bar where he had celebrated the football victory by the 49ers. "All we’re saying is that we can reduce the mayhem, and we can have greater control to make sure that the people that own weapons do so in a lawful fashion.”

Accidental shootings of children may be the most preventable, when children get their hands on guns that adults have not secured.

In McDonough, Ga., where the mother was asleep, the sheriff's office says the mother had let the children handle her .38-caliber revolver earlier in the evening, when it was unloaded. Sometime in the night, one of the boys loaded the gun.

The mother was awakened around 2:30 a.m. by a gunshot.

The mother's 14-year-old son had pointed the gun at his 15-year-old brother's chest and squeezed the trigger, the sheriff’s office said. The sheriff and the district attorney haven't released the names of the boys, and say they haven't decided whether to charge the brother with a crime. The sheriff's office said it didn't consider charging the grieving mother, because her gun was legally owned.

Many gun owners say they need their guns to be at hand and ready in case of an intruder breaking in during the night. "You try to look at the science," Hemenway, the Harvard professor, said at the gun violence forum. "There's no evidence at all suggesting that having the gun that you can get within two seconds matters more than the gun you can get within 10 seconds. ... There is a huge amount of evidence that having an unsecured gun leads to all sorts of death in the family."

#####

Looking at the gun deaths across the land, on just one weekend, is a reminder how ingrained the gun culture is in America, a large part of the story the country tells about itself, especially in the way its young men find identity.

Consider Jason "Cowboy" Monson, the freshman from the University of Idaho who went down to the police station to get his gun back.

On Friday, just before our weekend clock began, Jason's roommate spoke with his resident adviser in the dorm, saying he was afraid because Jason was keeping his Desert Eagle handgun under his pillow.

Jason was raised on a small horse farm in Middleton, Idaho, hunting and fishing, playing football for a Christian school. He was raised around guns. Jason's father is a county sheriff's patrol sergeant, and his mother is a former Boise police officer. (His parents did not respond to a request from NBC News for an interview.) Jason won a national speech competition with 4H, and was studying communications. He was also in the Air Force ROTC and hoped to serve his country. He had a new girlfriend and a sense of humor, and posted a lot of funny stuff on his Facebook page.

His online summary of himself was unassuming: "im a total cowboy. I hunt cowboy mounted shoot and drive an old ford diesel. Ive broken several bones and most recently chainsawed my foot, that was a great two months, insert sarcasm. I own several guns and will be in the ROTC at the u of I this fall. any questions message me."

Family photo

Jason Monson aims a blank pistol at the camera. Jason, who grew up on a small horse farm in Idaho, was active in Cowboy Mounted Shooting, which uses blanks.

Cowboy Mounted Shooting looks like a lot of fun. (Watch a primer on YouTube.) The riders train skilled horses and compete on an obstacle course, wearing a Western long-sleeved shirt and a cowboy hat and shooting guns loaded with powder cartridges--blanks--at ballooons. Jason had already won a couple of belt buckles. One of his fellow competitors described him as "very nice, respectful, personable and outgoing." It's a great sport for someone who likes people, horses, and guns.

When the roommate reported the gun, Jason was not at the dorm. The school called the city police, and an officer came and took the gun away. The police chief in Moscow (for non-Idahoans: that's "MOS-ko"), David Duke, said there was no hint that Jason had made any threat against anyone, and Jason wasn't in a whole lot of trouble.

After all, this is Idaho, where guns are freely allowed with no registration, and one can openly carry a gun without any permit. Jason had violated no criminal law by bringing his handgun to his dorm room, the police chief said. It was against the school rules to have it there — students have to keep their guns in the central gun locker provided by the school. Jason could have faced student judicial charges, but it wasn't a criminal matter.

When Jason got back to the dorm, his roommate had been moved to another room, and Jason was told that his gun had been confiscated. He called the Moscow police about 10 p.m. to get his gun back, and the officer asked him to come down to the station. He came down about 1 a.m., and the officer said he could have his gun, but not until Tuesday, after the MLK holiday, so he'd have a chance to lock it up at school.

At 8:46 a.m. local time Sunday morning, just as the Obama family was participating in a day of service by fixing up an elementary school in the nation's capital, Moscow police got another call from the University of Idaho, from the same dorm.

One of Jason's suitemates had found him, shot in the head, next to notes he'd written to his family.

Idaho has one of the highest rates of suicides in the country, mostly from guns. It also was the only state in the union without its own certified hotline with counselors trained in suicide prevention; a hotline opened in November, but it's open  only Monday through Thursday, 9 to 5. Chief Duke says he gets a call about suicide on campus every couple of years or so.

It turned out that the Desert Eagle .45 was not Jason's only gun. Sometime in the night, he'd gone out to his pickup truck for his Smith and Wesson Model 66 .357-caliber revolver.

'Flashpoint: Guns in America,' an NBC News special report 

In his obituary, his parents took the opportunity to plead against gun control: "Let us drag the evil hiding in the darkness of the most dangerous places on earth: Gun free zones."

Jason's photo with his obituary shows Cowboy Monson with a big grin, wearing a black hat and astride a reddish-brown horse at a canter. Jason is looking directly at the camera, where he is pointing his blank pistol.

That image is the profile photo atop his Facebook page, too, now and perhaps forever, along with the cover image of two semi-automatic rifles criss-crossed over the U.S. Constitution.

Read Part 2: The faces behind the numbers: Six victims of long weekend's violence

 Also contributing to this story and map for NBC News: Daniel Arkin, Meredith Birkett, John Brecher, David Friedman, Kriss Chaumont, Tracy Connor, Polly DeFrank, Matthew DeLuca, Miranda Leitsinger, Shezad Morani, Lisa Riordan Seville, Jonathan Sweeney and Lisa Wilkins.

More from Open Channel:

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Comment author avatarazliberalExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Please, all you paranoids who believe the government is coming to take your guns away and your increasing reliance on using false equivalencies (sorry for the multi-syllabic word) like traffic deaths, deaths per 1000 citizens, killings with knitting needles and so on just STFU.

There are just too many guns. Period.

  • 3 votes
Reply#55 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:49 PM EST

So we shouldn't be concerned that the Dept of Homeland Security has purchased over 7000 "assault style weapons and 1.6 BILLION rounds of ammo? This isn't the Dept of Defense. It's Homeland Security. I would really like to know why they feel the need for that much firepower and ammo. Already e-mailed my Senators.

  • 5 votes
#55.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:03 PM EST

More people in England were killed annually in the ten year period before their 1997 gun ban than in the ten year period after the gun ban.

There are mountains of evidence in every direction that proves that law-abiding gun owners are the only ones that obey gun laws. If you want a safer country then you need to punish the criminals because they are the ones committing almost all of the violent crime with repeat offenses.

Despite the increase in the number of guns in this country violent crime in the United States has been dropping for decades...the liberal media just doesn't like to report this.

When the government starts prosecuting criminals for breaking existing laws, ends the culture of light sentences and early paroles, and resumes regular usages of the death penalty THEN they can start talking about other measures to prevent crime.

  • 1 vote
#55.2 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:32 PM EST
Reply

Save the drama for your momma, you stupid, stupid people!

Violence is driven by socioeconomic and cultural factors, not the mere presence of firearms. The statistics clearly show this, and the very same statistics manipulated by so-called "gun control advocates" irrefutably contradicts their agenda's premise when put into proper context. Worse yet, the obsession over gun control sidelines the urgency needed to address issues like poor education and dismal economic prospects for those living in the most destitute and violence-stricken neighborhoods in our country.

Suicides, accidents & murders are as rife as the stupid people involved long before firearms but with knives, cars, poisons and the most flagrant ingredient is rejection of God's Good Grace.

Read Blacklisted Newsletter, " End the Gun Debate Forever"

  • 2 votes
Reply#56 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:49 PM EST

Yup!!

    #56.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:52 PM EST
    Reply

    The continued use of the phrase "gun death" is a dead giveaway that there is an agenda at play. Why is a murder with a gun worse somehow than a murder with an axe? Why do we have to jump to bans and other measure that (potentially) trample our rights when a gun is involved in a suicide but not sleeping pills?

    What happens if you chart ALL the deaths over the weekend (murders, suicides and accidents) and compare the number that do involve guns to those that don't? I'd be willing to bet a month's salary that "gun deaths" would be an incredibly small percentage that you'd barely notice.

    Look, I own guns. I carry concealed legally. I live in a decent neighborhood and I go out of my way to avoid areas and situations where there's a chance I might need my gun. I've never needed my gun thankfully and the only time I've ever fired a gun is at a range. I hope with all my heart that I can still say that when I die peacefully in my sleep at age 150.

    I am also one of those gun owners who is not against some measures being discussed... a universal background check for one, so long as the text of the bill explicitly states that there is no registration requirement and that records of checks ran will be destroyed almost immediately, is something I support. Laws requiring training before a purchase are fine with me. Laws requiring immediate reporting of lost or stolen firearms makes sense to me entirely.

    But the discussion of bans of "assault weapons" and "high-capacity magazines" are foolish, not least because neither of those terms make any sense... "assault weapon" is an invented term meant to strike fear in the hearts of lesser-minded individuals, and "high-capacity magazines" are misnomers in most cases because, for example, an AR's magazine is 30 rounds STANDARD, that's not "high-capacity", that's NORMAL CAPACITY.

    More importantly, the faster some people stop using loaded terms like "gun violence" to push their obvious anti-gun agenda the sooner we can actually get something done because those of us on the other side of the debate will be less likely to fight you on measures like those I mentioned because we may start to believe you actually want to stop deaths rather than circumvent our freedoms... and I'm not talking about the second amendment so much as I am the right and freedom to defend ourselves. You may accept the government protecting you... you may accept the 12-minute average response time of the police when your life is on the line, but I most certainly do not when it's MY life, not to mention what the second amendment DOES stand for, which is the ability of the people to fight against a truly corrupt government (something else I truly hope I don't live to see, but which we have to always remain vigilant about, and given many of the steps our government has taken since 9/11 in the name of "public safety", my hope may be dashed in this regard).

    They're not "gun deaths", they're simply deaths. And yes, we absolutely should be exploring the causes, and we absolutely should work to address those issues... mental health, poverty, depression, etc... but if you think that getting rid of guns is the solution you are not only naive but frankly dangerous.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#57 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:50 PM EST

    More liberal propaganda. Why not break it down by things like race and political affiliation so we can see who's doing these things.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#58 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:51 PM EST

    The Chicago Police Department Murder Analysis reports from
    2003 to 2011 provides a statistical breakdown of the demographics of both the
    victims and offenders in the 4,265 murders in Chicago over that time
    period.

    Of the victims of murder in Chicago from 2003 to 2011, an average
    of 77 percent had a prior arrest history, with a high of 79 percent of the 436
    murdered in Chicago in 2010 having arrest histories.

    For the same
    2003-2011 period, blacks were the victims of 75 percent of 4,265 murders. Blacks
    also were the offenders in 75 percent of the murders.

    According to 2010
    U.S. Census information, Chicago has a population of 2,695,598 people. The city
    is 33 percent black, 32 percent white (not Hispanic), and 30 percent Hispanic or
    Latino in origin.

    For the 2003-2011 period, whites were nearly 6 percent
    of the victims and accused of carrying out 4 percent of the murders.

    For
    the 2003-2011 period, Hispanics or Latinos were 19 percent of the victims and 20
    percent of the offenders.

    • 4 votes
    #58.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:33 PM EST
    Reply
    JOE BBDeleted

    Yup!!!

      Reply#60 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:52 PM EST

      This country is certifiably nuts. While we angst endlessly about trusting gay men with boy scouts, we're willing to let any nincompoop or nut-job carry a gun....and not just any gun, either: military-style assault weapons! If this isn't the height of stupidity, then no one knows what stupid is. This country loves it's guns far more than it loves it's people. That's a fact. Let's see if we're smart enough to learn from our stupidity and pass some long overdue gun control reform. Every day that we don't is another day full of senseless gun deaths across this country and another day for the grieving to continue.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#62 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:56 PM EST

      When you carry one for over 23 years protecting people who can't or won't take care of themselves, the habit becomes very hard to break. All I can tell you is that if you don't like America, please leave. The middle east is looking for people like you. I don't like Obama, but I love America.

      • 5 votes
      #62.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:05 PM EST
      Reply

      There were 32,367 deaths due to automobiles in 2011. Thats 88.67 per day.

      Ban automobiles. We need more automobile control. We need more laws. Tax automobiles and gasoline even more. Children are dying. We need to keep America safe from automobiles.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#63 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:57 PM EST

      No, tax guns and ammo - and require guns to be insured

        #63.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:01 PM EST
        Reply

        I am a paramedic. In the last three years, I have been on one suicide by gun. I have been on four suicide by hangings, three suicide by overdose, one by steak knife, and one suicide by jumping in front of a car. A gun is simply a tool. Remove the tool and they will just find another.

        Should we ban belts and shoelaces because people use them to commit suicide? Should we ban medicine too? Blaming the tool is a sign of a weak mind. The problem is the mental state of these people. Bill Dedman and NBC cause more harm than good.

        • 4 votes
        Reply#64 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:59 PM EST
        Comment author avatarBill DedmanExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

        Chuck, you missed the research. As a paramedic, you rarely see suicides by gun because -- guess why? -- gun suicides are almost always successful. They call the coroner, not you. Here's the research:

        http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-ownership-and-use/

        The case-fatality rate for suicide attempts with guns is higher than other methods

        Across the Northeast, case fatality rates ranged from over 90% for firearms to under 5% for drug overdoses, cutting and piercing (the most common methods of attempted suicide). Hospital workers rarely see the type of suicide (firearm suicide) that is most likely to end in death.

        Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. The epidemiology of case fatality rates for suicide in the Northeast. Annals of Emergency Medicine. 2004; 723-30.

          #64.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:02 PM EST

          The "Mental State" of this Nation"s "Lifestyle" is at fault here ---- You can't change the effect(shooting Killings) until you change the CAUSE----- The Intrinsically Depraved way we live our lives in this country.

          • 3 votes
          #64.2 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:08 PM EST

          Bill,

          We get dispatched to every shooting. If the suicide is obviously successful, we get cancelled by the police while we are staged. So yes, I see every shooting that happens in my district when I am on duty, whether I actually get on scene or not. Every suicide I mentioned above was a successful suicide. I have been on dozens of suicide attempts using knives and pills. These are usually used by people making a cry for help, not those that really want to die. Someone that really wants to die will succeed.

          I can't speak for the Northeast. I work in Arizona and formerly in California. What I can tell you is that gun violence is rare. Most of the violent calls I have been on have been using common household objects, pans, knives, beer bottles, fists and feet, etc. Most of the murders I have been on have been committed using knives and bottles.

          If you really want to stop the violence, ban alcohol. Most violent crimes involve people drinking. But we saw how successful prohibition was.

          You are a sensationalist. You and NBC only present stories that support your liberal views, regardless of the facts. Last week, NBCNews.com ran daily stories covering the death and funeral of Hadiya Pendleton, the teen murdered in Chicago, and used it as fodder for increasing gun control laws. Yet, the fact that Chicago has some of the most strict gun control laws in the country was lost on you.

          Again, the tool isn't the problem, people are. Address the issue that drives people to commit acts of violence and we can reduce the amount of violent crimes committed. Eliminate the tools they use and they will just find other tools.

          • 5 votes
          #64.3 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:15 PM EST

          Chuck,

          Excellent reply yet no answer from Mr. Bill. I asked him earlier on page one why no reports are ever made on the offspring of deadbeat dads and the violence they cause... pointing out the obvious problem with our society and lack of responsiblity and accoutability. Of course there is no reply as that is against the liberal agenda... its not their fault just keep voting democratic.

          • 2 votes
          #64.4 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:44 PM EST

          I did notice that once I poked holes in his case if he would respond. Obviously facts interfere with NBC's journalism.

            #64.5 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:16 PM EST
            Reply

            They picked two days whereas Chicago wasn't out-of-control. Anomalies do occur, Chicago is safe now (yuk, yuk) I wondered why they picked those two days, it wasn't hard to find. Ahhhh, the left, sex, lives, and videotape. At least as entertaining as the Marx brothers.

            • 1 vote
            Reply#65 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:59 PM EST

            Urban, it's interesting that Chicago is so often pointed out by gun-rights advocates. It seems to be taken as a fact that Chicago homicides are increasing. There were slightly more last year than the previous year. As the companion story to this one points out, homicides in Chicago have fallen steadily over the years.

            Even in Chicago, which has a strict gun control law and received a lot of publicity in recent months for a spike in homicides, the number of killings has declined sharply over the past 20 years. The number was consistently above 800 in the early 1990s, but fell to the 700s, to the 600s in the early 2000s, and near 500 or below for every year since 2004, according to a report by the Chicago Police Department.

              #65.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:04 PM EST

              Who cares that the numbers have fallen, it's still the most dangerous city in America and has the toughest gun laws... 80% or more of all gun violence directly relates to mental illness and intercity punks!

              • 4 votes
              #65.2 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:15 PM EST

              The Chicago Police Department Murder Analysis reports from
              2003 to 2011 provides a statistical breakdown of the demographics of both the
              victims and offenders in the 4,265 murders in Chicago over that time
              period.

              Of the victims of murder in Chicago from 2003 to 2011, an average
              of 77 percent had a prior arrest history, with a high of 79 percent of the 436
              murdered in Chicago in 2010 having arrest histories.

              For the same
              2003-2011 period, blacks were the victims of 75 percent of 4,265 murders. Blacks
              also were the offenders in 75 percent of the murders.

              According to 2010
              U.S. Census information, Chicago has a population of 2,695,598 people. The city
              is 33 percent black, 32 percent white (not Hispanic), and 30 percent Hispanic or
              Latino in origin.

              For the 2003-2011 period, whites were nearly 6 percent
              of the victims and accused of carrying out 4 percent of the murders.

              For
              the 2003-2011 period, Hispanics or Latinos were 19 percent of the victims and 20
              percent of the offenders.

              • 3 votes
              #65.3 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:34 PM EST

              So, I would be right to say 33% commuted 75% of the murders? WOW, I wounder how that plays out for the rest of the nation...

              • 2 votes
              #65.4 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:05 PM EST

              And in the meantime 80,000,000 gun owners with some 300,000,000 guns did nothing wrong, a few criminals did.

              • 3 votes
              #65.5 - Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:04 AM EST
              Reply

              I wonder how many people were killed, maimed or injured by an automobile, knife, club, baseball bat, or any other form of instrument during this same time frame. Where are those statistics?

              • 2 votes
              Reply#66 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:01 PM EST

              How do we reduce the number of guns in the hands of criminals?

              Let's look at the case of long-time fugitive James "Whitey" Bulger. The man is now in his mid-80's, and had been "on the run" for 16 years when nabbed in Santa Monica. He has been charged with 19 murders but is thought to be the behind many dozens more here in the Boston area. When caught, federal investigators found 29 firearms, including pistols, revolvers, shotguns and rifles, tucked away in Bulger's apartment.

              The AFT is able to trace all of these guns but only, in most cases, to the first buyer, at which point the guns disappear into the world of private gun owners/dealers. Federal law prohibits the ATF from maintaining a computerized database of firearms sales, this the result of a rider on a bill pushed by gun-lobby-funded gutless republicans. Most states do not require private owners to keep records---gutless state and local republicans this time---making the process of tracking a gun from one buyer to another time consuming, at best, and often impossible.

              You hear from NRA types, "Oh criminals can always get guns. They steal them."

              No, they buy them. Whitey Bulger didn't steal any of those 29 guns. According to authorities he bought at least 16 of the 30 at gun shows in Nevada and Utah, and bought others from private sellers. The most famous fugitive in the US looked these gun dealers and gun owners in the eye and bought 29 guns.

              There's a change these sellers didn't recognize him. Heck, he was added to the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List in 1999, the same year that Osama bin Laden was added. So maybe they knew he was a killer and might use these guns to kill again. The old adage, "guns don't kill people, people do," means that it is okay, in our twisted effing gun culture, to make a profit selling a gun to a killer or to a crazy nutjob.

              It's always somebody else's job to stop the killers. To eliminate the gangs. To lock up the psychopath. "The cops aren't doing their job!" cry the gun nuts. "The FBI and the AFT are pathetic!"

              Their job is made incredibly difficult because of one thing: They can't trace the guns. They can't find that 10% of gun dealers, and 10% of private gun owners, who are arming the criminals, the nutjobs, and yes the terrorists.

              Gutless.

              • 2 votes
              Reply#67 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:02 PM EST

              The Department of Homeland Security is set to purchase a further 21.6 million rounds of ammunition to add to the 1.6 billion bullets it has already obtained over the course of the last 10 months alone, figures which have stoked concerns that the federal agency is preparing for civil unrest.

              A solicitation posted yesterday on the Fed Bid website details how the bullets are required for the DHS Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico.

              The solicitation asks for 10 million pistol cartridge .40 caliber 165 Grain, jacketed Hollow point bullets (100 quantities of 100,000 rounds) and 10 million 9mm 115 grain jacketed hollow point bullets (100 quantities of 100,000 rounds).

              The document also lists a requirement for 1.6 million pistol cartridge 9mm ball bullets (40 quantities of 40,000 rounds).

              An approximation of how many rounds of ammunition the DHS has now secured over the last 10 months stands at around 1.625 billion. In March 2012, ATK announced that they had agreed to provide the DHS with a maximum of 450 million bullets over four years, a story that prompted questions about why the feds were buying ammunition in such large quantities. In September last year, the federal agency purchased a further 200 million bullets.

              To put that in perspective, during the height of active battle operations in Iraq, US soldiers used 5.5 million rounds of ammunition a month. Extrapolating the figures, the DHS has purchased enough bullets over the last 10 months to wage a full scale war for almost 30 years.

              So it's just another day in America of do as I say not as I do...

              Firearms were used to kill 30,143 people in the United States in 2005, the most recent year with complete data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.1 A total of 17,002 of these were suicides, 12,352 homicides, and 789 accidental firearm deaths.

              So we have a huge mental health problem in America (17,002). We have a huge bad guy problem in America (12,352). And we have a few gun owners who don't know how to be responsible and protect their guns (789).

              So BO you need to be looking into how do we help the mentally ill besides giving them pills, it's not working. You need to be looking into how do we help the intercity kids besides giving handouts, it's not working. You need to look into how to train people with gun to be more responsible.

              So are guns killing people? Or is it a bunch of mentally ill, intercity punks and a few irresponsible gun owners?

              Numbers don't lie, do you?

              • 3 votes
              Reply#68 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:02 PM EST

              Wow, that article was really fishing for a way to villainize guns. It was a real stretch to tie in Martin Luther King Jr. and a relatively small number of geographically dispersed, unrelated deaths that happened to fall over the same weekend we celebrate his legacy (which, by the way, is not about gun violence at all).

              You could do the same with just about any other type of mortality (heart attacks, cancer, traffic accidents, medical malpractice, etc.) and probably even find more than 91 examples. It's a weak case against guns.

              • 2 votes
              Reply#69 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:02 PM EST

              I think Quentin Tarantino should never be allowed to make another film in his life. I think people who want to reduce violence should boycott violent movies and video games. If we stop buying them, they will stop making them. I think people who display symptoms of mental illness should be more easily committed for evaluation and stabilization. I think people who require medication to control their impulses should be required to take that medication or be institutionalized for the safety of the larger society. I think Rush Limbaugh and his ilk should stop trying to convince people that they need to eliminate the people they don't agree with and instead celebrate our differences. And yes, while we are at it, I think a low fewer people should have access to a lot fewer guns. Sorry but life isn't fair - we are not all going to get what we want. We must be the only society in the history of the world that thinks the answer to increasing levels of gun violence is more guns.

                Reply#70 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:03 PM EST

                This is one reason I stopped watching NBCNEWS is their constant complaining about the republican party for anything at all. Then it gets worse with President Obama blaming Foxnews and Rush Limbaugh and if you watch foxnews most of the things they say Bill O'reilly has said they just twist around or its a flat out lie that he didn't say it. That's why I watch other news shows besides NBCNEWS is not a real news show its a progressive news show. At least foxnews says the news without really trying to make you think their way as NBCNEWS does. Steve Jobs said it best everyone "Think Different." NBCNEWS getting caught doctoring the news.

                • 1 vote
                Reply#71 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:04 PM EST

                Every time FOX news says "fair and balanced" I want to throw up. I also don't watch a lot of MSNBC, especially Ed, Rev Al, and Lawrence O'Donnell gets on my nerves rather badly. Joe Scarborough and Mika Brezinski are great! Chris Mathews is just fun to watch.

                  #71.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:10 PM EST

                  I won't say who I like or dislike or who I think is cute or not on nbcnews I paid for it last time :) I'll say he was a good sport about it and got me out of a bet. Or got me to win the bet.

                    #71.2 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:15 PM EST
                    Reply

                    Bill Dedman,

                    Do you work for NBC?

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#72 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:05 PM EST

                    Check the byline.......He wrote the story.

                      #72.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:34 PM EST
                      Reply

                      Let's put a map up of the 1200/day that die from tobacco, or the 115/day that die
                      from cars, or the 74/day that die from prescription drugs, or the 43/day that
                      die from alcohol. We got bigger fish to fry then guns! Or a map of the
                      100,000+ innocent civilians we killed in the BS Iraq/Afgan war

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#73 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:07 PM EST

                      We have spent decades dealing with tobacco use and getting people to quit to reduce related deaths. We have spent decades dealing with unsafe cars and drunk driving to reduce fatal accidents. We have spent decades trying to deal with addictions of all kinds. And we have had success doing so. Gun violence should be no different. We should be addressing the problem. Just because we can't eliminate every car accident, every case of lung cancer or heart disease, every drug overdose doesn't mean we do nothing. Just because we can't instantly eliminate every gun death doesn't mean we don't take measure to reduce them.

                        #73.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:14 PM EST

                        Anita, if you want to reduce gun violence then ask your politicians to put criminals in prison and keep them there. About 85% of the gun violence is committed by gang members, repeat offenders, and career criminals. End the culture of low prosecution rates, light sentences, and early paroles and you've almost completely eliminated gun violence in this country.

                        • 2 votes
                        #73.2 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:36 PM EST
                        Reply

                        It appears as only two are self-defense. But when I did a quick search found 4 more not on their list. Also found a number of incidents where just the brandishing of a weapon sent attacker running, without any shots being fired.

                        Just more "facts?" telling us why we should give up our firearms and be defenseless against criminals and tyrants.

                        Anyone believing gun control is the answer, either doesn't have all the facts or is ignoring the facts as they don't fit their agenda.

                        The 2nd Amendment is not about hunting, target shooting or even personal protection. It's about protection from tyranny, look it up. You can come up with as many reasons you want to infringe on the 2nd Amendment. But what is boils down to is you will never come up with a reason to allow possible tyranny, especially with all these scary things our government is doing.

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#74 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:07 PM EST

                        Its not about protection from tyranny. Its about protection from invasion and insurrection. Representative government and the vote are protection from tyranny and if you don't bother to use the non-violent tools available to you through the vote, you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun.

                          #74.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:17 PM EST
                          Reply

                          Total deaths from all of America's Wars. (including Independence) = 1,200,000

                          Total VIOLENT gun deaths in America since 1960 = 1,400,000

                          • 1 vote
                          Reply#75 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:07 PM EST

                          The brave soldiers who died in those wars were defending the freedom of Americans, that includes all of the freedoms granted to us in the Constitution of the United States.

                          At least 80% of the gun homicide vicitms in America since 1960 were gang members, career criminals, and repeat offenders. Many would argue that society is better off with those people dead.

                            #75.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:38 PM EST

                            I'm very curious about this 80% statistic - any sources? If true, I'm all for criminals taking care of themselves, but all I've been hearing about are innocent people caught in the crossfire and people doing things they later regret in a fit of anger.

                              #75.2 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:00 PM EST

                              Total dead from Democide (death by government) in last 100 years is anywhere from 60,000,000 to 290,000,000. Even if you go with the low number here you can see what can happen without guns.

                                #75.3 - Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:25 AM EST
                                Reply

                                As usual, out of 90 deaths due to gun violence a "whopping" 2 were in self defense. Per statistics, owning a gun puts you, your family and friends at a greater risk of gun violence then not owning one. In other words, the gun has a far greater chance of being used in a suicide, in anger or through negligence then in self defense or a "home invasion".

                                • 2 votes
                                Reply#76 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:07 PM EST

                                Per statistics..

                                Owning a swimming pool puts you at a greater risk of drowning.

                                Owning a staircase puts you at a greater risk of death by falling.

                                Owning a trampoline puts you at a greater risk of dying on a trampoline.

                                Owning a car puts you at a greater risk of dying in a car accident.

                                Owning a shower puts you at a greater risk of dying of a slip/fall in the shower.

                                Owning a motorcycle puts you at a greater risk of dying in a motorcycle accident.

                                Owning a refrigerator puts you at a greater risk of dying from choking on leftovers.

                                Your "statistics" are disengenious and misleading.

                                • 1 vote
                                #76.1 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:41 PM EST

                                Jeff, what are the relative risks of these things? Any action has a 100% guaranteed risk of some sort of consequence, but the specific risk of death is not equal among all actions. I'll go out on a limb and say that owning a shower puts you at a greater risk of getting clean than it does of you dying in a slip and fall accident.

                                  #76.2 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:03 PM EST

                                  Eraser, unfortunately NBC did not do a very good job at finding all the shooting. Just a minute or two searching found 4 more self defense shootings they failed to find. A website, keepandbeararms is updated daily with gun news, including self defense use of a gun. Happens way more than people think. Don't know what you don't know. Knowledge is power and the lack of knowledge is ignorance. Wake up people.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #76.3 - Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:32 AM EST
                                  Reply

                                  Mantal illness takes no holiday: Tracking mental illness and intercity violence over one long January weekend

                                  • 2 votes
                                  Reply#77 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:07 PM EST

                                  nbcnews is nothing more then the far left after their own agenda.

                                  • 4 votes
                                  Reply#78 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:08 PM EST

                                  No discussion about horribly violent movies, tv shows and video games. It's unbelievable how violent EVERYTHING is compared to just 20 years ago and so far away from Father Knows Best when this type of violence was unheard of. No discussion about mental health. Why can't we start with tougher sentences and automatic minimum sentences for the criminal with a gun?

                                  • 1 vote
                                  Reply#79 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:08 PM EST

                                  A hypothetical:

                                  What if the founding fathers felt that everyone had a right to a horse (the mode of transportation at that time) and wrote an amendment to the constitution that read: "The right to transportation shall not be infringed." Would we be having this debate on car registration and licensing of drivers that we're having about guns?

                                    Reply#80 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:09 PM EST

                                    This is possibly the best idea I've seen from the news! Should post everything that the police respond to, not just gun violence. You know, all the domestic abuse, parole violations, everything. It would be like, news. The facts would be great too, like what you've noted. Pictures of who, what, when and where. If you don't have the resources, maybe you could show local law enforcement how to do one of these "Wonderwall" maps. That way we would all know what is going on, and not have to just watch what one news station (liberal or other) calls news.

                                      Reply#81 - Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:10 PM EST
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