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Subscribe to RSSAn anti-secrecy group, the Freedom of the Press Foundation, has released a recording of Bradley Manning's courtroom statement, in which he admits to illegally giving WikiLeaks hundreds of thousands of government documents. NBC's Michael Isikoff reports.
An anti-secrecy group on Tuesday released a secretly made audio recording of Army Pfc. Bradley Manning's recent hour-long statement to a military judge in which he openly admitted leaking hundreds of thousands of government documents to WikiLeaks as part of an effort to "spark a domestic debate on the role of the military" and "help document the true cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan."
"In an era where government secrecy is at an all-time high, we believe Bradley Manning's actions should be commended rather than condemned," said Trevor Timm, executive director of the Freedom of the Press Foundation, the group that obtained the audio recording and posted it on its website. "In our minds, Bradley Manning is absolutely a whistleblower."
The group -- whose board members include Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Pentagon Papers in 1971 -- said it obtained the recording from a source it declined to identify. Manning’s statement was made in open court but the group acknowledges the recording was made in violation of military rules which explicitly forbid “photographs, video and sound recordings” of the proceedings.
On Tuesday, the U.S. Army Military District of Washington notified the military judge presiding over the Manning court-martial that there was a violation of the Rules for Court.
"The U.S. Army is currently reviewing the procedures set in place to safeguard the security and integrity of the legal proceedings, and ensure Pfc. Manning receives a fair and impartial trial," it said in a statement.
During the Feb. 28 session at Fort Meade, Md., Manning pleaded guilty to 10 of the lesser charges he is facing, including unauthorized possession and transmission of "protected information." He is still facing a military court martial in June on 12 more serious charges that include "aiding the enemy" and which could result in a life sentence.
Prosecutors have signaled they intend to call a Navy Seal who participated in the raid that killed Osama bin Laden in an apparent move to establish that some of the material that Manning leaked wound up in the al-Qaida leader's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
P.J. Crowley, the State Department's former top spokesman who lost his job after criticizing the U.S. military's treatment of Manning, who was kept in solitary confinement for 10 months, told NBC News he nonetheless believes the Army private's actions remain indefensible.
"It's nonsense to call Bradley Manning a political prisoner," Crowley said. "He is a member of the military who was serving in an active war zone and took it on himself to compromise hundreds of thousands of documents."
In his statement to the court, Manning spoke about how as a low-level intelligence analyst in Iraq, he came across material that disturbed him and made him question U.S. policy. He cited a 2007 aerial video of a U.S. helicopter attack that killed innocent civilians and two Reuters journalists.
“The most alarming aspect of the video to me…was the seeming delightful blood lust the Aerial Weapons Team seemed to have,” Manning said. “They dehumanized the individuals they were engaging and seemed to not value human life, and referred to them as quote, unquote, ‘dead bastards.’”
Manning also spoke how he became depressed and, as a young gay man in the Army, had trouble fitting in. “In real life, I lacked a close friendship with the people I worked with,” Manning said. “For instance, I lacked close ties with my roommate (because of) his discomfort regarding my perceived sexual orientation.”
Instead, Manning said he found comfort from a relationship he developed online — with someone who worked at WikiLeaks, to whom he sent the aerial video in 2010 after burning a CD copy on his computer. He gave his online interlocutor – whom he now believes may have been the group’s founder, Julian Assange, or one of his top associates — the name “Nathaniel.”
“Over the next few months, I stayed in frequent contact with Nathaniel,” Manning said. “We conversed on nearly a daily basis and I felt we were developing a friendship. The conversations covered many topics and I enjoyed the ability to talk about pretty much everything — not just the publications that (WikiLeaks) was working on…
“For me, these conversations represented an opportunity to escape from the immense pressures and anxiety that I experienced and built up throughout the deployment,” Manning said. “It seems that as I tried harder to fit in at work, the more I seemed to alienate my peers and lose the respect, trust and support I needed.”
This story was originally published on Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:35 AM EDT
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Traitor, he gave an oath be should be hanged. He also beat the hell out of a fellow female soldier on deployment. He is a coward and a small women beating boy.
Excuse me. Where is your evidence of this beating? The only traitors here are George Bush and Dick Cheney, et al. They actually did waste thousands of American lives and trillions of dollars. Bradley Manning was abused in detention and should be let go.
He's about 5 foot 2 inches tall.
If he went at it with woman soldier, my money would be on the woman.
Al Qaeida is on the CIA payroll when it's convenient (Iraq, Egypt, Syria, etc.), yet Manning is being called a traitor?
The traitors are the war criminals who perpetrated the Iraq war.
If this were any business this would all be covered under the whistleblower act and he would be a hero. The military isnt a business and each person does take a voluntary vow to follow orders regardless of their personal beleifs.
Manning should be tried but so should Bush and Dick the Cheney for lying to get us into a war which I find far more serious.
He was punished by article 15 for attacking a female soldier on deployment it is in his military record which is public look it up.
Hmmmm...... war, kill people, blow stuff up.... yeah, that's the idea....
Now throw this guy away for the next 20 years.... hes lucky he's not in front of a firing squad
The only reason he is not being charged with treason is because that is a very specific charge which constitutionally requires certain aspects be proven in specific ways.
What is more disturbing is that this young man found better friends on line than in real life. We also have the issues of Gen. Allen and Gen. Petreous with their on line activities.
You had better believe the military will be closely monitoring the on line activities of ALL of their members from this point forward.
It is too easy for people to give away our secrets with just a few key strokes and a mouse click.
So, leaking classified material was his way of gaining the respect, trust and support of his co-workers? Nah, I think THIS is his true motive: REVENGE!!! Lock him up & throw away the key!
the real war criminals the like of Bush, Cheney, wolfwitz, richard pearl who lied and decieved the American people about Iraq being an exentential threat to the WORLD!!!! for the benefit of israel are enjoying their lives at the expense of thousand American military personnel and tens of thousands of Iraqis maily civilians
Couldn't agree more Chris...
The first people sent to the front lines of any US declared battle field needs to be ALL current politicians' children, whether they're male or female.
So why is he the one on trial? Maybe we need to look up that person who blew the whistle on the MyLai Massacre that the government tried to keep quiet and put him on trial as well? How dare anyone expose a massacre!!!
Of course I am only being sarcastic. The real ones that belong on trial are the ones who tried covering all this up by labeling it "secret." And others who belong on trial are the ones who lied us into that war for oil, who tortured, ordered torture and others war crimes. There are too many people in this country that will not tolerate harsh treatment of Manning for what he did. He is a political hot potato for the military justice system and the most sensible thing they can do is give him a slap on the wrist with time served and just let him go. They can't get to him without exposing themselves - and by getting to him by telling his story will only make him look like a hero. Trying to punish him anymore than they've done already will be extremely problematical.
I am tossed on this one. On the one hand he put the lives of those on the ground at risk.
On the other I could see how he fought an internal war over the oath that he took.
"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
And to that end, which is the higher purpose? Swearing allegiance to the Constitution or what he perceived as domestic enemies? Personally, I would say both, but bearing true faith and allegiance to the first means that sometimes the second must be questioned. I don't know, it's a tough one.
Yawn.... I'm not sure why this guy ain't dead yet? Shouldn't his punishment be swift? For all the low IQ individuals posting on here, and there are quite a few by the looks of it, how many individuals were killed who were just trying to help us get rid of terrorists because of this little turd releasing this information?
I ran into a similar situation when I was in Vietnam. I was debriefing pilots returning from bombing runs into Laos and Cambodia while Nixon was on TV claiming that we were not bombing in Laos and Cambodia. There were also numerous messages from MACV telling us that we could go to prison if we told about it, including to Congressmen, media reporters, visiting dignitaries, etc. This caused a huge moral conflict. On one hand we have a President telling blatant lies to the American public and on the other hand I have eight years invested in a military career. Hmmmm what to do????
What I did was to complete my tour in Vietnam and the rest of my hitch in Japan and then left the military. I fulfilled my oath to obey even a liar as Commander-in-Chief, but I had no further use for future service under those conditions.
I really thought long and hard about it when the Pentagon Papers thing was going on and kept my mouth shut then. But it really is tough to see something that is absolutely wrong and not tell anyone else. This is how one man's lie can stain a lot of people as Nixon's lie stained me.
I can really see both sides of this issue and can see the moral predicament that Manning was caught in.
Hummmmmmmmmmmmmm " Declared War?" .... That's what the constitution desired ...BUT ..(wiki)
"A declaration of war is a formal declaration issued by a national government indicating that a state of war exists between that nation and another. For the United States, Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War". However, that passage provides no specific format for what form legislation must have in order to be considered a "Declaration of War" nor does the Constitution itself use this term. Many[who?] have postulated "Declaration(s) of War" must contain that phrase as or within the title. Others oppose that reasoning. In the courts, the United States First Circuit Court of Appeals in Doe vs. Bush said: "[T]he text of the October Resolution itself spells out justifications for a war and frames itself as an 'authorization' of such a war."[1] in effect saying an authorization suffices for declaration and what some may view as a formal Congressional "Declaration of War" was not required by the Constitution. "
So, A congress without any balls ... simply authorizes billions to be spent on "undeclared wars" and sits back ....
If the president wants Americans to die in battle to defend our shores against invasion ..thats reasonable and proper .... BUT to send our men to die on foreign soil without a a declaration of war is wrong and< I believe ...Unconstitutional. A "Declaration of War" ... by the congress of the United States .. shows that as a nation ... we are in this together ..united by vote of our elected representatives ...
The truth about ourselves and our actions are sometime painful ... As individuals & a nation ... making excuses for them doesn't rectify their harm .. nor make the changes to correct them ..
Bradly Manning is our scapegoat ... our Billy Budd ... who is being sacrificed for our sins ..... How far will we go before ....... ?
"Farewell to .. The Rights of Man "
AB-1981
Yes he should be let go, through a trap door to a short drop and a quick stop.
As one who served I believe that Manning should be tried as a traitor not only for the leaks but for the harm that it could bring to those on the ground doing the fighting. It is easy for many of you to attempt to justify Manning's actions. He was not a combatant but a low level analyst who stole secret documents and passed them to a site known to publish sensitive documents.
Both Houses of Congress have oversight committees that review our Military as well as our most secretive resources. There are other channels Manning could and should have used to expose atrocities if any occurred without leaking thousands of documents to Wikileaks.
Manning in my view comes across as a loner, angry, with no close relationships(even in his private life), who decided he would make someone pay for his faults. So he choose to leak sensitive material. In the past he might have been shot on the spot as a traitor. What I have read about some of what he leaked, probably should have been reviewed by Congress, that is where it should have been reviewed and not before the entire world including our enemies.
Many of you have said these were unwarranted wars. I agree that Iraq was a bad decision and we should have never invaded, but the Afghanistan war was justified because of Terrorists using it to train those who would do us harm.
Wars are ugly, troops die, civilians die, people die from friendly fire, mistakes are made that cost lives. Nothing about war is clean. Raids on suspected sites don't always turn out like the movies, and sometime innocents die.
We clearly don't need those who swore and oath to protect this Nation to be exposing our secrets. A soldier has the option of refusing an order that he believes is against the rules of engagement or exceed the bounds of civilized reasoning. A very small number of our officers and troops have overstepped the bounds of right and wrong. Tour after tour engaged in combat wears heavily on our troops and at some point reason is overcome by revenge.
As an analyst Manning had no reason to be under such stress, as a noncombatant he worked in a secure camp away from the killing fields. His only stress was that of a loner wanting to be important.
Many of you I would suspect have never served a day in your lives facing the possibility of going to war. The smallest of information can at times expose our troops to harm. We don't need privates telling the world what we have done. I don't know if any of our troops or allies died from these leaks but they sure gave our enemies a valuable insight into how we operate. Do troops call those they kill bastards, hell yes they do. You are after the enemy who wants to take your life or terrorize some city in America. You think this is far fetched, just look at the Twin Towers and those who died on 9/11. Do think those people knew they would die the morning of 9/11 when they rose to start their day.
I believe the day we stopped the draft was the day we created those who question everything we fight to protect. Freedom becomes more important to you when you know you may have to die for those freedoms. Sadly the majority in our Congress and White House have never served. I take pride in knowing that I wore the uniform of freedom and believe all should serve. I have nothing but disdain for those who break their oath to this Nation or for those who use the freedoms we have to bring it down. I'm in my late, late 60s and would go to war now to protect the freedoms for my family and for those of you who are critical of everything we stand for. Our military has no place for men like Manning.
I see all the "chicken hawks" are out today.
@radar,
The person who wrote the coverup document for the My Lai Massacre was non other than then-Major Colin Powell.
Just as MacArthur and Eisenhower made rank by riding down and killing veterans demanding a promised bonus, Powell made rank by trying to whitewash the event. This was the stain that kept him from running for the Presidency or Vice-Presidency.
Why don't some of you who think Manning is a hero visit a Veterans Hospital and see up close and personal the ravages of War. The young men and women there gave more than one should to protect your right to free speech. But they, unlike Manning, gave their limbs, eyes, hearing, and lives to uphold the oath they swore to. Who did Manning keep his oath to??? Does Assange protect you from Al Queda by plastering leaks for the world to see??? Free speech carries with it a down side when we give away our secrets we put others in jeopardy that we may not realize. Our government having secrets is not a bad thing. If we knew all then someone like a Manning would wittingly or unwittingly give those secrets away bringing danger to us all. The slogan from WWII " Loose Lips Sink Ships" is as true today as it was then. We have a responsibility to protect our Nation and those freedoms we cherish. Airing our laundry before the world is not the place.
This is a man who should have never been in the position he was, and most likely, never should have been in the military. Honestly, he broke his oath and should face the consequences. And don't think for one minute the contact @ Wiki leaks was really his "friend." All he was to them was a means to an end, and he fell for it.
This cowardly traitor should be shot by a military firing squad, all with live ammo. Hopefully, some of you idiots will stand with him.
Considering the military said NO SOLDIER was compromised by the leak, what's the problem exactly.
Instead, we found out the the govt was lying to us.
Oh the government was lying to us, give me a break, what governement doesn't lie to its citizens, really? Most people cant handle the truth. You have to wait and see if any soldiers were compromised. Bottom line, he took the oath and he broke it, now he needs to do time. If they find that any deaths came as a result of his leaks then he should get death. He is a little weasal who wanted some attention and wiki-leaks gave him that attention. You think they were being truthful when befriending him, they used him like a pawn in the name of their cause and could care less about him no matter how much they want you to believe otherwise. That is what humans do, that is what governments do and that is what governments and people will continue to do. Governements are not, nor ever can be completely candid about what is going on. The world will never be that Utopian society so many of you derelicts think it is. If you don't like it then leave this world, it will get on fine without you.
Daveyboy-755833, unlike all the other soldiers, he upheld the Constitution. If the government is lying to us, we want to know about it, so it can be fixed. We cannot allow our government to do criminal activities in the name of the people. Not a single soldier was hurt by his actions, but thousands were killed by the actions of the warmongers. Weigh your evidence.
I would like to speak to the broader issue of secrecy. I believe that secrecy is anathema to democracy. There is no better way in a democracy (or democratic republic) to ensure that the people are controlled than to control the information they receive (or don't receive).
There is also no better way to cover up wrongdoing than to claim that certain information is classified or secret. If you think I'm exaggerating, I would suggest that you read about just one example - the special prosecutor that was charged with conducting the criminal trials for those involved in the Iran-Contra conspiracy and cover-up.
Lawrence Walsh, a Republican judge, who was tasked with prosecuting those involved, lays out in detail the methods by which real traitors abuse their power by claiming even the most non-sensitive information as being secret while carrying out God-knows-what actions with the people's money and putting soldier's lives at risk.
Just because somebody says Bradley Manning endangered American lives doesn't make it so. I think that's what the trial is for...to actually determine whether that is true or not.
This piece of @!$%# is lucky he is not facing execution. In wars past if an officer caught him leaking classified information he would have been summarily shot and reported as a friendly fire casualty. Manning's leaking of classified information got at least one Afghan man and his family killed. The military does not like to talk about this fact, but an Afghan man who was helping the US military to root out terrorists was identified in one of the documents that Manning leaked. This man and his family were found executed by terrorists shortly after the leaked documents went public. As far as I am concerned, this make Manning a co-conspirator in the murder of these people and he should be executed. The real reason that Manning leaked the documents is that he was upset over a breakup with his gay lover and blamed the military and the fact that he was deployed for the breakup. Releasing the documents was done in anger as a way to get even with the military for causing his breakup and for the fact that gays were not accepted in the military. It is only now that he is facing trial that Manning has started spewing this self righteous nonsense that it was about provoking discussion about the war. He could have done that without making a massive amount of classified information public. I hope this PoS spends the rest of his life in a military prison at hard labor. He deserves to be executed, but unfortunately the government does not want the backlash from the PC crowd for trying to execute him.
Like I stated earlier I am tossed on this. But for those that want him dead.
What if we are creating more enemies than we are killing by a flawed foreign policy, and said foreign policy will never have a chance of changing unless there is at least some disclosure as to what our current foreign policy entails.
To some degree, I think those that state that secrets should stay secret would have a problem accepting the possibility or probability that our foreign policy is flawed, Instead of accepting the possibility that if we changed our policy there would be less people wanting to attack us.
We as a society can't make informed decisions if we don't have facts and more and more I don't trust old men in government making these decisions for us. Hell, they can't even balance a checkbook, what makes anyone believe that they have the ability to manage foreign policy.
What Got Aspirin? said.
Let him write a confessional to Santa Claus, and then lock his butt up for the rest of his miserable life!!!!
US Military = flushing billions of dollars down the toilet at a record pace.
Enough warmongering! Bring all soldiers home.
Why blame the military? Our leaders are civilians. Proclamations of war come from Congress. The military follows the orders of their civilian masters & that's it. Your equation is bad math.
Why blame the military? Because they insist on buying $1000 flashlights for example. There is an incomprehensible waste and overspending in US Military. I'm not defending the Washington traitors who started and who continue the stupid wars we currently wage. But there is plenty of wrongdoing in the Military itself. And there is plenty of warmongering going on among top brass, just itching to play their war games. Been there, seen that.
Max,
Basically I agree with you but Congress is responsible for huge amounts of waste in the military. They are the ones who force the purchase of weapons systems the military doesn't need or want. But that is what their employers in the defense industry pay them for.
BS, Max
My company sells to all branches of the government, including the military, and they are always looking for the cheapest pricing. We make more money on civilian sales, in fact, we are required by our contract to provide better pricing to the military than our most favored civilian customer, and have to prove it to auditors. The days of the 1000 dollar flashlights and 800 dollar hammers are gone.
Boom is right, however we still have too many no-bid contracts and large expenditures in the military, we're somewhat penny wise and pound foolish.
Umm have you heard of the F-35, Boom? The $1 trillion fighter plane? I highly doubt those are sold to all areas of the government. Up until the last couple of years the DoD was the largest expenditure for this country, comprising nearly 1/3-1/2 of the annual budget. While I am all for making sure our troops have the equipment they need, I highly doubt we need 700+ bases around the world.
Russia is a much bigger country than US, with much greater territorial and security challenges, yet they spend on defense less than 5% of what we spend - and still nobody f...ks with them. Our 'defense' spending is flat out CRIMINALLY INSANE. We spend more on 'defense' (actually it is always 'offense') than the rest of the world combined. As far as I'm concerned, all warmongering politicians regardless of the country they represent should be chopped up into pig food and turned into pig $hit.
DoD spending is just another bureaucratic process. Right now they're looking for the lowest price. But as everyday consumers know, that's not always the best value. A family member working for a company that does DoD contracts and aims to provide value has seen many contracts going to cheaper competitors--companies he's had to work "with" before to clean up after the mess they made. No one making these purchases thinks anymore. They're not permitted to think, and in the end they end up with crap or spending more anyway.
We need to take 10% out of the Dept of OFFENSE budget each year for the next FOUR. NO NEW TOYS.
Ike was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT (and just THINK - even IF we cut 10% per year, we will STILL equal the military budgets of the NEXT FIVE COUNTRIES TOTALED TOGETHER... right NOW we spend as much as the rest of this whole fu cked up world COMBINED - STOP BEING POLICEMAN TO THE WORLD!!! - for FREE, even)
Put a fork in it - on 9/11 we had the highest defense budget of any country and it still didn't help. Supposedly some goons with box cutters were able to hijack FOUR planes in US air space? What a joke. It isn't really the "defense/offense" budget that costs so much - it's all the under-the-table CIA dealings and no-bid contracts that really sucks the taxpayers' money. I gave you a thumbs up for your comment.
Eric: the United States of America can't maintain its global empire without having at least one (and usually many more) military base in each country it has conquered. Why do you think we have a base in Cuba, Italy, Germany, Japan, Korea, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc., etc., etc.?
This is the oldest method of world domination, first done so well by the Romans. You go in, defeat your enemy, set up a government which will be loyal to your point of view (mostly) and leave behind a small contingency force capable of keeping the foothold present if an uprising takes place.
That is why the French threw NATO (and the US) out of their country. They did not want to be part of the US empire.
so laxity on the part of airline operations is somehow connected to the "MILITARY"??' You apparently don't understand what happened 9/11(and that Murphy was not only CORRECT, but an OPTIMIST as well). The military was running in circles BECAUSE they didn't understand that the actions were connected. (I thank you for the agreement otherwise)
PAFII - Yes, it is connected to the military when it concerns national defense. Military does include the Air Force, who were busy with operation Able Danger to respond to hijackers. And, since 9/11 was used as justification to invade the wrong country, it is a military issue.
The idiocy of $600 toilet seats and $1000 flashlights is just that --- idiocy. This was started by a Democrat, Sen William Proxmire who had his numbskulled "Golden Fleece Awards" which supposedly ferreted out waste.
One was a $600 toilet seat for the P-3 Orion aircraft. He thought that was horribly wasteful. He apparenmtly did not know that the P-3 often flew very long missions in which a toilet was a necessity from time to time. He did not understand that the things that the military buys are certified to MilSpecs --- military standards for interoperability, ensuring products meet certain physical requirements, commonality, reliability, total cost of ownership, compatibility with logistics systems, and similar defense-related objectives. If the military is buying 100 fighter aircraft, the documentation for MilSpecs is a mountain of paperwork, but only a tiny, tiny part of the price. But if one is buying three toilet seats, the cost of the paperwork is a major part of the price. In fact the three toilet seats cost $18 each, but the rest was for certifying things like fire resistance, weight, and compliance with a long list of other issues that comprise MilSpecs. This may sound absurd, but overall it keeps suppliers a little more honest than otherwise.
The expensive hammer was an early purchase for the then-secret Blackbird (actually a fighter jet then.) The hammer had to be made completely of titanium with no chrome. Not the kind of thing that you find at the hardware store. It was expensive to fabricare and MilSDpec certify and the poor guy who bought it could not explain why it cost so mych at the time.
well... I saw a report where some plastic "mounts" for the star sight on the KC-135 was involved. This amounted to a plastic "crutch tip" (rigid) with an X machined into the bottom where the X PROTRUDED. Normally, this would be an injection molded plastic part, but the Boeing design said t machine it. There's the cost of the material, the SET-UP and the inspections, delivery, etc etc and the order was only for 18 of the damned things. They cost $500 EACH - why so much? see previous sentence and divide total cost by 18. Could have made 180 for about the same total and maybe 1800 for DOUBLE the total. The military has this HABIT of ordering "spares" in VERY VERY small quantities... and the SET-UP costs just eat them alive
@putafork...
It isn't that the military has a habit of ordering spares in very very small quantities, but that if you look at the age of the aircraft and other equipment involved, only very very small quantities of lots of things are needed. The Orion toilet seat is a good example. They got a set number of spares when the aircraft were initially built. These spares were supposed to last for the lifetime of the aircraft. But the Orion's service life was quite long and some small number of parts in the pool were exhausted and had to be ordered. It is much better to order small numbers of spares in situations like that than to order many more and then not use them. The military is very much aware that the initial "load" of spares is going to be much cheaper than small numbers of indivudual parts that might be needed later and they try very hard to plan accordingly.
But the military's logistics network that manages all this is the most sophisticated in the world. They move huge numbers of spares and equipment with surprising efficiency. They essentially invented JIT logistics and all the early networking of computers was done to build logistics systems.
That said, I did once order an electric typewriter and got a tire for a B-47. But, nobody's perfect.
And that's why the USSR got their asses handed to them by the Afghans.
Most of our technological advances and comforts originate in military laboratories.
.
I would like to see a flip-flop...
Let's exchange budgets for the Department of Defense and Department of Education for about ten years. See how it goes...
Aww Chris... you were actually making good points and sense until that little error. The Blackbird was never used as a fighter jet. While it had been proposed for the earlier model YF-12A (which version was actually armed) to be an Interceptor, it was never used as such as it was deemed to not be suitable for that role. It was too expensive, too fast, and took too long and too much range to simply turn. Only three were built and the plans for the YF-12B scrapped. It's lore was sustained to hide the actual SR-71 Blackbird's existence as the superior reconnaissance aircraft in history.
And in my Navy days, it was still a "manually operated high-impact driving device" that set the US Govt back over $450. Milspec is only part of the "problem." Black Ops funding probably does account for a great deal of "over-expenditures." Of course there are those wonderful companies out there (like Halliburton) that just loves to screw the Government out of money and then scream about the deficit in PAC ads.
Keep up the insight sir. Very revealing at times.
I agree with Carleton. Plus, when you say government you are talking about yourself. "You" are the government and those are your representatives. Why don't you fix that????
I was aware that there was a dog used in the raid on Bin Laden, but I did not know that a seal was involved. Or was the seal used just to 'escort' the body to the bottom of the ocean?
Or, by chance, did you mean a Navy SEAL? Get it right. It's called respect. They deserve it.
It's actually S.E. A.L. You get it right
The SEAL jumped out of the helicopter, bounded up a flight of stairs & shot Bin Laden, all while balancing a ball on his nose.
IF that is your only complaint ( failure to capitalize) you are a being a li'l bit "ANAL RETENTIVE", EH?
I can just see the look of surprise when a seal with a ball on his nose and an M-16 shows up at bin Laden's door. Arf Arf Bang. Quite an image.
Chris from your 2.14 and 2.16 posts, you hit it on the head, that is exactly what my father told me, former M.I., US marines, he was the Cambodian Interperter during the so called Cambodian invasion and a Logistics and combat Cargo Officer after Vietnam, Mil-Specs require extensive testing that turns a $20 part into a $500 part qucikly, unfortunately the average Joe civilian hasn't a clue. And Fork, could be speaking out my ass because I do not know what equipment the military has internally,they seem to like to farm out small jobs, but with the new technology of SLS and other rapidprototyping these days, you would think they would spend a million and get a few machines of their own where they could model, build and process small quantity parts that would pass Mil-Spec standards all in house, and have those machines paid for in one year, if not one quarter.
I DID get it right. Check it out yourself before making a fool of yourself again. Go NAVY!
http://www.navy.com/careers/special-operations.html>
If you want to call showing/demanding the respect that these men deserve being anal retentive, then by all means, call me and the others that have served with and alongside them anal retentive. And BTW, put a fork in it. You're done.
WRONG!!! He is a traitor and should be sent to Gitmo with the other terrorists to await his military trial...FOREVER.
Yep! Because prison without charges and proof is what this country is all about! Remember when we were the good guys?
No, xebico, charged and then sent to Gitmo
Hmm.....the "terrorists" at Gitmo have never been charged with a crime. The US rounded up over 700 of them just because they "looked like terrorists" and then quietly let them go, one by one.
Anyone remember Pvt Eddie Slovik? If not, look him up. Eddie simply refused to rejoin his unit at the front. But Manning put on the uniform under the pretense of serving then rammed a knife in the back of Uncle Sam and all troops honestly serving in and outside of the war zones. He put lives at risk, and should be punished accordingly. However, I do not sanction the death penalty - just a long visit to Ft. Leavenworth, KS.
If this group is so "anti secrecy" as they claim, why won't they disclose the identity of the one who made the recording???
well, now folks - here's the RUB for you TWITS who want him sent to GITMO - like it or NOT (as the case may be) as an AMERICAN CITIZEN serving under the UCMJ, he CANNOT be held without charges and trial "forever". Moreover, even after his anticipated "conviction", there is the opportunity to appeal to the CIVILIAN courts (for errors made during the MILITARY trial.)
Frankly, I really don't CARE what course this action goes (and yes, for you narrow minded bustards about to criticize me - I SERVED IN THE 60's during that OTHER military fiasco - VietNam, so you can not bother). is he a hero? No - but he DID confirm what the majority SUSPECTED - there was FIRE from where that "smoke" originated - of course, all that he managed to do was to cause the gummint (OUR GUMMINT) to retreat into their little cubby holes and turn on their "secrecy" shield of invisibility and further isolate the PUBLIC from the TRUTH of the action.. This was on a par with the "Pentagon Papers" incident (and we KNOW what punishment resulted from THAT - ZERO, ZIP NADA)
five to ten probably - BUT, LIFE? Overkill. (of course, many of you bustards would have him shot, drawn, quartered and his head hung on a pike outside the main pentagon entrance. I'm not so inclined - he deserves punishment but I'm wondering about the extent of that punishment and what VALUE it would SERVE)
MAYBE the military will do a better JOB vetting the "intelligence analysts" in the FUTURE - but THAT is probably "pie in the sky"
WRONG!! he should be treated like any other wistleblower the American people should be made aware what our military is doing in our name.
grant you a grunt under a fire fight can cause unintentional collatoral damage. But there is no excuse for the trigger happy crew of the appache helo thousands feet away who were not under fire enjoyed killing unarmed civilians so that they can brag their war stories when they get back home
Unfortunately, this is not the only incident
WOW...Okay then maybe Mr. Obama should just a send a drone after him...problem solved. NEXT!!!!
Too bad his opinion isn't worth a used napkin. He obviously doesn't understand how a military oath works. Hang this traitor.
Luckily like that napkin he too can be recycled. Its a "green thing" .
And the last i knew any Pfc's opinion wasn't exactly a statement in brilliance. Where did this guy boot? They use to teach that simple fact very well. Too damn bad he didn't understand that HE worked for the US. Army...not visa versa.
Mr. Manning is lucky - 70 years ago he would have faced a firing squad. What he did is absolutely inexcusable & definitely a crime. Whistleblower my A--. If you don't like what you see or do in the military - GET OUT - then you can protest or work your pie-hole all you want. But, while you're in, you do the job or refuse to do the job & face the consequences. You do NOT put others lives' at risk by launching your own crusade. You do NOT violate the tenets of national security. You're a 20-something Private; shut up and do what you're told.
And all of you who think he's a hero, for taking on the evil military-industrial complex, are WRONG. This person's actions probably already have, and certainly still will, cause(d) the deaths of others in the military. Cut his nuts off.
Where is this world headed all war crazy, nuts, killing of women and children should never be ok and there should be respect for life and life that has been taken this world is coming down quick
Charlton-2337822, I doubt you can even prove a single death as a result of his actions. So much for your rhetoric.
He provided material support for the enemy, case closed. That alone is enough to send this little pencil-necked dickweed to the pokey for the rest of his natural life. When we deployed to the M.E. for O.D.S., there was a fellow in our company that suddenly became a "conscience objector" right after we deployed to S.A. We actually had to guard this idiot the entire time we were deployed, even through two combat zones. Much like this little idiot, he found it convenient to change his tune when the going got tough. Well, that's just too damn bad. As "Charlton" put it, when you're a 20-something year old private, it's not your place to violate the tenets of National Security when you witness collateral damage. Hell, it's not even a General's place to criticize our policy (Rolling Stone article...). This little worm is a coward, and a traitor. He should have been put down a long time ago.
Yea Charlton shut up and do as your told. With you thinking we would still be a British Colony. Sheep always jump when another jumps.
@"Scave", once again, for all of you that have never served our Great Nation. In the military you are given orders that you must follow, unless they are UNLAWFUL orders. This little idiot took an OATH that he would do exactly that, just as millions of other servicemembers have before him, and thereby providing YOU the freedom that you are enjoying this very minute. Your brainless posts are exacly that, brainless, and pointless.
Charleton - do you REMEMBER "THE PENTAGON PAPERS"?? Do you remember what punishment was meted out for THAT?
70 years ago, a President & Vice President which led us into war based on lies would have both wound up in jail - at best.
Today?
Americans, for the most part, have lost the required ability to actually think for themselves - to such an extent that a horrific war based on lies not only goes unpunished - but is celebrated!
WMD, anyone? And whatever happened to all those Saudi Royals who fled the country after 9-11 - with the help of the U.S. government, not even to be inconvenienced by questioning, despite the fact that the 9-11 terrorists were mostly Saudis?
Green Day: Idiot America. Spot on for the majority of today's citizens.
Punish the ones who actually lied us into a disastrous war? Heavens no! Celebrate them as uber-Patriots who love the Fatherland. Those who expose the truth of our governments actions? Hang the traitors!
And then go back to saluting the flag, enveloped in a blanket of impenetrable ignorance.
NPCDan, his first oath is to the Constitution. The military comes second. Secondly, he only released it to Wikileaks, not to the enemy, so you can stop lying. Those who follow orders without question aren't patriots, they're i-d-i-o-t-s who cannot think.
@NPCDan & @Charleton,
The Nuremberg trials changed all that. I guess that is why @Charleton wants to go back 70 years --- before Nuremberg.
The Nuremberg trials made three important contributions to international law. First, they established a precedent that all persons, regardless of their station or occupation in life, can be held individually accountable for their behavior during times of war. Defendants cannot insulate themselves from personal responsibility by blaming the country, government, or military branch for which they committed the particular war crime.
Second, the Nuremberg trials established that individuals cannot shield themselves from liability for war crimes by asserting that they were simply following orders issued by a superior in the chain of command. Subordinates in the military or government are now bound by their obligations under international law, obligations that transcend their duty to obey an order issued by a superior. Orders to initiate aggressive (as opposed to defensive) warfare, to violate recognized rules and customs of warfare, or to persecute civilians and prisoners are considered illegal under the Nuremberg principles.
Third, the Nuremberg trials clearly established three discrete substantive war crimes that are punishable under international law: crimes against peace, crimes against humanity, and crimes in violation of transnational obligations embodied in treaties and other agreements. Before the Nuremberg trials, these crimes were not well defined, and persons who committed such crimes had never been punished by a multinational tribunal.
You will notice that Nuremberg firmly established that is a person is ordered to do something wrong and knowingly does it, he is culpable. One could argue that Manning was in this position because he saw the was as a collection of small and large wrongs. If this is what he saw, his options were to cower down and accept it or to speak up and risk everything to try to correct the wrong.
When you get into morality it is a complicated business.
Johnathan Ivan - Well said. If there is anything the "party zombies" could stand to learn from this is that 95% of government officials voted to invade Iraq based on faulty intelligence. That means DFL and GOP.
The ones who disagreed, Tom Daschle and Paul Wellstone, paid the price - Daschle receiving an "anthrax letter" and Wellstone via plane crash.(Wellstone was warned by Cheney that he "had better drop the 9/11 thing")
People will be able to see things a lot more clearly when they take their GOP/DFL blinders off and start researching the story behind the story (behind the story).
I know Cynthia McKinney was vilified in the press for standing up for common sense in the face of 9/11 but truly, her voice needs to be heard:
"I asked Cynthia McKinney why President Obama had deserted the leadership role bestowed upon him by the American people and instead had fallen into the agenda of the Bush/Cheney/neoconservative Republicans. She replied that: The policy of killing that is being carried out by President Obama has wiped out all of the moral credit that Black America accrued over their years of resistance to slavery, Jim Crow, racism, poverty, and militarism. The world understood that Black Americans had a different set of values. That they were against wars, against interference in the affairs of other countries, against imperialism, against colonialism, and against White Supremacy. Now, too many Black Americans cheer a President who defends targeted assassination, drone wars in Africa and elsewhere around the world, boots on the ground globally for the military-industrial-complex, and even torture. Sadly, now much of Black America has chosen to abdicate its moral responsibility and spend whatever moral credit they have earned globally in support of an African descendant President who has ripped to shreds the Bill of Rights, damaged life for tens of thousands of innocent individuals here and abroad hurt by the policies of this Administration, not to mention those who have been killed and will be deformed due to the massive depleted uranium being used.
I asked Cynthia McKinney if Washington's doctrine that "might makes right" would bring "freedom and democracy" to the world. She replied that:
The military might of the US is being used to benefit a very small group of men and women who have the rest of humankind hoodwinked as to the true nature of what is going on. The rest of humankind can't imagine that amount of greed and willingness to kill and so, are easily fooled and tricked by the individuals who control the new system that is being created. It is, sadly, a case of "willful blindness."
http://www.allthingscynthiamckinney.com/node/407
Anybody up to taking a pot shot at Manning and Timm? I wish someone would. These two sick sons of pigs should both be hanged! Our country is on a downward spiral because of people who deify bastards like these. Those people who support this kind of activity should be ashamed of themselves. Their ignorance is only exceeded by their ignorance.
Typical @!$%# reply. "Durrr... I don't like someone, let's shoot 'em. Murica!"
What do you want to do, shoot him and then court martial him? If a Bradley Manning had been around when President Johnson was in office, there may not have been a Vietnam War, thus saving the lives of 58,000 fine Americans. I already know advisors were there as early as 1958. Johnson escalated it into a shooting war with lies similiar to Bushs WMD's.
Zheng, you can't just throw history around like that, there were plenty of them around, just not with the ready access to media and mass information that we have today. We were in Vietnam right after Dien Bien Phu, Eisenhower brought us into the Vietnam conflict, yes LBJ escalated it and on lies, but people forget that governments lie; it was a time of countering Communism, we knew what was best for everyone, heck we still do. But to think Vietnam would never have happend is a stretch, if there was a Bradley Manning at that time he would have already been tried and shot for treason. The reason he is still awaiting trial is a result of the Vietnam war and all those fine soldiers who died so that we can question government and the so called rightousness of war. It took the will of the people to get us out of Vietnam. Time for this same will to get us out of Afghanistan.
History will show the what the government did to Bradley Manning as one of America's greatest debacles.
No not really. The twerp really isn't all that memorable. Soon as the trial ends, this will fade into history.
I'm already reaching the "who cares" realm.
BS. If we survive to write some more history, it will be because the US Military stood on the wall and kept watch so the academics could sit, think & write. Bradley Manning is nothing. Cap Him.
Only in la-la-lib land Liz. If you support this traitor might i suggest holding his hand from the adjutant cell.
( GM TF)
Liz, the debacle is that they haven't executed him
"Debacles"??? Are you freaking serious? You've obviously never served, and therefore have no "skin" in the game. I'm sure he'll be lauded in the hallowed halls of the Ivy League academia, but no where else.
NPC - it IS a debacle (and YES, I served in the 60's)
It's not the same military as it was when even I served, and that was in the late 80's. But the rules still apply, and the last time I checked, supplying aid to the enemy, in any form whatsoever, is treason.
@NPCDan,
The last time I checked, the Constitution said: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in
levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."
In other words, Treason only takes place in declared wars (the last one was WWII) and every act must witnessed by at least two witnesses or an open court confession. And Congress, not the military or even the Commander in Chief, declares the punishment for treason.
The reason that treason was defined this way was because during the Revolutionary War, around 20% of the people supported the revolution, 20% supported the Crown, and 60% of the people were sitting on the fence trying to survive day-to-day and "giving aid and comfort" to whoever had control of their town at any given moment. If treason had been defined in the traditional European way, 80% of all Americans would have been guilty of treason. So they narrowed down the criteria to people who had done serious acts that did serious damage to the country. In all, only 24 people have ever been convicted of treason (and one was reversed and several others are doubtful.)
@"Chris", well played. I do admire the fact that you are using the Constitution in your arguments, so very few do so. And the historical significance is not lost on me. Now, I'm not a Constitutional scholar by any means, but I read the sentence, "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in
levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.", to read that treason can take place in declared wars, "OR in adhering to their Enemies..." (Awlaki, although I don't recall the two witnesses, or an open court confession...). Neither of which this little thing did, but you could offer a strong argument for "giving then Aid and Comfort.". I did see where someone posted that an Afghani man and his family were executed based on some of the information that was released by Wikileaks, provided by manning. I don't know the veracity of this claim, but I believe it would fall under "giving them Aid...".
A hacker and his loyal minion the traitor. Why is he still in uniform? he does not rate it and every time i see him it makes my blood boil as i am certain it does every vet. . shoot this P.O.S. already. and his puppet-master as well.
Perhaps because he remembers what this country actually stands for?
what evil did he uncover?
gummint say one thing but actually DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT (to keep the public in the mushroom category - keep 'em in the dark and feed 'em BULLS HIT - remember the "body counts from 'Nam"?)
Let me see, in an age where everyone is screaming formore transparency, where do we draw the line? I, for one, think much of what we don't know, pertaining to the military, is none of our business. This kid followed somones' direction, end of story. Whoever it was needs to found.
Message to the military judge: I'm available for this little dirtbag's firing squad. Call me.
We could sell lottery tickets to see who gets to shoot this poc and use the money to fund Whitehouse tours..
message to jarhead - you are aptly named
Message to put a fork in it: still time to grow a pair. Questions?
He won't Jarhead. He's still bitter about serving in Nam. I'm guessing he's a big fan of Jane Fonda and John Kerry as well.
Thanks Dan. That explains a lot.
Jarhead sends (12th Marines in Vietnam; 11th Marines in Desert Storm).
Oh, hey, I'll volunteer too!
Can I use my Weatherby? The rest of the squad could shoot blanks and he'd still have a very large "wound," especially on the exit side.
People need to stop brining up Nam (Not calling anyone out here). Thats in the past and they need to move on. This day and age is more dangerous then it was do to advance in technology. No one country has the best recorded with their leaders. Jarhead and NPCDan bring up good points.
I had my pair before you were even a gleam in your daddy's eye dim bulb - try 1966 BEEN THERE DONE THAT - GOT OUT AND SAID "GOOD RIDDANCE" in '68
care to TRY AGAIN?
I won't take sh it from a sea-going bellhop
OK you ARE apparently older than I thought. Sounded like one of the "kids" and I'm not taking sh it from any kid. Didn't particularly care for KERRY (only because at the time I felt that he was disingenuous to the "rest of us") and Jane was cute in Barbarella but I never paid any attention to her other than that. BTW - 'Nam was at least as much of a fiasco as IRAQ (just a lower US body count - loved the philosophy of "Declare VICTORY ...THEN RUN LIKE HELL!!")
@NPCDan,
Kerry????? Kerry was a Swift Boat Commander in Vietnam. He was awarded three Purple Hearts, one Silver Star and one Bronze Star with V device. He lost five close friends, including his best friend Dick Pershing in the war. Critics that surfaced in the election were paid liars. Kerry's war record was supported by nine of the ten living crewmen who served under him (the tenth had Alzheimer's.) The Silver Star was presented by Adm Zumwalt because he was impressed by Kerry's courage and coolness under fire (as reported to him by his son.)
"Critics that surfaced in the election were paid liars."
So, you're saying that Mr. Kerry was paid to throw his hard earned medals away, and then have the temerity to call his fellow servicemen "murderers"? Okay then. You can paint him in any light you wish, and I'll do the same, but I will not give respect where none is deserved.
Not clear on why a non-military organization -- or anything other than the military -- is subject to military rules. ("[T]he group acknowledges the recording was made in violation of military rules...") So? I don't have to take orders from a officer, why should they?
They are subject to the rules of the court...... prosecute them for conspiracy
Ellsberg was a TRAITOR.... maybe he can hold Manning's hand at the firing squad
ACTUALLY - they are NOT subject to UCMJ - as non-military, the laws (all of them) take precedence. You have the legal knowledge of a slug and I might even be giving the slug too much credit
As civilians, no, they are not beholden to the UCMJ, however, they are subject to the presiding judges' ruling. Find them, and hold them in contempt, and throw them in jail. Pretty simple actually...
We are well into the financial war of a century and most of us don't even know it. Globalization is about distributing working America jobs across the globe. We are being invaded from the south and by wire from all nations working against us. It is long past time that we woke up and realized we are helping our enemy.
Thank you to all you vets who served honorably. Bradley Manning does not deserve to be acknowledged or allowed to wear the Army uniform...Desert Storm Vet 10yrs US ARMY 1/41Inf 2AD(fwd)
Hoowah "Bill"! Desert Storm Vet, 3 yrs US Army, C. Co, 23rd Eng. Bn., 3rd Brigade, 3rd A.D., and thank you for your service sir.
Bill, NPC Dan, thank you both for serving. I'm still serving myself and resepect you all.
Thank you Mr. John Smith1209, for your current service to our Great Nation. Godspeed sir, and I pray that you, and all others deployed, return to your families and loved ones, whole of mind, body, and spirit. Keep the faith, and drive on!
I don't feel real sorry for the military they classify just about everything. This notion that these soldiers in Afghanistan or Iraq are protecting our freedom is such b/s. The only thing they are protecting is muti- national corporations profits. We take young and gullible girls and boys and hang the banner of phony patriotism on them and they are the ones who have to pay the ultimate price and be scarred and maimed for life and the sad thing many of them won't even get proper medical treatment when they get back.
Dave, your views are overly simplistic. No sane person would seriously think that we send our troops over to the Mideast simply to generate profits for defense contractors. It's a side effect, not a reason.
It's all about profits. Ike warned us of the power of the Military Industrial Complex. Sadly we still haven't listened. I am 56 yrs. old and we haven't been in a shooting war in my lifetime that we should have been in. We haven't been attacked by anyone in my lifetime. Please don't talk that stupid 9/11 crap as it was not a nation that attacked us. We have attacked so many nations in my life that we now make the ancient Romans look like a peace loving bunch.
I'm sane, and I believe Dave.
I never did buy into the lies, "they just want democracy", and "he's killing his own people."
It's no different than if a bunch of Americans tried to overthrow the American government and got shot. Would the PC crowd start screaming, "they just want democracy" and "he's killing his own people."
The difference is in the Middle East, foreign mercenaraies and Islamists radicals are trying to overthrow the governments.
IRAQ - a military action STARTED on a WHIM and a LIE, kept off the BOOKS and essentially INTERMINABLE.
Thank you, you sunuva BIT CH SHRUB... THANKS FOR NOTHING
ug1 - Do you really think Iraq attacked the US? The US went after Saddam because he wouldn't bow to the IMF or the World Bank and allow us to extort their natural resources, so we invaded Iraq. Even if you believe the "story" that a bunch of Arabs attacked us on 9/11, those "Arabs" were officially reported to be Saudis - not Iraqis, and not Afghanis!
We have no business asking our troops to invade another country for its resources. It's just sickening.
Google Sibel Edmonds and Susan Lindauer. See how far their whistleblowing got them.
Dave, and exactly how many combat tours did you serve ? If you have never served , you know nothing of the oath that our service members pledge, the sacrifices they make , and the honor and pride in which they wear the uniform. Your patriotims may be phony, but mine sir is not
To bad you couldn't have learned reading comprehension in the service. I said nothing but praise for you kids but when you are in your 20s or teens you are naive.
no, bill it wasn't out of "patriotism " that you served any more that it was "patriotism" that forced MY service in the 60's - you remember - the time of CONSCRIPTION? The DRAFT... of course, the only thing valuable that I got from the military was 20% service connected disability...
@bill,
I served for ten years in the military and one tour in Vietnam and was starting a second when I was transferred to another job. I didn't wear a uniform much, but I originally wore it with pride. But during and after Vietnam, that uniform was stained by Johnson's and Nixon's lies and I no longer had any pride in it.
Just like Iraq and Afghanistan (and Panama and Grenada and others) we should not have been in Vietnam. We gave our word that Vietnam would have a winner take all election ten years after partition. When nine years had elapsed it was very apparent that the South Vietnamese government was corrupt and lacked the support of the people and that Ho Chi Minh would win the election with more than 75% of the vote. So we broke our word and tried to intervene. Not a good reason to go to war. But numerous lies by both Johnson and Nixon did not help. The Gulf of Tonkin incident, especially, was completely fabricated. I have seen the radar tapes from both incidents and it is obvious that in the first the Maddox attacked first and that there were never any Vietnamese ships at all in the second. And the bombing in Laos and Cambodia added to the bad. Americans were happy to ship their young men off to die, but optherwise their heart never was in it. That's why we lost.
But don't think that everyone who served always wore the uniform with pride. Numerous people have soiled the uniform from time to time and the pride evaporates quickly when that happens.
Chris, too bad you let civilians stain your uniform, soldiers do what soldiers are asked to do, and only recently (last 50+ years or so) has the ability to question orders come into play; as you mentioned -Nuremburg. I know fork was drafted that one was easy to catch, how about you? The only reason i ask this is that we have a total volunteer military today, well for the most part anyway, i know there are not many options for young kids these days and the military can be a good one for some. But if this were a drafted militray I am sure you would see a lot more anti-war information flying around. I told my nephew when he joined the Marines that if he comes home and complains about it i would deck him. He is now a drill instructor at MCRD, he has found his temporary home. If nothing else take pride in those, your friends and comrads who did wear the uniform with pride and died doing so. There are some of us who still remember your sacrifice to country which was much greater than those today, because you were called to fight, and didnt have a choice other than skipping town, which proves the person you are. - Peace.
Very well said "Daveyboy". Very well said indeed.
Bradley Manning for president!
nah - he's sort of a nit-wit
Government secrecy at an all-time high? WHAT? We have a more open government than any time in history. This guy is nuts! Then going on to say Manning should be commended is just over the top bat sh*t crazy.
Why not let Manning run the CIA?
The reality of the military and defense of a nation is that it is not all pretty and politically correct. To denegrate a soldier who upholds an oath to protect and serve his country, and obey the lawful orders of his superiors seems to be very easy for those who don't have the moral conviction or courage to serve. Likewise to praise the traitous behavior of someone who cannot be bothered to uphold that same oath that he also voluntarily took, is outrageous. Two different paths, but both with the same escape, if you disagree with the policies and procedures, finish your enlistment and get out. Military service is not a life sentence. Just because you don't want to play anymore does not give you the right to demolish the playground. In more than a decade of service, there were a lot of moments that left a bad taste in my mouth, but nothing so bad that I would have risked the security of this country for my own selfish motives.
Risk the security of our nation??? Yea some risk exposing liars. Put what he leaked into perspective and that is why they take youngsters to war. They are young and naive.
MORAL CONVICTION TO SERVE - sonny, I didn't have a CHOICE except to go to Canada (EH!) and I wasn't willing to do that
Give me a break. Manning is nothing more than an insecure man-child who never grew up. He searched for a way to fit in and found it in a "movement" full of immature misfits who think the world is all setup to go against them and ran by some evil coalition. Sorry, the world is what it is and war isn't pretty. Mr. Manning uncovered nothing of susbtance and is nothing but an depressed person who needs help.
Well said Brent.
that too, but it's not an execution worthy violation...
WHAT ABOUT THAT TRANSPARENCY WE WERE PROMISED? lolololol, Keep joining the military you morons... The system needs you to support more war, violence, and lies. @!$%# the state, anarchy today! @!$%# your country and other @!$%#-like tendencies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No more lies, no more war crimes, and no more nationalist idiots!
The military should be disbanded. Only causes more debt and war.
LOL love people, whats the weather like on your planet?
well, without the military, it WOULD be difficult to stop the US from being over-run by "furriners" ...
What right does this page have to censor MY WORDS? What happened to freedom of speech? Guess you gays win, keep dressing alike and sleeping together in foreign countries! Just quit murdering brown kids and creating enemies for us at home, you're not protecting ANYONE'S freedom by doing that.
Trust me, you are the absolute last person they are trying to protect, actually they are learning how to kill more effeciently and probably would have you on their list when they do return. Your words suck therefore they get sensored butt munch. So you don't like browns and gays, you are doing a fine job of creating enemies all your own. POS.
“The most alarming aspect of the video to me…was the seeming delightful blood lust the Aerial Weapons Team seemed to have,” Manning said. “They dehumanized the individuals they were engaging and seemed to not value human life, and referred to them as quote, unquote, ‘dead bastards.’”
This statement alone demonstrates his naivete at the very least. It is not at all unusual for soldier in the midst of combat operations to dehumanize their enemy or perceived enemy. People engage in gallows humour all the time to reduce stress - try to listen in to staff conversations in an emergency room sometime. My mother, a nurse, used to say that people were anesthetized during surgery at least in part so they couldn't hear the dirty jokes the surgeons were telling.
Manning didn't fit in, had no friends, made a friend on-line who used Manning's loneliness and gullibility to extract information from him for their own purposes. He was convinced he was doing something noble when in fact he was being played for a patsy.
I think it was a Marine General who said it was fun killing bad guys. It is and when having fun, people say things. You can bet when the Soldiers arrived at the scene and pulled the kids out of the van, those pilots went from killing bastards to freaking out inside. Still, they have a job to do and it is one of the hardest on earth. Little baby Manning just didn't get it, went against all of his non-disclosure agreements and chose to become a traitor to his country. Hang him!
Thanks for taking Point Eglenn....You nailed it
Anybody ever hear of the UCMJ ? Its the Uniform Code of Military Justice....Right before You are sworn in to the military they explain it to you...You do NOT have the rights of an ordinary citizen of the United States any longer, you are subject to a completely different set of laws....This Guy is a Traitor, plain and simple
Its easy for a group of People to stand around the wtaercooler and debate about whether He is a whistleblower or not, particularly if they've never had the "moral conviction" to serve their country, unfortunately, you don't know what the heck you're talking about. It was the ChickenHawks that got us into this mess over there in the first place.....
BULLS HIT - they don't explain the UCMJ - it's too damned difficult to explain other than "We have control over your body and everything you do for the term of your enlistment" CONSTITUTIONAL provisions are for the most part SUSPENDED while you are in the military (as they should be - the commander and up have to be able to deal with their OWN issues without needing to have a civil trial every time something "happens")
I have to agree with fork here Moose, to expect a 18 year old puke to understand the UCMJ is a sretch, heck half the JAGs in the service don't, so I am told...but yes i do agree this little maggot needs to face trial and do time, if it is determined that the information leaked led to even one death of a US Citizen, in uniform or not, then the death penalty or life sentance is appropriate.