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Subscribe to RSSInternet security experts are keeping a close eye on a case in Miami that may be the first of its kind --an attempt to fraudulently obtain absentee election ballots online. Correspondent Mark Potter reports this is being seen as a wake up call to the risks involved in voting on line
An attempt to illegally obtain absentee ballots in Florida last year is the first known case in the U.S. of a cyberattack against an online election system, according to computer scientists and lawyers working to safeguard voting security.
The case involved more than 2,500 “phantom requests” for absentee ballots, apparently sent to the Miami-Dade County elections website using a computer program, according to a grand jury report on problems in the Aug. 14 primary election. It is not clear whether the bogus requests were an attempt to influence a specific race, test the system or simply interfere with the voting. Because of the enormous number of requests – and the fact that most were sent from a small number of computer IP addresses in Ireland, England, India and other overseas locations – software used by the county flagged them and elections workers rejected them.
Computer experts say the case exposes the danger of putting states’ voting systems online – whether that’s allowing voters to register or actually vote.
“It’s the first documented attack I know of on an online U.S. election-related system that’s not (involving) a mock election,” said David Jefferson, a computer scientist at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory who is on the board of directors of the Verified Voting Foundation and the California Voter Foundation.
Other experts contacted by NBC News agreed that the attempt to obtain the ballots is the first known case of a cyberattack on voting, though they noted that there are so many local elections systems in use that it's possible that a similar attempt has gone unnoticed.
There have been allegations of election system hacking before in the U.S., but investigations of irregularities have found only software glitches, voting machine failures, voter error or inconclusive evidence. Where there has been evidence of a computer security breach -- such as a 2006 incident in Sarasota, Fla., in which a computer worm that had been around for years raised havoc with the county elections voter database -- it was unclear whether the worm's appearance was timed to interfere with the election.
In any case, experts say they’ve been warning about this sort of attack for years.
Tim Chapman / Miami Herald
About 2,000 rejected absentee ballots at Miami-Dade Elections Department, mostly for lack of signatures or review of signatures from the last election.
“This has been in the cards, it’s been foreseeable,” said law Professor Candice Hoke, founding director of the Center for Election Integrity at Cleveland State University.
The primary election in Miami-Dade County in August 2012 involved state and local races along with U.S. Senate and congressional contests (see a sample ballot here). The Miami Herald, which first reported the irregularities, said the fraudulent requests for ballots targeted Democratic voters in the 26th Congressional District and Republicans in Florida House districts 103 and 112. None of the races’ outcomes could have been altered by that number of phantom ballots, the Herald said.
Overseas “anonymizers” -- proxy servers that make Internet activity untraceable -- kept the originating computers’ location secret and prevented law enforcement from figuring out who was responsible, according to the grand jury report, issued in December. The state attorney’s office closed the case in January without being able to identify a suspect.
Read the Miami-Dade County grand jury report (PDF)
Then came the Herald report, which said that three IP addresses in the United States had been identified among those sending the requests and that there had been a delay in getting that information to investigators, which a Miami-Dade elections official confirmed to NBC News. Terry Chavez, spokeswoman for the state attorney’s office for Miami-Dade County, also confirmed to NBC News that the investigation was reopened to look into those IP addresses. Chavez said she could release no details on the investigation.
Rep. Joe Garcia won the Democratic primary in the 26th District and went on to win the general election. Jeff Garcia, his chief of staff and no relation, said last week that no state or federal investigators had contacted the congressman's office about the case.
State Rep. Jose Javier Rodriguez, a Democrat who won the District 112 seat, said Thursday that his office had not heard from investigators about the case either. A message left at the legislative office of state Rep. Manny Diaz Jr., the Republican who won the primary and the general election in District 103, was not immediately returned.
The Herald report said that as the requests began coming in, elections officials figured out that they were improper and started blocking the IP addresses. “I guess they finally gave up,” the newspaper quoted Bob Vinock, an assistant deputy elections supervisor for information systems, as saying.
People who study election security say the fact that this attempt did not succeed should be of little comfort to election officials. They warn that attempts to attack voting systems are likely to increase.
“In this case the attack was not as sophisticated as it could have been, and it was easy for elections officials to spot and turn back,” said J. Alex Halderman, an assistant professor of computer science and engineering at the University of Michigan who studies the security of electronic voting. “An attack somewhat more sophisticated than the one in Florida, completely within the norm for computer fraud these days, would likely be able to circumvent the checks.”
Fraudulently obtaining absentee ballots is just one way elections might be subverted by digital means, experts say. Among the other methods and attack points:
- Malware. Rogue software infects millions of home computers across the country. Jefferson said hackers could use malware to change votes or prevent them from being cast in an online election.
- Denial of service attacks. Jefferson said that hackers could use botnets to prevent election-system servers from working for hours, or perhaps longer. In fact, during an election in June 2012, a DOS attack hit the San Diego County Registrar of Voters' website, preventing voters from tracking the results.
- “Spoofing” of election websites. For example, Hoke said, legitimate requests for absentee ballots could be misdirected to another site. The data then could be misused, or the requests could hit a dead end, and voters would be left wondering where their ballots were.
- Exploiting software flaws in digital voting machines, known as DREs. The flaws could allow insertion of viruses or alteration of programming code that would change votes or delete them. (Read one description of hacking a voting machine.)
- Tampering with email return of marked ballots. Experts say email return is troublesome because of the multiple points for attack along the ballots’ electronic path. “The overwhelming consensus of the computer science community is don’t do it, it’s a bad idea,” said Jeremy Epstein, a senior computer scientist at SRI International. But in about half the states, email absentee ballot return is an option for members of the military and their families, along with some other U.S. citizens living overseas.
- Wholesale hijacking of an online voting system. In 2010, the District of Columbia Board of Elections and Ethics tested an Internet-based voting system for a week, asking computer experts to probe it for flaws. It took only 48 hours for a team led by Halderman to break in and take control of the site – even altering it so that the University of Michigan fight song played after a vote was cast.
Read the University of Michigan researchers’ report on the DC hack (PDF)
In terms of illegally getting access to absentee ballots, Epstein said, the attacker or attackers who failed in Florida might have had an easier time with Washington state and Maryland.
He said that last summer he demonstrated to the FBI a method of changing individual voters’ addresses and other information online in those two states by predicting their driver’s license numbers.
J Pat Carter / AP file
Absentee ballots for the general election marked for delivery to the U.S. Postal Service for mailing are seen at the Miami-Dade County election center in Doral, Fla., on Oct. 5.
First he used publicly available information to gain a voter’s full name and address. Then, he predicted the individual’s driver’s license number – which is based on a combination of the person’s name and numbers and letters -- and used the information to access their voter registration online. From there, he said, he could have changed their addresses and had absentee ballots sent out.
“Imagine if (attackers) changed the address for 2,500 votes. It could be completely automated, and they have the ballots sent to a post office box or whatever,” Epstein said. “Then the registered voters would have no idea until they tried to vote.”
In October, Halderman and other researchers sent letters warning elections officials in both states of the danger of staking system security on driver’s license numbers.
The letter to Washington officials (read it here in PDF) also said that other security features in the state’s MyVote system would be only a speed bump to a dedicated hacker.
“Although the MyVote system uses a CAPTCHA, an image of distorted text intended to deter simple automated attacks, this provides only minimal defense,” the letter says. “Attackers can use commercial services to defeat the CAPTCHA at a cost of less than $0.001 per voter.”
Shane Hamlin, assistant director of elections in the Washington Secretary of State's Office, told NBC News that state election officials have acted on the recommendations in the October letter and will require additional information to register to vote or change registration online.
Maryland election officials did not immediately return a call from NBC News seeking comment, but the Washington Post reported last month that Ross K. Goldstein, deputy administrator of the Maryland State Board of Elections, acknowledged the security hole and said the online voter registration system was being updated to address the issue.
“I believe technology can solve problems, and there are steps that we definitely can, and plan to, take to mitigate the risks,” the newspaper quoted him as saying.
While elections officials are attracted to the savings that online voting and registration systems promise, the cost of guarding online registration and voting systems is large, Hoke said. And that might negate the financial advantage of online balloting touted by some elections officials and vendors who want to sell electronic voting products.
“It’s cheap, if you don’t care whether elections are stolen,” she said.
That possibility -- of an election being stolen through digital means -- haunts researchers. For Jefferson, it’s a matter of national security.
“The legitimacy of government depends on it being impossible for single parties to change the results of elections,” he said.
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Florida again! What a coincidence. Let's see who is behind the tampering. We can start by questioning the dirty tricks of the GOP!
Yeah, because Miami Dade County is 100% DEMOCRAT! Nice try!
How do you think the DNC wins elections with DEAD PEOPLE VOTING?????? Absentee ballots!
BAN ABSENTEE BALLOTS!!
The fact the article doesn't clearly state that is was an effort by the democrats is proof as NBC never, ever calls out dem wrong doing. Just as the GOP thought- Dems will do anything to win and I'm sure most will defend this. That is what the country is facing.
Exactly. Cyber attacks or more Koch Brother/GOTP meddling? I vote for the later.
I always wonder about the counties in the N.E. states where 100% of the vote was for Obama and not a single vote showed up for the dingus running against Obama. Of course, many thousands of votes by the military were lost or too late to count.
We really need proof of citizenship to vote now. Legal voters will not mind. Illegal voters and the ones counting on the illegal vote will be screaming their heads off. Just my opinion as a registered voter.
let's not forget the fine work of James O’Keefe and Project Veritas, which demonstrated, over and over again on camera, the willingness and ability of Democratic operatives to cheat and commit fraud to win elections
Liberals don't like to talk about that, nah, they say huh? what? where?
They hate facts, they just spin the truth CONSTANTLY, just read their posts.
I see the Repubs are still out, trying to divert attention from themselves by attacking Dems. SSDD.....as my kids used to say, the smeler is the teller, or he who attacks first is the guilty one. The only way Repubs can win any national election is by cheating, proved over and over again.
Would that be the same James O'Keefe who just lost a court case and is fined $100,000 for fraud &/or libel in deliberatly editing a tape from his false anti-ACORN report? He wanted to discredit the ACORN employee who called the cops on him when he did the fake report on ACORN. Yeah, he and his Project Veritas are one reliable news source.
So how did Romney lose a race that numerous reputable polls and pundits predicted would be an easy win, based on historical patterns?
The most realistic explanation is voter fraud in a few swing states. According to the Columbus Dispatch, one out of every five registered voters in Ohio is ineligible to vote.
In at least two counties in Ohio, the number of registered voters EXCEEDED the number of eligible adults who are of voting age.
In northwestern Ohio's Wood County, there are 109 registered voters for every 100 people eligible to vote. An additional 31 of Ohio's 88 counties have voter registration rates over 90%, which most voting experts regard as suspicious.
Obama miraculously won 100% of the vote in 21 districts in Cleveland, and received over 99% of the vote where GOP inspectors were illegally removed.
but AGAIN
the Democrats don't like to talk about that.....
@Fed....yeah, I remember oh so well, when the imbecile from Texas, lost to Florida against Gore....and miraculously (even though all major TV stations had called Florida for Gore), Jebby Bush, the then governor, guaranteed his brother would win Florida. Speculation is lots of ballots went missing in a democrat heavy district. Surprised? Not really, after all they are both Bushes. Doesn't matter if you vote in person or absentee, you still have to prove your a registered voter.
Roger,
First you suggest that James O'Keefe is a reliable news source, in spite of the fact that he was recently found to be deliberately libelous and fined $100,000. Now you list the Columbus Dispatch's report of a right wing fallacy as fact, when the Cleveland Plain Dealer's Political Facts news investigators found that report to rate highest on its "lies" meter - a "Pants on Fire" lie. Democrats LOVE to talk about this - another right wing lie which gullible readers tout before checking its veracity.
Am I the only one who saw the interviews with the ACORN employees when the fraud was taking place?
Am I the only one who saw on national tv, the black panthers intimidating voters?
I must be Tigger, so that makes me bouncy and trouncy and having fun, fun, fun!
Folks, this is an American problem. The parties are just power holders until we say otherwise. You can point the finger at the other party, but that will just embolden yours to pull dirty tricks. Advocate for the right thing, not for the party.
The US should implement voting like they do in Iran. You must show up to vote yourself with documentation and fill out a paper ballot. When you are done, dip your finger in indelible ink so you can't vote again.
That would eliminate any question of fraud from either party.
UN-Truman, you are forgetting that the entire Florida vote was re-counted by many different groups, including liberal newspapers, and not ONE called the election for Gore! You would think that if Bush had lost at least one of these liberal organs would have said that there was fraud, but, it did not happen! And, I noticed, that there was not a single insinuation in this entire story that Republicans were behind the "so-called" voter fraud. In fact, with these stories from liberal-leaning groups, it is much more possible that there were attempts, in not actual voter fraud, from the dems!
There's great irony in this. Because Gore did win his preferred method of counting chads. But it means he lost. Had Bush gotten his way of counting chads, Gore would have won. There's a lesson to be learned here, but nobody will learn a damn thing.
Yeah, it was the GOP. (rolls eyes) What aliberal buffoon you must be.
Why hacking by Democrats ... if Miami-Dade is safely Democratic?
Who would have incentives to hack a Democratic stronghold?
Because nobody can challenge the results that have such a wide margin. Who cares if it 70 - 30 or 80 - 20? The problem is that there are a lot of votes and that can make a difference in a statewide election.
Just look at Illinois as another example. Most of the state votes Republican, but Chicago always votes 90+% democratic to offset the Republican districts. Those can't be challenged since the margin is so wide...
Kal Albert, The fact that the story gives absolutely no information regarding the probable perpetrators, their motives, or their identities makes your post look rather by a paranoid rant by a person with more than couple of screws working their way loose.
Do you have any reason for stating it was the Democratic Party? Or are you somebody who stopped taking their medications?
An Ohio poll worker has been indicted for voting for Obama at least six times in this past election. The indictment has this worker committing voter fraud in each of the past three elections. A poll worker no less, which makes this even more egregious. This report should go a bit deeper, and announce the intended votes of this fraud scheme. That would sum up who what behind it.
Be it GOP or Dems... A few things to chew on:
1. I you do away with absentee then the Soldiers "Defenders of Freedom" will not be "free" to vote.
2. If you go ahead and allow voter ID.. you will make the voting process more secure.... I can see why the Dems don't want it.
No finger pointing, this is our problem! Nothing gets accomplished and this is what Politicians count on. We all must hold each Politician accountable to their platforms and promises.
When dems are caught cheating it is an "isolated" incident which means nothing! When the dems accuse the republicans of cheating, even if there is NO proof, it is a pattern of election fraud. Must be nice to vote in the "Fantasyland" election.... Where the democrats never lose!
If the intended votes were targeting Republicans, it would have been part of the headline from this liberal site. But the fact that no intent was even mentioned is equally as telling. It was reported, just not fully reported, which certainly supports the fact that Democrats were the targeted recipients of the fraudulent votes.
Absentee Ballots in Florida = People who own homes in Florida AND other countries and states.
Hmmm, sounds like poor people.
Think about how many states (and countries) where Mitt Romney can vote or where his sons plot to govern - most of the Romney and Bush offspring are creeping through the red states and setting up their campaigns.
Since when is voter fraud an issue of Republican or Democrat ... ?? It is an act of treason committed by criminals without regard to party. It undermines the entire representative process of the Constitution of the United States. The division on this vine of Dems/Repubs is a disgusting illustration of misguided "loyalties".
I agree, a voter id would make voting more secure, and I agree that some Democrats are irrationally opposed to it.
But, there were some legitimate objections to attempts to implement such a policy shortly before a national election.
Also, provisions for voter ids would do nothing to prevent cyber-hacking such as was attempted in Florida.
Doesn't anyone read the articles anymore?
BOTH republican and democratic districts were targeted: direct from the article "...said the fraudulent requests for ballots targeted Democratic voters in the 26th Congressional District and Republicans in Florida House districts 103 and 112."
Mothlady - voter fraud may be a felony, but it is no treason. Treason is actively working with avowed enemies of our country, for their benefit, and against our national interests.
I do agree that voter fraud is not particularly a Democratic or a Republican monopoly. Anybody who thinks that their party is immune from such moral lapses is living in a fools paradise.
Oh yes, the DA statement of the day!!!
I read it. You haven't read any shrill accusations against either party that were authored by me.
First, banning absentee ballots has to be just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Second, did you miss this part of the article?
Yeah, it makes total sense that someone from the DNC would hack Miami-Dade and get 2,500 likely Obama votes thrown out. Yeah, that's smart...
O'Keefe did no such thing. Are you talking about the Acorn nonsense?!? Cause if you are, you should know that Acorn (and it's employees) were cleared of any and all wrongdoing (i.e., no crime or fraud was committed) and O'Keefe was sued and forced to pay $100,000 to the parties he wrongfully smeared.
You mean that crap? As it would turn out (and is in no way surprising), it is O'KEEFE WHO IS THE CRIMINAL AND FRAUD.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/03/08/james-okeefe-pays-100000-to-acorn-employee-he-smeared-conservative-media-yawns/
Thank-you, DrowningGrover, for reminding people of the facts of the case.
again, total bull@!$%#.
Roger, you really need to come up with better LIES if you don't wanna continue to get laughed at on this board.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2012/11/20/the-108-ohio-obama-voter-fraud-myth-and-the-recount-petition
no thanks necessary. It literally takes about 10 seconds to look this stuff up on Google. If Roger has ANY INTEREST WHATSOEVER in dealing with facts, rather than blatant outright lies, he'd be providing these links and hiding his head in shame.
For example, google "Ohio voter fraud 2012" and the SECOND HIT is the one I linked above debunking the voter turnout lie. It's so easy, a caveman could do it (yet rightwingers can't seem to figure it out. What does that say about them?)
dman - with all respect to your opinion, the IP addresses of these attacks have been reported by this article to have originated in Ireland, England, India and other foreign countries - sounds like a concerted effort by criminals/enemies of our Constitution against our country's interest in tenants of democracy laid out by the Constitution. While I am not well versed in International Law, my personal interpretation is that this is a hostile act against our country, therefore labeled as treason.
What about the gentleman who was supposed to appear before congress on aligations of election database tampering for Ohio? Who mysteriously flew his private plane crashing it and supposedly dying days before he was to appear before congress.
Get the broom where is the rug
Numb3rTech, not a single vote for Obama? You need to check the stats before you post, dearie, because there were idiots in the NE who voted for Myth Rmoney. Fortunately, most voters there were smart enough not to, though.
WOW..... It looks like Republicans will try anything to cheat their way to victory. I can hear all the neo cons screaming now, WE DON"T CHEAT! Yeah right.
This is not a party issue...this is a legal issue, and I hope we take steps to minimize the chances of this happening in the future.
Treason only covers acts against a parent nation. For instance, if a US citizen or someone owing allegiance to our nation orchestrated this action, then it is treason. If a foreign national were responsible, it is not considered treason. It is a violation of our sovereignty, however.
Kathrine Harris, Fla Secty of State, and Jeb Bush flunky, tried to get Diebold corp voting machines as the std for electronic voting. No tape records, no printouts, no receipt for the voter, no audit trail for the Supervisor of Elections, no recount possibilities. Why in heck would Diebold build such a machine and try to sell it as a voting system ? Why in heck would anyone in the US consider buying it? Why would some noisy Repubs in the gubmint push it ? Most Repubs were silent on it. None made public stmts like: Are you kidding ?. We are about that far ___— from having elections hijacked completely. At least with paper ballots, a guy can only put a few thousand in the trunk of his car and drive around for a few weeks and then , OMG, discover he forgot to turn them in.
Big Al aka fat assssssss in vegas.
If Miami-Dade is solidly, and safely a Democratic bastion, THEN there is NO reason to chase a paltry 2500 fraudulent votes.....also, there would be no gain for the Republicans in getting a mere 2500 fraudulent votes, BUT, the Republicans could try to pull off this clumsily attempted fraud, easily caught plot,as a Democratic attempt for ( unnecessary) votes, to make the Republicans look chaste....ergo,it must have been a Republican ploy........
Cyber anything scares the hell outta me. There are hackers out there that can ruin your entire life financially.
Your entire life's information is now billions of X's & 0's floating around waiting for someone to un-encrypt them.
Once they're in, you're Fk'd.
My entire office is now paperless. If for some reason our server goes down, we're dead in the water & yes, I hate when that happens. There is no falling back to paper files anymore.
Thanks for the clarification, Pragmatic ... it will be interesting to follow the facts of this case as they develop. As for the posts along party lines, it reads as though politics in this country is written by a stadium of sports fans with single intent - one team over the other prevailing in scrimmage.
Just because it came from a particular IP address does not mean that's where it originally came from. Could be the lady sitting right next to u.
Roger - Just so you and everyone is aware. James O Keefe is a fraudster and had to pay the one guy he filmed $100,000. Why? Because the gentleman he filmed went along with it on camera, but immediately contacted authorities and even had the FBI involved about O Keefe trying to smuggle people. Of course, O Keefe just continued to pass the video off as if the guy helped him, even after he was informed that the guy did contact authorities immediately. So a court recently ordered him to pay the guy $100,000, because that poor guy still lost his job over that video, even though he did everything right. So STFU about James O Keefe already.
.cbsnews.com/2100-500690_162-4684431.html
Wouldn't let me put up URL
Clowns can fight back and forth all day over who did what and who didn't do what. We need to get our voting under control. We need to idenitfy ALL voters. If having to get ID is a too big of a chore for you then don't vote, you lazy ahole.
So THAT'S why Obama won - despite his miserable performance so far. This has been refined to a 'fine art' in Chicago, where dead people are 'resurrected' to vote on a regular basis.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
lol
I am neither surprised (that this report was generated by a situation in Florida) nor convinced (that it is the 1st time).
It maybe the 1st time that is was caught or could not be hidden as well as it was in the passed... I can believe that Hackers are cutting their teeth on Florida - no telling how screwed up those DIEBOLD machines ... they have continued to resist disclosing the defenses, Cryptology systems they use. Claiming it to be trade secrets.
But with the number of breeches "reported" against their ATM machines (or blamed on the machines by bank-sters).
No one with any sense of digital vulnerablities has already written off Diebold. And Florida ... it operates in spite of its deficeines not because it has ever seriously held any of its vendors to strict standards.
I think most of the Lousiana "Hughie Long" clan moved to Florida after they were rousted out of that corrupt pit of vipers.
Voter Id would be as safe as your social security number.
Voter Id would be validated using a central database with all voter ids.
Maybe if voters where able to validate their paper copy ballot and then hand count them.
But no matter how many layers u invoke that complexity becomes the bad guys asset.
Kiss (keep it simple stupid)
Republicons, the party of voter suppression, the party of voter fraud, the party of gerrymandering......the party of rigging the elections against the middle class, the poor, the elderly and the young.
Why do republicons hate America?....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Why do republicons block the vote to remove tax breaks from companies taking American jobs overseas?....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Republicons, the party of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ over Americans.
Complexity kills transparency
How come people with lawyers always go first in a court of law?
Pay to play!
Pick a party
George Carlin
(May 12, 1937 - June 22, 2008)
"The American Dream"
Theres a reason why education sucks and its the same reason it will never ever ever be fixed. Its never gonna get any better, dont look for it, be happy with what you got. Because the OWNERS of this country dont want that. Im talking about the real owners now. the REAL owners. The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You dont. You have no choice. You have owners. They OWN you. They own everything. They own all the important land, they own and control the corporations theyve long since bought and paid for the Senate the Congress the State Houses the City Halls they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all the news and information you get to hear. THEY GOT YOU BY THE BALLS! They spend BILLIONS of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying to get what they want. Well we KNOW what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else. But I'll tell you what they DONT want. They dont want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They dont want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. Theyre not interested in that. That doesnt help them. Thats against their interests. They dont want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly theyre getting f***ed by a system that threw them overboard thirty f***ing years ago, they dont want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly sh***ier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime, and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And NOW theyre comin' for your social security money. They want your f***ing retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it! Theyll get it all from you sooner or later because they OWN this f***ing place. Its a big club... and YOU AINT IN IT. You and I are not in the big club. By the way, its the same big club they use to beat you over the head all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted, folks. The game is rigged. And nobody seems to notice.. nobody seems to care... Good honest hard-working people. White-collar, blue-collar, it doesnt matter what color shirt you have on, good honest hard-working people continue - these people of modest means - continue to elect these rich c**k suckers who dont give a F*** about them. They dont give a F*** about you, they dont GIVE a F*** about you. They dont CARE about you. At ALL, at ALL, at ALL! Man...You know? And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care... Thats what the owners count on - the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red white and blue d**k thats being jammed up their a**holes everyday because the owners of this country know the truth... Its called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.
Try to fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... But not prove they are a citizen.
why not, here in the peoples republic of massachusetts the secretary of state has been reprimanded and sued for not getting ballots to troops overseas.
"Florida again! What a coincidence. Let's see who is behind the tampering. We can start by questioning the dirty tricks of the GOP!"
Yea, the evil GOP cause 140% of a county to vote for the Obama and the statistically impossibility of 100% showing up and 100% all voting the same way. You morons are to busy lapping up their propaganda to have one ounce of self thought.
Jim, u mean tax payer! Not citizen!
Being we all are immigrants and in some eyes most are illegal immigrants. Ask the native Americans
Difference between a love mate and marriage is a legal institutionalized document.
I would agree if u where to elegantly say "contribution to community"
But I don't think that is what u mean. I do believe u to have a racially biased foundation.
Don't hate the player hate the game.
While we are spun and spun with fingers pointed justifiably in every direction at every player the game isn't changed.
Pick a party
How can a company create a fool proof election system while their voting machines are being sold on eBay and their code is always being demanded to be transparent?
U can't
Thin line
It is probably the Mr. Obama campaign contributors trying to get something back for their donations to his campaign.
Better than showing up at the polls after a long flight.
Of course, there's a lot of jabber on here today subjecting both parties as the "culprits" in the hacking. What should be the PRIMARY concern for everyone, is that it could and probably WILL happen in the future. ALL the more reason for voting the "old way" with verifiable PAPER ballots and physically pulling voting switches in an old analog voting booth. To Hell with all of this God Damn electronic bull @!$%#. If the damn Chinese can (and do) steal our Nuclear secrets daily, then anyone can ELECTRONICALLY stuff the Ballet Boxes. To Hell with electronic voting. Voting is an American Constitutional and Civic Right and a responsibility.
That's why the left will always hide behind the "no evidence of voter fraud" because they know it is the poll workers committing the fraud and there is no policing. It's really tough to catch criminals when the criminals are policing themselves.
But the left doesn't care about votes counting, as long as they win. Their filthy politicians have brainwashed their sheepish constituents into not caring about the voting process at all.
But Liz Warren's daughter made sure to get ballots to all the welfare addicts, even though it is illegal for her to do so.
1st. let us not declare that the GOP did this without facts. I think we can agree that the Dems wouldn't want to cut 2500 votes from their tally.
2nd this could have been a dry run, in a area that it wouldn't make a difference and thus maybe not be noticed?
3rd how is a citizen of the US born here, never travelled out of the country and so has no passport supposed to prove citizenship? And saying that everyone must have some government ID. This gives me glimpses of the Soviet Union and the fact that you needed government documentation for everything. (something I would thing the GOP would be against.)
4th Everyone seems to have missed the point that the security system worked at these cyberattacks were stopped.
ok my 4 cents worth.
look like "karl Marx Rove " is at it again.
FedupwithFed
So if Miami-Dade is 100% Democratic, what do they have to gain from voting fraud? And why are we wanting to ban absentee ballots... when many of those would likely be a military vote who tend to fall towards a conservative voting demographic?
Cyberattack, Another Marco Rubio H20 in the works or is this the GOP-TP doing what they do best, very sneaky, what are these Clowns going to do next ???
@ Ridgelon
ugh. Do I have to post the SAME LINK (already provided above) debunking this nonsense? Oh, and the LIE gets bigger no less (from 108% turnout to 140% turnout. Will we hear 200% tomorrow?).
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2012/11/20/the-108-ohio-obama-voter-fraud-myth-and-the-recount-petition
I strongly disagree with this article. The first cyberattack on our election was committed in 2000 by Katherine Harris and the GOP when they purged the voter roles of legal registered Democrat voters. They used the computers to sort out certain voters in Florida and removed them from the voter roles.
I just love how immoral liberals immediately start trashing and blaming the GOP! Its just the opposite! How do you thing this idiot Obama got elected? By people voting for "it" that are illegal, that are felons, double voting, etc....why do you think liberals are so against showing a valid ID before you can vote?? The more you morons spout off your stupidity, the closer we get to stopping the destruction of my country!!
Yes Jamie, liberals are so much morons. They believe that a person actually has a right to vote without being harassed by some idiot not connected with the election board demanding proof that he has that right to vote. It's the election boards to determine that a person has the legal right to vote....not some paranoid idiot that suspects something that is not true.
Hey Larry #1.71, what a dirtbag Katherine Harris was, including Jeb Bush & Jim Baker !!!
No where in this article is this cyberattack attributed to either the GOP or DNC so you partisan idiots need to take a chill pill.
One of the Grand O'le Plutocrat bubble sheeple need to post PROOF of their accusations that Obama campaign had illegals voting for them. This is another BS story being promulgated by the morons at Faux news, by Glenn Beck, Rush Limpballs and Anne "I'm really a man" Coulter.
The "108%" voter turnout for Obama in Ohio counties is another example of the BS being tossed around by GOP/Tbaggers. This has been proven false by multiple sources and yet you Faux-bots can't let it go.
Black Panther intimidation is yet another story that has also been debunked yet you "anti-anything-Obama-does" people can't let it go.
Let me burst your bubble on a few other things...
Obama is NOT a muslim... he WAS born in Hawaii and he is not a socialist/marxist and he does not want to ban religion or take away your second amendment rights. If Obama was a socialist then corporations would not be sitting on record profits, the banks would have been nationalized, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=98frqrKFnQ8
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/11/18/Anonymous-Claims-They-Hacked-GOP-On-Election-Day
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/23/nonprofit-says-letter-from-hacker-group-corroborates-anonymous-video/
They are pushing for online voting to make it easier for us to vote. Or easier for "Them" to cheat?
But he is a Chicago politican, the most corrupt city in the country. Do you really believe that Chicago politicans, the mob and the unions haven't defrauded the vote in Chicago for decades?
Anyone that trusts any politican raised thru Chicago needs to get their head examined.
(let's not forget the fine work of James O’Keefe and Project Veritas)
You left out the fact that all of his work as you call it proved to be bogus but keep spreading those lies makes you look more the fool
But he is a Chicago politican, the most corrupt city in the country
Actually that would be New Orleans not Chicago. Obama ran on a national and a state wide venue and won both times so even if Chicago is corrupt as you dream it is there can be no relation to his winning based on one cities politics. Texas is as bad as are most southern states. Get a life troll
Way to spin what I said, troll. The fact is he is just as bad as every Chicago politician, he cares not for the people, he is concerned with himself and that is it.
When/where did I say it was the fraud in Chicago that won him the presidency? L2R
Not surprising this hacking occurred on democratic turf!
Yes, let's not - that felon belongs behind bars.
honestdebate, you would be better served with name like parrotingloon. Clearly you buy every think you are told and not quite bright enough to actually verify any of it.
People say that there is no problem with people voting in person. That even though you do not have to show ID, there are not any people voting that should not be. So obviously there is no voter fraud. How can they now say there there is voter fraud with email voting, or online voting? There is not any evidence of wide spread voter fraud with email voting or online voting. So to not allow it would be considered racist. This is one one isolated incedence. No need to change anything to make sure it is secure until you can prove that there is voter fraud. And they should not be able to put anything in place to make it so that they can detect the voter fraud either. Because if there is no voter fraud, then there is no need to put anything in place to detect it. At least that was the arguement for requiring ID.
Mothlady -The actual IP addresses used to send the requests are irrelevant. By use of a proxy server, in Ireland, England, or India, a person, or persons located right here in the U.S. might have originated this hacking attempt.
It could only be adjudged as treason if it were done at the request of a foreign government. At this point there is no clear reason to assume such a motive. It is not impossible, but it does not seem overly likely either.
Yeah, this comes out of Republican mouths again and again. In spite of that, the only verified and prosecuted cases of voter fraud and tampering have been perpetrated by... [drum roll please] Republicans and Republican supporters!
Well, if that is true, then why would Democrats try to rig the vote there? Seems to me Republicans have a lot more to gain with this! I'll bet we find Republicans behind this one too!
Miami-Dade isn't 100% Democratic. If that were so, the Miami Herald newspaper wouldn't be rabidly Republican.
Electronic voting machines need to be outlawed. Don't trust software based systems. Absentee ballots need to be confirmed. Voter rolls need to be purged of dead prior to every election. Identification to vote needs to be in place (this doesn't disenfranchise anyone that's a BS excuse). Maybe even use finger dipped in ink also. Motor voter needs to disappear. Voter rolls need to be checked against other states so people aren't voting in two states.
Exactly the first thought I had.
Any thought you ever had was planted thier by some left wing loon, they always pray on the weakest.
stop...
do you mean like Fox
newsentertainment?All of you are far too focuses chasing individual trees to consider the implication that the system can be hacked. From the very beginning it has been shown that electronic voting machines were seriously vulnerable to hacking and that the manufacturers were not taking it seriously or spending enough resources on security. Now it did happen and all you numpties can think of doing is pointing fingers at all the people least likely to have done it.
No, NBC & MSDNC.
but i thought us libs are the "weakest". lol your saying we pray on ourselves? or admitting that "you' are the weakest? which is it.
I think these republicans just hate America for it's freedom.
Nice job by MSM again. They all of you fighting over whos fault it is and who gains the most. Did any of you read MDC123 qoute from George Carlin? He sums it up in that post. It's not a R or D thing it's one big club and they have us fighting about which side is right. It's all a fake doesn't anyone see that? We need not fear each other because we have the same hopes for this counrty, liberty and freedom. Washington and these so called elected officials are the real threat to our freedom. Every year they create new laws to "protect us from ech other" but they don't have to follow the same laws. And every once in a while they turn on one of their own to show us they do follow them. The house of cards is starting to fall and we must be ready to help eac other because when it does "The Gov't" will be protecting themselves.
GOP, the party that stole the 2000 election thanks to Jeb Bush, Jim Baker and Katherine Harris !!!
And this is how an Election is Stolen Thank you Team Obama, and your countelss nameless SLAVES, payment is comming and Soon
Smells like Karl Rove.
Hmmmm... seems to me I have read this before (minus the spelling errors)... lemme think...
Oh yeah! It was just before the last presidential election!
Hahahahahahahaha!
Rove's astonishment that Obama won the election always seemed suspect. Hmm. Now it makes sense. What did he know that we did not know? My Florida roots go back for centuries. This election nonsense shames me and all of my relatives who have died in all the wars for this country.
Let us investigate this nonsense. It's past time the truth is uncovered about our elections here in Florida. Pull back the curtains and look at who stands there behind, eh? If it's Karl Rove let's ride him out of town on a rail. There's a bucket of tar in my garage. Who has chicken feathers? There's enough and to spare for Jeb Bush, too.
Im glad Im not the only one who immediately thought of the Republicans!!
That makes you dense if the GOP was the 1st thing that came to your frontal lobe.
Yeah.
Remember the in-your-face attitude of the hacktivist group, "Anonymous"?
http://www.thomhartmann.com/bigpicture/did-anonymous-save-election-karl-rove
These people saved us from the yawning jaws of fascism, when they prevented Rove and Co. from stealing another election and giving it to Romney.
Close one........
If they hadn't stepped in we'd be at war with Iran now, and headed for yet another Republican Great Depression.
I almost felt sorry for Karl Rove,.....I said almost. :o) Poor baby was in a full-blown panic.
Once the terrorists who are already in America decide to attack us again from the inside, you have nothing to worry about I guess, open the borders and let everyone in.....
Yea. Good thing the hacktivists stole the election from republicans. Typical lib- "hey, don't worry we already voted for you. No need to thank us!"
Were almost at war with North Korea now and Iran is close to a nuclear state no thanks to Anonymous or the liberal meatheads in the senate and congress. what a bunch of drone rubbish.
Roger. What you stated, open the borders and let everybody in, That is exactly what Bush and his Republican Party wanted to do. Maybe you should read a little bit before posting.
why read ANYTHING first, when the news sources put their polical spin on EVERYTHING?
Only imbiciles believe everything they read.
Roger, if only imbiciles (imbeciles) believe everything they read, that may explain your faith in the disproven James O'Keefe and the Ohio "Pants on Fire" report on ineligible voters.
The poll worker from Ohio indicted on voter fraud admitted to voting for Obama at least six times in this past election, and see's nothing wrong with doing so. Any means to an end justifies all for liberals.
Rick,
3 people in Hamilton County (Cincinnati) have been charged with voter fraud. They voted multiple times and were caught.
The Supreme Court votes for us.
Hope you are Catholic.
PS- Glad they finally caught Tagg Romney's voting machine voter fraud.
His machines changed votes for his daddy.
America's corner stone is liberty? Correct?
What happened to the masons?
We don't want lords, barons, or kings!
Charlie Chang, I am with you! I am really surprised nobody questioned Tagg's company's voting machine being placed in all the swing states!! That should have been red flagged immediately as a "conflict of interest"!! You don't put voting machines made by the company a son of a candidate owns!! Maybe that is why Mitt was so surprised he lost!
As for future elections, I think we should have uniform voting rules, times, and dates for all 50 states and the early voting should be done by mail! This would be the safest way to combat fraud and if all states had the option to early vote by mail, would eliminate long lines on election day! Not to mention, make it easier for some people (who don't have cars etc.) to vote and would save money not having to hire as many election officials. There are 3 or 4 states who only do voting by mail and you never hear of fraud there!
Anybody see Mr. Tom Delay, lately?
Why bother to vote at this point?
Quick Roger, get under the bed. The terrorist are coming---the terrorist are coming. lmao
Dgeding, because it's our constitutional right! I don't know what party you are but if you are GOP and against President Obama, he won't be running again in 2016! However, the GOP has such a nasty reputation, unless they come up with Jesus as a candidate, have a slim to nil chance of winning that one too. They will probably have to try to steal or buy the election again! The Latinos are never going to vote for them as most are poor and the GOP is not for the poor at all no matter what race they are!
Yup, must be the Republiturds! Their usual MO.
Gee, it must be great to be always right! The story had no mention of who might possibly be behind the attempted fraud. Couldn't be the libs, huh! The great Chicago political machine, "Vote early and vote often"! The believers in "card check", "Vote for us or we will do it for you"! Illinois precincts in the Kennedy election in which, overwhelmingly democratic precincts, had over 100% voter participation! And, of course, the famous "dead people" votes! I guess there is just one common thread here! It must be the Republicans cheating, huh!
There's a third option, guys. It could be foreign governments attempting to interfere with the democratic process of the only superpower on the planet. Doesn't matter your party affiliation, America loses when that happens. But the sad part is, both parties have such a thirst for power, they'd gladly welcome interference by a foreign government if it got them more power. And of course they'd return the favor with lots of foreign aide, discounted fighter jets, etc.
If the votes were targeting Republicans it would have been the story headline. The fact that nothing of intent was mentioned fits with reporting, but not fully reporting because Democrats were involved.
Rick and others,
You're trying to interpret the article by assuming bias and figuring out what the gaps mean. This is a bit like reading tea leaves. You might be right, but you're probably just seeing figments of your imagination.
I'm working from the evidence presented. Overseas IP's implicates foreign involvement. Few IP's implicates that a botnet was not utilized. (A botnet would get thousands of IP's from all over the globe.)
Offshore Ip?...Offshore accounts want no capital gains tax so they can bring in the offshore accounts tax free in America......Rich 1% Avoiding paying taxes.....Romneys major campaign theme....Hmmmmmm?
I really dont see why Democrats have an issue with this. If we don't need to verify citizenship in person, then we certainly should not care about who votes online, or how often they vote.
Hey "Ihateliberals10', when are you going to spew your vitiol. Tough word for you I know.
Lou Leid:
Use small words for these guys.......
Little Lou, how about some small letters for you like STFU little man.
Are you guys forgetting "Die-bold co." in the 2004 elections, the owner guaranteed a win for bush. lol only a party that is out of touch would even bother doing this, cause if your a good party, you do not need to steal votes.
I doubt it was the GOP more likely some bored hacker that was just doing it to see if they could. The low number of ISP's means it wasn't a real attempt by an organised group.
Hypothetically lets say Anonymous or one of its splinter groups decided to make a big show in the next national election (2016) and do to system pressure either managed to get in and change the vote or crash the system and make it impossible for real voters to use the system. What happens then? The way the current electoral college works only a handful of states actually have significant ballots for President and add to that the fact that Ohio and Florida are usually among them. Using the 2000 election as a base model Bush 41 carried the EC by a few thousand votes and that could easily be shifted by a Hacker group. Yet another reason to eliminate that archaic system.
Neither our election systems nor our energy grids should even be connectable (much less actually connected) to the internet. Voting in particular has no need to involve even a computer; they introduce far too many opportunities for intentional and accidental vote changes (even if they are air-gapped and have available source code, we cannot easily verify each computer used in the districts uses unchanged code), and Americans still know how to count punched-holes and filed bubbles by hand thankyouverymuch.
Sadly, the trend for both is toward connected-to-net. The internet of things need not and should not be the internet of all things.
There was a time when such a thing was unthinkable. Now you don't have to pay a night shift if you can give your day shift workers a laptop/cell phone to make them do the work.
Likewise we've seen a fairly simple system of voting become more complex by machines. Automated touchscreen voting machines with no audit trail and are easily tampered with. A reporting network on these machines that can easily be broken into and is connected to the internet.
If we're going to go down this road, we need to get smart fast. But I'm not holding my breath for that. Parties see too much opportunity to circumvent the will of the people.
game kid and Pragmatic-3918582 -- I agree! There are certain things that I simply do not do on the internet. Voting is one, my banking is another. I have observed that there is this continuous battle between hackers and IT security, and there are computer geniuses on both sides. It kind of reminds me of the scientific military race during the Cold War. I certainly do NOT want to be direct or collateral damage in that!
The best estimate of how this battle is going is that the hackers are winning. That's the scary part. Our IT folks usually do their best to put preventative measures into place, however their job can quickly become a clean-up job when these measures fail. We should never assume we've thought of everything. I administrer my own servers on the internet, so I know a few of the tricks employed by the hackers. I haven't had a break-in yet, but I'm small potatoes compared to any large company or government agency. Hackers would only want my machine to conceal their identity when they do compromise a large company or government agency.
Hi Pragmatic - Thank you for your reply. I have to admit that "the hackers are winning" is not what I wanted to hear, but truth is more important than comfort. It is definitely what we all NEED to hear. One of the scary things is that even though I do not do any banking on the Internet, if my bank were to be hacked, and all their info database on everyone were to be compromised, they could get a hold of my data anyway...........
Would you believe this has happened to me three times? My bank is quick to detect fraudulent activity, so I've not been on the hook for anything stolen for longer than a couple minutes, but it is sure scary.
Yes it sure is scary! One of my mom's credit cards got compromised when a big lot of several hundred thousand credit card accounts got hacked and hers was one of them. Her credit card company caught it really quick, so she was OK, but it is very scary! Our saving grace is that the IT people at banks, etc tend to catch it quickly, and most of the time, as far as I know, people aren't held liable.
Just check out Pennsylvania and Ohio Obama voter fraud all over these stats , 100 % black voter turn out --BULL !! voter fraud in these stats was huge and ended up turning a election
Got a link for that?
Sounds like a lie to me.
It is a lie.
If you can't prove it with facts, Larry, it's the usual Faux Entertainment lies and invalid.
Must be the GOP, you say, and what makes you say that when the Democratic candidate won?
This has to be the making of a Liberal democrat, because this country was doing fine until the liberal political correctness entered the political spectrum.
Liberals are still upset Al Gore lost, the big loser that he is.
Liberal way is to lie, cheat and steal ANYTHING they can.
Did you hear that on Faux news?
ummmmm, why? did fox news mention that, seeing how I don't watch fox news, the only fair and balanced station on the tube, nope, never watch it, but dang, I sure do read alot about them on these boards.
8 million dems sat out and 3 million republicans sat out so explain this?????
Faux News, the bastion of spin, innuendo, twisted facts. It's great that Glenn Beck went off of the rails. What asylum is he in. Next should go O'Reilly, probably still druck from St Patty's Day, and the the minor yobbos, Hannity, and that guy who has the hairdo of a werewolf, like that little turd from the Adams Familly. Morticia was hot!
Just to remind you idiot libs..... If Gore had won Tennessee, his home state, Florida would not have mattered! I really think that his home state had the right idea!
Roger....love fox news huh?...Simply do search on ...Fox News Dumber...and see actual studies done that show people who watch Fox news are actually dumber after watching it....True! See the actual studies!
You guys can't argue with facts so you just keep blaming Hannity and company.......
mr sailing.......I have a study that shows people are actually more lesbian and full of hate after watching MSNBC...you should check it out.
is an obvious and juvenile lie. No one believes you. What are you, 11?
Roger, you are a turd like Hate. The only way Republiturds win is by cheating.
ahhhhh yes, as my stomach turns......
I know, I know, the liberals are always doing the right thing...good grief!
you people are mindless trolls who couln't lick a stamp to mail an envelope.
Go back to bed Lou,school is delayed today...
Cause most of em are stick-ons nowadays Roger boy,.....try to keep up with technology.
That's the reason yer' stamps ain't stickin' Sonny,........
Geez,.....slow learning curve?
no the stick ons are for the mindless trolls who can't lick a stamp to mail an envelope....nice to see you understood what I was saying AND AGREED.....hahaha
Hey Rog, it seems at least u r using your real name. Very unusual for right wingnuts. Cudos to you, even though your thinking is skewed. That doesn't make you a bad person, just confused. Are you the reincarnation of Hate? A kindler gentler troll?
I am not a Republican or Democrat, I AM AN INDEPENDENT
I just call them like I see them
I have seen the liberal dems skew and screw the american people since political correctness started.
Roger,
Many Independents are Republicans who fled the party after Bush II came along. So which are you, a true Libertarian or a Republican in hiding? Btw most people call "political correctness" common courtesy.
common courtesy for political correctness....nah, that's not it!
I have been an independent voter my ENTIRE life, no need to be affilliated with a political party or religeon.
They both just pit one side against the other as they ALL lay in the same bed together,
be smart, be INDEPENDENT!
Roger,
I usually think of Independents as being intelligent truth seekers, but you've used easily provable lies in your comments to further your points. Would you list some of your favorite news sites so we can all judge your "independence"?
a credible news sourse today is just an oxymoron
they ALL cater to one poitical party or another
my sources come from within the news, that's all I can say cause if I told you more, well you know.
Roger, Got it! You have secret special believable news sources that you can't share with us because then we'd actually know what's really true. You alone can be trusted to report the facts.
Roger 521043 the democrats won in florida despite the (GOP?) hackers attempt to use overseas computers to request absentee ballots. Had you read the article without bias you would have noted that florida elections officials actually detected the voter fraud before the ballots were cast. Equating cheating with winning and asserting that democrats must have cheated because they won? Sheesh! First read, then think, then post.
Problem with that one Patricia, thinking really does not enter the equation. They are jumping at anything they can use, illogical or not, that can be flung in the faces of any sorry bastard that will listen and explain who it is part of some elaborate conspiracy between Obama, Putin, Chavez, the UN, the NWO, the Greys, and the pizza delivery guy to destroy America.
People think that the dems cheat because they have done it so many times in the past! Fool me once, shame on me! Fool me twice, fu(k you!
Crap.....my pizza is delivered by a communist.
Geez what a surprise, that Florida would or could mess up anything to do with elections. Perhaps our worst governor in the country, Rick Scott will be more than happy now to "take" some financial help from our socialist government and get to the bottom of this.....oh, sorry....he's too busy retracting everything he's said over the last four years, hoping the people of Florida will be stupid enough to vote for him again.
Amen Truman ;; I can never understand how the thief Scott was ever elected in the first place since he is and was known to commit Medicare fraud . It seems as if the Florida republicans loves the criminals in our state just look at Scotts running mate Lt. Governor resigning. Florida Republicans will vote for anyone regardless of their background.
Here's how to fix this. Actually show up on election day to vote in person.
and have your ID available to PROVE you are a registered voter and a legal citizen.
Now that would be a perfect voting system
Having worked as an election judge, let me assure you all individuals either have their ID and must present it if required. However, we're in a small town and so most of the voters are known to us.
which equates to "I will cast your vote for you my small town friend".
corruption in small towns is worst than the big cities.
voter fraud is everywhere....admit it or stay ignorant
Having voted, let me assure you that the election workers in my district NEVER as me for ID. I pull out my ID every time I go to vote and the biddies behind the desk say "no, no we don't need to see that"... Pathetic...
Roger, You must be right, because my town again voted for Michele Bachmann. That's gotta be possible only through voter fraud!
Yeah! Screw those guys overseas fighting a war for our freedom! Fly their butts back here so they can vote! The enemy will understand and totally not take our bases and weapons while we're away.
Miami-Dade County is the capitol of fraud, whether it's mortgage fraud, election fraud, medical fraud, pill mills or garage-based plastic surgery.
Miami Cubans are the biggest liars, most criminally corrupt and larcenous people on the face of the Earth, and Marco Rubio is their de-facto king. The reason that the GOP Tea Party is so hot on Rubio is that they know that only massive fraud has a chance to win them the next election, so they are hitching their wagon to those who perpetrate fraud as their proud cultural prerogative.
The most valuable axiom for the rest of the nation is: Never, ever trust a Cuban from Miami.
......just a little racist, don't ya think? Sounds a little like saying "a black guy from Chicago".
I thought you Democrats were supposed to be tolerant.
1. It's not racist, Cubans come in all colors.
2. I'm an Independent.
Everyone should just calm down. It was just the Republican Party trying to win an election that they cannot any longer win. Number one. We all know that in Florida, the Republicans are Liars, Thieves, and cheats, nothing new. Number two. The Republicans could not even win the election by trying to buy the election. Number three, Florida was Irrelavent in the last Presidential election. Number four, the head of the Republican Party in Florida is now serving time for his shenanigans. The Republican Party in Florida is probably the most crooked that there is. Look at our Governor, his company had to pay well over a billion dollar fine for stealing. Rubio is one of our Senators, google Rubio scandals, Ten pages of scandals that he is being investigated for.
I'm sure that Ohioans, Floridians, New Yorkers, etc. all went overseas (England, Ireland, India) to hijack absentee ballots. Yessireesir, that's the way to handle BLAME, as usual. All fingerpointers and blamers are hearby ordered to come up to solutions for the problems. Until then, they can just quit their whining. I get tired of the same cheese, too.
Here's a solution: Vote at the polls, in person. Bring a functional ID of some sort, even a utility bill with the address on it or a bank statement, or the your latest free, county issued ID. Absentee ballots, mailed in ballots can be indvidually checked. It will provide employment for some folks. The last I checked, absentee ballots needed a verified address to be sent to. Even if they were picked up in person and mailed back in, they should be easy to spot check.
I'm sure there are some glitches in my solution, but none that can't be worked out.
I've always been wary of computer voting and voting machines. I think there's too much room for error and corruption. Although it's time consuming and tedious work, hand counting and with cross-party verification is a solution. And again, it will provide employment, even for the short term. I doubt that we would go back to that, but it might be solution through spot-checking a variety of polling places.
But please, quit whining and spewing the sour grapes. It's too childish for voting adults.
Hand counting is also fraught with corruption, having personally worked at the polls and seen the gaping holes in the process.
A printed receipt for voters at computerized polling places is an interim partial solution. However, a law is needed to make it illegal for employers to require employees to disclose those receipts.
(c) 2013
I believe it already illegal to force a revelation, as the vote is private and secret matter. However, I would never put anything past an employer to try to force the issue.
This is how Obama stole the white house. The invaders from south america voted!!
No, he won the election because the filthy rich and the ignorant bigots they use to further their goals no longer have the number of voters to carry an election. That, and the extremely weak options continually produced by the GOP as presidential candidates do no represent the values most Americans hold.
Most Americans struggle to pay their bills, educate their children in public schools, PAY THEIR TAXES, and are concerned about the constant state of warfare this contry is engaged in and the manipulation required to enact it.
Those who live in privileged luxury, build massive fortunes through worker abuse, fight fair taxation and can afford to send their children to exclusive private schools cannot hope to connect with those who's life is a constant challenge. The election of President Obama wasn't a erroneous blip on the chart, it represents a new and hopeful paradigm.
No, Mjol, Obama won because there are too many people on the dole whose sole job is to vote - often and democrat - in places like Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Cincinatti (where one poll worker even admitted to voting more than once and several precincts had zero votes for romney with over 100% of the voters registered), Miama (141% of voters voted.
Need I go on?
Not impossible in heavily gerrymandered districts. If you look at some of these precincts in 2008, they also went 100% for Obama. And if you look at voter registration in these precincts, it is 0% republican. The result shouldn't be a shock.
That's because the conspiracy nuts can't read the website. The election board document speaks of "cards" which is the number of full pages of ballots. But it was a two page ballot. So the number of "cards" will be more than the number of registered voters and it will be exactly twice as many as the number of votes cast.
Actual voter turnout as reported by the county supervisor of elections was 69.56% of registered voters. But as I explained above, if you look at cards, you have to divide by two to get the actual number of ballots cast. 69.56% times two is 141%.
Please do. I look forward to setting you straight with actual facts. You should do your own research instead of repeating a chain email.
Dang Pragmatic... I love it when you get to do a smackdown like that... :)
Nicely done Pragmatic, unfortunately no amount of logical demonstration will ever convince the willfully ignorant.
When someone like Tammy, who gets their "facts" from Fox News and is accustomed to simply parroting what they've heard, listening to a viewpoint which might shift their opinion is akin to apostacy.
Well said, Pragmatic, well said!
"ignorant bigots".......cute......did you come up with this before or after your racist rant about Cubans above? I love it when Democrats expose their true and racist feelings.....then call other people names.
Ptagmatic :: Look at the real facts about the florida vote you claim . It was 141% but that consisted of a long, long ballot so there so there was two ballots to each voter so the count of all ballots should have been 200% .. so apparently not all the ballots were counted with the republican party in control in Florida they most likely didn't count all the Obama votes like they did in 2000.
What about the attempts they DID NOT detect?
What about the MAJOR RECENT SUCCESSFUL attempts by the Republican party to disenfranchise voters through gerrymandering and other devious schemes?
(C) 2013
Name one and provide facts. We all know that voter ID laws are to maintain the integrity of the system, so please provide a better example.
Obambi's "community organizers" using their various nefarious talents.
Put it this way
since corporate america influences the votes in our country, does it really matter who you vote for?
The government ALREADY knows the winner by what government can gain, it is US against THEM.
And after all we're only ordinary men
not Reps against Dems, We the People against corporate america.
wake up people
Corporate America backed many losing candidates in the last election, because many Americans are actually researching candidates and making informed decisions before voting.
Rog, I think u have something there.
MNPat,
Corporate America as a collective dumps money on both parties. I lean liberal, but I'm not blind to the corporate money Democrats take in. In 2012 Romney got money from the financial sector, e.g. Goldman Sachs. Obama got money from the tech sector e.g. Microsoft, Apple, and Google.
and Pragmatic don't forget that corporations actually give to BOTH parties "just in case". I used to be employed by Great American and it was well known that the Lindners contributed heavily to both republicans and democrats.. although usually heavier to republicans...
I assure you I haven't forgot. I believe in finance they call that hedging.
This hacking into a voting system in Amerika reminds me of the idea that if you see one roach, you have to assume there are thousands more that you don't see. Since 2000 when Diebold rigged the election to ensure Bush/Cheney would occupy The White House, the greedy-rich have used computers to rig elections in Amerika.
Tom Joad - you cant be serious. Its the DEMOFascist party who fights one vote one citizen rule by refutting voter ID laws, by countermeaning ANY responsible ownership and NOW this nation is in a position to here it votes itself increases, monies, etc. The worst? it affects the uneducated masses.
Tom and Stew -- our two party system is broken. As Pragmatic, Ninja Code Man have said - corporate America dumps money on both parties. Some corporations even dump money on both sides so that they have a foot in, no matter who wins. This is the big reason why I have gone independent. If we keep doing what we always did, we will keep getting what we always got.
And yet Obama and Holder are worried about verifying if someone is actually a citizen is a heinous crime. This administration keeps showing how pathetic they are with misplaced priorities.
it would not be such a problem if the GOP would stop lying, stealing, cheating
Whatever your party affiliation, I would hope that Americans want a fair, one vote per person system.
Stretching the voting period out for weeks on end is ridiculous. If you can't arrange in a 12 hour period to get to your polling station it must not be all that important to you. If you need an absentee ballot, you should have to go in person to pick it up WITH ID or request it by mail to your home address. I also see no validity in not requiring proof of ID when voting in person. We require drivers licenses or state ID's for virtually everything else - you just can't convince me that having to get an ID is an onerous task and again, if voting is important to you, you will make the effort. If it's not worth your effort, you probably shouldn't be voting anyway.
Most of this talk of "disenfranchisement" at the ballot box is a cover for people to find a way to scam the system.