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Subscribe to RSSIn a sign that North Korea's threats are wearing thin, their closest ally – China -- voted with the U.S. for tough economic sanctions on luxury goods. North Korea responded by announcing they "will be exercising our right to preemptive nuclear attack." NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.
Thursday’s announcement by North Korea that it could launch a pre-emptive nuclear attack against the United States in the face of new U.N. sanctions is a predictable escalation of the isolated nation’s increasingly aggressive stance toward Washington over the past year. But experts note that Pyongyang’s recent advances in its nuclear weapons and missile programs mean that such bellicose rhetoric cannot be taken lightly.
The escalation of the North’s oratory began not long after the country’s 28-year-old leader, Kim Jong Un, took over from his late father, Kim Jong Il, on Dec. 28, 2011. It has been accompanied by two space launches – one successful – and a third nuclear weapons test.
It is not unusual for the North to make threats against the U.S., Japan or South Korea. And on occasion -- as in the case of the 2010 artillery barrage of Yeonpyeong Island and an earlier attack on a South Korean gunboat -- it has carried out these threats. It has never taken any military action after threatening the United States, however.
Some analysts have suggested that the latest round of threats is intended to show that the young Kim will continue his father’s legacy of hostility toward the U.S.
To what end?
North Korea has long wanted the U.S. to sit down with its negotiators to hammer out an agreement to end the Korean War, which ended in 1953 not in a peace treaty but in a truce.
The North would like to gain concessions from the U.S. in such a negotiation, but its escalating threats and rhetoric have the opposite effect: The Obama administration, like preceding administrations, has steadfastly refused to negotiate with Pyongyang.
KCNA / Reuters
This picture, released Tuesday by North Korea's official KCNA news agency, is said to show a rally by citizens and soldiers to support a statement by the Supreme Command of the Korean People's Army that it will scrap the armistice signed in 1953 that ended a three-year war with South Korea if the South and the United States continue with annual military drills.
The problem is that North Korea, which has long taken a backseat in U.S. councils to the Middle East, does have military capabilities that could at the very least threaten U.S. interests in North Asia.
According to a recent analysis, North Korea has a weapon stockpile that could threaten both Japan and South Korea and, in longer term, the United States. Some of the weapons have already been deployed, say U.S. officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity. Moreover, the North has begun research into more advanced and dangerous weapons, possibly even thermonuclear weapons, they say.
At the high end of the stockpile range, U.S. officials and other researchers said North Korea may already have up to "a few dozen" nuclear weapons that could be fitted atop its vast fleet of ballistic missiles. Those missiles are limited to an intermediate range, capable of hitting targets in Japan, South Korea or elsewhere in the northern Pacific, including U.S. military bases as far south as Guam, the officials believe.
Related story: UN passes sanctions despite North Korea threat of 'pre-emptive nuclear attack'
The U.S. believes the space launch tests are part of a development plan for an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) capable of reaching the continental United States with a payload of several hundred kilotons — 10 to 20 times the size of the bombs that destroyed the Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
U.S. officials publicly express confidence that the national missile defense system based in Alaska would be able to shoot down any incoming North Korean ICBM.
“I can tell you that the United States is fully capable of defending against any North Korean ballistic missile attack,” White House spokesman Jay Carney said Thursday in response to a question about the North Korean threat.
He also said the U.N. sanctions will make it harder for Pyongyang to continue to make progress on its weapons and missiles.
“North Korea … will now face new barriers to developing its banned nuclear and ballistic missile programs,” he said. “Resolution 2094 increases North Korea's isolation and demonstrates to North Korea's leaders the increasing costs they pay for defying the international community.”
For the past several years, the U.S. also has been monitoring North Korean research into thermonuclear weapons — hydrogen bombs and bombs known as boosted-fission weapons, in which plutonium and uranium are combined for a higher energy yield. (The problem is that if the North conducted a test and claimed that it was thermonuclear, the U.S. would have difficulty determining if the North was telling the truth. The test site at Kilchu is far enough inland that the U.S. would not have access to the particulate matter needed to make an accurate determination, experts say. )
David Guttenfelder, AP's chief Asia photographer, was given unprecedented access on his 2011 journey to Pyongyang and areas outside the nation's showcase capital.
David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security, or ISIS, a nonpartisan nuclear arms research group, said last year that any tests in the future may also be about ensuring the reliability of North Korea's current weapons design.
"Once you get beyond a dozen, it makes sense to test type and reliability of your weapons," he said. Albright said then that his group's estimate of North Korea's weapons stockpile is a bit less than those provided by the U.S. officials, but that ISIS, too, believes Pyongyang has "missile-deliverable weapons."
The design of the weapons is believed to be based on Chinese models (as were the first generation Pakistani nuclear weapons). The design is basic, and was developed in the 1960s with help from the Soviet Union, which used it to produce a whole line of nuclear warheads.
While some analysts suggested that the North planned its December rocket launch to gain attention ahead of the presidential election in South Korea , some in the U.S. non-proliferation community think otherwise. They expect that once the North feels comfortable with its ICBM technology, it will deploy the missiles. They point to the Musudan intermediate range missile which was tested in middle of the last decade, then deployed — presumably with nuclear warheads — and aimed at Japan.
Once the North has confidence in the long-range missile based on the space rocket, U.S. officials believe they will deploy it as well, making North Korea the third nation to have nuclear weapons targeted at the United States, after Russia and China.
Many in the Obama administration see that as a more frightening prospect than Iran gaining nuclear weapons, believing that Tehran is a rational actor that will serve its own national interest and preserve the regime, compared to successive generations of North Korean leaders who have shown that they are unpredictable and erratic.
But would it force the U.S. to conduct face-to-face talks with the North? State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said in December that the North has a better option.
Referring to Kim Jong Un, Nuland said: "He can plot a way forward that ends the isolation, that brings relief and a different way of life and progress to his people, or he can further isolate them with steps like this. He can spend his time and his money shooting off missiles, or he can feed his people, but he can't have both."
NBC News' Shawna Thomas contributed to this report; this piece is an updated version of a post originally published on Dec. 13, 2012.
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Let me get this straight, the NORKs think that by messing with our heads that they're going to get the US to sit down and give them a peace treaty? I understand Koreans enough to believe this is possible, but they would be much better suited by making nice and inviting Obama for a visit or some such instead of being such jerks about it all.
And this doesn't even begin to address the issue of what would happen if there was a terrorist attack in Seoul or a cyber warfare attack on the ROK. North Korea is at risk of overplaying its hand so much that a real shooting war may erupt simply because the North gets Americans so riled up that we refuse to take it anymore and demand something happen if they provoke us yet again.
I worry that North Korea is no longer a "rational actor" and they have come to believe their own propaganda to such an extent that we may look back at this time as the "quiet before the storm" and that it was obvious that we should have taken the North more serious.
I don't want a war any more than the next person, but there comes a point when fun and games need to end. I know a lot of people in South Korea and I want them to stay safe, but if North Korea is no longer a rational actor the whole world is at risk.
I heard the U.S. was shrinking their nuclear arsenal, just never thought N. Korea would volunteer to help us.
Not that I want another war but I think it's time to have China either step up and deal with their dog or stand aside while we level NK. These morons will do something sooner or later based on their past behavior. Better bitch slap them now than wait till they get a missile capable of carrying a nuke.
ya Empty threats with wepons that look bad ass. look a little closer and find out that the majority of missles they display are hollow....it worked so well for the soviets.
I agree with Shelton. NK's leadership is insane.
I don't know what Dennis Rodman said over there last week, but it must have been pretty bad...
It does not seem that North Korea is thinking very far ahead. If they were to attack, what are they thinking will happen next? Do they think that we will become loyal lap dogs to their nation? Do they think we will beg for forgiveness? If they were to attack the US, I don't believe NK would be around long enough to enjoy it.
Why don't they see the consequences in their threatened actions?
Reminds me of the old Peter Sellers movie, "The Mouse That Roared", this time with pipsqueak Kim.
If Obama has a pair (I doubt it) he'll PUBLICLY announce that should they use nuclear weapons, they will be committing mass suicide.
Typically, wouldn't one country publicly stating over and over again that they intend to use a nuclear weapon against another country be considered an act of war in itself? Especially after ignoring multiple UN security council resolutions, illegally manufacturing Weapons of Mass Destruction, detonating nuclear bombs and launching test rockets?
Lets say the US made a threat to Russia that we intend to nuke Moscow, or if the US made a threat to China to nuke Beijing... How do you think Russia and China might respond to that? Their military would immediately go on high alert and they would start punching in launch codes for a possible retaliation.
I think we should give the N. Korean's the preemptive strike they are afraid of. Get the CIA together, figure out where the N. Korean's are hiding their nukes and their enrichment facilities, fly some stealth bombers in there and bunker bust them.
N. Korea, with their nuclear ambitions and public intent to use a nuclear weapon on a US city is an obvious threat to our national security. The longer we wait the greater the threat will be. The longer we wait the longer they have to perfect their ICBM and warhead technology.
I don't think another round of sanctions is going to help. The N. Korean leadership doesn't care that their people are starving. A 2nd Korean war is almost inevitable and it is being precipitated by the N. Koreans.
I doubt China is going to back the N. Koreans, especially if they start nuking people. China wont trade their relationship with the US for the sake of N. Korea. Think of all the money China would lose out on and what would happen to their economy if they went to war with the US... Not going to happen, not for the sake of the psycho's in N. Korea anyway.
Just give lil kim a cake and he'll play nice. I mean who doesn't love cake? This will keep the Pillsbury doughboy happy for a bit.
Heil der Furrer, Kim Jong II!!
Redwiz.. good one.
It would be SO nice if North Korea launches a ICBM at Alaska (which is really all they can reach). The strategic missile shield would blow it up, and if not, bah... it's Alaska - they're more likely to hit some trees and a few bears than anything else.
BUT: It will immediately get China to stop backing North Korea, allowing an all-out strategic missile response against Pyongyang from the U.S.
The thing will be over in 24 hours, South Korea can take over the North, and in the long run, many more lives will be saved and people will be much better of than if they stay under the current regime for another 50 years.
Just a guess: you don't live in Alaska?
I believe that we should make it very clear that the U.S. will not engage in an escalating nuclear war with N. Korea. Let them, and the rest of the world, clearly know that if N. Korea fires one nuke at us or any of our allies our response will be limited to a one shot retaliation with nothing more, unless N Korea's attacks continue noting that our one shot, will be very big and over Pyongyang.
Tell me this doofus doesn't know that NK would be a glass parking lot 30-45 minutes after their first launch! Besides, it takes them days to ready one of those missiles for launch - would they knock out our eyes in the sky first?
The US is bound by NATO treaties to limit the proliferation of nuclear weapons. The US does not decide "willy nilly" to eliminate nuclear weapons.
Besides which, I'm thinking the world knows that if every major power that has a nuclear weapon fires one, just one, the world would be toast. It's the domino theory of nuclear war. NK fires on US, China fires on NK, NK fires on China....Iran is pissed, they fire on US, US fires on NK and Iran... Iran fires on Israel. What is the point of having 20 or 30 or 40? You only need two.
The new NK president inherited a lot of his father's stupid traits.
It's like Crusader Kings 2, but with nukes. :P
Nuke em first
They are right about not taking this lightly. And right after I get of the floor from laughing so hard, I'll..I'll....start laughing again.
the comments are interesting,
how many commenters were/are FOR the necular reduction act that obummer signed?
and how many of you want the second ammendment to be trashed?
go ahead and keep pushing your utopian world dreams, cause thats all they are!! so it goes from when all guns are taken only criminals will have guns, to when all nukes are taken only rogue nations will have nukes!
but maybe, just maybe if we ask nicely they will stop!!!
just ask any lib out there, all we need to do is ask them to stop and send them to sensitivity training and it will all stop right away!!
If a large scale conflict breaks out the North might make early gains which will be quickly overturned and the real danger will come when they start losing and feel they have no alternative other than to somehow try and nuke their opponent(s). A warhead can be dispatched many ways. Heck they might even have exported one to the US already and its sitting somewhere ready to be detonated. Not entirely unrealistic. They could say something like that in order to make encroaching forces reconsider.
I think it is squarely up to China to rein these radicals in. China must meet them head on and say that if war breaks out we will either remain neutral or even assist the opposition forces.
One way or another this state of affairs can't go on much longer.
So much for that assertion from the pincushion Rodman that Kim didn't want war with the U.S. To be honest folks...we don't need to nuke them. All we need to do is line up all of our fleet off shore about 20 miles, and send all of our bombers up loaded with bombs. We could carpet bomb that entire countryside from east to west and north to south within about 3 hours...and I do mean carpet bomb...as in one bomb or missile every 100 yards, turning it into nothing more than a pile of rubble. There wouldn't be much left in the way of unmarked land, and surely not more than a few stones left one atop the other.
And that is just the first wave. If the pipsqueak was still alive and dumb enough to open his mouth again...second wave would pretty much turn the land into an abandoned property. Free for the taking.
Where are the drones when you need them? Eric Holder wants to reserve the right for Obama to use them against US citizens on US soil, but when it comes to the real threats, like the NKs and Iranians, they are nowhere to be found.
Other articles and this one talk about missile capabilities, but totally skip over the fact that NK, like Iran, does not need a missile to strike one of our cities. From the reports regarding the recent NK testing it is concluded that NK is working on a smaller warhead. Warhead's do not necessarily need to be strapped on missiles in ordered to be delivered and detonated. They can be delivered in a number of ways, such as by cargo container, boat, plane or drone, to name a few. Even a truck driven across one of our porous borders. All of which is why there is such a deep concern about Iran developing nukes, given their connection to terrorist operatives. And lets not forget the ties between NK and Iran.
Sanctions have repeatedly failed and will continue to fail. In fact, it is fair to say that, in the case of NK and Iran, they have actually resulted in ratcheting up their efforts to develop nukes and their delivery systems. As long as dictators, like Kim, and religious zealots, like Khamenei, continue to rule in places like NK and Iran, they will pursue power through military strength and brutality, because those are the tools they need to maintain power. And of course, if they can strike a blow at US or our allies they feel that their power is magnified. And depending upon what that blow is, it may even be crippling.
Given the NK treat to attack our headquarters (read leadership) or "strongholds" (as NBC is reporting the translation), we are justified in attacking theirs. Better to cut off the head of the problem than to inflict death and pain upon the innocent people that make up the body of NK. This not only saves lives, but it should also deal with the problem from a long term perspective, by freeing the NK people of their dictators and allowing them to join the community of nations along side their peace loving fellow Koreans from SK. If the Nk leadership want to open the door to threats of preemptive strikes on our leadership, we should slam it shut in their faces by utilizing whatever means we have at our disposal to decapitate their leadership structure.
damon, good one. What better way for us to shrink our arsenal than by using it? N. Korea has what, one nuke which may or may not go off? They are too stupid to realize they are seconds away from total extinction. Okay, so lets extinct them since that seems to be what they want. China won't come to their rescue this time.
Are you really ready to waste more of our money on war? You do know a good chunk of our debt is due to the last two, right?????
In this picture of "rally by citizens"----Do they all have sticks up their azz?
Some very thoughtful posts. Exept fot the usual trolls who use every story to rip on obama I hope the western leaders are thinking along the lines of what I have read so far. I do think China is in a difficult position. They know that the NK leadership is less than rational, but if it collapses,they will have a refugee problem of monumental proportions. I notice they are going along somewhat with the sanctions, and I have to believe they are doing some arm twisting behind closed doors
The leadership of NK is much more intrenched than say the people that surrounded Ghaddafi or even Saddam. They have the bomb and 60 yeas of isolation and power that has made them very paranoid. They are not stupid but no doubt if they think they are going down they may want to go down in flames a la Nazi Germany.
The solution is going to messy, lets hope it is not accomplished at the cost of thousands of lives!!
huumm???
1st there is no concern... then there is a concern...then there is no concern... now there is a great concern
does this State Dept. know what the phuck about anything ??
Kim Jong Un,
Before you nuke us, sneak up behind a lion and kick him in the balls. See how that works out for ya! It's pretty much the same response you'll get from us:)
@reffery:
@ some point, you have to give this guy some blame. Really.
He accepts only the applause on the comedy show & with David Letterman. And when he gets a birdie with Tiger. When the million dollar invoice comes in for the vactions, he just hands it of to the people.
smarter than you are, thanks for the laugh. Keep it up.
Take these 30K drones we have flying around here, arm them, then launch them on select targets in N Korea- problem solved
Some observations:
1) Kim will not be using the rocket he used to launch the satellite to launch missiles at the United States. A three-stage liquid-fueled rocket of this type would take several days to erect, fuel and launch, all the while sitting in the open on a launch pad. Doncha think we would send over a Tomahawk and knock it out if we had the least inkling that it was going to be shot at Seattle next week? Multi-stage liquid-fuel rockets take days to fuel and can only be kept in a "ready" state for a day or two. This is simply not up to ICBM requirements.
2) We have absolutely no idea where most North Korean military targets are. They are hardened and hidden in caves and tunnels that would be impervious to bunker buster bombs/missiles even if we knew where they were. And a huge percentage of these are either decoys or a part of a shell game rotation system. The hardened targhets include depots with enough supplies for 90 days all-out war, 120 days of fuel (including jet fuel, diesel and gasoline), and 180 days of ammunition and spare parts. All command and control is buried and uses land lines for most important communications. Troops and equipment are only moved when satelliotes are not overhead.
3) North Korea can produce nuclear warheads more cheaply and quickly than Iran because it uses plutonium instead of uranium.
4) North Korea has more than enough missiles, from SCUD variants to R-27 variants than can carry a nuclear warhead to most of Japan and all of South Korea. A dozen warheads, well-placed, could literally cauyse devastation such as the world has never seen before. It is likely that South Korea and much of Japan would simply cease to exist as a country if the PRK (pronounced "pricks") launched a pre-emptive strike.
5) The PRK has thousands of artillery pieces, guided and unguided rockets, and heavy mortars all along the DMZ, but especially aopposite Seoul (which sits right up against the DMZ.) If the PRK launched an all-out attack, the Seoul-Inchon Corridor and all military targets along the DMZ would be immediately destroyed using conventional weapons --- no nukes needed. About 125,000 ROK troops and 20,000 or so American troops --- the so-called "tripwire" or "sacrificial" forces --- would simply die in the first 15 minutes.
6) The PRK has played this game of brinkmanship since 1953. They depend on the US, China, Japan, and South Korea to not make a mistake. One day someone is going to screw up.
7) Look at the list of provocative acts by North Korea. Here's a list from 1953-2007: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL30004.pdf Every President since Truman has tried to come up with a response to the "Korean Problem" and every single one has failed. I had friends on an unarmed EC-121 that was shot down 90nm from the NK coast. I watched as military and political leaders failed to come up with even the smallest response. Remember that the PRK Navy recently sank a South Korean ASW corvette, the Cheonan and there was no response to the sinking. There have been scores of these attacks and we never respond because to do so could possibly touch off a war that would destroy both South Korea and Japan.
8) For people who say that the PRK would make early gains in an attack, but would be quickly beaten back, remember that it would take six weeks plus to even begin to organize a counter-attack. If our bases in Japan were damaged or destroyed it could extend that to more than a year. The likely scenarion would be that we might be able to hold onto a part of South Korea around one of the ports (just as in the Korean War) that could be used as a foothold for an invasion. But unlike the Korean War, we have insufficient forces to conduct an invasion without withdrawing forces from elsewhere.
Chris, I don't agree or believe some of the stuff you posted. Never have when I see you're post on MSNBC.
Perhaps these North Korean idiots don't realize that after we shoot down their missile that we'll vaporize their peoples paradise in less than thirty minutes.
Anybody that thinks that our military hasn't run every scenario on a North Korean conflict better think again............ In the end the only thing left of North Korea would be a radioactive dust cloud.
@John,
Too bad. But I was an intelligence analyst for over ten years and a senior North Korean analyst for the end ofthat period. I really don't care whether you believe it or not. if you disagree, tell me where 'm wrong and post some citations. Otherwise it's just your worthless opinion.
If thats true, then why do people I know thats been to Korea say different?
wonder if kim whoever told rodman where he would be safe when he attacks
We would not "vaporize" North Korea if they attacked. We can't. It's not because we don't have the capability but because if there were civilian casualties(without attempting to avoid them) we would be condemned.
North Korea could vaporize/nuke/level a civilian population and lose nothing in the process because they already have nothing(or at least close to nothing) to lose. That's what should be worried about.
N. Korea is testing nuclear weapons and long range ballistic missiles.
The NBC headline is that Experts Conclude N. Korea is a Threat? Gotta love NBC - glad it was able to find experts who can figure this out for us.
@John, If indeed that was your occupation, I wouldn't advertise it. Just friendly advise, and you can take it or leave it, and it won't bother me either way. Peace.
Does anyone really expect North Korea to act rationally? It seems to me that anyone who thinks they won't attack us because it is not rational is not rational.
Is a mouse irrational for trying to fight off the cat trying to eat it? How about if a consortium of cats decreed that it was unlawful for the mouse to resist in any way or to prepare for such resistance?
One real problem with this is that North Korea may reasonably see itself as fighting for its very survival. And they are not likely to appreciate being told that the UN has passed resolutions banning North Korea from having weapons (but the same weapons being pointed at them are just fine.) As long as the UN is telling North Korea to be "a good little slave" what incentive do they have to cooperate?
Let's face facts. Only nations with nuclear capabilities are granted first-class status in the UN. That includes the United States and China. Everyone who does not have first-class status is told that they are "not allowed to develop nukes." But the nations with first-class status are allowed to have them. It shouldn't be too surprising that a nation with third-class status might decide not to cooperate and accept the status quo. And I don't think anyone here in the US would be cooperative if we were the ones subjected to third-class status. This nation was not founded on acquiescence, Why should we expect it from someone else?
Yes Pvblivs that is correct and there's a reason for that.The countries(cats) that have these devices,whether they have developed them on their own of not,have also proven to the world that #1 they know how to use them #2 what the CONSEQUENCES OF using them are and this is why for the last 67 years the only country that has used nuclear devices against another people has been the good 'ol USA.We and the rest of the world learned of the consequences and they are enormous and long lasting.North Korea has not acted in a sense that they understand what the consequences of using these devices is and China for a change agrees with the rest of the first class nations on this.They are concerned about the behavior of their pit bull too and have a right to be.I do hope there's some arm twisting going on between the two nations but you know after all these years I am betting this time that China may just let this kid try it.I hope not for the North Korean's sake.
In North Korean propaganda, they tell their people that they won the Korean War, even though North Korea lost territory north of the 38th parallel. In all negotiations, therefore they treat the US, South Korea and UN Forces as defeated enemies from whom they demand reparations.
Before the North Koreans have a chance to launch another missile, their launch facilities, missiles, gantry tower and associated buildings should be destroyed by cruise missiles carrying conventional warheads. These cruise missiles might carry thermite or white phosphorus warheads to ignite the metal structures. Without a missile to carry a nuclear warhead, they cannot strike a far distant target, because they don't have a bomber aircraft with sufficient range.
Their threats to execute a pre-emptive nuclear strike against South Korea and the USA are sufficient justification to attack their launch facilities with conventional warheads. They have, in effect, declared war against us.
I happen to agree with this statement and respectfully submit that it is applicable to the fight we are facing regarding our second amendment right to keep and bear reasonable weapons of self-defense; self defense and the defense of our liberty even against those who might think that it is in our/their own best interest to unilaterally disarm us.
I'm much less concerned about those PRK's than about our own self-serving and reliably owned politicians.
Yes, the threat from the PRNK is real!
Why, at this very moment, tens of thousands of members of their elite People's Starvation Squadron are poised on the border, ready at a moment's notice to boldly stagger forward and beg piteously for food.
Understand Joe, what you suggest could easily be perceived by Big Brother, China, as a declaration of war.. NK may be pissing China off too, with their threats and posturing, but it would be a BIG mistake to assume that China would sit back and allow the US to strike NK.. In fact, it SHOULD be China who steps in and tasks that swaggering, little pipsqueak, Kim Jong Jr.! However, China is sitting on it's butt just playing a waiting game, waiting to see IF we do anything about Kim Jong's threats or not.. Our government needs to get after China and make them take care of NK.. After all, they are SUPPOSE to be allies..
I agree China could be a contender, also, if NK strikes. Maybe we have shown to the world how 'childish' we also can be; what with all the goings on in our recent prez election and govt. We have shown weakness with our infighting. I believe we are looking less and less like the strong U.S.A. Get your gallons of bottled water stockpiled, and your canned soups and flashlights. OH...don't forget the can opener for the soup!! Predictions from the bible- Book of Revelation?
IF NK strikes, it would be at Japan and South Korea, not the US. They would devastate the South Korean Peninsula and almost certainly occupy a great part of it until the massive and devastating retaliation. They have a big army, but their equipment is OLD, and they would be siting duck for a all out aerial assault (drones would be used in droves). China would be forced to attack them they would eventually be caught in a pincer. After a few months, famine and utter devastation of warfare would mean the entire Korean peninsula would be a wasteland.
They don't have the firepower to do much to the US. but, the economic devastation of a hit to two of the top world economies' top powers would be extraordinary. An instant massive recession. Of course, NK would be totally whipped off the map, but that doesn't seem to phase their leadership at all.
nuclear threat?
This GANGNAM dude is not nice.
Building up an arsenal, disobeying sanctions? Didn't the nazi's do that? Look what happened there. North Korea needs to be dealt with.
@Chris-749391
Bull SH!T.
Calling your BS here and now and pointing out that posing only works when your doing it around people who have no idea whats going on.
Now there are many things that are wrong with your post, most of which are not allowed to be discussed. What I will talk fairly open info. First of all there is no more "tripwire" force, that ended a decade ago and instantly reveals you for a poser. Most of 2ID has been redeployed back state side with only the HQ element and limited combat assets remaining on pen. Most of what remains of US forces are logistical, communications, intelligence and command assets along with enough air-power to maintain air superiority over ROK airspace. 7th fleet also patrols the are with CF74.
What little combat forces remain are for defensive purposes only, their mission is to assist the ROK's with defending the bases and US assets. Forward combat operations would be conducted by the ROK Military. Your laughable "125K" ROK troops estimate also puts your intel WAY out of date. ROK Army is 700~750K large with a reserve of millions of troops. They utilize the US's strategic capabilities to enhance their forward power projection, this turns them into a formidable ground force.
The artillery pointed towards Seoul won't do much actual damage. The city is ~that~ big and concrete is rather resistant to damage. The largest damage would be psychological, the loss of the feeling of safety and comfort that their used. Also weapons like nukes / airstrikes / artillery are not pointed at citys and fired at random. That's a very ineffective way to use them. Instead their targeted at "things", things that need to be destroyed to cripple the opponents ability to fight. Power plants, water treatment facilities, factories, arm's depots, military bases, airports, seaports, ect. Your aim at those to disable and reduce your enemies capability to fight, not splash around a city and do nothing but put on a light show that ultimately leaves the enemy perfectly capable of fighting and extremely motivated to kill you.
Also you do not target the enemy political structure. This strategy while appealing at first does nothing but ensure there is no one amongst the enemy to make peace with. Taking out an enemies top political structure virtually ensures that it's entire military will fight to the death. Better to take out their capabilities and put them in a position where their best interests is to sign concessions (the whole purpose of war is to win concessions) for an end to hostilities.
I say all that because a study of the peninsula will quickly reveal that most critical facilities of the ROK MND are located FAR away from Seoul, typically in the middle of mountains and country area. This isn't accidental, the ROKs purposely placed their bases away from the capitol to ensure limited civilian collateral damage in the case of exchanged fire. So a shelling of Seoul wouldn't reduce the military capability of the South, wouldn't kill nearly enough civilians to make a dent in the population (10M+ people in the city) and would only serve to galvanize everyone against you. Anyone and everyone sympathetic to your cause would immediately turn against you.
If you were really in the 501st then you'd know all this.
Funny, I bet he was against Missile Defense back in the days when he worked for the NYT.
I remember a whole lot of liberals saying that the Bush administration investment in missile defense was a waste of money, and that it could NEVER work. But now that Obama is president all the leftist liberals are praying that the missile defense shield that was developed over many years will save them!
But it wasn't Obama who developed the system that is in place today, and it certainly wasn't Jay Carney!
The person you have to thank for this system is George W. Bush!
So please say: 'thank you George W. Bush'.
Thank you for not listening to all the liberals who wanted to CANCEL the missile defense program and claimed that it will NEVER work.
That's the problem. They may not be thinking. For over 60 years, an uneasy peace has existed among the nuclear powers because of Mutual Assured Destruction. But, MAD only works if you assume that the leadership of your enemy is rational and cares about their country. MAD fails if your opponent is delusional or, worse, suicidal.
@theotrherguy,
Sorry, Bub, but you are mostly wrong,
1) The tripwire forces are 125,000 or so ROKA with forward deployed American assets as you state. There are about 20,000 American troops forward deployed out of around 38,000.
2) Yes, the ROKA has pulled its mainforce units away from the DMZ and back to the central eastern mountains. That has been the case for a long while. There was simply no use to lost the ~150,000 troops along the DMZ in one fell swoop. And yes, the term "tripwire" forces is no longer in use. Planners use the term "sacrificial" forces these days. And even that term is not used a lot because the troops don't like to hear it. The bottom line is that NO forward-deployed forced, ROK or US any longer figure into any OB since they cannot be relied on to be combat effective for any useful period of time.
3) The issue of air superiority is also not at question. Air superiority over whay exactly? The NKAF is a joke. The only support 5AF and 7th Flt could provide is conventional and very limited. The number of sorties that can be run off an aircraft carrier, even when supplemented by aircraft from Japan is pretty small and more capable in movies than in real life. A visit to Vietnam would demonstrate the value of air superiority in a ground battle.
4) You absolutely do target a country's command and control all the way to the top. It is useful to allow the top leadership alone only in very limited situyations such as the First Gulf War in which it was desirable to keep Sadaam in place to avboid a massive power vacuum. The Second Guilf War fixed that, though, didn't it? Command and control is the prime target these days. I would remind you that the Seoul-Inhon Corridon (within 30nm of the DMX) includes not only the political capital of South Korea, but the financial capital, around 40% of the population, and 80% of the industry and the country's major port. This is a significant and very vulnerable target. I agree that bombardment (air or artillery) does not inflict as much damage as in the movies, but what it would do is exactly the same as in the Korean War --- it would so clog the roads with refugees that the ROKA troops in the central part of the country could not mount an effective counter-attack.
5) There has never been any question that any massive incursion across the DMZ would be a fight to the death --- for both countries. That's just the nature of the beast.
6) The last item is that there are virtually no targets in North Korea that we a) know where they are, and b) are not so hardened that they could shrug off a nuclear blast. We would end up playing whack-a-mole with Troops in contact. Been there, watched that one in Vietnam, which we lost. On the other hand, the major part of South Korean targets of value are in Seoul-Inchon and the destruction of this pop center would essentially cripple any ROK "long game."
7) I was Far Eastern Watch Center and they take a much longer view. Never said I was in the 501st. I wasn't.
8) What has changed during the past 40 or so years is that the military planners' "official" line has become that North Korea in an all-out attack would make initial gains up to 90nm across the DMZ and then forces from elsewhere in the world would come in and roll them back. From where, exactly? We don't have a single "combat ready" division in the entire army right now. The Navy has been the tip of the spear for a long time now. And the Navy has little to no ability to operate in the Yellow Sea and would be quite vulnerable in the SoJ. And that's presuming that China would not deploy any "carrier-killers" to North Korea. The military planners always fight the last war, they say. And if a massive tank battle comes to the deserts of South Korea, they are prepared.
Dave:
The countries with nuclear weapons have shown no responsibility. They just get a "might makes right" advantage in everything the UN does. The reasons you give are fictitious and self-serving. The reality is that the "cats" want easy meals. And they make the rules to facilitate that. It's not that different from the rules that King George made for the colonies. The colonists were not pleased.
Barry #1.54 Took the words right away from my fingertips. lol Excellent comment. I've oftened wondered when some suicidal head of a country, would come along; and take as many with him when he does himself in!
i say send a message to the military in North Korea. to the military not little kim i don't think he running the place. Go a head fire one off....do it.....see what happens. i realy don't think china is coming to save your asses this time.
China would, in fact, very definitely get involved. Why do you think nothing's been done about the North over the last 60 years? China does not want a unified Korea on their border, and they have the cojones to be a fierce opponent militarily in their own backyard. Imagine that China is the homeowner, and the North is their pit bull behind the home owner's fence. The dog can snarl and slobber all it wants, but as long as it's behind the fence, everyone's OK. It's when the person on the other side jumps the fence that all hell breaks loose, and nobody wants that. Leave 'em alone and let 'em snarl.
China has little to no influence over North Korea. As a simple fact, Chinese hate the Koreans, and especially the North Koreans. They supply NK with NO military aid, food aid is down to a trickle, as is fuel oil aid. China would vastly prefer a reunified Korea to a North Korea that collapses and causes millions of refugees to swarm into China.
And China probably doesn't have the capacity to take any military action against North Korea to reel them in. They tried it with the Vietnamese in 1979 and got their butts kicked.
Thank you Chris,you are absolutely correct about that and it's not only the Chinese govt that despises them the Chinese people do also.This I know from a friend of mine who spent some time in China(6 months) doing field service work on our company equipment for a Chinese firm there.He got to spend some of his spare time getting the 'feel' from society and seeing some sights and yea he reiterated that too.
@dave-1582577: Your friend spent 6 months there and this is what you are going by? LOL. How about some critical thinking? I have lived for 7 years here in China and speak Mandarin and not once have I heard a local say they hate Koreans. And yes, I have asked plenty of people that question. Now towards Japanese, yes, Chinese express their resentments all the time, if it is brought up to them first. Koreans, most Chinese are quite neutral and even positive about and work smoothly with then the occasion arises.
@ In Shanghai I am a Chinese, I agree with you. Some of Chinese may dislike Koreans but definitely don't hate them. Besides, we all like gungnam style and Korean BBQ, don't we? :).
On the other hand, quiet a lot of Chinese people especially those elders used to like and/or felt sympathy for the NK government, as the NK reminded us the "good old time" which had less corruption and inequality than today's society, but not now, I believed that most of us have changed our attitudes, since the Nk govt have don't such a stupid thing.
In the end, the major reason for China to help the NK fought against the US 50 years ago is to secure our front door (which i believe is never changed). If the NK govt can't do the job for us now, a replacement or a change isn't sound bad for me.
@in Shanghai % @kayn333,
I apologize for the too-sweeping generality. I should say that the major hatred of Koreans is in South China, especially along the Korean border. There are already hundreds of thousands of refugees there and they get the same animus that illegal immigrants get in this country. Because of restrictions on travel/residency, the problem is not all that widespread through China because Koreans cannot get the proper documents very easily.
It would be unfair to equate dislike of Koreans over all with the hatred of the Japanese (who earned it.)
BTW: Most military historians blame MacArthur for the Chinese intervention in the Korean War.
"Little Kim" and his inner circle of wankers are perfect candidates for an indisputable "Love and kisses from 'O' and all the guys and gals at the CIA!" message written on the nosecone of a Lockheed Martin AGM-114 Hellfire air-to-surface missile delivered by a General Atomics MQ-1 Predator or MQ-9 Reaper aerial assault vehicle for the betterment and enlightenment of others in the Gangman style, really . . .
Really! :-o
And that should be the strategy, decapitate the head and rid the body of the pestilence that is the head. Let the body find a new head that is not riddled with grandiose notions of dictatorship and domination over the NK people and US. I'm sure the leadership in SK would provide a very viable substitute.
The Norht Koreans also have not a clue as to what 15 million tons of TNT exploding 6,000 feet over their heads @ a temperature of close to 85,000 degrees with a shock wave wind of close to 400 miles per hour will do the average person walking down the street in Pyongyang.Something like this exists and we own more than one. A weapon of this magnitude reduces organically composed material to it's bare elements in milliseconds and has been proven once...and we did that.Ask the Japanese what thats like.As for anything that exists within 10 miles of ground zero? Cratered.Glass lined crater that one cannot get to for 25,000 years without being roasted.Okay,if thats what they want...all they have to do is try to attack us..
@dave,
So why were the ground zero's in Japan being rebuilt within two weeks and are now parks? No glass, no 25,000 years of radioactivity. The damage in both cities was far less than most people think. Not a single road or bridge, for example, was even slightly damaged. Cuyrtis LeMay's fire-bombing of Japanese cities and towns had far, far more lethal effect than the atomic bombs and was far more instrumental in ending the war.
If they have a war, then make the politicians get the hell out of the way, keep their mouths shut, and let the militlary wage war. When the military, not a politician says "mission accomplished", we will know it's the truth. And the military man won't be wearing a cod piece either when that mission is done.
But just watch, the politicians will screw this up also. McCain will be mad it isn't Iran we are attacking. Guess that will be up to Israel to do on their own.
North Korean needs an outside threat to retain legititmacy in the eyes of its own people. If you have problems, dream up a threat outside the country to distract the population.
There may be a lot of truth to that. It does explain NK's seemingly irrational behavior. If the NKs really knew we meant them no harm, it would make the conditions they're forced to live under unbearable. Their fury against their own leaders would be the end of the country as we know it.
Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
Sounds real familiar.
I think all this NK distraction is covering up the real problems ,,,,, GIANT ASTEROIDS!
I agree with all of you.
(Yawn)
Nothing new; NK's leaders have been playing this Cold War-Era, "bread and circuses," propaganda-broadcasting game of "saber-rattling against the enemy," to distract their own people from their own miserable plight, for decades.
The rest of the world plays the same game back to them, simply by broadcasting to NK the truth about the outside world and our desired relationship with them, via the world news. (Not that most NK citizens are in a position to hear it, much less believe a word of it, though).
And I'll bet you that many of the much older NK citizens assembled somewhere in the photo of thousands of their peers, are doing the same thing everyone else is doing -- with clenched fists and just for this orchestrated show -- and they quietly know they're doing it only out of fear of the military authorities and their nation's "spy-on-and-report-on-your-neighbors," public security initiatives, if they didn't go along with the program.
UFO's would save the world right now. they are obviously more intelligent and have some pretty good energy running those super fast saucers around space. No nukes needed here on Earth, free energy has been here since Tesla was shut down by financier J.P. Morgan, who happen to be in copper linear electric lines and didn't want the competition.
And there's the rub. That is how those types of regimes survive. You either 1) keep your people afraid of you or 2) keep them distracted by hating an enemy. After 60 years of internal propaganda the newer generations probably think western culture is out to kill them all. That is how they maintain their power and prevent the masses from revolting. That is how the failures in Northern Africa and the middle East have come about. Their brainwashers failed.
Exactly Dan,and they are the people I feel sorry for the most.While their dictators have been doing what they've been doing,their citizens are horribly malnourished,some starving,disease is rampant.I also think the Chinese are getting sick and tired of this and I cannot blame them in the least.They do not want a war on their borders of this magnitude at any cost.This is why they,the US and Russia drew up these sanctions.Yea,I know..believe that for a change..but they have serious reason to be worried also.4 in 10 Chinese families have relatives that live,work and go to school here in the States and worldwide and not to mention the millions of Chinese American citizens that live here full time but have close relatives back home.So yea, there's the humanitarian side of this too..the NK people are stuck back in the 50's.They do not know what a cellphone is,many have no electrical power(look at a satellite map of North Korea at night if you dont believe me.China to the north and South Korea,bright with city lights and streetlights then the black hole in the middle thats North Korea..they are in a permanent state of blackout)no running water,etc.If we were to invade,liberate their people man what a shock they'd be in for.
I know Alan I thought of that too.Usually when NK ratchets up the bellicosity usually it means there is either some sort of famine going on because it is winter and Kim is a new leader who does not have the peoples interests in mind.Or there is no heat or no power or some sort of epidemic,in any case sadly it usually means there's a lot of people dying right now that we never hear about.When we do find out it's usually through either the Chinese or S Korean media outlets.
Sounds familiar, just like the politicians use here in the US to control the population as well, it works.
Foolish little twerp. You can't bait us into a first strike. But we will have the last strike. In the words of a famous actor,"Go ahead, Make my day".
We have are own little twerp worry about. N Korea needs food, something our twerp is taking off all Americans tables.
Why do we put up with these dick heads. They never do what they agree to do after we give them food, and we continue to look the other way. Why don't we send in a drone and take out this snot nosed twerp and show him what a first strike really looks like.
It sure looks like the people of N. K. never see this food....only the dickheads at the top get it. As you see in all his photos...."The Great Leader" is not a size 32. More like a size 50. Just take out his palace...not like we don't know where it's at.
Send in Rodman to talk to his new bud. Mutt and Jeff will work it out, and all will be okay!
Send Dennis Rodman to North Korea. I am sure he can dribble a diplomatic solution out of this whole thing.
you cant rebound ingorance. this is a real problem. people will die on both sides.
So what is our government doing about this, are they going to wait till people get killed, oh wait that happened not to long ago and to this day nothing has been done!!! This is a huge issue and I see nothing being done!!!!Same ole Same ole
I don't see what the bid deal is. The solution is simple. Just send Dennis Rodman back over there to negotiate a peace deal with Kim Jong Un. After all Un seems to be a big Rodman fan. Dennis can also take a trailer full of Coca-Cola with him as a peace offering. LOL
@ Been & Joe
Damn it, you beat me to it.
I think I know where Obama can send the drones. Besides sending them up his rear.
So easy to find peace...
This flawed logic by Kim is not going to work out as he plans, I suspect. It's going to be hard to force people to the bargaining table when Kim has been blown to a gaseous vapor and his country is turned into a burnt, barren radioactive wasteland.
Do they realize that they would be vaporized ?....I guess they have started to believe their own madness. Oh well..... It will be a clean slate for the South Koreans to rebuild upon.
Wow, I just looked really close at the picture of the citizens conducting the "rally". One can plainly see that it is staged and they all look like robots, standing in perfect lines. The looks on their faces tell the tale. I don't understand what the leader of NK is thinking. He should know that we are highly capable of intercepting such a missile attack.
PBgeorgia: What? Are you suggesting this demonstration was staged? Why I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya! Who ever heard of North Korea staging fake demonstrations?
Of course, come to think of it, they did have the Korean military beating and arresting people if they weren't seen to be crying enough or showing an acceptable amount of sorrow during the funeral of the Dear Leader....hhhmmm you may have a point.
I actually feel sorry for them. Its their government thats the problem and brainwashing them with their pathetic propaganda ..... But I agree... they do look like robots and their poor faces say it all.....
KInd of like the tripe in Venezuela. All staged. Meanwhile the "leaders" claim to have the hearts and minds of the people! LOL!!!
Chaves merely talked the talk but would never have done anything to provoke us other then talk. Kim believes he is a world power and should be treated with the same respect as we show China.
Just do it man. And if two or three hundred 1.5 megaton heads accidentally land in China, well that's just the way it goes, nobody's perfect. 1.5 is what most of our war heads are, that's only 1000 times Hiroshima. I mean we have 12,000 of the damn things, we won't miss two or three hundred, wipe out a bunch of the debt too.
And China has enough of it's own to take out every major city in our country, far more then we could defend against. You're being a fool.
Larry...your ignorance about who has the larger nuke capacity is showing. Stop talking now before you truly embarrass yourself.
Further...I suspect that China has lost interest in continuing to babysit N. Korea. Hence their willingness to go along with the latest round of sanctions. If N. Korea gets bitch slapped by the U.S. China will not really care. As long as we then take care of and deal with the resulting leaderless population so that they don't come streaming into China.
You're the ignorant one. Despite people like you admitting we have 100 times the number of warheads we'd need to totally destroy an enemy your math skills are so weak you can't understand that the same logic concludes a country with 100th our number of warheads could decimate our country. Having 11,000 more warheads than China might help your chest hair grow but it wouldn't reduce the devastation we'd get from those they have.
Hey c'mon people, it'll only take one landing in either backyard to cause some very serious head scratching!
Hye,do be suprised by the fact that big China may be on OUR side this time..they're not too happy and have not been happy with the NK's for a long long time...This might be a joint venture..Chinese invade from the north and the US/ROK from everywhere else..thing is..what do we do when it's over?I say just give Afghanistan and North Korea to the Chinese..or at least offer them to the Chinese..maybe for a bit of debt reduction possibly..payback on our part?What do you all think?
This article was written by a moron whose job depends on readers and editors taking North Korea seriously. If North Korea launched an a-bomb (they only have fission weapons not hydrogen weapons) at us, CHINA would invade North Korea to prevent us dropping real nukes on them. They have just enough military capability to get themselves killed. This idiot takes Red Dawn seriously.
all the commens I read make sense, yours is stupid. It is a serious thing, not just the writer making @!$%# up....
You assume they would consult with China before an attack. Because of the number they have in their army they believe themselves to be a world power. Much like Saddam prior to the gulf war. A 1 million plus army with 5,000 tanks sounds great but isn't spit against a true world power that has all the tools.
North Korea has taken too many actions that could have led to war to ignore. Shelling SK islands and torpedoing their ship all could have led to all out war yet they did it for no apparent reason. You assume they'll apply the same rational thought that most of us have when they've shown time and again they don't.
I bet our Navy Seals could go in, take out Kim and his whole evil regime and be back in time for breakfast. The N.K.'s would never know what hit them...... (The Navy Seals impressed the hell out of me with O.B.L.)
I am with you!!! They were the only ones who cared in Benghazi. We have a weak president and the world knows it!!! Take out this little Shi- now and move on!!!!
Not the Seals. Send in a CIA resource team. They have guys who would blend in with the people. Seals wouldn't blend. And N. Korea is a bit more sophisticated in the control of their air space than Pakistan. so choppers coming in would be seen and never make target.
Send Obama in he killed Osama...shouldn't be big deal for him
If your idea of a strong president is one who sends in 500,000 troops looking for imaginary WMD getting 5,000 killed and 50,000 maimed the country has shown twice we don't want that kind of, "strength".
"If your idea of a strong president is one who sends in 500,000 troops looking for imaginary WMD getting 5,000 killed and 50,000 maimed the country has shown twice we don't want that kind of, "strength"."
Gee Larry...stupid is really your stock & trade isn't it? First of all...we didn't send in 1/2 a million troops. Nice try though. Second...since the warehouse they were stored in was empty by the time we arrived in Baghdad...you have no clue what was in it do you? But the dog handlers who's dogs went insane for hours inside that warehouse the size of some small towns know what was in it at one time. Bomb dogs and chemical dogs went nuts in there...so yea...there were weapons of mass destruction there at one time.
Where do you think the insurgents got all the toys they used to make I.E.D.'s? God stupid people like yourself who just PARROT what you hear from equally stupid people are just tiresome!
Wow you love the koolaid don't you. You make unproven claims about a warehouse yet can't explain why we didn't destroy WMD sites if we knew where they were. That plan has worked very well for the Israeli's but I guess they're smarter than Bush. Bush fabricated evidence and that's a fact. Even key republicans like McCain accepted the fact we were wrong yet you still don't. I'm sure they'll keep the koolaid coming.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-03-24-intel-commission_x.htm
The problem is that sooner or later the "Bully in the School Yard" has to put up or shut up. It seems to me that the increased threats have to come to some conclusion, or the "dear leader" risks looking weak and unimportant to his military. and his people. Showing weakness is something he cannot afford. He may make so many threats that he will have to do something provocative to stay viable. It would be interesting to find out just how loyal his armed forces are to him. It's my opinion he's a little punk that doesn't have the balls his father did. Only time will tell.
It's not his having balls that worries me...it's his lack of brains that is somewhat disconcerting.
Having brains means he wouldn't decide to show off that HE is in control, then suggest a way out of it all..as in "Okay...we can talk, but I reserve the right....blah blah blah."
Having balls would mean he would make waves, and launch. He is more likely to want to show that HE is in control.
It is important to him to show he has balls more than brains! In other words...he suffers from "SHORT MAN'S DISEASE"! LOL!!!
we need to sendabout 20 B2's to visit the little banty rooster some night.....and just say hi.......
It needs to be made clear to NK that one Trident submarine probably has enough firepower to blanket every square inch of that small country in a 20 million degree nuclear fireball - with pretty much no warning time.
But we should also behave in a manner so that the rest of the world will know that the U.S. would not do that without having been severely provoked - though the usual suspects will always scream otherwise.
Since NK isn't listening to us, some other country needs to impress upon them just how terrible things would get for everybody if NK was to try to go nuclear against a country with so much firepower and so many ways to deliver it. NK is near to making this a world-issue and not just a NK-US thing.
Actually one Trident doesn't have quite THAT much in it's belly. But there is certainly enough in one to make a hell of an impression.
However...going with your idea...we could use the firepower of our fleet, plus the bombers within our Air Force, Army & Marines to carpet bomb that country (without nukes) back into the 10th century...dropping about one bomb every 100 yards or so. There wouldn't be much left...and certainly no way for them to retaliate.
Bombing and air power are highly overrated. Remember WWII? Most German industries were at higher production at the end of the war than at the beginning despite the bombing. They ran out of fuel and pilots, not tanks and aircraft. In WWII the average bomb fell 5 MILES from its target. In Vietnam we got that up to 3 miles. In Afghanistan it is back up to around 4 miles.
Yes, there is precision-guided munitions but these depend on knowing where the targets are. Ditto for cruise missiles and such. We have no idea where anything in North Korea is. It has been one of the mose "intelligence dark" countries in the world since the 50's.
What is required is a rifle and boots on the ground. Period. And our"boots" are over-deployed and the men and equipment long overdue for rest, refurbishment, or replacement. We already have a situation where there are far more suicides in the military than combat deaths. What do you think a war with Iran or North Korea would do to suicide rates? Double? Triple? Twenty times more? Think about it.
Well Chris, the "boots on the ground" might enjoy the change in climate. Morale booster right there.
No,as was said before Chris...one very large device in a very well located populus would pretty much get the point across.All we could do is retaliate,thing is,when we retaliate..we retaliate in a very big way that is not soon forgotten.They could have all the bunkers in the world with all the doomsday prepping but without any communications or fuel or food,they would' nt last too long,especially with no support from China
Anybody else notice in the "rally" picture most of the attendees are males of military age, and all of them are standing in ranks?
Also, in the shadow of the photographer, it looks like he is wearing one of those silly, huge, N. Korean military hats.
In a country that sent thousands to the gulags for not looking sad enough when the lsat leader died you do what you're told.
Don't let this little war monger make threats against America. Tell him that if they even attempt this, their will be no more North Korea here for him to live in. Bang, N Korea gone!
The target they'd likely hit with an intermediate range missile(s) is the U.S. missile defense fixed positions in the Aleutians. This would weaken our defenses against a long-range attack on the West Coast. However, we still have naval missile defense, which they could attack conventionally.
The Repubs would be wise to stop attacking our President in public. This rancor and disrespect has the effect of emboldening our adversaries. A miscalculation could be very costly for them, and for us.
Well he better get his poop in a scoop then!!!
I agree with the publically attacking our president 100%.
Actually...trying to blame the Republicans is a bit off base. I'd say this is probably a result of his little apology tour back in the first weeks of his last term.
But nice try at blaming the Republicans.
But it was OK for all Liberals to attack Bush when he was in office?!?!?! You Libs sure do live by alot of double standards when it comes to fair play in politics... By the way to H3LL with Barack!
It didn't stop the Dems from attacking Bush when we were in Iraq an Afgh........so what is the diff mr. stereotype left winger?
Of course they aren't going to attack the U.S.; its just another scare tactic to pump up the defense budget.
Mr. NK gets on his knees every night praying that free speech will not invade his country. Especially since he plans on asking the U.S. for food stamps for his starving populace .
That's bull@!$%#. The country pulled together when 9-11 happened despite later proof the administration had failed to check out men of middle eastern descent wanting to train in Florida flight schools but not caring about learning to land or the fact these same terrorists were being tracked in Malaysia then lost when they resurfaced in the U.S. because agencies didn't bother reporting to one another. Most democrats backed Bush's decision to attack Iraq based on evidence he provided. Democrats for the most part accept our president, which ever party or whatever skin color. Bush got everything he wanted from wars, drug plan and tax cuts despite democrats having a majority in congress. Yes totally like today's republicans. Rolls eyes.
ROTFLMAO! Larry!!! You need to follow this mantra...please!!!
"Better to keep quiet...
And thought to be a fool...
Than to speak..
and remove all doubt!"
A) The flight schools were privately owned. ANYONE can walk in and take lessons. No clearance from the Feds required!
B) Democrats only accepted GW when he did what they wanted, and had been wanting since BEFORE he ever thought of running for President...attack Saddam. Then, when the fickle public decided they didn't like it anymore...the Dem's turned pretty ugly.
C) To think that GW used the wars for anything other than their stated intentions is just sad...but typical on the part of you parrot sorts.
D) The Congress was NOT in the hands of the Donkey party until January of '07. Until then, the Congress was held in majority by the Republicans...from 1994 actually.
******(Incidentally...that would be the reason we had such a fine economy during that 12 years. Shortly AFTER the Donkeys took over the Congress...unemployment began to spiral up...and economy down. Bottom was hit when Obama was elected! Just facts...which I know you Donkey Party sorts hate!)******
So please Larry...follow that mantra above...and stop embarrassing yourself.
Unlike you I don't have to lie to make a point. The last Bush budget passed in 2008 for fiscal year 2009 was enacted before Obama was elected with a 1.2 trillion deficit. The economy hit bottom while still under Bush's last budget bringing total debt to 12.1 trillion from 5.7 when he started. Below from conservative Cato institute.
http://www.cato.org/blog/dont-blame-obama-bushs-2009-deficit
Amazing what a boost to the economy it is spending 6.4 trillion more than we took in revenue over 8 years will do for the economy. I'd say starting with a 400 billion surplus and 4.2% unemployment and ending your presidency with a 7.9% unemployment, an average job growth of 50,000 a month, the worst since Eisenhower, losing millions of jobs his last 6 months, millions in foreclosure and a banking system in collapse we've had better presidents.
Deny Bush inherited a surplus had he not spent the money after taking over? Deny this.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa100600a.htm
Blame democrats like Franks for asking banks to lend to the poor but ignore Bush actions that actually led to the housing collapse.
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/10/05/zero_down_mortgage_initiative_by_bush_is_hit/
Sanctions does not work and will never work. North Korea will nuke us I just hope we will nuke them back but the U.S. leaders are all no go wussies and will not fight they will just cry like bunch of babies while they make our kids afraid of guns.
Ah...fianlly someone who recognizes that sanctions don't really work. After over 10 years worth...Saddam sort of proved that fact. The ONLY thing that despots understand is a strong slap upside the head! Sooner the better!
Sanction mean nothing to nutjobs in NK or Iran
We can probably knock down missiles aimed for the U.S. but likely couldn't stop them from nuking and killing our 30,000 troops stationed there or the millions in South Korea and Japan who would likely die. Why do those who pretend to have the biggest balls always make their boasts from safety?
Those that talk about the use of nuclear weapons do not understand the impact such weapons would have. They are not clean surgical strike weapons. Their atmospheric displacement is enormous and far reaching. As you point out Larry their effect would be felt by South Korea, Japan, and by the west coast inhabitants of the United States. The jet stream would carry the radioactive fallout to the US. If by chance the current conditions at the time of their use carried such pollutants into China and/or Russia does anyone think they would just sit there and take it? Not hardly. The use of nuclear weapons is a response a country takes if it wants to join the inhabitants of their intended target(s). Only fools consider such a deployment.
It is my belief that those who propose such a deployment have never served and would never serve.
Are we sure this message is intended for us and not just boasting for internal consumption. Iran's PM also makes grand claims with no follow up. It's sad that many want to just swat the fly rather than find out what he really wants. Aren't we supposed to be the adult in this relationship.
How many 'Useless' years do we have to waste talking?!?!?! Or rather how many more?!?!? Another 20 or 30, or is it 60, just ridiculous... Nuke the North NOW!!!
The Ganman Style guy may be able to talk some sence into Kim Il Yung Ding Dong.
The Ganman Style guy is an Anti-American too, haven't you heard? I think it's disgusting that American people actually support this guy and make him rich.
NORK wants a nuclear Falklands. This is even dumber than Argentina wanting war with England. The US needs to rid the world of these clown with a sub-based message. This reminds me back in the early 80's when Kdaffy declared war on the US and got his butt blown to shreds over a 2-day period. They have already proven their "oh so threating" technology to be crap. The could even light a skyrocket for the old farts funeral.