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Subscribe to RSSWhat should be the response if Syria deploys chemical weapons? Channel 4's Jonathan Miller reports.
Prospects for a quick conclusion to a U.N. investigation of a possible chemical weapons attack in Syria will depend on cooperation from the warring parties and safety for investigators — problematic conditions in the chaos of the country's civil war, an expert on weapons control told NBC News on Thursday.
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said Thursday that he had agreed to conduct an investigation of allegations of an attack in the northern city of Aleppo. The government and the opposition have accused each other of carrying out that attack on Tuesday.
Ralf Trapp, a German who works on disarmament and non-proliferation issues, specializing on chemical and biological weapons, said the first job of an inspection team would be safely getting to and operating at the site. He said then -- if the Syrian parties cooperated and the inspectors felt safe — they would:
- Interview victims and bystanders on what they felt, smelled, saw, etc.
- Search for remnants of any weapons used. That is often difficult and unproductive, but the earlier one gets to the scene, the better.
- Take samples at the site. Pieces of weapons are rarely found, Trapp said, but the chemical agent can be uncovered in soil, plants and, if in an urban environment, bricks and building materials. Beyond the agent, inspectors will look for chemicals left behind as the agents themselves deteriorate.
- Conduct medical tests on the victims, including taking tissue samples, blood samples and, if the teams arrive quickly enough, urine samples. Samples in some cases can be analyzed on the scene, but if the inspections are delayed, there are labs in Europe and the U.S. that can find evidence in DNA and proteins.
Trapp said a big question will be how soon the UN and the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons – of which Trapp is a former official -- can get a team into Aleppo. He said the team would have to be large and varied, with security officers and medical officers as well as inspectors.
But each day lost will influence the speed with which the investigation can be concluded, he said, because as more time elapses before biological sampling occurs, more sophisticated DNA and other toxicological testing is required.
With optimum cooperation and conditions on the ground, an investigation led by the OPCW could be under way in days, Trapp said. A determination, including the pinpointing of the agent, could be made within days after arrival, he said -- if there is good access to interviews and environmental and biological samples. He said his former organization has equipment at the ready and could move quickly.
But if the inspection is conducted by the kind of UN group that investigated the allegations against Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War, with countries nominating experts and then gathering them, getting inspectors in could take weeks, he said.
Considering that Aleppo is a war zone, optimum conditions are unlikely.
Trapp would not speculate on what agents were used, but he said that he has seen no reports of blistering, and without blistering, it is unlikely to have been mustard gas — although he said it’s possible that some victims might have only internal blistering.
Evidence of a nerve gas attack, for example, would be found in corpses. Victims would show certain telltale signs, like tiny pupils, saliva around the noses and eyes. There might be evidence of convulsions.
He did not dismiss the use of more common agents that are not on the proscribed list of chemical weapons. Victims said they smelled chlorine, and those felled in the attacks reported suffocating. Chlorine, of course, is found throughout the industrial world and in large quantities can kill. Moreover, feelings of suffocation could be associated with a chlorine attack.
The chemical has a long history of use. It was the first chemical used as a weapon in World War I by German troops against French and French colonial forces. There are reports that insurgents in Iraq used chlorine in huge quantities in their attacks.
Similarly, tear gas, if used in large quantities in a confined space, can suffocate and kill.
Trapp was careful to note that even though chlorine or tear gas are not listed as prohibited weapons on the Chemical Weapons Convention, each could be considered a chemical weapon if used as a "method of warfare" rather than as being used for law enforcement or crowd control. The convention bars the use of chemicals in general as a "method of warfare."
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George Ourfalian / Reuters
Residents and medics transport a Syrian Army soldier, injured in what they said was a chemical weapon attack near Aleppo, to a hospital on March 19. Syria's government and rebels accused each other of firing a rocket loaded with chemical agents outside the northern city of Aleppo on Tuesday.
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Who cares? It's their fight, not ours. We need to quit sticking our nose in business that doesn't concern us. Now, if they were to use those chemical weapons on U.S. soil or harm American citizens with them, then it's in our court. We gotta stop trying to be the worlds policemen, especially in and toward countries that hate us. Namely the Muslim/Islamic countries. If they want to wipe each other or themselves out, more power to them, hope they succeed.
Anyway, it's probably the FSA doing it to their own people and blaming the SAA. The FSA is no better then that which they proclaim to despise! What's worse is that they want to turn Syria into another Islamic theocracy, just like Iran. Thinking of having two Irans gives me great " joy joy " feelings. Makes me want to go fart rainbows..........:(
a white house spokesman has just stated that the chemicals used were not the banned ones !
I thought ALL chemical weapons use was illegal.. why the splitting hairs, obama stated it was a "red line" that Syria better not cross and now that they have the WH is backtracking and making excuses not to take action !
This weakness is what started the whole 9/11 in the first place, Bin laden communicated the reason he decided to attack was after we cut and run in Somalia "that we had no heart in staying the course"
The United Nations, as slow as it is in these matters, will probably get information on this issue quicker than Mr. "Drama" Obama and his Progressive surrogates providing the American people the Benghazi TRUTH.
Have you considered the possibility that they never wanted our "assistance" in the first place? That we were the foreign invaders and imperialists imposing our will upon them through war? That they hate us because we are so arrogant as to think that our way of life is the only legitimate way of life on planet earth, and that no other ways of life have any right to exist? That they hate us because some of us "hope that they wipe themselves out"? I wonder, how would you feel if Chinese troops came marching through your town, telling you and your fellow citizens that it is time to adopt "the superior" Chinese government, Chinese culture, and Chinese values, or else face perpetual foreign occupation and endless war in your neighborhood? You wouldn't like it, would you? But it's okay if we Americans do it to them, right? Because they "need our help" and our way of life is "superior" to theirs, right?
"We have seen the enemy, and the enemy is us."
Well RL, as you are aware, chemical munitions in any amount can cause devastation and utter chaos. One only need to look at the Tokyo Subway attack to see the chaos that ensued from that. It is also well known and accepted that there are "terrorist" elements engaged in Syria, the same Islamic Extremists that embrace jihadist views, but are just crazy enough to engage in things like suicide bombings, mass casualty type stuff. It should most certainly concern us with these types of weapons.
Having served in theatre, having been thoroughly trained in NBC weapons, and more than acutely aware of the ease in which some of these agents can be manufactured, with little to no specialized equipment, and if your moniker is indicative of military service, I only need to remind you of your chem warfare training, the videos associated with that training, and the miniscule amounts of those chemical agents that were used in demonstration of what those agents are capable of. While I agree, Syria's civil war is NOT OUR FIGHT, we still need to be prudent when it comes to protecting our interests (and I am not talking about bases or planes or material things - but our troops) abroad.
I do recollect not so long ago the discussion and planning for an aerial type chemical dispersion attack within our country. I certainly recall the chaos white powder being mailed to government buildings caused. I certainly would not like to see a repeat of that on a similar or larger scale. As always, those who refuse to stay alert, refuse to take an active role in their best interests, are often the ones that end up being bent over, and their asses used as a bike rack. I for one, refuse to be a bike rack...
Hello folks, there is a lot more going on in Syria than the MSM presstitutes are allowed to report. There are oil pipe lines in the equation amongst other Geo-political factors. Enclosed are two excerpts and two URL’s to two of many articles that outlines these extenuating circumstances. It’s not about democracy or human rights folks it’s about money, power and greed.
Syria, Turkey, Israel and a Greater Middle East Energy War
by F. William Engdahl
“NATO is already clandestinely engaged in the Syrian conflict, with Turkey taking the lead as U.S. proxy. Ankara’s foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, has openly admitted that his country is prepared to invade as soon as there is agreement among the Western allies to do so.
The intervention would be based on humanitarian principles, to defend the civilian population based on the “responsibility to protect” doctrine that was invoked to justify Libya. Turkish sources suggest that intervention would start with creation of a buffer zone along the Turkish-Syrian border and then be expanded. Aleppo, Syria’s largest and most cosmopolitan city, would be the crown jewel targeted by liberation forces.”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/11/225863/
A tale of two security headquarters
The Syrian Intelligence War
by Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya
There is much more to the conflict in Syria than meets the eye. Syria is currently the scene of a cold war between the US, NATO, Israel, and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) on one side and Russia, China, Iran, and the Resistance Bloc on the other hand. Amidst the fighting between the Syrian government and anti-government forces, an intense intelligence war has also been taking place.
Voltaire Network| Ottawa (Canada)| 1 August 2012
http://www.voltairenet.org/article175218.html
It's such a hurdle to investigate because the world powers are dumb founded it happen. The world powers are in the shadows of the Russians. They are frighten of the Russians response.
h4abworld,
"They are frighten of the Russians response."
Only the Russians have also said they are also opposed to Syria using chemical weapons. What they would do about it, though, remains to be seen.
@hr: Well, they shouldn't be afraid of a Russian response because Russia will respond only with words.
Exactly, because a Russian response to Syria would be as sincere and effective as a Chinese response to North Korea. Like the latter pair, the former are buddy despots who seek only to keep appearances of impartiality and international-law compliance (if even that): any action Putin's government would take against Assad's would be both as vocal as possible and as token as possible.
Oh no, not ANOTHER WMD!
We aint' paying for this, do you hear "Other People's Money" Politicians?
Oh, here we go again. "WMD" in Syria? I can see Dick Cheney & Condi lining up outside the Fox studio. "Hey, I know where all those WMD are now!" Cheney says. "That's right, Dick," interjects Condi, "they hid them all in Syria!"
Ask the Saudi Royals who gave al Qaeda in Syria the chemical weapons, which killed innocent people - seems the Saudis have a monopoly on Terrorism (ie Osama bin Laden).
Reminds me of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, as well as the so-called 'weapons of mass destruction' in Iraq. Smacks of a phoney charge to be used by yet another government administration to get us into yet another war which can't be won.
Chlorine based chemical weapons are used by insurgents. They used them in the Iraq wars. Chlorine weapons disperse quickly making them only affect the immediate area. Unfortunately chlorine is an easy chemical to get your hands on.
Everybody knows it was the terrorists who are fighting against the Syrian government.
These same terrorists toppled the Libyan regime and are now smuggling their chemical weapons through Turkey.
Seems to me that it is possible that the rebels did it to try to get the rest of the world to escalate. If the Syrian gov't did it I would expect a widespread use as opposed to a single incident.
Also it could have been accidental.
(If it actually happened).
Just my thoughts please don't jump all over me.
Take care,
Jonnotjon
I agree. Chlorine based chemical weapons can be made in your back yard. Attach it to one of those crappy rockets the Hamas use and presto. You got a budget chemical weapon.
What I'm worried about is these rebels getting a hold of a real chemical weapon and trying to pass that off as a Loyalist Syrian Army attack.
Ohhhhhhhh!!!! So THAT'S where our president's Iraqi namesake sent them!! So.......they were in Iraq, then they were moved.......